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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
262
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:40:55 -
[271] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
It'll differ from ship to ship, mainly depending on how big the mass difference is (pretty big in this case). At the end of the day we're more focused on getting an interesting variety of ships than in following any specific patterns rigidly.
I love that your not thinking with blinkers on but im worried with all the recent balance changes we are losing the racial uniqueness of the ships.... Theres so little gap between some ships you could mistake one for the other
Whut? Puhhleeze. Have you seen my calculations with the new shipmass?
And,
Defense Mode:
66.6% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty while Defense Mode is active
P. racially-motivated, I'd say. At least now, there will be actual benefit of the above bonus.
Ned Thomas wrote:Ok, could someone be kind enough to tell me how the damage role bonus and the damage bonus from the tactical destroy level stack up?
Same exact DPS, same exact Alpha as before.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Arthur Aihaken
Jormungand Corporation
4348
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:41:51 -
[272] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:So we've come up with a second iteration of these changes, using a slightly more invasive set of adjustments. To reduce the impact of extremely high fittings while continuing to keep long range weapons competitive with short range weapons we are proposing a change to the turrets of the Confessor and Svipul. Both would lose 2 turrets (going to 4) but gain a new +50% damage role bonus to keep DPS the same. How will this affect the Caldari and Gallant T3 Destroyers?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
21
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:42:39 -
[273] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote: Fozzie, it seems odd that the Amarran ship is faster than the Minmatar one. Is that intentional?
There's a higher base speed on the Confessor, but the lower mass on the Svipul ensures that it's faster with prop mods on. High base speed but high mass to temper that speed is a feature of a lot of the Amarrian ships that we've rebalanced recently. But faster than a Minmatar ship? If memory serves me, Minmatar ships usually have a higher base speed as well as lower mass. Base speed for Amarr ships is usually a couple percent slower than Minmatar base speed for comparable ships.
Unfortunately, this is a consequence of the exploitation by Amarr of Minmatar slave labor and skllset. Join the Minarchist Revolution, and help do something against this unsettling trend.
Speaker of Chao3
Porte Parole de Chao3
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
262
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:44:12 -
[274] - Quote
Wow, it seems, I'll have to do a calc for the Confessor as well to prove that Svipul is the faster one.
Standby.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1567
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:45:31 -
[275] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Ok, could someone be kind enough to tell me how the damage role bonus and the damage bonus from the tactical destroy level stack up? multiplicative pretend the ship has 6 guns worth of damage and go from there
Gracias.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1260
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:01:53 -
[276] - Quote
Two utility highs... Let's all say it together..
Assault frigates... Rest in pieces.
Yaay!!!!
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
786
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:03:09 -
[277] - Quote
muuuuch better changes
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
264
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:03:59 -
[278] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:muuuuch better changes
Just you wait.
Must first fit 10MN... then calculate new thrust with this mass.
Curious, Curious.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
86
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:06:10 -
[279] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Bagehi wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote: Fozzie, it seems odd that the Amarran ship is faster than the Minmatar one. Is that intentional?
There's a higher base speed on the Confessor, but the lower mass on the Svipul ensures that it's faster with prop mods on. High base speed but high mass to temper that speed is a feature of a lot of the Amarrian ships that we've rebalanced recently. But faster than a Minmatar ship? If memory serves me, Minmatar ships usually have a higher base speed as well as lower mass. Base speed for Amarr ships is usually a couple percent slower than Minmatar base speed for comparable ships. It'll differ from ship to ship, mainly depending on how big the mass difference is (pretty big in this case). At the end of the day we're more focused on getting an interesting variety of ships than in following any specific patterns rigidly. Svipul still ends up being the more agile, higher dps, faster, more tanked ship of the two. Confessor was already a tight fit, the fitting changes seem to hurt the Confessor more than the Svipul, even though the Svipul seems the more dominant ship to begin with. Maybe I'm missing an in-game use where the Confessor deserved to be punished more than the Svipul?
The confessor used to have enough grid to be able to squeeze on a 10MN MWD and a rack of gatling pulses if you filled the lows and rigs with T2 fitting mods. It's a hilarious single-purpose fit (to kill interceptors that aren't paying enough attention), but it made significant use of the fitting space that was provided to put beam lasers on. (It also beat out the Svipul for this because it was something like 15% more agile in speed mode.) I haven't run the numbers, but I assume one goal is to make a fit like that impossible. |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
786
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:07:12 -
[280] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:muuuuch better changes Just you wait. Must first fit 10MN... then calculate new thrust with this mass. Curious, Curious.
T2 10mn AB w/ nanofibre on Svipul in speed mode: 2567 (3588) without implants or bonuses.
T2 10mn AB on Confessor in speed mode: 2259 (3144) without implants or bonuses.
The most important thing to take away from this is that a tracking bonused Cruiser can now HIT these things more reliably when scram/webbed.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
786
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:07:59 -
[281] - Quote
Ranamar wrote:The confessor used to have enough grid to be able to squeeze on a 10MN MWD and a rack of gatling pulses if you filled the lows and rigs with T2 fitting mods. It's a hilarious single-purpose fit (to kill interceptors that aren't paying enough attention), but it made significant use of the fitting space that was provided to put beam lasers on. (It also beat out the Svipul for this because it was something like 15% more agile in speed mode.) I haven't run the numbers, but I assume one goal is to make a fit like that impossible.
It still fits, and if you want to, you can squeeze a nos on there as well.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire Great Blue Balls of Fire
599
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:08:58 -
[282] - Quote
I'm bad at maths so i just went in and changed pyfa's db. Nerf to speed isn't bad at all even tho its 25% on base velocity so it looks bad. Old Svipul fit was goin ~3450m/s new one goin 3231m/s with mwd
Blue-Fire Best Fire
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
265
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:15:53 -
[283] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:muuuuch better changes Just you wait. Must first fit 10MN... then calculate new thrust with this mass. Curious, Curious. T2 10mn AB w/ nanofibre on Svipul in speed mode: 2567 (3588) without implants or bonuses.
Nope.
Quote:[Svipul, New Setup 1 copy 1] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Warp Scrambler II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Small Ancillary Current Router II Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
3039 / 4558 m/s OH m/s.
Xaxaxa.
No Links.
Xaxaxa.
No Quafe.
Xaxaxaxa.
10MN AB, 372 DPS with dual MASB.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûäGûäGûäGûäGûÇGûÇGûÇGûÇGûÇGûÇGûÇGûÇGûäGûäGûäGûäGûäGûä GûæGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûæGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûæGûæGûÇGûÇGûä GûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûÆGûÆGûÆGûæGûæGûê GûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûäGûêGûêGûÇGûäGûäGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûäGûäGûäGûæGûæGûæGûê GûæGûÇGûÆGûäGûäGûäGûÆGûæGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇGûÇGûäGûäGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûêGûäGûäGûêGûæGûæGûæGûê GûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûäGûæGûÇGûäGûäGûäGûÇGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûÆGûê GûêGûÆGûêGûæGûêGûÇGûäGûäGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûêGûÇGûæGûæGûæGûæGûÇGûäGûæGûæGûäGûÇGûÇGûÇGûäGûÆGûê
Proof: 360 m/s * (1 + (1.7225 AB bonus * (15,000,000 AB Thrust / (1,500,000 shipmass + 5,000,000 AB mass))) = 1824 / 2736 OH m/s, and 3039 / 4558 m/s OH m/s. in Propulsion mode.
Xaxaxa
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
786
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:18:39 -
[284] - Quote
Obviously you can make it faster, I was just giving vanilla numbers from the most common setups.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
265
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:24:04 -
[285] - Quote
6 km/s AC 10MN Sviipuls are a go.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1567
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:33:14 -
[286] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Two utility highs... Let's all say it together.. Assault frigates... Rest in pieces.
Yeah, I can't quite think of a way to make AF's desirable in the face of D3's.
.......f**k it, give 'em d-scan immunity.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Soul-on-Ice
Doughboys Snuffed Out
54
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:43:31 -
[287] - Quote
Fozzie, Can we also set up a crisis hotline for all the victims?
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Should help
Zappity wrote:Excellent, I'm very glad the balance happened before the other two came out. It was getting ridiculous.
Deacon Abox wrote:much needed. thanks.
Die losers. |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
786
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:52:28 -
[288] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin, you make it sound like you had no idea how fast the ships were before. But enjoy your poor-tank, no-range, moderate speed Svipul.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
267
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:55:40 -
[289] - Quote
Oh, I will.
I've strange tastes.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1523
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:22:12 -
[290] - Quote
Heat for days
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5295
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:22:40 -
[291] - Quote
Removed an off topic post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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The Connoisseur
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
28
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:23:25 -
[292] - Quote
Wouldn't change give the Svipul a little over 19% increased performance in heating its guns in a ship with an already flat 25% reduction in heat damage? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1051
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:35:52 -
[293] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules
ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2252
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:38:10 -
[294] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer They're not bad if the trade off is appropriately large. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12603
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:53:44 -
[295] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer
Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. There's plenty of room for the fitting of oversized prop mods to be an interesting and balanced fitting choice, as long as the benefits and drawbacks are in their proper place.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
268
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:59:35 -
[296] - Quote
CCP Fozzie's - the man.
I am kinda glad that fitting 10MNs by default is no longer required.
I feel free.
FREE!
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Soul-on-Ice
Doughboys Snuffed Out
54
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Posted - 2015.04.14 01:44:06 -
[297] - Quote
Hows about a skill reimbursement? Seeings as minmatar tactical destroyer is completely worthless now?
The tears think the ship is OP:
Option 1 - Counter it.
Option 2 - Fly one yourself.
Option 3 - QQ to CCP about your feelings. |
God's Apples
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
592
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Posted - 2015.04.14 01:58:24 -
[298] - Quote
Soul-on-Ice wrote:Hows about a skill reimbursement? Seeings as minmatar tactical destroyer is completely worthless now?
The tears think the ship is OP:
Option 1 - Counter it.
Option 2 - Fly one yourself.
Option 3 - QQ to CCP about your feelings.
Because it's extremely fun gameplay when you have to either fly a svipul or a svipul counter. It's almost like there are 200 other ship hulls that don't exist...
"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1121
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Posted - 2015.04.14 02:25:55 -
[299] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. There's plenty of room for the fitting of oversized prop mods to be an interesting and balanced fitting choice, as long as the benefits and drawbacks are in their proper place.
thats one view point i suppose, many others are on the side of removal of the easily exploitable, so the question is with these changes do you really think using oversized props have strong enough trade offs?
Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
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Milam Dobbins
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2015.04.14 03:11:02 -
[300] - Quote
Hey Fozzie! Thanks for the great work on balance. Everything's been amazing the last few years, though I was getting worried with the T3 release since you guys had previously said T3's would be on the power levels of navy faction but versatility would push it up in worth...and instead it was above current T2 levels and the versatility just made it more powerful on top of it - though you didn't have a real comparison on dessie navy/T2 levels and you wanted people to be excited about T3 dessies, so super understandable. and the versatility just made it more powerful on top of it. Anywho, both the initial nerf and this reaction to the feedback is amazing!
That being said, I would like to sound a concern on the speed. It's been kind of disheartening that with real game builds the ammar dictor actually typically ends up with higher possible speeds than the sabre. This is due to the plentiful low slots the ammarian ship has. The difference isn't as big between the two T3's, but I did want to bring that up since nano/overdrive fit shield amarr T3's(yeah, they're around even without the defense boost, since sniper mode is actually good on the confessor :P) will be faster than shield svipuls without sacrificing dps mods or DCU.
Anywho, I'm not sure how much minnie ships being fast has been factored in to more recent balance decisions, but it is kind of crucial if range flexibility is supposed to be a strength of projectiles - flexibility of range doesn't matter if the other guy gets to dictate range.
In real game terms it largely doesn't matter since both ships break the DPS and usefulness level that stuff like that is gravy. Svipul is great right now because it doesn't use cap, as well as tank flexibility. That might change a bunch when the other two T3's are released but it seems good right now.(Caldari also doesn't use cap, Gall will probably be around as flexible tank wise, right?)
Anywho, keep up the great work! |
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