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Tornii
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2015.03.28 22:35:27 -
[1] - Quote
So coming back after about half a year away from the game, I thought I'd jump into FW to get some themed territorial PVP before the nullsec sov warfare gets interesting this summer. I wanted to know if:
(1) Chasing people around FW plexes is still a frustrating task for someone looking for PVP, with all the warp stabs and people unwilling to fight; (2) If there are any new FW mechanics I could use to find people to shoot somewhere else other than the plexes. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
35183
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Posted - 2015.03.28 23:42:37 -
[2] - Quote
1) Yes it can still be frustrating. After CCP made changes to the PLEX mechanics to prevent cloaking within 30km, farmer numbers dropped off for a while, but they have come back again, though at lower numbers than they used to be.
There are more combat recons about now, though those numbers have settled down a bit since the recon changes. As a result, if you see a juicy ship inside a medium PLEX and you are solo, it's not bad to assume there is a combat recon inside as well; and then plan accordingly.
Biggest thing is the number of Garmur, Svipul, Confessor, Worm, Succubus (not at same numbers as the others) pilots around.
The meta has changes a bit recently, heavily towards these ships. You'll still see Comets, Assault Frigates, etc. around but they aren't as strong as they were even a few months ago.
2) FW missions provide a beacon than anyone can warp to. So you can drop in on a mission runner if you come across a beacon. Also, I have found quite a few people solo run the Besieged Covert Research Facility anomolies. They drop good BPCs and loot and there is often 2-3 in a system at a time. You can watch out for those. The orbital bombardment beacons often also provide a good place to pick up a target if there is any DUST action going on in system. Don't know if they were around when you played before, but otherwise everything should be pretty much the same as before.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
193
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Posted - 2015.03.29 00:44:58 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, stabbed farmers are the plague of FW lowsec ... everything is about the ISK/LPs, not the fights.
The other rather new plague of EvE are the vastly overpowered T3 destroyers. They are too cheap and too much of an "I win" button making whole ship classes like assault frigs obsolete.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
7246
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Posted - 2015.03.29 08:01:16 -
[4] - Quote
hate to break it to ya but I don't see FW being a prepper for null sov wars, FW has its own rules and processes of flipping systems so we're not gonna see fozziesov coming to FW for at least a few months. if anything, I'd say FW is a zone for getting combat experience with solo and small gang fights.
There are still farmers unwilling to fight and there always will be farmers unwilling to fight. remember FW is a public zone, it's riddled with carebears and pirates who also don't contribute much to sov manipulation of FW warzones.
As for FW fighting locations, plexes are still and always will be the spotlight of fights, however you can always catch WTs on gates and stations when they jump or undock.
tl;dr - FW has its own rules and it's not changing as null sov warfare does.
Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1912
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Posted - 2015.03.29 08:05:44 -
[5] - Quote
Carry two scrams. If you come across a farmer infestation switch your web for a second scram to sort the stab out.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Tornii
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2015.03.29 09:59:42 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks for the replies.
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame wrote:hate to break it to ya but I don't see FW being a prepper for null sov wars. I've spent more than half of my 8-year EVE time in nullsec. I got into FW yesterday cause I wanted themed territorial PVP (before nullsec becomes worth living and fighting in) as just shooting stuff without context is not something I'm interested in. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
482
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:34:04 -
[7] - Quote
There is a FW subforum. Please ask the mods to move your thread here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=249
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4194
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:45:09 -
[8] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Warfare & Tactics.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Serene Repose
2518
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Posted - 2015.03.29 15:12:52 -
[9] - Quote
Imagine somebody putting warp stabs on their ship! Why. The NERVE of some people!
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
195
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:15:21 -
[10] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Carry two scrams. If you come across a farmer infestation switch your web for a second scram to sort the stab out. Psst, don't tell the secrets
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Moglarr
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
64
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Posted - 2015.03.29 18:04:07 -
[11] - Quote
Tornii wrote:So coming back after about half a year away from the game, I thought I'd jump into FW to get some themed territorial PVP before the nullsec sov warfare gets interesting this summer. I wanted to know if:
(1) Chasing people around FW plexes is still a frustrating task for someone looking for PVP, with all the warp stabs and people unwilling to fight; (2) If there are any new FW mechanics I could use to find people to shoot somewhere else other than the plexes.
Chasing dplexing alts is an annoying thing to do, if that is what you're trying to do. That would never get you fights anyway.
You could use the KBs to hunt down active systems and hang out around there to find dudes looking for fights. Ask in militia chat where the action be at. |
Aegon the Dragonbane
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.03.29 21:13:58 -
[12] - Quote
Professional FW defender of my Gallente Territory. I'll use any means necessary to protect our space. For the glory of the Empire!
Learn to play or gtfo of FW. MY SYSTEMS! MY SYSTEMS!
Juicy tears. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
676
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Posted - 2015.03.29 21:32:17 -
[13] - Quote
Its easy really. Don't like warp stabs? (Yes they are a pain in the ass) get some friends and go attack someones home. Then they have a choice, fight or lose their home.
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Arla Sarain
368
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Posted - 2015.03.29 23:49:45 -
[14] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Its easy really. Don't like warp stabs? (Yes they are a pain in the ass) get some friends and go attack someones home. Then they have a choice, fight or lose their home.
Or continue plexing on their alt whilst defending their home.
Or just not give a **** about occupancy and continue farming in a stabbed tristan with aggressive drones.
PLex farming and FW sov are mutually exclusive and plex farmers are like cockroaches that will survive the warzone being coloured in one shade with little to no effort. |
Plato Forko
Percussive Diplomacy
144
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Posted - 2015.03.30 01:27:54 -
[15] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Its easy really. Don't like warp stabs? (Yes they are a pain in the ass) get some friends and go attack someones home. Then they have a choice, fight or lose their home.
just two small problems with this:
1) unless you're well-matched for TZ coverage, the guys you're trying to oust might be able to keep the system indefinitely dplexed without having to fight at all
2) unless someone from your side moves into the system right after it's been flipped, nothing will stop the target corp(s) from rebasing nearby and flipping the system back when the focus shifts to another system.
sov in FW is a joke, abused by warp-stabbed farmers on about the same level as it's abused by the real PvPers with the resources to flood a system with expendable frigs for as long as it takes to flip. |
Slan Starstrider
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.03.30 15:07:21 -
[16] - Quote
I am very new to FW myself, so I have a question on what you are looking for when you warp into a plex. I will be honest and say that the advice I have been getting for dplexing is to do it in a warp core stabbed atron aligned for retreat and to never solo dplexes with a ship to fight with. Interestingly I have also been told never to warp to a dplex that already has a member of my militia in it since it "dilutes" their LP, so that pushes it to a solo activity. I guess the logic in running away is that the fight will almost always be on the "attacker's" terms. They dscan the plex, they know what is there and they don't engage unless they have an overwhelming advantage.
This weekend on my second dplex ever (novice site in an incursus) I was attacked. I never attempted to run but it was clear within seconds that I would not win. I managed to live for quite a while, but I was brawler fit with afterburner and they were kiting fit. 2 against 1 with they having a imperial slicer with 22 km pulse. Oh and the guy had like a 90 percent efficiency rating on zkillboard.
Anyway, I am having the ships and fittings for 10 more of the same ship brought out and I will continue to try to defend the plexes. But I am guessing that the fights will always go against me. So what lesson will be learned? I am not sure yet, but I can see why people dplex with a "run-away" attitude.
My guess is that the "right" way to do this is in a small gang with proper logi and organization. But you can't fault the solo guy from running away from a dplex when the advantage is all yours. |
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Hoplite Brigade
80
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Posted - 2015.03.30 15:23:01 -
[17] - Quote
It's a little bit about geography, I have lived in my warzone for over a year now and I know where to go for different types of PVP etc. You get used to knowing what pilots/corps/alliances will engage in solo PVP, which will blob and which are simply farmers.
I would advise you join one of your factions big corps and try and soak up their local knowledge - then you can happily PVP till your hearts content!
My adversaries in the warzone tell me I'm a pleasure to fight....that's a compliment.....right? |
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
40
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Posted - 2015.03.30 15:58:26 -
[18] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:It's a little bit about geography, I have lived in my warzone for over a year now and I know where to go for different types of PVP etc. You get used to knowing what pilots/corps/alliances will engage in solo PVP, which will blob and which are simply farmers.
I would advise you join one of your factions big corps and try and soak up their local knowledge - then you can happily PVP till your hearts content!
My adversaries in the warzone tell me I'm a pleasure to fight....that's a compliment.....right?
Pretty much this. If you're looking for an actual fight (not a gank) stop chasing stabbed d-plexing alts. Spend some time to learn the lay of the land (whether through experience, talking with other militia men, or through killboard scouting). Eventually you'll find the pilots/corps/alliances that offer the type of engagements you're looking for. Then head their way and pick a fight.
Member of #tweetfleet @stalence //
Combat FRAPs on YouTube
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2869
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Posted - 2015.03.30 16:36:51 -
[19] - Quote
Aegon the Dragonbane wrote:Professional FW defender of my Gallente Territory. I'll use any means necessary to protect our space. For the glory of the Empire!
Role play error alert! It's "FOR THE FEDERATION!"
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3221
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:05:50 -
[20] - Quote
if you don't want stabbed farmers, support the threads which mention plex timer resets whenever they periodically come up.
since they fix the problem at its core. The only way to fix it is to make running away less profitable than fighting and attempting to hold the grid.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Moglarr
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
65
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:37:36 -
[21] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:if you don't want stabbed farmers, support the threads which mention plex timer resets whenever they periodically come up.
since they fix the problem at its core. The only way to fix it is to make running away less profitable than fighting and attempting to hold the grid.
It will never be more profitable to risk exploding when it comes to FW plexes.
The complaints about stabbed farmers, I feel like, come from the dudes trying to get ganks in backwater systems. Coming from an alliance with a very large TZ hole I know the pains of plexing happening during my off time, and we do begrudge the farmers but ultimately what blocks them is a culture shift on our part and a focus on occupying the FW space we lay claim to. What happens in back end systems doesn't matter. And in FW what makes a system important is generally who lives near by.
I often encounter people who don't want to fight me. Sometimes I am sneaker than them and make them fight me. Sometimes I am not. That is the way PVP works, I do wish unfit or non combat ships didn't have an impact on WZ control, but the easiest way to counter that is with pilots in space shooing them away. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3221
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:26:47 -
[22] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:Bienator II wrote:if you don't want stabbed farmers, support the threads which mention plex timer resets whenever they periodically come up.
since they fix the problem at its core. The only way to fix it is to make running away less profitable than fighting and attempting to hold the grid. It will never be more profitable to risk exploding when it comes to FW plexes. FW LP payouts allow to finance your pvp while plexing. It is possible since i for example have more lp as i actually need to cover my losses, and i don't even do FW missions which are the fastest way of getting LP.
if you lose all plexing progress if you run away. You can just as well stay and try to fight. Since suddenly things like stabs and cloaks don't become relevant anymore.
Look what CCP did: - they gave npcs 0 dps output to not influence PVP (thats good i guess but it didn't bother me before) - they made npcs respawn and transformed them into a dps test (the more dps your ship has the faster you can farm (-> stabs are a little disadvantage since they use up low slots which could be used for dps mods)) - oh yeah the decloak thing which was a joke IMO, it hurts more as it fixes things, esp since it fucks up the overview (try to orbit the button and see what happens)
this worked for about 1 week till everyone just began to use algos or high dps ships like worms for half-afk farming. The fact that you can now use trial accounts for FW doesn't healp eather
it all didn't fix the actual problem which is: you keep all your plexing progress when you run or.. hide.
What is plexing? It forces you to stay in space, hold the grid and be a target for your enemy while contesting hostile space. If you can't hold the grid, you should not be able to plex and influence docking rights of your enemy (speak: kick him out of system). It still isn't working.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3221
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:34:13 -
[23] - Quote
oh i forgot to mention one thing: FW has a huge reputation problem.
Farmers are the reason for it. Some say if you kill farmers you will kill off FW since nothing will be left. I disagree. Since if the plexing mechanics would work you would expect to have an influx of players which join for a steady, fun, arcade-like conflict between two factions.
plexes are eve's version of a matchmaker. Currently the other party quits the game when you join the match. THATS HOW BROKEN IT IS. (but this being said: fw mechanics are in better shape as it ever was ;) )
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Syrilian
Ascending Angels
54
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Posted - 2015.03.30 19:38:56 -
[24] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:oh i forgot to mention one thing: FW has a huge reputation problem.
Farmers are the reason for it. Some say if you kill farmers you will kill off FW since nothing will be left. I disagree. Since if the plexing mechanics would work you would expect to have an influx of players which join for a steady, fun, arcade-like conflict between two factions.
plexes are eve's version of a matchmaker. Currently the other party quits the game when you join the match. THATS HOW BROKEN IT IS. (but this being said: fw mechanics are in better shape as they ever were ;) )
In my experience, if you want a fight in Eve, you can find one. The problem with anti-farmer argument is that they always say that no one wants to fight but what they really mean is "no one wants to fight me in a fight completely in my favor. Come here so I can wipe the floor with you."
I'm not going to fight your souped up slicer when I'm flying a tristan with low SP. Sorry. And it's not that I'm risk adverse but I'm not insane either. Nor do I think I should have to wait until have 100 percent perfect combat skills before I do FW.
Far as I can tell, FW has always been intended as an avenue to learn PVP, and one of the first things you learn is what fights to pick . So yeah, if you are a high SP character with a **** load of kills you are going to get choosing not to fight you in FW.
Just because you don't like the system doesn't mean its broken.
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Moglarr
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
65
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Posted - 2015.03.30 20:25:38 -
[25] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Moglarr wrote:Bienator II wrote:if you don't want stabbed farmers, support the threads which mention plex timer resets whenever they periodically come up.
since they fix the problem at its core. The only way to fix it is to make running away less profitable than fighting and attempting to hold the grid. It will never be more profitable to risk exploding when it comes to FW plexes. FW LP payouts allow to finance your pvp while plexing. It is possible since i for example have more lp as i actually need to cover my losses, and i don't even do FW missions which are the fastest way of getting LP. if you lose all plexing progress if you run away. You can just as well stay and try to fight. Since suddenly things like stabs and cloaks don't become relevant anymore. Look what CCP did: - they gave npcs 0 dps output to not influence PVP (thats good i guess but it didn't bother me before) - they made npcs respawn and transformed them into a dps test (the more dps your ship has the faster you can farm (-> stabs are a little disadvantage since they use up low slots which could be used for dps mods)) - oh yeah the decloak thing which was a joke IMO, it hurts more as it fixes things, esp since it fucks up the overview (try to orbit the button and see what happens) this worked for about 1 week till everyone just began to use algos or high dps ships like worms for half-afk farming. The fact that you can now use trial accounts for FW doesn't healp eather it all didn't fix the actual problem which is: you keep all your plexing progress when you run or.. hide. What is plexing? It forces you to stay in space, hold the grid and be a target for your enemy while contesting hostile space. If you can't hold the grid, you should not be able to plex and influence docking rights of your enemy (speak: kick him out of system). It still isn't working.
I will attempt to clarify the line you quoted.
If I am farming and someone attacks me I risk losing my ship. Or I could just fly away and not lose my ship. I would never argue that a pilot cannot sustain living in the WZ and only plexing and fighting, because I know for a fact one can. What I wanted to get across is that no solution designed to "make someone fight" will make someone fight if they don't want to. Which is why I would say more of a culture shift, rather than one of mechanics, be the solution to it.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2871
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:08:16 -
[26] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:it all didn't fix the actual problem which is: you keep all your plexing progress when you run or.. hide.
The actual problem was that afk farmers were influencing the system more than they should. That problem has been solved.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
557
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:08:36 -
[27] - Quote
Plex timer rollbacks are definitely needed change. At fanfest pretty much the whole room at the lowsec / FW panel endorsed this change to CCP. I believed the same thing happened last year. Mebbe once they have Fozziesov implemented we will see timer rollbacks.
Cultural shift away from stabbed farming is also good. Seems like a lot of the people complaining about not getting the fights they want in FW aren't the groups who are most active in FW. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2871
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:14:13 -
[28] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote: 2) unless someone from your side moves into the system right after it's been flipped, nothing will stop the target corp(s) from rebasing nearby and flipping the system back when the focus shifts to another system.
Whaaa??? You mean you actually have to DEFEND what you've conquered??!!! GET OUT OF TOWN!
That statement right there is the reason FW will never be as good as null sec.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3221
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Posted - 2015.03.31 02:23:35 -
[29] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Bienator II wrote:it all didn't fix the actual problem which is: you keep all your plexing progress when you run or.. hide.
The actual problem was that afk farmers were influencing the system more than they should. That problem has been solved. it was solved for about 10 days. till players adapted.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3221
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Posted - 2015.03.31 02:52:01 -
[30] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:Bienator II wrote:oh i forgot to mention one thing: FW has a huge reputation problem.
Farmers are the reason for it. Some say if you kill farmers you will kill off FW since nothing will be left. I disagree. Since if the plexing mechanics would work you would expect to have an influx of players which join for a steady, fun, arcade-like conflict between two factions.
plexes are eve's version of a matchmaker. Currently the other party quits the game when you join the match. THATS HOW BROKEN IT IS. (but this being said: fw mechanics are in better shape as they ever were ;) ) In my experience, if you want a fight in Eve, you can find one. The problem with anti-farmer argument is that they always say that no one wants to fight but what they really mean is "no one wants to fight me in a fight completely in my favor. Come here so I can wipe the floor with you." I'm not going to fight your souped up slicer when I'm flying a tristan with low SP. Sorry. And it's not that I'm risk adverse but I'm not insane either. Nor do I think I should have to wait until have 100 percent perfect combat skills before I do FW. Far as I can tell, FW has always been intended as an avenue to learn PVP, and one of the first things you learn is what fights to pick . So yeah, if you are a high SP character with a **** load of kills you are going to get choosing not to fight you in FW. Just because you don't like the system doesn't mean its broken.
i learned pvp in FW. Back when the FW system was far worse than it is now. So i do know how it is for a low SP char to get winnable fights. At the same time it is far more rewarding once you manage to win a fight.
Your corp does it right. You guys group up if i remember correctly. I think i lost at least one confessor to your low-sp gang. When i was talking about farmers i didn't have you guys in mind - you can be sure about that.
I am wondering, why do you think game mechanics should let a militia member make progress, let him contest a system, earn LP, despite the fact that he run away. If you can't fight, so be it, you have to move on or group up, reship, whatever.
If you don't WANT to fight in general, you can still do FW pve.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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