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Masakari
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.22 20:03:57 -
[1] - Quote
So I was watching Fanfest, and as a returning player going through the NPE system once again - it's just how I play I always start over to see the changes in whatever game I play - my suggestion to team unicorn for an NPE change is going to generate nothing but hate, but maybe you guys will actually read it and get to thinking about another of those "legacy" systems. It's simple and of course has certainly been suggested before as there's no such thing as a new idea - so a +1 to whoever said it first:
Fix low level missions. Use a very simple approach. Make it so that a level one or two is just as profitable as it's level three or four counterpart with time required as the only factor of difference. Oh it'll still be more profitable to do the higher levels because of the loot differences, but it's about getting the newbros some money to play with so they aren't forced into mining away their early days.
As Rise said, get them into combat faster, and give them real rewards to see while they're waiting the two days for frigate level four to train. As the current tutorial actually suggests they do about 10 minutes into the game btw - wow.
Example: Level 1 Mission "Blah Blah Blah" Pays out 22,000 ISK and requires on average 5 minutes Level 4 Mission "Blah Blah Blah 4.0" Pays out 550,000 ISK and requires on average 20 minutes
After the change the level one now pays out 137,500 ISK as it takes a fourth of the time. And of course modify the payouts for their counterparts in lowsec and null to be more profitable in turn (like x3 and x5 respectively or whatever). This has two benefits:
1. From day one the players are making real money despite their skill training, which is important because you can't look at skill training as "leveling" up as there is no end game in EVE. This has to be made clear to traditional MMO players. Cause if it's not they won't play for very long cause after a week in like WoW they'd be like level thirty, while in EVE if we try to break down the skill tree in levels they'd be like level two. What's the end game? Sitting in a Titan? Don't be ridiculous. That's a prison sentence not a reward for making it to the top of the skill heap.
So why are you pretending there are levels? You're also pretending level threes or fours are harder or riskier, when they aren't, they just require more skill points and bigger ships. The mission level system is less about difficulty and more about ship size really. Level 1 = frigates, level 2 = destroyers & cruisers, level three = cruisers & battlecruisers, level four = battlecruisers & battleships.
There's no more risk in taking a properly fit ship into a level four than a rookie ship taking on a level one. So why is the payout different? It's all risk and reward right? The risk is the same, the reward should be the same.
2. It will also allow the players who enjoy running around in frigates, destroyers, or whatever to make some money without automatically forcing them into HAC's, battlecruisers, and battleships. While you can run a level four in a frigate (if you have the patience) it's not really profitable versus doing it in even a junk battleship. Just like doing a level one in a marauder even with the change won't be profitable. Will it allow higher skilled players to farm? Sure, but you think they aren't already? You think it's hard to make money in EVE for anyone but the new player? Really?
I'd also re-evaluate missions in general and alter the cash payouts to reflect time required more. Some of these missions are lengthy runs for like no money.
Oh I know this will never happen, but in my mind if you don't try to fix something or at least offer your opinion, then you've got no right to complain that it never changes. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9140
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Posted - 2015.03.22 20:21:37 -
[2] - Quote
The profits aren't in the loot, it's the lp , if I get the same lp in a l3 as a l4 then I will just rip through 30 or 40 l3's in my legion and make incursion level profits.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
83
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Posted - 2015.03.23 05:50:16 -
[3] - Quote
Masakari wrote:it's about getting the newbros some money to play with so they aren't forced into mining away their early days Nobody has ever been forced to mine in their early days. L1 missions are quite profitable, a few million ISK per hour, and there are plenty of other options for newbies such as highsec anomalies and belt ratting. You may not think it's a lot of ISK, but for them it's quite enough. Those who are mining in their first days are not doing it because they have to, but because they did it in the tutorial and wanted to try doing it "for real". And they're not making as much money as the newbies who went right to L1 missions.
Frankly, I don't think you remember what it's like to be new at the game. It takes the first few days just to figure out how to move around and communicate, to try out different modules on your ships and learn where to go to find a good market or a good agent. You cannot shorten the learning curve so much that people are going to be "min-maxing" in their very first day.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23321
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Posted - 2015.03.23 06:24:59 -
[4] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:The profits aren't in the loot, it's the lp , if I get the same lp in a l3 as a l4 then I will just rip through 30 or 40 l3's in my legion and make incursion level profits.
Agreed, bounties, mission rewards and loot become pretty much irrelevant if you're blitzing missions. I abandon and bookmark the wrecks then leave the bookmarks in a can at the nearest gate for somebody else to clean up after me, unless of course it's something I know is worthwhile looting.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
444
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:21:14 -
[5] - Quote
Masakari wrote:
There's no more risk in taking a properly fit ship into a level four than a rookie ship taking on a level one. So why is the payout different? It's all risk and reward right? The risk is the same, the reward should be the same.
I'm not sure you understand risk. This game is very much modeled after to corporate structure. In the business world when you talk about levels of risk you are speaking in value of capital and assets involved or at least capital and assets which have the potential to be lost or devalued either by use or passing of time. Potential costs associated with legal liability also are considered but there are no lawyers in eve nor lawsuits so I'll leave that out of this.
So you'd have to explain to me how risking a 2 Billion+ isk level four mission Marauder is equivalent risk to flying a free rookie ship.
Another thing that you are not considering is that while you can do pretty much anything as a brand new player what your skill points get you is options and increased power so a one year old player in a T2 frig will run level 1s much faster than a day old pilot in a rookie ship. So if you want to balance around average time taken then average for who and in what ship? If you balance it around the day old character you will break missions and everyone will speed run level 1s if you balance it around the year old player in the T2 ship then it will be pretty close to how things are now.
Also if you are looting and salvaging missions you are making less isk than if you blitz them. So your example of making the loot worth more is kind of pointless as taking time to loot is a loss of isk to begin with.
As far as level 4's being the most isk per hour currently for most people they are not. The last time that I or anyone that I know or have read about this concept was before the tiericide which brought changes to almost all ships and ship classes so it's dated info but I can tell you that back then Unless you were in a deadspace fit faction battleship with all level 5 skills for that ship then you were better off running level 3s as far as isk per hour goes.
Once you can fly a cruiser decently you are only a few days away from flying a Battlecruiser decently. A brand new player has a lot to learn in the first week of play. By the end of that week he has enough skill points to do a lot more things which means more learning. I honestly think this game is very well balanced from a standpoint of giving you skill points at a rate that roughly matches your ability to make use of those skill points. I think the problem that you are experiencing is because you are a returning player in a new character. The NPE is designed for new players not new characters. If you are having issues with your game knowledge exceeding your skill points don't blame that on CCP. Your are the one that decided to start over so take all that goes with that and quit blaming the game for your decisions. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
6026
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:25:36 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah, buffing missions which can be done In free ships will surely not be exploited by veterans...
Oh wait.
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2015.03.23 21:06:25 -
[7] - Quote
Why are you focusing on ISK/hour in the first place? Make enough that you have a buffer to cover losses, then go blow stuff up/get blown up. Have fun. ISK/hour-ing is a job, not a game. |
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.24 09:13:04 -
[8] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Why are you focusing on ISK/hour in the first place? Make enough that you have a buffer to cover losses, then go blow stuff up/get blown up. Have fun. ISK/hour-ing is a job, not a game.
Exactly. Stop posting "give me more ISK" please. Add more fun, not ISK. More celestials objects in low sec, something that will give you sence, that you are in more interesting place, than high sec. Not due to ISK, but due to game story, nice views etc... |
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