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Lachra
Union of Labor
119
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:31:54 -
[1] - Quote
I suspect (based mainly on my own thoughts and actions within the game) that one of the reasons why so little risks are deemed viable to take for many players in low-sec / null-sec is that of gate-camping. For many players the prospect of venturing into low-sec / null-sec ends abruptly at one of the few bottleneck-systems that they would be required to pass through, chiefly because of the nature of the game mechanics that make gate-camping successful.
When passing through a gate (or even undocking) the player enters grid with their pants firmly yanked to their ankles and a bag over their head. When a few expeditions into low-sec / null-sec end up fizzling out to insta-lock gate-camps less than sixty seconds after jumping out of high-sec, encouraging players to take a risk becomes a problem. So they stay in high-sec.
I've thought about the problem since I started playing. I've always personally hoped that warp-gates would be removed from the game, in time. After seeing the latest trailer, I was struck when the incident of 'Caroline's Star' was explained to have caused all of the Jove gates to 'go offline'. Any chance of a similar 'anomoly' happening across the rest of New Eden, I wonder? I, for one, am hoping. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8157
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:37:08 -
[2] - Quote
The simple reason is that without gate camping there would be little to do for low sec dwellers.
Everything is better in high or null sec.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Serene Repose
2517
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:40:36 -
[3] - Quote
It's like kids who've allowed their fishing tackle to fall into a state of disrepair. Rather than spend the week and a half trying to dig their fishing rods out of that bird nest of tangled fishing line and rusty hooks, they go stream side, tell stories with cuss words in them, and throw enough rocks in to not only scare off all the fish, but alter the depth of said stream by five feet.
We call it "digital nailbiting." It's for the highly unimaginative and the easily impressed.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Arthur Aihaken
Narada
4247
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:42:26 -
[4] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:The simple reason is that without gate camping there would be little to do for low sec dwellers. There's always FW complexes.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12334
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:42:44 -
[5] - Quote
There are too few ways to force a fight in this game, so chokepoints like gates and station undocks tend to draw attention.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Lachra
Union of Labor
119
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:45:31 -
[6] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:It's like kids who've allowed their fishing tackle to fall into a state of disrepair. Rather than spend the week and a half trying to dig their fishing rods out of that bird nest of tangled fishing line and rusty hooks, they go stream side, tell stories with cuss words in them, and throw enough rocks in to not only scare off all the fish, but alter the depth of said stream by five feet.
We call it "digital nailbiting." It's for the highly unimaginative and the easily impressed.
I don't understand the story, don't get the message. |
Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate.
1522
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:46:30 -
[7] - Quote
Player makes friends -> player goes to nullsec with said friends and kills gatecamps -> ??? -> Profit!
Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
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HiltoftheDragons
Grievance3
35
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Posted - 2015.03.29 14:51:58 -
[8] - Quote
Anytime i would get a urge to fly around in hostile areas, i would just put some crazy fit on a frig and see how far i could go until the inevitable would happen. There were times i would travel a long time before getting sucked into a camp and getting a free ticket back to the cloner.
I make a game out of it instead. Its a good change of pace sometimes.....not to mention some of the campers i made angry by getting away.
P.S. OP i would definitely flirt with your avatar and buy her a drink........just saying.
Destiny always seems decades away, but suddenly it's not decades away; it's right now. But maybe destiny is always right now, right here, right this very instant, maybe.
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Mag's
the united
19193
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Posted - 2015.03.29 15:12:39 -
[9] - Quote
Lachra wrote:I've thought about the problem since I started playing. What problem?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Sacu Shi
The Ammatar Auxillaries of Tidacha
51
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Posted - 2015.03.29 15:23:01 -
[10] - Quote
isnt this what WH are for? |
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
344
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Posted - 2015.03.29 15:24:10 -
[11] - Quote
Polar bears gatecamp. Why shouldn't we?
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2015.03.29 15:34:59 -
[12] - Quote
Lachra wrote:I suspect (based mainly on my own thoughts and actions within the game) that one of the reasons why so little risks are deemed viable to take for many players in low-sec / null-sec is that of gate-camping. For many players the prospect of venturing into low-sec / null-sec ends abruptly at one of the few bottleneck-systems that they would be required to pass through, chiefly because of the nature of the game mechanics that make gate-camping successful.
When passing through a gate (or even undocking) the player enters grid with their pants firmly yanked to their ankles and a bag over their head. When a few expeditions into low-sec / null-sec end up fizzling out to insta-lock gate-camps less than sixty seconds after jumping out of high-sec, encouraging players to take a risk becomes a problem. So they stay in high-sec.
I've thought about the problem since I started playing. I've always personally hoped that warp-gates would be removed from the game, in time. After seeing the latest trailer, I was struck when the incident of 'Caroline's Star' was explained to have caused all of the Jove gates to 'go offline'. Any chance of a similar 'anomaly' happening across the rest of New Eden, I wonder? I, for one, am hoping.
Okay, this reads like an honest post simply sharing thoughts, asking for input.
You are right with your conclusion, but wrong with your perspective.
It is true that there are people who do not venture outside of highsec, because they fear gate-camps.
It is false to assume that every gate is camped. Anyone who does not try properly, yet speaks up about it, has no ground to talk about it.
Like "too much noobgriefing" there are people who only work on hearsay and people who generalise wwaaayyy too much.
"Everyone's a griefer in this game" is one example. Another is "Gate-camps force me to stay in highsec."
Your post doesn't read like someone who speaks from experience, which makes it really hard to have a proper talk about this.
I urge you to avoid hearsay at all cost, especially when it comes to people who generalise everyone into the "griefer" category.
These people usually are the actually bad ones, which they prove quite often when they speak up.
Like Basil, for example.
Regarding undocking it's the same thing. You do not seem to speak from experience, but in any case do you show that you lack understanding of game mechanics.
Besides nullsec where you might be trapped by bubbles, you can create instaundock bookmarks for every station out there one way or another.
No one ... absolutely no one ... is forced to stay in a station, except when bubbled in nullsec. (and then he can still die a glorious death anyway)
The conclusion is:
The real issue is lack of understanding of game mechanics. How to avoid what is simply only *perceived* as unavoidable.
Removing gates all together would, with current game mechanics, pretty much remove 99% of all combat from the game, because except on stations, no one would meet anyone else.
Thus this idea can be dismissed as bonkers.
The absolutely earliest we would see such a feature talked about as possibility, would be when CCP manages to unlink systems from their nodes.
A node is a piece of the server, which calculates in-game activity for one or more systems.
Systems with lower activity (it's all measured before downtime and then re-configured) will be put together on one node ... and some systems get their own one. Like Jita.
TL;DR:
No.
"Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2015.03.29 15:36:21 -
[13] - Quote
OP look at all these folk, they're not called bitter vets for no reason. They have all loved and lost (it to a gate camp).
ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10489
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:05:30 -
[14] - Quote
Lachra wrote:I suspect (based mainly on my own thoughts and actions within the game) that one of the reasons why so little risks are deemed viable to take for many players in low-sec / null-sec is that of gate-camping. For many players the prospect of venturing into low-sec / null-sec ends abruptly at one of the few bottleneck-systems that they would be required to pass through, chiefly because of the nature of the game mechanics that make gate-camping successful.
When passing through a gate (or even undocking) the player enters grid with their pants firmly yanked to their ankles and a bag over their head. When a few expeditions into low-sec / null-sec end up fizzling out to insta-lock gate-camps less than sixty seconds after jumping out of high-sec, encouraging players to take a risk becomes a problem. So they stay in high-sec.
I've thought about the problem since I started playing. I've always personally hoped that warp-gates would be removed from the game, in time. After seeing the latest trailer, I was struck when the incident of 'Caroline's Star' was explained to have caused all of the Jove gates to 'go offline'. Any chance of a similar 'anomaly' happening across the rest of New Eden, I wonder? I, for one, am hoping.
Now , I'm the 1st to tell people that you can't really jump to conclusions about a person's motivations from one post (now, 100 posts with the same theme, you can discern motivation from that lol).
That being said, you probably died to a gate camp, because their aren't a lot of other reason for this kind of nonsense post. In the almost 8 years I've played EVE Online, CCP has added (intentionally or otherwise) dozens of ways to avoid gate camps on top of the obvious ways that have existed since the 1st gate when up.
You can use a scout, which can be a real life friend, or your real life BEST friend (ie yourself, make an alt lol). You can fly ships that can warp cloaked (and despite the 'insta-locking myth', if you do it right you won't be caught) and related to that is the MWD/Cloak trick, these tactics let you ignore gate camps, even in null if you use nullified ships. Or you could bring enough people to scare the camp off.
Our you could use a jump bridge if someone in your group has a titan to bypass the area, or a covert bridge of your own in the right ship if you use a black ops and can get someone to light a cyno for you (or you can double/triple box and do it yourself). Or you can use wormholes to bypass EVERY gate in the game as long as you have a bit of patience in finding the right path.
Etc etc. Gate camps are nothing now and they were nothing when the game began. The people who complain about gate camps are "pathologically solo" types who believe that there should be no penalty in an mmo for choosing to go completely alone. If you don't like gate camps, do something about them, don't run to the forums suggesting that 'mommie' (CCP does something about them for you.
Oh, and for the record (since the natural reply to a post like mine tends to be "you must be one of them/you must benefit from the status quo), I don't gate camp, In 8 years I've maybe participated in a grand total of 3 intentional gate camps (ie gangs made for that specific purpose, I don't count camping a gate for a few minutes on a roam as a 'gate camp', even if I did it wouldn't increase the number of them I've been in by much).
Frankly, I think gate camping is boring and somewhat lame, if I want a fight I go find one. It's because I find them boring and lame that if I find one, I avoid it or occasionally form up some nerds bad assed hard core space mofos and go squash it, because some of us do while the rest of y'all talk and whine, |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
681
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:06:40 -
[15] - Quote
Elite: Dangerous' method of travelling around and catching players looks more interesting. But I've only watched videos, so I don't know what it actually plays like. I'll give it a try... sometime...
Yeah gate camps in EVE are lame. And yeah, you can use a third party website to check out system stats, load up an expendable scout alt to warp ahead of you, and refit your ship for travel then refit again when you need to actually do something... but why bother? There's nothing particularly great about lowsec. |
Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
6
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:14:39 -
[16] - Quote
Gate camping is like mining, really. It requires a similar mind set.
Excellence is an attitude.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9193
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:23:42 -
[17] - Quote
its not the low risk, its the low effort.
the following short story is how high-low sec gate camps are born.
"im booooooorde, all our targets are booring sissys"
"wana go sit on the gate?"
"meh, why not. do we have eyes on the other side of the gate?"
"gime a sec"
"no worries im grabbing a drink anyway"
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Seven Koskanaiken
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1455
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:33:48 -
[18] - Quote
Light a cyno with an reaper alt somewhere in system far from the gate. |
ggodhsup
relocation LLC.
71
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:57:38 -
[19] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:its not the low risk, its the low effort. the following short story is how high-low sec gate camps are born. "im booooooorde, all our targets are booring sissys" "wana go sit on the gate?" "meh, why not. do we have eyes on the other side of the gate?" "gime a sec" "no worries im grabbing a drink anyway" Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose
qft, why shipspin and bullshit on ts when you can camp a gate and do the same thing.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4376
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:05:52 -
[20] - Quote
you're flying through the wrong gates if you're running into gatecamps often. sometimes, yeah, you are **** out of luck, but nowhere near the point it's not worth going through low
Quote:When passing through a gate (or even undocking) the player enters grid with their pants firmly yanked to their ankles and a bag over their head
in lowsec, hit ctrl+space when undocking, you're fine |
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Lienzo
Amanuensis
58
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:19:12 -
[21] - Quote
Having player engagement happen at load-in zones, ie spawn-camping in any other game, is largely a product of having a game with little or no environment.
Perhaps with the rise of new structures some new options will emerge. CCP could have gone a lot of places with deadspaces, but it just never materialized. It's hard for any outsider to say if the developers who came up with them are even still with the company today. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4376
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:31:48 -
[22] - Quote
i hrrrrrrgh
i liked hrrrrrrgh
i liked dinsdale pirannha's idea hrrrrgh
of un-dscannable deadspace sites that also blocked outgoing dscans |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:34:15 -
[23] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:its not the low risk, its the low effort. the following short story is how high-low sec gate camps are born. "im booooooorde, all our targets are booring sissys" "wana go sit on the gate?" "meh, why not. do we have eyes on the other side of the gate?" "gime a sec" "no worries im grabbing a drink anyway" Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose This feels so close to the truth, I want to give you a medal for it.
"Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9196
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:41:52 -
[24] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:its not the low risk, its the low effort. the following short story is how high-low sec gate camps are born. "im booooooorde, all our targets are booring sissys" "wana go sit on the gate?" "meh, why not. do we have eyes on the other side of the gate?" "gime a sec" "no worries im grabbing a drink anyway" Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose This feels so close to the truth, I want to give you a medal for it. why thank you sol, a sexy well looped gif will do...something to idly glance at when ther's no traffic
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1173
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:43:42 -
[25] - Quote
Gate camps are more boring than mining.
I can't even get people to omni tank rat while gate camping.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4378
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Posted - 2015.03.29 17:50:21 -
[26] - Quote
gate camps are like a box of chocolate liqueurs, mining is like a box of sacramental bread
what is omni tank ratting |
Mag's
the united
19196
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:21:33 -
[27] - Quote
Gate camping happened to fit my life style at the time I last played. Not much RL time for gaming, so being able to jump into Eve and instantly join a fleet was great.
Some of the best fights and laughs I've had in Eve, have been at gates. Ralph nailed it quite nicely.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Arla Sarain
368
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:27:25 -
[28] - Quote
Gate camping exists because gates exist.
There ARE too few ways to get a fight, there are an outstandingly low amount of ways to get someone in a safe spot, and it has a very small chance of succeeding.
Hence fighting at common objects of interest is the most obvious way to get a fight. Everyone uses gates. Which makes it attractive to camp.
Don't want to deal with camps? A) Cyno B) Wormhole C) Convince CCP to remove gates |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2287
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Posted - 2015.03.29 20:04:10 -
[29] - Quote
You're right about gatecamps and players not wanting to go to null. There are of course lots of other reasons people don't want to go.
In defense of gate campers - the gate camp has been in the game since day one... sortof. It was actually much worse when EvE released. You'd spawn in the middle of space, nowhere near a gate, uncloaked, but only after your ship had sat there for 30 seconds while the game loaded system. First time I died to a camp I could hear myself getting locked, shot and killed / podded while my screen was still black.
Defense - basically there's close to no other way to reliably engage a person. Why? Local. People dock up, cloak, log off.
Somethings that's really remained untouched is the gate camp. You're still spawning 15km or less from a gate, exactly the same as you were in 2003. Meanwhile since 2003 we've seen the introduction of 1) bubbles 2) dictors / hdictors 3) remote sebo's 4) interdiction links.
Yet, we've seen no alternative to camping gates developed that would make player interaction more interesting or less dangerous during travel. Campers would ask why make it less dangerous, well, less dangerous = more targets, more targets = more opportunities. With the right tweaking CCP could make it both safer to enter null / low, and at the same time, easier to hunt targets due to an increase in targets being available.
Of course the other reason null and low are not popular or dont' get many visitors is there's not much benefit to go into low, its pretty crap and as to null, you can go out there, make a lot of isk but the task is made extremely difficult by the limited availability of stations, resupply and unless you're running combat sites which can net you billions a day, there's stuff all to do that's interesting or worthwhile for visitors.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1367
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Posted - 2015.03.29 20:19:38 -
[30] - Quote
So there's some kind of problem with gate camps?
Never noticed.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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