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Nof Nof
Incertae Sedis
6
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Posted - 2015.03.24 17:52:03 -
[91] - Quote
I agree with your point. You should be allowed to do what you want for your sub money. The problem is when people like veers complain about being Ganked when that is what other players want to do with their subscription and then come.up with all these hell fire and brimstone excuses how them losing a ship somehow ruins eve. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
126
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Posted - 2015.03.24 18:21:32 -
[92] - Quote
Akianavas is one of the noob training systems. I didn't know that when I first moved there, I went there for the population. I didn't yet know much about pvp.
It had a LOT of people online all the time. There were always people outside station baiting and fighting. You could find solo and small team fights all the time.
I have killed noobs too, but after a while they were my noobs and I always felt a sense of duty to them. I replaced a lot of ships and taught a lot. I made loads of friends.
I worked really hard to make it unpleasant to mistreat my noobs.
One day I found a macharial and tenge outside baiting. Naturally, I took the bait and popped the macharial. He dropped 2.3 billion, if I remember correctly.
I snagged all of it, but the tenge was still working on me.
Unsolicited, I had 7 rep boats turn up to save me. From local corps. I knew them all, but none of them owed me anything. They were just locals.
The one public award you can see on my character was awarded when my corp mates found out I split the loot 8 even ways to take care of those guys.
High sec pvp'ers in noob systems isn't what carebears make it out to be. I think I enriched the Akianavas experience for most players. I want those old rules back.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1569
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Posted - 2015.03.24 18:42:52 -
[93] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Your opinion is irrelevant, as its overruled by CCP facts. Deal with it. can i use this quote for Kaagarous? He would love you for this
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:01:39 -
[94] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. Getting curbstomped gives you a sense of direction, either you want to do that too or you want revenge.
Or you want to learn how to avoid it in the future. Any of those are good options and create interest in the game. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:02:28 -
[95] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. Getting curbstomped gives you a sense of direction, either you want to do that too or you want revenge. Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
That would make you the >1% CCP mentioned. Which means no one cares or should care. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:03:24 -
[96] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
Except for the part where being curbstomped gives people a much higher retention rate. Clearly, highsec needs to be much, much less safe. No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit."
Again that would make them the >1% and as such no one cares. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:23:32 -
[97] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit."
Apparently this has been available from all good Concord LP stores for some time. Why did nobody tell me?
Who made that? I want to thank directly. Also sad face I can only give one like. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1018
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:30:36 -
[98] - Quote
Nof Nof wrote:I agree with your point. You should be allowed to do what you want for your sub money. The problem is when people like veers complain about being Ganked when that is what other players want to do with their subscription and then come.up with all these hell fire and brimstone excuses how them losing a ship somehow ruins eve.
That's a problem with NPE and player awareness of the nature of Eve, not HS economics. (In his case it's specifically HS incursions, which I think are a bit OP income wise) I myself make all my money in HS and looking at my killboard should make it pretty obvious I'm not risk adverse or a coward (though I am a bit sporadic in activity level).
tl;dr Veers says a lot of things, backs up none of them with evidence, and refuses to acknowledge the validity of any point that disagrees with him. He's blind to the nature of Eve and it's players and won't listen to reason. Most HS dwellers are not like him. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
220
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:47:48 -
[99] - Quote
Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward.
Yes. Yes it does.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
131
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:58:02 -
[100] - Quote
Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
738
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:05:59 -
[101] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit." the people whose noob corp gets wardecced by marmite are more likely to die, and hence more likely to stay
i look forward to your next rephrasing of "damn the data, fire is wet" |
Lorelei Ierendi
We Care A Lot
150
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:15:43 -
[102] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please.
1) I really enjoy flying transports and fulfilling contracts.... moving stuff around. I liked that in Elite back then.... and I like that here and now. It is an extra kick knowing that the contracts I am fulfilling are contracts made by actual players that are paying to have stuff moved!
2) Exploring is fun, wherever it is.
Just two examples?? Please. Just because I have fun doing stuff that you don't enjoy... we should be embracing the differences between us.
It could also be that successfully avoiding a gate camp in uedama also contributes to my fun... without needing me to be attacking or blowing up other people.
http://hisec-carebear.blogspot.de/
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1019
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:17:19 -
[103] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please.
Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie? |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
221
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:24:44 -
[104] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please. Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie?
I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1570
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:11:16 -
[105] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please. Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie? I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly. CODE. and marmites won't agree with you
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1020
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:26:34 -
[106] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please. Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie? I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly. CODE. and marmites won't agree with you
We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
221
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:46:47 -
[107] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote: We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space.
Exactly. If Hi Seccers weren't so cowardly in the first place, you wouldn't have to be there in Hi Sec ganking them to get content. Don't get me wrong, ganking is fun and educational, I whole heartedly approve, just that's it's not exactly risky.
We all know CODE. is full of elite pvpers, which is why ill be betting on them during the alliance tournament. Oh wait.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2143
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Posted - 2015.03.24 23:16:10 -
[108] - Quote
Killing Ventures for example in PF- is much higher risk 1337 pvp of course
https://zkillboard.com/character/92717906/group/463/
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1029
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Posted - 2015.03.25 00:05:41 -
[109] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote: We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space.
Exactly. If Hi Seccers weren't so cowardly in the first place, you wouldn't have to be there in Hi Sec ganking them to get content. Don't get me wrong, ganking is fun and educational, I whole heartedly approve, just that's it's not exactly risky. We all know CODE. is full of elite pvpers, which is why ill be betting on them during the alliance tournament. Oh wait.
War decing in HS can be pretty risky, you never know what your enemies are going to pull out of their hats if they're clever. More though, it's about the hunt, the stalking your prey. Watching and waiting for your moment to strike.
Kinda like killing miners in null and lowsec!
(I wholeheartedly approve) |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1572
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 00:27:18 -
[110] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:March rabbit wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:
Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie?
I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly. CODE. and marmites won't agree with you We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space. noone can check that you have alts in WH/low/0.0... so i don't take. Sorry
and having fun means nothing when you talk about 'cowardity'
Not that i care anyway
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Nof Nof
Incertae Sedis
9
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Posted - 2015.03.25 01:57:01 -
[111] - Quote
Let me rephrase:
Sitting around all day mining in HS, Running Missions, etc should be rewarded on a more realistic level. My comments are pointed at the groups that think the sole purpose of eve is to "grind isk" in the "safety" of hi sec.
The funny thing is.... if they want to be wealthy like they say they would come out to a wormhole, make the most insane isk in the game, and rarely have to deal with the war decs as most WH groups have worked around the HS war dec thing and have non affiliated freighter alts.
But.... Lets sit in the safety net of hi sec and whine to ccp that we cant play a mining game. Hi sec ganking and marmites are good for the game because they encourage players to expand their horizons.
I myself :
I had a corp awoxed 4 months in to the game by a code rep who destroyed everything. Our entire high sec mining corp fell in to shambles. I decided to move on to a Null Sec alliance and after that got in to wormholes. That awox and my ships getting killed were the most liberating experience in eve. I enjoy the game much more, have made tons of isk, and have even had the unfortunate situation of being evicted and lost billions.
No worries cause the game is fun and it didnt cause me to quit, instead we regrouped, changed plans, and I am having more fun than I ever have.
If it wasnt for a code awox I would have quit long ago. WHen it comes to groups like marmites I was once wardecced by them and chose to engage them on a gate with a terribad fit. I lost but I was convod, sent a better ship fit, and given combat tips. How many more out there had my experience? IT sure seems a lot better than sitting next to another AFK ship in a belt mining veldspar for 30 million an hour (if your'e lucky).
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
132
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:34:10 -
[112] - Quote
I frequently see null and lowsec players accuse high sec players of being unskilled or cowards.
I am writing this to try to bridge the gap. I have no animosity towards low or null players. I've met guys with great skill who play in both areas. However, from what I've seen, the high sec crowd is not substantially outclassed.
Great players are great players... regardless of where the engagement takes place.
For me, I believe the quality of the player is based on the individual's command of maneuver and damage mechanics. Individuals who understand engagements make good builds and use them correctly. They make the most of every situation, no matter how bad the odds.
Regardless of where they play (low, null, or high), I think the quality of a player is dictated by skill alone... and players in all areas have it.
The cowardice piece is even more foreign to me. Cowardice implies risk aversion.
For me, it's not that I'm risk averse. Quite the opposite. I am a true solo player (no multibox).
I like taking a lot of risk when I play and seeing if I can beat the odds. I generally play with cheap ships that are pretty easily replaceable.
A few vignettes to counter the idea that I'm risk averse (I can post KM's to substantiate this): -I was ranked as mighty mouse on Battleclinic before they came up with the strange new interface, with about 15 solo cruiser kills with a T1 frigate. -I've got a Rokh kill with a Hawk (shot it with Rokhets) -I once killed a cormorant and thorax at the same time with a griffin. (crap builds... but I didn't know that when the fight started... and the thorax player was as old as I was). My ass was on fire by the time that was over. -Early on in the Orphanage (before it go so many people), the 10+ war decs on major null alliances produced some "touch and go" fights. If I'm that bad, you would think I would have been averse to fighting 10+ major null alliances. -I spent a substantial portion of 2012 stealing everything I could find in a battle badger... and if you look at some of the ships I picked fights with in a badger you wouldn't call me risk averse. -I can post a fight in Osvestmunur in which" Nolimitsoldier" and I took down ~17 opponents in all sized ships with just the two of us (approx. 25 in the enemy fleet).
If I was risk averse, I would not have tried to do these things. If you look at my ship losses you will probably conclude that I don't play to keep ships and, possibly, that my problem is risk affinity or just poor judgement.
Ultimately, I play to have fun and I never degrade or disrespect my opponents.
Hopefully you can conclude that cowardice isn't my problem. With the cheap imaginary ships I fly, who would even care to lose them.
My old corp mates used to accuse me of welfare warfare.
So why don't I play in low? I tried. If for no other reason than to get more respect, I'd love to do it.
I think playing in low is like hanging out at the pool at a Motel 6. You most likely won't see anyone else there. If you do, violence is likely. But most days, it's just you in a crappy location with nothing to do.
I also hate the fact that you can't aggress on gates in low (or the gate guns turn you into a puff of confetti).
Also, I don't multibox. If I get a -10 sec status, then I'm stuck at the Motel 6. I don't like that idea.
Why don't I play in null? - I'm trying it for the 5th time now. Honestly, it makes high sec look like a Rambo movie. The ultimate problem, though, is inconvenience.
1) I have never tried non-alliance null. However, I don't know how that would work unless I became so good I never lost a ship again. I would love to know how people do it. Where do you keep your stuff? How do you get modules... and ammo? 2) I think null is like high sec, except with 10x the rules. In fact, I would say I have less rules in real life than in null. Every time I go down I get pummeled with bureaucratic rules and bad leadership. Deep null politics are a major turn-off for me. 2) Also, every time I go to null, I spend 14 hours trying to find parts to fit out a ship. When I'm done, I've spent half a billion isk to build a half heavy missile/half cruise, armor rep raven with 3 empty mid slots, a tractor beam, and a civilian mining laser.
Not to disparage null players, but their rank and file is no more expert in builds than the equivalent player in high sec.
I play in high because I don't need anyone to tell me what to do. I get to decide who I want to shoot and who I don't. I can say whatever I want in local. I can fly whatever I want whenever I want.
If I don't like someone enough, I can just declare war on him.
But more than anything, I just want to be able to get ships when I want to. Low and null are just inconvenient. I have to subordinate my playtime to a logistics system.
I just don't see the benefit. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:36:19 -
[113] - Quote
Wait until a gang of 20 battle ventures from General Tso's alliance wipes you off the field...
God that was humiliating.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:38:16 -
[114] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote: -I've got a Rokh kill with a Hawk (shot it with Rokhets)
I threw up in my brain.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:40:05 -
[115] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
Except for the part where being curbstomped gives people a much higher retention rate. Clearly, highsec needs to be much, much less safe. No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit." Again that would make them the >1% and as such no one cares.
New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:42:43 -
[116] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you.
Nevermind. We know.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:43:56 -
[117] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Nof Nof wrote:I agree with your point. You should be allowed to do what you want for your sub money. The problem is when people like veers complain about being Ganked when that is what other players want to do with their subscription and then come.up with all these hell fire and brimstone excuses how them losing a ship somehow ruins eve. That's a problem with NPE and player awareness of the nature of Eve, not HS economics. (In his case it's specifically HS incursions, which I think are a bit OP income wise) I myself make all my money in HS and looking at my killboard should make it pretty obvious I'm not risk adverse or a coward (though I am a bit sporadic in activity level). tl;dr Veers says a lot of things, backs up none of them with evidence, and refuses to acknowledge the validity of any point that disagrees with him. He's blind to the nature of Eve and it's players and won't listen to reason. Most HS dwellers are not like him.
No Veers just doesn't buy into your delusional rhetoric that chasing people into npc corps and making highsec socially isolated and boring is somehow good for the game. Good for some lame giggles - sure...good for actually fostering multiplayer play? No way, Jose. But as a smart man once said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:44:42 -
[118] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you. Nevermind. We know.
Another typical contribution to the high level of discourse on the eve forums - keep up the good work. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:48:07 -
[119] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you. Nevermind. We know. Another typical contribution to the high level of discourse on the eve forums - keep up the good work.
I try, but it grows increasingly difficult to keep up with the horrid mess that spews forth from your keyboard. I can only do so much to keep up.
Stop trying to kill my game.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:55:48 -
[120] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you. Nevermind. We know. Another typical contribution to the high level of discourse on the eve forums - keep up the good work. I try, but it grows increasingly difficult to keep up with the horrid mess that spews forth from your keyboard. I can only do so much to keep up. Stop trying to kill my game.
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec. |
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