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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.28 23:40:00 -
[361]
Are you factoring in the fact that the rig skill decreases the penalty to 50% @ lvl5? ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Alek Row
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:46:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:49:54 Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:47:17
Originally by: Sniser
you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?
ACs don't shoot without ammo, and I think projectile reloads take more time than crystal reloads.
Reload time surelly counts on overall DPS when we're talking about projectiles, we can't shoot without ammo and you can shoot without crystals. Not without cap, but without crystals you still can shoot.
----- --- -- - - Hadean Drive Yards |
Rahjadan Shardur
Minmatar Poisoned Heart
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:53:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Alek Row Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:47:17
Originally by: Sniser
you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?
ACs don't shoot without ammo, and I think projectile reloads take more time than crystal reloads.
Reload time surelly counts on overall DPS when we're talking about projectiles, we can't shoot without ammo and you can shoot without crystals. Not without cap, but with crystals you can still shoot.
no actualy he can't shoot without crystals but laser crystal change time ist about 2sec. as for the AC reload: 2 reloads maybe depanding on the tank, which is already 20sec without damage.
------------------ Life is but a dream... |
Alek Row
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.10.29 01:03:00 -
[364]
Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 01:03:00
Originally by: Rahjadan Shardur
no actualy he can't shoot without crystals but laser crystal change time ist about 2sec. as for the AC reload: 2 reloads maybe depanding on the tank, which is already 20sec without damage.
My mistake then, didn't knew that. Thx. ----- --- -- - - Hadean Drive Yards |
Spaja Saist
Gallente Knights of Retribution
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Posted - 2006.10.29 02:10:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: SmokeDog Uhm well I calculated my Drake DPS last night with 3 bcu II on and it was hardly overwhelming.. granted I have Battlecruisers 1 and Heavy Assault Missiles 2 at the moment and was using Arbalest Heavy Assault Launchers.. 153dmg per missile and a 3.56sec rof.. about 300dps, granted there a lot of room for improvement.. maybe can get the DPS up to 500.. with a max range of 15km (max missile skills, which I have except for the HAMs) and a top speed of 400m/s with an afterburner II (max nav), hardly overpowered though.
Well, with 2 BCU2 and rage you can get over 600 dps with max skills (and 5 hobgoblins). With javelin assaults you can push it to almost 500 dps for up to 60 km atm.
Hey Alt, what is the penalty again for using the Rage "HAM"s that you so much push forward?
You have got to be the most immature poster I've had the misfortune to read. And what makes this person an alt. She's in a corp and alliance. I see no corp or alliance in your sig so that must mean you're just an alt who likes to flame people for no reason. Please for the sake of contructive posting just stop. You just make yourself look bad and we have enough of that on the forums.
As to the Mym, Up the drone bay to 120m3 and give the ship another turret. After all the artist seems to think it needs another turret.
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Malafor
Spontaneous Defenestration
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Posted - 2006.10.29 02:43:00 -
[366]
My suggestion to fixing the "Myrmidon-problem".
Instead if increasing its drone bay, Just make it possible to move drones from cargo to the drone bay. That would eliminate alot of problems with many drone ships. Like the Vexor,Arbitrator and pilgrim/curse.
This way the Myrmidon would be abble to have spare heavy drones when fielding 4 heavys in battle.
And i dont think it would need a 5th heavy drone for more dps, Seeing its slot layout it has alot of advantage in battle as it is so versatile in every field.
It can both nos or use turrets, It has alot of med-slots for ew, It has a Repair bonus which makes it a good tank.
That is my oppinion, in a pvp point of view.
(And plz dont change the Drake, and fix more cap for the Harbringer.) -
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 03:21:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Malafor
Instead if increasing its drone bay, Just make it possible to move drones from cargo to the drone bay. That would eliminate alot of problems with many drone ships.
wouldnt work under current mechanics i believe. you could launch your 4 heavies then move a heavy from cargo to drone bay and launch that one. once your done just scoop on into the cargo bay.
with this change in place every ship with at least 25m3 dronebay would be able to field 5 heavy drones.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.10.29 06:26:00 -
[368]
Edited by: Goumindong on 29/10/2006 06:28:40
Originally by: keepiru Are you factoring in the fact that the rig skill decreases the penalty to 50% @ lvl5?
No, i hadnt, this makes the issue not quite as bad when both ships/gun types fit rigs, but you still have the same problem with powergrid usage and its still easier for the Hurricane to fit gun rigs as opposed to the harbinger.
For instance, at max rig skills with 3 gun rigs, a 425 autocannon I uses 48 PG less than a unmodified Heavy Pulse I, 44 PG with AWU 5. With both guns fitted, the harbinger at max skills will have 185 less powergrid than a hurricane at max skills.
The hurricane of course, will be doing significantly more damage with no cap usage.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.29 07:03:00 -
[369]
Well, ome interesting numbers to be sure, they're only right assuming tux does increase EMP damage so it does as much as Multifrequency and Antimatter tho.
I think the problem here is one tux touched upon once, and that is, fitting difference between Autocannons and Howitzers is too large, and it makes balancing minnie ships very hard.
Regardless, I'm going to hold my council about this particular issue until SISI is stable enough for extended testing. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Parou Qong
Federation Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 08:13:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 29/10/2006 03:50:14
Originally by: Malafor
Instead if increasing its drone bay, Just make it possible to move drones from cargo to the drone bay. That would eliminate alot of problems with many drone ships.
wouldnt work under current mechanics i believe. you could launch your 4 heavies then move a heavy from cargo to drone bay and launch that one. once your done just scoop one into the cargo bay.
with this change in place every ship with at least 25m3 dronebay would be able to field 5 heavy drones.
This is actually a good solution.
Make moving drones from cargo to drone bay a specific bonus for this ship only. To prevent moving an extra drone into bay that shouldn't be there, have client do a check on m3 of drones currently in space (when attempting to move a drone into the drone bay).
This will take just a moment but with pvp taking longer shouldn't be a factor. I'm not sure whether can be done with current mechanics, but it's an interesting concept.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.29 08:55:00 -
[371]
or, instead of thowing away the entire system and starting over from scratch.. the myrm could get a plenty bigger drone bay. tada, problem solved.
Blaque or Foiritan |
Soratah
Amarr Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.10.29 09:55:00 -
[372]
Sounds like the jury's still out deliberating, but looking at the raw maths that some people have posted.
Tier 2 BC top damage will be the Minmatar at close range, with Caldari coming in second. Myrmidon third, even with it's current dronebay situation. Last of all, the Harbinger with it's trademark Amarrian - buggered fitting requirements and laser capabilities.
As I've seen someone else posting
It's great being Amarrian...
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Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.29 10:29:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Alek Row Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:49:54 Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:47:17
Originally by: Sniser
you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?
ACs don't shoot without ammo, and I think projectile reloads take more time than crystal reloads.
Reload time surelly counts on overall DPS when we're talking about projectiles, we can't shoot without ammo and you can shoot without crystals. Not without cap, but without crystals you still can shoot.
Sorry but my t2 crystals gone too. What do you think if my crystals t2 broke and you still have t2 ammo? maybe i can still shoot with t1 ammo but im going to die since i cant do the same dps with my lost
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Spaced Skunk
Yesodic Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.29 10:34:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Frools Edited by: Frools on 27/10/2006 13:20:36 7/4/7 harbinger with 7 turrets and maybe a touch more grid would be hawt
what about the absolution?
People are getting carried away here arent they hehe
Remember people these ships are tech1 :)
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Coreantes
Phoenix Wing
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:46:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Zeknichov Change the myrmidon to a Drone+EW ship. Take away the armor rep bonus and replace it with a Sensor Dampener strength or range/cap bonus. Replace two high slots with 2 medium slots and remove another turret.
I would like this. Gives Gallente more defensive capabilities. The Brutix will still be the damage+tank, the Myrmidon will be able to do a crossing between the Vexor and the Celestis, or kind of the big version for the Amarr Arbitrator!
As for the drone-bay, I think it's fair to have 10 medium T2 drones! Giving it the option to launch heavies or sentries would be to much. It's not a BS, you know? But a drone-EW hybrid would be fun! ---------------------------------------------- Good is only skin deep, Evil is dead down to the bone...
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Jom Lik
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Posted - 2006.10.29 12:31:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Jom Lik on 29/10/2006 12:35:38 Edited by: Jom Lik on 29/10/2006 12:35:01 To make things easier here is recap about Myrmidon (it looks like most people that posted are not happy with it) from thread. I hope this list can help dev to see what concerns other players have.
- Many players mentioning that Myrmidon needs a larger drone bay - Suggestion about drone bonus change and different bonuses: to give dmg/other (speed bounus etc.), drone dmg bonuses (different for light/med and heavy, dmg bonuses only for light/med) - Suggestion about +1 drone control per skill level - Suggestion anout +25m3 drone space per skill level - Most players mentioning drone bay increase from 125m3 to 200m3 - Some players mentioning cut in number of high slots and adding of one more low slot (for improved tank). - Many players pointing that with HP boost for ships and no dmg boost for drones simple tactics will be to destroy all drones first and kill Myrmidon (without drones Myrm is loosing a lot of offensive power) - There is concern from some of players that without turret bonuses once when drones are dead Myrmidon is next to useless - There are comments about drones being very expensive (T2) in comparision with other T2 ammo and once drones are dead replacement will be very expensive (with new improved ship HP players will first target and destroy drones) - Many players agreed that in 1 vs 1 Myrmidon is usually doomed against other Tier-2 BCs - It looks like biggest fear for non Gallente players is from heavy drones - Many players pointing that average DPS for Myrm is lower than other Tier-2 and even some Tier-1 BCs
This is just recap of things from thread and not my personal opinion. My personal opinion below.
What looks like general 'problem' with BCs is that they are using cruiser sized modules/weapons. That is only class I think that is using stuff for another class of ships. There is not a single module dedicated for BCs and BCs in general are much bigger than average cruiser. I would like to see BC size 20Mn MWD or something similar :)
I did have luck to try actual ship and from my experience Myrm is really not on pair with other Tier-2 BCs. Drake is uber machine and both Amarr/Minmatar ships are looking pretty balanced.
I would like to see change in drone space - 200m3 will be great what gives player ability to have 1 wave of heavy, med and light drones but more important of all gives flexibility (I can chose to take 10 light, 5 med and assortment of ECM, web drones or any combo I see fit to my tactics). Also I can live without 1 (even 2) high slots for one more low slot for improved tank. PG/CPU can be tweaked to reflect changes if necesary.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:00:00 -
[377]
The myr should get 200-225 m¦ dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.
225m¦ drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corps Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:34:00 -
[378]
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/10/2006 13:35:43
Originally by: Aramendel The myr should get 200-225 m¦ dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.
225m¦ drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.
T2 ammo has stacking penalties. Ever try a minmatar ac boat with hail? They almost move backwards and cap recharge rate skyrockets. I fly minmatar primarily and don't know about the other T2 ammo, but they all have a penalty that stack per turret loaded with it. T2 drones don't have a penalty of any kind other than "OMGWTF$"? All the T2 drones are faster and tougher than the T1. They may cost more but that is the only penalty incurred. They don't reduce the amount drained by nos/neutralizers .
All who want the new gallente BC to have 225m drone bays just want a cheaper dominix and more uber vexor. As far as a "Damper" bonus... lmfao. Hell no, people are going to fit it with ewar anyway. No turrets? Rather silly there.
Strip the drone bonuses, give it a hybrid damage bonus, let it have the 225m bay, maybe give it a mwd cap reduction so it's more like a thorax than a vexor on steroids. THUKKER
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:49:00 -
[379]
Hail had it's speed penalitiy removed, welcome to the future.
And all other tier 2 BCs can deal more dps than 5 heavies with the drone bonus with t1 ammo!
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:12:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2006 14:14:30
Originally by: Futher Bezluden Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/10/2006 13:37:26 Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/10/2006 13:35:43
Originally by: Aramendel The myr should get 200-225 m¦ dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.
225m¦ drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.
T2 ammo has stacking penalties. Ever try a minmatar ac boat with hail? They almost move backwards and cap recharge rate skyrockets. I fly minmatar primarily and don't know about the other T2 ammo, but they all have a penalty that stack per turret loaded with it. T2 drones don't have a penalty of any kind other than "OMGWTF$"? All the T2 drones are faster and tougher than the T1. They may cost more but that is the only penalty incurred. They don't reduce the amount drained by nos/neutralizers .
All who want the new gallente BC to have 225m drone bays just want a cheaper dominix and more uber vexor. As far as a "Damper" bonus... lmfao. Hell no, people are going to fit it with ewar anyway. No turrets? Rather silly there.
Strip the drone bonuses, give it a hybrid damage bonus, let it have the 225m bay, maybe give it a mwd cap reduction so it's more like a thorax on steroids than a vexor on steroids.
No t2 drone penaties? Have you ever tried buying t2 ogres or hammerheads?
the t1 to t2 cost ratio is rediculas, far in excess of any other item beyond t2 cap rechargers Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:15:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Aramendel Hail had it's speed penalitiy removed, welcome to the future.
And all other tier 2 BCs can deal more dps than 5 heavies with the drone bonus with t1 ammo!
well said sir.. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Dixon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:21:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Aramendel The myr should get 200-225 m¦ dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.
225m¦ drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.
that would be one mean nos-pwnmobile...
Why not give it a large dronebay (200-250m3) but no drone bonus and a hybrid bonus instead. Then they can have their heavys and some backups but they don't to BBQ damage. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other... |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:34:00 -
[383]
No, it wont be a mean NOSPwnMobile because its powergrid sucks far too hard for any decent amount of nossage with a tank under it.
NOS + Drones is only that good when you have ECM in the mix as well, and that wont be happening anymore. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Dixon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:37:00 -
[384]
Originally by: keepiru No, it wont be a mean NOSPwnMobile because its powergrid sucks far too hard for any decent amount of nossage with a tank under it.
NOS + Drones is only that good when you have ECM in the mix as well, and that wont be happening anymore.
then it will be a mild nos-decentmobile. I still think the answer is to not give it a drone damage bonus. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other... |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:10:00 -
[385]
Edited by: Aramendel on 29/10/2006 15:10:39
Originally by: Dixon that would be one mean nos-pwnmobile...
Why not give it a large dronebay (200-250m3) but no drone bonus and a hybrid bonus instead. Then they can have their heavys and some backups but they don't to BBQ damage.
Well, it wouldn't be one any more than an Ishtar. All t2 cruisers seem to me somewhat stronger than their racial HACs on the cost of speed, agility & range.
Note that the tier2 BCs are rather heavy and are not very fast even with MWDs, so for a Myr getting into med nos range isn't something it can do easily. It's only 12 km, not 25 km like with the domi.
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Nebuli
Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:38:00 -
[386]
Cant believe I read someone say why dont tech 2 drones have stacking negatives like tech 2 ammo, all I can say is...
Counter with, why dont your tech 2 turrets and launchers have stacking negatives?
CEO - Art of War
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.29 22:39:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Nebuli Cant believe I read someone say why dont tech 2 drones have stacking negatives like tech 2 ammo, all I can say is...
Counter with, why dont your tech 2 turrets and launchers have stacking negatives?
well, T2 weapons ARE harder to fit, while T2 drones only have skill and price as drawbacks. -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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Temo Jick
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Posted - 2006.10.29 22:43:00 -
[388]
I havnt boverd to check so if you would like to look it up you can probably prove me wrong. But i thought that between the bonuses of T2 launchers/turrets and the T2 Amunition for them they were improved by more then the drones were hence ballenced. Now if this was the case then with the T2 ammo nerf it may not be any more.
Maybe some one should check. Im too lazy ^.^
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Caewack
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Posted - 2006.10.30 00:02:00 -
[389]
Edited by: Caewack on 30/10/2006 00:04:58
Originally by: Black Scorpio Quote: "When another BC can take away 80% of your damage before your drones even get to it something is wrong..."
Answer: Pot in very high quantities is bad for you! Stop while you have something left in your head that you can use, or is it too late!
Don't blame pot, pot is good. One might think your head took a beating when you say something as dumb as above.
oh, and btw. Make 4 stickies for each battlecruiser.. There is no system in the threads and the replys are all mixed up. Makes it close to impossible to discuss anything in here.
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Jaxtet
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Posted - 2006.10.30 01:12:00 -
[390]
As far as drawbacks of T2 drones vs. T2 turrets, etc - T2 turrets can't be targeted explicitly and destroyed or disabled.
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