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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1978
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Posted - 2015.03.26 04:13:26 -
[121] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: *Rely. Before calling out anyone else's stupidity, check your own. 'Skynetting' has been around forever. Why are people bitching about it now? Answer: mostly, an influx of soft weaklings to the game. However, now people know what skynetting is, because of all the whining about it and know how it works, it would require just as much stupidity on the victim's part to not use scouts and check for carriers in systems they're traversing.
No, it's because skynetting before was so weak that it was barely ever used. However the change to drone modules meant that skynetting became dramatically more powerful since you could ignore all tank on the carrier and especially with jump fatigue people aren't going to often titan drop you just to DD you. Therefore skynetting became more prevalent to the point where it actually started to affect balance in a serious way. So CCP have done something about it.
Nothing to do with an influx of 'soft' people, all to do with changes in game mechanics that made skynet a much more powerful tool and the overuse of said tool then forced CCP to act. |
James Bessar
Voidlight Consortium Interstellar Solutions
2
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Posted - 2015.03.26 04:17:38 -
[122] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Lets say you trained for an obviously unbalanced game mechanic knowing full well that it was disruptive and poorly designed content that gave you a huge advantage with almost no risk.
Why made you think CCP was never going to fix it?
Well they never actually fix anything else....
But the point stands, don't solicit feedback if you're not even going to listen to it. There was an easier fix that made everyone happy, no Assignment within X-km of a POS (50 was the most common number I saw). Everyone lives, worlds keep spinning. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1978
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Posted - 2015.03.26 05:25:11 -
[123] - Quote
James Bessar wrote: Well they never actually fix anything else....
But the point stands, don't solicit feedback if you're not even going to listen to it. There was an easier fix that made everyone happy, no Assignment within X-km of a POS (50 was the most common number I saw). Everyone lives, worlds keep spinning.
You mean that fix that a number of people provided easy work around options to straight away, even if it slightly increases risk it still didn't stop skynetting happening. You obviously didn't read the debate thread properly or you would have seen all those posts. Or did you just ignore them because they weren't raging at CCP. |
Remiel Pollard
Against All Odds.
6554
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Posted - 2015.03.26 05:47:42 -
[124] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: *Rely. Before calling out anyone else's stupidity, check your own. 'Skynetting' has been around forever. Why are people bitching about it now? Answer: mostly, an influx of soft weaklings to the game. However, now people know what skynetting is, because of all the whining about it and know how it works, it would require just as much stupidity on the victim's part to not use scouts and check for carriers in systems they're traversing.
No, it's because skynetting before was so weak that it was barely ever used. However the change to drone modules meant that skynetting became dramatically more powerful since you could ignore all tank on the carrier and especially with jump fatigue people aren't going to often titan drop you just to DD you. Therefore skynetting became more prevalent to the point where it actually started to affect balance in a serious way. So CCP have done something about it. Nothing to do with an influx of 'soft' people, all to do with changes in game mechanics that made skynet a much more powerful tool and the overuse of said tool then forced CCP to act.
Arguments about whether it's OP or not aside because that's not what I was arguing against. I'm for a solution, but once again, what they did about it was unnecessary. If my suggested solution was not enough, then you just laid out the alternative and/or supplement to that solution - reverse the changes to drone modules as they affect carriers. Bottom line, nerfing fighter warp was ridiculous. For the record, I agree that it's OP, but the solution was stupid.
And yes, there has indeed been an influx of weaklings, I meet a dozen in game every day when same time last year, I'd be lucky to come across a whiner per three or four systems I traversed. The attitude of many a new player these days is "don't make me do stuff". That's why the game is going themepark with the nerfing of fighter warp and corp awoxing etc. That's exactly why. Because CCP is bending to the will of a new generation of gamers who think the game should be played and thought out for them and have little to no capacity or ability for thinking and doing for themselves. It's the whole reason why games, in general, are losing quality across the board. People are getting soft, squishy and precious, and not just in regards to gaming.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Against All Odds.
6555
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Posted - 2015.03.26 06:05:39 -
[125] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:James Bessar wrote: Well they never actually fix anything else....
But the point stands, don't solicit feedback if you're not even going to listen to it. There was an easier fix that made everyone happy, no Assignment within X-km of a POS (50 was the most common number I saw). Everyone lives, worlds keep spinning.
You mean that fix that a number of people provided easy work around options to straight away, even if it slightly increases risk it still didn't stop skynetting happening. You obviously didn't read the debate thread properly or you would have seen all those posts. Or did you just ignore them because they weren't raging at CCP.
This is what I'm talking about. Why is it up to CCP in the first place to stop skynetting happening instead of the players to figure it out with the tools at their disposal? You can dismiss this question with "it's impossible because [insert reason here]" but I propose that dismissal would just prove my point, and weaklings are just not thinking hard enough.
For the record, we had a skynetter when I was last in Khanid lowsec. We found his POS, watched his patterns to see if he had any long periods during the week where he was offline, and found one in which to RF his pos and take it down before he could get his carrier out. He logged in a few days later right next to a tackle we'd left where the POS died, and killed his carrier. I'm sure they won't all be as careless as this guy, but don't even try to tell me it's not possible because my response to that will always be, you aren't trying hard enough.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
988
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Posted - 2015.03.26 09:41:04 -
[126] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:James Bessar wrote: Well they never actually fix anything else....
But the point stands, don't solicit feedback if you're not even going to listen to it. There was an easier fix that made everyone happy, no Assignment within X-km of a POS (50 was the most common number I saw). Everyone lives, worlds keep spinning.
You mean that fix that a number of people provided easy work around options to straight away, even if it slightly increases risk it still didn't stop skynetting happening. You obviously didn't read the debate thread properly or you would have seen all those posts. Or did you just ignore them because they weren't raging at CCP.
In combination with some tweaking to fighter weapon sig/target sig damage scaling that would have effectively put an end to the impact of skynet on smaller roaming setups without completely destroying fighters in other uses.
As you mentioned skynet was never a thing when fighters struggled to hit anything sub battleship sized - skynet was broken because the combination of tracking enhancement, weapon range and speed possible when a carrier didn't have to use slots for anything but drone upgrade modules meant they could negate almost any degree of pilot skill on the part of the target with the carrier pilot able to make themselves all but immune to repercussion if they weren't lazy and/or stupid. Worst case we should have been looking at fighters losing all bonuses when delegated - an ugly fix but atleast left them somewhat usable outside of skynet. |
Ashlar Maidstone
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
168
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:17:30 -
[127] - Quote
The fact of my getting ready to go into carriers next is with the fighter drones being nerfed into the ground means I no longer have anything to train for now except maybe some tech 2 ships, thanks CCP for ruining that part of advancement to the next level. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
267
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:20:03 -
[128] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:The fact of my getting ready to go into carriers next is with the fighter drones being nerfed into the ground means I no longer have anything to train for now except maybe some tech 2 ships, thanks CCP for ruining that part of advancement to the next level.
you dont deserve a carrier if thats the only use you can see carriers having, advancing is not sitting on a pos with your fighters assigned across the map to a frigate
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
312
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:32:07 -
[129] - Quote
Kopis Bessar wrote:Yeah, I'm loving that CCP had a whole thread discussion soliciting feedback on the proposed changes just so they could ignore all the pilots and go ahead with their asinine "fix" for everything...
Let's not worry about the fact high-sec is basically just gank-central that's killing new-players attempting to trade (and making them rage-quit), no lets target all the happy veteran pilots and screw them out of training time by killing off something that could have just been tweaked, so that all the veterans are just as pissed off as everyone else and also want to quit paying us to develop anything again ever.
screw us, screw you CCP.
Dude, show us the source of your facts.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
988
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:45:31 -
[130] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote: Dude, show us the source of your facts.
I dunno about facts but I'd say it a fair factor - I've tried to get a few people into eve IRL - one undocked with PLEX (despite all my advice) and was ganked and quit because of it (I found out later his corp set him up) and another had his retrievers suicide ganked multiple times within a short time and quit. I'm not really sure how to balance that though as having highsec risk free would be pretty meh as well.
As I a veteran player and having put a significant amount of investment into this game over the years I do find the way fighters were handled (something that took a lot of training and so on until I came to be able to fully use those capabilities) and without any real dialogue over the changes really really poor with the result I can't justify investing any more effort into this game as its likely to go to nothing on the snap of a developer's finger without any real say in the matter - I can understand sometimes things need to be changed but something like this should be in a much better managed way. |
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Ashlar Maidstone
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
170
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Posted - 2015.03.30 02:13:50 -
[131] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Ashlar Maidstone wrote:The fact of my getting ready to go into carriers next is with the fighter drones being nerfed into the ground means I no longer have anything to train for now except maybe some tech 2 ships, thanks CCP for ruining that part of advancement to the next level. you dont deserve a carrier if thats the only use you can see carriers having, advancing is not sitting on a pos with your fighters assigned across the map to a frigate
Well, thats true but I was also going to train for I think its called "Triage"? And maybe transport, BUT at any rate the whole thing went out "The Door" so to speak.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
525
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:53:15 -
[132] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:Cry more?
Some time ago it was posited that npc corp members couldn't post outside of new players and GD and this quoted post is great example of why.
OP you ride on a very high horse and laughable you think that training is "hard" or that the "billions" on station eggs couldn't be farmed back in very quick order.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill and to suggest that removing fighter assist mechanics was a bad thing is a complete joke.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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FredVeee
AdAstra. Beach Club
0
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:55:54 -
[133] - Quote
should i buy star citisen and get rid of these kinda boring deaths while i got ****** off the game .. |
Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1075
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Posted - 2015.03.31 22:10:55 -
[134] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:CCP hates FotM and if you love following the crowd you'll have the worst time ever.
Underrated poast there. FOTM is usually game breaking, you can lead the way and have a bit of fun for a while, or you can follow and get wrecked.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Memphis Baas
276
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Posted - 2015.03.31 22:44:19 -
[135] - Quote
Didn't read the thread, but to answer the title question, "Why does CCP hate us?", because we whine all the time. |
stoicfaux
5549
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:12:41 -
[136] - Quote
Occasions frequently arise causing CCP to hate us and for us to hate CCP. Why? Because the make-up sex is freaking amazing...
Which reminds me, why doesn't the Nexus store sell lingerie?
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
326
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:21:08 -
[137] - Quote
Starry Enigma wrote:Ok, lets say you trained for fighters, long and hard skill train, cuz you now can be assigning fighters to an alt or fleet members. NO NO, CCP wont let you do that now.
What, we can't make easy isk?
Then again they want high sec people to go and invade null sec systems. If they wanted to hold sov, there are like hundreds of corps/alliances to join. Does CCP really need to revamp SOV for these little leeches?
With no major battles, no major ships lost, what happens to all those who do manufacturing?
Some small alliance spent billions on upgrades, members donated isk for eggs. They felt like it was home. Now a few grievers can come in and take it all away.
Nerf sentries, nerf ships, make jumping almost impossible with fatigue.
Used to be a good 50k people in EVE on weekends a few years ago, now about 38k. What do you think will happen now after these crazy patches?
If CCP hates this game so much, why not just close it? They're taking out so much which people worked for for all these years.
I'm very sad about most of these patch notes, tomorrow's and in June. I've been here for years and hate seeing this wonderful game imploding.
http://puu.sh/gWZ9M/26820bc619.jpg |
Veld God
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:51:56 -
[138] - Quote
Starry Enigma wrote:Ok, lets say you trained for fighters, long and hard skill train, cuz you now can be assigning fighters to an alt or fleet members. NO NO, CCP wont let you do that now.
What, we can't make easy isk?
Then again they want high sec people to go and invade null sec systems. If they wanted to hold sov, there are like hundreds of corps/alliances to join. Does CCP really need to revamp SOV for these little leeches?
With no major battles, no major ships lost, what happens to all those who do manufacturing?
Some small alliance spent billions on upgrades, members donated isk for eggs. They felt like it was home. Now a few grievers can come in and take it all away.
Nerf sentries, nerf ships, make jumping almost impossible with fatigue.
Used to be a good 50k people in EVE on weekends a few years ago, now about 38k. What do you think will happen now after these crazy patches?
If CCP hates this game so much, why not just close it? They're taking out so much which people worked for for all these years.
I'm very sad about most of these patch notes, tomorrow's and in June. I've been here for years and hate seeing this wonderful game imploding.
Welcome back in World of Warcraft where sometimes your Warlock get a nerf, sometimes your Rogue and whatever you are playing.
Adapt or die ;)
Mimimimi Blizz I want my money back thread -----> that way |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
861
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Posted - 2015.04.01 03:32:09 -
[139] - Quote
Grr Valkyrie stuffs. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
324
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Posted - 2015.04.01 12:44:28 -
[140] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote: Dude, show us the source of your facts.
I dunno about facts but I'd say it a fair factor - I've tried to get a few people into eve IRL - one undocked with PLEX (despite all my advice) and was ganked and quit because of it (I found out later his corp set him up) and another had his retrievers suicide ganked multiple times within a short time and quit. I'm not really sure how to balance that though as having highsec risk free would be pretty meh as well. As I a veteran player and having put a significant amount of investment into this game over the years I do find the way fighters were handled (something that took a lot of training and so on until I came to be able to fully use those capabilities) and without any real dialogue over the changes really really poor with the result I can't justify investing any more effort into this game as its likely to go to nothing on the snap of a developer's finger without any real say in the matter - I can understand sometimes things need to be changed but something like this should be in a much better managed way.
At Fanfest it was shown that when new players lose a ship they are subscribing more often than players who do not lose a ship. Your "few people" isn't anything else but a "few people". It has no meaning in the argument.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
100
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Posted - 2015.04.01 14:39:59 -
[141] - Quote
PhantomMajor wrote: If you had thought more about your comment before posting, especially as we had discussed nerfs to jump ranges, you would see how redundant it is.
Jump range/fatigue effects every one living in low/null sec, surely you understand that?
you do know that i live in lowsec right?
anyway, cry moar!!! your tears are delicious!!!
Just Add Water
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
290
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:34:26 -
[142] - Quote
Balls, get some. |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
670
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Posted - 2015.04.02 00:17:50 -
[143] - Quote
CCP hates us 'cause we keep talking about them behind their backs in a very public venue.
The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1005
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:27:59 -
[144] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote: At Fanfest it was shown that when new players lose a ship they are subscribing more often than players who do not lose a ship. Your "few people" isn't anything else but a "few people". It has no meaning in the argument.
Context - break it down by players losing a ship to NPCs, consensual PVP, non-consensual PVP, etc. and the "facts" may show something different (maybe). Ultimately what I posted before is anecdotal but its certainly been my experience with those players who are new to the game and getting suicide ganked early on tends to discourage them from sticking with the game more than it "inspired" them to get more into the game (as before I don't think having high sec as super safe is the answer either). |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
92
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Posted - 2015.04.04 01:08:39 -
[145] - Quote
Delete from the game SBU's & TCU's and stupid time zonning done deal servers go back to 50k. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
128
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Posted - 2015.04.04 01:33:29 -
[146] - Quote
They obviously don't hate you because of the changes they make. They are just steering the game into a new direction before the release the completely new sections of space they eventually will open up through player built gates.
Regardless though, most of us are aware that MMO's change over time. It came be frustrating to those of us who loved a prior version of the game, but ti's the nature of this live development beast. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1997
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Posted - 2015.04.04 03:33:21 -
[147] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Delete from the game SBU's & TCU's and stupid time zonning done deal servers go back to 50k. You will compensate CCP for 10 years of lost earnings when the serves go to 10k instead right? As everyone has their assets destroyed in their sleep. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
92
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Posted - 2015.04.04 03:35:48 -
[148] - Quote
Hmm not realy i would smile and unsub. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6683
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Posted - 2015.04.04 03:48:25 -
[149] - Quote
An amazing trojan suggestion
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
323
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Posted - 2015.04.04 05:48:55 -
[150] - Quote
They hate us for our freedom.
Or something like that.
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