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Saladinae
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
30
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Posted - 2015.04.05 15:29:35 -
[1] - Quote
This assumes you have 3 pilots for the 2D case (3 points makes plane) and 4 pilots for the 3D case (4 linearly independent points makes a space).
The 2D case: Using a total of 4 bookmarks, making a 200km by 200km square graph, one bookmark at the center of the square (origin of the graph), and two bookmarks at the end of the x and y axes of the graph, we can warp anywhere within the 200km x 200km grid. It should be noted that the following method can be adapted to a 3D cube, but for simplicity the 2D case will be described on the forums.
In the picture below, our pilot wants to warp to Point C, which is given by the coordinates (x,y). The pilot starts at the Green Corner, warps partially towards the orange corner, then warps partially towards the red corner, landing precisely on Point C.
http://s18.postimg.org/p5lb2cspl/Pinpoint_Warp_by_Saladinae.png
To determine the coordinates (x,y), there must be an OBSERVER in the center (observer 1 at Point B), and two observers equidistant from the centers, preferably at right angles (observers 2 and 3 at points A and D). Although the observers at points at A and D need not be at right angles, nor equidistant from the the center, it makes the math very easy to place them equidistant at a right angle from the center.
A basic application (easily programmed on a hand held graphing calculator) can readily determine the coordinates (x,y) of the target destination. Then it calculates where the red line (through Red Corner and Destination) intersects the side of the square. The application then spits out two values: K and L.
The pilot warps from Green Corner towards Orange Corner "within distance K" then warps towards Red Corner "within distance L"
The image below shows the programmer how to determine which corner is the "start" and "regulator." http://s23.postimg.org/nnwv92e97/No_Dead_Zones_in_Warp_Paradigm.png
Dead Zones: The title of the above picture is the "No Dead Zones." A Dead Zone is a region which a pilot cannot warp based on the limitations of game engine. Suppose our pilot said EUREKA, I can warp anywhere on a 500km by 500km grid by scaling the distance between the bookmarks!
I'd say: LOL! The "warp within" option is limited to 100km by the game engine. This means an area (starting from the center) is inaccessible, as these points are much further than 100km from any of the corners. The image below shows a massive Dead Zone on the 500km by 500km graph, compared to a 200km by 200km graph with overlapping coverage (no dead zones).
http://s11.postimg.org/kv0zrq3zn/Dead_Zone.png
I will do more updates on this (especially the 3D expansion of the concept) if there are positive reviews of the system being used.
Winmatar > Everything else
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Arla Sarain
375
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Posted - 2015.04.05 15:41:39 -
[2] - Quote
Wouldn't it be more prudent to consider a 250 by 250 square, that way if you warp at 100 you are still within warp distance of another BM.
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Saladinae
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
30
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Posted - 2015.04.05 15:59:17 -
[3] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Wouldn't it be more prudent to consider a 250 by 250 square, that way if you warp at 100 you are still within warp distance of another BM.
CHeck out the "dead zone" image, which is in the OP. The grid needs to be between 155km by 155km to 180km by 180km, depending upon "dead zone tolerance."
http://postimg.org/image/d7b2ab5h5/
Remember we're also talking about precision warping, not estimation warping.
Winmatar > Everything else
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Plato Forko
Percussive Diplomacy
145
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:20:43 -
[4] - Quote
shouldn't you only need two pilots for the 2D square? Set one pilot as the centre, go off 175km from that point with the other pilot, that gives you the centre plus one corner. Simultaneously, the pilot that was at centre can go 175km travelling perpendicular to the corner pilot's heading. That gives you two corners plus a centre. Then both pilots could warp straight back to centre, keep going 175km in the same heading and reach the final two corners. |
Saladinae
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
30
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Posted - 2015.04.06 02:14:22 -
[5] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:shouldn't you only need two pilots for the 2D square? Set one pilot as the centre, go off 175km from that point with the other pilot, that gives you the centre plus one corner. Simultaneously, the pilot that was at centre can go 175km travelling perpendicular to the corner pilot's heading. That gives you two corners plus a centre. Then both pilots could warp straight back to centre, keep going 175km in the same heading and reach the final two corners.
No. with only two pilots and target you'd have ambiguity.
See image below, tell me which one is correct: http://s8.postimg.org/wok4fhit1/Ambiguity.png
A third observer makes it into a function (one output).
Winmatar > Everything else
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Saladinae
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
30
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Posted - 2015.04.07 16:43:13 -
[6] - Quote
I wrote the code for a single 2D 155x155 grid today, I'll make a video of the process working in-game.
Winmatar > Everything else
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Plato Forko
Percussive Diplomacy
145
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Posted - 2015.04.07 21:31:36 -
[7] - Quote
Saladinae wrote:Also your idea takes a lot of time. With three observers standing still they can all enter their distances towards the target into an application and you get the warp instructions immediately.
So you're just talking about triangulating a position and warping relative to static BMs. For a moment I thought you were talking about calculating where to intercept a target, but for that you would need to also calculate target speed and heading. So, just to clarify, all of this is only applicable to figure out where to land on a target that is sitting still within the bookmarked area? |
Saladinae
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
30
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Posted - 2015.04.08 00:29:02 -
[8] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:Saladinae wrote:Also your idea takes a lot of time. With three observers standing still they can all enter their distances towards the target into an application and you get the warp instructions immediately. So you're just talking about triangulating a position and warping relative to static BMs. For a moment I thought you were talking about calculating where to intercept a target, but for that you would need to also calculate target speed and heading. So, just to clarify, all of this is only applicable to figure out where to land on a target that is sitting still within the bookmarked area?
It's easy to calculate the future position of a target moving in a straight line. For a straight line, simple get the velocity of the target (speed and direction) and the future position is a function of time. You would instruct the application to give you the target's position in 30-60 seconds depending on the warp speed/agility of your ship.
Anything moving in a curved line could be projected by quadratic regression, but it would take an entire guide to itself to explain this.
Try to think big. Imagine a large sov battle in nullsec, where the defenders had 3 observers feeding data into an application (their distances to certain targets) upon demand of an FC/wingcommander/squadcommander, and then the application feeds the the output (warp instructions) to the FC/WC/SC to warp his fleet/wing/squad to a precise location.
Here's an image of sniper fleet warping to their optimal range from a target. Notice that they can warp to any point on the brown circle. If the application has a plugin/feature with a GUI, they can simply choose a point on the circle and get their instructions.
http://s7.postimg.org/pyov8f7t7/500_by_500_expansion_with_optimal.png
Back in 2012 or 2013, when I was in RvB, I created a system of polar coordinate bookmarks that allowed me to always get pretty close to my target by simply eyeballing it. When I shared my secret, I was warned by the RvB staff not to use it anymore since it was distressing EvE regulars (the regulars would often sit off the enemy station and try to bait/kite/snipe the noobs. Although this was a good learning experience for the noobs, my system turned the regulars into the prey LOL, as I would warp noob fleets on top of them).
Winmatar > Everything else
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Arla Sarain
376
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Posted - 2015.04.08 13:27:56 -
[9] - Quote
CCP just uncapped bookmark count.
:D
I get the impression it won't last very long. |
Saladinae
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
30
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Posted - 2015.04.08 14:42:11 -
[10] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:CCP just uncapped bookmark count.
:D
I get the impression it won't last very long.
In the year of 2015 and the data storage capabilities available compared to a a decade+ ago, the only reason to reverse the change would be to sabotage using bookmarks in a manner like this.
Winmatar > Everything else
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Saladinae
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
30
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Posted - 2015.04.08 21:26:12 -
[11] - Quote
Would CCP allow this type of activity, where you manually feed inputs into a calculator, and the you manually apply the outputs of the calculator for a direct in-game advantage?
Winmatar > Everything else
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