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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3751
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:14:11 -
[1] - Quote
Hello people,
We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog.
This particular thread is going to focus what happens to items stored inside structures when they blow up (or end up captured) in a blaze of glorious space explosions.
- First option is to have the structure turn into a wreck - fitted structure modules could drop as loot, while items inside the structure would only be accessible to their rightful owner(s), possibly through salvaging. Users docked at the time of the structure destruction would still be docked inside the wreck, but unable to dock back should they exit.
- Another option is to use the same mechanic we have for planetary launches. When a structure is destroyed, all assets are moved into special containers. A container exists for each individual that stored items in the structure, as well as corporation entities and are spread around planets. When this happens, an entry would appear on the owner journal giving a warp-in point to go to. Please note such containers would not be destructible at all, and could not be scanned until the rightful owner comes to retrieve his or her loot. The duration at which those entries would stay remains entirely dependent to the structure type and player condition when it was destroyed (logged off, account lapsed etcGǪ). Player docked inside the structure would be spread around the solar system.
- Third option could be to have the items inside the structure moved to another structure belonging to the same owners.
Such gameplay is necessary if we wish players to use those new structures and not stash all of their items in NPC stations. Also, please note, it is possible for such mechanics to only be available in the largest structures (most likely XL) since existing Starbases do not have any kind of item safety mechanic (and would likely end up as L size equivalent in the new model). |
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
534
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:23:01 -
[2] - Quote
The second option isn't very feasible in a few scenarios: 1) How would it interact with significant volumes of items that would take some time to recover? Would the container 'despawn' when not in use, and come back again? 2) What about extremely bulky items such as station containers or assembled capital ships? They can't be picked up even by freighters. 3) How would it interact with corporation assets; who gets to spawn and access them?
Would you consider adding the option to rebuild / restore structure wrecks generated by the first method? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1489
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:43:52 -
[3] - Quote
Agreed that some mechanism of recovering assets is vital to encourage use of these destructible structures.
Perhaps a last-ditch option GÇö NPCs airlift half (or less) your stuff to the nearest npc 0.0 or lowsec area, chosen randomly from the stuff that you have? Retain one or more of the other options as a way to get back all your stuff, but using the airlift makes the stuff not randomly chosen be destroyed.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Vicar2008
Mindstar Technology Get Off My Lawn
131
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:45:18 -
[4] - Quote
Quick question, not sure if this has been asked yet?
Are these types of structures going to be along the old line of one per system? |
Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
7
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:48:24 -
[5] - Quote
How about you can send SoE to retrieve your assets but you have to pay 0,5% of the value per ly between the destroyed structure and the delivery station? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1014
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:53:21 -
[6] - Quote
Would containers be able to be found by ninja looters scouring the are of a destroyed station to de-cloak the can (like the standard sleeper cache cans)? |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
272
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:53:29 -
[7] - Quote
Another (potential) issue.
What about people who have unsubbed? If stuff ends up in containers scattered around, you could be adding lots of objects to the servers over time that may never (?) go away.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12248
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:02:11 -
[8] - Quote
There should be a difference between what is lost in the hangar normally, and what is in station containers.
The containers should be whole, with their loot inside.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1174
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:11:51 -
[9] - Quote
Maybe the best of all worlds.
There has to be a benefit to the killer of the structure (aka loot), but you cannot screw over those already inside the structure either (making them poor).
So maybe doing all three of those at once.
You destroy a structure, 10% of it drops as loot immediately, 40% of it remains in space for indeterminent amount of time to be picked up, if not, becomes free for all loot, the other 50% gets moved another structure belonging to the same owner.
Basically, the person loses 10% of their belongings immediately, can recover 40% if they go get it, and has HALF of their stuff moved to the next structure. So you guaranteed lose half of your stuff, with the ability to recover up to 90% of your stuff if you go get it. You aren't spacepoor because you at least got 50% of it.
Evacing stuff out isn't mandatory anymore because you'll at least get half of it back, but the attacker gets some immediate benefit for attacking (loot), and some more loot if they catch or camp the spot of destruction.
The numbers can be played with. 10% seems low, 20% seems high, maybe 15% is the good drop loot rate.
Yaay!!!!
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Ix Method
Guilty Pleasures
426
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:14:39 -
[10] - Quote
If it is to be a wreck or something similar it would be nice to have your kerpsloded stuff contractable to a courier contract.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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MiliasColds
The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance
51
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:16:36 -
[11] - Quote
something that my ceo brought up was that for corporations, and even players these assets include many ships, and if you couldn't re-dock, and only salvage from wreck how do you get the ships you didn't undock in, and also that the volume can be very large. most importantly though as it stands even if you never get access to the outpost things are trapped in now, you can at least use jump clones to sell the things. so perhaps there should be an option to take an insurance style payout at some % of value and then have the items dissapear ?
moslty he brought up that you have to consider that there may be A LOT of assets in these structures, not something you can fit in one or two freighters, but more like 15-20 |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1684
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:24:01 -
[12] - Quote
In my opinion, being able to undock from wreck and unable to dock back is rather odd.
However, the idea of using the same thing than planetary-launches sound rather cool! You could see emergency ejection capsules going off in all directions when you kill a structure, with the number of ejection capsules reflecting the amount of stuff that was inside.
For docked ships, you would log-in docked in your ejection capsule (or just undocked) at a safe. And you'd be able to collect your stuff by warping to another safe with your loot, only known to you.
Otherwise, the idea of having it teleported to another structure is also interesting. But less realistic.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
571
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:27:35 -
[13] - Quote
Considering the value of the items currently in a freeform 'mooring' in POS's any significant reduction to the safety of those assets when moving from the current system to this new system will be met with significant resistance, and rightly so in my opinion.
considering that in the devblog it reads:
Quote:...if your e-peen is too large for docking, mooring will be preferred option.
...Wreck: when a structure is destroyed ... Moored ships would however become vulnerable and up for grabs by anyone.
im paraphrasing slightly but the intent is pretty obvious from what i see. This goes entirely against the 1st Improvement Goal set out at the start of the devblog and states:
Quote:Support and enhance existing gameplay
this change does not Support or enhance gameplay, it removes gameplay options and endangers assets owned by players when they may not even be logged in. which is entirely unfair. Im not going to lie, for people hunting e-peens its fantastic news, and is why i fully expect some severe polarisation of views on this.
My personal opinion on what should be done with regards to logged off supers that arent aggro'd but are moored onto a structure thats about to die, is that a ship cuts off mooring ties and 'blind' jumps to a random location in a randomised system.
In terms of specific eve context this random location could be within base jump range attribute of the super from its previous location, and due to its blind jump there's would be no cyno to speak of. Its Jump would be conducted from within the mooring forcefield that counteracts any warp disruption field around it. This action could not and should not be available to an active player or in any other situation except the cataclysmic destruction of the structure containing the mooring service. Once the jump is completed the super e-warps off using base attributes for the ship in terms of align speed and warp. The blind jump direction and distance is trackable due to how eve jump portals work, so it does give a hint of its direction. Knowledge of this and the configuration of nearby star systems can be key to planning a trap with sufficient skill, knowledge and preparation, alongside a good amount of luck.
This would also add to the necessity of strategic placement of supercapital mooring pens, thatther than just wehre its convenient.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3179
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:35:07 -
[14] - Quote
Magic teleporters transporting all your stuff to the next nearest npc station sounds like the sort of thing that could be hilariously exploitable - blow up your own structure and get an instant ship cache for the alliance in the NPC space a couple of regions over! (Yes we will do this).
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
86
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:13:31 -
[15] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There should be a difference between what is lost in the hangar normally, and what is in station containers.
The containers should be whole, with their loot inside.
There could be something interesting to this. Not necessarily saying that everything in containers should be safe. But what if there was some sort of vault storage in station. Something in station that is maybe safer than other forms of storage. Either auto transports to a new location or that locked container has a longer despawn time or something.
Obviously you would want some sort of downside, either size or perhaps limits on when you can move things in and out. IE it's locked in there for a certain amount of time. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
57
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:31:22 -
[16] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Another (potential) issue.
What about people who have unsubbed? If stuff ends up in containers scattered around, you could be adding lots of objects to the servers over time that may never (?) go away.
Said containers could be spawned only if the rightful owner warps to their journal entry. Or something.
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1071
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:37:12 -
[17] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Another (potential) issue.
What about people who have unsubbed? If stuff ends up in containers scattered around, you could be adding lots of objects to the servers over time that may never (?) go away.
Someone suggested an interesting solution for this at Fanfest, just pause their journal entry expiry times while inactive and have them resume when they rejoin.
CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1071
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:41:37 -
[18] - Quote
An option we are considering to provide loot even while having a safety for personal assets would be dropping some percentage of anything "in progress" like industry job build materials for example. So that along with the structure fittings should provide some goodies for an aggressor to take home.
Dedicated aggressors could also attempt to camp out the system to prevent collection of assets from safed cans, especially in nullsec or wormholes.
Evac ops where big fleets form up to collect their stuff later on could also be a thing.
CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
536
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:51:59 -
[19] - Quote
Wouldn't this just reinforce what alliances already do and put caches in NPC stations at the first sign of? Or do you plan on allowing us to blow up NPC stations as well?
Also consider legacy items - like many I have a ton of stuff in different stations around null and never had to consider that one day the whole mechanics would change and there is no chance with the current space aids mechanics of me ever getting these items out in bulk and moving them. Would you put a one time only plan in place to move said assets to a safe station? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2759
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:52:14 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:An option we are considering to provide loot even while having a safety for personal assets would be dropping some percentage of anything "in progress" like industry job build materials for example. So that along with the structure fittings should provide some goodies for an aggressor to take home.
Dedicated aggressors could also attempt to camp out the system to prevent collection of assets from safed cans, especially in nullsec or wormholes.
Evac ops where big fleets form up to collect their stuff later on could also be a thing. You could have the items roll for drops more than once, first time is for the original owner, second time determines if any of the loot the owner doesn't get is distributed as dropped loot.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
287
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:08:40 -
[21] - Quote
No destroy all the items! Let the victors take the spoils! Let us hear the lamentation of their exotic dancers!
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: this change does not Support or enhance gameplay, it removes gameplay options and endangers assets owned by players when they may not even be logged in. which is entirely unfair.
CCP changed my ship roles while I was away, its unfair. The new meta is ishtars when I trained for xyz, its unfair. New crimewatch meant I got killed in high sec, its unfair. EVE is unfair, deal with it B)
I like the planetary launch idea, though an alternative is to simply transfer the items to the next alliance station, if there is NO next alliance station then it is all destroyed, if the last station is destroyed. People should be podded when inside a station when destroyed too even if offline, we no longer have clone costs anymore so it seems feasible :D |
Literally Space Moses
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
151
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:31:25 -
[22] - Quote
The planetary launch thing is probably the best mechanic. Just say give the players a month or two to gather their stuff, then let it be scanned out by anyone. Split up the pods into different categories, and have multiple lauches. So like one launch has my machariel, one has my titan BPO, one has a carrier, one has 1m m^3 of trit. I can say, warp to the BPO in an inty and retrieve it without putting everything at risk. Then later i can grab the carrier, use it to grab the mach, and jump out. After a month, the trit goes FFA and some dude scans it out.
#T2013
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Simsung Padecain
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
57
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Would it work the same way in wormholes?
I do see the reasoning behind these proposals, but i absolutely disagree they fit within wormhole mechanics/expectations.
Before I go into a forum warrior mode, would some CCP folk be kind enough and clarify that these mechanics are going to be applied the same way in wormhole space?
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Madeleine Lemmont
Divide et Impera DE
13
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:37:11 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:This particular thread is going to focus what happens to items stored inside structures when they blow up (or end up captured) in a blaze of glorious space explosions. I'm really excited to see the structures work in space.
But maybe I should ask my favorite carebear questions at this place.
Which thoughts have made about structures and their safety in HiSec? I know, nothing is safe finally. Should they be able to blow up at once or running a reinforced mode?
Under which circumstances I'm allowed to build structures in Hisec or "NPC sovereignity" areas? Does it works with security status and/or faction standing? What would me prevent from "item destruction wardecs"? It makes no sense to own expensive structures only to provide destructable items for wardeccers.
Are highsec structures in general limited to PvP alliances or corps who are protected by them who are online 24x7, like POCOs yet? Or should they are possible for everybody easily to flood the highsec with?
Would NPC stations become destructable? Should I move my stuff around every week? This could be a reason to quit for me. Promised.
Love and fear run hand in hand... |
thatonepersone
Son's of Plunder The Marmite Collective
13
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:39:53 -
[25] - Quote
All three options are bad. If i go into a worm hole and siege somebodys pos, i should get all of the loot not just a couple of rigs.. If im at war with somebody in highsec and i blap the tower, i should get the loot. There 50-100 bill of loot shouldn't be safe inside there 1-2bill tower. Now if the only place the safe loot feature was on XL towers in null, i would be fine with it. Otherwise, there is not enough risk. |
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force The Kadeshi
181
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:43:03 -
[26] - Quote
My Alliance has eight doctrines. That's probably about average for coalition-based alliances. Of those doctrines, four have alternate fits. Two are Caps. I also own a Dreadnought (like many null sec people).
- I go on holiday for two weeks, lying on a beach somewhere. I'm still subscribing to the game therefore I'm still technically an active account but I'm away from the game for legitimate real life reasons. I get back, I log on and everything has gone boom, and the timer has expired. All my stuff has gone. Billions of ISK of assets are gone because I wanted to go on holiday with the wife and kids.
Why would I live in Sov-null?
- I am on deployment with my Alliance somewhere, taking the fight to enemy territory. Our stuff is attacked and we loose the timer. It goes boom. I've now got to bring in a freighter to haul my Caps, my Battleships, my Cruisers, my Frigates plus whatever roaming and ratting/mining assets I have in the area back to the nearest station/structure. Rather than being on deployment, having fun with my space-friends, I'm sat hauling my stuff day after day because I need an escort and/or scouts to reclaim my stuff. What happens if I don't own a Freighter? Can't move my Caps.
Why would I live in Sov-null?
Just a couple of scenarios. I can think of others. Let me be clear. I do not want total safety of our investment but having anything you dock in and store assets in being able to be destroyed is a unimaginably bad idea. The system works perfectly fine right now. I can blow up POS, POCOS, iHubs and TCUs but I cannot blow up Stations/Outposts. Why do you have to change this dynamic of the game? It works perfectly fine. In the new system we could blow up moon miners, scanning arrays, billboards, monuments, administration hubs and it will be no different to how the game is played now.
If you persist in this ridiculous idea of making people's assets vulnerable to ejection then forcing them in to a gameplay element they find about as fun as a poke in the eye then people will simply cease to store their assets in destructible structures and use NPC stations (where available) or simply move out of null sec altogether (where NPC stations are unavailable). These plans are ill advised and will drive people out of sovereign null. Leave the dynamic as it is, please.
11 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
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Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
87
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:49:30 -
[27] - Quote
Have you considered some sort of insurance option?
Although I suppose capsuleers blowing up your station is an act of (demi)gods. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1108
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Posted - 2015.03.23 16:05:51 -
[28] - Quote
First option is to have the structure turn into a wreck - fitted structure modules could drop as loot, while items inside the structure would only be accessible to their rightful owner(s), possibly through salvaging. Users docked at the time of the structure destruction would still be docked inside the wreck, but unable to dock back should they exit.
this is the only reasonable option - there must be a reason and reward for attacking a structure or whats the point? - if a station gets destroyed (turned into wreck) whats too suggest a launch would still be working? - for ships and items they should be hackable too retrieve for aggressors ( again reward for the effort)
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic, nerf sentries.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Lunivarus Pedel
Bladesworn
0
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Posted - 2015.03.23 16:19:51 -
[29] - Quote
Protecting all of the assets inside a base doesn't sound eve.. It would also make me never want to attack a starbase or any type of structure. Why should a corporation/alliance put up at risk billions of isk worth of ships that they could lose when the people they are attacking will have all of their assets protected?
If you want your stuff 100% protected you should keep it in high sec and never fly a ship.
However I can also understand the desire to protect people from losing 100% of their items as that would make people want to quit or to never put their valuable stuff in dangerous space.
So here are some ideas to hopefully make the attackers happy and make the loss not as unbearable.
The player gets a roll first for all of his or her loot. (enter some number) if they make the roll the stuff was successfully put onto a blockade runner and the stuff will appear in a station the player has assigned within 7 days. This plays into the blockade runner avoiding any and all gate camps, dscanning, finding the safest route etc. However you want to play up the lore.
Any items that did not make the cut then gets rolled by the attackers for (enter some number) chance to drop as the actual item.
If that roll fails then the item is destroyed and salvageable material is left over that can be collected and refined or sold as isk which would be a percentage of the actual item's value.
Players can buy "insurance" for any of their items now, not just ships.
If a ship is insure you buy yourself a little extra chance of the loot being rolled in your favor. So lts say the default value is 80%, you buy insurance this would bring it up to 90% chance you get the item back. However this insurance would come at the added cost of having to pay extra in the event your items are re-located. You 'prepay' insurance which is 'hiring' a dedicated crew that in the event of an attack they promise to get your crap to a safe haven. Once they do this, you are then billed for their time (distance the loot had to travel) and depending on the M3 (jump fuel costs). Your items would be contraced to you for this rate.
This way if you have 100 billion worth of loot on average you would receive 80 billion of it back (90 billion if you insure everything). And the attackers could potentially make off with 10 billion in assets as well. |
Antonia Iskarius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.03.23 16:27:19 -
[30] - Quote
This sounds like a hilariously bad idea if it is going to apply to outposts. If I want to unsub for a while, or go on vacation, or even just take a break, there is a chance I could lose my ships and stuff through no fault of my own? If that were the case every time I wanted to step away from the game I would need to evacuate everything I own in null to either an NPC station (assuming they will still in invulnerable), sell it, or stash it all into freighter/bowhead/carrier alts and log off in safe spots in lowsec? Sounds like an incredible hassle. Not my idea of fun gameplay. |
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