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Fermin Mascagranzas
Recios Explorer Wing
8
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Posted - 2015.03.30 09:57:23 -
[1] - Quote
Not a big fan of mining, but since Im running wormholes lately I decided to give a try in one of the mining sites found there. My findings were surprising...
When comparing the lowest possible form of mining, veldspar/scordite in ultra highsec 1,0 I see that a full load of a venture takes about 10 minutes and yields near 1mill ISK. This can be done totally afk while playing other game.
When I tried mining Arkonor in a wormhole, the mineral that is described as "The rarest and most sought-after ore in the known universe. A sizable nugget of this can sweep anyone from rags to riches in no time." I found that a full load on the same venture, took exactly the same time, and was worth of... 0,8 mill And this had to be done hitting dscan each 15sec, dealing with the rats, and with the constant risk of losing the ship, the implants and the time.
I am missing something? |
Memphis Baas
271
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Posted - 2015.03.30 10:13:39 -
[2] - Quote
Player-driven market.
Mineral costs used to be set in stone, bought by NPCs, but that injected too much cash into the economy, so CCP got rid of all the NPC buyers. Now you're selling the ore and the minerals to players. So, 1. they may not need Arkonor, and 2. they may be scamming you by buying undervalued. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
458
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Posted - 2015.03.30 11:52:01 -
[3] - Quote
a Couple things to understand. First off CCP has made several adjustments over the years to ore and it's been a long time since ark was guaranteed to be the best ore isk / m3 wise.
http://ore.cerlestes.de/#site:ore
That site that I linked can help you determine which ore is currently the most valuable. Just click on the column labeled "isk" and it will sort by isk / m3 value.
Beyond that the other thing that makes null sec valuable is the boosts and the roid size. So if you are mining by your self and docking up each time you have a full load then you won't notice either of those. However if you are in a mining fleet with haulers taking your ore for you and you are measuring profits in isk / minute then they matter.
When you are mining in high sec in a barge with strip miners and you are finishing off asteroids before your mining lazors can complete a cycle in many cases then your actual yield can be 80% of your theoretical yield or less even. If you are paying very close attention and using roid scanners to time cycles properly you'll be doing very well if you can even get 90% in high sec. In null sec however you can often sit on the same asteroid for very long periods of time without cycling your lazors so you can often get 100% yield.
Beyond that the Rorqual which can not be used in high sec has significantly better boosts than the Orca. Off the top of my head I can't recall exactly what it is and haven't had coffee yet so I'm not about to EFT if but just know it's better.
TL;dr solo mining in a venture measuring isk per volume instead of isk per time frame you won't notice the difference. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
458
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Posted - 2015.03.30 11:57:50 -
[4] - Quote
One thing that I forgot to mention is that most ore charts and most players determine the value of Ore by the value of the minerals that if refines into. So depending on your local market various Ores could diverge from that to varying percentages. So for example vledspar might only be 5% lower than it's refined value and Arkonor could be 8% lower or something like that. Those are made up numbers since we have a player driven market and I don't know what you local market is but you get the point. |
Angel Ichosira
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.30 13:32:08 -
[5] - Quote
Don't mine ore in WH. Get the gas. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4749
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:31:03 -
[6] - Quote
Angel Ichosira wrote:Don't mine ore in WH. Get the gas. ... well, the better gases at least.
With the Odyssey ore changes to nulsec, they get Tritanium by mining high-ends, and they need a LOT of Tritanium in nulsec. As a result, there is a glut of Megacyte. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1117
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:55:55 -
[7] - Quote
Also something nobody has mentioned yet: arkonor is a LOT bigger than veldspar, 1 unit of arkonor is 16m3 whereas veldspar is 0.1m3
obviously that means you can fit 1/160th worth of arkonor in a venture compared to veldspar and thus the price disparity
If you compare arkonor and veldspar unit by unit, arkonor is by far the more valuable, this means fleet mining arkonor when someone is hauling the ore off while you mine is much more profitable than doing veldspar as veldspar will run out far more quickly. |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
117
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:03:47 -
[8] - Quote
If you're mining in nullsec, by the way, it might not be worth shipping it back to empire to sell. You either sell locally or refine and use the minerals to manufacture stuff. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5781
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Posted - 2015.03.31 00:51:51 -
[9] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Also something nobody has mentioned yet: arkonor is a LOT bigger than veldspar, 1 unit of arkonor is 16m3 whereas veldspar is 0.1m3
obviously that means you can fit 1/160th worth of arkonor in a venture compared to veldspar and thus the price disparity
If you compare arkonor and veldspar unit by unit, arkonor is by far the more valuable, this means fleet mining arkonor when someone is hauling the ore off while you mine is much more profitable than doing veldspar as veldspar will run out far more quickly.
Yeah no.
What matters to a miner is ISK/m3, since mining lasers will pull in a fixed volume of ore per cycle. The number of units of ore is rounded down, which can complicate matters to a slight degree.
The main reason Arkonor is worth less than veldspar is that there is more of it being mined than is actually needed. As for veldspar, it is always in demand due to the sheer volumes of tritanium required for any manufacturing line. Typically, hisec miners will find the best returns on pyroxeres due to the value of nocxium.
The rest of the story comes down to the spreadsheets telling you which ore is actually most valuable per cubic metre, and your willingness to go find it.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Fermin Mascagranzas
Recios Explorer Wing
8
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Posted - 2015.03.31 05:18:15 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks a lot for the answers! |
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1124
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Posted - 2015.04.01 23:58:53 -
[11] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Also something nobody has mentioned yet: arkonor is a LOT bigger than veldspar, 1 unit of arkonor is 16m3 whereas veldspar is 0.1m3
obviously that means you can fit 1/160th worth of arkonor in a venture compared to veldspar and thus the price disparity
If you compare arkonor and veldspar unit by unit, arkonor is by far the more valuable, this means fleet mining arkonor when someone is hauling the ore off while you mine is much more profitable than doing veldspar as veldspar will run out far more quickly. Yeah no. What matters to a miner is ISK/m3, since mining lasers will pull in a fixed volume of ore per cycle. The number of units of ore is rounded down, which can complicate matters to a slight degree. The main reason Arkonor is worth less than veldspar is that there is more of it being mined than is actually needed. As for veldspar, it is always in demand due to the sheer volumes of tritanium required for any manufacturing line. Typically, hisec miners will find the best returns on pyroxeres due to the value of nocxium. The rest of the story comes down to the spreadsheets telling you which ore is actually most valuable per cubic metre, and your willingness to go find it.
Not at all. You only get a certain amount of veldspar per rock until it dies so unless you have 0 competition for veldspar and can mine non-stop, arkonor makes sense if you have it at hand. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
50
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Posted - 2015.04.02 07:22:13 -
[12] - Quote
Mr. Baas, that is soon changing - The Glory days of Arkonor mining Nullsec, and now Wormhole mining are returning in Force.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413509&find=unread
My analysis puts Zydrine and Megacyte to 3,000 and 5,400 ISK per unit, respectivelly, this Summer, and perhaps even more by the end of the year.
Tritanium, Pyerite and Mexallon are currently under-supplied due to unrealistically ballooned demand, hence over-priced, however that is soon changing, as the need for capital ship blobs, presumably, goes away, along with reduced Freighter traffic from nullsec, which used to carry useful cargo both ways.
The bubbles in Pyerite and Mexallon are most prevalent, and will be corrected most violently.
Lowsec mining might actually become a thing again, as well.
All-in-all, Life is returning to New Eden - You better believe it. |
Memphis Baas
278
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:31:38 -
[13] - Quote
Well, we shall see if the current industrialists are willing to take their blueprints to 0.0 outposts that will soon be converted to the new structure system, which will force them to move their blueprints and production chains again. But, ok. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
462
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:46:14 -
[14] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Well, we shall see if the current industrialists are willing to take their blueprints to 0.0 outposts that will soon be converted to the new structure system, which will force them to move their blueprints and production chains again. But, ok. It would seem that instead of using the carrot on a stick method CCP sounds like they just want to beat you with the stick.
From a big picture perspective these upcoming changes make no sense to me when taken as a whole. If you look at them individually some of the changes seem to make a lot of sense but when you put it all together it makes no sense to me at all. My guess is that any null sec space with in one cyno jump range of any NPC station, be it null or low or high sec, will become much busier than any other sov null.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5783
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Posted - 2015.04.06 12:12:44 -
[15] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Well, we shall see if the current industrialists are willing to take their blueprints to 0.0 outposts that will soon be converted to the new structure system, which will force them to move their blueprints and production chains again. But, ok.
Why would the blueprints be anywhere other than hisec? Sure, copy the blueprint to take the BPC out to nullsec. Then when it gets lost/stolen/exploded, you can tell everyone that it was just the backup copy and you didn't really need it anyway.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Freya Sertan
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
17
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Posted - 2015.04.06 16:29:12 -
[16] - Quote
Veldspar. Veldspar is the reason to mine in highsec. |
Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
27
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Posted - 2015.04.08 02:05:24 -
[17] - Quote
You also get more minerals when you refine your ore in nullsec. If you are mining to manufacture things, some minerals are not in hisec ore.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
96
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Posted - 2015.04.23 19:50:21 -
[18] - Quote
I can't believe people haven't mentioned the most obvious responses to the OP.
Mining in hi-sec is safer, and because of low reward for mining in low-sec, the ease at which players get equivalent minerals to low-sec from very safe null-sec and trade with hi-sec, means you can't offset your risks and costs in hauling and ship losses to pirates in lowsec.
Mine hi-sec or null-sec.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
586
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Posted - 2015.04.23 20:03:04 -
[19] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Mine hi-sec or null-sec. In a WH, if you get capped, its even worse than being hit in low-sec, because you can't save your pod or come back for your remains if pirates/gankers/griefers leave them there.
If you don't save your pod in w-space either somebody REALLY wanted that pod kill or you were dumb and didn't set up your bookmarks around your exit route correctly. Someone pulling out a full-on bubble gank at a site is a bit too much of a waste of effort to be all that common. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
96
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Posted - 2015.04.24 03:39:48 -
[20] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Mine hi-sec or null-sec. In a WH, if you get capped, its even worse than being hit in low-sec, because you can't save your pod or come back for your remains if pirates/gankers/griefers leave them there. If you don't save your pod in w-space either somebody REALLY wanted that pod kill or you were dumb and didn't set up your bookmarks around your exit route correctly. Someone pulling out a full-on bubble gank at a site is a bit too much of a waste of effort to be all that common.
Happened all the time to me.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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