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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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Mephysto
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:23:00 -
[1]
Ok, so I know its not working on Singularity yet, but discuss it here please.
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starship enginer
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:30:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Mephysto Ok, so I know its not working on Singularity yet, but discuss it here please.
want to give us some detailed info first, or what do we discuss? when it will be out?
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Cornhullio
Amarr Amesha Spentaz
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:41:00 -
[3]
Are we going to get to play with this before it goes live??
i am sat waiting and ready to play When confronted with a problem - i find it more easily solved by asking the question - "How would the Lone Ranger deal with this?" |
Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:41:00 -
[4]
Problem with invention:
1. People in 0.0 don't need it, they already have the BPOs 2. People in empire space would need it but they can't use it because you need to offer yourself for ganking by those selfrighteous nbsi - snobs to get some of the items 3. So it won't solve the problem with 400 million isk for a HAC and stuff
I think the way it is implemented now one can call it a barrel burst. It solves not a single problem and it is not usable for those who would need it.
My solution:
Make all items for it available in empire space, maybe the datacores (or whatever it is that comes from 0.0) with limited runs or so. But please do anything to stop that extreme advantages old players with tech 2 bpos have over the rest of us and bring the tech 2 ship and item prices back to a reasonable level.
Make invention something for everyone, not only for a small elite that already has enough of everything. Thanks.
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Zakgram
Apocalyptic Raiders Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:42:00 -
[5]
I wonder if we'll be able to create the missing modules out of it. E.g. SPR II - since there aren't any SPR II bpo's but invention should allow the T1 bpc one to convert to a T2 one.
If not will there be big health warning on bpos that can't be turned into t2 ones? It seems a shame to spend the isk on a bpo, spend the 2-3 weeks finding a lab slot to research & copy, then to discover it's useless for the purposes?
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Hansoloo
Supero Omnia
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:56:00 -
[6]
I love to be able to make cargo exp 2's with it...
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Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hansoloo I love to be able to make cargo exp 2's with it...
i doubt that it will be possible to invent T2 stuff that is not in the game yet. -- This game is still in beta stage |
Hansoloo
Supero Omnia
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:06:00 -
[8]
maybe the reason there not in the game yet was becouse of this :)
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Jameroz
Independent Frontiers Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:11:00 -
[9]
Are mobile labs getting slots? What happens when I try to invent 10 run bpc... do I get 10 run t2 bpc, increased odds to get one or just use one run from the t1 bpc? What skills are required for invention skill? Where do we get the decrypters? What's the formula that ME and PE transfer?
So many questions, so little answers __________
Jameroz Independent Frontiers is recruiting |
Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Paigan on 26/10/2006 11:13:53
Originally by: Hansoloo maybe the reason there not in the game yet was becouse of this :)
i think the reason they're not in the game yet is a) most of them couldn't really have the T2 fitting drawbacks that other modules have
b) that for example all the owners of local hull expander will turn into mass-whining and mass-petitioning kiddies when their 40mil items massively drop in price over night by getting almost unneeded.
Otherwise, they would already have introduced those modules in the game long time ago, i think. -- This game is still in beta stage |
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Hansoloo
Supero Omnia
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Paigan Edited by: Paigan on 26/10/2006 11:13:53
Originally by: Hansoloo maybe the reason there not in the game yet was becouse of this :)
i think the reason they're not in the game yet is a) most of them couldn't really have the T2 fitting drawbacks that other modules have
b) that for example all the owners of local hull expander will turn into mass-whining and mass-petitioning kiddies when their 40mil items massively drop in price over night by getting almost unneeded.
Otherwise, they would already have introduced those modules in the game long time ago, i think.
we can give them whining kiddies, a fast kick in the ....
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solidshot
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:25:00 -
[12]
I want to know how CCP thinks we will be able to create cloak bpc's using invention when the t1 bpo's we need to use the invention process are mainly owned by a cartel that will surely not sell any bpc's on the market to the general public thus making it impossible to create t2 cloaks using invention?
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Hansoloo
Supero Omnia
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:26:00 -
[13]
same for some of the more rare t1 items in the game....
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Caldo
Band Of Frogs
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jameroz Are mobile labs getting slots? What happens when I try to invent 10 run bpc... do I get 10 run t2 bpc, increased odds to get one or just use one run from the t1 bpc? What skills are required for invention skill? Where do we get the decrypters? What's the formula that ME and PE transfer?
So many questions, so little answers
1 ) would hope so
2 ) I would guess from this that the decryptor is the prime modifier for the potential increase in runs from the T1 BPC..
'You also have the option of adding a so-called Decryptor to the job. Decryptors modify the job, for instance they can increase the chance of success or increase the number of runs you get.' - Clover
3) hmm at a guess..
4) 'On a side note, the same profession sites can also be harvested to get Datacores, Decryptors, skills and other relevant stuff.' Clover
5) See answer 3.
All the info i can squeeze from the devblogs i'm afraid.
Oh and from the same blog Hansoloo
Everything in the game that has a tech II equivalent can be invented. Modules, rigs and most ships can thus be invented.
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Lunanie
Final-Vendetta
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Posted - 2006.10.26 11:56:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lunanie on 26/10/2006 11:57:06
Originally by: Mephysto Ok, so I know its not working on Singularity yet, but discuss it here please.
As long as it will drop the insane prices of some T2 items (especially hac's, covert op's cloak, large guns, etc) i love it
Some T2 builders just become too richt too easy because they can sell cerb's and vaga's for +250 mil
Nobody should complain if the builders of those great items just make 50%-100% profit.
And can you post some details about how this new invention thing works plz ? :)
edit: typo
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Queen Hades Problem with invention:
1. People in 0.0 don't need it, they already have the BPOs 2. People in empire space would need it but they can't use it because you need to offer yourself for ganking by those selfrighteous nbsi - snobs to get some of the items 3. So it won't solve the problem with 400 million isk for a HAC and stuff
I think the way it is implemented now one can call it a barrel burst. It solves not a single problem and it is not usable for those who would need it.
My solution:
Make all items for it available in empire space, maybe the datacores (or whatever it is that comes from 0.0) with limited runs or so. But please do anything to stop that extreme advantages old players with tech 2 bpos have over the rest of us and bring the tech 2 ship and item prices back to a reasonable level.
Make invention something for everyone, not only for a small elite that already has enough of everything. Thanks.
Agreeing with this, putting them in 0.0 only will really solve nothing.
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Caldo
Band Of Frogs
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:03:00 -
[17]
Aaand.. For those who havent read Clover's Blog (and I'm Sure you all have )
Linkage |
EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: solidshot
I want to know how CCP thinks we will be able to create cloak bpc's using invention when the t1 bpo's we need to use the invention process are mainly owned by a cartel that will surely not sell any bpc's on the market to the general public thus making it impossible to create t2 cloaks using invention?
IRRC, form the invention blog (and I could be wrong, I'd need to reread it), you don't need the BPO/BPC, you need the item.
So you take a cloak, plus mods and crap and give it to your agent and he spends some time with it and eventually hands you a BPCif you are lucky.
Nate.
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Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hansoloo
Originally by: Paigan Edited by: Paigan on 26/10/2006 11:13:53
Originally by: Hansoloo maybe the reason there not in the game yet was becouse of this :)
i think the reason they're not in the game yet is a) most of them couldn't really have the T2 fitting drawbacks that other modules have
b) that for example all the owners of local hull expander will turn into mass-whining and mass-petitioning kiddies when their 40mil items massively drop in price over night by getting almost unneeded.
Otherwise, they would already have introduced those modules in the game long time ago, i think.
we can give them whining kiddies a fast kick in the ....
point for you :-) -- This game is still in beta stage |
Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:21:00 -
[20]
hey hey
need alot more info about invention TBH.
Chance to succede : will it be possible to skill and get items with enough meta quality to get 100% success ? if success rates are low then the isk sink will be to high and would become an unused feature.
BPC's based on the origionals ?? : if i had a 10 run Covetor BPC and all the req items will the BPC TII ge ALOT lower ie pop out at 1 run ? or will it be more productivce to have 10x 1runs and go for 1 run TI BPC's / this will be affected by success rates etc; ie. 10 attempts Vs 1
Data Core availability : I noticed that the rifter BPC needed Minmatar Starship Data cores and Mechanical engineering ? obviously some datacores will be region specific and the generic stuff universe wide. I havent heard anything about the availability of datacores appart rom vagueness re R&D agents and Vagueness Re wrecks. Slavaging isnt active yet either so havent had the opportunity to see what harvests.
Would like some more Dev info re Mechanics of the whole invention system.
Many thanks
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solidshot
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: EvilNate
Originally by: solidshot
I want to know how CCP thinks we will be able to create cloak bpc's using invention when the t1 bpo's we need to use the invention process are mainly owned by a cartel that will surely not sell any bpc's on the market to the general public thus making it impossible to create t2 cloaks using invention?
IRRC, form the invention blog (and I could be wrong, I'd need to reread it), you don't need the BPO/BPC, you need the item.
So you take a cloak, plus mods and crap and give it to your agent and he spends some time with it and eventually hands you a BPCif you are lucky.
Nate.
I may be wrong but i was under the impresion you need a bpc of the t1 version to enter into the labs with the chance of getting a t2 version back? which if true means theres bugger all chance of getting a t2 bpc for thing like cloaks and similar?
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Caldo
Band Of Frogs
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: EvilNate
Originally by: solidshot
I want to know how CCP thinks we will be able to create cloak bpc's using invention when the t1 bpo's we need to use the invention process are mainly owned by a cartel that will surely not sell any bpc's on the market to the general public thus making it impossible to create t2 cloaks using invention?
IRRC, form the invention blog (and I could be wrong, I'd need to reread it), you don't need the BPO/BPC, you need the item.
So you take a cloak, plus mods and crap and give it to your agent and he spends some time with it and eventually hands you a BPCif you are lucky.
Nate.
Yep Nate,
thats the way i read it too, but it could be read both ways..
I have a bad feeling it might mean start with either the BPC or the BPC AND a T1 item to increase said chance of success.
originally Clover-
1. You start with a Tech I BPC
2. You have the option of adding a Tech I item (of the correct type) to the job (adding a Tech II item does nothing). The better the metal-level of the item, the greater the chance of success is when using it.
Clarification and addition of information seems to be the general thrust of this thread Mephysto me ole mucker
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EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:48:00 -
[23]
Hrrrmmm, that sucks. So Cov-ops prices are gonna stay where they are basically.
Very sucky.
IMHO, T2 items should have information bar on them, what they need for invention. The base and nessassry item should be the T1 version + datacores, then you should have the option of adding in a BPC to increase success and random other stuff.
Basically reverse the BPC and Item roles, but give us information by examining the T2 item we want to create.
Nate.
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Saldun Zexu
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:55:00 -
[24]
mining barge bpo's/bpc's don't have invention tab. meaning can't invent covetor to hulk?
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Qelen Seastrider
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:03:00 -
[25]
As a relatively new player, I have a comment about how badly the entire blueprint system is snafued. I could live with a tiny chance of getting hold of a tech 2 bpo. I could live with having to travel all over the known universe to get bp's and materials. What drives ME into a frenzy is that you can't get blueprints for TECH 1 items. It's insane! The whole notion of not being able to get bp's for every tech 1 item in the game is totally insane. The only thing I can suppose is that the npc-only items are there to siphon ISK's out of general circulation. I'm sure someone in here will reply that all you need to do is look around for tech 1 bpo's and you will eventually find the whole set. This is total bs. I have been to every region in the game and about half of the tech 1 items have no bp's at all.
Getting into tech 2 bpo and item prices is pretty much a waste of time. The whole market is in the hip pockets of those who have been around longest. The rest of us can just ignore the whole tech 2 market, because none of us 'newb's' will ever get a shot at a bpo. Or a bpc, which makes sense. Why would someone with a choke-hold on a market give away part of his profits?
In any case, if the current situation is allowed to continue, you be certain that you will have an entire generation of high resentment players out there. I can see that it's possible to have people quitting the game, simply because they're convinced that they can never get ahead.
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EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Qelen Seastrider stuff about t1 bpos
Aye, I have to agree here. All T1 BPO's should be seeded on the market. This along should bring the prices down on cloaks.
Nate.
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Stein Voorhees
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:15:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Stein Voorhees on 26/10/2006 13:15:24
Originally by: Queen Hades Problem with invention:
1. People in 0.0 don't need it, they already have the BPOs 2. People in empire space would need it but they can't use it because you need to offer yourself for ganking by those selfrighteous nbsi - snobs to get some of the items 3. So it won't solve the problem with 400 million isk for a HAC and stuff
I think the way it is implemented now one can call it a barrel burst. It solves not a single problem and it is not usable for those who would need it.
My solution:
Make all items for it available in empire space, maybe the datacores (or whatever it is that comes from 0.0) with limited runs or so. But please do anything to stop that extreme advantages old players with tech 2 bpos have over the rest of us and bring the tech 2 ship and item prices back to a reasonable level.
Make invention something for everyone, not only for a small elite that already has enough of everything. Thanks.
This may not solve all the problems listed above (a good and valid list in my opinion) but how about if the 0.0 content was also located in NPC controlled regions like Syndicate or Great Wildlands (can't remember the others - sorry )? This way, you encourage people to go into 0.0 but also don't put the resources solely within the clutches of those who already have it good.
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Caldo
Band Of Frogs
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: EvilNate
Originally by: Qelen Seastrider stuff about t1 bpos
Aye, I have to agree here. All T1 BPO's should be seeded on the market.
Nate.
Now THAT sounds like a plan.
Cal |
Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:53:00 -
[29]
First of all: Before posting in this thread read the Dev Blog
Originally by: Queen Hades Problem with invention:
1. People in 0.0 don't need it, they already have the BPOs 2. People in empire space would need it but they can't use it because you need to offer yourself for ganking by those selfrighteous nbsi - snobs to get some of the items 3. So it won't solve the problem with 400 million isk for a HAC and stuff
I think the way it is implemented now one can call it a barrel burst. It solves not a single problem and it is not usable for those who would need it.
My solution:
Make all items for it available in empire space, maybe the datacores (or whatever it is that comes from 0.0) with limited runs or so. But please do anything to stop that extreme advantages old players with tech 2 bpos have over the rest of us and bring the tech 2 ship and item prices back to a reasonable level.
Make invention something for everyone, not only for a small elite that already has enough of everything. Thanks.
From what I see from the dev blog:
1) You need a T1 BPC (available in empire) 2) You may want to put a t1 item into the process (available in empire) 3) You need Data cores (available from r&d agents, they are in empire, right?) 4) You need a Data interface (ok this one could only be available in the new COSMOS regions in 0.0), but you only need one for infinite jobs. 5) You may want to put a decryptor in (which could only be available in 0.0)
So to conclude: There is only one mandatory item which is maybe only available in 0.0. Nobody knows up to now. On the other hand, if you get hands on one of those data interfaces, you can start your inventor career without having to go to 0.0 again.
So please, after getting a data interface, all mandatory items are available in empire space.
Also many other of your points are wrong:
ad 1) There are many people in 0.0, and many of those donŠt have every t2 bpo they need ad 2) Have you ever heard of NAGA? ad 3) Maybe, but your arguments donŠt support that conclusion
And again, read the dev blog, or delight me with the information source you have.
regards, Kanuo
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EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 14:23:00 -
[30]
Personally, I think getting a data interface from 0.0 could be pretty cool, seeing as it's infinite runs, it makes sense to put in a bit of effort to get it.
You can setup a contract for it for instance. You pay X amount of ISk for someone to go and get it, via anymeans, so you don't actualy have to get it yourself.
Nate.
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