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ISO Quorra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:22:02 -
[1] - Quote
I came back to the game a few months ago and started to aim for T2 Ice harvesters, a mining ship and decided to do some solo ice mining to build up some slow but steady isk to get back into the game.
I noticed the ice belt and spawn changes, was like ok np multiple systems have ice, it spawns every 4 hours etc, should be fine.
Wow was I wrong. First I made the mistake of trying Caldari space, first thing I noticed was the amount of risk free cheap ganking going on has increased by a lot. Ok np I can work around that, im active not afk and fit correctly etc etc, not an issue.
Then I found the real problem with ice mining, solo farmers with 15-20 accounts, freighters, orcas and a crap ton of macks, retrievers, skiffs just going from system to system sucking up all the ice for themselves every 4 hours, logging off and then instantly logging all 15-20 accounts again after 4 hours respawn at the exact same second....
Your lucky if you get 2-3 holds of ice before it is all gone. So CCP have really ***** new players with ice mining and anyone that wants to solo mine or even small corps have been completely pushed out of the ICE industry and market by solo mega account farmers and ice belt changes.
Ok ok....maybe im over reacting? Maybe I just need to leave all the caldari systems behind even though it's the best priced ice for high sec...maybe I need to try the other regions and systems?
Same bloody problem in all gallante, minmatar and amarr ice systems. I scouted the majority of them and especially before and after downtime, all you see is either no ice belts left or almost gone with one guy in each system with 15-20 accounts, freighters, orcas and macks or skiffs.
I even started to add them all to watchlist and every 4 hours they all log on same time and log off the exact same second every time a system spawns, rip it out in less than an hour and move on to the next system or log off. This happened in every single region basically making it impossible to do any ice mining. I checked almost all the ice systems in high sec and this happens in pretty much all of them, travelled well over 100 jumps across 4 regions and same issue everywhere I checked.
One guy even has ganking alts, he logs on with his 10 ganking alts....ganks any orcas or miners, then logs on all his mackinaws and farms all the ice, switches back to ganking all other miners in area and back to farming all the ice, does it every day...I must admit that is pretty genius but still. Unless you hire some kind of ganking / merc alliance/corp there is no counter to this kind of thing. Even then they make so much ISK per day on multiple ice belts solo, they can buy 100 macks....lose them and buy 100 more...
So CCP can sit there and say "there is enough ICE for the game", yeah for one guy with 20 accounts....
GG CCP, ICE mining for anyone but 20 account farmers, botters, ISBoxers is completely gone from EVE Online.
In b4 locked for "ranting" and "mining sucks don't do it #rekt #tears"
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Falken Falcon
31611
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:29:39 -
[2] - Quote
What do you suggest, ban alts? and have you tried leaving high sec? There is plenty of ice in new eden if one is willing
Also input automation is bannable, so isboxing is no no. If you suspect that someone is doing that, report them.
Aye, Sea Turtles
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
263
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:30:13 -
[3] - Quote
Need to be able to gank asteroids if you ask me. If they can blast away at them with mining lasers I should be able to blast away at them with any weapon of choice, and reduce them to unrecoverable clouds of dust. |
Laken Starr
Mining and Munitions Ltd Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
74
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:38:32 -
[4] - Quote
While I agree that multiboxers are the bane of Eve Online...most of the problems listed above can be avoided simply by moving to nullsec. |
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
404
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:39:20 -
[5] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Need to be able to gank asteroids if you ask me. If they can blast away at them with mining lasers I should be able to blast away at them with any weapon of choice, and reduce them to unrecoverable clouds of dust.
+1 as long as they dont respawn after being ganked
I am the Zodiac, I am the stars,
You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars,
Queen of the night, swathed in satin black,
Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11076
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:43:50 -
[6] - Quote
15-20 accounts.... 10 ganking alts..... 200,000,000,000 ISK per day mining....
cough cough bullshit cough cough
Ever considered --just maybe--- that it is actually a fleet of different miners, rather than one guy with 60 characters?
Sticking your head in the sand is generally a stupid idea, but pulling it out and thinking you have intelligence is much worse.
So read the title. "MMO." Get friends if you want to get more ISK. Or do something other than mining. Or both.
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ISO Quorra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:51:49 -
[7] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:15-20 accounts.... 10 active ganking alts..... 200,000,000,000 ISK per day.... ...Miners.
I can contact you in game, give you a system with all the names of characaters/accounts if you like, you can add them all to watchlist then watch as the all log on 3-4 times a day every 4 hours on the clock at the exact same second.
Plus the fact one the guys himself freely admits it in local chat and even discussed it, he even went as far as to blame CCP for forcing him to do in high sec since he can no longer mine in 0.0 with his 20 accounts for whatever reason....
Just go look and you can see for yourself.... |
Garnoo
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
150
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:52:11 -
[8] - Quote
move to nullsec and mine ice in 100% safe space (according to forums - thanks to blue donut reality)... ...but no! youre too lazy!...
People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back --á EvE
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ISO Quorra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:54:16 -
[9] - Quote
Garnoo wrote:move to nullsec and mine ice in 100% safe space (according to forums - thanks to blue donut reality)... ...but no! youre too lazy!...
I used to live in 0.0 a long time ago but I don't have the time to play as much plus I did not like the changes CCP have made to 0.0 life. Which is why I took a break and came back, decided to give high sec life a try....
Also one of the guys who farms the ice belts with 20 accounts says the reason he is doing it in high sec is because he can no longer do it in 0.0.....because "CCP"....he did not explain further than that but I will ask him for more info. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
31
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:56:37 -
[10] - Quote
Here is the volume mined by regions throughout the year 2014 - http://i.imgur.com/ReUZfak.jpg
Covers all types of ores and ice, and all regions.
ISO Quorra, survey the gray areas. |
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Scira Crimson
Scira Crimson Corporation
13
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Posted - 2015.03.25 10:56:55 -
[11] - Quote
I also dont believe the story with 20 accounts in every ice belt... But still I would say that all this multiaccounting is complete BS and its just sad that CCP not just allows it, but also encourages it(with game mechanics like the cynos)! Basically selling the quality of the game for some extra money.
1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety
When you complain about the skill system, people will tell you "go back to WoW, because you are a brat and want everything NOW and intant gratification blablabla" but then you see those people having 2+ accounts with different characters actually being able to do all possible stuff ingame, basically baught their way to victory and no need for specializsation.
Oh, something probably most do not understand: Multiaccounting does not necessarily generate more Gé¼ for CCP but burden the beginner and solo player ingame economicaly more.
More multiaccounts -> more overall isk and items -> less value for 1 hour playtime
If there was no multiaccounting, beginner and solo player would accumulate a lot more "relative wealth".
As a soloplayer I ask myself: why play a MMO if every 2nd account is an Alt and most dedicated player are not in need of player interaction, because they can do everything themselves with their army of alts?
This is the main point: The skillsystem and alting makes player interaction and specializsation less relevant. And this is a big flaw in a MMO.
When people makes guides where alts are part of the main strategy, sh't already hit the fan.
And I am sure all this alt stuff will backfire one day. The growth of a game is dependand on player to player advertisment and if there are few player and mechanics which deters beginner and solo player, the player to player advertisment might collapse one day and have a snowball effect. |
Gardav
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:16:31 -
[12] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:15-20 accounts.... 10 active ganking alts..... 200,000,000,000 ISK per day.... ...Miners.
And this is one of the reasons why many Players hate Miners like me, because they automatically assume I must be multiboxing if I am a Miner.... and the way EvE is set up they in many cases are right to make that assumption, but not correct in my case.
I agree with you Scira Crimson... One Player - One Account - One Character played at a time. That's how I do it. I don't even agree with the idea of making a scout alt. If I want or need a scout I will ask a real Player to scout for me. It makes a Player make choices ingame some times far different than a Player with multiple clients and characters running would make. |
Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:22:08 -
[13] - Quote
I never understood why timer based mass spawning was decided as the best option for EvE harvest-ables, its vulnerability to be exploited by mass harvesting weather automated or not is quite obvious to anyone with MMO experience.
The tried and tested solution for mass harvesting exploitation used in many of the MMOs reviled in this neck of the woods is round robin random distribution, when one node is exhausted another node spawns in a random location at a semi random time. it also causes less load on servers since the spawning is incremental, rather than spawning masses of nodes simultaneously.
Round robin random distribution would easily nip mas harvesting in the bud by simultaneously invalidating botted/multiboxed fleets while giving smaller/solo actors a chance at the resources without having to alarm clock to hit the 4h re-spawn. Even semi randomizing the re-spawn timer within an hour or two hour window would make the mass-harvesters job more onerous and unreliable and can be implemented with a few lines of code. |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2241
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:23:52 -
[14] - Quote
Leave high sec. |
Shadowness
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:26:30 -
[15] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:Leave high sec.
Die in low/null. |
Falken Falcon
31614
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:35:17 -
[16] - Quote
Shadowness wrote:Kiandoshia wrote:Leave high sec. Die in low/null. I'd rather die in low and/or null than "live" in high sec, if you call that living..
Aye, Sea Turtles
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
925
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:38:53 -
[17] - Quote
Laken Starr wrote:While I agree that multiboxers are the bane of Eve Online...most of the problems listed above can be avoided simply by moving to nullsec. While avoidance works for the individual player, the situation still remains the same and is a detriment to the game.
Remove insurance.
This thread is the reason, why CCP should stop advertising any aspect of EVE PvE
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Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:43:11 -
[18] - Quote
Scira Crimson wrote:More multiaccounts -> more overall isk and items -> less value for 1 hour playtime
It's not so simple.
Someone boxing a bunch of accounts purely to mine minerals or ice or PI or something? They are an isk SINK. They buy skillbooks and jump clones and insurance that doesn't pay out and planetary structures and stuff like that, but all they create are raw materials. They not only increase the relative value of isk for a new player by being an isk sink, but they decrease the relative cost of goods for the new player by increasing the supply of raw materials necessary to create those goods.
Just because your one attempted career path in Eve isn't panning out in the way you want it to doesn't mean there is much of anything wrong here. |
Nidal Fervor
State War Academy Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:59:12 -
[19] - Quote
Ito Eto wrote:I never understood why timer based mass spawning was decided as the best option for EvE harvest-ables, its vulnerability to be exploited by mass harvesting weather automated or not is quite obvious to anyone with MMO experience.
The tried and tested solution for mass harvesting exploitation used in many of the MMOs reviled in this neck of the woods is round robin random distribution, when one node is exhausted another node spawns in a random location at a semi random time. it also causes less load on servers since the spawning is incremental, rather than spawning masses of nodes simultaneously.
Round robin random distribution would easily nip mas harvesting in the bud by simultaneously invalidating botted/multiboxed fleets while giving smaller/solo actors a chance at the resources without having to alarm clock to hit the 4h re-spawn. Even semi randomizing the re-spawn timer within an hour or two hour window would make the mass-harvesters job more onerous and unreliable and can be implemented with a few lines of code.
This shows how little you know about mmos. Random resource distribution might work in a theme park game like WoW. However, in a player driven sandbox game such as EVE, where almost everything is player made, the economy would fall apart if you just randomised the resource spawns. There's also the fact that when everyone knows where the resource is, everyone has a shot at getting it, that is not the case if the spawns are just random. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:00:02 -
[20] - Quote
And regarding your thoughts on 1 character per player? I agree to an extent about how a game is more alive when there aren't alts and multiboxing and such, though I personally enjoy playing multiple accounts while I build my own little space empire in my head (and ingame).
If you like this 1 character per player thing so much, consider making a blog about it. Embrace the playstyle you say you want in the face of so many others using alts and boxing and such. I could see that working out very well for you, if you do it right. |
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ISO Quorra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:05:26 -
[21] - Quote
Right on time...just after DT
Checked 4+ systems so far and pretty much all the same...
http://i.imgur.com/t9sB4Uf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/J3mdQqU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZrBw0Lq.jpg
Each one of those is one guy each controlling all those....they have no issue openly admitting it.
Go see for yourself, scout all the different regions in high sec, every single ice system. You will see similar pretty much everywhere especially before and after DT because ice belts after DT respawn even if its within the 4hrs....so before downtime clear belts with 20+ accounts....after DT instant respawn, do it again....$$$$....
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Nidal Fervor
State War Academy Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:08:29 -
[22] - Quote
ISO Quorra wrote:Right on time...just after DT Checked 4+ systems so far and pretty much all the same... http://i.imgur.com/t9sB4Uf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/J3mdQqU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZrBw0Lq.jpg Each one of those is one guy each controlling all those....they have no issue openly admitting it. Go see for yourself, scout all the different regions in high sec, every single ice system. You will see similar pretty much everywhere especially before and after DT because ice belts after DT respawn even if its within the 4hrs....so before downtime clear belts with 20+ accounts....after DT instant respawn, do it again....$$$$....
See my previous post, I have offered a simple solution. |
Brutus Utama
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
8
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:19:03 -
[23] - Quote
Thats nothing we had to compete with a 70 man mining fleet with a 10 man oracle escort an orca and a freighter all lead by a nighthawk..... all the same guy the belt lasted approximately 6 cycles before it was gone....
so we moved upto to amarr space was nice & quiet my old corp had the biggest fleet in the belt then the ice price dropped by about 1/3 making it not worth mining.... i have a huge stock of ice sat in a station i was waiting for the price to rise.... about 27k blocks actually because its not worth selling.... would be more effort to move it for the price i get even compressed it would take about 8 freighters..
find a new hobby to make isks ice is not what it used to be...i now live in null and make quadrouple to isk i did mining ice..
they tried to cut down on the multiboxing by restricting ISboxer but it only made a minimal effect as a whole you still get large 1 (real player) fleets mining everything... |
Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:23:29 -
[24] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:
This shows how little you know about mmos. Random resource distribution might work in a theme park game like WoW. However, in a player driven sandbox game such as EVE, where almost everything is player made, the economy would fall apart if you just randomised the resource spawns. There's also the fact that when everyone knows where the resource is, everyone has a shot at getting it, that is not the case if the spawns are just random.
I'm all ears as to how you think moving the nodes about in a belt, or even randomizing the locations of the belts, is going to destroy the EvE economy. I find its not wise to assume stuff, myself, especially since you don't even seem to understand how RRND works. I guess its more fun and easier to personally attack people who's experience you have no idea of* , trot off some tired sandbox/themepark/wow cliches, than you know, engage in an adult discussion, and make sure you understand my premise before getting all shouty.
*BRB, Im just going to polish my BAFTA and my C+VG awards. |
Lee Sin Priest
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:43:28 -
[25] - Quote
Using multiple characters is an integral part of Eve
They get more (with the implication that there is the law of diminishing returns in play) with the more accounts they get
This has been around since the inception of the game when people were mining in cruisers and realized that hey, if they get a second cruiser they can mine so much more for that fancy ass new raven (good ol' days)
The lack of resources you seem to be experiencing is not the disease of multiple accounts but rather the symptom, the disease being game mechanics
You literally warp to location, Orbit, lock and F1
The ice belt debate is up for grabs as the first solution would be:
Infinite ice - infinite supply, lowish risk, limited demand, therefore low prices but in the other hand you get to mine as much as you want regardless of other people in your belt, just remembering that it is a competition
the second being:
4 hour timers - Limited supply, limited time frame, lots of people suck up ice and leave none for newer players There is something you have to realize with this, since there is a limited supply that means at some point, due to the way mining works, you will hit a hard cap as to how much ice you can mine per hour, which means the only way to add more efficiency is to add characters, so either every one in the game gets limited to 1 character to rectify this, or you make more to combat this, as even if they werent all run by 1 guy, other players would make more accounts to fill the vacancy
then any other funky town solutions players can think of
I dont see where you are trying to go with this
Would you prefer No multiple accounts, (btw isboxer still legal, just no input multiplexing) - and subsequently crash eve No 4 hour belts (there is mining ore, yields more isk/h tbh if done correctly) meaning you want infinite belts where you can mine as much as you want?
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
266
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:48:48 -
[26] - Quote
Garnoo wrote:move to nullsec and mine ice in 100% safe space (according to forums - thanks to blue donut reality)... ...but no! youre too lazy!...
while it is fairly safe past the initial gate camps set by your fleets and the pacts of the 2 blocs, interceptor roams since "interceptor online" came about do like to go out and grief whoever they can find.
as for the alts when you go to the evelopedia I find this funny as the whole turn point of doing anything in eve is just to make another alt for it
Warning: DISCLAIMER: Although it is not officially supported by CCP, it is possible to run multiple clients simultaneously. However, doing this has been known to cause some problems with some computers. Use the following instructions at your own risk!
found here: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Multiple_clients
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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ISO Quorra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.03.25 12:48:49 -
[27] - Quote
Lee Sin Priest wrote:
The lack of resources you seem to be experiencing is not the disease of multiple accounts but rather the symptom, the disease being game mechanics
Oh I completely agree with what your saying.
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Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
232
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Posted - 2015.03.25 13:08:39 -
[28] - Quote
+1 for one player, one account. Maybe one day... one day... sigh.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Serene Repose
2488
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Posted - 2015.03.25 13:10:13 -
[29] - Quote
Ban the bot. Oh, we already do that. Identify bots as you see them and drop a dime on them. The boys at the CCP Precinct are always happy to know what's happening in the 'hood.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
308
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Posted - 2015.03.25 13:11:58 -
[30] - Quote
ISO Quorra wrote:scout all the different regions in high sec, .
There is your problem ...
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