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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Metis AT
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:07:00 -
[1]
I know we all love ships, but just wondering if the contract system is in yet, and if anyone has played around with it yet.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:27:00 -
[2]
It's in, and I've successfully put up an auction contract.
Very slick, very useful, huge improvement over existing systems.
Only flaw I saw was tiny display bug, hitting space bar while inputting text did not result in text entry point moving forward a space. Space was inserted into the string, but not displayed in the entry box.
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:28:00 -
[3]
hey hey
Contract system in in and sorta working
Auctions are prenerfed and a bit pointless atm :
They are TAXED !!! why would you use the ingame auction and pay horrendus tax when you already use the forums tax free.
Minimum price is set to 1 mil which should be removed as any item under 1 mil will therefore no longer be sold via auction (not sure on this one but might be a good thing and help cut out single item sales that really should go on main market)
Managed to place a couple of bids but they didnt refresh and the contract never updated. (might be a feature for blind auctions ?? but you wouldnt know how your bid is doing.)
All in all im glad escrow got the heave ho, sadly the contracts system is stil scamable.
Will certainly investigaste more in the morning. Its got ALOT of potential
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Lyn Arinus
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:50:00 -
[4]
I haven't had a chance to play Kali yet, but does anyone know what the limit on the number of contracts one can issue is? My corp's business employs up to 50 escrows/couriers a day right now, and up to twice that number can be in progress at any one time, so it would be very inconvenient if two dozen alts were needed just to keep things running
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Mephysto
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:21:00 -
[5]
Forgot a sticky for contracts...
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Shinshi Casoyako
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:37:00 -
[6]
Auctions should be done in game. This is far more easy than going through 10 pages of forum auctions to check which items are nice to auction. I dont know if its implemanted but I would love to have a way of adding auction to favourites and possible a mail message that someone went over your auction.
This would make an auction far more viable and far more usefull.
Again I am not on sisi but I do read the forums. . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
RobW1
Caldari Iyen-Oursta Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:04:00 -
[7]
So we're saying :-
* Remove tax * Fix a couple of display bugs
It's good to go so-far after that :)
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Rylon
Evisceration.
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: RobW1 * Remove tax
Tax is not a bug.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:53:00 -
[9]
Tax = good. Anything expensive enough for the tax to *really* hurt shouldn't be being done by aution or marketplace anyway. If you're selling Dreads or CNDs, you can afford to do it player to player.
Old fashioned way = place an add (forums, bios, whatever) and have people contact you. Meet them, open trade window..........you get the rest. -----------------------------------------------
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rsdyhs
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: rsdyhs on 27/10/2006 13:58:18 lower tax should be fine
also for corps/ allainces
they put up escrows for no isk ( for remote selling) iff somebody needs the stuff and they got it
iff minimum price = 1 mil, and somebody needs the T1 frigate to kill somebody, they still need to pay 1 mil for a 100K frig
so minimum price should only be for puplic stuff i did not check this out yet
Quote: STUPID ALT
Cyborg3201
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.27 14:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mephysto Forgot a sticky for contracts...
Whats the point of a sticky for a thread with no useful information about the Contracts system, how Loans work exactly, and the other options? ------------------ Save Tranquility! |
Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.27 14:53:00 -
[12]
Writting this off the top of my head (took bunch of screenies but looks like I forgot to load film ...) so few thing are bound to be missing and/or wrong.
But first, omg thank you so much for this!
You can create: - auction - item exchange - courier - loan - freeform
General They can be public, limited to person/corporation, corporate or alliance.
Contract lasts at max 7 days (can we get some more here please?). You can create one public and 500 corporate contracts. There is Contracting skill which affects limit on public contracts available; sorry, haven't had time to check out its attributes. Oddly enough, even if you create an alliance contract, you are still limited by skill.
Contract creation is done wizzard-style, you fill out few forms and can move forward or back through them. One gripe might be with ones where you select an item (just like any Search function in game) and are presented with list of matches. Would be kinda logical if clicking Ok placed that item in selected items list and not just filled out search box and force you to click Add item again. All in all, very professional
1.) Auctions As said, min starting bid is 1M, buyout is optional. Tax is 1% (no clue if same skills as for trading affect it).
2.) Item exchange WTT basically with option to "even out" value with money. Select item(s) you're offering, search for item(s) you want in exchange, enter amount of ISK you're prepared to give/want in addition to item(s) and that's it.
3.) Courier Select item(s) (btw, this is done Enter escrow style throughout contract creation; select station, check items), search for destination and specifiy reward and collateral.
4. Loan You can loan item(s), money or both. Again you can enter price, collateral and when you want your stuff back. Clueless still about what happens if dude runs away. Guess you just slap high enough collateral on the contract.
5. Freeform Notepad opens up, you spill out your heart and try and sell that You can save templates (didn't work) or load them. Uses same folders as Notepad.
There are filters to set up when you're sifting through pile ... err, contracts whether yours or public ones. After creating each contract you get really neat summary with item/player/corp links and show route and cargo hold requirements and whatnot. You can create them either for yourself or on behalf of your corp (Trader role I assume).
So far I managed to get a Wasp II for an Enyo, worked smoothly. Rest after downtime and teh queue.
Again, this is brief walkthrough. I'll try and get camera fixed and get you some pics from the frontline.
Footnote for devs: - longer duration please - simplify selection of searchable items (when selecting and confirming an item form list, just place it in Added items) - make confirmation window resizable (preferably with saved position/size) - possibly refresh contracts list after submitting new/completing one; everybody will hit refresh anyway - history doesn't seem to be working; also might just display history for contract displayed rather than drop down of all you viewed so far - alliance contracts should have higher skilless count limit - extended size font screws up few things - saving template for freeform didn't work
More to come ... maybe
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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:27:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 27/10/2006 15:29:00 I still want to put eyes on my topic: My Topic
Basicly for the web based corps who rely on escrow to sell their goods it should be posible to have close to unlimited personal contracts, either on behalf of your corp or yourself. I don't see the real harm in unlimited personal contracts tbh. The only one who can see the contract is you and your target, so it wont clutter up any screens or anything. Maybe remove tax from personal contracts aswell? They're just a simplifed means of trading goods, public escrows/contracts are more like sellorders..
-edited some typos
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:20:00 -
[14]
Will the auction section of the market be setup to place stocks?
I would love to have the stock market active and have that aspect of the game fulfilled
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Lyn Arinus
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:23:00 -
[15]
It sounds like the Kali contract system is going to ruin a lot of traditional businesses that rely on mass escrows, mine included
Having the contract limit extended by the trader role in a corp is unlikely to be a realistic solution, since you will end up with a huge bookkeeping problem with different players' ISK mixing in the corp wallet, not to mention a giant and unecessary security risk.
Hopefully there will be skills that raise the contract limit, and not just by some paltry amount of a few dozen or so. We will need at least the contract equivalent of Trade, Retail, and Tycoon to keep business running, and probably a lot more considering the variety of contracts that will be avaible which may present as of yet unforeseen business oppurtunities.
The Kali contract system has the potential to become a powerful tool for players to generate game content for each other. I believe a feature like this should have as few restrictions as possible in order to encourage more player interaction through the contract system. Here's to hoping Kali's contract system will live up to its potential and not become the death knell of many businesses...
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RobW1
Caldari Iyen-Oursta Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rylon
Originally by: RobW1 * Remove tax
Tax is not a bug.
As other people have said, why would I sell a 1.25 Bn isk Caldari Navy Raven (for example) and pay tax on it, through an ingame auction, when I can use the forums for free?
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:35:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sphynx Stormlord on 27/10/2006 21:43:11
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:43:00 -
[18]
Fuller answer, after being repeatedly told that this thread does not exist when trying to edit my previous post.
Originally by: RobW1
As other people have said, why would I sell a 1.25 Bn isk Caldari Navy Raven (for example) and pay tax on it, through an ingame auction, when I can use the forums for free?
Because selling in-game may well have improved visibility, allowing more people to bid, and possibly resulting in a sale price more than 1% higher than that achieved via forums?
1% tax on 1.25 billion is 12.5 million; what this is getting the buyer is the knowledge of when and where the thing they are bidding on is, prompt delivery at the moment the auciton ends, a convienient search interface to find the item in the first place and easily compare it to all the other navy ravens on auction in jita.
So, what do you think: does the average navy raven buyer care about 12.5 million compared to all that convenience? I suspect that they dont, and will be looking for them in-game; people will still buy on the forums, but possibly mostly resellers.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:28:00 -
[19]
These where the same questions when Blood came out with the new market skills.
I bet the reason they are limiting the amount you have is based on the database qry they did and found most players have 16 avg escrows.
If the majority of the escrows are a few owners then they must adapt. The reason they use the escrow is because they dont use the market.
Adapt.
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 28/10/2006 01:08:05
Originally by: Harisdrop If the majority of the escrows are a few owners then they must adapt. The reason they use the escrow is because they dont use the market. Adapt.
When you say adapt, you mean use 10 contract alts, right?
Back when the first contract blogs appeared, there was a lot of discussion about all the topics mentioned in here. Glad it all got ignored. Every "improvement" allows you to do everything you used to be able to do before, just with more lag, more clicks, and more must-have skills to train.
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Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:51:00 -
[21]
I'd say people are using escrows for stuff they could sell on market for following reasons (in probably this order):
- scams Contracts nerf scams to an extend. Content is better viewable but since there's one born every minute people will still buy BPCs for ridiculous sums.
- item location There're no restrictions I could see so no change.
- sell order limits Until I see what Contracting skill does this one's hard to comment. But one contract is a bit too restrictive unless some items gain ability to be sold on market, most notably BPCs. Alliance contracts need fixing in this regard and I'm assuming current limit is a bug. There's also situations where you are locked out from places where your stuff is and "Hangar clearance" type auctions just don't cut it. Then again those could be an oportunity for hi skilled traders; claiming such contracts at a discount price then placing individual items on market remotely.
- tax No more free ride but c'mon, 1%? That's really cheap for all the convinience. Would be nice if you could skill it down. Standing effect? If it stays fixed I'm assuming reasoning behind it was that auctions shouldn't be used for mass selling but rather for what auctions are normally used; high value stuff you sell on occasion so taxes don't pile up.
- "what does this button do" Won't change but will be limited due to count limit.
Anyway, early days still but it looks much better than tier 3 bships
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Riley Craven
Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.28 05:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Patch86 Tax = good. Anything expensive enough for the tax to *really* hurt shouldn't be being done by aution or marketplace anyway. If you're selling Dreads or CNDs, you can afford to do it player to player.
Old fashioned way = place an add (forums, bios, whatever) and have people contact you. Meet them, open trade window..........you get the rest.
Tax = bad.
Whats the point of adding an auction to the contract system.
1. To ensure some type of locked in system that gives players safety to make deals. 2. To make it easier to search for needed Items. 3. To give people more visibility to get something sold.
Ok these are reasons adding an auction system is good, but adding a tax that only tarnishes this good system.
If people do have such high items, they usually dont have one or two of them... for the most part, these are people that sell these types of items frequently over time.
This means that any tax at all adds up considerably when looking at the time value.
Secondly, because of the tax this gives players less incentive to use the system, especially when there are free resources available to them. I am sure that if they took away the sell order thread it would be a matter of days before someone in the community developed a free site that is much better anyway.
I am simply saying that not only I, but many others are going to avoid paying such outrageous taxes to the system when all the work is mostly player driven to begin with. People that are willing to pay such taxes are effectively idiots because they are just throwing countless millions down the toilet for no reason at all. This is especially true when there are other resources readily available to sell things.
Furthermore, you might have noticed the recent trend lately of people advertising that they want to trade or buy things at a certain price for more visibility via escrow. What's to stop people from abusing the new system and using it to sell things in such a way as well but this time to avoid paying taxes?
My point was already made above. Why create rules that players dont want and are going to try to bypass anyway?
CCP should be trying to make our lives easier not more complicated.
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Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.10.28 10:35:00 -
[23]
Eve needs more isk sinks.
The market is taxed and everyone still uses it.
They already said some trade skills will reduce tax on contracts etc.
I will use the contracts system rather than go out of game as the convenience is worth 1% to me. Try and save the 1% and you will lose more than you save.
Zarch AlDain
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Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.10.28 11:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RobW1
As other people have said, why would I sell a 1.25 Bn isk Caldari Navy Raven (for example) and pay tax on it, through an ingame auction, when I can use the forums for free?
Why should you sell things on Ebay and pay them a percentage when you can sell them on your own website just as easy?
Why would you sell your vegetables on the market when you can sell them just as well at home?
Exposure, easy of use, trust, etc. Lots of reasons.
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Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.10.28 11:23:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 28/10/2006 11:23:47
Originally by: Riley Craven
Tax = bad.
Tax = good. It reduces money in circulation and thereby keeps a check on inflation. Additionally, inflation is also caused by the speed in which money circulates, and taxes affect such proportionally.
Originally by: Riley Craven Ok these are reasons adding an auction system is good, but adding a tax that only tarnishes this good system.
On the contrary. Eve is built on this concept. You trade time and skill for money. Bringing demand and supply together will be a lot easier with the new system. This saves time, time = isk, so everyone should be willing to pay for it. I think even if they let the old escrow system stand, people would still use the new system because of the advantages it offers.
Originally by: Riley Craven Secondly, because of the tax this gives players less incentive to use the system, especially when there are free resources available to them. I am sure that if they took away the sell order thread it would be a matter of days before someone in the community developed a free site that is much better anyway.
If using the ingame system saves me 5 minutes as opposed to using the forum, then thats about 1 million I can earn with that time saved. So what if I have to pay 100,000 Isk tax?
Originally by: Riley Craven I am simply saying that not only I, but many others are going to avoid paying such outrageous taxes to the system when all the work is mostly player driven to begin with. People that are willing to pay such taxes are effectively idiots because they are just throwing countless millions down the toilet for no reason at all. This is especially true when there are other resources readily available to sell things.
Just watch, you know your claim isn't true. What you are saying is that thousands of people won't use Ebay because they can sell it through other means just as well. Fact of the matter is, they won't be able to sell it as easily.
Originally by: Riley Craven CCP should be trying to make our lives easier not more complicated.
On the contrary, game design *relies* on making lives easier for its players. If everything is easy, that would remove all challenges. People play games *because* the goals of the games are not easily met. Putting up restrictions and consequences allows more breadth and depth in the game, it gives you more options and decisions.
Just take travel time. It alone creates a huge transport market. To ask CCP to make things easier for players and allow them to automatically transport goods from one station to another for no fee would destroy trade. The difficulties of distance bring live a whole industry.
Have you ever designed games? I think not, because from what you seem to desire, your games would be utterly boring. Easy, sure, boring, yeah...
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Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.10.28 12:42:00 -
[26]
Taxes: They are good as long as they are not too high and not possible to circumvent.
Contract slots: This is the real problem, which I see with contracts. Please don¦t make it necessary to create extra alts just for being able to use contracts. Just look at the selling of BPCs: It is not possible to sell BPCs on the market. So they have to be sold with escrows/contracts. => Many contracts needed!
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.28 13:19:00 -
[27]
The differences between what should be and what is.
Contract: Limited and searchable good. Escrow: unlimited and non-searcable and the escrow you made 5 minutes ago is lost in the dBase VERY bad
If we stop for a minute and look at the way the market changed when they applied the skills to that we found that the market exploded. Do you remember the stacking problem. It was nasty. a seller could line a station with his goods and no one could ever sell anything. bad. Thats where our escrow is now. If you spam the escrow system now you might be the only player on the escrow screen. Limited contracts will stop only a few 100 players from spammin and let the rest of the player base to post thier 5 contracts. Soo I hope the limit comes in. Soo many times I see that argument be nothing, but a few that will be hurt.
I hope a few things can be applied to the contract system. I would like to have a employment option. Where you can place job wanted contracts and looking for a corp. I think this is where they talk about the forums and the contract system get closer. Where the want ads become truely ingame.
Can we get the GTC in a contract form. If you allow it on the forums why not just place it in a contract. You click to buy a gtc and wham you get the time exstension.
Contract player sales ingame.
Have a contract for station/outpost services.
Have a contract for standings.
Have a contract for alliance acceptance.
Have a contract for employment accpectance.
Have a price check contract.
Have a contract for bounty.
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.28 13:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers When you say adapt, you mean use 10 contract alts, right?
I dont see a problem here. Are you saying people dont have 10 market alts, 10 mining alts, 10 complex alts, and 10 pvp alts?
Thats not like its bad to have alot of alts is it???? I wonder if CCP thinks its bad to have 41 accounts?
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.10.28 13:42:00 -
[29]
Contracts sound pretty good. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Naran Darkmood
Gallente MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.28 14:57:00 -
[30]
make the tax the same thing Ebay is doing in RL. make it apply to the minium bid you enter and make the lowest possible amount (1 mil) free from tax. Want to sell that Dreadnought without tax? put it on the market for 1 mil isk
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