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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp The Bastion
35
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Posted - 2015.04.08 12:16:09 -
[361] - Quote
I did post a blurb a while back - no CCP comments since then.....
But:
- if 'Moored' means that you can interact with the station; get out; JC somewhere and back again before anything could happen - then I see no problem
- if 'Soft-mooring' is effectively the same as being inside a POS-shield and one can safe-log from that situation - then I also see no problem
Pilots who live in their SCs (Titans?) who used to safe-log in POS-shields can now simply login/out in a soft moor position as before in no more danger than if their POS was attacked, or not. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2016
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Posted - 2015.04.08 12:21:10 -
[362] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:I did post a blurb a while back - no CCP comments since then.....
But:
- if 'Moored' means that you can interact with the station; get out; JC somewhere and back again before anything could happen - then I see no problem
- if 'Soft-mooring' is effectively the same as being inside a POS-shield and one can safe-log from that situation - then I also see no problem
Pilots who live in their SCs (Titans?) who used to safe-log in POS-shields can now simply login/out in a soft moor position as before in no more danger than if their POS was attacked, or not. Problem is soft mooring still leaves a whole raft of issues which the current POS shield has in existence. So it shouldn't exist. Behaviour should be obvious. Ship undocks/unmoors and it has an undocking invuln timer then it's interact-able with like normal. Not a weird zone where behaviour isn't obvious that's even less visible than the POS shield. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
349
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Posted - 2015.04.08 16:13:56 -
[363] - Quote
Odin Shadow wrote:well the plan is to significantly interfere with the current mechanics.
currently I log in my supers/titans I land in what is effectively my own docking spot inside pos shields. I can swap skills, mess with fits, set contracts and all that funky stuffs safe in the knowledge that I cant be bumped or shot by randoms (can be bumped and messed with by corp/alliance members though), while I make a choice about what I want to do next. granted unless its pew pew I mostly safe log. but hey my choices.
under this new structure program. if I do not moor I will be vulnerable as soon as I land from log in warp, I can be bumped and have dic's drop bubbles on top of me. if I did chose to moor my ship im vulnerable while im not online.
just seams to be another in a long line of disincentives to owning scaps that have been released.
Hence why I said "if". The plan is open to feedback and revising, and really we don't have any sort of hard feature list for Mooring yet, just a vague idea. It's possible safe-log-off will stick around as part of Mooring, and if you do Moor your Super you can do everything you're listing there as well as do anything that requires the character to be docked in station.
Not a big deal for you I know, as has been repeatedly stated Supers pilots have gotten used to the hassles of living in a flying coffin. On the other hand, anyone ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? >.> |
pockitz
Wreckmore Investments
2
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Posted - 2015.04.09 17:18:36 -
[364] - Quote
I myself like the idea of the larger size pos's have more mooring points and letting pll dock but as the size of the pos lowers it also lowers the mooring points and the number of ppl able to dock in them. |
MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
39
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Posted - 2015.04.10 00:58:11 -
[365] - Quote
The new mooring mechanics are interesting and look cool.
They do not replace pos mechanics. If I cannot safely log off so that I can go on vacation or spend two weeks cramming for exams then you will lose some of my subscriptions. |
Lienzo
Amanuensis
83
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Posted - 2015.04.10 01:08:26 -
[366] - Quote
I'd prefer to see people be kept in space as much as possible as it discourages people from going AFK as much as stations do.
What I'd like to see is small docks for small ships, but put them inside of areas that only small ships can visit. Basically a kind of anom beacon that does not allow heavier ships to warp to it, or to bookmarks within a thousand kilometers of it. Do the same thing for medium to XL ships.
If there is a kind of deadspace effect around it, or even large warp disruption bubbles, that would be interesting. If small docks could be parked on the same grid as larger docks, I would be fine with that.
The biggest factor that is going to govern the security of docks could be sensor strength, which governs whether or not they can be scanned down. Docks might as well emit a mobile signal inhibitor effect.
If they can't be scanned, nor the ships around them, then pilots might consider going afk, even without a bubble to protect them. However, their bigger threat then will come from spies.
Perhaps there could be small bubbles within the larger scan inhibitor bubble. The bubble could double as a warp disruptor, negating its effectiveness as a staging point, if that is even needed. I like the idea of players being able to fight in the vicinity of docks though.
What we need is an ability for a lot of people to access fitting services in space, resupply their vessels, store a number of ships, yet allow for a squad or fleet commander to get a visual approximation of his or her fleet composition. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6708
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 01:46:44 -
[367] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote:The new mooring mechanics are interesting and look cool.
They do not replace pos mechanics. If I cannot safely log off so that I can go on vacation or spend two weeks cramming for exams then you will lose some of my subscriptions. Heh, don't give in.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2024
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Posted - 2015.04.10 05:02:03 -
[368] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote:The new mooring mechanics are interesting and look cool.
They do not replace pos mechanics. If I cannot safely log off so that I can go on vacation or spend two weeks cramming for exams then you will lose some of my subscriptions. Please explain to me how a POS allows you to log off safely for two weeks. Then I will believe your argument has merit.
Much as I do believe Moored ships should be safe and do an auto 'safe warp & log off' that can't be stopped if the structure is flipped. Otherwise people will just never use Mooring for more than 30 minutes. But I believe you are asking for something that a current POS does not provide. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
353
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 05:26:35 -
[369] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:MukkBarovian wrote:The new mooring mechanics are interesting and look cool.
They do not replace pos mechanics. If I cannot safely log off so that I can go on vacation or spend two weeks cramming for exams then you will lose some of my subscriptions. Please explain to me how a POS allows you to log off safely for two weeks. Then I will believe your argument has merit. Much as I do believe Moored ships should be safe and do an auto 'safe warp & log off' that can't be stopped if the structure is flipped. Otherwise people will just never use Mooring for more than 30 minutes. But I believe you are asking for something that a current POS does not provide.
If you safe-log off within a POS then your ship is safe until you log it back in. If that POS is knocked over then you have some fun ahead of you but the ship is still safe until you log it in (and if you have a Super you probably have someone you can ask either on another account or out of game). The worry here with the Mooring mechanics is that you Moor your ship, log off, and then the structure gets blown up and someone runs off with your ship (or the ship gets blown up with the structure) and you're kind of SOL. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2025
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 06:28:04 -
[370] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: If you safe-log off within a POS then your ship is safe until you log it back in. If that POS is knocked over then you have some fun ahead of you but the ship is still safe until you log it in (and if you have a Super you probably have someone you can ask either on another account or out of game). The worry here with the Mooring mechanics is that you Moor your ship, log off, and then the structure gets blown up and someone runs off with your ship (or the ship gets blown up with the structure) and you're kind of SOL.
Except that's nothing to do with a POS, that's just Logging off while in space.
If you actually use a POS to store your Super it is at risk of it being stolen randomly by anyone with access to the POS, and it can get blown up & stolen as it stands already.
Like I said, I agree mooring should be safe or it won't get used just like no-one uses the CSMA's to store supers now. But it's not a removal of an existing feature, it's the addition of a new feature. |
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
353
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 06:41:27 -
[371] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Except that's nothing to do with a POS, that's just Logging off while in space.
If you actually use a POS to store your Super it is at risk of it being stolen randomly by anyone with access to the POS, and it can get blown up & stolen as it stands already.
Like I said, I agree mooring should be safe or it won't get used just like no-one uses the CSMA's to store supers now. But it's not a removal of an existing feature, it's the addition of a new feature.
If you're in a POS and it's not knocked over though then you appear back in the POS bubble rather than warping back into the game and potentially getting bubbled. Sorry, should have mentioned this in the original post.
Basically safe-logoff in a POS is significantly safer than it is elsewhere, and has some added benefits, and the Supers pilots are worried about losing this. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2025
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 07:27:13 -
[372] - Quote
But if you Moor and it's not knocked over then you are utterly fine also. So you aren't losing that at all. |
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
7
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Posted - 2015.04.10 08:30:37 -
[373] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:But if you Moor and it's not knocked over then you are utterly fine also. So you aren't losing that at all.
mooring and current pos mechanics (safe place to log in that is effectively the same as the station screen) should go hand in hand. we should not be forced to moor and we should always have the option to the same mechanics as we have now. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2025
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:31:15 -
[374] - Quote
Odin Shadow wrote: mooring and current pos mechanics (safe place to log in that is effectively the same as the station screen) should go hand in hand. we should not be forced to moor and we should always have the option to the same mechanics as we have now.
But you aren't going to lose anything. If you log out in space you are going to be as safe as you are now. Since you can log back into a bubble camp on your POS or your POS destroyed currently (or even a hostile POS where yours was). So the fact this can happen to a new structure is identical to the current POS. If you log out at a Safe, well, same either way and unaffected. If you Moor & log out, you will at the very least be safer than leaving your Super in a CSMA since no-one else can steal it (the way they are currently describing mooring)
What you are actually asking for is increased safety, not a copy of the current mechanics. I'm on board with this, just stop being so dumb and pretending that you already have what you are demanding, because insisting that you currently have perfectly safe logging out really isn't true. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6708
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 15:29:55 -
[375] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Odin Shadow wrote: mooring and current pos mechanics (safe place to log in that is effectively the same as the station screen) should go hand in hand. we should not be forced to moor and we should always have the option to the same mechanics as we have now.
But you aren't going to lose anything. If you log out in space you are going to be as safe as you are now. Since you can log back into a bubble camp on your POS or your POS destroyed currently (or even a hostile POS where yours was). So the fact this can happen to a new structure is identical to the current POS. If you log out at a Safe, well, same either way and unaffected. If you Moor & log out, you will at the very least be safer than leaving your Super in a CSMA since no-one else can steal it (the way they are currently describing mooring) What you are actually asking for is increased safety, not a copy of the current mechanics. I'm on board with this, just stop being so dumb and pretending that you already have what you are demanding, because insisting that you currently have perfectly safe logging out really isn't true. You know very well you can escape from a bubbled pos etc etc if you know how to login appropriately.
In fact even if the pos is down and there's only bubbles and hostiles watching it forever, you can still get out, if you know how to login appropriately.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2876
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:14:12 -
[376] - Quote
Suggestion 1: Build structures to defend super caps. Shouldn't other structures such as gun batteries and missiles protect the ship that is moored from being bumped?
These POSes should be protected ports, and you ought to be able to "build" a "city" out of multiple POS structures on the same grid.
A smart corporation/alliance would put up multiple gun batteries around the mooring area that is protecting his super cap fleet from lol-bumpers. Any non-registered personnel that enter the area get popped (just like a naval base).
Suggestion 2: Mooring area has "tractor beam" that pulls ships towards anchorage area based on mass of ship. The larger the ship, the larger the force pulling it towards the mooring spot. players can warp off or move freely within a dead zone (to align), but once outside they get pulled back.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
120
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Posted - 2015.04.10 22:04:57 -
[377] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:MukkBarovian wrote:The new mooring mechanics are interesting and look cool.
They do not replace pos mechanics. If I cannot safely log off so that I can go on vacation or spend two weeks cramming for exams then you will lose some of my subscriptions. Please explain to me how a POS allows you to log off safely for two weeks. Then I will believe your argument has merit. Much as I do believe Moored ships should be safe and do an auto 'safe warp & log off' that can't be stopped if the structure is flipped. Otherwise people will just never use Mooring for more than 30 minutes. But I believe you are asking for something that a current POS does not provide.
Seriously?...
When you safe log off inside a POS shield, no one can hurt you. It's very different than safe loging outside a POS shield where some asshat can lock you 0.1 second before you safely log off and... yeah you aren't safe. Same with logging back into a POS shield, MUCH safer.
Logging back can be tricky, that's why most of us use deathstar POS's deep in our sov space (and/or an alt in system to check whats going on before logging). It's tedious, but we are used to it. If this is taking away from us... then i can see a lot of people not renewing their super's accounts. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6708
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 03:34:52 -
[378] - Quote
Maybe we wouldn't explain.
Though it is true even if we catch supers we never actually hold tackle....
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
353
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 12:49:06 -
[379] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:But you aren't going to lose anything. If you log out in space you are going to be as safe as you are now. Since you can log back into a bubble camp on your POS or your POS destroyed currently (or even a hostile POS where yours was). So the fact this can happen to a new structure is identical to the current POS. If you log out at a Safe, well, same either way and unaffected. If you Moor & log out, you will at the very least be safer than leaving your Super in a CSMA since no-one else can steal it (the way they are currently describing mooring)
This isn't functionally equivalent though. You have the option to either log out in space, where you are more vulnerable logging back in than you are in a POS, or you can Moor and have the safety to come back if nothing happened to the structure you were at.
The request here is essentially that Mooring, for the purposes of logging off a cap, should be functionally identical to the current POS safe-logoff system. This doesn't represent an increase in safety, it's basically just bump immunity, and since characters without POS access bumping a ship in a POS is an exploit anyways this isn't an issue. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2876
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 15:00:36 -
[380] - Quote
The mooring mechanic is supposed to be there to keep your ship from being bumped away from your large POS. This ought to be perpendicular to ship safety when logged off.
I think that if you log while you are in your ship, then the ship still ought to warp off and/or disappear - even if it is moored.
Problem solved.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Malcaz
Addicted to Shljivovica The Looper Collective
36
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Posted - 2015.04.11 20:13:05 -
[381] - Quote
I really do not like the idea of removing the pos shield. I like being able to fly around in the pos. Docking completely removes your awareness of the space around you. |
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
237
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Posted - 2015.04.11 20:25:19 -
[382] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello people, We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog. This particular thread is going to be around the mooring and docking features tied with those new structures.
- Mooring is intended for the largest ships (supercapitals and maybe capitals) to be safely stored around those new structures. As long as they are within a specific radius of the structure, they would be invulnerable and could not be bumped. They would otherwise not be able to interact with their surroundings or other ships on the field as long as they would be protected. This is meant as a replacement for Starbase forcefield which currently has a certain number of issues.
- Docking is intended for smaller ships to be able to get inside the structure and be safe from direct assault (just like in NPC stations)
We are aware mooring presents a lot of discussion points, some of which were expressed during the Fanfest structure round table:
- Having (super)capitals visible from space, even if invulnerable to direct assault, is going a huge intelligence boost to opposing forces.
- Having (super)capitals traceable in such a manner could allow third parties to ambush (super)capital pilots as soon as they remove moorings to destroy the ships before they can escape.
- Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.
We are considering various ways of solving the points listed above, like giving some "buffer time" when pilots moor and remove moorings to give them time to react by either jumping / warping away or aligning to another structure with available mooring capability. Watchlisting should be removed and locator agents should be nerfed before or at the same time as this is added.
Since monitoring anchorages will be such a powerful intelligence tool, remove the other overly powerful intelligence tools at the same time.
Removing locator agents and making them a part of the observatory array could also work. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6709
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 22:34:52 -
[383] - Quote
Malcaz wrote:I really do not like the idea of removing the pos shield. I like being able to fly around in the pos. Docking completely removes your awareness of the space around you. Alts online, doubtless.
In fact, afk cloaking alts online... and on grid
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
121
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 01:21:48 -
[384] - Quote
+1 to removing watch list and nerfing locator agents. |
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
7
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Posted - 2015.04.12 06:15:36 -
[385] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:+1 to removing watch list and nerfing locator agents.
can we just remove mooring and introduce staging structures (aka large control tower)
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1040
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 11:31:17 -
[386] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:MukkBarovian wrote:The new mooring mechanics are interesting and look cool.
They do not replace pos mechanics. If I cannot safely log off so that I can go on vacation or spend two weeks cramming for exams then you will lose some of my subscriptions. Please explain to me how a POS allows you to log off safely for two weeks. Then I will believe your argument has merit. Much as I do believe Moored ships should be safe and do an auto 'safe warp & log off' that can't be stopped if the structure is flipped. Otherwise people will just never use Mooring for more than 30 minutes. But I believe you are asking for something that a current POS does not provide.
not to mention since POS are still going to be around for a while after we can see how it works out and if needed a similar deployable to the current POS shield may need to be added
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2242
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 19:47:57 -
[387] - Quote
In lieu of having a grad limit to docking supers, there could be a mechanic to increase the time it takes to dock a ship the more that are stored there. Anything under the desired limit would moor exactly as would be expected, but the more you have above that limit the more difficult it becomes to use it quickly. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
355
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 05:14:32 -
[388] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:not to mention since POS are still going to be around for a while after we can see how it works out and if needed a similar deployable to the current POS shield may need to be added
They want to remove the current POS shield because there are a few problems with the current mechanics. Like that they're really really easy to abuse since they're entirely location based instead of state based and involve physics. Both of which make it really easy to create and exploit edge-case behavior.
Rowells wrote:In lieu of having a grad limit to docking supers, there could be a mechanic to increase the time it takes to dock a ship the more that are stored there. Anything under the desired limit would moor exactly as would be expected, but the more you have above that limit the more difficult it becomes to use it quickly.
I don't really see this as necessary. There are already enough risks associated with having all your Supers in one egg-basket for this added disincentive to not be needed. The only time it would ever come into play is in cases where it gets someone killed, at which point why are we punishing them because their friends are moored at that structure? |
Hafwolf
StarHunt Mordus Angels
8
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 15:30:39 -
[389] - Quote
An idea with mooring ships maybe instead of a moored ship becoming not active it becomes part of the platform defense. Carriers and dreads would ad there drones and weapons. it makes sense that the weapons system of a moored ship would add to the defence of the platform. This could also be used with the bonuses that a capital ship can provide. A dread the platform could go in siege mode and if a carrier is moored it could go in triage mode. Or if an orca or rorqual are moored those ships could give mining bonus to a mining fleet. This would require the skills of the pilot to moor the ship. Plus they would risk the ship if they left it moored while they were offline. I mean carrier,super,and Titan pilots if they log off with out getting back in there ships then they deserve to loose there ships. |
Sean Crees
Sean's Solo Corp
5
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 18:50:15 -
[390] - Quote
I'm sure i'm overlooking some major reason why this can't work, but is there any chance of Mooring a super or titan to an NPC station in low or nullsec? I'd love to be able to buy and fly one of these ships one day, but i'm not looking to buy or train an alt for it, and i don't want to be stuck in a ship that just floats in space when i log off. I'd need to have the ability to dock (or in this case moore) my super to an NPC station so i can leave it and go fly other things at times. |
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