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Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
2
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Posted - 2015.03.28 02:41:14 -
[1] - Quote
"The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand." - Sun Tzu
Recently I was asked what a pilot would have to do to get started with Planetary Interaction (known from here on as GÇ£PIGÇ¥) and begin producing specialized commodities, and whether this is something that new citizens reasonably could expect to do. After going through the steps, I realized it is something that that new pilots could do relatively easily, and which may open a whole new part of Eve to some of you.
For the purposes of this guide, I will discuss how to produce Robotics. However, this guide should be general enough to be of use to a newer pilot looking to get into PI for the first time, or a pilot who has done PI but would like to produce more advanced (and profitable) products. The skills in this guide will transfer to the production of other products, although the recipes used will differ.
The skill requirements and initial capital are quite low to begin PI, even for specialized products. It will take only about 25 million ISK for the skill books and to set up the three colonies to produce your specialized product. The skill books are almost half of that cost, so those that already have started PI for basic products need even less of an investment.
Although some of you already may have done basic PI, I will assume that a pilot is starting from zero as far as PI is concerned. I am assuming relatively new pilots will be using this guide, so we will stick with high sec and close-in low sec. However, the same principles and procedures here apply to wormhole systems and null sec as well.
Recommended skills: - Remote Sensing 3 - Planetology 4 - Advanced Planetology 1 or 2 - Command Center Upgrade 4 - Interplanetary Consolidation 2 - These skills are ok to start. Training Advanced Planetology to 4 and then Command Center Upgrade to 5 are worth doing, but not necessary to start profitable PI. Once you have set up your first planets for PI, you will want to train Interplanetary Consolidation to set up more planets for a maximum of six planets at level 5.
Depending upon implants, you can train these required skills in about a week. Although some may disagree with me GÇô I welcome opposing opinions GÇô I feel the Planetology and Advanced Planetology should be trained to at least the levels I have here before starting. In null sec and wormholes you may be able to get away with lesser skills (ironically), but your skills at surveying planets for resources in high and low sec can make the difference between a very profitable and a marginal setup. Even if you were going to do only basic PI, you would want all these same skills, so if you are just starting out, you may as well start with specialized products. The skill books will cost you around 10 million. You may want to train the skills for Cloaking 3 and/or racial Industrial 1 if you have not done so, although they are not strictly necessary.
As we will see, although the capital and training time are relatively low, you do have to invest some time figuring out what you want to do, how you are gonig to do it, and setting it up. After that, the production should run smoothly without much oversight. This is generally the case with all industrial processes, I suppose. The purpose of this guide is to help you with the planning and setup, so those steps will be much easier for you.
In this first post I intend to lay out the requirements and general procedure. Following posts will discuss details of the procedures, and get into the particular menus to open and click. The menus are fairly easy to follow and standard for Eve, so you may not even need to read my third post.
Overview of the PI Process (1) Decide what product you want to produce, and figure out what planet type(s) have the raw materials to make the product you want. (2) Locate the planet(s) and (3) Set up your colony(ies). The colony extracts the resources and (optionally) processes them, and then (optionally) you combine the processed materials into more and more advanced products until you have what you want. (4) Once your product is produced in quantity, you export it to the customs office and pick it up for use in industry or for the market.
Like other industry and research, most of the setup and processing is done remotely, so you will visit the location only to drop off inputs or pick up finished products. Once the setups have been done, the processing should run with very little work on your part.
Deciding What to Produce There are 15 resources, which can be processed alone or in combination with other products to produce some 68 products.
Products are classified by the amount of processing it takes to make them. You use one or more materials from a lower level to make higher level products: P0 GÇô Raw Materials found on the planets, P1 GÇô Processed Materials, P2 GÇô Refined Commodities, P3 GÇô Specialized Commodities, and P4 GÇô Advanced Commodities. Today, we will assume you have decided to produce Robotics, a P3 product (aka a Specialized Commodity).
Using a source such as the Eve-Uni Wiki [url]http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Commodities[/url], we see that Robotics is produced from two P2 commodities, Mechanical Parts and Consumer Electronics, which in turn are each made from two P1 materials, Precious Metals and Reactive Metals (for Mechanical Parts) and Chiral Structures and Toxic Metals (for Consumer Electronics). Finally, each of these processed materials each come from a single P0 raw material: in this case, Noble Metals, Base Metals, Non-CS Crystals, and Heavy Metals.
To be continued... |
Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
2
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Posted - 2015.03.28 02:41:38 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved for part 2... |
Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
2
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Posted - 2015.03.28 02:42:56 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved for part 3 ... |
Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
2
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Posted - 2015.03.28 02:44:36 -
[4] - Quote
Reserved for part 4, altho I really hope we don't need this many posts! |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
512
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Posted - 2015.03.28 06:58:30 -
[5] - Quote
Google docs and pdf heard of those ? |
Kick Axe Blackwing
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.03.29 23:02:33 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks for the guide. Can't say I knew this even existed.
Since we're in the new players forum can you compare this to just buying/mining materials and then using them to manufacture your items. I mean the whole "find a planet thing" etc. etc. seems like a lot of added steps.
Thanks again
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4926
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Posted - 2015.03.29 23:30:59 -
[7] - Quote
PI was a part of the game I knew almost nothing about, even I can learn a lot from this guide. If I wasn't lazy, I'd set up planets. Thanks, Sun-Tzu.
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:Thanks for the guide. Can't say I knew this even existed.
Since we're in the new players forum can you compare this to just buying/mining materials and then using them to manufacture your items. I mean the whole "find a planet thing" etc. etc. seems like a lot of added steps.
Thanks again
They are somewhat different processes. PI is useful if you are starting with basically nothing - my guide on this forum to entry level tech 2 production recommends you have 250m in investable capital before starting the production process (for reasons I won't go into here, tech 1 actually needs *more* capital than that; I don't recommend T1 production other than ammo or small numbers of modules until you can sink 2-3 billion into it)
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
273
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Posted - 2015.03.30 01:00:27 -
[8] - Quote
Excellent detail.
Some pictures and links to PI introductory videos would probably help new players make sense of this wall of text.
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Memphis Baas
271
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Posted - 2015.03.30 02:47:23 -
[9] - Quote
Any advice on how to deal with POCO's and player taxes? "See what's there and what the taxes are" doesn't help much. |
Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
6
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:43:54 -
[10] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:PI was a part of the game I knew almost nothing about, even I can learn a lot from this guide. If I wasn't lazy, I'd set up planets. Thanks, Sun-Tzu. Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:Thanks for the guide. Can't say I knew this even existed.
Since we're in the new players forum can you compare this to just buying/mining materials and then using them to manufacture your items. I mean the whole "find a planet thing" etc. etc. seems like a lot of added steps.
Thanks again
They are somewhat different processes. PI is useful if you are starting with basically nothing - my guide on this forum to entry level tech 2 production recommends you have 250m in investable capital before starting the production process (for reasons I won't go into here, tech 1 actually needs *more* capital than that; I don't recommend T1 production other than ammo or small numbers of modules until you can sink 2-3 billion into it)
What Sabriz said. The main difference is you can start PI and continue the process indefinitely with minimal investment. Manufacturing is going to require substantially more investment to get all the items for your recipe. And possibly more time too, unless you are in Jita. So I would say PI takes less effort (and definitely less capital) to keep running.
However, my impression is most "industrial" processes (by which I mean manufacturing/research/PI) take time at the start to set up the process before it can run itself.
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Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
6
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:45:25 -
[11] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:Excellent detail.
Some pictures and links to PI introductory videos would probably help new players make sense of this wall of text.
Def a wall of text, Shiloh. javascript:insertsmiley('','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile-big.png') Let's consider this guide a work in progress, and I will supplement this. Thanks. |
Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
6
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:56:15 -
[12] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Any advice on how to deal with POCO's and player taxes? "See what's there and what the taxes are" doesn't help much.
If you could join the corp that owns a customs office and get a discounted rate, that would help. But other than that, I don't have a good idea of what else a solo pilot, esp a new pilot, is going to do about them.
In most cases, even as a more experienced pilot, I'm afraid you have to take the customs offices and their tax rates (and whether you can use them at all) as a given. The only thing I see you can do is look for a reasonable rate, and consider the tax as part of doing business. And the rates are significantly less outside of hi-sec.
Perhaps advanced techniques such as burning down a customs office and building your own or war deccing someone to get favorable rates can be addressed in an advanced guide. |
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
307
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Posted - 2015.03.30 04:59:15 -
[13] - Quote
Holy crap Sun. I didn't know squat about PI...until now. Very informative.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Xylem Viliana
Protomonolithic
264
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Posted - 2015.03.30 20:21:24 -
[14] - Quote
also worth noting for folks, trade skill at level 4 and customs code expertise to level 2-3 (think l2 takes a couple of hours) will if the skill works reduce the NPC tax added on top of the owning corp tax by 1% per level, might not be much but could be worth it for people who really want to try PI |
Euttere Geten
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:04:58 -
[15] - Quote
Count me among those who knew nothing of this before you posted, seems like it might be an interesting diversion. Much appreciated. |
Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
16
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Posted - 2015.03.31 03:46:17 -
[16] - Quote
Xylem Viliana wrote:also worth noting for folks, trade skill at level 4 and customs code expertise to level 2-3 (think l2 takes a couple of hours) will if the skill works reduce the NPC tax added on top of the owning corp tax by 1% per level, might not be much but could be worth it for people who really want to try PI
Good point about the customs taxes. However, the Customs Code expertise reduces customs duties only in hi-sec. If you are operating in low sec, the NPC customs duties already are reduced to zero. When you really get your PI going, you probably will want to be in low sec anyway. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
The Scope Gallente Federation
1577
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Posted - 2015.04.01 11:15:41 -
[17] - Quote
Holy **** man, I will be reading this later. I'll be picking your brain on how to set it up. If you want to set up in a wormhole together, let me know.
New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC.
Contact me for a free consultation.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Johhny Iron
Iron Dog Industries
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 18:47:01 -
[18] - Quote
Wow this guide was more helpful then bunch of online videos on yt or elsewhere.. i'll check it out once i reserch those skills :) Thanks |
Warmonger Simon
Wormbro Ocularis Inferno
14
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Posted - 2015.04.09 09:41:03 -
[19] - Quote
A question if i may about PI in WH. How this kind does setup(-s) sound
Extractor with 2x heads -> storage/launchpad -> 2x Basic making something like eletrolyte -> 2x Advanced's making coolant Second Extractor with 2x heads -> 2x basics making making water -> Sending it to same 2x Advanced's
Thoughts? |
Sun-Tzu Rollard
PERMIT REGULATORS
17
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Posted - 2015.04.16 18:42:50 -
[20] - Quote
Warmonger Simon wrote:A question if i may about PI in WH. How this kind does setup(-s) sound
Extractor with 2x heads -> storage/launchpad -> 2x Basic making something like eletrolyte -> 2x Advanced's making coolant Second Extractor with 2x heads -> 2x basics making making water -> Sending it to same 2x Advanced's
Thoughts?
That could work. However, in order to keep the two Advanced Factories running at full speed, you will need to extract 12,000 units per hour on average of both the Ionic Solutions and the Aqueous Liquids. I know wormhole planets have more resources than low sec or high sec, but you will want to check your survey to see if you are getting at least 12K/hr. Keep in mind that the initial survey may show that you are extracting that much, but the number may go down after you click "install program" depending upon your skill level. |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5024
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Posted - 2015.04.24 11:29:10 -
[21] - Quote
Sun-Tzu.
Your link to the Eve Uni wiki in post 1 is broken.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
193
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Posted - 2015.04.25 13:19:57 -
[22] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Any advice on how to deal with POCO's and player taxes? "See what's there and what the taxes are" doesn't help much.
About all you can do short of shooting it is contact the CEO or diplo officer of the corp that owns the POCOs and negotiate a lower rate. Might work, might not - can't hurt to try. A lot of POCOs owners (at least where I do PI, which isn't in highsec) don't actually know much (if anything) about PI and/or have no concept of economics so make sure you are very clear (but polite, of course) about how lowering your taxes will make them more money.
Shooting a POCOs should be a last resort. It costs the better part of a hundred million ISK to set up a new one and it takes a while to make that back, even with an army of PI alts. And if you fail to defend it you can be out all that money very easily. Best to pay a reasonable tax and let it (continue to) be someone else's problem.
KB Link
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5065
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:19:22 -
[23] - Quote
Kessiaan wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Any advice on how to deal with POCO's and player taxes? "See what's there and what the taxes are" doesn't help much. About all you can do short of shooting it is contact the CEO or diplo officer of the corp that owns the POCOs and negotiate a lower rate. Might work, might not - can't hurt to try. A lot of POCOs owners (at least where I do PI, which isn't in highsec) don't actually know much (if anything) about PI and/or have no concept of economics so make sure you are very clear (but polite, of course) about how lowering your taxes will make them more money. Shooting a POCOs should be a last resort. It costs the better part of a hundred million ISK to set up a new one and it takes a while to make that back, even with an army of PI alts. And if you fail to defend it you can be out all that money very easily. Best to pay a reasonable tax and let it (continue to) be someone else's problem.
I would only recommend shooting a POCO if you want a fight. Don't see it as a for-profit venture, see it as "I want to shoot someone and any ISK that comes from it is a bonus". Most people that own POCOs in highsec will defend them.
That said, one other option is *threatening* to shoot the POCO with no intention of actually doing so.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Machiavelli Rollard
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.07.09 11:36:13 -
[24] - Quote
This has been useful. |
Vulpinus Perfidium
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.07.09 17:34:46 -
[25] - Quote
Kessiaan wrote: It costs the better part of a hundred million ISK to set up a new one and it takes a while to make that back, even with an army of PI alts. And if you fail to defend it you can be out all that money very easily. Best to pay a reasonable tax and let it (continue to) be someone else's problem.
This is something I've wondered. I am certain in high sec that the income generated varies wildly between planet types, systems, and regions but how long would such an investment take to actually see a return?
If we formed a corporation to topple a few of these, and if we were able to hold onto them, what sort of planet may be the best to look for in high sec? What sort of system?
My thoughts would lean toward an area near new player systems, as they seem to travel shorter distances and many try out PI early in their careers. As far as planet types.. barren to get taxes from potential factory planets? plasma due to rarity?
Discounting the ability to bash a POCO and maintain control of it (or lack thereof), is there profit to be found?
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Take MyGun FromMe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.07.09 21:43:04 -
[26] - Quote
I thought I read somewhere you do not have to use POCO's, you could instead launch your goods directly into space and bypass the POCO. The only limitation being you could not launch as much? |
Yukimisama
Deviant Dollyz
8
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Posted - 2015.07.26 04:22:55 -
[27] - Quote
This is an amazing guide and has gotten me started on my way to building my first system and setup! I wanted to go ahead and include tools for future readers here at the end that I have found extremely useful:
http://eveplanets.com/ This will give you an idea of what's going on with your future planet type lookout if your like me and enjoy pretty things then you can figure out which planet you wanna go after using this! Fortunately I'm going to make robotics as it is currently the most cost effective/material effective one of the P3 chart to produce and resell and requires only favorite a PLASMA PLANET \o/
However that site kinda gives you like... EVERY SYSTEM EVER all at once in your face and says deal with it, so I found this next one very helpful as it allowed me to decide via jump distance from a trade hub and let me see via security status which is extremely important where I could get to to find my PLASMA PLANET!
http://www.thonky.com/eve-online-guide/nearby-planets-by-type
Hopefully this helps anyone else reading through this incredible guide
In My World...
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