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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:42:00 -
[1]
IMO the harbringer is ok, *exept* that it needs 1 less high and 1 more low.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Aramendel on 27/10/2006 12:31:23
Originally by: Sniser so you want they take out one turret and less pg for more cpu? nice! obviously you arent amarr if you want they nerf it lol. There is no way the ship dont have an utility high slot since all bc tier2 ships have it. They current dps balance is based on drones
It cannot use the utility high slot (which is pretty much limited for nos anyway) due to grid issues in either case. And just because all tier 2 BCs currently have one does not mean all *have* to have one. For the tier 1 BCs all exept the Brutix have one too. Did not stop the Brutix having 7 turrets & 7 highs.
Typically amarr ships have 1 more low than other ships of the same class, this is not the case for the tier 2 BCs. And for the harbringer 1 more low would be far more useful than 1 non-turret high.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 14:43:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sniser if you cant use the utility slot then you are agree with me and there isnt enough powergrid
Nope, I agree with you that the utility slot is kinda worthless for it atm.
But IMO it would be better for the harbringer if it would be converted into an low slot instead of having it's powergrid increased to use it.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 17:12:00 -
[4]
To emphasize: Heavy Assault Missiles. A little word can change things quite a lot.
I wouldn't necessarily agree that they are the equivalent to blasters, though. On the BCs certainly with 13km range for rage ass. But on the caracal thats 20km and on the cerb 30km. The range bonus of the missile cruiser makes the "shortrange" missiles a bit to strong IMO.
And nevermind the javeling ammo. Right now you get there an 550% range boost from t1, from 15 to 100 km. Which is way too much. To compare, the range boost of jav rockets is 180% and the jav torps 150%.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 18:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Calculon ....Which means you're locked into your short, less-than-15km range unless you have the T2 versions in there. :)
Which have an 100 km range. Hopefuly also an error just like the "old" damage of the rage assaults.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: SmokeDog Uhm well I calculated my Drake DPS last night with 3 bcu II on and it was hardly overwhelming.. granted I have Battlecruisers 1 and Heavy Assault Missiles 2 at the moment and was using Arbalest Heavy Assault Launchers.. 153dmg per missile and a 3.56sec rof.. about 300dps, granted there a lot of room for improvement.. maybe can get the DPS up to 500.. with a max range of 15km (max missile skills, which I have except for the HAMs) and a top speed of 400m/s with an afterburner II (max nav), hardly overpowered though.
Well, with 2 BCU2 and rage you can get over 600 dps with max skills (and 5 hobgoblins). With javelin assaults you can push it to almost 500 dps for up to 60 km atm.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:39:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Aramendel on 27/10/2006 20:41:25
Originally by: Black Scorpio Hey Alt, what is the penalty again for using the Rage "HAM"s that you so much push forward?
Because the other races t2 heavy damage ammo has no penalities.. oh wait. On a sidenote, when did I ever "push the penality" forward?
Oh well, I guess I have to talk with the members in my noob starter corp a bit more.
Originally by: Nyxus Harbinger:
Originally by: Goumingdog According to Toaster Oven, the damage difference between A T2 fitted Harbinger fitting Heavy Pulses and a T2 fitted Hurricane fitting 220's is about 4% DPS in favor of the Harbinger. But in that situation the Hurricane has 637 more powergrid to play around with than the Harbinger and doesnt used cap.
This is a problem. Traditional Amarr ships have more guns (dps) and armor tanking via extra low slots.
Change Harbinger to 7/4/7 and add 600 more base grid.
This balances it out against the Hurricane and Drake as it will have an extra low (its Amarrffs) and slightly more grid than the Hurricane after fitting comparable weapons. Hurricane will have more cpu.
Nyxus
PS- Myrm needs a bit more love, be it in drones, turrets, dampers, or something else.
Nyxus
Agreed.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:00:00 -
[8]
The myr should get 200-225 m¦ dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.
225m¦ drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:49:00 -
[9]
Hail had it's speed penalitiy removed, welcome to the future.
And all other tier 2 BCs can deal more dps than 5 heavies with the drone bonus with t1 ammo!
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:10:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Aramendel on 29/10/2006 15:10:39
Originally by: Dixon that would be one mean nos-pwnmobile...
Why not give it a large dronebay (200-250m3) but no drone bonus and a hybrid bonus instead. Then they can have their heavys and some backups but they don't to BBQ damage.
Well, it wouldn't be one any more than an Ishtar. All t2 cruisers seem to me somewhat stronger than their racial HACs on the cost of speed, agility & range.
Note that the tier2 BCs are rather heavy and are not very fast even with MWDs, so for a Myr getting into med nos range isn't something it can do easily. It's only 12 km, not 25 km like with the domi.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.30 11:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Packtu'sa Harbinger (Amarr) - It looks like a nice ganking boat. No bonuses to tanking, but the capacitor need reduction and damage bonus looks simple and solid. Its four midslots to six lowslots go along with its nature as a pure-damage boat, rather than a ship that tanks damage. Seems fine to me.
Problem is that vs the hurricane it is worse in every aspect but drone bay. It is slower, it's tank is worse, it does less dps and has less fitting space avaiable after shortrange weapons fitted.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:56:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aramendel on 31/10/2006 16:03:25 Actually, weapon vs weapon ACs autodamage pulses (with the first shipbonus). At a lower range, of cource. But the hurricane has a speed advantage and can control it. The reason the Harbringer has more dps lies in it's bigger drone bay.
And, yes, higher speed and lower sig are typical minmatar advantages. But that does not make them invalid for comparing the ships. And there are also problems there. For which race would you say is "tanking" a typical advantage? And hurriance can fit a better tank than the Harbringer - it has more grid left after ACs and does not need to use cap to sustain it's weapon fire. The higher caprecharge of the harbringer is only enough to counter about 15% of the total capdrain of 7 heavy pulse 2 at peak recharge.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.31 23:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Alek Row I have to agree, that's why I think the Harbinger could use a better tank, or a 7th low slot with more cap or a tanking bonus (don't know how this *bonus change* would be accepted by the Amarr Comunity tbh).
The the dps would fall significantly below every other tier 2 BC. It's not really a solution.
Quote: About the Hurricane speed and the fact that it is an advantage, I think that some people will shield tank the Hurricane in PVP with nanos and gyros in lows, not leaving room for a web in the mids. I know I'm only making assumptions now...
People being stupid and trying to use the Hurrican as big vaga (which won't really work) is not exactly a balance argument.
Quote: With 4 mids, both ships can be bit impredictable on their fittings, we have a nice array of modules to install in the 4 mids, and with a 75m3 drone bay the Harbinger can even put 3 webfier drones too per example (maybe it's a really dumb ideia, I don't know how much this drones really web or if they are really usefull).
Apart from the 50m¦ there is this problem that web drones get killed really really fast by medium-small weapons. Or enemy drones.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.01 23:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Logan Xerxes
Originally by: keepiru Good stuff
Thank you for the helpful graphs that illustrate that the Drake is not going to kill everything that comes within 15km.
One should note, though, that this is only for T1 ammo. T2 ammo is changing this, especially the javelin assaults. Instead having 99 dps post 15 km the drake has with those 484 dps from 15-50 km.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.08 16:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zixxa Forget about faction implants, faction shield boosters, etc. We are about PvP, where usage of expensive modules is bad idea. When we have t2 reppers/boosters we have better armour/cap than shield/cap. Always everywehere in any reasonable setup. And comparable amount of boosting/repping(boosting, afair, minimally better) when we are using XL t2+amplifier against double L t2 repperes. In Kali gaps between armour tanked and shield tank will increased more, because of 50% increase if HP.(Armour plates have much more HP than shield extenders).
Maybe look at the advantages and not only the disadvantages?
For a heavy tank (aka dual rep or oversized SB + SBA) both tanks do pretty much the same thing, as you said. IMO a slight imbalanced of the shieldtanker having a better capeffeciency there (assuming shield comp lvl 3 or higher) AND having a better rep/second, but it's nothing major.
For a light tank, yes, armortank has a better capeffeciency. But guess what, a shieldtank has an advantage, too. It repairs more per second than the armortank. For a single slot with same size modules it's armortank: better capeffeciency and worse rep/second and shieldtank: worse capefficiency and better rep/second.
For plates vs extenders the main problem is that there are no oversized extenders, but there are oversized plates. On the other hand the same thing in reverse is true for armor reps vs shield boosts. There are XL SBs, but not XLARs. Same as above, both tanking options have advantages in one erae and disadvantages in another.
Quote: Do you have screenshot from the Sisi about it? Or at least text in ship description?
Rook bonus got increased from 10% to 20% per lvl for example. Add 2 of the new ECM damage mods in the lows and a max skilled rook will have 94% of it's current jamming power.
And only a paperthin tank of cource, but tux pretty much said that ECM ships are supposed to have that. Can't keep the cake and eat it.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.12 11:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Plus don't forget the 3 rig slots which will help improve the drones even more.
Before anyone else complains I would like to really hear about how the drone rigs improve the drones on the myrmidon. I ask this because I have not heard of anyone using drone rigs yet.
Drone rigs are not that useful. They only give you stuff like speed or control range increase. The only +damage drone rig is for sentry drones. There exists no +dronebay rig.
And for balancing the myrmidon vs other drone ships righs are pretty useless in the first place anyway, sicne theother drone ships can fit them just as well.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 18:31:00 -
[17]
Myrmidon is the gallente maller.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.15 09:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tuxford No what I mean is don't fit a Drake with just gank and tank and then compare it to battlecruiser with guns/tackling/tank. Its not fair. But even so, I'd still say Drake is pretty much pwnage, even when splitting its medslots between tank and tackling.
Well, the thing is that BCs are by their very definition gang ships. So one might argue that tackling is not realyl an important factor for them. Without tackling gear the other BCs will still be a good bit weaker than the drake.
Another thing, which has been said several times, but never was commented: Are the HAM javelin stats a bug or intended? With those the drake currently has an 100 km range last time I checked. That is a 560% range boost. To compare, javelin rockets have +180% range and javelin torps +150% range.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.15 19:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Aramendel on 15/11/2006 19:42:03
Originally by: Kruel Something that often isn't taken into account is that even IF the Myr were to do more raw DPS on paper than the other BCs, in a realistic situation it wouldn't. Every time a drone is shot, the Myr pilot would have to call the drone back. DPS goes down. The further the drone has to travel will effect the overall drone DPS even more.
While the Myr does need some love this reasoning is flawed.
Where do you think the shots at the drone come from? Out of thin air? Yes, if your enemy tries to kill a drone you have to call it back and as result your dps suffers temporary. But so does your enemies dps, because he is not shooting at you, but at the drone (doh! ).
Originally by: Aki Yamato So witch way are you going to harm him ? Reduce CPU ? Decrease medslots ? Replace rezist bonus to missile speed bonus ? Increase shield recharge time ? Decrease powergrid ? Replace RoF bonus to kinetic dmg ?
Everyone wants nerf drake an yea it great ship (finaly after 3 crappy caldari BC class ships), but how to make bit less great without making it another pice of flying junk.
Personally I would say: 6 launchers. The nighthawk has only 6, too, after all.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.15 20:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Goumindong Not if the drake is fitting HAMs.
Heavy Assault Missiles have[aside from javs] A very short range. Drakes fitting them will most likly not be mission running[because it would be faster to just fit heavies and pick up the pieces later].
Exept there are HAM javs. Which have ATM a rediculous range. Even if they get balanced and get an similar rangeboost compared to their t1 versions as jav rockets and torps get they will still have a range of 40 km, which should be plenty for the majority of the PvP the Drake will engage in. In exchange they deal 10% less dps, yes, but that is about the same what turrets get when switching from the best t1 ammo to their t2 longrange ammo.
It should be for a drake better to switch to jav ammo if it gets outrange than nerfing it's cap (and fitting) with a MWD.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.16 09:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Goumindong Yea, but again, then it needs a tackler or someone else to be in range with a 20km scram. And again, it still cant kill anything without that scram because it cant keep things in range and comparing it to pvp fits with scrams/webs of the other BC's is ridiculous.
Yes.
But the thing is: BCs are not exactly the most effective tacklers. Slow targeting & low speed. Unless your target does not pay attention the only ship a single BC can relieably tackle is a BS. And probably other BCs with a ~50:50 chance depending how far they come out of warp.
So regardless which BC people are flying, having an inty tackler is always a very good idea. And a Drake will still blow the other BCs out of the water when they do not use any meds for tackling gear.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.16 11:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: murder one Big time.
To repeat what I answered that poster - if a drone is shot at you need something which shoots it. That dps is not coming out of thin air. By shooting at drones you will reduce the myrs dps AND your dps.
So effeciently it won't really put the myr in any dps disadvantage vs the other ship. Unless it only sends 1 single warrior on a drone, but then the myr can take it's time to recall it.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.16 13:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Aramendel on 16/11/2006 14:01:25
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Ummm, what? The Myrmidon can currently only wield 4 heavies, with no spares. Sure, it takes some extra effort to kill a drone, but every drone you kill of those 4 means a huge permanent drop to DPS. Without the drones, and with no spares, the Myrmidon DPS is pitiful.
So tell me again how I can permanently kill the primary weapon systems of the other ships, especially now with ECM fixed to only work properly on ECM-specialist ships?
That particular comment was about recalling drones BEFORE they get killed (in order to avoid them getting killed) and the resulting dps loss because they spend some time in transit and do not shoot the other ship all the time.
Original comment:
Originally by: Kruel Something that often isn't taken into account is that even IF the Myr were to do more raw DPS on paper than the other BCs, in a realistic situation it wouldn't. Every time a drone is shot, the Myr pilot would have to call the drone back. DPS goes down. The further the drone has to travel will effect the overall drone DPS even more.
Does it says anything about destroyed drones? No? It was referring about the dps reduction droneships get when they juggled drones. But, as said, if a droneship has to juggle them the enemy ship is also focussing some of it's dps on them, so both ships get a dps reduction. So that particular argument is not really valid.
Does not mean that the myr does not need an 150-225m¦ dronebay, though.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nalshiga Dshoayo with DEFENDER missiles (which DO WORK GREATLY by the way)
Test them in real PvP once. The defender missle use of NPCs does NOT reflect their effeciency in PvP.
Also, they are no real counter because their fitting is not free. For every defender launcher you fit you loose 1 turret, nos or (damage) misile slot of your own to counter a missile slot of someone attacking you with missiles.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Aki Yamato You always must choose between ofence and defence..
You mean like a missle spammer can fit a full rack of weapons, a full tank and 3 damagemods?
And the problem is, again, that you are loosing one damage/nos slot - which is useful vs everything (if it is in range, that is) in exchange for a defender (which is ONLY useful vs missiles, and even there lack quite a lot in real pvp; and nvmd that not every ship even has missleslots). And, as said, defenders do not work very well. Even if you have 8 defender launchers on a ship you will usually only be able to kill 1 missle of a salvo because all always go vs the nearest missile.
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