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Lifewire
Caldari TunDraGon
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:03:00 -
[1]
Extreme blobbing was a problem in EVE for a long time now. This gang limitations are a first step towards more fun. Nerf the fleet volley in next patch and this game improves again. The more damage a ship suffers per second, the less signature it gets. That is the way to "force" people to gangsizes that are enjoyable and do not cause node-deaths.
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EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:09:00 -
[2]
Gang sizes can still go up to 250ppl, so it's not really nerfed and anyone that can use a command ship can already use pretty big gang sizes, so most FCs will just do a little bit of training.
I hope they up the connection limit on sis soon, so we can start to do some proper gang testing.
Nate.
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Ricky Baby
Beagle Corp R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:09:00 -
[3]
they should not "force" us to pay in anyway - they should just make other forms of combat a lot more viable -------------------------------------
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Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:09:00 -
[4]
People will just form more gangs. It will do nothing to curb the people who bring blobs. Just slow them down because they have to train the skills. Thats all. Blobs will be forever a part of eve.
"What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien". |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:14:00 -
[5]
This wont change blobbing at all... -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:19:00 -
[6]
What¦s the difference of issuing a command "Squad leaders warp your squads in at 100km to Gate X" to 10 squad leaders, to issuing the command "Warp in at 100km to Gate X" to your gang leader?
All people who say, "wow, those gang changes resolve blobbing" should think about it please.
Kanuo
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:22:00 -
[7]
All this does is raise the barrier to entry for new players. The large elder alliances will have no problem getting people to train up these skills so they can field a force of any size. However, a group of younger pilots who are still working on battleship skills, advanced learning, and so forth is placed at an even deeper competitive disadvantage because they have to train up more infrastructure skills at the expense of critical fitting, weaponry, and ship command abilities.
I'm hoping that you can still form basic gangs without these skills, but that Warfare skill bonuses and gang link modules will only apply within organized commands. It would help a lot to get some dev clarification on the issue.
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Schlauke
Gallente Zooner Corp G.U.A.R.D.
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:29:00 -
[8]
In the beginnings of EVE gang size was limited by the leadership skill (One member per skill level) i think, now they just put this limit back in (Two members per skill level).
Greetings Schlauke
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Celior
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:32:00 -
[9]
CCP wants to discourage blobs and encourage smaller gangs.
CCP wanted to boost the use of the Charisma boost. Poor Gallente :P
The change for new players is minimal. New players are hardly ones to form 50-man fleets, let alone 250. Forming a gang of 10 for the training time of about seven days is fine. CCP had to do something about the charisma use and the blobs. Now they've done something to both.
How it all turns out is a different thing altogether :D
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Tundaar
Minmatar Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:40:00 -
[10]
Personal opinion is that it could make organisation and combat MUCH more flexible, Support gangs, Sniper squadrons, Inty gangs - all operating semmi indpendently linked by a command network.
"Jammer gang 1 take Primary 1" "Tackler gangs 2 & 3 stop that freighter from gettting away" "Logistics - support gang 3" - woohoo . . .
I'd be interested to see how a couple of things work though.
If Fleet commander is killed - what happens to Fleet Org - does 2IC take over or does it fracture with ooss of communications?
How will Gang assist moodules work and at what level? Will they be restricted to immediate gang?
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Lifewire
Caldari TunDraGon
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:04:00 -
[11]
I said it¦s a first step - i did not say that it will help alot. It will not stop the crazy alliance leaders to keep blobbing. So there must come more stuff to solve the problem. Having 250 in gang must have massive disadvandtages like nerfed tracking, nerfed sensor strenght, nerfed speed. And the fleet volley nerf must come. If we want to get rid of blobs, i see no way arround this.
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Ivor Gunn
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:09:00 -
[12]
It won't stop blobbing at all. People capable of fielding 250-man blobs in the first place will have 10-20 pilots with most of the skills already, or if they don't, they'll just make about 30 alts capable of doing so. All this does is hinder the ability of smaller corps and alliances who, to participate in any sort of gang-related activity (see: anything), will probably have to end up relying on one person to form the gang. Then what if that person has ot log?
Stupid addition, absolutely not thought through.
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Ysolde Xen
Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:28:00 -
[13]
I've not had the chance to check for myself, I've only seen the posted screenies of the skills, but isn't the skill limit on Squadrons rather than Gangs? The difference being that a Squadron is the next step up and so small gangs shouldn't be affected at all, only the bigger warblobs of the larger corps and alliances?
-----
It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong. |
ChrisFish
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:09:00 -
[14]
Something to test:
1) Create a gang of a couple people --Do gang bonuses apply? 2) Form a group of 2 squads --Do gang bonuses apply? --Do they apply evenly? ie. If you have a squad with a leadership skill toon in it, does the bonus apply to all squads or just the squad that toon is in. --conversely, if you have a leadership toon as the overall commander, does that skill apply to all squads below?
3) Form a large gang with squad leader having the bonuses. Have someone destroy/pod the squad leader. What happens to the gang layout? If there isn't a toon in the gang with the ability to maintain the hierarchy, what happens? This could make identifying and podding the overall leader very significant if the gang hierarchy collapses.
Very interesting...
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Iog Krugar
Gallente The Rising Stars
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Posted - 2006.10.25 16:07:00 -
[15]
currently the node that handles gangs is perma-down, so no chance at testing gangs so far . gang mates are supposed to show up on the system map tho...
--- i suposse everyone rolls around stations in pods |
Bob Niac
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.25 16:35:00 -
[16]
first off 200+ members = blob
but anywho ... this is obviously NOT a blob nerf; its more of a traditional approch to "raids" (aka fleets)
there was no obvious structure to fleets before. Now we have a multi tiered system to which certain limitations and bonuses can be applied. Newbies will train this to their needs quite fast, while blobs will have a steep learning curve.
Think of it this way: The president of the USA might not know jack about the intracies of his navies fleet ops, but his rear admiral does. The admiral probaly wont make any major political moves, but the president will maake several.
They are Triing to stucture combat ops so that they are outside of diplomatic / political ops.
(PS this will also help the impending Voice Comms)
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Girdan Keirge
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:07:00 -
[17]
The concept itself seems good, but I see a couple of potential problems with this system.
Can you not form any gangs at all if you don't have at least Leadership 1? That ruins gangs for mining ops, for starters. Adds about one week of training just to get a gang size of 10. Newer players can learn a lot of more valuable skills in one week. I did several 'mining ops' when I was new and in NPC corps which came to between 4-8 people, so that would be about a day's worth of training to have 8 people in a gang. Even for the huge Corps, this trips up the impromtu mining op as anyone who isn't a squad/fleet commander has no need to train these skills.
Hinders gangs for small objectives like lower level complexes and missions. Smaller Corps and people in NPC Corps won't be able to do this anymore without investing time in these skills. All players in Corps will have to learn these skills just to be able to work together when the true 'leadership' players aren't online or are otherwise busy.
How does chat work between gang/squad/fleet? Is each gang's chat separate or can all gang members see chat from all other gang members? Basically, are orders having to be relayed? As in, Joebob sees a hostile, says so in chat, but only his 9 person gang sees it, and so a squad or fleet commander has to say it for all members to see. Not a good system. Some people/corps don't use voice comms for whatever reason and this would hurt intel reporting.
What about gang bonus? If anyone can form any size gang for say mining op, do gang bonus apply if you don't have the Command skills? Seriously hurts mining output. Combat bonus only applying to gangs that have leaders with the skills is fine, not allowing mining bonus for gangs without squad/fleet command skills isn't.
I've not tested the new stuff, and chances are tha I won't have the opportunity to either, but these are important questions that need answers.
Warning, personal opinion ahead. If that is how gangs will work, it will probably lead to even more Alts. I really don't care for Alts, and think it takes away accountability from players. Makes it easy to create spies, throw-away pirates, corporate theives, etc. which gives victims no recourse and the perpetrators no reason to worry about consequences. Makes Corp leaders train higher level Management skills without really getting more people involved in the Corp. Sure, I've made an alt to check prices in some hub system, but that's it. I'm just a fan of the 'post with you main' attitude. One account = one character per server.
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