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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
885
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:12:16 -
[121] - Quote
Wait, guys I will handle this...
MINER! CALM DOWN!
the Code ALWAYS wins
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ashley Eoner
464
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Posted - 2015.03.29 20:19:56 -
[122] - Quote
Musashi IV wrote:A few weeks ago I wrote a thread on this same subject. CCP ruined my ice mining corp because now the ice only last about 1 hour and you can get maybe 2 to three loads before its gone. As far as im concerned CCP ruined this game!!! So you want CCP to increase the supply so that you earn even less isk per hour? |
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 23:03:41 -
[123] - Quote
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure.
I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead.
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Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
11
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Posted - 2015.03.29 23:30:55 -
[124] - Quote
Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead.
why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? |
Lienzo
Amanuensis
61
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Posted - 2015.03.29 23:48:35 -
[125] - Quote
The demand for isotopes is where the strange economic disconnect is taking place. It's not even some vast circle. It's just a injection from one sector of the economy (ice mining) into POS and capital ships. It needs to be redirected. Perhaps to this.
The problem for POS is that isotopes are a limiting mechanic. Why do we even need a limiting mechanic? It's not making any POS disappear. Often it seems like there are more dead sticks in the game than live ones. Why penalize players who are taking risks by taxing their activity to support the most popular botting activity. It's another example of creating a positive feedback loop to reward avoiding player interaction. I really hope isotope consumption isn't a part of the new sov 5.0 structures unless ice mining involves a respectable way to get and keep players in space.
The other trouble with making ice the prime expense of POS is the effect on POS numbers. Is the number of sticks on R8s several orders of magnitude greater than on R32s? The big trouble there is lack of demand for the R8 products. If it was they who produced the capital ship fuel, things would be a lot more interesting in that arena.
Capital ships are their own ball of yarn. Less isotope fuel is being used now than ever. I'm surprised there hasn't been a collapse in isotope prices. If strictly industrial ships used ice isotopes for their cyno capability, it would kinda make sense and be pretty balanced. I've kicked around the idea of an industrial cyno.
Currently, we go through a lot of hassle to build them, and then they are pretty much independent once they are born. It's even harder to strike at their logistics chains than it is to strike at caps, and even those few opportunities have declined with the projections changes. To be fair, those have been pretty necessary. If caps are tied to sov structures, then they should be continually dependent upon them. That would mean a switchover from isotopes, to something derived from new structures, or anything which produces conflict. The bulk of building materials for capital ships should be coming from low end moons. Beyond that, modules need charges made from low ends, and they need to get their heat damage or structure repairs from structures and from materials derived from them. Fozziesov makes logging off expensive, but it doesn't tie anything expensive to sov, and that's a major disconnect that established players will exploit.
What's the future of Ice though? Well it needs to depend on investment, and investments need to be attackable, and that means the new structures. Your noobcorp multiboxer can't do much if he can't anchor refining installations, or those which will seek out or spawn ice signatures. An even better solution would be procedural generation to allow exploration starting at system belts, allowing people to find all sorts of things, even things for which they were not looking.
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Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.03.30 07:17:14 -
[126] - Quote
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems?
Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. |
ashley Eoner
466
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 14:34:10 -
[127] - Quote
Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. So what's your solution then? More ice wouldn't mean more isk for you. Most functions of isboxer outside of using it as a glorified window management software is banned.
This is eve htfu and fight for what you want. Otherwise go run missions. |
Noragli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
84
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 14:34:24 -
[128] - Quote
Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead.
Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine? |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
860
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 20:34:13 -
[129] - Quote
You do understand the paradox of your complaint, right OP?
If they dump Ice belts out so you can Ice mine your little rump off, the mega fleets will do so as well, the prices will bottom out and you will have something new to complain about. If you had come in saying you wanted to mine your own Ice to augment your Industrial game I could have appreciated that but you seem to present an idea that you want to do it for income.
It has been parroted 40 million times, you can mine Dense Veldspar, sell it and get more Ice material or make more ISK/ hr and you always could. There really is absolutely, unequivocally, no reason to mine Ice in High Sec. Go mine something else. Anything else. You are playing an EVE that has been dead for two years. |
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 21:36:14 -
[130] - Quote
Noragli wrote:Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then?
Troll some more. |
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Noragli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
84
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Posted - 2015.03.30 23:27:55 -
[131] - Quote
Brian Harrelstein wrote:Noragli wrote:Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? Troll some more.
You're the troll. These mega fleets who show up and target every roid you mine and "force you out of the belt" don't exist. A solo miner can get a good 2 hours of mining per spawn, sometimes 3 hours, and up to 4 hours is possible in certain systems. You're just jealous of guys who get more ice than you because your solo barge can't out mine multiple people. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3250
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 23:55:13 -
[132] - Quote
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? As all the spawns happen at the same time (right at the end of downtime) each day, they tend to get in lock-step. If one system has fewer miners, and lasts longer, miners shift to it. The end result is all belts have about the same number of miners, and all deplete at about the same time. Result: Once your belt is gone, there is little use going to another, as its gone too.
The solution would be to have the 4 hour timer stretch across down time. But then we get another player behavior: Locust fleets. These would be when all the miners end up flying from system to system, all in a big group (not necessarily cooperating) and scooping up each belt in turn. It would just be that unless you follow the crowd, you get no ice at all.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
12
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 00:32:34 -
[133] - Quote
Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities.
sorry but three systems is does not a "try" make so it was not an "assumption" it was a observation. the fact that I am mining ice right now with a grand total of 11 other ships in the belt spread across at least 3 fleets shows that all of you pushing this agenda have put forward zero effort PERIOD you all want a multi billion ISK per month income handed to you well guess what? that aint going to happen EVE has a "competitive" player based economy so when I read your comments all I see is "working as intended" |
Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
12
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 00:51:12 -
[134] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? As all the spawns happen at the same time (right at the end of downtime) each day, they tend to get in lock-step. If one system has fewer miners, and lasts longer, miners shift to it. The end result is all belts have about the same number of miners, and all deplete at about the same time. Result: Once your belt is gone, there is little use going to another, as its gone too. The solution would be to have the 4 hour timer stretch across down time. But then we get another player behavior: Locust fleets. These would be when all the miners end up flying from system to system, all in a big group (not necessarily cooperating) and scooping up each belt in turn. It would just be that unless you follow the crowd, you get no ice at all.
blablabla " I cant be bothered to move away from the high traffic systems" CCP change game mechanics I cant compete in an actual competitive environment because :effort: |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1377
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 01:05:18 -
[135] - Quote
Noragli wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine? Where are they lasting 2-3 hours routinely? I'm not in the majority of ice belts admittedly but I've not seen any last that long even on off peak times. Or is this primarily non-highsec belts? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1377
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 01:10:36 -
[136] - Quote
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. sorry but three systems is does not a "try" make so it was not an "assumption" it was a observation. the fact that I am mining ice right now with a grand total of 11 other ships in the belt spread across at least 3 fleets shows that all of you pushing this agenda have put forward zero effort PERIOD you all want a multi billion ISK per month income handed to you well guess what? that aint going to happen EVE has a "competitive" player based economy so when I read your comments all I see is "working as intended" That actually proves nothing except your playtime happening to fall within availability of the ice spawns. If indeed you are routinely able to get it then your evidence falls against you claim in that you are somehow competing for it and just suggests you happen to be there when others haven't had a chance to deplete it. I too can get ice rather frequently, but am not so delusional as to assume it happens as a result of some great effort. It's usually check systems next door > If ice is there park barge, activate harvester and do something else for several minutes. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
273
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 01:47:57 -
[137] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:As all the spawns happen at the same time (right at the end of downtime) each day If the ice field isn't mined out, it will be in the same state after downtime.
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Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
12
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 02:34:37 -
[138] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. sorry but three systems is does not a "try" make so it was not an "assumption" it was a observation. the fact that I am mining ice right now with a grand total of 11 other ships in the belt spread across at least 3 fleets shows that all of you pushing this agenda have put forward zero effort PERIOD you all want a multi billion ISK per month income handed to you well guess what? that aint going to happen EVE has a "competitive" player based economy so when I read your comments all I see is "working as intended" That actually proves nothing except your playtime happening to fall within availability of the ice spawns. If indeed you are routinely able to get it then your evidence falls against you claim in that you are somehow competing for it and just suggests you happen to be there when others haven't had a chance to deplete it. I too can get ice rather frequently, but am not so delusional as to assume it happens as a result of some great effort. It's usually check systems next door > If ice is there park barge, activate harvester and do something else for several minutes.
the "effort" is in knowing which systems have low usage in all TZs and yeah I will admit effort is too strong a word but that fact does not negate my point it simply makes the OPs claims that much more pathetic.
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Hermanni Pursiainen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 06:13:03 -
[139] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Hermanni Pursiainen wrote:Mining itself is already a pretty ****** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety.
Mining is **** isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it.
Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort.
Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. edit: I am talking specifically about ore mining, because you started talking about mining in general. You do not understand how it works, so to help you avoid future posts like these, I will explain it to you in a short and simple manner. The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. When people ask for "buffs" they usually ask for ... .) Higher yield, because they think selling more means more money/hr. .) Higher prices, because they think that higher prices will result in having more money. .) both. I know I am repeating myself here, but ... The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. I guess it makes more sense the other way round. Everything you build from minerals is tied to the prices of minerals. .) Higher yield = more minerals/hr = more minerals sold/hr = prices of minerals drop. .) Higher prices = 99% of all modules rise in price = no actual gain in your wallet. I hope this helped teach you why asking for any buffs regarding the income of miners is rather silly, and also brought you a bit closer to understanding how the game works. EDIT: See ... the real issue comes from people only looking at the number, but completely ignoring the fact that numbers are meaningless without an attached value. Miners always earn the same amount of value, only changing when there is a shift in prices happening for some reason, which usually doesn't last very long. In the end miners always earn the same value, because there's a fixed ratio minerals/modules.
Yes, obviously mining products are the bottom building block for all industry in EVE.
Im not saying CCP should increase yield or whatever. Also increasing prices is not something CCP can really do, the market is run by players. Only real way to push mineral prices is to increase demand and that would mean tweaking all industry to require more materials. All in all it would only push prices of almost everything up.
Im saying mining needs a rework to be something you actually want to do, something that actually earns you isk. It shouldnt be something that people do afk with 30 alts and make **** isk by selling mining products.
We already have mining missions, but those are just stupid in general. How about combine normal mining with mining missions. You mine to get mining products to sell and isk/lp/standings for doing that **** in the first place. Could actually be something worth the time. Wouldnt upset the market since there would be no real changes in supply or demand and on top of that you would gain isk from an independent source.
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Noragli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
85
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 07:57:28 -
[140] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Noragli wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine? Where are they lasting 2-3 hours routinely? I'm not in the majority of ice belts admittedly but I've not seen any last that long even on off peak times. Or is this primarily non-highsec belts?
Primarily? All over hi-sec there are such systems, with fewer closer to jita, so just stay away from systems close to jita. It takes effort to scout out the best systems and if you just check 1 or 2 systems and pick one of those you can bet you are missing out on a better system somewhere else. I know of systems in gallente and min space that always last for 4 hours and up to 5 hours. |
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1377
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 08:04:18 -
[141] - Quote
Noragli wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Noragli wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine? Where are they lasting 2-3 hours routinely? I'm not in the majority of ice belts admittedly but I've not seen any last that long even on off peak times. Or is this primarily non-highsec belts? Primarily? All over hi-sec there are such systems, with fewer closer to jita, so just stay away from systems close to jita. It takes effort to scout out the best systems and if you just check 1 or 2 systems and pick one of those you can bet you are missing out on a better system somewhere else. Considering I'm nowhere near Jita that certainly has nothing to do with the times I'm seeing. If they're "all over highsec" I'd imagine the ones near me should qualify. That or all over highsec excludes most of highsec. |
Noragli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
85
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 08:08:48 -
[142] - Quote
I know of systems in gallente and minmatar space that always last for 4 hours and up to 5 hours. |
Rose Honey
Small Holdings Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 08:52:09 -
[143] - Quote
Falken Falcon wrote:What do you suggest, ban alts? and have you tried leaving high sec? There is plenty of ice in new eden if one is willing
Also input automation is bannable, so isboxing is no no. If you suspect that someone is doing that, report them.
Isboxer is not banned at all. You can still use it for a number of things without breaking any rules. |
Man Milk
Ugly Duckling Inc
18
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 20:19:54 -
[144] - Quote
A couple of suggestions....
1. Join/create a corporation with other players that becomes the fleet that mines out the spawn thus pushing out the competition. You don't have to go BFF style with them, you all want the same thing so fleet up, say a polite hello on comms & then mine away with fleet/Orca boosts running.
2. Try other activities. You never know, you may actually find something else more enjoyable. There are so many other things ingame that can be done solo if you really don't want to socialise.
Eve is only a game so don't get frustrated with it and most of all don't become obsessed with a fat wallet full of Isk if all you plan on doing is sitting in ice belts.
Peace xxx
'Fail we may. Sail we must.'
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Spinzel
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 20:43:58 -
[145] - Quote
I went to mine in a random hi-sec ice system not far from jita today. The spawn after DT lasted for over 3 hours and when it respawned again at around1900 EVE time there wasn't that many people again so overall a good session. No problem here, a system you're in is really busy, find another.
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ashley Eoner
466
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 22:36:23 -
[146] - Quote
Hermanni Pursiainen wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:Hermanni Pursiainen wrote:Mining itself is already a pretty ****** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety.
Mining is **** isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it.
Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort.
Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. edit: I am talking specifically about ore mining, because you started talking about mining in general. You do not understand how it works, so to help you avoid future posts like these, I will explain it to you in a short and simple manner. The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. When people ask for "buffs" they usually ask for ... .) Higher yield, because they think selling more means more money/hr. .) Higher prices, because they think that higher prices will result in having more money. .) both. I know I am repeating myself here, but ... The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. I guess it makes more sense the other way round. Everything you build from minerals is tied to the prices of minerals. .) Higher yield = more minerals/hr = more minerals sold/hr = prices of minerals drop. .) Higher prices = 99% of all modules rise in price = no actual gain in your wallet. I hope this helped teach you why asking for any buffs regarding the income of miners is rather silly, and also brought you a bit closer to understanding how the game works. EDIT: See ... the real issue comes from people only looking at the number, but completely ignoring the fact that numbers are meaningless without an attached value. Miners always earn the same amount of value, only changing when there is a shift in prices happening for some reason, which usually doesn't last very long. In the end miners always earn the same value, because there's a fixed ratio minerals/modules. Yes, obviously mining products are the bottom building block for all industry in EVE. Im not saying CCP should increase yield or whatever. Also increasing prices is not something CCP can really do, the market is run by players. Only real way to push mineral prices is to increase demand and that would mean tweaking all industry to require more materials. All in all it would only push prices of almost everything up. Im saying mining needs a rework to be something you actually want to do, something that actually earns you isk. It shouldnt be something that people do afk with 30 alts and make **** isk by selling mining products. We already have mining missions, but those are just stupid in general. How about combine normal mining with mining missions. You mine to get mining products to sell and isk/lp/standings for doing that **** in the first place. Could actually be something worth the time. Wouldnt upset the market since there would be no real changes in supply or demand and on top of that you would gain isk from an independent source. So basically you want CCP to snap their fingers and magically increase your isk income because you can't be bothered to.
There are many ways for you to make more isk and if you consider mining to not be worth it I question why you continue. Obviously mining is worth it to enough people or there would be ore shortages and possibly higher prices. Anything that makes mining "something that actually earns isk" means you've increased the costs of ores which increases the cost of minerals which increases the costs of modules while also increasing the costs of everything else. So overall all parts of and including the ship increase in cost so you end up where you were before in income relative to ship costs. All you managed to do is screw most everyone else over in the process..
Level 4 mining missions are good for +30m an hour while mostly AFK. How would you combine that with regular mining without making it silly in income? If you want to convince people you're going to need something more than vague pronouncements. Currently many level 4 security missions already have large stores of roids and most people ignore the rocks because the actual mission part is more profitable. How will you change that so it's the other way around without effecting the ore/mineral market and thus everything else?
Like I said earlier you should be pitying anyone that is mining with 30 alts in highsec. I'd dispute that anyone is even doing that anymore. You're probably mistaking a small group of people for a boxer. I know a few groups that look like a boxer when they are out mining.
Buy a t1 variation of a in interceptor and fit it like an interceptor with an ore scanner in the cargohold. Now go check a bunch of a systems including dead ends and such. Use the ore scanner to see what's available. If you spend a little time I guarantee you'll find not only a lot of ore that isn't being mined but also ice. |
Hermanni Pursiainen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 04:08:59 -
[147] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:Hermanni Pursiainen wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:Hermanni Pursiainen wrote:Mining itself is already a pretty ****** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety.
Mining is **** isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it.
Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort.
Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. edit: I am talking specifically about ore mining, because you started talking about mining in general. You do not understand how it works, so to help you avoid future posts like these, I will explain it to you in a short and simple manner. The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. When people ask for "buffs" they usually ask for ... .) Higher yield, because they think selling more means more money/hr. .) Higher prices, because they think that higher prices will result in having more money. .) both. I know I am repeating myself here, but ... The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. I guess it makes more sense the other way round. Everything you build from minerals is tied to the prices of minerals. .) Higher yield = more minerals/hr = more minerals sold/hr = prices of minerals drop. .) Higher prices = 99% of all modules rise in price = no actual gain in your wallet. I hope this helped teach you why asking for any buffs regarding the income of miners is rather silly, and also brought you a bit closer to understanding how the game works. EDIT: See ... the real issue comes from people only looking at the number, but completely ignoring the fact that numbers are meaningless without an attached value. Miners always earn the same amount of value, only changing when there is a shift in prices happening for some reason, which usually doesn't last very long. In the end miners always earn the same value, because there's a fixed ratio minerals/modules. Yes, obviously mining products are the bottom building block for all industry in EVE. Im not saying CCP should increase yield or whatever. Also increasing prices is not something CCP can really do, the market is run by players. Only real way to push mineral prices is to increase demand and that would mean tweaking all industry to require more materials. All in all it would only push prices of almost everything up. Im saying mining needs a rework to be something you actually want to do, something that actually earns you isk. It shouldnt be something that people do afk with 30 alts and make **** isk by selling mining products. We already have mining missions, but those are just stupid in general. How about combine normal mining with mining missions. You mine to get mining products to sell and isk/lp/standings for doing that **** in the first place. Could actually be something worth the time. Wouldnt upset the market since there would be no real changes in supply or demand and on top of that you would gain isk from an independent source. So basically you want CCP to snap their fingers and magically increase your isk income because you can't be bothered to. There are many ways for you to make more isk and if you consider mining to not be worth it I question why you continue. Obviously mining is worth it to enough people or there would be ore shortages and possibly higher prices. Anything that makes mining "something that actually earns isk" means you've increased the costs of ores which increases the cost of minerals which increases the costs of modules while also increasing the costs of everything else. So overall all parts of and including the ship increase in cost so you end up where you were before in income relative to ship costs. All you managed to do is screw most everyone else over in the process.. Level 4 mining missions are good for +30m an hour while mostly AFK. How would you combine that with regular mining without making it silly in income? If you want to convince people you're going to need something more than vague pronouncements. Currently many level 4 security missions already have large stores of roids and most people ignore the rocks because the actual mission part is more profitable. How will you change that so it's the other way around without effecting the ore/mineral market and thus everything else? Like I said earlier you should be pitying anyone that is mining with 30 alts in highsec. I'd dispute that anyone is even doing that anymore. You're probably mistaking a small group of people for a boxer. I know a few groups that look like a boxer when they are out mining. Buy a t1 variation of a in interceptor and fit it like an interceptor with an ore scanner in the cargohold. Now go check a bunch of a systems including dead ends and such. Use the ore scanner to see what's available. If you spend a little time I guarantee you'll find not only a lot of ore that isn't being mined but also ice.
Yes exactly, there are more ways to make isk than just mining. Mining however is such an important thing to the entirety of EVE. Someone has to do **** like this in order for everything else to be possible in game.
So why are miners the bottom feeders? They should have the same possibility for greater income just like mission runners, ratters, incursioners etc. Currently its not possible.
All Im saying is mining needs to be worth while. No point arguing any different.
Having a combined mining mission + normal mining setup would mean what 60m/h with it being half mining product income and half mission income. Mining product income again is dependent on the market so it is subject to change. |
Hermanni Pursiainen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 04:09:48 -
[148] - Quote
And that alone is still HALF of what incursioners make per hour. At least it would be a step in the right direction though. |
ashley Eoner
468
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Posted - 2015.04.01 20:18:40 -
[149] - Quote
Hermanni Pursiainen wrote:Yes exactly, there are more ways to make isk than just mining. Mining however is such an important thing to the entirety of EVE. Someone has to do **** like this in order for everything else to be possible in game.
So why are miners the bottom feeders? They should have the same possibility for greater income just like mission runners, ratters, incursioners etc. Currently its not possible.
All Im saying is mining needs to be worth while. No point arguing any different.
Having a combined mining mission + normal mining setup would mean what 60m/h with it being half mining product income and half mission income. Mining product income again is dependent on the market so it is subject to change. Because miners only engage in bottom feeding. Mining is the absolute bottom of the industry food chain. If you want to make more isk mining than invest a little time into producing a more refined product. Mission runners make awful isk per hour if they stick to doing level 1 missions. They have to upgrade their capabilities and invest time/isk into getting to the real isk making levels. So stop sticking to the level 1 aspect of industry....
They already have combined missions with mining in several security missions. Most people ignore the roids because they don't want to be bothered with spending time/effort. So there's going to need to be more than just put regular ore in the mining mission sites...
Incursion runners make a wild variety of isk per hour depending on contests/population/fellow fleet members/FCs/etc. I've been in HQ fleets where people shuffling in and out and some bad scouting caused us to only do about 70m an hour for a while. I've been in fleets where only +4b isk ships were allowed and still only done 100m an hour. On the flip side you can occasionally +150m an hour for well about an hour. Maintaining +120m an hour for long periods of time is difficult. Every little second of wasted time adds up quickly when engaged in an activity over a length of time.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2597
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Posted - 2015.04.01 20:46:57 -
[150] - Quote
Hermanni Pursiainen wrote:So why are miners the bottom feeders? They should have the same possibility for greater income just like mission runners, ratters, incursioners etc. Currently its not possible.
If you want greater income from mining, destroy the competition - all of it.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
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