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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
584
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Posted - 2015.04.02 14:26:51 -
[91] - Quote
I honestly feel a CPU hit on the svipul would impact better than a PG nerf, granted this nerf is okay but it doesn't go that far to dealing with the issue. Stacking ACR rigs is easy, but CPU rigs are hella expensive in calibration, limiting their stacking ability.
At worst people flying the arty fit with just a PG nerf will take off a single 1 of their 3 damage mods or possibly a tracking mod and replace it with a mapc and be on their way again.
Having a cpu reduction on the svipul to 192CPU before skills alongside the small PG nerf would result in a curtail of the 10mn ab 280mm Arty fits better than the single pg hit alone.
people can still downgrade their artys to make it fit or plug in some implants.
... and i think a 5 second warm up time for the mode change (as mentioned earlier in this thread) alongside a 5 second cooldown would be more challenging then a straight 10 second cooldown and would somewhat remove the instawarp mode change issue too.
Edit: Also wanted to say EveHQ's HQF Editor is the sh*t for this kind of prototyping! mad props to the devs at making and maintaining that! |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
327
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:01:37 -
[92] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:I honestly feel a CPU hit on the svipul would impact better than a PG nerf, granted this nerf is okay but it doesn't go that far to dealing with the issue. Stacking ACR rigs is easy, but CPU rigs are hella expensive in calibration, limiting their stacking ability.
At worst people flying the arty fit with just a PG nerf will take off a single 1 of their 3 damage mods or possibly a tracking mod and replace it with a mapc and be on their way again.
Having a cpu reduction on the svipul to 192CPU before skills alongside the small PG nerf would result in a curtail of the 10mn ab 280mm Arty fits better than the single pg hit alone.
people can still downgrade their artys to make it fit or plug in some implants.
... and i think a 5 second warm up time for the mode change (as mentioned earlier in this thread) alongside a 5 second cooldown would be more challenging then a straight 10 second cooldown and would somewhat remove the instawarp mode change issue too.
Edit: Also wanted to say EveHQ's HQF Editor is the sh*t for this kind of prototyping! mad props to the devs at making and maintaining that!
Nothing here is meant to invalidate these fits, just nerf them a bit. If you're fitting a rig to deal with the Powergrid changes then you're not fitting a rig for speed, agility, damage, tank, or something else which means your ship is less effective compared to before the nerf. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
55
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:08:22 -
[93] - Quote
I would like to inform all the interested parties, that there had been an obvious price manipulation with buying up stock by speculators and price hikes from genuine producers with respect to the increase in the proposed build cost, which is being raised by around 12 mln ISK per hull.
Within minutes of the announcement, prices spiked as high as 55m from the avg of 37m in Amarr, Domain region. This puts current build profit margins at 23 mln ISK, or 11m previously for the Confessor, as an example.
These prices won't last, so I caution you about stockping up on hulls prior to the Attribute changes going live on TQ at the end of April.
Full disclosure: I have no position in this commodity.
Regards,
CEO of Redshield Holding Company |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
584
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:15:10 -
[94] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Nothing here is meant to invalidate these fits, just nerf them a bit. If you're fitting a rig to deal with the Powergrid changes then you're not fitting a rig for speed, agility, damage, tank, or something else which means your ship is less effective compared to before the nerf.
yes but what im saying is that the currently proposed changes to the svipul will be practically ineffective, they may slightly reduce damage from a 3x stacked damage mod to 2x stacked) or slightly reduce tracking but considering the bonuses and modes and the frequency they can be changed its hardly a nerf at all.
the -20 on the speed is far more of a nerf on the svipul then the pg loss, which is negligible at best. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
329
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:20:03 -
[95] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:yes but what im saying is that the currently proposed changes to the svipul will be practically ineffective, they may slightly reduce damage from a 3x stacked damage mod to 2x stacked) or slightly reduce tracking but considering the bonuses and modes and the frequency they can be changed its hardly a nerf at all.
the -20 on the speed is far more of a nerf on the svipul then the pg loss, which is negligible at best.
That seems to be more or less their intent, for this to be a small incremental adjustment as opposed to a "rod from god" nerf-bat from orbit. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
584
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:24:35 -
[96] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:yes but what im saying is that the currently proposed changes to the svipul will be practically ineffective, they may slightly reduce damage from a 3x stacked damage mod to 2x stacked) or slightly reduce tracking but considering the bonuses and modes and the frequency they can be changed its hardly a nerf at all.
the -20 on the speed is far more of a nerf on the svipul then the pg loss, which is negligible at best. That seems to be more or less their intent, for this to be a small incremental adjustment as opposed to a "rod from god" nerf-bat from orbit.
yah and its understanable but when you're dealing with something u can actually put on a testbed and punch numbers in to get numbers out, theres actually very little sense in even having that 10pg drop. the fits people are utilising can absorb that pg hit with ease and carry on regardless. which shows that its either in the wrong place, is too light or requires an additional factor that multiplies its effectiveness - like an associated cpu hit. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Friends and Feminists
338
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:31:39 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Confessor:
- Powergrid: 71 (-9)
- Max Velocity: 250 (-30)
- Mass: 2,200,000kg (-200,000)
- Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
- Inertia: 2.4 (+0.25)
- Capacitor Recharge Time: 320s (+20s)
Svipul:
- Powergrid: 68 (-10)
- Max Velocity: 270 (-20)
- Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
- Capacitor Recharge Time: 240s (+15s)
Material Requirements: +1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core These changes are intentionally limited in scope as we want to take advantage of our rapid release cadence to make small changes and observe effects. We are very interested in hearing your feedback!
Good changes so far, though more will likely be needed to the svipul. The only thing it does to the svipul is make the already not very useful arty fit even less viable.
Here's another suggested tweak: Reduce the cargo capacity of T3D by 100-200m3. It is silly that they have as much cargo as many cruiser/BC sized ships (in fact, the entire system of cargo size is currently broken IMO. BS sized hulls should have more like 1km3, BC sized hulls more like 600, for instance, given the size of cap charges and some L ammo).
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Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1227
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:32:57 -
[98] - Quote
So losing about 1/8 of base PG? ouch. Those long range fits were already tight. Trade-offs will be made.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:49:39 -
[99] - Quote
Please rename the topic from "Minor tweaks" (which they aren't) to "Dramiel style execution of the T3 destroyers." A nerf to the price would have been sufficient; now you're nerfing your child into the round. If a majority of people think that a particular setup of ship is overpowered do not always listen to them. They may just be using inferioir tactics to dealing with the problem. You can easily kill a T3 destroyer if you have proper tackle which most of the big gangs out there lack. Now everyone will just go back to arty thrashers and that will get nerfed into the ground because a select few individuals complain about it being overpowered. Why not fix something that actually need fixing like T1 cruiser logi being such a huge force multiplier? Please nerf that into the ground instead of the T3 destroyers which add variety to the game :( |
Am Staff
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
5
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Posted - 2015.04.02 16:09:16 -
[100] - Quote
Is there anything that you don't want to nerf fozzie |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3230
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Posted - 2015.04.02 16:22:15 -
[101] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Bienator II wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Bienator II wrote:i think you overnerfed the grid on the confessor. If you compare the powerlevel of them both they don't deserve equal treatment IMO The whole point is to kill 10mn AB fits. It doesn't matter how they compare to each other in that regard. it does The Confessor will have more PG than the Svipul and will be able to fit Guns, Prop, and Tank with proper skills. What's the problem? a ship is balanced if you can fit prop, tank and guns? Thats a little oversimplified.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
45
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Posted - 2015.04.02 16:44:06 -
[102] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Saede Riordan wrote:These are really small changes, I'm not sure what sort of effect it'll have yet on fitting but none of these changes seem to gimp the ships too much, (at a glance). Pffft, it just shows how little you know about anything. Like, are you living under a rock, with your foot in your ear? 10PG is the difference between LSE Svipul and not LSE Svipul. it's the difference between 36K EHP, and 18K EHP. If that's not significant, nothing is. Go back to dullard creche and relearn Fitting Gymnastics I.
Umm ever think LSE were never intended/wanted them to be used on a destroyer?
Why do you think you should be able to fit a BATTLESHIP sized shield extender and a freaking destroyer hull dude??
It was broken and shouldnt be possible.
Cry |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
329
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Posted - 2015.04.02 16:57:46 -
[103] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:yah and its understanable but when you're dealing with something u can actually put on a testbed and punch numbers in to get numbers out, theres actually very little sense in even having that 10pg drop. the fits people are utilising can absorb that pg hit with ease and carry on regardless. which shows that its either in the wrong place, is too light or requires an additional factor that multiplies its effectiveness - like an associated cpu hit.
Out of curiosity would you mind throwing up a couple of fits you think won't be adversely affected by this?
Also keep in mind that's 10 base PG, which translates into more after skills and other multipliers are taken into account. |
Mechanical Infidel
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.04.02 16:58:07 -
[104] - Quote
Wouldn't it be better to target 10mn fits instead of nerfing the overall ship. Why not increase 10mn afterburners to 75pwg instead, I know it effects more ships, but cruisers have more pwg to spare to compensate for it. Changing it to 75pwg would also bring a bit more consistency in the afterburner to micro-warp drive relation too. (ab pwg = 50% microwarpdrive pwg) |
Heinrich Rotwang
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2015.04.02 17:11:39 -
[105] - Quote
As usual, cutting the grid was the way of the least effort. RIP versatile and interesting Svipul that was able to chose from a wide range of valid fittings, including all the tank, propulsion and armor types. Welcome boring Svipul that only has 1 or 2 cookie cutter fits everyone is flying. Come here Crow with empty highslots, you got a new friend.
How about you start doing your job and actually start balancing ships? |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1463
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Posted - 2015.04.02 17:32:33 -
[106] - Quote
Love the tears. As usual, some retards fucks are mad when overpowered **** gets balanced.
The Tears Must Flow
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
161
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Posted - 2015.04.02 17:49:54 -
[107] - Quote
This is a start i suppose.
The oversized prop fits weren't that hard to kill, in fact i've killed quite a few. They're extremely weak to neuts.
The fit i'm using is only going to see a loss of 100 m/s to add another grid mod. So, instead of 3500 m/s cold, it will be 3400 m/s cold in prop mode with a 1mn MWD. Yea idk.. somehow a bigger, heavier dessie is considerably faster than a nano'd AF.
Still no reason to fly a jag/wolf. Svipul can still go as fast as an inty, project 190 dps out to 30-40km (or 290ish out to 20-25km) and has more tank than the arty wolf/jag.
This may stop all the 10mn scrub fits, but now you'll just have 3-5km/s 1mn MWD fits flying all over that still decimate or obsolete most AF (well, all frigs in general really). Still, at least you've acknowledged they're OP.
Consider nerfing prop mode, or base speed next, depending on which way the meta shifts. |
devian chase
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
8
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Posted - 2015.04.02 17:57:31 -
[108] - Quote
Tbh the thing that makes a svipul slightly overpowered is the oversized 10mn ab fits Why not make oversizing prop mods on all ships a thing of the past That way you can keep the pg for decent arty fits and it will make balancing of all ships in the game easier ( 100mn tengu of the past where a joke as well ) |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1092
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Posted - 2015.04.02 17:59:06 -
[109] - Quote
there was no reason to fly jag/wolf before the t3 destroyers got introduced anyway bro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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Vad Olacar
H.E.L.I.X NEOS FLEET
26
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:31:18 -
[110] - Quote
I've just read an update. And I'm upset. Confessors in hangar are just expensive trash now. Thanks. |
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
281
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Posted - 2015.04.02 18:38:16 -
[111] - Quote
I'm not too upset by the nerf although I haven't really done anything with svipul. Just glad the nerf doesn't bother my 'fessor. Still have pg to spare. And for 200+ kills with one loss (damn you, you triple-armor repping svipul who tricksed me!) it's really a matter of how you use it. |
Mixu Paatelainen
Brutal Deluxe.
213
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:04:34 -
[112] - Quote
Are you going to be making commensurate changes to the proposed Hecate/Jackdaw stats?
Also: no sig radius nerf. lol. |
Heinrich Rotwang
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:37:26 -
[113] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Love the tears. As usual, some retards fucks are mad when overpowered ships get balanced.
... are mad when overpowered ships are released and then "fixed" in the wrong way. Fixed it for you. Sorry, couldn't do anything about your poor neighborhood language. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1463
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:39:06 -
[114] - Quote
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Love the tears. As usual, some retards fucks are mad when overpowered ships get balanced. ... are mad when overpowered ships are released and then "fixed" in the wrong way. Fixed it for you. Sorry, couldn't do anything about your poor neighborhood language.
Fixed the wrong way my ass. Cry more ********.
The Tears Must Flow
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
116
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:33:43 -
[115] - Quote
Heinrich Rotwang wrote: ... are mad when overpowered ships are released and then "fixed" in the wrong way. Fixed it for you. Sorry, couldn't do anything about your poor neighborhood language.
No need for tears now, I too, have Amarr Tactical Destroyer V. It's alright now.
Some things are meant to be - this was one of them. I realised this the second Confessor stats were out, hence Amarr TD V, even though I knew it would come eventually. I just wanted to abuse the platform for my own personal satisfaction.
So sad.
But take it like a man.
It's alright.
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
767
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:55:54 -
[116] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:the -20 on the speed is far more of a nerf on the svipul then the pg loss, which is negligible at best.
The -20 is less than 10% on an overheated Svipul. It's a hilariously weak change.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Heinrich Rotwang
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2015.04.03 08:34:09 -
[117] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Love the tears. As usual, some retards fucks are mad when overpowered ships get balanced. ... are mad when overpowered ships are released and then "fixed" in the wrong way. Fixed it for you. Sorry, couldn't do anything about your poor neighborhood language. Fixed the wrong way my ass. Cry more ********.
You should apply at CCP. You definitely got the talent. |
Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
497
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Posted - 2015.04.03 09:37:34 -
[118] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Good stuff, please fix Garmur and Orthrus next and delete RLMLs and never ever introduce weapons like that again. HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! *swipes* |
Nalia White
Tencus
93
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Posted - 2015.04.03 11:01:56 -
[119] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:the -20 on the speed is far more of a nerf on the svipul then the pg loss, which is negligible at best. The -20 is less than 10% on an overheated Svipul. It's a hilariously weak change.
well i know for a fact you are bitter of destroyer hulls in general :P
but the speed change is huge. it is clearly slower now than a thrasher in non propulsion mode which it was even before btw. i generaly think destroyers are too slow but that's another thing.
i am speaking about the svipul here. i always flew no tank arty variant which now sadly has to be compromised even more due to the changes even with no freaking tank at all...
nerfs had to be made as the only ship capable to tackle and kill the 10mn variants in a one on one was a rapier (it was my go to ship at least to kill em reliably, even deadspace fitted ones)... and i think it would hit the pg but never that high. i would have made a mixed nerf of for example -5 to pg of the ships and +5 pg on 10mn afterburners or just plain and simple don't allow oversized prop mods on smaller ships... a single t3 destroyer should never be able to beat a similarly competent cruiser pilot when both have short range fits.
but the argument of "diverse fitting" options are a joke really because for that to happen now the fitting costs of small artilleries has to be at least minus 1 pg. even the thrasher needs 2 small ancilliary current router to fit 280s and a mwd... the same is now true for the svipul which is a joke really if you have just one small projectile rig in it. what happened to TANK / RANGE-APPLICATION / SPEED --> choose 2.
as countless people said it will kill arty variants which i am a bit sad as i like this weapon a lot but there are so few ships where they are viable... and those variants were surely balanced. they would pack cruiser dps on small long range turret (with short range ammo of course) but they had absolutely no tank and can be oneshot by the same fit (a friend actualy oneshot a dual masb svipul = no buffer like arty) ... i would call that balanced (not the 10mn variant, but the no tank arty fits).
it's bad to even think about going back to the artythrasher. much better tracking (which i experienced is a huge thing btw!), better speed, a looooooooooot cheaper, alpha difference will no longer be that huge (was 15% more alpha with svipul, 30% more dps). the only plus for artyfits will be the higher dps (will still be around 20-25% i think as i have to change one gyro for a mapc, maybe that lets me fit a tracking rig even, will have to see)
i can say i have a lot of experience in this field of play. you can watch my killboard if you don't believe me :P
tldr:
either disallow (is that even a word?) oversized prop mods or split the pg nerf to -5 to the ships and +5 to the 10mn ab. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1038
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Posted - 2015.04.03 11:04:26 -
[120] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:[ i am speaking about the svipul here. i always flew no tank arty variant which now sadly has to be compromised even more due to the changes even with no freaking tank at all...
the fitting gap between ACs and arties is something CCP doesn't seem to care about, even though it's really dumb. |
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