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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:45:00 -
[1]
Im not in trouble yet but in les than a year, I wont be happy.
I recently had to upgrade to the clone for more than 23 mill SP. Its uncomfortably expensive at 4 mill but I can cover it ok. In less than a year though Ill need the 20 mil SP clone at 8 mill.
Here is the problem. Im a fairly casual player and my income is not increasing proportionally to my clone costs.
At around 15 million points you can max your income through combat means. At this point your actual skill and lnowledge are far more limiting and your SP. Once you can rat in 0.0 and run lvl 4s thats it and 15mill SP is more than enough if you stick with one race.
No you could suggest one of 2 things.
1Use alts. - Ya thats possible, but its also completely not what I want to do in a massivly multiplay online ROLE PLAYING game.
2Become a miner. - Its not for me I like EVE because I didnt have to do that.
The only real solution is spend even more time running missions or ratting, relative to fun time. It doesnt seem right that the longer you play the more you have to pay. but your rate of pay doesnt increase.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Kerushi
Caldari AeroSpace Engineering
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:48:00 -
[2]
even with mining low ends u can afford a better clone without a sweat, or, don`t get podded that often
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Marconious
Caldari Mega-Deth
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:49:00 -
[3]
Stop training skills... playing for 3years doesnt mean you have to train for 3 years and pay more.. If you want more skills then pay for them. ---
Sig not hijacked since 2004. -Marconious |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:53:00 -
[4]
How long should it take for a 15M character to make 8M isk??? o.0 |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marconious Stop training skills... playing for 3years doesnt mean you have to train for 3 years and pay more.. If you want more skills then pay for them.
If I stopped training skills I would just as soon quite the game honestly. In fact I definetly would. The changing growing character is one of the elements I am here for. Once I was good with Caldari ships I started learning Minmater for instance.
Its possible exploration and invention will provide me avenues of steady high income and this will be a moot point. But as the game is now its not so cool.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Torquemanda Corteaz
Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:56:00 -
[6]
the price of a clone for most 30-40 mil sp characters is pennies, I would know because i live with a guy who is at the 45mil sp mark... 16mil for a clone grade rho is nothing money wise to him. hell 16mil isn't a great deal of money for me
the majority of high sp characters have usually found some way of a steady income 2 decent lvl4 missions can make you 16mil
I don't see how a high sp character can see 16mil as a lot of money
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loony thezoon
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Posted - 2006.10.21 21:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger How long should it take for a 15M character to make 8M isk??? o.0
About 5-10 minutes at best, an hour at lowest possible intelligence level
No idea what the OP does with his 'limited' playtime, but it sure as hell isn't playing eve. Perhaps using eve as a chat room?
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.10.21 21:04:00 -
[8]
Mine for an hour. 30m in the wallet.
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
Xs 142
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Posted - 2006.10.21 21:10:00 -
[9]
To bring in one of my infamous analogies:
Getting SP is like aging (You live and learn and so forth) By no means does it seem like I'm going to be able to afford a better apartment just by aging, no, if I want a bigger apartment I bloody well gotta get a better job.
*Experience comes from age, money comes from work, don't get confused.
Originally by: Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.21 21:29:00 -
[10]
Why bother with a clone? I haven't bothered with one for nearly a year. A casual player shouldn't be doing anything that requires a clone. If they are then they should be able to afford one.
Remember that if you get cloned you only lose a few skill points. It'll set you back about a week is all. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
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sallyr
Gallente Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.21 21:34:00 -
[11]
well if u dont like having all that sp, sell your char and buy a noob with learning skills :D
that way your a really rich noob and frankly with all these bloodline chars they can out train us anyday
heck i reccon i could get to where i am now in 1/2 the time easly if i got some implants 2 (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Resistance is Futile Find us here |
Delnas
White-Noise
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Posted - 2006.10.21 21:49:00 -
[12]
I honestly can't remember the last time I have died when it wasnt in my best interest (Pod jumping, "Eh, 23j from my ships, lets go self destruct"). The random Intercept may very well get you now & then, but other then that its pretty hard to kill a pod if the person knows how to get out, and starts slamming "Warp to Planet" as his ship gets near death.
Pods are cheap, even for older players. Deal with it. 8mil is nothing ratting in 0.0, and anyone with an AF, or Battleship can do that fine.
**** White-Noise Nuff said. |
Cruachan Argylle
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.21 21:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Andrue Why bother with a clone? I haven't bothered with one for nearly a year. A casual player shouldn't be doing anything that requires a clone. If they are then they should be able to afford one.
Remember that if you get cloned you only lose a few skill points. It'll set you back about a week is all.
No, i've seen friends lose more than a month's worth of training from being podded without a clone.
This will only happen if you have high enough skills.
Please don't spread disinformation like this, its just nasty.
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Strikeclone
Caldari Starscreamers
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Posted - 2006.10.21 22:03:00 -
[14]
Its is for the O/P an unfortunate that most mmorpgs require a bit more than casual playing to get the most out of them. Eve is very much about rewarding player effort, you want to be a casual player then of course you wont have the ISK that a similar age pilot will have if hes been running high end missions will have. And why should you have?
Its like those noob pilots in the ideas forums wanting skill sto train faster or to have lvl 10 in every learning skill from day 1. They all want something for nothing, and Eve is not the game for these kinds of people, they should play WoW where everyone can be uber lvl 10000 within weeks if you don't eat or sleep or have a life.
Unfortunately you must play to advance. Its the only way and its as it should be.
Strikeclone "Peace through the application of superiour firepower" Starscreamers HQ |
Okkie2
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Posted - 2006.10.21 22:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ghoest
At around 15 million points you can max your income through combat means. At this point your actual skill and lnowledge are far more limiting and your SP. Once you can rat in 0.0 and run lvl 4s thats it and 15mill SP is more than enough if you stick with one race.
If you can either run lvl4's or rat in 0.0 you should be able to get that 8 mil in an hour. And if you do lvl4's in high-sec you won't need a new clone that often (most probably never)
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Galifardeua
Gallente Completament Tarats
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Posted - 2006.10.21 22:37:00 -
[16]
Ok people, not everybody knows how to make money. If I were to sustain continual loses I would have hard time keeping my top ship and my clones updated. In fact these reasons (clone price and my inhability to make money) are the ones that, combined, make me think about using GTCs if the needs arise.
That's one of the reasons to keep missioning instead of going full PvP. Fear of SP loss.
Have fun.
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Marconious
Caldari Mega-Deth
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Posted - 2006.10.21 22:48:00 -
[17]
Stay in highsec, in a noob corp. ---
Sig not hijacked since 2004. -Marconious |
Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.21 22:57:00 -
[18]
Quote: At around 15 million points you can max your income through combat means. At this point your actual skill and lnowledge are far more limiting and your SP. Once you can rat in 0.0 and run lvl 4s thats it and 15mill SP is more than enough if you stick with one race.
I recently passed the 15 million point mark myself and have to disagree. I have only invested in one race, most of that is in combat skills. Maybe with Caldari 15 million SP is enough but with Minmatar I still have a lot of skills to train before I get to that point. I have not even started on missile skills yet, only have around 300k invested into drones.
I'm certainly not rich and only play one character. It's very easy to make 4 million and I imagine that when I have 25 million SP it will be considerably easier still. Most of my ISK is made purely through ratting.
The joys of alliance warfare... |
James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde I recently passed the 15 million point mark myself and have to disagree. I have only invested in one race, most of that is in combat skills. Maybe with Caldari 15 million SP is enough (...)
I have 13 mill SP, fly exclusively Caldari, and I still haven't begun to dabble in t2 ships except interceptors , nor do I have any gunnery skills to speak of (can't even use large hybrids). Which is actually getting important for Caldari with the introduction of the Rokh.
So yeah, 15 mill SP is hardly I-WIN. -----
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Strikeclone
Caldari Starscreamers
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Galifardeua Ok people, not everybody knows how to make money. If I were to sustain continual loses I would have hard time keeping my top ship and my clones updated. In fact these reasons (clone price and my inhability to make money) are the ones that, combined, make me think about using GTCs if the needs arise.
That's one of the reasons to keep missioning instead of going full PvP. Fear of SP loss.
Have fun.
If a player does not know how to make money ratting they wont have a clue in PVP.
Ergo dont try to blow up players if you cant blow up dumb ass npcs. I have a noob alt on another account I run about 3-4 lvl 1 agent missions for the crappiest agent and make at least a mill in bounties and mission rewards. Then I sell any nice mods i find and make 500k+ more.
thats 1.5mill for mission you can do in a noobship.
If you cant achieve this level competency in agent running to earn your clone money either go play WoW, or learn to mine. Also stay out of wars and low/null sec space.
Damn it is this rocket science or what?
Strikeclone "Peace through the application of superiour firepower" Starscreamers HQ |
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Strikeclone
Caldari Starscreamers
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: James Snowscoran
Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde I recently passed the 15 million point mark myself and have to disagree. I have only invested in one race, most of that is in combat skills. Maybe with Caldari 15 million SP is enough (...)
I have 13 mill SP, fly exclusively Caldari, and I still haven't begun to dabble in t2 ships except interceptors , nor do I have any gunnery skills to speak of (can't even use large hybrids). Which is actually getting important for Caldari with the introduction of the Rokh.
So yeah, 15 mill SP is hardly I-WIN.
At 15mill you could be one kick ass combat pilot but like any character it all depends on where those SP are. My noob alt i spoke of in my above post has less than a mill SP and I own lvl 1 and most lvl 2 missions.
Strikeclone "Peace through the application of superiour firepower" Starscreamers HQ |
starship enginer
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:10:00 -
[22]
they where much more expensive not too long ago [i think about 9 months ago clones where made much cheaper] because someone pointed out that expensive clones makes high SP players unable to use anyhting but BS or plated/extendered HACS [this was pre capital ships]
and its true, with interdictor bubbles u have no choice but to die if ur ship pops, or be ghey and log off
imo clone price should be linear with SP not the current system where it is exponential
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Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: James Snowscoran
Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde I recently passed the 15 million point mark myself and have to disagree. I have only invested in one race, most of that is in combat skills. Maybe with Caldari 15 million SP is enough (...)
I have 13 mill SP, fly exclusively Caldari, and I still haven't begun to dabble in t2 ships except interceptors , nor do I have any gunnery skills to speak of (can't even use large hybrids). Which is actually getting important for Caldari with the introduction of the Rokh.
So yeah, 15 mill SP is hardly I-WIN.
I apologise for bringing up the tired 'Caldari ships are the easiest to fly' argument. I really have no idea either way, I only have 25k SP invested in missiles (for shame!).
The joys of alliance warfare... |
Warp Tiger
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde I apologise for bringing up the tired 'Caldari ships are the easiest to fly' argument. I really have no idea either way, I only have 25k SP invested in missiles (for shame!).
Rubbish I fly exclusivly Amarr frigates and the Amarr destroyer with 750000SP and I annihilater every lvl 1 agent mission and most of the lower end lvl 2 missions. Why because I have designed a pure combat character, I have tech2 lasers skill and though a week of "casual" lvl 1 running I earned the millions to buy eight dual light beams tech2 for my destroyer (which cost about a million too)
O/P just needs to do some low end missions, prehaps finding a station with lots of level 1 or 2 agents and just farm them for an afternoon, they take no time to complete and pose no risk to a cruiser or decent frigate set up.
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Warp Tiger
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde I apologise for bringing up the tired 'Caldari ships are the easiest to fly' argument. I really have no idea either way, I only have 25k SP invested in missiles (for shame!).
Rubbish I fly exclusivly Amarr frigates and the Amarr destroyer with 750000SP and I annihilater every lvl 1 agent mission and most of the lower end lvl 2 missions. Why because I have designed a pure combat character, I have tech2 lasers skill and though a week of "casual" lvl 1 running I earned the millions to buy eight dual light beams tech2 for my destroyer (which cost about a million too)
O/P just needs to do some low end missions, prehaps finding a station with lots of level 1 or 2 agents and just farm them for an afternoon, they take no time to complete and pose no risk to a cruiser or decent frigate set up.
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flangpoo
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Posted - 2006.10.22 00:08:00 -
[26]
Edited by: flangpoo on 22/10/2006 00:10:22 ib do think its steep at the higher end, or its just that the span of the sp that is covered is way to high. I have 30mill sp toon that hit the 16mill clone. Now... it has taken me a few years of playen eve off and on to get that high. No biggy I like the game, but.....
The clone is from like 30mill sp to 60mill sp, why such the gap? hell to run out of that clone would take me a few more years. They need to break that down into small SP clones with less isk. being all pvp i get poded more then I like but it happens. So I get poped pay the 8mill for the clone then I hit the magical mark and have to upgrade. 24mill spent. When I would sya just paying the other 8mill to get to the next clone would have benn cool.
but any way it would be cool to see the 2 higher end clones broken down into some smaller clones.
ohh and for the post on haven high sp playes its like pennies..... Not so for all. alot of us are not miners sitten in high sec
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Galifardeua
Gallente Completament Tarats
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Posted - 2006.10.22 00:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Strikeclone If a player does not know how to make money ratting they wont have a clue in PVP.
If a player doesn't do PvP he won't learn how to PvP correctly.
Originally by: Strikeclone Ergo dont try to blow up players if you cant blow up dumb ass npcs. I have a noob alt on another account I run about 3-4 lvl 1 agent missions for the crappiest agent and make at least a mill in bounties and mission rewards. Then I sell any nice mods i find and make 500k+ more.
thats 1.5mill for mission you can do in a noobship.
If you cant achieve this level competency in agent running to earn your clone money either go play WoW, or learn to mine. Also stay out of wars and low/null sec space.
Damn it is this rocket science or what?
Time is the constrain here. If you play for one or two hours a week then you don't earn much. Old time casual players are the ones who have it worse in this case.
And don't send people to WoW, please, it both unconsiderate and stupid. I like this game the way it is and my whine is that I don't get to play it for all its glory because of my own constrains. Oh, and I mine all right when I want to, thanks.
I, personally, don't ask for anything to change but for the consideration that old player equals plenty of isk.
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Strikeclone
Caldari Starscreamers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 00:53:00 -
[28]
Galifardeua I can do 4 level 1 missions with my alt in about 30 mins.
I getting confused about what it is your asking or moaning about?
You want to pay less that other players but yet earn the same ISK?
Or you just want a unilateral drop in clone prices because you cant kill rats and are poor and you keep getting killed in pvp and you cant keep your close up to date?
Clone prices make players feel the pain when they die in game. either they cost lots as you get higher in SP and/or you forget or cant afford the correct clone and you lose SP which is another hard lesson of Eve. It hurts.
And I am not sending anyone to Wow its just that i get a little tired of these kind of threads, posted by younger (in Eve time) players who whine that they cant do the same things that a 4 year vet can do.
Strikeclone "Peace through the application of superiour firepower" Starscreamers HQ |
Viktor Tessela
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.22 01:10:00 -
[29]
I don't care about the cost of clones. I care about the fact that if I forget to buy one, I could lose a huge chunk of time. I'd rather clones be autopurchased on death, even if it sets your wallet to 0. Get podded at 0 ISK and you stay at 0 and get your free equivalent clone.
The paranoia involved with forgetting to buy the right clone, etc, is what really drives me nuts. It doesn't need to be in the game - there's ways to keep the ISK sink of cloning without that hanging over people's heads.
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Galifardeua
Gallente Completament Tarats
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Posted - 2006.10.22 01:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Strikeclone Galifardeua I can do 4 level 1 missions with my alt in about 30 mins.
I getting confused about what it is your asking or moaning about?
Reread the last line from my previous post. Here you have it.
Originally by: Galifardeua I, personally, don't ask for anything to change but for the consideration that old player equals plenty of isk.
I'm tired of people saying that isk is no problem for anybody because it is no problem for them or their friends. Not everybody has the time, or the will, to play for as long as needed to cater their character's needs. It's tough for us, and I wouldn't like it if it wasn't.
People are too used as to see only what they have in front of their eyes, and if they don't see a problem, because they don't have it, they consider it inexistent. The OP has a problem, that for him is real, and people consider him weird and/or stupid because they don't have it. This is the kind of perception I'd like to change, but I know it's impossible.
So, in sumary: clone prices can (yes, really) be a problem for some people but I don't think they should change.
Have fun.
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