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Baronn Creel
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:39:37 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
So I have been back in game now for a few weeks after a 2 or 3 year absence. Lots of interesting changes. I have done some exploring in wormholes and some other cool stuff but mostly just getting my space legs back.
One of the things I have been doing is missions in Minnie space, mostly level 3s in a BC. These seem about as hard as I remember. So I decided to update my Maelstrom fit and try L4 missions again.
Now I used to do these with 1400s and a lot of kiting. My fit update included 8 1400s with a selection of ammo, a MJD, AN, x-large ancillary shield booster, invulnerable hardener, 3 gyro 2s, and misc. The fit did fine, no problems surviving. My reason for posting this is an observation I have on the damage needed to destroy things.
I noticed that my 1400s took anywhere from 7 to 10 volleys to kill each BE. And 4-5 volleys for hacs. This made the mission (angel blockade) take a lot longer than I remember these missions taking.
So my question: am I just remembering this wrong, or has our damage or npc toughness actually increased over the years?
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1114
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Posted - 2015.03.29 18:26:18 -
[2] - Quote
maybe your flying is rusty and you're not getting good hits on the ships.
If you're seeing a lot of grazes and barely hits then you're not getting your angular velocity down enough for 1400s to track them.
Other reasons could be: you're using the wrong ammo like EMP vs angels or trying to use short range ammo and rats are out of range.
There's no way a maelstrom should be taking 7-10 volleys per BS, comparably in a tornado I can mostly volley a BS into low armour and I have very poor large projectile skills. |
Baronn Creel
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.03.29 18:48:51 -
[3] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:maybe your flying is rusty and you're not getting good hits on the ships.
If you're seeing a lot of grazes and barely hits then you're not getting your angular velocity down enough for 1400s to track them.
Other reasons could be: you're using the wrong ammo like EMP vs angels or trying to use short range ammo and rats are out of range.
There's no way a maelstrom should be taking 7-10 volleys per BS, comparably in a tornado I can mostly volley a BS into low armour and I have very poor large projectile skills.
Yes, it seemed anemic to me
I am flying away from the targets. Ammo was titanium sabot which I think is good for angels. Guns are all T2
One thing, I had no implants or links etc. Just the ship. Had light drones but did not need them much. Was able to get transversal down on frigs enough to pop them in 1-2 volleys of group of 2 guns. Speaking of which, gun grouping was 4-2-2 |
GordonO
Evil Guinea Pigs
101
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:32:18 -
[4] - Quote
I have never found arty's and /or MJD's to be efficient in missions. Just stick with AC's.
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Baronn Creel
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.03.29 21:21:12 -
[5] - Quote
GordonO wrote:I have never found arty's and /or MJD's to be efficient in missions. Just stick with AC's.
MJD ended up being used to actually get closer to some spawns. Since I was slowboating away so much I ended up 200+ km away from some spawns once I killed the trigger on the current one. Having to get into autocannon range constantly sounds like it would produce its own delays. |
GordonO
Evil Guinea Pigs
101
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Posted - 2015.03.29 21:33:27 -
[6] - Quote
Baronn Creel wrote:GordonO wrote:I have never found arty's and /or MJD's to be efficient in missions. Just stick with AC's.
MJD ended up being used to actually get closer to some spawns. Since I was slowboating away so much I ended up 200+ km away from some spawns once I killed the trigger on the current one. Having to get into autocannon range constantly sounds like it would produce its own delays.
mwd till you in range and kill them... then move to gate.. no fancy triangulation necessary.. but each to his own. And you should at least try it as you don't seem that happy with your current fit.. If you can, get a mach, they cheap these days
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Baronn Creel
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.03.29 22:06:39 -
[7] - Quote
GordonO wrote:Baronn Creel wrote:GordonO wrote:I have never found arty's and /or MJD's to be efficient in missions. Just stick with AC's.
MJD ended up being used to actually get closer to some spawns. Since I was slowboating away so much I ended up 200+ km away from some spawns once I killed the trigger on the current one. Having to get into autocannon range constantly sounds like it would produce its own delays. mwd till you in range and kill them... then move to gate.. no fancy triangulation necessary.. but each to his own. And you should at least try it as you don't seem that happy with your current fit.. If you can, get a mach, they cheap these days
Good point. Will look into that.
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GordonO
Evil Guinea Pigs
101
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Posted - 2015.03.29 22:34:47 -
[8] - Quote
Test server is a good place to play if you worried about loosing ships or want to test fits without the costs.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1114
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Posted - 2015.03.29 22:54:11 -
[9] - Quote
titanium sabot is ok on angels, ideally you want to be using faction fusion and managing your transversal properly. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1006
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Posted - 2015.03.30 01:48:11 -
[10] - Quote
ACs in the blockade just sound like they would be awful. For some missions AC are passable on a mael, but for the most part you want a mach, added mobility and falloff bonus really help, vargur also works.
This is pretty much how I would fit a mael, a bit sp intensive. if you need ideas to scale it back a bit I'd be happy to help. I'd also suggest buying a machariel, they are pretty cheap right now. Also I would get some at least 3% implants, probably focus on gunnery and large projectiles first, the other slots are a bit more open. I think tracking/falloff are in the same slot, if you plan on sticking with arty I'd get tracking, if you plan to try and use ACs more then the falloff one is probably better. [Maelstrom, 1400mm arty pve] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Reactor Control Unit II
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Warrior II x5 Bouncer II x3
@ChainsawPlankto
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Baronn Creel
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.03.30 01:53:47 -
[11] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:ACs in the blockade just sound like they would be awful. For some missions AC are passable on a mael, but for the most part you want a mach, added mobility and falloff bonus really help, vargur also works.
This is pretty much how I would fit a mael, a bit sp intensive. if you need ideas to scale it back a bit I'd be happy to help. I'd also suggest buying a machariel, they are pretty cheap right now. Also I would get some at least 3% implants, probably focus on gunnery and large projectiles first, the other slots are a bit more open. I think tracking/falloff are in the same slot, if you plan on sticking with arty I'd get tracking, if you plan to try and use ACs more then the falloff one is probably better. [Maelstrom, 1400mm arty pve] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Reactor Control Unit II
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Warrior II x5 Bouncer II x3
Thanks for the fit. Couple questions.
Why not x-large ancillary shield booster?
Why sentry drones as opposed to heavy drones?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1006
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:27:28 -
[12] - Quote
Baronn Creel wrote:Why not x-large ancillary shield booster?
Why sentry drones as opposed to heavy drones?
I'm used to flying with standard boosters, and with a cap booster you can keep a booster going for a long time. Additionally I'm wary of using something with 9x uses (and that is with navy 400s, 7x with standard 400s) before needing a minute to reload in a mission. granted in most missions that is probably adequate, but I'd rather stick with the normal shield booster. additionally pith boosters are really cheap right now.
And I like sentry drones as they don't have travel time. with 1400s I tend to not need to move too much, and I can drop sentries and have them attacking the same things my guns are shooting increasing dps on target. also very nice when your guns leave something in low structure, the drones will usually finish it off before you can fire the guns again.
With 1400s I usually script my tracking comps to tracking speed as that is what arty usually needs. better hits are good! but of course for some missions you will want the extra range/falloff as that will let you hit things sooner.
lastly with 1400s I usually don't group them at all. the damage they do is just too high, and the cycle time too long, to have wasted damage. I do group them in the Dread pirate scarlett mission though, as you only get one chance to shoot her the first time you see her so I want as much volley as possible. nice to get that extra 5mil bounty.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.03.30 10:36:34 -
[13] - Quote
Some missions suit different fits, and Blockade (in a Maelstrom) is mission where you never have to chase the NPC's down so (imho) better for 800mm's without any prop mods - thus letting you fit a heavier tank. The waves spawn out of range, if you know the triggers, pop them early, too early and you can get overwhelmed, too late and you will be waiting.
Fitting 1400mm's gets better when you have a tracking speed implant, 4 gyro's, 1 tracking enhancer and two tracking computer II's (speed scripted) Due to the guns range you will need only three types of ammo, Fusion, Phased Plasma and EMP.
Capbooster fits can be a pain in the arse, 800's caps are heavy, often overpriced and difficult to transport in any great quantity (for the average mission runner). Fitting three CCC's and a prop mod is much more efficiant but more skill intensive.
Fitting mods such as 'Reactor Control Units' are sub optimal.
Quick way to hit harder: Get eyes on the ship your shooting, look where it is flying (look at it from behind) and double click 'in space' where it is heading, activate your prop mod and match it speed/direction. |
Baronn Creel
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.03.30 12:25:29 -
[14] - Quote
Thanks for the responses all.
I think what I will try next is a combination of 3 things -
1) Add a Tracking Computer with tracking speed script. I did not have issues with small ships and transversal but maybe it will help on bigger targets more than I expected. Will also pay more attention to large ship transversal
2) use faction ammo
3) use medium or heavy drones on main targets
And who knows, if the targets still take too long to destroy, maybe will try autocannons.
Thanks. |
GordonO
Evil Guinea Pigs
101
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:07:12 -
[15] - Quote
You can of course carry a mobile depo with another set of guns and prop mod and change while in the mission.. best thing to come out of CCP for ages :)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1009
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Posted - 2015.03.30 23:28:06 -
[16] - Quote
Garmyne Atavuli wrote:Some missions suit different fits, and Blockade (in a Maelstrom) is mission where you never have to chase the NPC's down so (imho) better for 800mm's without any prop mods - thus letting you fit a heavier tank. The waves spawn out of range, if you know the triggers, pop them early, too early and you can get overwhelmed, too late and you will be waiting.
Fitting 1400mm's gets better when you have a tracking speed implant, 4 gyro's, 1 tracking enhancer and two tracking computer II's (speed scripted) Due to the guns range you will need only three types of ammo, Fusion, Phased Plasma and EMP.
Capbooster fits can be a pain in the arse, 800's caps are heavy, often overpriced and difficult to transport in any great quantity (for the average mission runner). Fitting three CCC's and a prop mod is much more efficiant but more skill intensive.
Fitting mods such as 'Reactor Control Units' are sub optimal.
Quick way to hit harder: Get eyes on the ship your shooting, look where it is flying (look at it from behind) and double click 'in space' where it is heading, activate your prop mod and match it speed/direction.
In blockade I prefer to be able to hit them as soon as they spawn. luckily angels have a habit of chasing you so that helps a bit, shooting the triggers as soon as you can, and letting the new spawns get in range while you kill the old spawns is probably a pretty good strategy. However I'm not familiar enough with the Angel version of blockade to know, but have a feeling due to the variable ranges of the other versions that I'd prefer arty.
every ship is better with as many damage mods and application mods as possible
luckily cap booster 800 bpos are cheap and quick to research/produce. As for their size, with a bpo each run of ten 800s takes 22.1m3 of minerals and that is without research. Even so, for how many you use a hauler full bought somewhere else will last a pretty long time. and you can always get some sucker to move a stack via a courier contract.
3 ccc's is just a lazy waste of rig slots, and you say a reactor control is sub optimal. Although arty fits need a fitting mod as not much else fits on a malestrom after a rack of 1400s . And I don't think I could ever fly a 1400 boat without a tech 2 burst aerator, cycle time on 1400s is incredibly long, I'll take anything to reduce that. the effect on DPS isn't too bad either.
Manual piloting to reduce transversial is a good thing to be able to do.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.03.31 02:15:39 -
[17] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:In blockade I prefer to be able to hit them as soon as they spawn. luckily angels have a habit of chasing you so that helps a bit, shooting the triggers as soon as you can, and letting the new spawns get in range while you kill the old spawns is probably a pretty good strategy. However I'm not familiar enough with the Angel version of blockade to know, but have a feeling due to the variable ranges of the other versions that I'd prefer arty. every ship is better with as many damage mods and application mods as possible luckily cap booster 800 bpos are cheap and quick to research/produce. As for their size, with a bpo each run of ten 800s takes 22.1m3 of minerals and that is without research. Even so, for how many you use a hauler full bought somewhere else will last a pretty long time. and you can always get some sucker to move a stack via a courier contract. 3 ccc's is just a lazy waste of rig slots, and you say a reactor control is sub optimal. Although arty fits need a fitting mod as not much else fits on a malestrom after a rack of 1400s . And I don't think I could ever fly a 1400 boat without a tech 2 burst aerator, cycle time on 1400s is incredibly long, I'll take anything to reduce that. the effect on DPS isn't too bad either. Manual piloting to reduce transversial is a good thing to be able to do.
I had not noted the Burst Aerator II, so of course with a Projectile Rig you are going to be upping your PG usage massively AND beyond anything a PG implant can negate, so in this case the Reactor Control is necessary. My aplogies |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1010
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Posted - 2015.04.01 01:37:09 -
[18] - Quote
Garmyne Atavuli wrote:I had not noted the Burst Aerator II, so of course with a Projectile Rig you are going to be upping your PG usage massively AND beyond anything a PG implant can negate, so in this case the Reactor Control is necessary. My aplogies
I like my gank
and didn't realize you could fit that much stuff on a maelstrom with only a pg implant
@ChainsawPlankto
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