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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
729
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:11:38 -
[91] - Quote
granted the problems of MY TITAN are a minor issue in game balance but when you're designing a system for MY TITAN you should be aware that while i'm willing to risk flying it around myself, my willingness to risk it on someone else's dumb mistakes or being logged out too long is rather miniscule. I think the only time I'd moor is if pos had been entirely removed and it was a system i couldn't manage to do a safe logout in. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
11
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:12:05 -
[92] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:RainReaper wrote: not even walking out of the thing once in a while? not gonna question your playstyle but what if we want to make it so that you dont need a toon for each super cap you got? thats a lot of cash to pay each month dude
my titan is worth 5-10x the amount of the pilot (and most of the pilot's value is in being a supercap character because he's specially trained, he's a ****** pilot for anything without a jump drive). I will never habitually risk my pilot to get an extra alt every so often: if I need another subcap guy for some reason I will buy one or train one with the other slots, not risk my titan.
yeah. but why should it even be a risk to lose a titan or a super simply cause you left it in an array? it should be possible to leave a ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause you wanted to leave it for a little bit. i PERSONALY dont want 10 chars for everything in the game. but again its up to you guys. im just saying it should be possible to temporary leave any ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause of bad code. i just think it should be possible. building a titan is already expensive like fliping hell you know. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
202
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:13:33 -
[93] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Sorry to say it but mooring doesn't seem like a good idea. Unless you give a huge invulnerability timer after unmooring, and you add the ability to moor from the same distance as a forcefield radius, it will never fully replace a forcefield-like ability.
Also if there is the ability to dock, in my opinion, only supercaps should have to moor, not caps. Otherwise there will be a LOT of things in space at all times, because people have lots of caps.
I have to agree with the brave person,
there's an incredible issue of ccp dev not understanding that these level of pilots have not just 1 but perhaps 2 or even 10 caps as spares.
so ccp dude... what about them?
what happens when all the caps needed and must be moored on day 1? .. you're litteraly forcing tons of structures be in demand just to park them all.
tunnel-vision have we?
the mooring idea is a bad one and unfeasible cause folks have multiple caps, rorquals, super caps, and titans..
you're going to turn our space into a junkyard of parked ships. |
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force The Kadeshi
187
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:14:38 -
[94] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:John McCreedy wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:John McCreedy wrote:What's the point of mooring? Genuine question this, not being funny. Why would I want to moor? Why am I doing this? It's not been explained what the reason behind wanting to do this is? To access cloning? To access fitting? Certainly not accessing the market since you're separating this from the main docking area? Why am I mooring? We can't debate the pros and cons of the idea without this question being because you can't dock a supper but they are getting rid of the pos bubble so the need a replacement I can log off at a safe in low sec. Can't be bubbled, can't be tackled. Take proper precautions and it'll be safer than mooring, especially if entire fleets log off in the same spot. What happens to my ship when I log off? Do I pop out of space? If I do pop out of space and I'm moored, can someone else moor at the same spot? How do they know I'm there? What happens if the structure I'm moored at is attacked? Am I suddenly vulnerable to being attacked with no hope of being able to escape or fight back because I'm not online? If I'm 'ejected' somewhere in the system, can I not simply be scanned down and attacked? How many mooring slots do we get? What happens to the rest of the fleet? What if we have more Supers than systems? What I'm getting at here is that mooring should be a short term solution to allowing you to 'dock' in order to access something you need to be able to access. CCP should not remove POS, POS should simply be restricted to being mobile deployable shields. There's too many unanswered questions and the whole thing as a long term solution opens a can of worms. then its a good thing CCP isn't getting rid of the POS for a long time not till well after everything it does is replaced i feel like this is something they need to re mention in this thread
Sure but you understand my point, yes? Whether they remove them next month or in ten years time, it's an eventuality that causes more problems than it solves down the line. Mooring is a great idea if it allows me to insure my Super. Mooring is a great idea if it allows me to directly buy more drones for my Super. Mooring is a great idea if it allows me to refit my ship without the need of another Carrier pilot on grid with me. Mooring as a replacement for storing Supers/Super fleets behind POS shields causes a multitude of problems.
Let me give an example. Under the current system a Titan pilot can have his Alliance plonk down a tower in space for him to sit behind the shield and bridge people out of system. Once the fleet has left he's afforded a level of protection by way of the shield. His enemy can still infiltrate his alliance and use a ship to bounce him out of the shield where he can still be killed by an enemy Cap fleet. There's a risk, but its manageable. It's balanced. Eventually remove POS and we have a situation where said Titan pilot is sat in the middle of open space bridging. Once the fleet has gone he's afford precisely no protection whatsoever. The enemy doesn't need to infiltrate the Alliance, the enemy simply needs to be in system with a cyno and a dozen Titans can jump in, gank him, and jump out before anyone knows what's happening.
In this scenario, why would the pilot risk a 100+ billion ISK ship outside of the protection of their home space? Since you can do that with (eventually) Gates, that presumably have the same jump distance then what need of the Titan? The ship becomes useless. The short sighted might say that's a good thing, it slows down enemy movement. What they (and apparently certain elements within CCP) fail to understand is that many players don't have hours on end available for traveling, they want instant action. This is why fatigue and the remote placement of jump clones as an inelegant solution to the problem of force projection. CCP should be giving PvPers tools to get in to the action faster, not slower.
11 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
729
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:15:14 -
[95] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:[yeah. but why should it even be a risk to lose a titan or a super simply cause you left it in an array? it should be possible to leave a ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause you wanted to leave it for a little bit. i PERSONALY dont want 10 chars for everything in the game. but again its up to you guys. im just saying it should be possible to temporary leave any ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause of bad code. i just think it should be possible. building a titan is already expensive like fliping hell you know. if I need to leave my titan for 10m it's no problem, I just put up an xlsma in my altcorp or just eject after scrambling the pass and disallowing alliance entry. it's just dumb as hell to do either for more than 10m. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
11
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:16:46 -
[96] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:RainReaper wrote:[yeah. but why should it even be a risk to lose a titan or a super simply cause you left it in an array? it should be possible to leave a ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause you wanted to leave it for a little bit. i PERSONALY dont want 10 chars for everything in the game. but again its up to you guys. im just saying it should be possible to temporary leave any ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause of bad code. i just think it should be possible. building a titan is already expensive like fliping hell you know. if I need to leave MY TITAN for 10m it's no problem, I just put up an xlsma in my altcorp or just eject after scrambling the pass and disallowing alliance entry. it's just dumb as hell to do either for more than 10m.
you know we will be geting the ability to have private structurtes right? why not store the titna in one of those? |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
730
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:20:01 -
[97] - Quote
RainReaper wrote: you know we will be geting the ability to have private structurtes right? why not store the titna in one of those?
for the same reason i do not store MY TITAN in my own XLSMA in a corp nobody else has access to: because it's making my titan vulnerable 100% of the time i'm logged out, and also vulnerable to "whoops, forgot to fuel that tower" compared to just logging out where i'm vulnerable 0% of the time
as a titan is a fairly low-use thing it is logged out most of the time (mine has been logged in less than an hour all year)
it's just a solution in search of a problem, i don't get why anyone would use it. if you've conjured up enough isk for a titan you can conjure up an alt for one of the other two slots on the account for whatever else you'd want to use the account for. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
11
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:22:56 -
[98] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:RainReaper wrote: you know we will be geting the ability to have private structurtes right? why not store the titna in one of those?
for the same reason i do not store MY TITAN in my own XLSMA in a corp nobody else has access to: because it's making my titan vulnerable 100% of the time i'm logged out, and also vulnerable to "whoops, forgot to fuel that tower" compared to just logging out where i'm vulnerable 0% of the time as a titan is a fairly low-use thing it is logged out most of the time (mine has been logged in less than an hour all year) it's just a solution in search of a problem, i don't get why anyone would use it. if you've conjured up enough isk for a titan you can conjure up an alt for one of the other two slots on the account for whatever else you'd want to use the account for.
arent they changin the way fuel work as well? the thing being online dosent use fuel. only using the special service arrays makes it use fuel. other than that. just using it to store stuff wont cost much more than simply geting the gear for it. as far as i have understood |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1513
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:23:35 -
[99] - Quote
Even if mooring supercapital ships isn't a strong long-term solution for storage, I still feel it's worth having, if only so a supercapital ship doesn't necessarily have to rely on a hauling alt to refuel and replenish its materiel.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1127
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:35:14 -
[100] - Quote
Titan bridging without pos shields? You are vulnerable when the bridge is up and unable to move. So you are in a situation where you cannot move and have no protection and since you just sent all your friends through a bridge no immediate backup. This issue needs resolving.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Antonia Iskarius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:35:54 -
[101] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:RainReaper wrote:[yeah. but why should it even be a risk to lose a titan or a super simply cause you left it in an array? it should be possible to leave a ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause you wanted to leave it for a little bit. i PERSONALY dont want 10 chars for everything in the game. but again its up to you guys. im just saying it should be possible to temporary leave any ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause of bad code. i just think it should be possible. building a titan is already expensive like fliping hell you know. if I need to leave MY TITAN for 10m it's no problem, I just put up an xlsma in my altcorp or just eject after scrambling the pass and disallowing alliance entry. it's just dumb as hell to do either for more than 10m. I left two supers docked in my CSMA for literally 6 months straight. Sure, I had to set up a personal alt corp for it and I had to log in every 3 1/'2 days to make sure it wasn't reffed, but it worked, noone every came around and ****** with it and if I needed to unsub or go on vacation I could just sit my pilots in them, safe log, and pull the CSMA down. If POS could be made personal without needing an alt corp it would solve a lot of problems. I don't like this mooring concept at all from what I've heard so far, the current system works just fine with a few tweaks. |
Grapillon
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:37:05 -
[102] - Quote
Actually the best and most convincing idea this far:
Super Capitals represent the bridge between structures (xl) and ships. A Titan has three Modus Operandi:
1. Structure Mode: Ships may dock, assets may be bunkered in finite quantity, exchange intelligence loss with one gain. one big target you never know what is inside. Destructible, reinforceable. Once in reinforce the titan may change anyrime back to another mode and warp off (jump drive / cloak broken until cooldown is over). An extensive onlining time avoids misuse. If destroyed same mechanic as structures.
2. logistic mode: The ship is one big catapult (gateway) that becomes more unprecise the further the target is. The Titan itself is completely unmovable in this mode. Additionally while not activating the catapult you can freely gravel as before.
3. bonus mode: Create wormhole like effects on the grid around the titan. These effects act on all ships, not only friendly. The erfects do not add up, only one effect per grid. This ties in with the new sov mechanic that will lead to distribution of titans among command points. The doomsday effect is nownthat around the titan a deadsoace like environment with dust appears that represent the effect. As long as this modus is active the titan is completely indestructible but can also not be used for anything, all systems shutdown. It also costs fuel.
Super Carrier have no logistics mode, reduced bonus mode and reduced structure mode. Remove all weapons and offensive capabilities. Switching between modes takes quiet some time and has a cooldown. |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
219
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:37:46 -
[103] - Quote
I really like the concept of mooring in the game, and especialy if it means even the biggest ships can be safely swapped, and the game does not require anymore that capital pilots stay stuck to their capital ship.
As cool as the images of moored ships can be, I do not believe the mooring capability should be represented graphically. Have the mooring berths be inside, and allow stocks of ships to be stored there as they cam be in stations or SMA but have the mooring capability increase with time and maintenance costs spent, which will make it unique and different from SMA.
After all, why not assume that every station in Eve was not a POS with a mooring facility at the beginning? This is how cities became what they are, they all started as a small village at some point.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
294
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:39:15 -
[104] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Kalaratiri wrote:Have unmooring give the same 30s (60?) invul timer as undocking. It's one of the options we're currently thinking about. That doesn't do a lot for someone bubbled unless they can re-moor in that timeframe.
My question is, if you are in a moored ship, would you have the outside grid loaded, or see the station interior? If it's the former, then this isn't an issue - if there's a bubble, you don't unmoor.
If, on the other hand, it's mechanically the same as docking, and all you see is the inside of the station hangar, then just let them dock.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1515
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:41:57 -
[105] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Titan bridging without pos shields? You are vulnerable when the bridge is up and unable to move. So you are in a situation where you cannot move and have no protection and since you just sent all your friends through a bridge no immediate backup. This issue needs resolving. I don't necessarily agree, though I'm sure my alliance would disagree strenuously. :) I feel like a basic requirement to guard your titan while it's vulnerable is not a bad thing.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
731
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:51:03 -
[106] - Quote
Antonia Iskarius wrote: I left two supers docked in my CSMA for literally 6 months straight. Sure, I had to set up a personal alt corp for it and I had to log in every 3 1/'2 days to make sure it wasn't reffed, but it worked, noone every came around and ****** with it and if I needed to unsub or go on vacation I could just sit my pilots in them, safe log, and pull the CSMA down. If POS could be made personal without needing an alt corp it would solve a lot of problems. I don't like this mooring concept at all from what I've heard so far, the current system works just fine with a few tweaks.
that you did a dumb thing doesn't make it any less dumb, it just suggests that if you offer dumb options to people there is a minority who will say yes, i am tired of making good choices in life |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1127
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Posted - 2015.03.23 18:57:44 -
[107] - Quote
Querns wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Titan bridging without pos shields? You are vulnerable when the bridge is up and unable to move. So you are in a situation where you cannot move and have no protection and since you just sent all your friends through a bridge no immediate backup. This issue needs resolving. I don't necessarily agree, though I'm sure my alliance would disagree strenuously. :) I feel like a basic requirement to guard your titan while it's vulnerable is not a bad thing.
Except that you just bridged your guards away.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
731
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:00:14 -
[108] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: Except that you just bridged your guards away.
a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary
don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1515
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:01:48 -
[109] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: Except that you just bridged your guards away.
a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism plus, you retain the option to batphone offline supercapitals in what is ostensibly a staging system
I can't really speak to something like erecting a pos in hostile sov and bridging out of there, though!
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Rose Honey
Small Holdings Inc.
2
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:02:44 -
[110] - Quote
If the XL Stations are Twice the size of current stations. wouldn't that mean they could fit a limited number of supers?
I'm not for supers docking, but I mean, 100km station pretty big.
As for mooring, I don't think under any condition should you be allowed to Bridge or jump a Super or titan while moored. That would basically make them over powered.
Pilots should be forced to unmoor before bridging fleets into battle, as well as gain a timer before they could remoor similar to an aggression timer. |
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1127
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:03:27 -
[111] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: Except that you just bridged your guards away.
a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism
So the answer is you just need more people? Need enough people to cover 5 systems where SOV events are spawning and enough people to guard the titan. Sounds great if you are in a massive coalition.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1515
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:04:02 -
[112] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: Except that you just bridged your guards away.
a titan bridge does not scoop everyone in the system up willy-nilly and throw them at your target against their will, some guards can stay back if necessary don't know that it would be fun gameplay but that is not a valid criticism So the answer is you just need more people? Need enough people to cover 5 systems where SOV events are spawning and enough people to guard the titan. Sounds great if you are in a massive coalition. Or you could abstain from bridging and take gates, if it's so inconvenient.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1181
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:04:05 -
[113] - Quote
Grapillon wrote:3. bonus mode: Create wormhole like effects on the grid around the titan.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one considering this. It just seemed so far-fetched I didn't post it.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
731
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:05:40 -
[114] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: So the answer is you just need more people? Need enough people to cover 5 systems where SOV events are spawning and enough people to guard the titan. Sounds great if you are in a massive coalition.
nobody requires you to use titan bridges to cover a single constellation, in fact in most constellations that would be a dumb idea as you just accumulate spaceaids to save a minute - at best - while probably losing time from sitting on the titan and organizing things |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1515
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:08:41 -
[115] - Quote
Hell; there's a constellation in Deklein where a single titan can't even hit every system in it due to its hilarious geography and a titan's elderly 5LY range.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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1Robert McNamara1
The Graduates Forged of Fire
74
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:22:56 -
[116] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:My question is, if you are in a moored ship, would you have the outside grid loaded, or see the station interior? If it's the former, then this isn't an issue - if there's a bubble, you don't unmoor.
If, on the other hand, it's mechanically the same as docking, and all you see is the inside of the station hangar, then just let them dock.
They stated during the round table recording on TMC that ideally station interiors would go away. Everyone moored or docked would get to see what's going on outside.
The other thing for people hoping to keep POS's, that's probably not going to happen. We all hate POS code. CCP has to replace it with something else and the amorphous idea of Mooring is up for definition. Do we want it to work exactly the same as POS? or do we want something better? worse? Fighting to keep POSs is probably wasted text at this point. |
Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1181
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:23:00 -
[117] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:...why should it even be a risk to lose a titan or a super simply cause you left it in an array? it should be possible to leave a ship without risking it geting stolen simply cause you wanted to leave it for a little bit.
Do you park your car on the street with no risk of it ever being stolen? No. Do you go on vacation with zero risk of someone breaking into your home and stealing all your things? No. Do you use your credit card online with no risk of your financial information being stolen? No.
The same things are true of Eve Online. The difference is that in Eve, there are no repercussions for theft if it is done within the game universe. There is no place in Eve Online for a zero-risk situation. If you think it should be so, Diablo 3 is over at the Blizzard servers.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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M1k3y Koontz
Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking
741
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:24:35 -
[118] - Quote
Will subcaps be able to anchor? I noticed in the dev blog the only structures that allowed docking were the XL superstructures. It would seem odd that strategic assets can anchor to a large structure, but a little T1 frigate can't be safe in anything other than an XL structure three times larger than most NPC stations.
It shouldn't take an XL structure to keep safe subcaps if all thats required to keep capitals safe is a large.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1515
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:28:52 -
[119] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Will subcaps be able to anchor? I noticed in the dev blog the only structures that allowed docking were the XL superstructures. It would seem odd that strategic assets can anchor to a large structure, but a little T1 frigate can't be safe in anything other than an XL structure three times larger than most NPC stations.
It shouldn't take an XL structure to keep safe subcaps if all thats required to keep capitals safe is a large. I think the smaller ships would get to properly dock, like they do in stations now. Mooring was mostly reserved for supercapital ships, though I think having, e.g. capitals have to moor at smaller structures might be kinda cool.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Arthur Aihaken
Narada
4203
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:38:23 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:"The idea for the mooring capabilities are that they are configurable and have a finite limit, so multiple structures will be required to house particularly large fleets." Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure. Actually, I think this is a good mechanic. It ensures that you leave enough berthing capacity at your forward operating bases for these contingencies. I'm not 100% on how mooring is intended to work, but I assume it would be something along the lines of adding an "S" module that expands mooring capability by x number of supercapital berths.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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