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Baaldor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
269
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Posted - 2015.03.30 16:56:15 -
[61] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Baaldor wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are too few ways to force a fight in this game, so chokepoints like gates and station undocks tend to draw attention. There's this thing called combat probes. And there are ships you can use like Recons that don't show up on D-scan. True story. :effort: There is also the whole "whoever had the brainpower to warp to a safe probably also has the brainpower to check d-scan for probes" thing...
Not necessarily true...found quite a few smug pilots thinking that their "Deep Safe" was all good....
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4381
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:02:55 -
[62] - Quote
i really don't get the point of the post
kaarous says chokepoints are one of the few ways to get a fight vs someone who didn't want one
someone comes in and says 'just probe them'
like yeah okay probes can be used circumstantially to get a fight, thanks, i think we can assume we all knew that, why are you being a turd |
Baaldor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
269
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:29:30 -
[63] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:i really don't get the point of the post
kaarous says chokepoints are one of the few ways to get a fight vs someone who didn't want one
someone comes in and says 'just probe them'
like yeah okay probes can be used circumstantially to get a fight, thanks, i think we can assume we all knew that, why are you being a turd
which post and who's being a turd. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6519
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:15:40 -
[64] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are too few ways to force a fight in this game, so chokepoints like gates and station undocks tend to draw attention. There's this thing called combat probes. And there are ships you can use like Recons that don't show up on D-scan. True story. uh, are you going to politely ask the gang that's avoiding yours to remain stationary in a safe so you can probe them down
I could go into a long explanation on how to probe people out with very little detection, as given to me in 2010 by a very good ganker and in fact when I fear, it's that player in particular I worry about - regardless of the fact I have not seen him in years.
But since everything is hurf blurf "I'm Conan the Contrarian" in the forums these days, I'll spare myself the carpal tunnel syndrome and just keep it to myself.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8169
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:48:40 -
[65] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Bring back DEEEEP Space!
*stares wistfully off into the distance*
I was just thinking about that. I just reactivated the acct my deep safe bookmark maker is on.
I have to say I got a little maudlin as I perused the hundreds of DS bookmarks in his folder. So many hours dedicated to slingshotting back and forth, getting a little further outside the system each time.
I'd love to go back to those days of deep safes that took minutes to warp to instead of seconds.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4382
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:59:58 -
[66] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I could go into a long explanation on how to probe people out with very little detection, as given to me in 2010 by a very good ganker and in fact when I fear, it's that player in particular I worry about - regardless of the fact I have not seen him in years.
But since everything is hurf blurf "I'm Conan the Contrarian" in the forums these days, I'll spare myself the carpal tunnel syndrome and just keep it to myself. my post wasn't about anyone's ability to probe
it's like the point's deliberately missing you |
Baaldor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
271
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Posted - 2015.03.30 19:03:41 -
[67] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Bring back DEEEEP Space! *stares wistfully off into the distance* I was just thinking about that. I just reactivated the acct my deep safe bookmark maker is on. I have to say I got a little maudlin as I perused the hundreds of DS bookmarks in his folder. So many hours dedicated to slingshotting back and forth, getting a little further outside the system each time. I'd love to go back to those days of deep safes that took minutes to warp to instead of seconds. Mr Epeen
Yes.
FC : Everyone align to planet IV
FC: ok fleet looks aligned....
FC: "This is your captain, we will be arriving at our destination in about 10 minutes, please feel free to walk around the cabin, grab a smoke or just rub one out. And thank you for flying with us"
Man it has been along time, but I think I remember the AU counter reset a few times... |
Arla Sarain
369
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Posted - 2015.03.30 20:50:49 -
[68] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Baaldor wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are too few ways to force a fight in this game, so chokepoints like gates and station undocks tend to draw attention. There's this thing called combat probes. And there are ships you can use like Recons that don't show up on D-scan. True story. :effort: No no no. A lot of players under 30, the kind that need listicles (and then a youtube video to walk them through said listicle) could not handle that. You guys mean those things that people warp away from because seeing them is effortless? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6519
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:23:49 -
[69] - Quote
Baaldor wrote: just rub one out....
Well, there's something I haven't done while playing...
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6519
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:25:42 -
[70] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Bring back DEEEEP Space! *stares wistfully off into the distance* I was just thinking about that. I just reactivated the acct my deep safe bookmark maker is on. I have to say I got a little maudlin as I perused the hundreds of DS bookmarks in his folder. So many hours dedicated to slingshotting back and forth, getting a little further outside the system each time. I'd love to go back to those days of deep safes that took minutes to warp to instead of seconds. Mr Epeen
Remember those deep space probes? Nothing like seeing something 100 AU and thinking "OMG what is that?"
Then probing it down and it's a rookie ship.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2289
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Posted - 2015.03.31 01:06:34 -
[71] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:Instead of writing a well-though-through manifest on gate camping I wll try to keep it short and simple as the nature of gate camping is - or is it?
First: There is no such thing as an instalocker. There are quick-lockers that are bound to the server tick.
There are certain choke points in Eve that need superintendece. These key systems are spread over High-, Low- and Zero-Security space in New Eden.
The high sec systems in question are along the main trade routes through High security space naturally. Namely we can list Uedama or Sivala in The Citadel or Niarja in Domain. Also the trade hubs themselves are widely camped by honorable tradesmen. For that is what they are...they trade aquired goods and control the ways they reach the market and most important the quantity of goods reaching the booths.(just think of the collapse of prices if everything that is produced also reaches it-¦s destination)
I really do not know a lot of 0.0 gate camps other than the mechanics that enable you to use bubbles and quicklockers. In reality gate camps in 0.0 often consist of one single ship - a sabre - The player stearing it will probably have another account running for cloacky scouting or even has a charackter in a local alliance to gather intel. A charackteristic of these 0.0 sec regions is that there are Intel-channels and sooner or later some white-knighting will occour and the sabre will vanish. Larger groups can camp whole pipes with a frigate each on the gates...its nearly impossible to escape if you dont want to fight or fit your ship accordingly (also valid for low sec). I still see cloacky transport ships with cargohold extenders fitted...thats not how you do it if you do not want to get caught.
There are many Low sec chokepoints - but few that are worth camping. These chokepoints often lie along short Cuts betqween mission hubs or trade hubs. Short cuts are supposed to be dangerous, it is beneficial for someone to use them as they will reach their destination much faster. Gate camps in low sec will always consist of ships from cruiser size upward with a lot of logistic support at the gate (thank you ccp) or of battlecruiser sized ships (upwards) without gate support but a pounce with a repping ship. There will also be 3-5 scouts in nearby systems. A industrial sized gate camp in low sec is connected to a high logistical effort. "Industrial sized" in this context means that we do not do that for fun alone. It is like gunmining - a real effort to earn some honest Isk. In the end we are traders too.
PS.: It is one of the easiest things to break a gate camp in low sec if you have some friends. I will not go into detail because that would be bad for business.
If you are a solo player and you do not want to interact with other players - well then a gate camp is no place for you - it is really that simple. EVE is a game with an emphasis on cooperation between players and at least a minimum of social interaction. OP mentioned bringing Combat vessles into lowsec for Missions (contradiction?). That is dangerous in ALL of low sec, not only where gates are camped.
In the end low-sec gatecamps do not really have an impact on many players. The amount of destroyed ships and Isk does not really make it "unbalanced". There is barley enough ISK to be made that one can make a living from it. The issue is not that gate camps are necessary (they are) nor is it that they're supposedly impossible to get past (they're exceedingly easy to run in fact).
The issue is they're the default way of catching people in EVE. Have been since the game launched although I remember being pretty successful shortly after launch catching people in belts.
The problem with spawn camping as the only reliable way to get kills is spawn camping is fricking boring, its imbalanced in terms of good fights (usually multiple ships vs 1 traveller) and it doesn't evolve or allow targets to evolve. You either are clued on and virtually impossible to catch or you're catching newbs.
So the issues are, the game play is still stuck in 2003 in terms of pirating, camping. Its boring. Its ineffective if your target knows what its doing. It doesn't provide good fights very often. Its not profitable for the camper in most cases since you're only catching idiots (there have been a few isked up exceptions but not regularly). There's no evolution or adaptation after the initial figuring out how to 99.9% beat the campers. Its imbalanced, travelling with multiple combat ships to take a load of xxx to highsec is not profitably viable.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
302
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Posted - 2015.03.31 02:09:40 -
[72] - Quote
OP is doing it wrong, i blast threw gate camps left and right with a properly fit Ares, getting into null is easy. Learn to fit ships properly.
......................................................
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Gate Camp Theory
1563
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Posted - 2015.03.31 05:33:40 -
[73] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The issue is they're the default way of catching people in EVE. Have been since the game launched although I remember being pretty successful shortly after launch catching people in belts.
The problem with spawn camping as the only reliable way to get kills is spawn camping is fricking boring, its imbalanced in terms of good fights (usually multiple ships vs 1 traveller) and it doesn't evolve or allow targets to evolve. You either are clued on and virtually impossible to catch or you're catching newbs.
So the issues are, the game play is still stuck in 2003 in terms of pirating, camping. Its boring. Its ineffective if your target knows what its doing. It doesn't provide good fights very often. Its not profitable for the camper in most cases since you're only catching idiots (there have been a few isked up exceptions but not regularly). There's no evolution or adaptation after the initial figuring out how to 99.9% beat the campers. Its imbalanced, travelling with multiple combat ships to take a load of xxx to highsec is not profitably viable.
In reality it is very profitable as people are hauling unbelievable things through low sec pipes. It is fun enough if you have some dudes sitting on TS together and do some black ops stuff in between if your scouts find interesting targets. Choke points are also the place where pirates will get you in the real world, for reference the piracy map 2015 IMB piracy and armed robbery map 2015 There is evolution as there have been several nerfs to gate camping in the last few years (also some unintended? buffs). We all had to adapt.
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2291
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Posted - 2015.03.31 11:45:16 -
[74] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
The issue is they're the default way of catching people in EVE. Have been since the game launched although I remember being pretty successful shortly after launch catching people in belts.
The problem with spawn camping as the only reliable way to get kills is spawn camping is fricking boring, its imbalanced in terms of good fights (usually multiple ships vs 1 traveller) and it doesn't evolve or allow targets to evolve. You either are clued on and virtually impossible to catch or you're catching newbs.
So the issues are, the game play is still stuck in 2003 in terms of pirating, camping. Its boring. Its ineffective if your target knows what its doing. It doesn't provide good fights very often. Its not profitable for the camper in most cases since you're only catching idiots (there have been a few isked up exceptions but not regularly). There's no evolution or adaptation after the initial figuring out how to 99.9% beat the campers. Its imbalanced, travelling with multiple combat ships to take a load of xxx to highsec is not profitably viable.
In reality it is very profitable as people are hauling unbelievable things through low sec pipes. It is fun enough if you have some dudes sitting on TS together and do some black ops stuff in between if your scouts find interesting targets. Choke points are also the place where pirates will get you in the real world, for reference the piracy map 2015 IMB piracy and armed robbery map 2015There is evolution as there have been several nerfs to gate camping in the last few years (also some unintended? buffs). We all had to adapt. I don't know. I did it for a day or two. Can't remember the system it was in but its probably in my killboards. Granted it was just after T2 BPO were released so long time ago. Made a little money but not in line with running L4's. Just sat there popping **** with a mega I think. Maybe its more profitable now but it was horribly boring I remember that.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
637
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Posted - 2015.03.31 12:12:35 -
[75] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Gatecamps are an unfortunate necessity. It doesn't make sense for people to be able to travel through low/nullsec in anything they please with zero risk, and there's really no other way to catch someone who is just transitting the system.
I would submit that instalocking is a bit broken, and the fact that people can gatecamp risk free with enough scout alts scattered about. The folks that gatecamp for a living in places like rancer tend to have scouts 2 jumps out in every direction, they're literally untouchable.
I thoroughly enjoy murdering gate campers because 1) they are scum and 2) they tend to be flying excessively shiny things. But most times they're already docked up when your fleet lands on gate in the adjacent system.
Aww is the poor frog gonna cry that we killed alot of them on the hik/pyne gate again?
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12363
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Posted - 2015.03.31 12:29:12 -
[76] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are too few ways to force a fight in this game, so chokepoints like gates and station undocks tend to draw attention. There's this thing called combat probes. And there are ships you can use like Recons that don't show up on D-scan. True story.
How long has that existed? A few months? Gatecamps have been around far longer, and not without cause. Besides, why should the only way to hunt be to chase? Some hunters hunt by chasing, some by stealth, some by trickery and surprise, and some by picking off the unwary near the watering holes.
Much like in nature. And much like in nature, it's a poor hunter indeed who cannot understand and respect a variety of means, even if they don't use them themselves.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10501
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Posted - 2015.03.31 12:46:18 -
[77] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are too few ways to force a fight in this game, so chokepoints like gates and station undocks tend to draw attention. There's this thing called combat probes. And there are ships you can use like Recons that don't show up on D-scan. True story. How long has that existed? A few months? Gatecamps have been around far longer, and not without cause. Besides, why should the only way to hunt be to chase? Some hunters hunt by chasing, some by stealth, some by trickery and surprise, and some by picking off the unwary near the watering holes. Much like in nature. And much like in nature, it's a poor hunter indeed who cannot understand and respect a variety of means, even if they don't use them themselves.
Some of these people probably look at Spiders making webs to catch food with and think "damn campers"
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9241
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Posted - 2015.03.31 13:12:31 -
[78] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are too few ways to force a fight in this game, so chokepoints like gates and station undocks tend to draw attention. There's this thing called combat probes. And there are ships you can use like Recons that don't show up on D-scan. True story. How long has that existed? A few months? Gatecamps have been around far longer, and not without cause. Besides, why should the only way to hunt be to chase? Some hunters hunt by chasing, some by stealth, some by trickery and surprise, and some by picking off the unwary near the watering holes. Much like in nature. And much like in nature, it's a poor hunter indeed who cannot understand and respect a variety of means, even if they don't use them themselves. Some of these people probably look at Spiders making webs to catch food with and think "damn campers" https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpib6is0so1feui/Three-bears-fishing-fish_1920x1200.jpg?dl=0
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
40
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Posted - 2015.03.31 13:32:18 -
[79] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Light a cyno with an reaper alt somewhere in system far from the gate. It's like a siren song.
... hell, light a cyno on the gate... half the time they figure a black ops drop is going down and they scatter like cockroaches when the lights are turned on.
Member of #tweetfleet @stalence //
Combat FRAPs on YouTube
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
359
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Posted - 2015.03.31 13:38:56 -
[80] - Quote
Stalence wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Light a cyno with an reaper alt somewhere in system far from the gate. It's like a siren song. ... hell, light a cyno on the gate... half the time they figure a black ops drop is going down and they scatter like cockroaches when the lights are turned on.
I've always enjoyed lighting a cyno on a deathstar and firing up the hictor bubble right when they land. Teaching people to scout unfriendly cynos is a calling my friends.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1178
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Posted - 2015.03.31 14:32:25 -
[81] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:... With the right tweaking CCP could .... Pockets and pipes remain the same. "Travel route" systems vary by spawning you 20-70 km from the gate.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Gate Camp Theory
1563
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Posted - 2015.03.31 15:40:28 -
[82] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Gatecamps are an unfortunate necessity. It doesn't make sense for people to be able to travel through low/nullsec in anything they please with zero risk, and there's really no other way to catch someone who is just transitting the system.
I would submit that instalocking is a bit broken, and the fact that people can gatecamp risk free with enough scout alts scattered about. The folks that gatecamp for a living in places like rancer tend to have scouts 2 jumps out in every direction, they're literally untouchable.
I thoroughly enjoy murdering gate campers because 1) they are scum and 2) they tend to be flying excessively shiny things. But most times they're already docked up when your fleet lands on gate in the adjacent system. Aww is the poor frog gonna cry that we killed alot of them on the hik/pyne gate again?
1st) Again...there is no such thing as instalock.
You can tweak a quicklocker that it is on the point with the server tick.
It is a simple calculation. Gate campers have usually no time to grind isk otherwise (job, family)...they want to come online and kill ****. Most of them pay their accounts with cash (credit card) and not with plex.
If I want to kill a lousy hauler on a gate I need 2 scouts and a logistic alt, with the camper thats 4 paid accounts running simultainiously.
CCP loves gate campers.
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1009
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Posted - 2015.03.31 18:02:37 -
[83] - Quote
last time I went roaming I did probably 20 jumps through low without running into a single camp. Think I started it off by jumping into null, can't remember if there was no one there, or just a blob too big to fight. Although a bunch of times I've gone through that same nullsec and not seen a camp. The first fight I got was vs a scythe fleet issue. He couldn't break my tank and I couldn't hit him. eventually I found someone in a belt and got a kill. then took a stupid very probably bait fight because I was done for the night and didn't care, which was stupid as a carrier undocked.
Also I had a lower sp alt in FW, didn't play it much, but when I did I don't think I ever saw a camp.
meh, camps are over rated.
@ChainsawPlankto
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