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Chen Chillin
Deep Structure. The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2015.04.11 01:07:07 -
[301] - Quote
along with all of this excellent point and counter point.. lets add... Hey CCP you want more 0.0 Sov? get rid of NPC 0.0 Stations.
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Tejoe Nightstar
Society of Mechanics Engineers and Gearheads
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 01:56:08 -
[302] - Quote
Chen Chillin wrote:along with all of this excellent point and counter point.. lets add... Hey CCP you want more 0.0 Sov? get rid of NPC 0.0 Stations.
I'd rather that CCP adds 6 to 8 new regions that have to be found through something similar to deep probes (from way back when), possibly augmented by the new Observatory Arrays. |
d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
120
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Posted - 2015.04.11 01:58:20 -
[303] - Quote
Royally wrote:I think GSF pilots are too confident in their ability to hold onto all of their space because "numbers and organization". Sure, I'm 100% certain that the absolutely critical areas will receive adequate coverage, but it'll be impossible to hold onto all the outlying regions when the entrance bar gets lowered this much.
Its basicly a case of having a far shorter "warmup" phase prior to flipping a system here and there. I'm certain the CFC could deploy 5 or 6 full fleets if they have to, but that wont be enough when you have 10 to 15 flies swatting at sov in 7 different constellations. They could be engaged ofcourse, but unless one chooses to concentrate on one or two groups, they wont be horribly outblobbed anywhere.
That is why I think the pessimistic fozziesov predictions made in here are bogus.
The most powerful fleet will still win, true. The side that comes early and prepares blockades on all relevant gates in an area will also enjoy a distinct advantage. But the entire point of fozziesov is that the attacker can decide to just ignore the area they were going to attack and where you just piled all your active people in. They can then move in smaller groups and engage two different constellations. What will your fleets do then? Pick one to defend or split up? That will be a choice to be made. Especially considering the fact that whilst you can rely on several fleets on a regular basis for a big coalition, you cant rely on people keeping that up for months indefinately.
LOL have you looked which alliance you are in? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6708
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Posted - 2015.04.11 03:19:50 -
[304] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:Royally wrote:I think GSF pilots are too confident in their ability to hold onto all of their space because "numbers and organization". Sure, I'm 100% certain that the absolutely critical areas will receive adequate coverage, but it'll be impossible to hold onto all the outlying regions when the entrance bar gets lowered this much.
Its basicly a case of having a far shorter "warmup" phase prior to flipping a system here and there. I'm certain the CFC could deploy 5 or 6 full fleets if they have to, but that wont be enough when you have 10 to 15 flies swatting at sov in 7 different constellations. They could be engaged ofcourse, but unless one chooses to concentrate on one or two groups, they wont be horribly outblobbed anywhere.
That is why I think the pessimistic fozziesov predictions made in here are bogus.
The most powerful fleet will still win, true. The side that comes early and prepares blockades on all relevant gates in an area will also enjoy a distinct advantage. But the entire point of fozziesov is that the attacker can decide to just ignore the area they were going to attack and where you just piled all your active people in. They can then move in smaller groups and engage two different constellations. What will your fleets do then? Pick one to defend or split up? That will be a choice to be made. Especially considering the fact that whilst you can rely on several fleets on a regular basis for a big coalition, you cant rely on people keeping that up for months indefinately. LOL have you looked which alliance you are in? Yeah. We can't keep mobile fleets up for months indefinitely
But Moa can.
... our 0.0 nightmare will be ended by such people huh
Not like we can sustain larger numbers always simply because we're larger in general or anything... not like people larger than moa haven't found this out in borefests. But hey.
Shooting EntosisHitPoints will be different
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Raphael Celestine
Celestine Inc.
65
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Posted - 2015.04.11 10:22:28 -
[305] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Yeah. We can't keep mobile fleets up for months indefinitely But Moa can. ... our 0.0 nightmare will be ended by such people huh Not like we can sustain larger numbers always simply because we're larger in general or anything... not like people larger than moa haven't found this out in borefests. But hey. Shooting EntosisHitPoints will be different The CFC is very, very good at putting numbers on the field and keeping them there - there's no question about that. I doubt that many attackers can match you one-to-one with 255-man cap fleets at all, let alone keep doing so for longer than you can.
I can believe that Moa or someone like them could field two or three 30-man cruiser fleets (or BLOPs gangs, or interceptor wings...) for each CFC 255-man cap fleet, and keep those in the field essentially indefinitely.
The question then is whether those 30-man fleets can use their superior mobility to beat the defenders to enough of the capture nodes to pose a serious threat. There's no way they'll win any contest that a defending heavy fleet gets to, but they've got at least five possible targets at any one time, spread over half-a-dozen potential systems, respawning in locations that the defenders cannot predict in advance. At that point, 'drop so much force that the defenders can't engage' starts looking a lot less like a guaranteed victory.
Of course, that's assuming only one defending heavy fleet. No doubt the CFC could field half-a-dozen at once if they really needed to - enough to dedicate one to each possible capture node, and still have forces left to camp the gates. That should be enough to guarantee victory against virtually any attack... any one attack.
What happens when Gevlon digs a little deeper into his warchest and hires mercenaries to attack five constellations at once? When WH corps are hitting OAs behind the front lines at the same time, to weaken the defences against raiders looking for ratters to hunt? When half-a-dozen NPC-null groups see the chaos, and decide to pile in and see how many mining/customs office kill-mails they can extract?
"Numbers and organisation" can win a war very effectively. If you mobilise them against a specific enemy, you're 100% right in saying that you either wouldn't lose any space at all, or would just take it back immediately. But winning a war is one thing; stamping out brushfires is another one entirely. When the barrier to entry for attacking sov is a handful of subcaps, large coalitions aren't going to have the luxury of mobilising all their forces against a single target, they're going to be playing whack-a-mole against an endless stream of smaller groups, with new ones always waiting in the wings to take over as the old ones get bored or run out of resources. They might not have much chance of actually holdling sov once they take it, but they'll come anyway - there's always someone convinced that they're going to be the lucky one-in-a-thousand who does. And others won't even try - they'll attack because "GRRR GOONS", or for the fights, or just to watch the world burn... |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
353
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Posted - 2015.04.11 12:22:09 -
[306] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote:Think of it like this. You run the other fleet off grid, but they leave a scout on grid and see that some of the ships have started activating the entosis link. The defenders then switch into a) bombers b) Sniper ABCs c) Sniper HACs d) CODE gank cats e) gank comets f) DERPTRONS! etc and proceed to gank all of the entosis linking ships because they're stuck on grid and can't receive reps.
You hold the grid, but the defenders still have every chance to make you not be able to capture the node. That's exactly why remote reps can't be used because the give the defender a chance even thought you have thousands of ships all set up with sentries out. Now if you start using your titans to capture the node....well lets just hope PL/other Super Cap entity gets wind and is interested.
If the enemy can come on grid and blap off your Entosis ships then you're not actually controlling grid, are you? You controlled the grid, but the enemy came on and changed that. At that point you have to react. Maybe you put something tankier on Entosis duty, maybe you throw up bubbles, catch their fleet, and blap it off the grid.
It's not like we're talking about one ship showing up and shooting your Frigate that's the lynch pin of the whole cap, you can be running this thing off of an over-tanked Command Ship, HIC, or T3 easily.
Varyah wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
because otherwise you will have fleets of 1 t3 and 50 logis ignoring the defenders and simply drilling trough the capture points.
There won't be any drilling because the defenders only need to tank 1 t3 and whatever dps 50 logis can do, which won't be much. So absolutely no problem tanking such a fleet and keeping your entosis up as well, i.e. at the worst: deadlock. But then again if both sides can't break the opposing fleet then neither side has control of the grid which is what we want to measure.
The counter to 50 Logi and 1 T3 is 25 Griffins, 10 T1 Logi cruisers, and a Bhaalgorn. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 14:38:31 -
[307] - Quote
lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
820
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:13:10 -
[308] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys
First: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms? Second: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms without anyone putting up resistance?
As of right now, there's 635 online in GSF alliance chat. I wonder how high that will go with an emergency CTA ping... |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:21:09 -
[309] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:MeBiatch wrote:lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys First: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms? Second: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms without anyone putting up resistance? As of right now, there's 635 online in GSF alliance chat. I wonder how high that will go with an emergency CTA ping...
they dont have to reinforce 370 annoms... they have to reinforce things like ihubs and outposts which spawn 10 capture annoms each.
lets say cfc is busy in delve and a group of players take advantage of the primetime and reinforce all of the rfy constellation that will result in 370 caputure annoms when reinforce is done...
now lets say that time is the same time that a caputre for nol is going on... now the cfc has to split its forces once between nol and rfy and then 13 more times to caputre the annoms...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
820
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:50:29 -
[310] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:MeBiatch wrote:lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys First: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms? Second: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms without anyone putting up resistance? As of right now, there's 635 online in GSF alliance chat. I wonder how high that will go with an emergency CTA ping... they dont have to reinforce 370 annoms... they have to reinforce things like ihubs and outposts which spawn 10 capture annoms each. lets say cfc is busy in delve and a group of players take advantage of the primetime and reinforce all of the rfy constellation that will result in 370 caputure annoms when reinforce is done... now lets say that time is the same time that a caputre for nol is going on... now the cfc has to split its forces once between nol and rfy and then 13 more times to caputre the annoms...
What part of "GSF has 12,443 members do people not understand? We can field 48 255-man fleets if needed. Our coalition has god-knows how many members. Do people honestly think that we cannot defend our Sov, or steamroll others? |
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 17:04:26 -
[311] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:MeBiatch wrote:lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys First: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms? Second: How do you think they'll reinforce 370 anoms without anyone putting up resistance? As of right now, there's 635 online in GSF alliance chat. I wonder how high that will go with an emergency CTA ping... they dont have to reinforce 370 annoms... they have to reinforce things like ihubs and outposts which spawn 10 capture annoms each. lets say cfc is busy in delve and a group of players take advantage of the primetime and reinforce all of the rfy constellation that will result in 370 caputure annoms when reinforce is done... now lets say that time is the same time that a caputre for nol is going on... now the cfc has to split its forces once between nol and rfy and then 13 more times to caputre the annoms... What part of "GSF has 12,443 members do people not understand? We can field 48 255-man fleets if needed. Our coalition has god-knows how many members. Do people honestly think that we cannot defend our Sov, or steamroll others?
Honestly if you guys can pull off 48 full fleets you win eve... do i think it will happen? no... most fleets i have seen from cfc is what like 5-6 full fleets?
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
820
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 18:40:37 -
[312] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Honestly if you guys can pull off 48 full fleets you win eve... do i think it will happen? no... most fleets i have seen from cfc is what like 5-6 full fleets?
Still more than enough if we split those fleets into smaller groups and drive out whoever is trying to take our SOV. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2067
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 19:05:03 -
[313] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Honestly if you guys can pull off 48 full fleets you win eve... do i think it will happen? no... most fleets i have seen from cfc is what like 5-6 full fleets? Still more than enough if we split those fleets into smaller groups and drive out whoever is trying to take our SOV.
255*6 = 1530 people now lets say you split those even between those 13 systems now thats 117 per system and even less per annom... that is low enough for a medium sized force to engage... basically what i am saying is the new system is going to make small to medium high skilled forces rather effective.
I am just saying you might have more fights then you anticipate... especially if you think you are going to steam roll the south and leave the north un protected...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6709
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 22:08:31 -
[314] - Quote
Some people are oddly desperate to defend their fantasy of ending our 0.0 dream nightmare.
Relax.
CCP has you covered.
Lasers.
If it doesn't work out I'm sure there'll be some "rebalancing" to give you new hope. Maybe making everyone more tired or something like that.
Gate jumping fatigue that interceptors get a role bonus to the reduction of.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Wanda Fayne
Gurlz with Gunz
76
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Posted - 2015.04.11 23:32:45 -
[315] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Some people are oddly desperate to defend their fantasy of ending our 0.0 dream nightmare.
Relax.
CCP has you covered.
Lasers.
If it doesn't work out I'm sure there'll be some "rebalancing" to give you new hope. Maybe making everyone more tired or something like that.
Gate jumping fatigue that interceptors get a role bonus to the reduction of.
Maybe you could rent out those lasers? |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2241
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 00:44:16 -
[316] - Quote
what page did this become a epeen swinging competition? |
Anhenka
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
1383
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 00:52:19 -
[317] - Quote
Rowells wrote:what page did this become a epeen swinging competition?
1 |
d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
121
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 01:15:33 -
[318] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys
I saw a move-OP with over 1000 supers and caps a few weeks ago. Those were alts in CFC moving SOME of their caps and supers to fountain.
Multiple of those OPs happened during that week with similar numbers.
So yes, CFC can hold its sov. Just like the other large coalitions can.
Those new changes will only reinforce teamwork between alliances. So.... Bigger coalitions will form. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
232
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 01:23:50 -
[319] - Quote
Absent further information, the respectable participants of this completely non-biased, non-Illusions de Grandeur discussion have determined the following TL;DR:
Bigger Better.
BUT THEY'RE BRINGING IN RIFTERS, MAN - Rifters! \m/
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6710
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 03:05:16 -
[320] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:MeBiatch wrote:lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys I saw a move-OP with over 1000 supers and caps a few weeks ago. Those were alts in CFC moving SOME of their caps and supers to fountain. Multiple of those OPs happened during that week with similar numbers. So yes, CFC can hold its sov. Just like the other large coalitions can. Those new changes will only reinforce teamwork between alliances. So.... Bigger coalitions will form. People make amazing assumptions about how many FCs we have. Maybe you should come down with a sov laser and see deklein
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Sarah Eginald
Git-R-Done Logistics Git-R-Done Inc
2
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Posted - 2015.04.12 03:45:08 -
[321] - Quote
I hope these changes might make it easier for smaller groups to take sov. Not because of superior force but lack of interest in the large powers to keep outer non crucial systems.
An example would be say a non useful that does not have any high value moons. A small alliance can take the system. The larger alliance may keep them neutral but not take the system back because it gives them targets to kill. The smaller alliance would have a foothold in null sec.
Also larger alliances can use the small alliances as buffer against invasion from another large group.
Most alliances that may want to take sov would be no match for the mega alliances and coalitions like the CFC or any other mega alliance. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2242
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 05:26:02 -
[322] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:MeBiatch wrote:lets say every ihub/tcu/outpost in the RFY constellation in deklein gets reinforced. how would the CFC defend up to 370 capture annoms over 13 systems? and this is just one constellation lets say that the entire deklein region gets reinforced that would be well over 1000 caputre events... that would spread those large fleets rather thin if you ask me... making smaller 3rd party high skill level pvp alliances viable. vs the 1000 people on one grid f1 monkeys I saw a move-OP with over 1000 supers and caps a few weeks ago. Those were alts in CFC moving SOME of their caps and supers to fountain. Multiple of those OPs happened during that week with similar numbers. So yes, CFC can hold its sov. Just like the other large coalitions can. Those new changes will only reinforce teamwork between alliances. So.... Bigger coalitions will form. Goons holding dek? sure.
CFC members keeping the same level of control in their own space? not so much.
E: unless, of course, every current sov holding entity sets aside their differences and focuses efforts against non-sov holders. That would be, to say the least, an interesting development. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31009
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 06:56:53 -
[323] - Quote
Why Entosis?
Fozzie, it's still unclear in my mind why Entosis is being picked as the way forward. Perhaps if I explain my interpretation of Entosis, you can help me fill in the blanks.
1. Compared to what is currently required for flipping Sov, Entosis as a module is incredibly OP.
2. To balance the OP-ness of Entosis, Entosis vulnerability is limited to a small time window.
You've mentioned your dislike of EHP based objectives, and I can understand that. I disagree with it, but I understand the sentiment.
Military control of the grid is mentioned as a key aspect of Entosis, but it's already a component of Sov and ownership warfare. It's not a revolutionary thing that Entosis will enable.
The popular belief and often stated justification for Entosis is the scalability (based on the defending force). But. Like military control, I don't think defensive scalability is unique to Entosis either. I don't understand why it's cited as being new to Entosis.
It seems to me that you're removing the EHP grind, and leaving the timers in place. Of the two, the timers are by far the least engaging aspect of Sov gameplay, but they're being left alone. (?)
Why are you not going with a solution that reduces both the EHP grind and timers equally? Why Entosis?
The potential for griefing is going to be a lot higher with Entosis. At least with the renter business model, there is a commitment to defend systems by a type of allied force, however weak. I mean, station services harassment and extortion is about to become a legitimate profession.
You can make Sov warfare more linear right now, without involving Entosis. Disconnect station ownership from sov like you plan to do with Entosis, and simplify the timers between shield, and armor, and onlining.
To put it simply, there are ways within Dominion sov to reward the defending force willing to put up a fight. The consequences are already bad enough for not maintaining an active presence in sov. If you're not already following what nearly happened in ED-L9T, NC came within 2 minutes of losing Sov to a group of 20 Ishtars. On two separate TCU timers.
Which, by the way, were the only four minutes that NC was present in that system in four days.
Timers in general, and invulnerability... imo... are indications of sloppy game design and room for improvement. Invulnerability is video game make-believe in its purest form. Surely, there are better ways to reward defenders for fighting until they have zero military control. In contrast, timers allow players to log out, instead of being active and engaging. (why are timers OK?)
Are you sure it's a worthwhile change to enable small groups to take and hold Sov? The way I see it, lowering the barrier to entry only makes it easier to gain a false sense of hope. The players who occupy most sov systems are renters, and these are the very same people who will occupy sov systems post-Entosis.
Do you know they do things like attempt to repair station services with ratting carriers that are either so unskilled or afraid of four or five Ishtars (without logi) to risk a single Triage cycle? They're using T1 logi drones on Thanatoses at undock. Is this the group you should be catering to?
At least with EHP objectives, progress scales with the force committed to killing a structure. Timers are absolute no matter what size force you have, big or small.
EHP objectives are decent, compared to timers. Timers that pause the game and give no incentive for being logged in. I mean, I'm there in space, looking to interact with the game, but when I attempt to lock a structure during a timer, I get a popup telling me there is no gameplay to be had... despite my presence being uncontested.
I want to affect someone, but I can't, despite having 100% military control of the grid. It's about to be this way across all systems owned by an alliance, 20 hours of the day?
This took less than an hour just now, Sisi of course. Undisturbed. But it's the situation you hope to fix with Entosis, right? If you leave the timers in place, are you really changing anything? http://i.imgur.com/qXFdgXS.png
Don't you think SBU timers are enough warning? You know how jump fatigue reduced the radius of help that can arrive to an engagement, and effectively made EVE bigger? By reducing timers, you could have a similar effect--by allowing less time for reinforcements to arrive, you localize sov. In other words, too much invulnerability time and warning begins to negate what you tried to make happen with jump fatigue.
Why would you limit jump drive use but still allow days for reinforcements to form? The only explanation I can think of is wanting gate travel to happen, as if that is a strong indicator of health and activity. But really, all you accomplish is more gate use and not much else. (was this a result of game balancing based on statistics? I think maybe yes, too much importance was placed on gate travel, and it became the only thing you achieved?)
If you want sov ownership to reflect occupancy, don't give organizations 2 days to get their ships moved?
Help, I can't download EVE
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Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
821
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 13:26:44 -
[324] - Quote
Sarah Eginald wrote:I hope these changes might make it easier for smaller groups to take sov. Not because of superior force but lack of interest in the large powers to keep outer non crucial systems. An example would be say a non useful that does not have any high value moons. A small alliance can take the system. The larger alliance may keep them neutral but not take the system back because it gives them targets to kill. The smaller alliance would have a foothold in null sec. Also larger alliances can use the small alliances as buffer against invasion from another large group. Most alliances that may want to take sov would be no match for the mega alliances and coalitions like the CFC or any other mega alliance.
The problem you run into is, "what's a non-crucial system"? With R64 and JBs involved, every system has the potential to be extremely useful. Every system of Sov we own is it's own buffer, and we already have some "meatshields", so to speak. GSF wont let people take "non-crucial" systems because they can turn into alliances. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
239
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 13:40:28 -
[325] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: Military control of the grid is mentioned as a key aspect of Entosis, but it's already a component of Sov and ownership warfare. It's not a revolutionary thing that Entosis will enable.
It rather is.
You discount the other new mechanics, which will require accomplishing simultaneous objectives over, say, a constellation.
Spread out, escalate in one place, detract from an another, and possibly lose everything in the end.
Rain6637 wrote: The potential for griefing is going to be a lot higher with Entosis. At least with the renter business model, there is a commitment to defend systems by a type of allied force, however weak. I mean, station services harassment and extortion is about to become a legitimate profession.
Tell me more.
Been there, done that.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31009
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 14:04:09 -
[326] - Quote
The interesting thing about the constellation mechanic is the new requirement for a constellation coordinator type of player. Or, the gang you see pictured that had just finished reinforcing every structure in a system...
That's all me. Instead of having a high DPS setup using dreads, I can split myself over several systems with an entosis module on each ship, and handle business that way.
Really, it changes very little to spread things out over a wider area, in the name of military control.
Help, I can't download EVE
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
241
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:17:21 -
[327] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: That's all me. Instead of having a high DPS setup using dreads, I can split myself over several systems with an entosis module on each ship, and handle business that way.
Fozzie OP Greate Success then.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31010
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:26:28 -
[328] - Quote
In that podcast interview with the EVE Down Under crew, Fozzie was asked this same question (more or less), of why Entosis. He didn't give a direct answer, and instead asked the question "how is it worse than what we have now?" In my opinion, it's underhanded to throw the question back at the interviewers like that, and put them on the spot to justify Entosis sov when they asked the question first, and Fozzie is the subject matter expert among them.
Truth is I don't expect a direct answer.
Help, I can't download EVE
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
241
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:43:06 -
[329] - Quote
I still think POS spam & ensuing dynamics was the pinnacle of Eve around the Bob times, which incidentally, is around when player PCU numbers started to peak, following the biggest player expansion ever.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
We're currently back to those PCU levels of the year 2008-2009.
Another thing that old system was good at: Making logistics and actual geography of regions, constellations and supply lines matter.
Anyone remember baby Titans being aborted?
Good times.
I hope we can reach & exceed that Era in every way.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Sarah Eginald
Git-R-Done Logistics Git-R-Done Inc
2
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:56:17 -
[330] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Sarah Eginald wrote:I hope these changes might make it easier for smaller groups to take sov. Not because of superior force but lack of interest in the large powers to keep outer non crucial systems. An example would be say a non useful that does not have any high value moons. A small alliance can take the system. The larger alliance may keep them neutral but not take the system back because it gives them targets to kill. The smaller alliance would have a foothold in null sec. Also larger alliances can use the small alliances as buffer against invasion from another large group. Most alliances that may want to take sov would be no match for the mega alliances and coalitions like the CFC or any other mega alliance. The problem you run into is, "what's a non-crucial system"? With R64 and JBs involved, every system has the potential to be extremely useful. Every system of Sov we own is it's own buffer, and we already have some "meatshields", so to speak. GSF wont let people take "non-crucial" systems because they can turn into alliances.
As far as non crucial system I think this will have to be determined by the alliance. Alliance leader that hold sov would maybe have a series of systems they want to keep and ones they don't. I think the whole point of this is so smaller groups can get sov
The only other way to make null sec more accessible to smaller alliances would be to get rid of moon mining period and change the materials to a new type of asteroids that can re spawn to be mined. The only reason large tracks of sov is held is because of moon goo.
Or get make new null sec that has no harvest-able moons in it. |
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