Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
|
CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3751
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 11:57:04 -
[1] - Quote
Hello people,
We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog.
This particular thread is going to be around the mooring and docking features tied with those new structures.
- Mooring is intended for the largest ships (supercapitals and maybe capitals) to be safely stored around those new structures. As long as they are within a specific radius of the structure, they would be invulnerable and could not be bumped. They would otherwise not be able to interact with their surroundings or other ships on the field as long as they would be protected. This is meant as a replacement for Starbase forcefield which currently has a certain number of issues.
- Docking is intended for smaller ships to be able to get inside the structure and be safe from direct assault (just like in NPC stations)
We are aware mooring presents a lot of discussion points, some of which were expressed during the Fanfest structure round table:
- Having (super)capitals visible from space, even if invulnerable to direct assault, is going a huge intelligence boost to opposing forces.
- Having (super)capitals traceable in such a manner could allow third parties to ambush (super)capital pilots as soon as they remove moorings to destroy the ships before they can escape.
- Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.
We are considering various ways of solving the points listed above, like giving some "buffer time" when pilots moor and remove moorings to give them time to react by either jumping / warping away or aligning to another structure with available mooring capability. |
|
Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
61
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:03:52 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello people, We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog. This particular thread is going to be around the mooring and docking features tied with those new structures.
- Mooring is intended for the largest ships (supercapitals and maybe capitals) to be safely stored around those new structures. As long as they are within a specific radius of the structure, they would be invulnerable and could not be bumped. They would otherwise not be able to interact with their surroundings or other ships on the field as long as they would be protected. This is meant as a replacement for Starbase forcefield which currently has a certain number of issues.
So, are we going to get assignable fighters again once this comes in? |
Enta en Bauldry
EVE University Ivy League
16
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:05:20 -
[3] - Quote
In W-Space, intel is gathered by d-scanning and looking on-grid (at POSes) to see if any players are active and what kind of ships they're in.
Do you intend to permit docking in W-Space? This would make intel gathering much harder unless mechanics are put in place to see what the docked players are doing. This is my biggest concern with the proposed "anchor any structure anywhere" philosophy you outlined at the fanfest presentation. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1489
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Is the idea of a supercapital ship deploying its own moorable structure for personal use something you anticipated? Would you be able to do this during a fight?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Ulrik Elristan
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:24:32 -
[5] - Quote
As a regular scout in w-space, I can only emphasize again Enta's point : removing this huge intel tool will be incredibly detrimental.
Maybe a half way meet between removing the full power of d-scan while allowing us at least some intel would be to have the possibility to see who and what is in the station once you're on grid with it.
A second concern I would have is timers : how do you intend to deal with the unavoidable station games that will come out of this ? As it is today, once you're out of the forcefield it is possible to bump you and keep you away. The way docking works, it will be much harder to get somebody out of docking range, and thus decrease the risk of undocking in a shiny ship. |
Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1491
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:25:50 -
[6] - Quote
Somatic Neuron wrote:
So, are we going to get assignable fighters again once this comes in?
No, Skynet is kill
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
|
Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:42:01 -
[7] - Quote
If a supercapital is XL sized the station it is moored to should be XXL just to be reasonable in size. Combined with the idea of having weapon highslots on structures the defence of such a station should be more then enough to keep a few ships of the grid. |
fluffy jo
Universal Exports
8
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:50:20 -
[8] - Quote
just listened to the soundcloud roundtable.
A few of minor questions
Will there be restrictions on ship class or size that can be moored ?
If i moore a Battleship can i change ship to a destroyer without docking ?
Can you undock in a pod and go to a moored ship and board it ? if it is yours. |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
272
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:12:14 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
- Having (super)capitals visible from space, even if invulnerable to direct assault, is going a huge intelligence boost to opposing forces.
- Having (super)capitals traceable in such a manner could allow third parties to ambush (super)capital pilots as soon as they remove moorings to destroy the ships before they can escape.
- Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.
Honestly, I don't see these as issues.
Supercapitals in particular are supposed to be strategic assets, not personal playthings (the last few years of Eve not withstanding), and as such, some thought should be put into their basing, advance, and withdrawl from the field.
To point 1: You know how modern navies hide aircraft carriers? Answer - they don't try - they're too farking big. Anyone with a halfway decent mapping sattellite can find them pretty much all the time, if they're willing to put in the time to look. Hiding the location of a super carrier is like trying to obscure the location of Central Park. If you're going to put supers out, you invest in keeping other people away from them. You move them from time to time. Or you use the ultimate cloak and log out in them, just like today.
#2 - You're saying this like it would be a bad thing. If you're going to unsling your supers on someone, shouldn't you have - I dunno - some kind of support fleet to protect them at their most vulnerable? Wouldn't knowing the time of an enemy operation, and surprising them in dock drive content?
#3 - Being able to play mooring games with Nyxes sounds like a terrible way to spend an evening. If the super cap pilot isn't thinking far enough ahead to check the availability of moorage points before they put their ship in harm's way, then the ship deserves to die in a fire.
Honeslty, it's time everyone stopped trying to treat supercaps like battlecruisers. Stop trying to protect them like babies in a cot.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
272
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:15:11 -
[10] - Quote
Querns wrote:Is the idea of a supercapital ship deploying its own moorable structure for personal use something you anticipated? Would you be able to do this during a fight?
That would make for some laughable situations until it got nerfed in the nuclear fire of nerfdom.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
|
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
272
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:16:25 -
[11] - Quote
Somatic Neuron wrote: So, are we going to get assignable fighters again once this comes in?
Fighters will still be assignable after Scylla - you just have to actually put the carrier in harm's way to do it. Seems fair to me.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1684
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:19:36 -
[12] - Quote
Sorry to say it but mooring doesn't seem like a good idea. Unless you give a huge invulnerability timer after unmooring, and you add the ability to moor from the same distance as a forcefield radius, it will never fully replace a forcefield-like ability.
Also if there is the ability to dock, in my opinion, only supercaps should have to moor, not caps. Otherwise there will be a LOT of things in space at all times, because people have lots of caps.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
|
Moridunum Kanjus
The Graduates Forged of Fire
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:30:26 -
[13] - Quote
Would it be possible to consider the best of both worlds when it comes to Forcefields and Mooring, mooring does seem like a cool idea to work with, but it has so many flaws previously pointed out in this thread.
Since there's an emphasis on the customizability of the structures themselves why not give the option to fit a forcefield? Obviously it would have to have a negative impact on the structure through high PG/CPU and even requiring multiple modules to function.
This would make having the mooring system far more flexible but then if you would rather a forcefield around your starbase you can compromise the utility in order to have one.
This gives people the option to do what they want and would accommodate for all types of players. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1175
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:35:09 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello people, We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog. This particular thread is going to be around the mooring and docking features tied with those new structures.
- Mooring is intended for the largest ships (supercapitals and maybe capitals) to be safely stored around those new structures. As long as they are within a specific radius of the structure, they would be invulnerable and could not be bumped. They would otherwise not be able to interact with their surroundings or other ships on the field as long as they would be protected. This is meant as a replacement for Starbase forcefield which currently has a certain number of issues.
- Docking is intended for smaller ships to be able to get inside the structure and be safe from direct assault (just like in NPC stations)
We are aware mooring presents a lot of discussion points, some of which were expressed during the Fanfest structure round table:
- Having (super)capitals visible from space, even if invulnerable to direct assault, is going a huge intelligence boost to opposing forces.
- Having (super)capitals traceable in such a manner could allow third parties to ambush (super)capital pilots as soon as they remove moorings to destroy the ships before they can escape.
- Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.
We are considering various ways of solving the points listed above, like giving some "buffer time" when pilots moor and remove moorings to give them time to react by either jumping / warping away or aligning to another structure with available mooring capability.
I'm actually of the opinion that the intelligence is fine. yes dscan will be spammed with hundreds of moored supers and capitals. The only thing I would suggest is that dscan show whether a super or cap is moored or not (probably too powerful, but there needs to be a way to filter the intel a little. We have this issue in wspace whenever someone has all their capitals just floating in a pos (its spam, we know they aren't running, and yes they are all unmanned. Its a bit spammy and hard to filter out.
The second item of traceable supers is a concern. I won't comment on that.
the third item can be pretty easily addressed with just having a number or visual queue regarding the amount of mooring spaces left on a structure. Maybe something as simple as a number in front of the structure name (3 left, 2 left, 1 left, full). You can be dramatic but sometimes simple is best.
Yaay!!!!
|
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
859
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:51:52 -
[15] - Quote
Posted this in another thread... but prob makes more sense here... What im really interested in is how close we can put these different structures together....?
Can we put smaller structures closer together and make a space community thing? Can we put smaller structures close to large structures...?
I would like to be able to make a hub of activity in a system... obviously without breaking things so that it gives an unfair advantage... i just dont want to be warping around a system doing stuff i can now do simply all in one place... and separating people out that are now all living together...
No Worries
|
Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:54:33 -
[16] - Quote
There seems to be some concern that this is replacing the POS forcefield entirely.
Not in the sense of "storing" supers or caps, but the idea that an in space staging point in being lost. Whether it's for a fleet in hostile territory, somewhere for Titans to bridge from or for miners or ratters that want to be "safe" but still have the awareness that comes with being undocked.
What happens to the forcefield in this new concept? |
Darren Fox
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
67
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
I can only echo the last poster on this. Without some sort of forcefield mechanic, there is no "staging in space". Nowhere to keep a titan, safe-align a fleet etc. What mechanism/structure will ensure that gameplay is kept? |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
273
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:06:05 -
[18] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote: I'm actually of the opinion that the intelligence is fine. yes dscan will be spammed with hundreds of moored supers and capitals. The only thing I would suggest is that dscan show whether a super or cap is moored or not (probably too powerful, but there needs to be a way to filter the intel a little. We have this issue in wspace whenever someone has all their capitals just floating in a pos (its spam, we know they aren't running, and yes they are all unmanned. Its a bit spammy and hard to filter out.
There already is a way to filter them - the Mark I eyeball. In use for gathering accurate intel since 5000 BC.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
57
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Moored ships should not appear on D-Scan.
( -í° -£-û -í°)
|
Ben Ishikela
24
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:40:45 -
[20] - Quote
Darren Fox wrote:I can only echo the last poster on this. Without some sort of forcefield mechanic, there is no "staging in space". Nowhere to keep a titan, safe-align a fleet etc. What mechanism/structure will ensure that gameplay is kept? But i like disrupting an aligning fleet when i find one. Without forcefield, they might be harder to find, but now i can actually do something. yes?
Add new modules or ships that can use tactics and strategies to beat the current meta or use totaly different gameplay to do so! yay :)
|
|
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
287
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:49:05 -
[21] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Moored ships should not appear on D-Scan.
Unlikely since currently you can see capitals inside pos shields with a d-scan currently and observation arrays [perhaps] and d-scan inhibitor modules are designed to hide things from d-scan.
A dedicated docking array with no mooring allowed at other structures I think would be preferable, then you can anchor docking arrays alongside other structures and close to other structures, to get that building a space port base feel. Anchor as many docking arrays as you feel is necessary. A limit to how many arrays a player could anchor in space could equal 5 maybe? |
Ben Ishikela
24
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:12:19 -
[22] - Quote
I would like to vote for: .no mooring.
to compensate for supercapitals: Let them switch mode to structure/invulnerabilityToDps&reinforceble/entosis mode, when the pilot decides it or leaves his commandpost on that ship. That pilot can now use the fitted station services of his own supercapital or undock from his supercap in a subcap. They are as big as F*ing stations! Why do they want to dock/beSafe somewhere if they just could employ the same or better safety-capabilities as these XL structures themselfes! When a pilot enters his seat on the super again or switches mode to "ship", he is vulnerable by dps again. (capture progress and HP have to be related somehow obviously). Also build these supers in space for everyone to see and come to play with. content for everyone, yay!
for "normal" capitals: docking seems ok to me. (but no docking in supers... o_0). Maybe make unique XXL stations and only those can assemble / be docked by "normal" capitals.
==> now that i think of moving/jumping stations. this might be great for nomadic living, as is described about the Thukkers, yes? (the minmatar carriers are shaped like barn roof. shurely this has to have a say somehow)
Add new modules or ships that can use tactics and strategies to beat the current meta or use totaly different gameplay to do so! yay :)
|
1Robert McNamara1
The Graduates Forged of Fire
72
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:15:44 -
[23] - Quote
I think Mooring can be attractive if it improves other quality of life issues.
POS shields are nice because they provide a safe place for supers to stage and do their work. Logging off makes gathering intel harder, and that balance feels good. I can know what system a given pilot is in, provided I've learned through observation, research, or spycraft that they are a super holding alt or a super pilot. Location Agents don't tell me precise location within a system however.
Mooring could show just the hulls moored (no pilot name, just ship name), or just the active ships, maybe not even an accurate number as RL harbors have ways of covering and obscuring accurate numbers. Perhaps groups choose between more mooring capacity or more hidden assets.
I'd really like if a moored super cap could be ejected from and the pilot feel safe in leaving that ship. Spaceship coffins are currently a bad barrier to entry. I get it, they can't dock for insurance/reprocessing and other balance concerns but surely holding alts and character prisons were not the intention of the ships, at the very least it's not fun game-play and requires players to game the system rather than enjoy the game.
A moored super should be able to access corp hangars/fitting services and those sorts of things from the structure they're tied to. That same structure should be dock able for sup-caps and caps. Today feeding supers is a laborious task of trucking up goods, staging them in an outpost, shuttling them to a POS... Let's take this opportunity to remove this unnecessary middle step. It's unnecessary due to the relative safety of feeding supers via this method, so it's not a conflict driver, and the amount of headache it creates to group logistics.
A moored ship must be able to rep themselves.
Bridging: This must remain a possibility. interdicting a bridging titan today takes coordination, timing, and sacrifice, that should remain true, and remain possible. Perhaps the L and XL structures have the mooring point be somewhat interior to the structure so there's a physical barrier that needs to be navigated. Bridging should be possible while moored. Otherwise it will not be worth the risk and a huge segment of end-game capability will be 'risked out of the game.' |
Literally Space Moses
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:16:57 -
[24] - Quote
Why would a supercap pilot ever moor their ship? I mean currently there are ways to store supercaps but no one uses them because it's not safe.
Outside of the biggest alliances, mooring a super is just asking to get it killed. You're a sitting duck, especially in null where you could just bubble the structure to hell and back. Either the person logs in and loses his super, or doesnt log in and loses his super. Compare this to a holding alt, where you just keep it logged off and never have to worry about your super being gone when you check back in.
This makes having a super and being part of a small group (aka not a 50k man coalition) orders of magniture more risky. Right now you can log into a pos and know you'll be safe. After this patch, you can't ever log on and feel safe.You have no pos shield protection, so you log in and if you get jumped you can moor, essentially delaying the inevitable, or die.
#T2013
|
Kalaratiri
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
531
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:18:13 -
[25] - Quote
Have unmooring give the same 30s (60?) invul timer as undocking.
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. -á- CCP Falcon
|
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1177
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:19:03 -
[26] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote: I'm actually of the opinion that the intelligence is fine. yes dscan will be spammed with hundreds of moored supers and capitals. The only thing I would suggest is that dscan show whether a super or cap is moored or not (probably too powerful, but there needs to be a way to filter the intel a little. We have this issue in wspace whenever someone has all their capitals just floating in a pos (its spam, we know they aren't running, and yes they are all unmanned. Its a bit spammy and hard to filter out.
There already is a way to filter them - the Mark I eyeball. In use for gathering accurate intel since 5000 BC.
Except now we'll have to combat probe them down. If it was solely at a warpable celestial, fine.
It won't be though.
Yaay!!!!
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
959
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:23:54 -
[27] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Somatic Neuron wrote: So, are we going to get assignable fighters again once this comes in?
Fighters will still be assignable after Scylla - you just have to actually put the carrier in harm's way to do it. Seems fair to me.
Assist (and defend) is far from the same mechanic as assignment was off grid or on grid. |
Joran Sothos
H.E.L.P.e.R Astraeaus
4
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:23:56 -
[28] - Quote
I live in wormhole space.
The problem of intelligence is key.
Currently, supers cannot dock with an SMA of any size, so they are either always in space and visible, or logged off. Mooring doesn't affect them.
Capitals, though, CAN currently dock. Forcing them to stay out in space where they can be scanned is a HUGE boost to intel gathering (wormhole space or not).
I don't see why changing poses and how they work should penalize us. We should still be able to do after the patch what we can do before the patch.
Right now, there aren't a lot (any) details, so it's hard to give comments other than at the macro level. Show us some stats, and we can give better feedback. |
Awulf
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:26:16 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:Moored ships should not appear on D-Scan. Smile I +1 this idea. You want to know whats currently moored? Get your eyeballs on it. This way when someone sees supers/caps on d-scan they know that are active and not currently moored.
Seems the idea of moorings is so that people can leave their super coffins as if they had just docked inside a station. If that were the case you wouldn't seem them on d-scan anyway. |
Literally Space Moses
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
151
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:26:49 -
[30] - Quote
Joran Sothos wrote: Currently, supers cannot dock with an SMA of any size, so they are either always in space and visible, or logged off. Mooring doesn't affect them.
Supers and titans can dock in CSMAs currently, so might want to rethink that point.
#T2013
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |