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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:06:00 -
[421]
Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 30/10/2006 20:58:26 Well, "DPS Multiplier" as a comparison tool is kinda useless until.
EMP M does less damage than AM M and MF M You don't calculate damage@range and tracking - need NB's spreadsheet for this You don't factor in reload time over your average fight time - again need NB's spreadsheet for this
Not that I've been able to find a setup that can fit MWD + Injector + DUal rep or Rep + 1600 on the Hurricane with 425s and a nos or heavy assault, I have to use 220s.
Regardless, looks to me they should give it back its 8th turret.
Titainium Sabot M and EMP M both do 22 damage. MF M does 24. If you want, you can give the FMP a 9% boost in damage[equal to BC 1 now], for that.
It isnt going to help much.
Now if you start looking at its based armor damage instead of the base damage differences, you will start seeing that go the other way. Not sure what happens when you average between the two based on the number of shield/armor tankers, but i doubt it will be favorable to the lasers.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:17:00 -
[422]
here the graph...
hur vs har
doesn't seem that the har is that crap... just a consideration or 2...
i used "old" t2 ammos value and also i'm using vespas that are not the highest dps drones.
also i disagree that long range is useless if you can't dictate range... actually is quite the opposite...
i short range ship that can't dictate range risk to get "easilly" outranged, for ship with longer range there is not this risk...
you risk a bit for tracking but then webber can help a lot.
and the harb also should be able to dictate range against all BCs except the 2 minnies, while all BCs should be not be able to dictate range against most cruisers
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Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:01:00 -
[423]
I finally got a chance to fly the drake this afternoon and it seems pretty good. It's a very tight fit to get tech 2 launchers on it though, even with AWU. Zarch AlDain
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James Draekn
X.E.N.O.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:08:00 -
[424]
Edited by: James Draekn on 30/10/2006 23:12:52 Just ran the math on Ogre 2's, if the Myrmidons slots layout/bonuses were changed to the following:
4 highs(no turrets) 5 mids 7 lows 500m3 drone bay
+1 drone controlled per level +10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Ogre 2's stats Damage mod of 1.92 Damage or 24 ROF 2
So we take the numbers and go......
1.92* (2[drone interfacing 5, 100% increase in drone damage] + .25 [heavy drone operation] + .1 [adv gal drone skill] + .5 [bc skill]) = 5.472 damage mod
damage doesn't change = 24
rof doesnt change = rof 2
so we get 5.472*24/2=65.664 PER DRONE for DPS
times that by 10= 656.64 MAX DPS with full skills on 10 ogre 2's in space.
The drones have to be within 5km of their target and they have no drone damage mods, no rof mods. This would be a true drone boat.
After running those numbers I seriously was thinking that this ship could have those bonuses and that size drone bay and still need turrets to compete with the other races tier 2 BC. Not to mention the fact that enemies can target drones and kill them.
So for all the people saying that heavy drones would make this ship overpowered, here's the proof that it won't. Most of the other races BC with max skills and the largest guns fit to gank will outdamage this thing easily. And the large drone bay is there do to the fact that this ship has no guns, so it needs to be able to reload just like turret and launchers.
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Bradstone
BRADNETT Process of Elimination
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:14:00 -
[425]
Edited by: Bradstone on 30/10/2006 23:14:29 Even i haven't read all the posts here, I must agree that the nighthawk have a 7th launcher slot to. I use a nighthawk for pretty much everything, and to think that all that skill training time for a nighthawk and all that isk "could" be all out damaged by a nOOb in a T1 BC... it would be devastating.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:22:00 -
[426]
Originally by: James Draekn [b]4 highs(no turrets) 5 mids 7 lows 500m3 drone bay
A drone battlecruiser should not have more low slots than the Brutix, Astarte and Deimos.... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:29:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Ath Amon here the graph...
hur vs har
doesn't seem that the har is that crap... just a consideration or 2...
i used "old" t2 ammos value and also i'm using vespas that are not the highest dps drones.
also i disagree that long range is useless if you can't dictate range... actually is quite the opposite...
i short range ship that can't dictate range risk to get "easilly" outranged, for ship with longer range there is not this risk...
you risk a bit for tracking but then webber can help a lot.
and the harb also should be able to dictate range against all BCs except the 2 minnies, while all BCs should be not be able to dictate range against most cruisers
The 425 II spends a full 1/3 of the time reloading?
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James Draekn
X.E.N.O.
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:44:00 -
[428]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: James Draekn [b]4 highs(no turrets) 5 mids 7 lows 500m3 drone bay
A drone battlecruiser should not have more low slots than the Brutix, Astarte and Deimos....
Ok how about....
4 highs (no turrets) 6 mids 6 lows
With the Myrmidon's powergrid you can't stack to much in the lows.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:45:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ath Amon here the graph...
hur vs har
doesn't seem that the har is that crap... just a consideration or 2...
i used "old" t2 ammos value and also i'm using vespas that are not the highest dps drones.
also i disagree that long range is useless if you can't dictate range... actually is quite the opposite...
i short range ship that can't dictate range risk to get "easilly" outranged, for ship with longer range there is not this risk...
you risk a bit for tracking but then webber can help a lot.
and the harb also should be able to dictate range against all BCs except the 2 minnies, while all BCs should be not be able to dictate range against most cruisers
The 425 II spends a full 1/3 of the time reloading?
amarr ships have cap, but minnies have reloading
the graph is made with NB's spreadsheet that is considered very accurate (more than quickfit that have some bugs)...
i can have messed it up but a bit playing with it but don't think so... anyway if someone want to try to reproduce it and post here...
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Valtirix
Gallente Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.31 01:35:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Ath Amon here the graph...
hur vs har
doesn't seem that the har is that crap... just a consideration or 2...
i used "old" t2 ammos value and also i'm using vespas that are not the highest dps drones.
also i disagree that long range is useless if you can't dictate range... actually is quite the opposite...
i short range ship that can't dictate range risk to get "easilly" outranged, for ship with longer range there is not this risk...
you risk a bit for tracking but then webber can help a lot.
and the harb also should be able to dictate range against all BCs except the 2 minnies, while all BCs should be not be able to dictate range against most cruisers
See, i think the Hurricane is fine! Besides, some people are complaining it's dps is too high compared with its tankability?
1: Have you not seen the hail nerfs for Kali? I'll be damned if anybody uses hail
2:Also, it doesn't get a tanking bonus, like the other bc's do. THe Myrmidon's rep bonus, and the drake's resistance bonus make up for it. And, it sort of made me think of a brutix when i thought of a dual MAR tank on a hurricane, but again, it doesn't get the rep bonus of a brutix....
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.31 02:41:00 -
[431]
Edited by: Kai Lae on 31/10/2006 02:42:27
Originally by: James Draekn
1.92* (2 [drone interfacing 5, 100% increase in drone damage] + .25 [heavy drone operation] + .1 [adv gal drone skill] + .5 [bc skill] ) = 5.472 damage mod
damage doesn't change = 24
rof doesnt change = rof 2
So we get = 5.472*24/2= 65.664 PER DRONE for DPS.
Times that by 10= 656.64 MAX DPS with full skills on 10 ogre 2's in space.
Your numbers are incorrect. Taken in order:
Ogre II Damagemod: 1.96 1.96 x drone interfacing 5: 4.8 4.8 x gallente drone spec 5: 5.28 5.28 x gallente BC 5: 7.92
7.92 x 24: 190.08 190.08/2: 95.04 95.04 x 5: 475.2 DPS
475.2 DPS is the max amount of drone damage you can do with any drone ship in the game except the moros. With a moros, it is 1108.8 DPS.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Kalhystia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.31 02:44:00 -
[432]
reserved 2 |
Kalhystia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.31 02:44:00 -
[433]
Edited by: Kalhystia on 31/10/2006 02:46:35 Hey peeps.
I would first like to say that I am going to buy and use a myrmidon a Kali: I just love this ship. I use gallente vessels quite often and even if I am not an expert at it I do pvp sometimes. However I donŠt claim to be a ship specialist, able to spam uber numbers and formulas with alien signs everywhere, I just want to bring my 2 cents. on the current issue with this nice battlecruiser .
Myrmidon battlecruiser role:
Well after reading this thread, I saw quite a lot of people wanting to boost this baby to bring it along with the other tier 2 bc DPS; if, that is a good idea in theory, I would like to point out that Gallente already have a damage boat, the Brutix. Giving the Myrmidon a medium hybrid bonus would just make it subpar to the Brutix as such a bonus wouldnŠt be that useful, as the Myrmidon only has 5 turret slots and little powergrid to fit them. Brutix is supposed to be the gank baby of our arsenal, not Myrmidon .
Even if you can fit it like a blasterboat, I believe it is better at range, acting like a support ship: fit dampeners/tracking disruptors, some NOS and small sized guns and you get a very valuable ship in fleets, able to mount a gang warfare module, while being able to get rid of pesty frigates and interceptors. Of course, it has a moderate DPS, but as said before, the point of this ship is NOT pure DPS for gankage.
Personally, I find that the Myrmidon repair bonus is fine; with a plate, this ship can reach 13k armor hitpoints with a good tank, turning it into a nice, maybe too nice tanking platform. Even without a plate, the ship isnŠt that fast or agile, and trying to add a microwarp drive will just give you poor results, as your base signature radius stays almost as big as a BS to start with.
Of course, it is a droneboat, so the damage bonus to drone is greatly welcomed, even if it could be modified a little. (see below). |
Kalhystia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.31 02:45:00 -
[434]
reserved 3. |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.31 03:32:00 -
[435]
No. Medium Drones are lame, 5 Heavies w. Damage bonus is needed to bring it inline with other BCs.
Just give it 250m3 and get it over with. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:05:00 -
[436]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 31/10/2006 05:10:43
Originally by: Kalhystia Last words. ThatŠs it, I just brought my little opinion about this ship; I am not perfect, I am not a good PvPer but I still have tested the ship, so I still have little knowledge of what I am talking about. I stay open-minded enough to know that my post isnŠt flawless, and I welcome people to correct me, as long as it stays flame-proof. Thanks for the few chosen ones who were able to reach the end of that post without falling asleep .
liked your analysis, and mostly agree for the ship role and dps...
i also looked a bit at its damage graph and seem a bit low even to me...
but also i myst say that i will not like that much the idea to boost drone dmg to 15% (even if only on medium and light)
what "scares" me of this ship is its decent tank, number of midslots and decent dps for its nosage power.
(i didn't tried fittings so i don't know eventual pg/cpu problems)
but with these stats i fear that, using damps, it will force most opponents to fight in its nos range and this can make it an extremely powerfull ship even in its actual condition...
so, for my taste the only way i will improve its dps for now it will be maybe with 6 turrets instead of 5... a bit more balance but more important the additional dps comes at cost of nosage power.
i'm not saying that the ship is overpowered or is fine as is it, just that in my opinion with its "peculiar" design probably it will need a bit of time before people will get used to it and "learn" to put the best out of it... and a fast boost can risk to overpower it.
adding: instead for me it will be fine to restrict the drone bonus to mid and light drones and to improve the drone bay...
10% to mid and light drones only and 150m3 (if not 200) drone bay seem ok to me
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.10.31 06:55:00 -
[437]
Originally by: keepiru
Just give it 250m3 and get it over with.
yeah and problem solved.
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.31 07:30:00 -
[438]
Edited by: keepiru on 31/10/2006 07:31:25 Allright, I got bored of looking @ other people's graphs, so I made my own - btw, NaughtyBoy and Chribba are made of pure 24-karat win.
Anyway, I wanted to look at DPS @ Range and Cumulative Damage/Time @ fixed range - both with the ships as they are right now, and with the only realistically possible boosts for the 2 ships that are perceived as "weak", which is to say: 8th turret for Harbinger and 250m3 drone bay for Myrmidon.
Before we start, a few notes about the highslot/drone setups of the ships here:
The Hurricane uses a T2 Heavy Assault in the 8th high. This is actually very unlikely to happen, as even with the dps of HAML IIs most people will probably fit a nos, purely because the ammo draw of 7 ACs creates noticeable logistical problems already, without the silly m3/minute ammo chew rate of HAML IIs - however, its technically possible... easyer than fitting a nos in fact. On the other hand, drone damage is not modelled 100% accurately as its using 5 lights instead of 4 lights and 1 med. The Drake doesn't have any weapon in its 8th high as its not, as far as I know, realistically possible to fit anything in there along with 7 HAML IIs and the mods needed to get into HAM range and stay there. Not if you want to fit 2 BCU IIs anyway. If this is wrong, and you find a gun that's worth the bother of the ammo you have to take with you, please let me know.
Now, on with the graphs!
Current Situation: Damage @ Range Cumulative Damage @ 2500m Cumulative Damage @ 5000m
Realistic Boosts: Damage @ Range Cumulative Damage @ 2500m Cumulative Damage @ 5000m
I think they speak for themselves tbh ^_^ ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.10.31 08:25:00 -
[439]
Here's a crazy idea. If the issue is the Mrym loosing drones then just give the supposed king of BC droneage the ability to just have so many drones that the pilot won't know what to do with them. But here's the trick so that its only Med drones that get this ability and not let it have heavies.
"10% bonus hitpoints and damage to med drones per level." and "1 m3 less volume of Med drones per level."
At level five you can hold the same number of light drones as Med drones (50!) but still falls under the "5 out at one time rule" to prevent it getting ridiculous. If they want to carry 50 t2 med drones they're welcome to carry them but even with the 5 out there if they can't kill it before it dies then it'll loose too much to ever be justified. I think this would aptly throw in enough risk/reward to carrying a full 50 t2 drones if they did.
And let it have the same number of high slots but one less turret. ------------------
CEO of TKI
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.10.31 09:11:00 -
[440]
Originally by: keepiru
Realistic Boosts: Damage @ Range Cumulative Damage @ 2500m Cumulative Damage @ 5000m
I think they speak for themselves tbh ^_^
your proposed realistic boost would give harbinger better dps at any! range over hurricane even with harb using 2nd tier guns while hurr uses 1st tier guns
myrmidon would only do a little less dps at a small spot around the 5km mark, everwhere else it would do equal/superior damage while having a much better tank
your first graph with the current stats looks a lot more balanced to me
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.31 09:12:00 -
[441]
That solves nothing.
With 5 heavy drones the Myrmidon is only just level with the other tier-2 BCs as far as damage goes.
With mediums? Its a waste of database entries, they might as well not put it live on TQ. It would be the Ares of Battlecruisers ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Logan Xerxes
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:14:00 -
[442]
Originally by: keepiru Good stuff
Thank you for the helpful graphs that illustrate that the Drake is not going to kill everything that comes within 15km.
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." -Sun Tzu |
Kalhystia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:07:00 -
[443]
Originally by: keepiru No. Medium Drones are lame, 5 Heavies w. Damage bonus is needed to bring it inline with other BCs.
Just give it 250m3 and get it over with.
Well, donŠt get me wrong, if the Myrmidon gets 250m3 drone bay I wonŠt complain; I perfectly agree that it should be able to wield heavy drones.
But, just by doing that, you allow a BC to weild same drone power than a dominix; now I donŠt even say the DPS would be overpowered or anything, but I think it is a bit unreasonnable to ask for such a large dronebay. Mediums arenŠt that bad, the are far faster to reach distant targets, track lighter ships but have less HP yes.
Now, if you successfully convince Tuxford to increase the Myrmidon dronebay to wield 2 waves of 5 heavies drones, fine, I will light a candle for you in the lost and dusty pantheon of the Gallente heroes . |
ClogMan
Caldari Caldari Anvil
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:10:00 -
[444]
Can any tell me a bit about the Drakes damageoutput with HAL's and diff. ammo types?
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:17:00 -
[445]
Originally by: keepiru
Anyway, once SISI is actually remotely stable I'm sure with enough prodding tux can be convinced to let us try the Harbi with the proper 8 turrets & the fittings for it.
You don't think that 7/4/7 would be better, as it would be more "amarr like" and would provide more fitting flexibility?
Originally by: keepiru No. Medium Drones are lame, 5 Heavies w. Damage bonus is needed to bring it inline with other BCs.
Just give it 250m3 and get it over with.
Might be a bit too much, 175m3 would give it the same drone space as a typhoon and a bit of flexibility. In any case the issue of preventing the DPS from the guns from adding up too much damage to this ship still has to be dealt with, it would seem that the PG on the ship would have to be decreased I would think. Also, 8 high slots is about 2 too many, but another lowslot would come in handy.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:18:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Kalhystia
Well, donŠt get me wrong, if the Myrmidon gets 250m3 drone bay I wonŠt complain; I perfectly agree that it should be able to wield heavy drones.
But, just by doing that, you allow a BC to weild same drone power than a dominix; now I donŠt even say the DPS would be overpowered or anything, but I think it is a bit unreasonnable to ask for such a large dronebay.
Not at all. As has been noted before, drones are only part of the equation of Dominix DPS, a huge part comes from guns. We're comparing:
5 x medium guns with no damage bonus
vs
6 x large guns with +5% per level damage bonus
That's a huge difference, and one one that pushes Dominix damage to "battleship level" while keeping the Myrm at "battlecruiser level".
Medium drones just flat-out do not give enough DPS for a battlecruiser's primary weapon system, unless you give them enough damage bonus to make them near-equal to heavy drones -- which *would* be unbalanced.
Various calculations have shown that the Myrmidon DPS would be just barely adaquate vs the other tier2's even with 5 heavy drones. There is no balance problem there.
The only balance problem with drone boats in general has been the broken state of ECM. With that more of less fixed in Kali, drone boats need to do adaquate DPS in order to compete, they can't do the nosfe+drones+ECM trick anymore.
Personally I'd be willing to lose one turret slot, or even two, if someone thought that would be needed to compensate (I don't, personally, but...). But the Myrmidon needs 5 heavy drones + spares (or alternatively more than 5 drones to control, but I don't see that happening).
It would be interesting to get some dev feedback at some point. The general consensus here seems to be that the Myrmidon is clearly lacking, the other bcs are more or less in the right ballpark (but may also need some tweaking).
I think the simplest fix is just to increase the drone bay to the 200m3 ballpark, and maybe remove one turret if needs be. Then test some more.
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Alek Row
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:18:00 -
[447]
Originally by: keepiru
You're damned right it would, the Harbinger: has a MUCH harder time fitting guns is slower has a larger signature radius has about 60% of the tracking has no choice in damage type has a 14cap/sec draw with HP II (cannot be fit with MWD Injector and Rep) or 11cap/sec with focused pulse - this is in theory counterbalanced by a whole 0.694* better cap recharge - on top of the repper and mwd
ONLY when comparing Pulses and ACs, there is Artillery and Beams too, and this 2 weapon systems have exactly the same cap requirements. And? That's not new when comparing Amarr and Minmatar ships. Harbinger still have a lower sig than the Drake. And the Harbinger is the second fastest bc. Drake and Myrmidon are slower than the Harbinger. For some reason the Harbinger have a better drone bay. Use the different damage types. Cap problems. Yep you do. You don't have reloads too (only thing I can say for that one, it's a lame thing to say, I know, but cap problems are not a new thing for Amarr).
No ship should be an IWIN button, and your second graph shows the Harbinger as an IWIN button against all other Battlecruisers. Your 1st graph is WAY MORE balanced than the second one imo. I would understand a tanking bonus or a 7th low slot on the Harbinger, but better DPS than all other BCs at any range??? That's not balanced at all imo. ----- --- -- - - Hadean Drive Yards |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.31 14:04:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Alek Row
No ship should be an IWIN button, and your second graph shows the Harbinger as an IWIN button against all other Battlecruisers. Your 1st graph is WAY MORE balanced than the second one imo. I would understand a tanking bonus or a 7th low slot on the Harbinger, but better DPS than all other BCs at any range??? That's not balanced at all imo.
it would have better RAW-dps then the others. and compared to a drone, ac or missile boat it should have the best raw dps by far. simply because this raw dps will turn into a much lower number once you factor in resists and because lasers in contrast to drones, projectiles and missiles do use cap. a lot of it actually. seeing how kali will bring a hp boost for ships/plates/extenders fights will last longer there and cap management will become much more important. being able to use a capless weapon system is not just a slight advantage. its a rather big one. i for one would gladly trade my no-ammo consumption in for a zero-cap-using laser. no ammo use is really more a pve advantage anyway.
sure with the longer fights with kali you may have to reload a few times to get through a harbingers hitpoints. on the other side you have the harbinger using his cap for ammo. cap booster charges are slightly larger than projectile ammo and thereby limit the number of times a laser using ship can reload by a lot.
also note that once you do start to use t2 crystals our ammo does get used up. only we dont get the opportunity to bring just a few hundred rounds per gun. each crystal equals 1000 pieces of ammo. if we want to bring t2 ammo for 7 guns for both short and long range we need to buy 14000 rounds worth. and thats not including the possibility that they could run out while your at it.
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.31 14:49:00 -
[449]
Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 31/10/2006 07:31:25 Allright, I got bored of looking @ other people's graphs, so I made my own - btw, NaughtyBoy and Chribba are made of pure 24-karat win.
Anyway, I wanted to look at DPS @ Range and Cumulative Damage/Time @ fixed range - both with the ships as they are right now, and with the only realistically possible boosts for the 2 ships that are perceived as "weak", which is to say: 8th turret for Harbinger and 250m3 drone bay for Myrmidon.
Before we start, a few notes about the highslot/drone setups of the ships here:
The Hurricane uses a T2 Heavy Assault in the 8th high. This is actually very unlikely to happen, as even with the dps of HAML IIs most people will probably fit a nos, purely because the ammo draw of 7 ACs creates noticeable logistical problems already, without the silly m3/minute ammo chew rate of HAML IIs - however, its technically possible... easyer than fitting a nos in fact. On the other hand, drone damage is not modelled 100% accurately as its using 5 lights instead of 4 lights and 1 med. The Drake doesn't have any weapon in its 8th high as its not, as far as I know, realistically possible to fit anything in there along with 7 HAML IIs and the mods needed to get into HAM range and stay there. Not if you want to fit 2 BCU IIs anyway. If this is wrong, and you find a gun that's worth the bother of the ammo you have to take with you, please let me know.
Now, on with the graphs!
Current Situation: Damage @ Range Cumulative Damage @ 2500m Cumulative Damage @ 5000m
Realistic Boosts: Damage @ Range Cumulative Damage @ 2500m Cumulative Damage @ 5000m
I think they speak for themselves tbh ^_^
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Tiuwaz your proposed realistic boost would give harbinger better dps at any! range over hurricane even with harb using 2nd tier guns while hurr uses 1st tier guns
You're damned right it would, the Harbinger:
has a MUCH harder time fitting guns is slower has a larger signature radius has about 60% of the tracking has no choice in damage type has a 14cap/sec draw with HP II (cannot be fit with MWD Injector and Rep) or 11cap/sec with focused pulse - this is in theory counterbalanced by a whole 0.694* better cap recharge - on top of the repper and mwd
Just for comparison, a T2 Med Rep draws 17.7 cap/sec.
QFT. The Harbinger needs an 8th turret slot and the grid to fit it. Otherwise, why would I ever chooose it over the Hurricane? There are a lot of negatives to being Amarr, how about some positives to balance it out?
I don't think its too much to ask.
Nyxus
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö
Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them.
Gee, wonder why..
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Alek Row
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:15:00 -
[450]
Edited by: Alek Row on 31/10/2006 15:15:39
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Stuff...
Factoring resists, that ac ammo and cap will not be enough for that battle, that drones can be shoot at, that everybody have the same amount of skillpoints and that everybody will fit their ship in the exact same way are predictions. Battles can happen with millions of possibilites and different endings, depending of fittings, specializations, ammo type, tank type, drone types, distance to the battle, and so on... And that's what can give you the edge in a battle.
And because of all that, I still think that no ship should have a better RAW-Dps than all others at ALL Ranges.
And with all due respect to Udyr or Nyxus, but asking for a IWIN BC against all other BCs because "there are a lot of negatives to being Amarr", it surelly does not seem a good way to balance the Race as a whole. I still think that Harbinger should have a better tank, but for what I see on the graphs posted, DPS seems already balanced.
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