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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
7
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 15:10:59 -
[421] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Odin Shadow wrote:how will the rorq work under this new structure? I remember that mining links were the only links allowed to be used in a pos shield due to the deployed mode for boosting/compressing. so will they be allowed to be moored and in deployed mode or will the new staging structure (aka large control tower) be the option for them? I would assume that the Rorqual will be re-balanced before they get around to actually removing POS shields, and Links are going to come on-grid eventually anyways, so the question is somewhere between up in the air and moot.
I assume nothing when ccp are concerned, its an issue that needs to be addressed at the same time as the system they operate in is changed. other wise you end up with more worthless junk for at least 18 months |
Hafwolf
StarHunt Mordus Angels
8
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 15:22:02 -
[422] - Quote
Well I think the new structures will be death to all capitals.
They need to die so the rorqual can die as well. |
Ele Rebellion
Dead Star Syndicate
33
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 22:37:17 -
[423] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Ele Rebellion wrote:My concern here is W-Space.
Getting capitals in and out of W-space is no easy task. In most systems they have to be constructed inside and can never leave. For those J-Systems that allow for entrance/exit of Capitals it is no easy task. Door limits generally allow 3 capitals to pass before collapsing, and that is on the rare occasion that you actually get the wanderer to spawn.. For these reasons I don't feel mooring Capitals is the greatest of ideas. I would prefer that capitals either cloak when moored or be allowed to dock. (I imagine that the docking station would only have limited m3 and would be roughly the same as SMA?) Currently the way to determine if Capitals are in a WH (other that the rare time you come across a carrier sitting inside a c1 pos or an active escalation fleet) is to count SMA's. A WH with one or two SMA's probably isn't going to have any capitals, whereas 10+ SMAs is likely another story. This intel method is IMO the best way for this to be done. Simply clicking D-scan and knowing how many capitals and exactly what they are is a bit too easy. (lets make people actually use their heads for intel.. not just give it to them) ..by allowing them to dock you will be able to determine the chances of capitals based on the number or docking stations in system.
I think the best option is to allow capitals (non super) the option to dock or moor. Just as POSes currently allow for pilots to choose whether or not to store in SMA or leave floating. Also allow non capitals to moor if they choose. This allows pilots to show off their fancy rare skinned ships or to continue to use D-scan from an invulnerable position.
Fair point, maybe just have some visual indication of whether or not one or more ships are moored at a structure, but not how many or what type. Also as an extension/corollary to this, does this mean you would object to regular Capitals being allowed to dock in wormholes? I know intel is always a concern in Wormholes so anything that adds or takes it away is a major concern.
I would not object to allowing regular capitals being allowed to dock. As is the current mechanic. Any capital pilot can warp to an SMA and store their ship inside. (same as docking.)
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
389
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 02:19:19 -
[424] - Quote
Ele Rebellion wrote:I would not object to allowing regular capitals being allowed to dock. As is the current mechanic. Any capital pilot can warp to an SMA and store their ship inside. (same as docking.)
Yes, but SMAs have a fixed capacity while docking has traditionally not been space restricted, thus you can dock all of your assets and capitals in one structure and this removes the "count the SMA's" intel you were talking about. I was wondering about that since it's an interesting bit of gameplay and I'd hate to see something like that lost if there's no replacement for it. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6712
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 05:31:02 -
[425] - Quote
Logging out is the best.
However when everyone logs back in, you definitely realize just how small a large pos can be...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
197
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 20:30:52 -
[426] - Quote
My concern with mooring supercaps/titans in a structure is that it would STRONGLY encourage blobbers to just non-stop camp that area. The whole idea of this new sov, I thought, was to avoid having to have 50k coalitions go and grind out smaller guys with 1500 man fleets. Yet, if you had intel on specifically where someones supers/titans were, than what is to stop people from just ignoring the sov in the area and just permanently camp the moored supers/titans? It certainly seems like it would be very difficult for smaller groups living in an area to "adapt" to a CFC-like entity just going straight to their moored caps and just sitting there. The only option would SEEM to be N+1 tactics of having a bigger blob to defend your assets then the blob next door.
Right now, we are kind of doing that to s2n by going only for their high value targets, ie. staging systems and money moons. We know what to hit and where and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it. So if I'm s2n in the new EVE, why would I create a high-value target for attackers that they can just launch a blob at in what amounts to an i-win button? |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
197
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 20:38:30 -
[427] - Quote
Just a thought here, but maybe by mooring my super/titan with a structure, I add to the defensive/offensive power of that structure?
Ie. I moor my Ragnarok with a structure. Structure gains EHP, from inside of it I can DD subcaps and the guns of the pos are enhanced by 5-7k dps. This would make it so that if someone like BL comes along with 50 dreads to attack a smaller group (Say nocturnal romance) who has moored their titans and supers in one structure, that the structure could effectively defend itself because nocturnal romance has tons of supers/titans but not many pilots.
It would certainly add to the reward factor of mooring my assets. |
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
586
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 21:23:43 -
[428] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Mooring is intended for the largest ships (supercapitals and maybe capitals) to be safely stored around those new structures. As long as they are within a specific radius of the structure, they would be invulnerable and could not be bumped. They would otherwise not be able to interact with their surroundings or other ships on the field as long as they would be protected. This is meant as a replacement for Starbase forcefield which currently has a certain number of issues. This sort of supercap invulnerabilty is outdated. It made sense when alliances were smaller, operating in only a single TZ, and did not have forces available 24/7, and when there were fewer supercaps, but this is no longer the case. These days, supercaps should need to be actively protected by alliances, and not by some high-sec-type carebearish game mechanic.
Note that I can see a valid argument for protecting logged-off cap/subcap ships belonging to individuals with an invulnerability mechanic, since an individual cannot be logged on 24/7. But, supercaps were never intended to be owned and used by individuals (using Titans and SCs for ratting is ludicrous) - they were meant to be built, owned and fielded by alliances (or, at least, very large corps), who should have sufficient members, across multiple TZs, to keep them protected.
If they can't all be actively protected... well... so be it. We all know that there are too many supercaps in the game, anyways - and are being built far faster than they are being lost in combat. Supercap proliferation has been the real cause of null sec stagnation, and I don't see that the proposed Fozzie Sov is going to change this significantly.
As a compromise, however, I'd recommend that mooring slow down damage taken by ships, but not stop it completely. The mooring structures could be equipped with reppers, for example. More reppers and fewer moored ships would mean the ships would be better protected (but still not invulnerable); less reppers and more moored ships would mean the ships would be less protected. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2053
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 21:24:51 -
[429] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Yes, but SMAs have a fixed capacity while docking has traditionally not been space restricted, thus you can dock all of your assets and capitals in one structure and this removes the "count the SMA's" intel you were talking about. I was wondering about that since it's an interesting bit of gameplay and I'd hate to see something like that lost if there's no replacement for it.
POS's are equivalent to new medium structures, which are unlikely to be able to dock capitals, only moor caps most likely. Docking Caps is going to be the L & XL structures, (If not just XL) that are equivalent to current outposts or larger than current outposts. So assuming they can be deployed anywhere, WH's gain the possibility of larger structures than current. I can imagine that there could be deployment limits on WH's though, 'due to gravitational forces from the close binary' or something like that. Which may mean you only get S & M structures in WH's to match current levels. Dunno. |
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
7
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 21:51:05 -
[430] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Yes, but SMAs have a fixed capacity while docking has traditionally not been space restricted, thus you can dock all of your assets and capitals in one structure and this removes the "count the SMA's" intel you were talking about. I was wondering about that since it's an interesting bit of gameplay and I'd hate to see something like that lost if there's no replacement for it.
POS's are equivalent to new medium structures, which are unlikely to be able to dock capitals, only moor caps most likely. Docking Caps is going to be the L & XL structures, (If not just XL) that are equivalent to current outposts or larger than current outposts. So assuming they can be deployed anywhere, WH's gain the possibility of larger structures than current. I can imagine that there could be deployment limits on WH's though, 'due to gravitational forces from the close binary' or something like that. Which may mean you only get S & M structures in WH's to match current levels. Dunno.
if these l and xl structures are the only place you can moor supers they need to be allowed in low sec. as I can store a super in a pos in low sec currently |
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2300
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 21:54:36 -
[431] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Yes, but SMAs have a fixed capacity while docking has traditionally not been space restricted, thus you can dock all of your assets and capitals in one structure and this removes the "count the SMA's" intel you were talking about. I was wondering about that since it's an interesting bit of gameplay and I'd hate to see something like that lost if there's no replacement for it.
POS's are equivalent to new medium structures, which are unlikely to be able to dock capitals, only moor caps most likely. Docking Caps is going to be the L & XL structures, (If not just XL) that are equivalent to current outposts or larger than current outposts. So assuming they can be deployed anywhere, WH's gain the possibility of larger structures than current. I can imagine that there could be deployment limits on WH's though, 'due to gravitational forces from the close binary' or something like that. Which may mean you only get S & M structures in WH's to match current levels. Dunno. I believe POSes are the large structures. POCOs fall under medium, if I remember the graphic correctly. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2053
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 00:42:03 -
[432] - Quote
Rowells wrote: I believe POSes are the large structures. POCOs fall under medium, if I remember the graphic correctly.
The current and proposed graphics didn't match up by size. Current had Outposts in the 4th slot, while size wise they match up to the proposed L structures, with XL structures being even larger than current outposts. Size wise the entire POS shield on a large tower kinda matches the L structures, but the tower is similar/smaller to the M structures in size. I.E. they had a misleading graphic. |
Naidrag
Git-R-Done Logistics Git-R-Done Inc
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 01:37:07 -
[433] - Quote
Lelob wrote:Just a thought here, but maybe by mooring my super/titan with a structure, I add to the defensive/offensive power of that structure?
Ie. I moor my Ragnarok with a structure. Structure gains EHP, from inside of it I can DD subcaps and the guns of the pos are enhanced by 5-7k dps. This would make it so that if someone like BL comes along with 50 dreads to attack a smaller group (Say nocturnal romance) who has moored their titans and supers in one structure, that the structure could effectively defend itself because nocturnal romance has tons of supers/titans but not many pilots.
It would certainly add to the reward factor of mooring my assets.
I agree capitals and supers moored at a structure should ad to its defense.
This being said I think there needs to be limits on the number of super capitals and capital ships moored.
I can see some alliance that has more money then sense mooring 100 dreads or 20 Titans for structure protection.
Since all structures will be destructible when these structures are finally released I think adding moored ships should ad something to the defense or most people will not use them.
Ragnarok is the coolest ship in the game. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
390
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 01:51:51 -
[434] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:This sort of supercap invulnerabilty is outdated. It made sense when alliances were smaller, operating in only a single TZ, and did not have forces available 24/7, and when there were fewer supercaps, but this is no longer the case. These days, supercaps should need to be actively protected by alliances, and not by some high-sec-type carebearish game mechanic.
Note that I can see a valid argument for protecting logged-off cap/subcap ships belonging to individuals with an invulnerability mechanic, since an individual cannot be logged on 24/7. But, supercaps were never intended to be owned and used by individuals (using Titans and SCs for ratting is ludicrous) - they were meant to be built, owned and fielded by alliances (or, at least, very large corps), who should have sufficient members, across multiple TZs, to keep them protected.
If they can't all be actively protected... well... so be it. We all know that there are too many supercaps in the game, anyways - and are being built far faster than they are being lost in combat. Supercap proliferation has been the real cause of null sec stagnation, and I don't see that the proposed Fozzie Sov is going to change this significantly.
As a compromise, however, I'd recommend that mooring slow down damage taken by ships, but not stop it completely. The mooring structures could be equipped with reppers, for example. More reppers and fewer moored ships would mean the ships would be better protected (but still not invulnerable); less reppers and more moored ships would mean the ships would be less protected.
Except that relying on a massive alliance to protect Supers by default limits them to something that you can only have if you belong to one of those large groups.
Back when Supers were conceived a lot of things were "intended" and most of those intents have been so roundly turned on their head or crushed into the dirt by the player-base that there's talk that the entire class needs a complete re-invention.
The only thing making Moored ships vulnerable to damage would do is guarantee that no one would ever make use of the mechanic *ever* except by accident or because they didn't know better.
Lelob wrote:My concern with mooring supercaps/titans in a structure is that it would STRONGLY encourage blobbers to just non-stop camp that area. The whole idea of this new sov, I thought, was to avoid having to have 50k coalitions go and grind out smaller guys with 1500 man fleets. Yet, if you had intel on specifically where someones supers/titans were, than what is to stop people from just ignoring the sov in the area and just permanently camp the moored supers/titans? It certainly seems like it would be very difficult for smaller groups living in an area to "adapt" to a CFC-like entity just going straight to their moored caps and just sitting there. The only option would SEEM to be N+1 tactics of having a bigger blob to defend your assets then the blob next door.
Right now, we are kind of doing that to s2n by going only for their high value targets, ie. staging systems and money moons. We know what to hit and where and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it. So if I'm s2n in the new EVE, why would I create a high-value target for attackers that they can just launch a blob at in what amounts to an i-win button?
All of this is already possible with a logged out Titan or Super Carrier. It's not hard to find out who pilots such ships, then you just need to add them to watch-list, wait for them to log off, and then run a locator agent. Once you know where they logged off you can find all the POSes in the area and log off alts with probes in the area. When the character logs back in you just log in the alt and scan down where the ship is.
The reason this is impractical is because it's boring, time consuming, and most of the time the answer is "that system is deep in the heart of enemy territory and we'd get jumped if we tried to gank their ship"
Lelob wrote:Just a thought here, but maybe by mooring my super/titan with a structure, I add to the defensive/offensive power of that structure?
Ie. I moor my Ragnarok with a structure. Structure gains EHP, from inside of it I can DD subcaps and the guns of the pos are enhanced by 5-7k dps. This would make it so that if someone like BL comes along with 50 dreads to attack a smaller group (Say nocturnal romance) who has moored their titans and supers in one structure, that the structure could effectively defend itself because nocturnal romance has tons of supers/titans but not many pilots.
It would certainly add to the reward factor of mooring my assets.
Then you need to balance these structures around the theory that someone will moor the maximum allowable number of Titans at one for defensive boosts. Never mind that ridiculous suggestion of sub-cap DD just because you hooked the ship up to a structure...
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
390
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 01:52:41 -
[435] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:POS's are equivalent to new medium structures, which are unlikely to be able to dock capitals, only moor caps most likely. Docking Caps is going to be the L & XL structures, (If not just XL) that are equivalent to current outposts or larger than current outposts. So assuming they can be deployed anywhere, WH's gain the possibility of larger structures than current. I can imagine that there could be deployment limits on WH's though, 'due to gravitational forces from the close binary' or something like that. Which may mean you only get S & M structures in WH's to match current levels. Dunno.
POSes are a Large Structure equivalent, POCOs are Medium, and Sov Structures like Outposts are XL sized. It's not that old structures are being slotted into the new sizes it's that these are the current structure categories and here's what we're going to do with them, size-wise. This may have been more clear from the Fanfest presentation so I can understand the confusion.
That said I should have checked more throughly, right now it appears that Large sized structures have a finite cargo capacity. Shown here, for example.
If XL are Sov Null only then Wormholes may get docking ability but with finite storage capacity. We'll have to see how that works I guess but that's if XL are Sov Null only. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6713
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 03:19:19 -
[436] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Lelob wrote:Just a thought here, but maybe by mooring my super/titan with a structure, I add to the defensive/offensive power of that structure?
Ie. I moor my Ragnarok with a structure. Structure gains EHP, from inside of it I can DD subcaps and the guns of the pos are enhanced by 5-7k dps. This would make it so that if someone like BL comes along with 50 dreads to attack a smaller group (Say nocturnal romance) who has moored their titans and supers in one structure, that the structure could effectively defend itself because nocturnal romance has tons of supers/titans but not many pilots.
It would certainly add to the reward factor of mooring my assets. Then you need to balance these structures around the theory that someone will moor the maximum allowable number of Titans at one for defensive boosts. Never mind that ridiculous suggestion of sub-cap DD just because you hooked the ship up to a structure... More like that's a target and someone massive would be batphoned for amazing killmails.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2054
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 03:44:36 -
[437] - Quote
Or the titans could unmoor en mass and engage the attacking fleet along with support from the structure? Just saying. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 04:01:11 -
[438] - Quote
Lelob wrote:My concern with mooring supercaps/titans in a structure is that it would STRONGLY encourage blobbers to just non-stop camp that area. The whole idea of this new sov, I thought, was to avoid having to have 50k coalitions go and grind out smaller guys with 1500 man fleets. Yet, if you had intel on specifically where someones supers/titans were, than what is to stop people from just ignoring the sov in the area and just permanently camp the moored supers/titans? It certainly seems like it would be very difficult for smaller groups living in an area to "adapt" to a CFC-like entity just going straight to their moored caps and just sitting there. The only option would SEEM to be N+1 tactics of having a bigger blob to defend your assets then the blob next door.
Right now, we are kind of doing that to s2n by going only for their high value targets, ie. staging systems and money moons. We know what to hit and where and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it. So if I'm s2n in the new EVE, why would I create a high-value target for attackers that they can just launch a blob at in what amounts to an i-win button?
what about ded space?
it would be cool if in space you owned you could build jump gates that lead to areas where you would moor your super caps.
now if an emeny wants to attack your supers they have to reinforce and destroy the jump gate which will pull the structure out of ded space and able to be scanned out with probes.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 04:19:53 -
[439] - Quote
How about if you jave a fully upgraded system then you can build a 'ship yard' in ded space.
if you try and scan out the ship yard it will lead to a jump gate.
This jump gate only allows members of the alliance to activate it.
You as an attacker have to elink reinforce the jump gate.
Once the JG comes out of reinforce mode you have the standard foozie sov capture event.
If the attacker successfully destroys the jump gate then the ship yard will no longer be in ded space and can be probed and then attacked via elink but without reinforced mode. If elink is successful then the ship yard and all its contents become free for all.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
390
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 04:50:47 -
[440] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Or the titans could unmoor en mass and engage the attacking fleet along with support from the structure? Just saying.
Why would they? If they're contributing to the structure's defense and can't be targeted then they're probably more use Moored with the pilots in other ships.
MeBiatch wrote:How about if you jave a fully upgraded system then you can build a 'ship yard' in ded space.
if you try and scan out the ship yard it will lead to a jump gate.
This jump gate only allows members of the alliance to activate it.
You as an attacker have to elink reinforce the jump gate.
Once the JG comes out of reinforce mode you have the standard foozie sov capture event.
If the attacker successfully destroys the jump gate then the ship yard will no longer be in ded space and can be probed and then attacked via elink but without reinforced mode. If elink is successful then the ship yard and all its contents become free for all.
This will give super capital pilots the ability to shed thier soace graves in relative comfort knowing that they have a reinforce window to evacuate thier stuff.
This seems like just another hoop to jump through. If you can beat the enemy for the gate then you can just as easily do it for the structure the ships are moored to. No point to the mechanic in that regard, it just lets you avoid camping, which is already a thing you can do to a POS.
I think the long and the short of this is that if moored ships get destroyed or cut loose when the structure they're attached to is destroyed then the majority of supers pilots won't use mooring, or at least won't use it for any length of time. |
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 12:34:49 -
[441] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
This seems like just another hoop to jump through. If you can beat the enemy for the gate then you can just as easily do it for the structure the ships are moored to. No point to the mechanic in that regard, it just lets you avoid camping, which is already a thing you can do to a POS.
.
Not really you can bubble up a pos.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
7
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 15:18:21 -
[442] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:
This seems like just another hoop to jump through. If you can beat the enemy for the gate then you can just as easily do it for the structure the ships are moored to. No point to the mechanic in that regard, it just lets you avoid camping, which is already a thing you can do to a POS.
.
Not really you can bubble up a pos.
http://resilan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/****-caging-your-own-pos.html |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 15:31:32 -
[443] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: I think the long and the short of this is that if moored ships get destroyed or cut loose when the structure they're attached to is destroyed then the majority of supers pilots won't use mooring, or at least won't use it for any length of time.
Thats the thing though. by adding a jump gate and having the shipyard in ded space this will allow players to get leave thier ships safe. You would be able to put a clone vat bay in the shipyard so even if the JB is camped you can still get your supers out before the reinforce is done.
this will let players out of the graves and let them pvp in a condor if they wanted and when needed to be in a super can simply JC to the shipyard and un-moor the ship.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
393
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 15:42:36 -
[444] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Not really you can bubble up a pos.
And you can't bubble up an Acceleration Gate?
MeBiatch wrote:Thats the thing though. by adding a jump gate and having the shipyard in ded space this will allow players to get leave thier ships safe. You would be able to put a clone vat bay in the shipyard so even if the JB is camped you can still get your supers out before the reinforce is done.
this will let players out of the graves and let them pvp in a condor if they wanted and when needed to be in a super can simply JC to the shipyard and un-moor the ship.
I'm not seeing anything here that requires the acceleration gate to function. You can do absolutely all of this either with a private password protected POS or under the Mooring system with the stations without the acceleration gates. You don't even need to worry about bubbles if you keep an Inty somewhere else, you can just warp directly to the structure, dock up, and you're back in your coffin away from home.
The concerns that I see as more valid are those involving stepping away from the game with a ship left Moored for longer than a reinforcement timer. If you can't do this then you still need an alt per Super at which point why bother even taking them out of the ship. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 16:21:07 -
[445] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Not really you can bubble up a pos. And you can't bubble up an Acceleration Gate?.
you can but as i said you can setup a JC in the shipyard so you can bypass the camp.
Cade Windstalker wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Thats the thing though. by adding a jump gate and having the shipyard in ded space this will allow players to get leave thier ships safe. You would be able to put a clone vat bay in the shipyard so even if the JB is camped you can still get your supers out before the reinforce is done.
this will let players out of the graves and let them pvp in a condor if they wanted and when needed to be in a super can simply JC to the shipyard and un-moor the ship. I'm not seeing anything here that requires the acceleration gate to function. You can do absolutely all of this either with a private password protected POS or under the Mooring system with the stations without the acceleration gates. You don't even need to worry about bubbles if you keep an Inty somewhere else, you can just warp directly to the structure, dock up, and you're back in your coffin away from home. The concerns that I see as more valid are those involving stepping away from the game with a ship left Moored for longer than a reinforcement timer. If you can't do this then you still need an alt per Super at which point why bother even taking them out of the ship. AFAIK the mooring idea only makes sense for active pilots... if i am planing on leaving the game for an extended period of time... i'll just find a nice quiet place in a ss and log and let the sub expire... then when i come back to the game i wake up in a outpost and can undock if needed.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
393
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 17:45:31 -
[446] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:you can but as i said you can setup a JC in the shipyard so you can bypass the camp.
Which you can still do without the gate. I'm really not seeing how the gate adds anything beyond a way worse piece of space-architecture to look at. I'd rather camp outside a massive space-city than an Acceleration Gate that hasn't been significantly changed since 2004 and is never going to be impressive to look at.
MeBiatch wrote:AFAIK the mooring idea only makes sense for active pilots... if i am planing on leaving the game for an extended period of time... i'll just find a nice quiet place in a ss and log and let the sub expire... then when i come back to the game i wake up in a outpost and can undock if needed.
Which basically means they're still flying coffins... if you can afford a Super you can basically afford to buy a Super Pilot off the Bazaar. I'm not even talking super long term here, I'm talking set a long skill train and take the family to Hawaii for a week or two, if that. Not even unsubbing just something that supports a vacation without worrying about taking an Eve Capable laptop with you lest someone report you AFG for a week and they should go pop that structure because no one else can move your Super.
Ideally it would be nice for there to be some reason to train up to fly more than one Super on a character beyond "Well, I've got everything else I could ever want to 5 and maybe this thing will get popped eventually" |
d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
131
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Posted - 2015.04.18 18:15:42 -
[447] - Quote
I agree with Cade. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
393
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 18:58:29 -
[448] - Quote
Heck, how's this for a vision of Mooring mechanics:
Moored ships are visible in space, they are effectively docked in a special Hangar and the pilot who docked them can set permissions for the Alliance by roles as well as on an individual as a white-list(EG: Anyone with the new role "Titan Pilot" can access this Titan, oh and my three Alts just in case). This prevents a Super from being easily stolen, unlike a current POS shield, and means that in an emergency the Super is accessible without needing to log in the character who last piloted it, whether they logged off while Moored or not, which helps in the event of vacations or random instances of "oh our Titan pilot was a CCP employee and got outed... crap!"
Optional but really cool: Moored ships also come with a special Captain's Quarters that looks out of their ship into an active picture of Space around the ship, instead of the generic current CQ experience. I mean FFS lets at least give the Flying Coffins a couch and a wet-bar.
If you log off in a Moored ship you can either leave it Moored or use the current Safe Log-off mechanics functionally identical to logging off in a POS shield. When you log back in the ship is Moored at the station.
In the event of Station destruction:
- All Moored Supers and Capitals, regardless of occupancy, initiate an emergency Jump to somewhere in the surrounding Constellation.
- If the player logged out in their Super they can see their current system location on the character select screen and if they log in it's as if they had previously logged out in space at the place their Super panic-jumped to.
- If they were not in the Super when they logged out a Bookmark is created. This could be sent to the character only or to a specific list of people or roles. Possibly the same list that has access rites or a different list entirely.
- This bookmark acts like a DED escalation site in that it doesn't exist until someone with access to the Bookmark initiates warp to it. At the bookmark is the Super Capital in question which is now a probable object and can be retrieved and Jumped away.
- This bookmark does not expire. It's a Super Capital, it's not like it's going to just evaporate...
I think this strikes a nice balance between docking, safety, and not nerfing current mechanics. The exception is Supers being visible while Moored vs the current Safe Logoff setup. The reasoning for this is that it's currently very very easy to track down a Super and I don't even have to go to Null to do it. I can sit at a Locator Agent in High Sec feeding in names off of ZKillboard and get the current location of every Super pilot that's shot anyone in the last 3-4 years. Throw in the potential for scraping the Character Bazaar and I can probably get most of the holding Alts too. Since a Moored super without a pilot is immune to this I feel it's actually a buff to hiding these things since you actually need to go out and Mark 1 eyeball a structure at a specific point in space to definitively determine where a Super is located, rather than just paying some Agent in High Sec to tell you the system.
One Crazy Idea addition
I also have a crazy idea for putting these empty capitals inside Deadspace sites with Sub-cap only access rites. The Super then needs to go through a start-up sequence to online the ship and all modules one at a time. During this time it can be scanned down but is only accessible through the Acceleration Gate and can only be attacked or defended by a sub-cap fleet. The pilot running the ship can use any modules as they come online, with guns being first, followed by support modules, and lastly the tank. After that the Deadspace Pocket disintegrates and the Super can jump away.
I think this sounds like a super cool idea, I also think no sane Super pilot would support its implementation since retrieving a Super floating in space will already give them enough grey hairs without having to sit around for 30 minutes hoping no one takes an interest in their well-being, or dragging around a huge sub-cap fleet on retrieval duty. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 19:13:20 -
[449] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Heck, how's this for a vision of Mooring mechanics: Moored ships are visible in space, they are effectively docked in a special Hangar and the pilot who docked them can set permissions for the Alliance by roles as well as on an individual as a white-list(EG: Anyone with the new role "Titan Pilot" can access this Titan, oh and my three Alts just in case). This prevents a Super from being easily stolen, unlike a current POS shield, and means that in an emergency the Super is accessible without needing to log in the character who last piloted it, whether they logged off while Moored or not, which helps in the event of vacations or random instances of "oh our Titan pilot was a CCP employee and got outed... crap!" Optional but really cool: Moored ships also come with a special Captain's Quarters that looks out of their ship into an active picture of Space around the ship, instead of the generic current CQ experience. I mean FFS lets at least give the Flying Coffins a couch and a wet-bar. If you log off in a Moored ship you can either leave it Moored or use the current Safe Log-off mechanics functionally identical to logging off in a POS shield. When you log back in the ship is Moored at the station. In the event of Station destruction:
- All Moored Supers and Capitals, regardless of occupancy, initiate an emergency Jump to somewhere in the surrounding Constellation.
- If the player logged out in their Super they can see their current system location on the character select screen and if they log in it's as if they had previously logged out in space at the place their Super panic-jumped to.
- If they were not in the Super when they logged out a Bookmark is created. This could be sent to the character only or to a specific list of people or roles. Possibly the same list that has access rites or a different list entirely.
- This bookmark acts like a DED escalation site in that it doesn't exist until someone with access to the Bookmark initiates warp to it. At the bookmark is the Super Capital in question which is now a probable object and can be retrieved and Jumped away.
- This bookmark does not expire. It's a Super Capital, it's not like it's going to just evaporate...
I think this strikes a nice balance between docking, safety, and not nerfing current mechanics. The exception is Supers being visible while Moored vs the current Safe Logoff setup. The reasoning for this is that it's currently very very easy to track down a Super and I don't even have to go to Null to do it. I can sit at a Locator Agent in High Sec feeding in names off of ZKillboard and get the current location of every Super pilot that's shot anyone in the last 3-4 years. Throw in the potential for scraping the Character Bazaar and I can probably get most of the holding Alts too. Since a Moored super without a pilot is immune to this I feel it's actually a buff to hiding these things since you actually need to go out and Mark 1 eyeball a structure at a specific point in space to definitively determine where a Super is located, rather than just paying some Agent in High Sec to tell you the system. One Crazy Idea additionI also have a crazy idea for putting these empty capitals inside Deadspace sites with Sub-cap only access rites. The Super then needs to go through a start-up sequence to online the ship and all modules one at a time. During this time it can be scanned down but is only accessible through the Acceleration Gate and can only be attacked or defended by a sub-cap fleet. The pilot running the ship can use any modules as they come online, with guns being first, followed by support modules, and lastly the tank. After that the Deadspace Pocket disintegrates and the Super can jump away. I think this sounds like a super cool idea, I also think no sane Super pilot would support its implementation since retrieving a Super floating in space will already give them enough grey hairs without having to sit around for 30 minutes hoping no one takes an interest in their well-being, or dragging around a huge sub-cap fleet on retrieval duty.
Cool stuff
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Alia Ravenswing
DARK HAT
35
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 19:10:58 -
[450] - Quote
Enta en Bauldry wrote:In W-Space, intel is gathered by d-scanning and looking on-grid (at POSes) to see if any players are active and what kind of ships they're in.
Do you intend to permit docking in W-Space? This would make intel gathering much harder unless mechanics are put in place to see what the docked players are doing. This is my biggest concern with the proposed "anchor any structure anywhere" philosophy you outlined at the fanfest presentation.
Docking at a POS in W-Space has been around ever since Apocrypha came out. My entire alliance did that way. |
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