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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
760
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Posted - 2015.03.26 13:20:29 -
[1] - Quote
Are there objective benefits to using DX11 instead of DX9? I usually keep my clients running DX9 because I figured it was more stable, but lately I've been testing it out with DX11 and it seems to give smoother framerates, although that's inherently difficult to quantify. I'm aware that there are no visual differences as of yet between the two.
So is there any reason to use one over the other? Is DX11 buggier? Does it give better performance?
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
234
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Posted - 2015.03.26 13:23:45 -
[2] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Are there objective benefits to using DX11 instead of DX9? I usually keep my clients running DX9 because I figured it was more stable, but lately I've been testing it out with DX11 and it seems to give smoother framerates, although that's inherently difficult to quantify. I'm aware that there are no visual differences as of yet between the two.
So is there any reason to use one over the other? Is DX11 buggier? Does it give better performance?
With dx11 my vlc (with video running) keeps crashing when tabbing into eve. I also feel like dx11 gives me less fps ... but I have a fairly low level graphics card so ... |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
760
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Posted - 2015.03.26 13:25:43 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, actually, as part of replies could you state what your graphics card and OS are? I have a GTX 860M on Windows 8.1.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Falken Falcon
31625
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Posted - 2015.03.26 13:36:16 -
[4] - Quote
In a nutshell dx11 can make everything look better (Ssao, tesselation, etc). It also gives multi-threaded rendering so it can use your good hardware better. That with hit to fps usually
Aye, Sea Turtles
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe
399758
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Posted - 2015.03.26 13:38:34 -
[5] - Quote
I have not had any problems with DX11 myself. And yeah it does improve performance a little bit.
Windows 8.1 GTX980
Falken Falcon wrote:In a nutshell dx11 can make everything look better (Ssao, tesselation, etc). It also gives multi-threaded rendering so it can use your good hardware better. That with hit to fps usually
Eve has none of these things.
You can win Eve by not posting on the forums.
My Fanclub
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9176
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Posted - 2015.03.26 13:43:17 -
[6] - Quote
Lower end older machines like my old laptop seem to crash the client with dx11, I don't know what that's about but I know it's a widespread thing, almost everyone I have played with has had that issue at some point, or at least complained about it. since getting a semi decent card in my home pc ,(i previously had a crisp packet with fan taped to it in the slot ) iv been getting some better frame rates, though it can get sketchy after a patch goes live . I can't actually tell you anything definitive but it seems a bit better with 11,.might be conformation bias though. Win 8.1 (msi) amd r9 280
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
762
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Posted - 2015.03.26 20:10:28 -
[7] - Quote
So apparently my Mumble overlay doesn't work with DX11. |
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe
399783
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Posted - 2015.03.26 20:44:14 -
[8] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:So apparently my Mumble overlay doesn't work with DX11.
No it does not work with DX11. Only downside to DX11 I suppose for people that like the overlay, I just turned it off anyway as it was always getting in the way.
You can win Eve by not posting on the forums.
My Fanclub
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2015.03.26 21:33:07 -
[9] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:I have not had any problems with DX11 myself. And yeah it does improve performance a little bit. Windows 8.1 GTX980 Falken Falcon wrote:In a nutshell dx11 can make everything look better (Ssao, tesselation, etc). It also gives multi-threaded rendering so it can use your good hardware better. That with hit to fps usually Eve has none of these things. Check again.
There's definitely Ambient Occlusion going on, but I don't know if it's (a variant of crytek's) Screen Space Ambient Occlusion.
I would guess, though.
I honestly forgot if it was the post effect button, or max shaders. The difference is clearly visible once it's turned off, but it turns so "normal" that it's often not even noticed anymore.
Anyhow, SSAO does not need dx11. And Tesselation ... geee ........ ... if CCP had stuck with the reasonable choice ... ... OpenGL ... ... we'd most likely have tesselation for years already.
I always love saying this part! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3216
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Posted - 2015.03.26 21:45:10 -
[10] - Quote
there should be no visual difference. DX11 API is more efficient and makes a few things "easier" for programmers. So it might run a little faster.
However, eve's bottleneck is usually CPU not the rendering. So just pick what you want. I have it at DX11 since day 0 and i do not experience any stability issues
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Aralieus
The Inf1dels
249
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Posted - 2015.03.26 21:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
So is there a difference between the two visually? My qosmio took a dump on me so I'm left with my old Toshiba laptop for the time being and the graphics card in it is pretty so old I'm wondering if playing eve with dx9 will increase my fps with graphics on high.
Not trying to take over your thread OP but someone answering my question my also shed some light onto your situation as well.
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
74
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Posted - 2015.03.26 22:59:56 -
[12] - Quote
Because of recently introduced performance issues, i just tried DX9. Got about 10 fps more(from 30 to 40+) while in Jita station. I'm running on the jurassic era computer basically - Win7, Core2Duo 3Ghz, Radeon HD5770 - so for people with better machines the difference might be not noticeable at all. |
Legion Masser
Rage-Machine
19
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:32:27 -
[13] - Quote
Well , just swapped between the two and noticed very little to no difference
but then again I have EVE installed on a PCIE SSD and i'm running
WIN 8 i7 3770K @ 4.6ghz Evga GTX Titan Black SC x2 ( <----- NVIDIA's Titans were cheaper and easier to get then CCP's , so I bought 2 )
Whether DX9 or DX11 , EVE's fps never stood a chance
GÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿó- Your Anger is a Gift -GÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿó
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1283
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:49:11 -
[14] - Quote
DX11 should, for most modern hardware, offer somewhat better frame rates than DX9. However, with certain driver, sofftware, and hardware combinations, there may be issues that switching to DX9 resolves.
I do not believe that we're currently doing anything visually dependent on DX11. The advantage is just performance. (I'll have to confirm this statement though, since I'm not totally certain. The differences, if any, are pretty small.)
Eve Solecist wrote:Anyhow, SSAO does not need dx11. And Tesselation ... geee ........ ... if CCP had stuck with the reasonable choice ... ... OpenGL ... ... we'd most likely have tesselation for years already.
20 years ago (when I started working in animation) OpenGL was certainly the far better design. Today, OpenGL's API is kind of a mess, and taking advantage of modern rendering hardware requires using layer upon layer of proprietary extension to achieve what DirectX exposes directly.
I've recently been hearing a bit about an AMD-originated project called Vulkan that offers a much more modern design. Sounds very interesting, and may provide a nice open alternative to DirectX in years to come.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Legion Masser
Rage-Machine
19
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:50:45 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:DX11 should, for most modern hardware, offer somewhat better frame rates than DX9. However, with certain driver, sofftware, and hardware combinations, there may be issues that switching to DX9 resolves. I do not believe that we're currently doing anything visually dependent on DX11. The advantage is just performance. (I'll have to confirm this statement though, since I'm not totally certain. The differences, if any, are pretty small.) Eve Solecist wrote:Anyhow, SSAO does not need dx11. And Tesselation ... geee ........ ... if CCP had stuck with the reasonable choice ... ... OpenGL ... ... we'd most likely have tesselation for years already. 20 years ago (when I started working in animation) OpenGL was certainly the far better design. Today, OpenGL's API is kind of a mess, and taking advantage of modern rendering hardware requires using layer upon layer of proprietary extension to achieve what DirectX exposes directly. I've recently been hearing a bit about an AMD-originated project called Vulkan that offers a much more modern design. Sounds very interesting, and may provide a nice open alternative to DirectX in years to come. AMD? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
GÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿó- Your Anger is a Gift -GÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿóGÿó
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1283
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:52:47 -
[16] - Quote
Legion Masser wrote:AMD? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo If it becomes a standard, it will be an open one with lots of participation from all the major players.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1686
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:54:13 -
[17] - Quote
The most common issue ppl are having with dx11 that can't be fixed by getting a better PC is comm overlay.
Which gets me wondering... Why don't CCP improve in-game comm so we don't have to use a third party program? The current voice come we have in game don't work half the time.
I hope it won't get deflected because "everyone worth talking to is already on ts/mumble/vent." |
Marsha Mallow
2069
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:57:25 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions Darwin. I really enjoy reading your responses even though I have no idea what you are all babbling on about (my toaster defies me). Always nice to see a blue ticker, but it's more interesting to see Devs chat with players like this speaking from their own point of view.
Benny Ohu wrote:
fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1283
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Posted - 2015.03.27 00:02:57 -
[19] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Which gets me wondering... Why don't CCP improve in-game comm so we don't have to use a third party program? The current voice come we have in game don't work half the time.
We do test the voice feature every single time we do a mass test. If you have cases where you try to use it and it doesn't work, please file a bug report explaining exactly what you're doing and how it's not working. Unfortunately, the fact that most groups use alternative solutions makes it a little harder to track down such problems, but it's a supported feature and you should be able to rely on it.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
763
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Posted - 2015.03.27 00:11:18 -
[20] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:The most common issue ppl are having with dx11 that can't be fixed by getting a better PC is comm overlay.
Which gets me wondering... Why don't CCP improve in-game comm so we don't have to use a third party program? The current voice come we have in game don't work half the time.
I hope it won't get deflected because "everyone worth talking to is already on ts/mumble/vent." The biggest issue with this is simply the fact that you just cannot exert as much control over in-game comms as you can with Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo. For CCP to code something that does would be a very big undertaking, and there isn't much reason to do that when the tools we have are more than sufficient. Another is the fact that you can't use comms when you're not logged into the game - if your game client crashes for example, you won't be able to alert your fleetmates to it. |
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2015.03.27 00:15:43 -
[21] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:sabre906 wrote:The most common issue ppl are having with dx11 that can't be fixed by getting a better PC is comm overlay.
Which gets me wondering... Why don't CCP improve in-game comm so we don't have to use a third party program? The current voice come we have in game don't work half the time.
I hope it won't get deflected because "everyone worth talking to is already on ts/mumble/vent." The biggest issue with this is simply the fact that you just cannot exert as much control over in-game comms as you can with Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo. For CCP to code something that does would be a very big undertaking, and there isn't much reason to do that when the tools we have are more than sufficient. Another is the fact that you can't use comms when you're not logged into the game - if your game client crashes for example, you won't be able to alert your fleetmates to it. "cannot exert as much control over in-game comms"
I don't do voicecoms, but I'm curious.
What kind of control would that be? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1686
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Posted - 2015.03.27 00:15:44 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:sabre906 wrote:Which gets me wondering... Why don't CCP improve in-game comm so we don't have to use a third party program? The current voice come we have in game don't work half the time. We do test the voice feature every single time we do a mass test. If you have cases where you try to use it and it doesn't work, please file a bug report explaining exactly what you're doing and how it's not working. Unfortunately, the fact that most groups use alternative solutions makes it a little harder to track down such problems, but it's a supported feature and you should be able to rely on it. Edit: Also, asking Mumble developers to prioritize getting their overlay working with DX11 is an option, if that's a consistent issue. :)
It would work one day but not another, on one fleet but not another, for no apparent reason. Relogging may fix it, or it may not, rejoining fleet may fix it, or it may not, etc. It's not just me, a lot of people have such issues. It only pops up in situations like public fleets running highsec incursions, because they're the only ones still using Eve comm. Everyone else in longer term groups use 3rd party comm.
Another thing is the comm is very basic, and lacks many of the features of third party software. The "not as much control" comment actually refers to lack of features more than anything else. Eve comm doesn't have to be as good as 3rd party ones, it just have to be good enough so that people who otherwise go without comm can use it.
Having working/workable comm in game would help get people out of soloing and into groups. Looking at text isn't the same as hearing a voice, voice is harder to ignore. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
763
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Posted - 2015.03.27 00:26:35 -
[23] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:sabre906 wrote:The most common issue ppl are having with dx11 that can't be fixed by getting a better PC is comm overlay.
Which gets me wondering... Why don't CCP improve in-game comm so we don't have to use a third party program? The current voice come we have in game don't work half the time.
I hope it won't get deflected because "everyone worth talking to is already on ts/mumble/vent." The biggest issue with this is simply the fact that you just cannot exert as much control over in-game comms as you can with Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo. For CCP to code something that does would be a very big undertaking, and there isn't much reason to do that when the tools we have are more than sufficient. Another is the fact that you can't use comms when you're not logged into the game - if your game client crashes for example, you won't be able to alert your fleetmates to it. "cannot exert as much control over in-game comms" I don't do voicecoms, but I'm curious. What kind of control would that be? Things like access controls, speaking across channels, whispering to individuals, muting people, kicking or banning people from the channel or server, priority speakers, no-chatter channels, etc. |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2015.03.27 00:53:57 -
[24] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Things like access controls, speaking across channels, whispering to individuals, muting people, kicking or banning people from the channel or server, priority speakers, no-chatter channels, etc. Interesting. Thanks! |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1165
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Posted - 2015.03.27 01:00:17 -
[25] - Quote
I have run EVE on a variety of hardware and operating systems, sometimes just installing it for people.
Never noticed a difference linked to Direct X
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
947
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Posted - 2015.03.27 03:45:07 -
[26] - Quote
Even so i wish i can enabled the mantle support for my amds.... Future? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
999
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Posted - 2015.03.27 04:13:50 -
[27] - Quote
they did a presentation on this stuff at fanfest last year. if I remember right one of the other main benefits is that DX11 uses less memory.
@ChainsawPlankto
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
407
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Posted - 2015.03.27 10:39:57 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:DX11 should, for most modern hardware, offer somewhat better frame rates than DX9. However, with certain driver, sofftware, and hardware combinations, there may be issues that switching to DX9 resolves. I do not believe that we're currently doing anything visually dependent on DX11. The advantage is just performance. (I'll have to confirm this statement though, since I'm not totally certain. The differences, if any, are pretty small.) Eve Solecist wrote:Anyhow, SSAO does not need dx11. And Tesselation ... geee ........ ... if CCP had stuck with the reasonable choice ... ... OpenGL ... ... we'd most likely have tesselation for years already. 20 years ago (when I started working in animation) OpenGL was certainly the far better design. Today, OpenGL's API is kind of a mess, and taking advantage of modern rendering hardware requires using layer upon layer of proprietary extension to achieve what DirectX exposes directly. I've recently been hearing a bit about an AMD-originated project called Vulkan that offers a much more modern design. Sounds very interesting, and may provide a nice open alternative to DirectX in years to come. I miss the good old days of Glide and Voodoo Boards...
With DX11 I discovered a set of hidden key switches that turns everyone naked. And no it's my secret...
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Callisto Helix
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
20
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Posted - 2015.03.27 16:32:28 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Edit: Also, asking Mumble developers to prioritize getting their overlay working with DX11 is an option, if that's a consistent issue. :)
Beta snapshots of Mumble have had a working DX11 overlay for quite some time now, the problem is that it hangs the EVE client shortly after logging into the game.
I've been bugging the mumble devs about this for over a year (ever since EVE gained DX11 support), in addition to submitting bug reports ingame and posts on the tech support boards.
https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble/issues/1123
http://forums.mumble.info/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1234
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322456&find=unread
If the CCP devs would reach out to the Mumble devs and help them figure out what's going on/get this fixed, I (and many many others) would greatly appreciate it.
I miss my overlay |
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