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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.28 18:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Harisdrop Can we get the GTC in a contract form. If you allow it on the forums why not just place it in a contract. You click to buy a gtc and wham you get the time exstension.
Good one. If we could then use them via ingame tool ...
Quote: Contract player sales ingame.
Bulk trading belongs to Market.
Quote: Have a contract for station/outpost services.
Yup, renting contract would come handy.
Quote: Have a contract for standings. Have a contract for alliance acceptance. Have a contract for employment accpectance. Have a price check contract.
These can be done with Freeform contract although advertising should have separate system.
Quote: Have a contract for bounty.
Do you care who kills him?
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Riley Craven
Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 01:34:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 29/10/2006 01:36:29 "Eve needs more isk sinks."
LOL, you sir do not know eve then. Why does eve have isk sinks now... to keep down inflation.... what inflation? the only infaltion right now is with t2 because of the increase demand of the larger player base... everything else has been on the downward spiral... You can easily find tier 2 bs for 100mil on and off escrow. When I joined, you were lucky to find a bs for less than 120mil. The same has held true for smaller ships... bc's used to be at least 30mil. market average is now 25mi.
There is no inflation you speak of.
"Why should you sell things on Ebay and pay them a percentage when you can sell them on your own website just as easy?Why would you sell your vegetables on the market when you can sell them just as well at home?Exposure, easy of use, trust, etc. Lots of reasons."
I havent sold on ebay and never will. There is always a way to sell goods without giving your money to others... it just depends on you being smart.
"On the contrary. Eve is built on this concept. You trade time and skill for money. Bringing demand and supply together will be a lot easier with the new system. This saves time, time = isk, so everyone should be willing to pay for it. I think even if they let the old escrow system stand, people would still use the new system because of the advantages it offers."
This argument makes no sense. Selling via forum sell order thread takes no time investment at all. I never said people wouldnt use it, just that smart people wouldn't. Why do you think people dont sell cap ships on market... think about... taxes....
"On the contrary, game design *relies* on making lives easier for its players. If everything is easy, that would remove all challenges. People play games *because* the goals of the games are not easily met. Putting up restrictions and consequences allows more breadth and depth in the game, it gives you more options and decisions."
You would be right.... on the topic of just about anything else with the game. The goal with the auction system should be make to it easier for players to come together.. not to make the game easier. I believe taxes hinders the first goal. Secondly dont lecture me on goals. I have built 3 frieghters a carrier and a dred soley of rat loot. It took time and patience, and I did it on my own. What have you done?
"Have you ever designed games? I think not, because from what you seem to desire, your games would be utterly boring. Easy, sure, boring, yeah..."
And you have never taken a general debate class. Dont make statements you cant back up... I in fact have designed games, and designed them to get harder as you go. Make no mistake, I am not advocating to make the game easier... I advocating for CCP to make it easier for players to come together. If you cant see that difference then I cant help you.
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Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.29 08:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Riley Craven LOL, you sir do not know eve then. Why does eve have isk sinks now... to keep down inflation.... what inflation? the only infaltion right now is with t2 because of the increase demand of the larger player base... everything else has been on the downward spiral... You can easily find tier 2 bs for 100mil on and off escrow. When I joined, you were lucky to find a bs for less than 120mil. The same has held true for smaller ships... bc's used to be at least 30mil. market average is now 25mi.
There is no inflation you speak of.
There's more to inflation than selected items price tags which is true for both sides of the argument. There is inflation, more money per player is circulating game than before. It HAS NOT gone out of hands and frankly 1% MAX tax on some selling isn't gonna change anything.
Quote: Make no mistake, I am not advocating to make the game easier... I advocating for CCP to make it easier for players to come together.
Funny, I think contracts are pretty well on their way to achieve just that. Now instead of owners selling their own stuff they might be inclined to seek professional (read skilled) traders.
But all arguments aside, we'll be paying taxes for last free ride in game. Good or bad it makes no difference. It's in line with rest of economy and we'll have to deal with it. Which is what every game needs, things to deal with.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.29 16:48:00 -
[34]
I had high hopes for contracts helping to structure some regular corp activities, but most of the chat has been on auctions so far - so please does anyone know if:
- Contract histories are clear and working, are they in a shoq info? - Can you loan a new corpmember a corp covetor for a week for example, with a contracted 'rental' cost of 5 mil Tritanium payable at the end of the contract? - Can you automate contracts to reoccur? Such as mineral supply contracts? - For courier contracts, can you select a POS hangar as a destination? - Do contracts provide the ability to give corpmembers 'jobs', ie have corp contracts for manufacturing 10 frigats by end of week? take new Titan BPO, research to ME1 and deliver to X corp office?
I don't mean to sidetrack your auctions discussions, but any more on this side of contract functionality would be appreciated.
Thanks, Vyk
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Futuri
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.10.29 17:55:00 -
[35]
Are the new contracts skills seeded already? If yes, what are the stats
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Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.29 23:56:00 -
[36]
- Contract histories are clear and working, are they in a shoq info? Couldn't get history to work. Show info of what?
- Can you loan a new corpmember a corp covetor for a week for example, with a contracted 'rental' cost of 5 mil Tritanium payable at the end of the contract? No, ISK only.
- Can you automate contracts to reoccur? Such as mineral supply contracts? No.
- For courier contracts, can you select a POS hangar as a destination? Not sure, don't think so.
- Do contracts provide the ability to give corpmembers 'jobs', ie have corp contracts for manufacturing 10 frigats by end of week? take new Titan BPO, research to ME1 and deliver to X corp office? Depends how much you trust your corpies. You could use Freeform to set up jobs but there's next to impossible to code in all the fulfillment triggers one would need.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.30 02:34:00 -
[37]
Cheers for the answers.
'Show Info' as in when you right click a portrait and can view characters standings...
I'm sure I saw that people's contract histories would be publicly visible...please tell me it is not just for auctions as on ebay, and that loans and other contracts will show histories too.
Hmm...I'm not going to make a final judgement until I've seen it, but so far it just sounds like we have the exact same courier/auction functionality as current escrow with a prettier interface.
Please say it ain't so! |
Packtu'sa
Caldari Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 04:20:00 -
[38]
O, m, g.
Remove the taxes.
PLEASE...
It would probably be easier for me to just start speaking into my microphone and say "Hey, does anybody want [x] for [y] ISK at [z] location?" and go through the trouble of finding somebody than it would be for me to set up the contract paying tax on it. Taxes just ruin it, I think, because we could just as well find each other and chat, but it would mean less time in the game and more time surfing a forum.
Packtu'sa Founder/CEO Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Auk Monnan
Minmatar Hidden Industrial Group
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Posted - 2006.10.30 09:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shabesa
Originally by: Harisdrop
Quote: Have a contract for bounty.
Do you care who kills him?
Well, yes, exactly. The current bounty system is worse than pointless because any pirate whos bounty becomes bigger than his clone cost would pod himself with an alt, keep the isk, and laugh.
Auk Monnan, Chief |
Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:12:00 -
[40]
Ah yes, that. Fixing Bounty system then
Please, make Create contract window resizable. It's a pain when you need to select few items from list of several hundred when only 4 or 5 can be seen at once.
And somewhat related, don't you think it's about time we had remote access to containers?
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Pedo Fortis
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:37:00 -
[41]
Tax:
why not have a fixed fee rarther than a percantage tax?
How about 50,000K fixed fee.
clearly the contract system is Not designed to replace the market.
1) Low value items sold in bulk on the market. 2) High value individual items sold on the Contract system.
A large enough fixed fee would seperate the low value items from the high value that can handle the fixed fee. there is no need to take 1% of a 60Bil item thus forcing the seller onto the forums.
Pedo Fortis
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Pedo Fortis
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:39:00 -
[42]
Tax:
why not have a fixed fee rarther than a percantage tax?
How about 50,000K fixed fee.
clearly the contract system is Not designed to replace the market.
1) Low value items sold in bulk on the market. 2) High value individual items sold on the Contract system.
A large enough fixed fee would seperate the low value items from the high value that can handle the fixed fee. there is no need to take 1% of a 60Bil item thus forcing the seller onto the forums.
Pedo Fortis
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:39:00 -
[43]
It should be a scaled tax.
Based on the min value + reserve value.
Soo with 1.8 billion reserve on a 1 bill min you should be taxed 5% - standings and skills
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gina Barbagrigia - Contract histories are clear and working, are they in a shoq info? Couldn't get history to work. Show info of what?
- Can you loan a new corpmember a corp covetor for a week for example, with a contracted 'rental' cost of 5 mil Tritanium payable at the end of the contract? No, ISK only.
- Can you automate contracts to reoccur? Such as mineral supply contracts? No.
- For courier contracts, can you select a POS hangar as a destination? Not sure, don't think so.
- Do contracts provide the ability to give corpmembers 'jobs', ie have corp contracts for manufacturing 10 frigats by end of week? take new Titan BPO, research to ME1 and deliver to X corp office? Depends how much you trust your corpies. You could use Freeform to set up jobs but there's next to impossible to code in all the fulfillment triggers one would need.
So instead of the overhyped "solution to IPOs, escrow spam and world hunger", we instead get... what? Taxes on an "auction" system with less entries per screen cm^2?
Instead of thinking hard to create more ways to make players hate and avoid something (skills, taxes, very low limits ...) how about create something useful? back when it was a blog, and not hard reality, we traders already talked how we dont really care about the new system, and that keeping escrow might actually be better for inter-alliance management (think freighter logistics ...). Right now, nothing in the new system makes me even entertain the thought to use it over what is aviable already.
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Cosmic Flame
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:07:00 -
[45]
This is a GAME people. The fact that taxes even exist on the market or anything else is just... stupid and ridiculous imho. For paying taxes we have reality. We play games to escape from that reality and have some fun, not to be hit with the same certain realities. For that i don't need to play a game.
N'uff said. |
Edheler
Quintessential Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:09:00 -
[46]
Taxes on contracts sound good. If people want to avoid the tax, it should take more effort on their part. Otherwise the convenience gets taxed.
I also agree there shouldn't be a minimum ISK amount for non-public contracts.
Edheler Quintessential CEO
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Krav
Egad Inc. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Krav on 31/10/2006 05:46:07
Originally by: Naran Darkmood make the tax the same thing Ebay is doing in RL. make it apply to the minium bid you enter and make the lowest possible amount (1 mil) free from tax. Want to sell that Dreadnought without tax? put it on the market for 1 mil isk
Hella yeah!!!
Krav
EDIT: Ebay works that way because of circulation and convience. This is exactly why contracts will also work if done this way. I personally never scan the forums for prices, I don't care to waste that much time to scrimp and save, it goes beyond my circle of convience, so to speak. Many people are like me in this game, and that's why ciculation of contracts will be higher than circulation of forums.... And that's why it's more likely to sell as a contract within a reasonable period of time. People griping about a 1% tax.. What's your sales tax IRL? Hmm? Yeah that's what I thought. In the immortal words of the Eagles song, "Get over it."
Krav =====
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2006.10.31 12:07:00 -
[48]
I've played with it. It looks good, and appears to be working fine, although:
- the display is probably going to get cluttered when hunting for auctions, make each item use less vertical space - while it's a good idea to limit the number of contracts (end of escrow spam!) I think the limit of 1 +1 per skill level is too harsh, it should be more like trade, at least 2. - it's not clear whether "Deliver" replaces "Escrow to specific person", I didn't test it.
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Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss 'Show Info' as in when you right click a portrait and can view characters standings...
yeah Not sure how it goes with this though.
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 17:32:00 -
[50]
Just to post it here again:
pretty please add the 'Calculate baseprice' button again whenever there is a minium bid or collateral to be enter. This is an easy way of gauging the average value for hanger sales and transports!
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.01 01:49:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gina Barbagrigia
yeah Not sure how it goes with this though.
Hmmm...well it looks like the contract history is there, but that message is about as clear as the skies over Manchester. I just hope people's contract histories are visible to all the population, and not restricted to within a corp or alliance...That'd be no aid when considering contracts with strangers.
Thanks for the screenies anyway.
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2006.11.02 23:24:00 -
[52]
Is it at all possible to place items into courier or auction from the assets screen? If it isn't, and selecting an item works like it does now, then courier will be pretty much unusable for me. Currently it takes me several minutes to place a single courier because of how long it takes to load the station list, and search for the station I want (after using the Assets screen to find out what station has the item I'm looking for). I stopped using courier a while ago, because it became unusable for my trade. |
Larshus Magrus
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.03 15:26:00 -
[53]
My 2 isk's mostly because I'm bored at work.
1) Taxes are good. I'd happily pay the 1% for the larger market exposure. I have a manufacturing alt and I enjoy this part of the game just as much as the pvp aspect.
2) The BoB member stating that because BC and BS prices are lower now than they were last year/2 years ago shows a deflationary economy is, sadly wrong. Inflation in EvE happens on items that are not mass marketed/easily obtainable. It happens on rare items. BC's and and BS's are easily manufactureable by ALOT of players now via BPC's and those who have aquired enough cash to buy the BPOS. Just because margins have fallen to say, 5% on these t1 items because there is more SUPPLY to meet demand does not mean that these items are deflationary.
Inflation/Deflation is a reflection on the entire ISK pool in game (You'd think I do this type of stuff in real life... oh wait, I do!) It is readily apparent by the price of rare modules, ships, and large ships that the isk pool in game is growing, not shrinking. Therefore, there is inflation. Is inflation bad? It can be if its too large. Most stable ecomomies, however, are inflationary and rely on a small amount of inflation to reflect and impact the average standard of living. Inflation fuels growth and hopefully grow is higher than inflation. If so, you have a growing, thriving economy.
CCP: Do you have an economist in house? I know it sounds wierd but the game is getting so big and the markets so dynamic this might not be a bad idea at some point.
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2006.11.04 03:43:00 -
[54]
I'll bug report here since some brilliant person took down the bug reporting link:
Contract Creation Main Page: Contract text boxes are the same color as the background, the only way you can find them is by hovering the mouse until you get the I beam.
There's a pop up if you have a name filled in the name box and you also have public checked. If public is checked just ignore the text box.
"Loan":
The loan contract makes no sense. A loan would lending isk (which you can only put isk collateral up for, self defeating) This is more of a rental contract. Which raises interesting questions like: if I loose a ship that is being rented who gets the insurance? Does the insurance transfer from owner to renter? Can the renter buy insurance on it?
Auction: The auction contract affords no minimum bid amount. So we can look forward to 1 ISK bids. Sales tax is applied to courier missions, but not auctions... clever.
Courier: -There's sales tax on a courier mission(ridiculous) -There's a deposit required by the person making the mission(ricoculous) -Collateral is required, which it shouldn't be and it's just annoying having to punch in 1000 isk just to make the popup god happy.
Contract viewing window: Right clicking a contract and clicking View Contract DOES NOT WORK, at all.
General: All search boxes have a minimum of character search. That's really taxing on a system, why not just go with 3 characters like the rest of eve?
Overall my impression of contracts is just plain bad. I didn't have high expectations, but I'm thoroughly disappointed. The most important thing is missing SECURE TRADE OF STOCK. All well almost got it right.
Seriously what's with all the pop ups?
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:18:00 -
[55]
The contracts you see today is only Phase 1, we'll be deploying improvements and additions to Contracts in every Kali release. This is simply to get the new contract infrastructure to work properly, less bugs, minimize risk of exploits and ensure a smooth transition from the old escrow/courier to the contract system.
Just the visibility rules on the contracts are quite complex. If I do a private contract, to whom should it be visible? If it's a contract for a corporation and I change corporation, do my new corporation see all the contracts from my old corporation?
However, if you find Contracts simple to use today, I'm very happy cause that was one of the goals. How to hide the complexity of the new system.
And just to point out, Contracts is not for volume trading of known items, that's what the Market is for. We'll be allowing more types to the market in Kali which will further emphasize the difference between Contracts and Market.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Liinn
Harbour Rats Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:49:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Liinn on 04/11/2006 14:49:17 I dont know if i put this here or in bugs but whats anoys me the most is the limit on currer mission on 20k m3.
I often need corp to move lots of lost of minerals from our refinary station to our factory (living in 0.0). Were talking lots of trit from loot. I was hoping this system would help me with it but it looks diffrent. Now i need to make them in 2 mio chunks and go throught the 4 steps wizard for each 2 mio chunk....
That will take lots of my time.
As u (Oveur) say there will be changes to contracts. Will this be changed in the future to handle more?
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Liinn Edited by: Liinn on 04/11/2006 14:49:17 I dont know if i put this here or in bugs but whats anoys me the most is the limit on currer mission on 20k m3.
I often need corp to move lots of lost of minerals from our refinary station to our factory (living in 0.0). Were talking lots of trit from loot. I was hoping this system would help me with it but it looks diffrent. Now i need to make them in 2 mio chunks and go throught the 4 steps wizard for each 2 mio chunk....
That will take lots of my time.
As u (Oveur) say there will be changes to contracts. Will this be changed in the future to handle more?
Didn't even know there was a limitation to courier although I faintly remember something about courier contracts which could have items which couldn't be moved in ships so you automatically failed. Now we have freighters so maybe this limitation can be eased.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Trek
Minmatar N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:26:00 -
[58]
I have looked a bit at the contracts-system on sisi and I'm glad to hear it is work in progress. However it does look promising!
Something my colleuge Amarria Lightwalker already has brought up however is that the contracts as they are now would hurt NAGA bad since we deliver our orders by means of the escrow system. Only being able to issue one single private contract without skills, and a maximum of 15 at level 5 is a real punch in the guts! My alt used for escrowing stuff has had more than twice that active already today... So having unlimited personal escrows are definetley something that would be nice! They don't clutter the public escrow window for others anyhow.
A function I would like to have would be if we could set up a contract through a link in the IGB. Would love the possibility to fill in which type, receiver for a private contract, comment and the isk wanted/offered field and duration. Item selection through a link might be a bit harder, but wanted items should be possible to fill in.
Also, the possibility to use shift-click to select a bunch of modules in the list for escrow would be nice.
Oh and one more thing! Make the window not block the entire UI so that I can use the other windows at the same time!
--- My other ship is a Reaper
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:44:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Trek I have looked a bit at the contracts-system on sisi and I'm glad to hear it is work in progress. However it does look promising!
Something my colleuge Amarria Lightwalker already has brought up however is that the contracts as they are now would hurt NAGA bad since we deliver our orders by means of the escrow system. Only being able to issue one single private contract without skills, and a maximum of 15 at level 5 is a real punch in the guts! My alt used for escrowing stuff has had more than twice that active already today... So having unlimited personal escrows are definetley something that would be nice! They don't clutter the public escrow window for others anyhow.
A function I would like to have would be if we could set up a contract through a link in the IGB. Would love the possibility to fill in which type, receiver for a private contract, comment and the isk wanted/offered field and duration. Item selection through a link might be a bit harder, but wanted items should be possible to fill in.
Also, the possibility to use shift-click to select a bunch of modules in the list for escrow would be nice.
Oh and one more thing! Make the window not block the entire UI so that I can use the other windows at the same time!
Last time I checked, private contracts only had a practical limit (50 or sth), not skill based.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Trek
Minmatar N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Oveur
Last time I checked, private contracts only had a practical limit (50 or sth), not skill based.
For a minute there I thought I had imagined it all, but no... Strangely enough I can issue two private contracts (item exchange) but when trying to create a third I get this message:
Quote:
You have reached the maximum number of contracts you can create for your skill level (1). Either delete one of your outstanding contracts or wait for it to expire before continuing. Note that expired contracts still have to be completed by you before you can create a new contract. You might be able to increase your level in the skill Contracting in order to have more concurrent outstanding contracts.
--- My other ship is a Reaper
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