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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: hitech redneck on 26/10/2006 13:10:17 sorry if there is a post about this. I sure hope ccp increased the hp or shield on fighters and drones to match the increase of the ships. With the cost of fighters they pop pretty easy now. Just think now that it will take longer to kill ships they become a very high risk investment.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:13:00 -
[2]
uhhh... god i hate doing this... but...
/Signed --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:39:00 -
[3]
Fighters ? Sure..
Drones ? No F-ing way !!!
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Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Black Scorpio Fighters ? Sure..
Drones ? No F-ing way !!!
Your reasoning for this statement is..? Drones die fast enough as is, all drones need to have a HP increase otherwise they will not be able to sustain long fights against pilots with a clue.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.26 17:15:00 -
[5]
i got to get on for 5 min and no they did not change fighters at all nor the carrier bonuses...
the capital remotes still take lots of cap i think, didnt get to look 100%
with the capital hp boost, there is no way you can aid other capital ships, your cap will die in a min or 2, and you do not have any cap to be running your own tank even
also you would think that maybe the corp hanger and array be increased so maybe we could fit a bs? but i guess they do not wish for that
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 19:28:00 -
[6]
I didnt think it was needed to tell CCP that they have to boost drones and fighters to. But I guess it is now afterall.
so signed,
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 19:45:00 -
[7]
I says aye! ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.26 19:46:00 -
[8]
My reply copied from my other thread..
I don't see any reason why drone hitpoints should not also be increased along with all the other ships. Otherwise, it's a nerf to drone ships.
Battles will last longer meaning that there is much more time to shoot all the drones down. This problem is especially apparent in the Myrmidon which has a small drone bay to begin with. Please Tux, consider this idea ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.26 19:54:00 -
[9]
If there is an HP boost there will be a problem with people just scooping drones and redeploying them with instantly recharged shields.
Not that easy when they are 50 km away from your ship, of cource, but you can do that instantly at close range. So, if they would boost the drone HPs they would also need to remove the insta-shield-recharge of the dronebay to keep it balanced.
It would be really nice, though, if the dronebay could function as real maintance bay where drones recharge shield and get their armor and structure repaired *slowly*.
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Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.26 19:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aramendel If there is an HP boost there will be a problem with people just scooping drones and redeploying them with instantly recharged shields.
Not that easy when they are 50 km away from your ship, of cource, but you can do that instantly at close range. So, if they would boost the drone HPs they would also need to remove the insta-shield-recharge of the dronebay to keep it balanced.
It would be really nice, though, if the dronebay could function as real maintance bay where drones recharge shield and get their armor and structure repaired *slowly*.
Have you flown drone ships before? Even at very close range this isn't easy to do. Drones die extremely easy. Just web em and they pop. Not only that, the shields of a drone are only a fraction of its total hitpoints. It's not like you completely repair a drone when it is returned. ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime |
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Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.26 19:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Aramendel It would be really nice, though, if the dronebay could function as real maintance bay where drones recharge shield and get their armor and structure repaired *slowly*.
would be lovely
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:02:00 -
[12]
Fighters really need a hit point boost, but drones don't. Well, drones don't as long as there's adequate back up drones on the ships that rely on them. Which there aren't on the Myrmidon. - What am I listening to? |
D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:04:00 -
[13]
/signed. fighters need a boost in hp. maybe for drones just change the drone durability skill to 10% or 20% a level ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
Klassac
Gallente Refuge of the Damned
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:06:00 -
[14]
/ signed
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5n4keyes
Caldari Sacred Templars DeStInY.
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:13:00 -
[15]
I personally would like to see fighter specific skills, Eg, Fighter sharpshooting, Fighter Navigation, Fighter Durability.
Yep boost the sheilds and armor, but shouldnt you also boost the power of them slightly, with more hp it means people are going to have longer to warp away from fighters, get to gates, and possibly manage to pop the fighters themselves, thus making them pretty worthless to use, which takes away the primary use for a carrier!
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Aramendel on 26/10/2006 20:38:14
Originally by: Centurin Have you flown drone ships before? Even at very close range this isn't easy to do. Drones die extremely easy. Just web em and they pop. Not only that, the shields of a drone are only a fraction of its total hitpoints. It's not like you completely repair a drone when it is returned.
Yes?
The "Just web em and they pop." depends on the weapons. Not every ship uses blasters.
And, anyway, if it has no real effect it would not change/hurt if it gets removed, wouldn't it?
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Centurin
Originally by: Aramendel If there is an HP boost there will be a problem with people just scooping drones and redeploying them with instantly recharged shields.
Not that easy when they are 50 km away from your ship, of cource, but you can do that instantly at close range. So, if they would boost the drone HPs they would also need to remove the insta-shield-recharge of the dronebay to keep it balanced.
It would be really nice, though, if the dronebay could function as real maintance bay where drones recharge shield and get their armor and structure repaired *slowly*.
Have you flown drone ships before? Even at very close range this isn't easy to do. Drones die extremely easy. Just web em and they pop. Not only that, the shields of a drone are only a fraction of its total hitpoints. It's not like you completely repair a drone when it is returned.
Point is, with the HP increase it would make that technique better.
Also, its not "drone specialised" ships that are most effected, its the ships that rely on drones to suppliment there damage but without much space for spares such as Geddon and Typhoon that would run out of drones first. Ships like Domi can fit spares, so less affected. If anything it means you'll have to use smaller sized drones so you don't run out in a prolonged battle. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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El'jonson
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:45:00 -
[18]
As someone who uses drones in combat alot I have to agree they need alot more hp, or they could just reduce the sig radius on drones and fighters alot making weapons do alot less damage to them. This would probably be alot more realistic than having massive amounts of hp.
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Quilan Ziller
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:03:00 -
[19]
/signed This is definitely a needed change. Otherwise, killing the drone ship's drones (which is quick!) will negate the effect of the ships' own HP increase.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:13:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 26/10/2006 21:14:09
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 26/10/2006 20:38:14
Originally by: Centurin Have you flown drone ships before? Even at very close range this isn't easy to do. Drones die extremely easy. Just web em and they pop. Not only that, the shields of a drone are only a fraction of its total hitpoints. It's not like you completely repair a drone when it is returned.
Yes?
The "Just web em and they pop." depends on the weapons. Not every ship uses blasters.
Why does everyone assume blaster's have good tracking? Can a 'ranis with lights and tracking bonus? Of course it can. Can a brutix or mega even when webbed? You ******* try it. Brutix has trouble hitting AF's with electron's when webbed ffs
If everything else gets a HP increase, and capships get 5 times(!) HP increase. Then drones should(proberbly will) aswell.
Edit: Errors
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Atrial Quartz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:15:00 -
[21]
i use drones as a secondary weapon. if it's your primary meens of attack though this nerfs you alot. after all no one else ccan have their "turrets" killed individualy
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Why does everyone assume blaster's have good tracking?
Because they have. Compared to the other shortrange turrets.
The other turrets have higher range, of cource, but considering drones (the damage dealing ones at least) orbit you at 1k that higher range is meaningless in terms of drone popping ability.
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Galea Scorpii
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: Black Scorpio Fighters ? Sure..
Drones ? No F-ing way !!!
Your reasoning for this statement is..? Drones die fast enough as is, all drones need to have a HP increase otherwise they will not be able to sustain long fights against pilots with a clue.
Drones fail to be resilient only to a person that is expecting a drone boat coming. For all others, Drones do not actually need to be sustained. For evey weapon in Eve there is a counter-strategy, the problem is you rarely expect what you are faced with. same as drones, same as nos, same as ECM.
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:27:00 -
[24]
i dont know if we need new fighter skills, i just dont see why we cant use of the current drone skills and maybe only a few other new fighter skills... all they would be is isk and time sinks it might be nice for something to spec in, but it should be something that is really worth it
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Temo Jick
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:44:00 -
[25]
How about we just boost drone armor and structure but not shields? that way drone users like myself, dont gain a bigger scoop to repair advantage but we also dont suffer quite so much from longer combat time?
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Nero Winger
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:37:00 -
[26]
oh and by the way when you increase the drones damage increase the turrets damage to :D so in this case the increasing of the ships HP makes absolutely no sence at all uhm yay why do you increase them?
drone HP increasing is ok but damage is kinda senseless, because it would make the turrets damage increase to (or should) and then the HP increase of ships is unnessesary.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:58:00 -
[27]
nero, train up Reading and Typing a few more lvls.
increasing a drones or fighters HP does not increase its damage
it would give a Slight boost to their odds of surviving and not leaving their pilots neutered because the ship HP boost means they have all the time in the world to pick off drones.
or let me shoot the turrets and bays off your ships. and randomly destroy them when you warp away in an emergency.
Blaque or Foiritan |
Nero Winger
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: 5n4keyes I personally would like to see fighter specific skills, Eg, Fighter sharpshooting, Fighter Navigation, Fighter Durability.
Yep boost the sheilds and armor, but shouldnt you also boost the power of them slightly, with more hp it means people are going to have longer to warp away from fighters, get to gates, and possibly manage to pop the fighters themselves, thus making them pretty worthless to use, which takes away the primary use for a carrier!
Originally by: noob
nero, train up Reading and Typing a few more lvls.
increasing a drones or fighters HP does not increase its damage
it would give a Slight boost to their odds of surviving and not leaving their pilots neutered because the ship HP boost means they have all the time in the world to pick off drones.
or let me shoot the turrets and bays off your ships. and randomly destroy them when you warp away in an emergency.
train up RL makes flaming a little bit of unnecessary.
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:11:00 -
[29]
/signed
Increasing Drone HP is a must, else give us ability to move drones from cargo hold to drone bay in-space
=================================== Above comments are my personal views, and do not represent my corporation or alliance, unless otherwise indicated |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:41:00 -
[30]
I think that drones' armor being repaired slowly while in the drone bay is a great idea. Shields should return to 100% instantly, but armor should slowly be regenerated. Same as when a ship docks in a station.
Because I said so...
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Nyobe
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:28:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Nyobe on 27/10/2006 00:29:26 Boosting the drone HP is a must. Now, you can kill all kind of drones, from light to heavy, with just a few volley. So fast that it won't give the drone user enough time to scoop them (greetings mr. latency).
Battles will last way longer, especially between battleships, and Drone user will get serious problem with their main weapon destroyed after half of the battle.
Fighter drones don't last long enough, too. They are worth like 20mil and they shouldn't pop as fast as a plated frigatte. Even if Devs see them as something like that.
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Dupac
Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:55:00 -
[32]
In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: ****c In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?
Blaster ships (mega) as well...
Because I said so...
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:51:00 -
[34]
Originally by: ****c In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?
This is true.
In any case. The fighter HP must be boosted.
Carriers should also get some mods and skills that boost fighters. As it stands now 3 things in the game affect fighters: 1. Fighters Skill 2. Drone Control Modules 3. Gallente Carrier Skill
Carrier pilots have no way to augment their offense and so every carrier setup is relatively vanilla.
Something should be change here. Either allow the current drone skills to affect fighters or give us new skills that require specializaiton in the normal drone skills. Allow current mods to affect fighters or give us new capital mods.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Quilan Ziller
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Posted - 2006.10.27 03:42:00 -
[35]
/signed. Drone HPs need to be increased. Otherwise, the HP increase becomes an indirect nerf to *smaller* and very popular drone ships, such as the Ishkur and Vexor (not as much to the Domi!). I doubt that anyone would argue that these ships are overpowered as of now. Their successful deployment depends entirely on the fitting and tactics. Now, with HP boost, fights will take twice as long. Thus, people will have twice the time to take out the drones. A Vexor or Ishkur without their drones = dead Vexor or Ishkur. Drones will become especially unbalanced compared to missiles. Hammerheads, for example, are usually one-shotted by people with good missile skills And the Domi will still own. With 375 m3 of drone bay, Domi pilot will always pack spares. Can't do that in 40 m3 you get with Ishkur. Oh, and Hammerhead II prices are ridiculous. Even less people will use them if the drone HPs are not boosted...
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Fuujin
HDY Research Labs
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Posted - 2006.10.27 04:21:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: ****c In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?
This is true.
In any case. The fighter HP must be boosted.
Carriers should also get some mods and skills that boost fighters. As it stands now 3 things in the game affect fighters: 1. Fighters Skill 2. Drone Control Modules 3. Gallente Carrier Skill
Carrier pilots have no way to augment their offense and so every carrier setup is relatively vanilla.
Something should be change here. Either allow the current drone skills to affect fighters or give us new skills that require specializaiton in the normal drone skills. Allow current mods to affect fighters or give us new capital mods.
I'm leaning towards allowing certain drone skills to affect fighters, i really dont need 3 or 4 more base 12 skills to train as a carrier pilot :( _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn |
Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.27 06:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Fuujin
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: ****c In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?
This is true.
In any case. The fighter HP must be boosted.
Carriers should also get some mods and skills that boost fighters. As it stands now 3 things in the game affect fighters: 1. Fighters Skill 2. Drone Control Modules 3. Gallente Carrier Skill
Carrier pilots have no way to augment their offense and so every carrier setup is relatively vanilla.
Something should be change here. Either allow the current drone skills to affect fighters or give us new skills that require specializaiton in the normal drone skills. Allow current mods to affect fighters or give us new capital mods.
I'm leaning towards allowing certain drone skills to affect fighters, i really dont need 3 or 4 more base 12 skills to train as a carrier pilot :(
As it stands now a carrier pilot cannot specialize but a dominix/ishtar/arbitrator/ishkur/eos/myrmidon/curse/pilgrim pilot can specialize.
Whats wrong with allowing specialization? Are we afraid fighters would become overpowered?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.27 07:03:00 -
[38]
Since this is a sticky, I assume they will be boosted then?
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:25:00 -
[39]
well i dont mind some new fighter skills i think some of hte old basic ones should work as well, if the regular drone skills + beaf up the hp it will work well, but having fighter only skills is a must, its a new type of hmm weapon so you should have more skills for it... its what will make people to be able to spec... from those who just have few fighters and use it a iwin hauler
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Panta Rei
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:00:00 -
[40]
I certainly hope the fighters are getting the HP boost aswell. |
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Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:45:00 -
[41]
Fighter HP - yes Drone HP - no way
----- [23:08:46] GM Fear > I am stuck as well [23:17:57] Sharkbait > so why ... you drag me here. thats just mean :( [23:18:03] GM Fear > hahahaha
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Hex'Caliber
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:46:00 -
[42]
/Signed
Some of you naysayerÆs ought to try loosing five or more hammerÆs at two mil each, god forbid I ever have to face the cost of replacing fighters. If you wish, leave drone and fighter hp as is, then introduce the ability to target an opponentÆs weapons directly, bringing drone ships inline with the other races, I can just imagine how well that would go down. Seriously, the overheads for fielding drone ships are far higher than those of any other weapon platform. All we ask is that our investment last just a little while longer to help offset the increased hp of all ships.
SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
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MOS DEF
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:52:00 -
[43]
Boost HP! A single vagabond can kill off 15 fighters given enough time.
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hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:40:00 -
[44]
wow my first sticky. as a recent carrier piolt, I'm more interested in boosting the fighters. The carrier is a big money sink alone with fighters costing 18 to 20 mil each they cost more than nice fitted frig. fighters are suppose to be the size of a frig. Shouldn't they atleast have the armor/shield and damge be equal to a well fitted frig and around the same cost also. I have seen how fast fiegther pop in combat and how easy they are damaged even by npc rats. The hp change is going to realy gimp the carrier in it abilty to act as a support ship with remote shield/armor boost not to mention its dighting ability. Don't get me wrong the increase was needed for them to make them more of frontline ship. In short fighters need some loving they have few few bugs left in them to work out.
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XyzzyX
ORB enterprises
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:58:00 -
[45]
I would like to see T2 sentry drones in Kali.
Little better tracking, damage, optimal and overal HP than T1. Skills: Sentry drones lv5 and drones range lv4 (or lv5) Maybe 30m^3 as a drawback (so they will fit only on several large drones ship).
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Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:09:00 -
[46]
Leaning towards nay tbh. Simply because it will distinct drone ships from the rest more. Maybe high slot item that acts as repairer for bayed drones (using cap of course)?
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Dari Vire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:52:00 -
[47]
fix for fighters is simple.
ad 20% base and then let the drone bonus skills apply. tracking, durability, speed.
up the durability from 5% per level to 10% per level for normal drones, 20% per level for fighters.
Let the drone modules apply to fighters.
keep the rest the same.
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xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:56:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Aramendel
It would be really nice, though, if the dronebay could function as real maintance bay where drones recharge shield and get their armor and structure repaired *slowly*.
Awesome idea.
This signature space for rent |
Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:21:00 -
[49]
Another suggestion is that carriers should get more drone types.
Instead of JUST having fighters we should also have anti-capital drones called bombers.
I can see a rationale for having fighter-sized logistic drones and other such different larger drones.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Iyanna Swift
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Posted - 2006.10.27 17:44:00 -
[50]
This could help a little in this area:
Slight drone HP boost 10% or less. Drone Durability skill boost to 10% per level Drone Resistance skill 5% resists across the board to armor or shield
Repairing in the bay would be nice as well, but I don't think it's as important.
As for fighters, more shield HP, even 15% or so, would give them much greater durability because of the recharge. They are quite an investment now (SP and ISK), make it a worthwhile one.
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:41:00 -
[51]
Can we all just stop nerfing drones, please? Dominix is already nerfed when when we got limited to five drones deployable. The drone damage/hp increase to battleships skill in RMR should have been 40%, not 20, since it used to be able to deloy 15 drones.
Now nerfing again?? and nerfing EW as well??? Oh well, I just have to buy a +5 perception and willpower implants so i can be a gunnery/missiles pilot like everyone else.
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:15:00 -
[52]
I mean 20%, not 10%
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Mothmar Friedsquid
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:37:00 -
[53]
/signed.
Drones are already pretty weak. Give out some more drone-specific upgrades and chop their signature radius. It makes 0 sense that an unmanned Ogre I has four times the signature radius of a manned Atron, and almost three times the radius of a Tristan.
Mothmar Friedsquid. Because SWG sucked and EVE doesn't require my entire life.
Recruit me if you're part of a huge guild that rocks and is going to build a titan someday. |
Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: murder one I think that drones' armor being repaired slowly while in the drone bay is a great idea. Shields should return to 100% instantly, but armor should slowly be regenerated. Same as when a ship docks in a station.
Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time.
With the HP boosts thats going to be even worse.
Plus even if the shields didnt recharge instantly, returning drones to bay cancels locks on the drones.
I think that if a drone is engaged it should not be able to be called in. Otherwise drone boats are invulnerable. Drones being killable is part of their (very few) drawbacks. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? |
marcouk2
Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.28 02:03:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tasty Burger I think that if a drone is engaged it should not be able to be called in. Otherwise drone boats are invulnerable. Drones being killable is part of their (very few) drawbacks.
That would make drones even less of a good weapon than they are now; it would prevent switching drone types mid battle, for example switching to light drones to get rid of an inty scrambling you. Also it means that any ship using drones would be unable to deaggress at all.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.10.28 03:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: hitech redneck Edited by: hitech redneck on 26/10/2006 13:10:17 sorry if there is a post about this. I sure hope ccp increased the hp or shield on fighters and drones to match the increase of the ships. With the cost of fighters they pop pretty easy now. Just think now that it will take longer to kill ships they become a very high risk investment.
for me is a nono
why?
simple, hps improvement on ship improve the defensive compartment of a ship and is designed to make battle last longer...
drone instead are a weapon/utility, to improve their hps will be like to improve their general efficency... to do a crappy example it could be like to reduce cap usage for lasers or cap consumption for damps...
as drones are alredy very efficent with good damage, full damage choice, ability to hit while droneboat is jammed, less speed problem than normal weapons, not linked to droneboat speed... i think such change is a bit out of place, expecially considering that the only real cons of drone is the fact that they can be destroyed.
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.28 06:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: murder one I think that drones' armor being repaired slowly while in the drone bay is a great idea. Shields should return to 100% instantly, but armor should slowly be regenerated. Same as when a ship docks in a station.
Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time.
With the HP boosts thats going to be even worse.
Plus even if the shields didnt recharge instantly, returning drones to bay cancels locks on the drones.
I think that if a drone is engaged it should not be able to be called in. Otherwise drone boats are invulnerable. Drones being killable is part of their (very few) drawbacks.
i have a solution... make it a time delay for drones to undock from the bay... each one has its own timer like few sec before you can undock them if you docked the drones... but you could then launch other drones and use those, and then call those back and use others
but it would then prevent you from using that tool to boost shields.. but you forget that heavy and fighters can be webbed and stopped in there tracks
this should be a small delay, but if this happens then drones should also regen armor and hull in your bay to be fair, or make a module that takes cap and reps the drones in bay
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Ipak
Emerald Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.28 11:46:00 -
[58]
/me signed As it is now on the real server, and the testing server drones and fighters imo are too easy to kill. Effectively nullifying many drone ships... Even if drones dont get a straight up full hp bonus, but rather through skills that would be nice as well. That way you still need to specialize in drones to make them last longer.. ----------------- ZoMg! what is this sig thing? |
Faricar
Caldari Infinite Innovations Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.10.28 14:06:00 -
[59]
Fighters 50% Drone 25%
There we go settled...
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Jacob Holland
Gallente FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.28 16:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tasty Burger Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time.
While Scoop and Redeploy is rather poor form (and if it weren't for the legitimate need to switch between drone types I would suggest that it's close to being an exploit) I might compare it to sitting on a station, taking a few potshots and deagressing in time to dock. The fact that it's possible is one of the peculiarities of drones. As a drone user the loss of a drone is more than awkward - it's a serious problem, especially with the post nerf small dronebays. The fact that they can be scooped and relaunched is a discouragement to shooting them, in the same way as depriving your enemy of another weapon is an incentive.
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.28 16:56:00 -
[61]
Why does everyone act like its so easy to just recall and redeploy them with full shields? Does anybody realize how long it takes to recall heavy drones 20km? Assuming they come back at their max speed... which they don't always appear to do, that should take somewhere between 20-30 seconds. Another 10 seconds to actually get in the hold and be redeployed, and another few seconds back to the target....Oh, yeah. And all of this with a 0 transversal velocity relative to the enemy.
Assuming they don't get destroyed on their way back (and assuming they don't "get stuck" like half of them usually do).. that's 30-60 seconds that I dont have fire on the enemy, while they enemy has fire on me. And besides, it only repairs shields, not armor or structure.
The recall technique is not feasible. To keep constant fire on the enemy, you need to be keeping spares in your hold and replacing them as they go down. Now that ships have higher HP, my drones will have to last longer than before.
Increase HP on drones, or lower their sig (way to big anyway), or increase the size of drone bays.
Please don't nerf drones again.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.28 19:05:00 -
[62]
/signed
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.28 19:06:00 -
[63]
Quote: Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time. Rolling Eyes
golly, your a drone expert.
why not make up an rule that turret users cant reload. prevent those cheaters from releasing brand new undamaged bullets after their target has spent their cap and their time surviving the other ones. makes just as much sense.
the HP boost is a straight up nerf for drones and fighters. people are proving this on the test server. they need a boost to stay in the game, or give them the ability to tear off the enemy turrets and missle bays.
Blaque or Foiritan |
Admiral Pieg
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.28 20:31:00 -
[64]
as someone with 5 mill sp in drones, signed a million times ______________
Pod from above. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.28 22:11:00 -
[65]
Curious how no Dev comment on this yet. One of the few stickies not to. Makes me nervous. -----------------------------------------------
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.28 22:30:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ath Amon as drones are alredy very efficent with (- - -) full damage choice,
Tell me a bit more about this "full damage choice".
Do you mean that a drone user can switch their damage types according to what they are against? (Not really, carriers excepted.)
Or that they can pre-choose their damage type with total freedom? (Hint: check the damage modifiers of the different drones.)
Originally by: Ath Amon
less speed problem than normal weapons, not linked to droneboat speed...
Sorry, I really don't understand what you're saying here. Please elaborate?
Originally by: Ath Amon the only real cons of drone is the fact that they can be destroyed.
Don't I wish. If the ship has to warp out, they're gone. They're the slowest weapon to start doing damage and they have a short range. Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities... -- NMTZ forum |
Tek'a Rain
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.28 23:02:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities...
cats have smaller sig.
Blaque or Foiritan |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.10.29 02:33:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 29/10/2006 02:33:55
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Ath Amon as drones are alredy very efficent with (- - -) full damage choice,
Tell me a bit more about this "full damage choice".
Do you mean that a drone user can switch their damage types according to what they are against? (Not really, carriers excepted.)
Or that they can pre-choose their damage type with total freedom? (Hint: check the damage modifiers of the different drones.)
carrier can do that, domi can do that too, but is more "efficent" in some pirating situations (like low sec/belt pirating) where maybe you can't know what damage to use, but for sure you can exclude a pair of damage type, you can reduce a bit your base dps but you gain in "unresisted damage"
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Ath Amon
less speed problem than normal weapons, not linked to droneboat speed...
Sorry, I really don't understand what you're saying here. Please elaborate?
simply... drones have less tracking issues than turrets so for example... maybe 800mm have a lot of troubles traking a ship orbiting at 2k/s but for drones is not that big problem
speed not linked to droneboat her an example... a nanophoon can orbit at 5k/s around a BS... for its guns it will be impossible to track/hit the target, but its heavy drone have no problems to do that
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Ath Amon the only real cons of drone is the fact that they can be destroyed.
Don't I wish. If the ship has to warp out, they're gone. They're the slowest weapon to start doing damage and they have a short range. Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities...
sure is not nice to have to leave drones behind, but when you warp out you are also exiting from combat... hopefully you can get new drones before a new engagement so the problem here is mostly a money loss... but also consider that drones use no ammo so, as long as you don't lose them you have no manteinance costs.
also i can agree that the cost can be quite high for an hard core "drone" pvper, but as said you have many pros from drones and not that many cons...
of course i'm leaving bugs a bit out of the discussion as there is the hope they will be corrected... (i use drones too and i know how silly are the "anarchic drones")
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eveplayer11
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Posted - 2006.10.29 02:47:00 -
[69]
i would like to see turrets/launchers get damaged and destroyed in combat so they can feel the pain. i mean why not? you ship is bombarded but the guns keep working no matter what...
until weapon modules start to take damage in combat id like to see drones get a nice juicy survival boost, support drones can remain the same imo.
i realy like the drone bay to repair drones hull/armor slowly. would be better if we could just could start using crews on our ships so ship hull/armor slowly regenerates too aslong as you have some crew alive working, when you take hull damage a % of the crew dies depending on how mutch hull you have left. perhaps in the future..
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Unfamed II
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.29 03:05:00 -
[70]
/signed with love <3 Drones die easy enough already, and with all the ships getting hp boost, they are actually getting a crapload of resisted hp boost. Drones don't get the added bonus of resists from modules.
Fighters definitely need the 50% hp boost.
And give nidhoggur a bit better bonus. Seriously, it's not that great being an amarr, is it?
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Kanshisha 2nd
Caldari The Beiatch Corp Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.29 04:11:00 -
[71]
On a slightly different matter, although still with respects to drones and fighters,
1) a fighter MWD's to the target, it even MWD's to a buddy when allocated, WHY doesnt it not MWD back to the carrier?
2) if a ship is under attack, and drones are already launched, they will defend the ship, if however you launch drones AFTER you are being attacked the drones sit there eating pop-corn watching the show.... WHY do drones not notice the shots that take place AFTER the first? add a button "DEFEND ME" under the drone category so that the drones can do something rather than sit there and watch you die.
3) As for the scoop - re-deploy tactic, have you actually ever tried this with fighters?? i dont mean to sound harsh, but a dia-abled snail could make it back faster!
4) Skills for drones should effect fighters also (or at the very least add a "specialization" after the main skill to improve both drones AND Fighters.
5) I agree fully that fighters / drones should be given the same boost as other ships, and also that a module (or perhaps a rig) would allow for drones to be repaired (slowly) in the drone-bay
6) ok i have repair drones, and i can get them to repair each other... WHY cant i get them to repair me?? this is insane!!
These in my eyes are problems that need seriously addressing with drones in general.
Kanshisha
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 07:00:00 -
[72]
the biggest problem with drones and fighters and i said this... they could make drones like turrets in a way... with the options that you have on your ship... stop move, move at X speed mwd on/off, approach keep range at X, orbit at X range...
this was needed from day one to drones... then they could have proper tracking as they should and you would have more control of them... i want them to stop moving NOT STOP shooting!! there are 2 diff things when you tell your drones to stop shooting or stop moving...
i would like to see drones coming back to you at regular speed or at mwd speed and option to stop shooting or keep shooting until they dock in your bay.
i would like this to be set maybe by groups, like have the gang squads for your drones... assign each drone to a squad and then give that squad commands, individual commands would be sweet too but not sure if possible or if it creates lag? I donÆt think it should be that bad all ships have max of 5 drones only carriers and motherships have more?
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El'jonson
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:20:00 -
[73]
Basically what all drone specialists want is for drones to be treated as anoughter 'full' weapon system, instead of the surport weapon that most people see them as.
Drones need to be able to last longer in a fight, wether this is through more hp or higher resists or decreasing their sig radius so they are harder to hit.
The bugs with the drones/fighters need fixing seriously its getting beyond a joke when a guy flying a carrier gets dropped by the server and loses all his fighters, this should of been sorted before carrier were released and a year on (nearly) its still broke.
In line with drones being treated as a full weapon system they need more commands (that work), such as defend target etc like drone users have been asking for.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:25:00 -
[74]
im with you Patch. the lack of gold bars is worrying. someone from dev team could at least come in and say "we aint changing anything for you, STFU nubs and go train caldari"
I wouldnt like it, but it would beat being ignored by a slim margin.
Foiritan Is Our Man |
Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:39:00 -
[75]
they might as well delay the patch until they fix capital ships (carriers) bonus and the fighter/drones because tbh its a very big part of the game now, it has to be fixed you cant have fighters that go at regular speed to your drone bay when every ship has hp boost and able to tank them... and pop your fighters real easy
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.29 23:19:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
/Signed
I think drones need attention in a few ways.
Signature radius decrease (10-15% less?) makes sense to me, as does the durability skill being pumped another 5% per level for drones and fighters effectively allowing better specialisation...then a small universal hp boost to all drones, much less than the universal ship boosts though (say 10-15%?). I'd hope these changes would combine to give more differentiaton from poor drone skills pilots, to good drone skills pilots (though I admittedly am no great funambulist). :)
Immediate scooping and redeploying of drones - I'm agreed that if used in a close range fight this mechanic would annoy me a lot if I were the one trying to pop the opponents drones only to see them scooped then come back on full shield every time they get low - but as a tactical suggestion people really should just think of popping the enemy ship so the drones die anyway. :)
One possible solution to this is the idea of a delay in redeploying scooped drones which could work by giving ships a dronebay repair speed attribute (X hp/sec - with some droneship bonuses please) for conducting repairs in bay and saying that only fully repaired drones can be relaunched.
Personally I mostly fly a Thorax and although I have skills for tech II Hammerheads, with a price of roughly 2 mil each - 5 of them costs more than my actual ship!! Combine those costs with your modules and it makes being Gallente just too god damn expensive to compete!!
I've also seen how easy heavy drones get popped which makes me think it'd currently be a bit of a waste of time getting the skills for Ogre II's. And after reading the above comments from the experts I'm convinced fighters would be a massive disappointment too (especially relative to the cost).
After Kali with fights lasting longer, drones will inevitably get popped more, so risking 10 mil of drones every combat becomes even less viable since even if I win a fight and lose my drones - I've effectively lost more than my ship is worth!
And to the person who was whining about cost of ammo (& time) lost on firing on drones that get redeployed!?!? Pffft...Maybe you'd like to try leaving half your guns behind every time you warp away since they're not responding properly to orders!
Just my tuppence worth...Thanks.
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.30 03:09:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Ansuru Starlancer on 30/10/2006 03:10:11
Originally by: Tek'a Rain
Originally by: Theron Gyrow Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities...
cats have smaller sig.
Cats only pull aggro from all dogs on the block, rather than in the entire city :p
Signed. Drones do need more HP. Anyone bishing about the recall-and-release tactic has never tried doing it at anything other than point blank in-yo-face range (the only range at which it isn't WORTHLESS tyvm!)
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Running Mann
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Posted - 2006.10.30 07:05:00 -
[78]
Anybody *****ing about the redeployment must not use drones much, or else must not use drones at anything past 5km. I'm sorry, but I enjoy using mine out to 40-90km and they're at a huge risk once on their way back, since they fly a straight trajectory of course and that significantly lowers their transversal in many cases. Maybe with a health boost or sig reduction (would be in favor a signature reducing skill) they'd make it home more often when trouble strikes.
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Turtla
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Posted - 2006.10.30 08:45:00 -
[79]
Im just thinking, will the rigs only work for drones or will they work for fighters also? Or will fighters be the only(i think) weapon that does not have the ability of some kind of boost with the rigs?
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Maverick McDougel
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.30 10:01:00 -
[80]
you can get back fighter drones that you loose due to loosing connection by petitioning, but it can take days and it wastes the GM's time. they should just make them return to you and scoop themselves back to your hold since you sit in space at 1 mil km for 1 minute if you have no agression timer or up to 15 minutes if you do hve an agression timer. support BattleClinic buy gtc's from BattleClinic |
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Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.10.30 12:53:00 -
[81]
Why is this the only sticky without any form of Dev response?
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Dari Vire
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:09:00 -
[82]
the no wmd back to ship is so annoying i just jetcan something usually and tell them to attack it to get around it.
I like the fact that the drones don't run off and attack things on there own all though it would be good to have a toggle to seek and destroy.
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.10.30 15:24:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Ath Amon
simply... drones have less tracking issues than turrets so for example... maybe 800mm have a lot of troubles traking a ship orbiting at 2k/s but for drones is not that big problem
Have you ever seen non-light drones hit a 2km/s frig? Thats what I thought. And don't tell me small turrets won't hit that same frig, because they will.
Originally by: Ath Amon
speed not linked to droneboat her an example... a nanophoon can orbit at 5k/s around a BS... for its guns it will be impossible to track/hit the target, but its heavy drone have no problems to do that
Its missiles won't have any problem hitting either. What you describe affects only turrets, not missiles or drones. Nerf missiles too?
Drones really do need a significant HP boost especially if all the ships are getting a 50% boost. I suggest at least 100%, since drone HP now is rather low imo.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. |
Scylla V
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.30 15:33:00 -
[84]
Increase in hitpoints is definately needed for both drones and fighters.
Also, as someone else mentioned, a DEFEND option is needed. It makes no sense for drones to just orbit your ship and not shoot people that aggressed you.
I mean it's only fair, missile users can still keep fighting (FOF missiles) even when they have no target lock. So why can't drones ? Someone is gonna ask for FOF ammo rounds now, you'll see :-)
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Chronojam
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:13:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Chronojam on 30/10/2006 16:14:33
Originally by: Maverick McDougel you can get back fighter drones that you loose due to loosing connection by petitioning, but it can take days and it wastes the GM's time. they should just make them return to you and scoop themselves back to your hold since you sit in space at 1 mil km for 1 minute if you have no agression timer or up to 15 minutes if you do hve an agression timer.
I never knew this was possible. I lost a couple 2 mil value HH2 due to a particular kind of deadspace crashing/connectiondropping me in a prior version with varying frequency, and did not think that my loss due to "lag/computer problems" would be acceptable.
Yes, warping out with drones deployed, or crashing/disconnecting and losing them in space, if they're T2 like any real drone user uses, is instantly dropping around five to ten million worth of drones that aren't even in any kind of good supply anywhere. And not only is it dropping ten million of drones, it's also somebody else probably getting a chance to snap them up, and you sitting there *defenseless* assuming you built your ship around your drones (just like somebody with high gunnery might build around his guns, or somebody with strong shield skills might build a tank around his shields)
Also, signing on for the defend option; both a defend-me and a defend-this-nonhostile-overview-target option. I'd like to sometimes be able to send my drones out to just wait somewhere or watch over a buddy.
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Cosmic Flame
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:07:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Cosmic Flame on 30/10/2006 19:08:07 Good point.
If a drone ship crashes, then the drones should also dissappear or something and remain in the player's control when he logs back on. Before with cheap T1 drones it wasn't such a big loss but now... with fighters and T2 drones it's a big issue. You lose connection or the node crashes and bye bye tens if not hundreds of millions worth of drones. It's not fair. |
Celestos Marxii
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:03:00 -
[87]
signed signed signed signed!
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:20:00 -
[88]
CCP, if you want a Dominix to do the same damage with 5 drones it used to do with 15 (before RMR), the battleships skill drone damage/HP bonus should be 20%, not 10.
Please change this along with the increase in drone/fighter HP so drone ships will remain a viable platform. You're cutting it pretty close... especially if you nerf NOS and neuts, as i've heard some speculation of.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:52:00 -
[89]
This is getting dangerously close to 4 pages- and if a thread reaches 4 pages without a Dev comment, you know its not likely to.
Probably means they're still thinking about it. If they'd made their mind up either way, they'd have let us know...............probably. -----------------------------------------------
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Mothmar Friedsquid
Gallente Spacley Sprockets Shipyards
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:18:00 -
[90]
Odd that noone really complains about drone signatures being so bloody huge except me. How is it that you can stuff a full capsule, all the life support systems it needs, a warp drive, and 160M^3 of cargo in a frigate and it doesn't give off as much of a heat signature as a blaster with an AI in it? Mothmar Friedsquid. Because SWG sucked and EVE doesn't require my entire life.
Currently running missions with Spacely Sprockets, Inc. We're recruiting mature and intelligent players. |
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:41:00 -
[91]
Mothmar, actually I never even noticed the sig radius was that big. You're right. It doesn't make sense at all, considering that even a heavy drone only occupies 25m3 of space. Quite insignificant compared to an assembled frigate. I don't know how much that is, but when I stick packaged Atrons in my indy they take up 2500.
IMHO, drones are dangerously close to becoming a non-viable weapons platform.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:57:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Mothmar Friedsquid Odd that noone really complains about drone signatures being so bloody huge except me. How is it that you can stuff a full capsule, all the life support systems it needs, a warp drive, and 160M^3 of cargo in a frigate and it doesn't give off as much of a heat signature as a blaster with an AI in it?
I don't want to go into the mechanics balancing thing (because I don't feel like number crunching). But, if you want a fluff reason:
Drones are remote controlled by computers and / or crew men aboard the control ship. The drone and it's conroller must be in continuous radio contact the whole time it's in space. The communications signal emmanating from the drone gives it a large sensor footprint. In other words, it's constant radio chatter with the control ship lights it up like a light bulb- thus, big sig-rad. -----------------------------------------------
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GrumpyCat
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:49:00 -
[93]
Fighters: Sure boost their hp Drones: Nope, they have decent hp as it is
Drones should slowly repair their armour and you also be able to move drones from cargo to drone bay if your cap is at 100% and have no modules activated.
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Scylla V
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:13:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Mothmar Friedsquid Odd that noone really complains about drone signatures being so bloody huge except me. How is it that you can stuff a full capsule, all the life support systems it needs, a warp drive, and 160M^3 of cargo in a frigate and it doesn't give off as much of a heat signature as a blaster with an AI in it?
I don't want to go into the mechanics balancing thing (because I don't feel like number crunching). But, if you want a fluff reason:
Drones are remote controlled by computers and / or crew men aboard the control ship. The drone and it's conroller must be in continuous radio contact the whole time it's in space. The communications signal emmanating from the drone gives it a large sensor footprint. In other words, it's constant radio chatter with the control ship lights it up like a light bulb- thus, big sig-rad.
What constant radio chatter ? They really don't listen very well at all.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:33:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Scylla V
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Mothmar Friedsquid Odd that noone really complains about drone signatures being so bloody huge except me. How is it that you can stuff a full capsule, all the life support systems it needs, a warp drive, and 160M^3 of cargo in a frigate and it doesn't give off as much of a heat signature as a blaster with an AI in it?
I don't want to go into the mechanics balancing thing (because I don't feel like number crunching). But, if you want a fluff reason:
Drones are remote controlled by computers and / or crew men aboard the control ship. The drone and it's conroller must be in continuous radio contact the whole time it's in space. The communications signal emmanating from the drone gives it a large sensor footprint. In other words, it's constant radio chatter with the control ship lights it up like a light bulb- thus, big sig-rad.
What constant radio chatter ? They really don't listen very well at all.
Fair point.......maybe theres a lot of static, and a whole lot of "Attack the thorax!" "Huh?" "The Thorax! Attack the thorax!" "What? Something abouth Thought Tax?" "THE CRUISER! SHOOT THE CRUISER!" "Hey, Hammerhead #4, do we get FM radio on this thing?". -----------------------------------------------
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Suffer Baby
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:19:00 -
[96]
Ok this may be a little off topic but having started reading this thread I noticed a "what am i listening to" link.
I selected the link, LOL has anyone else modeled their ingame look by using a mirror like Ithildin (follow his link to see what i mean)?
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Triss S'Jet
Gallente Salvage Requisitions Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 12:36:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Triss S''Jet on 31/10/2006 12:36:47 /signed
I mean come on, if your enemy knows what he is doing, drones have absolutely no chance of surviving during longer fights, they need a HP boost!
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.31 23:26:00 -
[98]
Fighters need 2 things currently. I won't comment yet upon what they need for Kali, though some more HP does seem reasonable. They aren't exactly cheap.
1) The ability to tell them NOT to warp after a target. The majority of time that I use my carrier in combat now, they're just baited off to a safespotted enemy on fighter-killing detail, or lead to a POS where they sit outside the shield and get picked apart. Just give me an option to toggle their warp capability for the love of God. Half the time I have to use heavy drones in combat simply because when a hostile warps out, I don't lose all my firepower.
2) The MWD-orbit bug. When a Fighter goes after a target, it drops into orbit around the target and continues to MWD for a short period of time, during which it totally nerfs its ability to track the target. In short, it ends up moving too fast for its own guns to track. After several seconds they slow down enough for this to be resolved, but it's a lot of lost DPS.
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Kloro Draz
Gallente Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2006.11.01 01:54:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cosmic Flame Edited by: Cosmic Flame on 30/10/2006 19:08:07 Good point.
If a drone ship crashes, then the drones should also dissappear or something and remain in the player's control when he logs back on. Before with cheap T1 drones it wasn't such a big loss but now... with fighters and T2 drones it's a big issue. You lose connection or the node crashes and bye bye tens if not hundreds of millions worth of drones. It's not fair.
On the subject of drones ... why are there no named drones?
Part of the reason t2 drones cost so much is that there is nothing "almost as good" that drops from rats. Heck, if balancing is such a big issue, have some rats drop t2 rather than t1 drones.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.01 23:49:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Kloro Draz
Originally by: Cosmic Flame Edited by: Cosmic Flame on 30/10/2006 19:08:07 Good point.
If a drone ship crashes, then the drones should also dissappear or something and remain in the player's control when he logs back on. Before with cheap T1 drones it wasn't such a big loss but now... with fighters and T2 drones it's a big issue. You lose connection or the node crashes and bye bye tens if not hundreds of millions worth of drones. It's not fair.
On the subject of drones ... why are there no named drones?
Part of the reason t2 drones cost so much is that there is nothing "almost as good" that drops from rats. Heck, if balancing is such a big issue, have some rats drop t2 rather than t1 drones.
There needs to be faction drones: Shadow Serpentis Hammerheads- all black with green lights. Stuff like that.
Because I said so...
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Maverick McDougel
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:06:00 -
[101]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Kloro Draz
Originally by: Cosmic Flame Edited by: Cosmic Flame on 30/10/2006 19:08:07 Good point.
If a drone ship crashes, then the drones should also dissappear or something and remain in the player's control when he logs back on. Before with cheap T1 drones it wasn't such a big loss but now... with fighters and T2 drones it's a big issue. You lose connection or the node crashes and bye bye tens if not hundreds of millions worth of drones. It's not fair.
On the subject of drones ... why are there no named drones?
Part of the reason t2 drones cost so much is that there is nothing "almost as good" that drops from rats. Heck, if balancing is such a big issue, have some rats drop t2 rather than t1 drones.
There needs to be faction drones: Shadow Serpentis Hammerheads- all black with green lights. Stuff like that.
please make those rouge drones have officer or faction spawns that drop officer or faction drone bpc's. me love you long time if you do. or even have them drop stuff like 1-3 run harvester drone bpc's or something unique like that. support BattleClinic buy gtc's from BattleClinic |
Mokojn
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.11.02 19:18:00 -
[102]
While I know it's pointless to add 'me too' I agree with this. I have 50% of my skillpoints invested in drones, and they are incredibly fragile, hard to replace in certain areas and ineffective in many ways (why can't drones WMD back. Why won't anyone address that issue?!)
Please, developers, at least think about addressing this. Don't promise to do anything, but confirm you're aware of our concerns at least.
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:21:00 -
[103]
A few suggestions....
1 - Decrease drone sig. It was already mentioned that it's 4x bigger than a frig... kinda rediculous. 2 - With sig decreased an hp increase would probably not be necessary. 3 - Make smart bombs the drone deterrent (ie. make smart bombs better). 4 - Increase the range of remote reppers by A LOT. ATM they're useless for repping drones. 5 - And this is the most important.... FIX THE GD DRONES SO THEY RETURN WHEN TOLD! I've lost soooo many tech2 drones lately because of this bug. Sure if you're sitting still they're return to bay, but if they try to dock from behind while you're moving, forget it.
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Russo
Amarria Auxilia The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.03 06:44:00 -
[104]
Something that needs dire attention is fighters need to MWD BACK TO THE CARRIER. They are VERY SLOWWWWWWW. And its 20mil to lose one of them. I have better things to do in eve than generate isk in a time sink just to replace your brain dead fighters.
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia XL pod for an XL personality
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hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2006.11.03 12:32:00 -
[105]
I guess this is another issue that is going to be ignored by ccp. No lack of reply from the dev's does not give us players much hope.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2006.11.03 15:14:00 -
[106]
/signed Drones need either a good reduction of their sig radius or a generous HP boost. Or the combination of both to a smaller effect each.
As for the people saying that is viable to call the drones back in bay (while they are at 45 Km away) and survive, i wish that was the case but it's not.
------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Rigsta
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.11.04 00:09:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Rigsta on 04/11/2006 00:14:04 Edited by: Rigsta on 04/11/2006 00:12:10
Quote: for me is a nono
why?
simple, hps improvement on ship improve the defensive compartment of a ship and is designed to make battle last longer...
drone instead are a weapon/utility, to improve their hps will be like to improve their general efficency... to do a crappy example it could be like to reduce cap usage for lasers or cap consumption for damps...
as drones are alredy very efficent with good damage, full damage choice, ability to hit while droneboat is jammed, less speed problem than normal weapons, not linked to droneboat speed... i think such change is a bit out of place, expecially considering that the only real cons of drone is the fact that they can be destroyed.
And they have to be scooped before warping. Doesn't sound so bad? Well, try being in a fleet or gang where you have to move, or just wait 30 seconds before warping anywhere after a battle (depending on range). Shields do indeed represent 30% or less of a drone's HP, and have to be all but stationary to scoop them. I usually scoop drones to break the opponent's lock on them rather than repair their shields, that's just a nice bonus.
If the drone HP stays as it currently is, destroying your opponent's drones is a non-brainer decision. If it's changed to be in line with the ships then it's one you have to consider (just like it is on TQ right now).
Then consider cost. If drones cost about as much as ammo I wouln't mind losing them for stupid reasons so much. Yes, T2 drones. If I have to bug out and leave my drones it feels like I lost my wallet in the rush :(
Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.04 12:01:00 -
[108]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Fighters need 2 things currently. I won't comment yet upon what they need for Kali, though some more HP does seem reasonable. They aren't exactly cheap.
1) The ability to tell them NOT to warp after a target. The majority of time that I use my carrier in combat now, they're just baited off to a safespotted enemy on fighter-killing detail, or lead to a POS where they sit outside the shield and get picked apart. Just give me an option to toggle their warp capability for the love of God. Half the time I have to use heavy drones in combat simply because when a hostile warps out, I don't lose all my firepower.
2) The MWD-orbit bug. When a Fighter goes after a target, it drops into orbit around the target and continues to MWD for a short period of time, during which it totally nerfs its ability to track the target. In short, it ends up moving too fast for its own guns to track. After several seconds they slow down enough for this to be resolved, but it's a lot of lost DPS.
^^ YES PLEASE !!!
And where is our dear devs? Allways in the turrent threads I guess..
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:48:00 -
[109]
Tux has been considering it, I wouldn't be surprised if he improves drones a bit, but we're still looking at playtesting feedback from Singularity in general before doing any major updates.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Ihar Enda
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:53:00 -
[110]
Yes, drone hp boost is much needed in the light of ship hp boost, so please go ahead and do it
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:34:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Oveur Tux has been considering it, I wouldn't be surprised if he improves drones a bit, but we're still looking at playtesting feedback from Singularity in general before doing any major updates.
Aw, you had to go and prove me wrong by replying, didn't you!
Good to know its being looked into. Judging by what I'm hearing from people on the test server, drones are gonna need said boost. Myrmidon is a nightmare to fly, with its drones getting popped, and Vexor isn't fairing much better either. -----------------------------------------------
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Jasai Kameron
The Palladium Union
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Posted - 2006.11.05 17:05:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Jasai Kameron on 05/11/2006 17:06:40
Originally by: Nihilion Saro CCP, if you want a Dominix to do the same damage with 5 drones it used to do with 15 (before RMR), the battleships skill drone damage/HP bonus should be 20%, not 10.
Please change this along with the increase in drone/fighter HP so drone ships will remain a viable platform. You're cutting it pretty close... especially if you nerf NOS and neuts, as i've heard some speculation of.
This is missing the effect of the Drone Interfacing skill. At the moment, Drone Interfacing gives a 20% boost per level. So five drones x 100% (assuming the skill to level 5) gives you the equivalent of ten drones in damage and hp. Then add the Dom's ship bonus - 10% per level - so that's a 50% increase on the already boosted damage and hp, giving you the equivalent of fifteen drones.
Least, I think that's how it works!
'course, one could argue that it should be the other way round, with the ship bonus being 20% and the interfacing bonus being 10%, but I quite like it this way. I think drones should be skill intensive to be good, just like every other weapon. (I've just finished gal bs to level 5 and have 3 weeks left for drone interfacing to level 5. )
I agree that hp should be increased, but failing that, I think we'll see sensor dampeners replace ecm on many Dominix and Ishtar setups.
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mallina
Caldari DeStInY.
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Posted - 2006.11.05 18:58:00 -
[113]
Im more concerned that they didnt increase Cap amount and decrease cap booster size along with the HP boost. Not doing so is a nerf to all cap-heavy ships.
As for fighters, yes they need a boost - but drones are difficult. The ability to scoop a drone and redeploy it to instantly regen its shields is extremely useful and for heavier drones it may take several redeploys before the drone dies. If you increase shield HP on drones, you give the controller MORE time to scoop the drone before it takes any damage whatsoever. If you were already struggling to kill drones before they got redeployed then this will make it harder-maybe even impossible do so.
making drone shields recharge slowly in drone bay (20-30s or so for 0-100%) would fix this, but only shields - NOT armor or hull. ----------- Turbulance |
Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.05 22:16:00 -
[114]
when will the drones and fighters get fixed so they mwd back to the ship... that is a very important thing... kali cant hit live with that bug that is just stupid
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:27:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/11/2006 23:29:08 Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/11/2006 23:28:42 Drones definitely need some love, with the HP boost we need to know our primary weapon system isn't just going to go pop before the fight is half way through.
A HP increase however likely isn't the answer
Perhaps a boost to dronebays across the board similar to the considered lowering of ammo volume (alternatively lower the volume of each drone, but altering the dronebay allows tweaking between ships)
Another suggestion would be a significant reduction in signature radius. Making them near impossible for anything larger than a destroyer to take out, a nice side-effect of this would be giving t1 destroyers an increased use in combat.
In the case of fighters id say go for the bay boost or the HP boost as they resemble NPC allies more than a nest of angry wasps. With their impressive isk value I'd say a HP boost is likely best in their case.
[Edit: grammar ]
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:33:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 05/11/2006 23:40:13 Signed as many times as the millions of points I have in the drones category.
Instead of only considering HP though, signature radius should be looked as at well.
Just some numbers (only combat drones considered here): light drones - 25m medium drones - 60m heavy drones - 125m fighters - 125m sentry drones - 400m
Compare this with these (not precise): shuttles - 25m frigates - 30 to 50m cruisers - 120 to 150m battleships - 400 to 450m
Are we seriously to believe that light drones have the same signature radius as shuttles? That medium drones have a bigger signature radius as frigates? That heavy drones and fighters have the same signature radius as a cruiser and that a sentry drone has the same signature radius as a battleship?
If signature radius has any relationship to ship size (which ofcourse it has), I think not.
So far, this has not lead to many problems because of the average short time of engagement. Since this will now be increased by increasing ship HP (a positive change), adequate changes need to made.
I propose the following changes to signature radius based on ship size appearence in game (not a precise science, I admit): light drones - 12m medium drones - 25m heavy drones - 30m fighters - 50m sentry drones - 75m
This would make light drones have half the radius of a shuttle, medium drones the radius of a shuttle, heavy drones the radius of a small frigate, fighter drones the radius of big frigates and sentry drones in between frigates and cruisers, somewhat like a destroyer.
What will be the expected result of this change? Well, mostly, it would make drones harder to hit for big guns ofcourse. This will give them staying power in the longer engagements we're going to have. Also it means that combined arms will be needed for a fleet to survive. The dedicated frigate-killer will also be needed to fend off drones, it may even give some purpose to the poor destroyer as well, not to mention the smartbomb.
With these changes to the signature radius, a dramatic increase in HP shouldn't be necessary as well (maybe half the relative increase given to normal ships?).
I also don't think it will overpower drones. For one, as a weapon drones were underpowered to begin with. For two, drones will still have a counter in small turrets, rockets and light missiles, and (lets not forget) other drones.
I'll be happy to test these changes on the test server.
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aquontium
Gallente Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2006.11.06 00:37:00 -
[117]
I have to agree with Mr. Crane on this, even including making the sentry drone sig 75m. Still seems too big when they don't have a propulsion system, but I do understand that other players need to be able to hit them.
Having said that, there are so many issues with drones it's hard to know where to start. Personally I'd love to see drones MWD back to ship or at least fly back in a curve (they're meant to be intelligent, we've read the Chronicles), I want them to regularly engage targets rather than 'hey........we're almost halfway there.............it's Kit Kat time! (have a break)'. I'd like to see them hit things that are webbed/painted properly, I'd like to see them not 'go dumb' when they're in structure. I'd like to see them no longer stop and MicroWalkDrive back to the drone bay, or ignore commands to do anything, sometimes. I'd like it if I didn't have to work out why OgreI's are much more likely to do this thank OgreII's......that should be a dev job! I'd like it if we could be told of the dev's intentions, not just 'hey, we're looking into it' but 'we think drones need fixing and we've not got round to it yet', 'we think drones need a nerf', or 'we think they'll be fine if we ignore them'. Fighters I'm no expert on - but drones.........drones I know, and I know a lot of Gallente friends (and others) are making accurate and constructive comments about the problems with them. Having a HP increase in line with the rest of everything else will prevent our nice T2 drones turning into expensive popcorn - there isn't any other ammo on the market that costs up to 2.5m ISK per round.
Thanks for listening devs - we do appreciate it and the hard work that's gone into Kali.
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2006.11.06 04:34:00 -
[118]
Originally by: El'jonson Basically what all drone specialists want is for drones to be treated as anoughter 'full' weapon system, instead of the surport weapon that most people see them as.
Drones need to be able to last longer in a fight, wether this is through more hp or higher resists or decreasing their sig radius so they are harder to hit.
The bugs with the drones/fighters need fixing seriously its getting beyond a joke when a guy flying a carrier gets dropped by the server and loses all his fighters, this should of been sorted before carrier were released and a year on (nearly) its still broke.
In line with drones being treated as a full weapon system they need more commands (that work), such as defend target etc like drone users have been asking for.
i very much agree with that atm drones feel like 3/4 of a primary weapons system and in this respect they are holding gallante back in the sense of their background story Gallante are meant to use drones,unleash swarms of drones,perhaps even disposable drones that when they get shot down the ship drops another to replace it every gallante ship should have a large drone bay because its what gallante do,if it needs balancing perhaps drone "slots" so while an ishkur might have a huge drone bay it would never launch a heavy drone because it didnt have a heavy drone slot atm ccp appears to try and control what drones can be used by limiting the drone bay itself which for want of a better word is "ungallante" for example the myrmidon with its 100 m3 bay will clearly not field 5 heavys so why not give it a 250m3 bay with only 4 heavy slots so the end result would be the same but it would be a real drone ship
on the subject of leaving drones behind when you warp out.. how bad would it be if drones warped with the controling ship? after all you dont mysteriously leave your turrets behind when you warp out
Drones need alot of work imo both in their combat ability and their control interface but there is also great potential and they are a unique form of combat i will reseve judgement on how they will or wont be gimped after kali but i have just spent a long time specializing in drones and if i log on after the patch and find i have just wasted all that time i will be most unamused
pls dont make my drone specialist useless ccp
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Thayder
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Posted - 2006.11.06 11:25:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Temo Jick How about we just boost drone armor and structure but not shields? that way drone users like myself, dont gain a bigger scoop to repair advantage but we also dont suffer quite so much from longer combat time?
nuff said.
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Caya
Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.06 12:22:00 -
[120]
One thing i would very like to see about drones and fighters is chance to see their actual stats modified by skills, mods etc...
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Sadist
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.06 13:13:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Oveur Tux has been considering it, I wouldn't be surprised if he improves drones a bit, but we're still looking at playtesting feedback from Singularity in general before doing any major updates.
You mean listenting to all the caldari whiners that don't like to let go of their iwin buttons? òòòòòòòòòòòò
VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.06 14:35:00 -
[122]
The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.06 14:59:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
I agree with he has to say
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:30:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
Pretty much sums it up. /signed -----------------------------------------------
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Kaden Seer
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:16:00 -
[125]
Yes.
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Young DrPhil
Caldari A Place for Valen
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:31:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
SIGNED,SIGNED,SIGNED,SIGNED,SIGNED,SIGNED/
|
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 17:03:00 -
[127]
/Signed
- A more complete and coherant version of what I said earlier in the topic! Good job!
|
Mokojn
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 18:57:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Perfect, I agree with everything here. This sums up the majority of the problems and it seems clear no developers care for drones. We are nowhere near as powerful as turret users. We should be matched.
|
Serendipity007
X.T.R Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 20:43:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Serendipity007 on 06/11/2006 20:46:20
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
I agree wholeheartedly. Sums up the drone problems quite well. I would LOVE to see buttons in the drone list similar to those that are in the new gang list. The "I need Cap" type buttons. Those would be absolutely perfect to put a "Attack Target" or "Defend Me" or "Defend Target" or "Hold Position" or even all of them!
Oh, and I absolutely LOVE the idea of a "Bomber" type fighter. Make it slow but powerful, and only good against other Cap Ships.
Please fix the drones/fighters! They are a big part of what sets EvE apart from other space sims. ___________________________________________________ "I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: The Original Series |
Vitalunus
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 22:16:00 -
[130]
SignedŠ
We need more t2 bpos if i lose my berserkers t2 and hammers t2 and ogre t2 in impass i dont have where to buy new drones.
|
|
Nizdaar
Gallente GalacTECH Unlimited
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 22:28:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
Agreed.
If anyone is bored and wants to be amused, load up 5 x drone navigation computers, warrior drones and a jet can. Sick the warriors on the jetcan and watch as they flail about, never hitting it.
They approach the can at roughly 15km/sec though!
A way to make drones hot just like weapons would be nice. Nothing is worse than when in a laggy fight you have to wait extra time for the lock, then extra time for your drones to move.
|
Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 22:28:00 -
[132]
HOLY FRIGGIN' SIGNED, BATMAN!!! I could not agree more. Drones need a little TLC to remain a viable weapons system.
And nerfing them out of the game would really, imho, be a tragic loss. Not only are they a truly unique style of combat, but they give a fighting chance to us players not blessed with 25 perception and 23 Willpower. Diversity of game play is a good thing.
Lastly, I want to revisit the RMR math that was supposed to allow 5 drones to do as much damage as a fully decked out pre-RMR dominix...
- previously, domi could deploy 15 drones. After RMR only 5. - Drone interfacing skill at 5 (20% per lev) gives 100% bonus, or doubles drone damage. This makes 5 drones equal to 10. - Battleships skill used to allow domi to deploy 1 drone per level. (right?.. maybe i dont remember because i didn't play the game then or something). Therefore, the drone damage/hp bonus of the battleships skill should also be 20%, allowing the 5 remaining drones to gain the power of an additional 5 drones (at lvl 5).
Battleships skill bonus (5 * 20% = 100%) Drone interfacing skill (5 * 20% = 100%) __________________________________________ total bonus is 200%, or 3 times base damage
The way it is now (10% bonus per bs lvl), results in the equivelent damage of 12.5 drones. Am I right here?
I would be happy if someone made sure my (simple) math and understanding that the bs bonus on the domi prior to RMR was +1 deployable drone.
Nihilion Saro
|
Sally
Caldari R.u.S.H. Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 00:47:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Nihilion Saro
- previously, domi could deploy 15 drones. After RMR only 5.
Therefore, the drone damage/hp bonus of the battleships skill should also be 20%, allowing the 5 3 times base damage
The way it is now (10% bonus per bs lvl), results in the equivelent damage of 12.5 drones. Am I right here?
I would be happy if someone made sure my (simple) math and understanding that the bs bonus on the domi prior to RMR was +1 deployable drone (I'm actually not completely sure about that because I didn't play then).
Nihilion Saro
Watch the hands: Before RMR: Domi could deploy 15 drones, each drone could do say 20 DPS = 300 DPS. After RMR: Domi could deploy 5 drones, each drone do 2*1.5 = 3 times pre-RMR damage = 300 DPS. Got it? -- Stories: #1 --
|
Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 05:49:00 -
[134]
So are the skill bonuses compounded, or are they just totaled and that calculated? I mean, you have a 100% (2x) bonus with drone interfacing, and a 50% (1.5x) bonus for battleships...
So is it calculated like this: x = base damage
x * 2 * 1.5 = 3x
or is it
100%+50% (2.5x)
??
|
Triss S'Jet
Gallente MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 12:55:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
/SIGNED
Devs read this post please!!
|
Matori Kar
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:47:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
/SIGNED
|
Kirive
Gallente Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:58:00 -
[137]
Incidentally, can you guys please fix the Hammerhead I and Hobgoblin II models? They've had the wrong model ever since i reactivated my account months ago - should be a simple thing to fix.
|
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Forces of Freedom
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 14:44:00 -
[138]
Great list of the current drone issues; also would be nice to see how much damage your drones are doing... ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 16:10:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Kirive Incidentally, can you guys please fix the Hammerhead I and Hobgoblin II models? They've had the wrong model ever since i reactivated my account months ago - should be a simple thing to fix.
Extremely seconded. This one little thing probably ****es me off more than any of the other 100's of bugs. -----------------------------------------------
|
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:37:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 07/11/2006 18:40:40 Apparently my post resonated with other drone users. I've posted somewhat like this before on these forums. Unfortunately, requests for 'drone-love' never seems to resonate with CCP. Even in this thread we've got what we always get: "We sure would like to do something but we're really too busy doing other stuff right now."
I can't help but feel that drones will always be on the bottom of the list. Maybe CCP don't like drones, maybe they don't use them themselves. As said above, this is a shame. The ability to use drones as a weapon makes EVE pretty unique among space-games and even in the state it is now, it has great potential.
Frankly I don't understand it. Things like the model mix-up between the hammerhead and hobgoblin sure aren't game breakers, but they surely are very easy to fix and have been in-game for ages. I recognise that the combination of two complex dynamic algorithms (evasion- and flock-algorithm) is difficult to get right 100% of the time, but, again, the effect on drones have been in-game, well-described, and much whined over for ages. And make no mistake, that problem is a game breaker for drone users.
I personally don't like to whine but maybe that is the problem here. Either drone users have given up on expecting changes and just bash on regardless (like I do), or, maybe more likely, drone users have given up on drones and have joined the legions of missile spammers.
At any rate, whenever I see a lot of attention on a subject on the forums (some may call it whinage), CCP reacts to that and things happen. Maybe all drone users should come together as well and draw some attention to the drone problems. Maybe then something will happen as well.
I'm sure at a loss of what else to do. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
|
Aki Yamato
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 20:34:00 -
[141]
Im not going to flaming about drones HP etc, but i thing drones could recive another kind of upgrade. For example formations. Currect chaostic movement of drones looks wierd for me, I rather see drones/ fighters fly in formations like fighters i H2 do. There could be many different formations each beoosting or reducing som of drone capabilities as speed, attack, defence, jamm... You know what i mean, attack formation increase attack and decrease defence...
Drone flight formation could be handled as one flying object insted of many (reduce lag).
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
Jennie moo
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 01:57:00 -
[142]
Drones Yes! Fighters yes. Allso fighter drones should have some kind of shield or Armor booster.. After all they are not like normal drones > Single-pilot combat vessels, deployable from carriers and motherships.
Do u like PINK? |
Pan Crastus
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 03:03:00 -
[143]
What I miss most is that you still can't see the drones' real stats after skills/modules anywhere (using "show info").
|
lpha centurion
Confrerie des ombres
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 05:44:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
/Signed !!!!
|
Admiral Pieg
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 15:36:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
excellent post, sums it up nicely. Listen to this guy ccp ______________
Pod from above. |
Mothmar Friedsquid
Gallente Spacley Sprockets Shipyards
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 18:22:00 -
[146]
I agree with the statements made, but have one qualm:
Drones just getting blanket increases as requested are going to be more powerful and not require any slots. I'd personally like a more varied and powerful set of mods available for drones on a lot of the stuff mentioned, and a small increase in the base power of drones. But asking for ALL of it kinda asks for the nerf bat to come out in a few months. Mothmar Friedsquid. Because SWG sucked and EVE doesn't require my entire life.
Currently running missions with Spacely Sprockets, Inc. We're recruiting mature and intelligent players. |
Jasai Kameron
The Palladium Union
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 18:34:00 -
[147]
Quote: Apparently my post resonated with other drone users. I've posted somewhat like this before on these forums. Unfortunately, requests for 'drone-love' never seems to resonate with CCP. Even in this thread we've got what we always get: "We sure would like to do something but we're really too busy doing other stuff right now."
Of course it resonates with drone users. Now go see if it resonates with non-drone users. I think the answer would be a big no! And of course CCP have ignored requests for "drone-love". Drone ships have been ridiculously overpowered since RMR.
You've basically just given us a huge long list of ways to make drone ships virtually indestructible. Increase HP AND decrease sig radius??? Instant-target lock so you can remote rep them with ease? How exactly would a battleship ever destroy a drone?
And the drones ability to be destroyed is one of their only disadvantages in 1 v 1 pvp. They have no fitting requirements. They have insane tracking. They take up no cap.
Can't you see the huge advantages drones give? Now I personally like these advantages (I'm a drone user). I think they are a really neat weapon system, but I also know that the advantages have to be weighed out by disadvantages.
Now, certainly, some of the things on your list should be looked at. Repairing the bugs which effect drones is a big yes.
But tell me, why exactly should I be able to lock my own drone to repair it faster than my opponent can lock it to destroy it? To do so makes it much easier for me to defend than for him to attack.
Then tell me why exactly I should be able to fly my drones around with impunity (smartbombs notwithstanding) while I use ALL my cap and fittings for tank, while my opponent divides his capacitor and fittings between defence and attack, always running a risk of running out in one area or another?
Why exactly should I be able to fit drones which can kill almost anything in EVE (5 heavies for bs and cruisers and then 5 lights for ceptors and frigs) but my opponent has to fit what, a horribly-gimped-against-anything-else smartbomb setup to beat me? Why do I get to wander around EVE pwning all when every other ship has to choose its fights? And how can you even think of increasing my tanking capabilities even more by allowing me to have a huge tank on my Dom PLUS armor repairing drones adding to my power?
Now... the answer to this, I think, is that its silly not to. Drones are small, therefore they should have a small sig. If a Drone can target any other ship to repair it, it could easily target its parent ship. If a Drone "wants" to allow itself to be targetted, so as to be repaired, it would be easy to put a permanent homing interface in.
This is all perfectly true.
But it would horribly unbalance the game, making drone ships horribly overpowered. So let's just accept that this game is FANTASY. As one poster mentioned recently, we've even worked out how to make sound travel in space!
So stop trying to make it make perfect logical sense and instead, look to making it balanced and fun!
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lpha centurion
Confrerie des ombres
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:57:00 -
[148]
Edited by: lpha centurion on 08/11/2006 20:00:51 Edited by: lpha centurion on 08/11/2006 20:00:11 Edited by: lpha centurion on 08/11/2006 19:58:35 (first i'm sorry but i have some difficulties to speak english : i'm a french gamer ^_^)
I don't think that drones are so powerful, Compare a battle between a raven with cruises missiles and a dominix with heavy drones.
I think that the winner will probably be the raven, why ? => The drones can be destroyed.
And other example, when you are on a lvl4 mission. If your drones are locked by the npc, they will be probably destroyed because they are slow. I don't think that missiles (ok there are defender but it's different), lasers and hybrid can be destroyed
So there are differents way : -> Increasing the drone speed -> Increasing their HP -> Increasing their damage
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.08 21:24:00 -
[149]
Well, Jasai Kameron, you make a number of interesting points, allow me to reply:
- In increasing the HP and reducing the signature radius, a certain balance should be found, I agree. I'm not advocating making drones indestructable. Although that would be popular with drone users no doubt, that would unbalance the game, thus inviting a good swing of the nerfbat. But since we're all testing on Sisi, why don't we start with a reduction in the signature radius (for which there is some solid argument) and work from there? I'm of the opinion that drones now are too vulnerable, and it is plain to see that with the HP increase, something needs to be done for drones and especially fighters.
- You take it that with an insta-lock on drones, they will become indestructable. I beg to differ. Remote armour reppers have long cycles, take a high slot with decent requirements (which gimps your setup for other purposes) and have limited range. These things combine to give any opponent a number of options to counter drones (they have them now already in fact), the most important being: range (from the mothership, not the drone). An opponent keeping out of range while attacking the drones means no remote repair for the drones. Also, given the DPS of most ships out there (especially PvP ships), compared to the HP of drones (even when increased) means that it will still be difficult to maintain drones in the field. Also, remember that to be repaired while out of range also means that the drone user has to pull them out of the fight, losing DPS (which with drones isn't very high to begin with). Insta-lock on drones only increases the chance that drones can be maintained, but only under specific circumstances, most notably the ones under which most drones prefer not to fight (close range). I don't think we're talking I-WIN button here.
- You claim the suggested changes means only smartbombs can kill drones. Nothing is further from the truth. The suggested changes do not invalidate any of the options open to players now. Missiles still always hit, target painters still work, webbers are still useful to slaughter drones. And with the longer engagement times as a result of HP increase, opponents will have time to use all these options. The suggested changes do boost drones, I do not denying that, but it is a boost desperately needed in light of the HP increase, and in my opinion long overdue.
- You mention that when drones can be used to boost shields or armour on the mothership, this will make drone users' ships indestructable. I think I've already covered the destructability of drones above, so I limit myself to the following two remarks:
- this is an option open to the opponent as well. Many ships have at least some sort of drone bay; and
- every drone engaged in 'healing' isn't attacking and thus not contributing to DPS, gimping your attack.
The self repair for drones is a double edged sword. Sure, it gives drone boats some extra flexibility in defense, but it comes at a great cost, lost of offensive capability. I think this is great actually, it gives the player options to balance out.
This game maybe fantasy, but the fantastic fact remains that the weaponsystem drones has both the least DPS and the buggiest implementation of all while providing the least rewards for the biggest risks. I think CCP wants to keep the DPS of drones the way it is, so can we then have a better implementation and a bit more flexibility?
Common, you know it makes sense -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Jasai Kameron
The Palladium Union
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Posted - 2006.11.08 21:56:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Jasai Kameron on 08/11/2006 21:58:04
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
This game maybe fantasy, but the fantastic fact remains that the weaponsystem drones has both the least DPS and the buggiest implementation of all while providing the least rewards for the biggest risks. I think CCP wants to keep the DPS of drones the way it is, so can we then have a better implementation and a bit more flexibility?
Common, you know it makes sense
*laughs* Well... it would certainly be nice. I completely agree that the bugs should be removed and, like you, I'd prefer a sig radius reduction to an hp bonus, at least to begin with. It makes more sense given the size of drones. And I further agree that one needs to apply changes slowly, working from the results that one gets.
I just think you underestimate drones a little. The fact that one can put all ones pg and cpu towards tank or EW on a dedicated drone ship and the fact that one doesn't have to worry about capacitor or tracking are really huge advantages.
Try flying a blasterthron in combat and worrying constantly about capacitor and capacitor boooters and tracking and transversal velocity and normal velocity and sig radius and... who knows what else. The Dom far outclasses the Blasterthron in 1 v 1 even though it's DPS is far lower, due to the fact that it's tank can be so powerful and it never has to worry about running out of cap. Admittedly EW and Nosf have played a huge part and there will be nerfs coming along for those, but I honestly just think that this brings the Dominix et al in line with other ships, rather than weakening them completely.
I feel that increasing hp AND decreasing sig radius to the levels you suggested would be a mistake. Would a bs turret even be able to hit a heavy drone with the sig radius you proposed?
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.08 23:30:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Nihilion Saro on 09/11/2006 05:54:16 Edited by: Nihilion Saro on 08/11/2006 23:30:53
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
The Dom far outclasses the Blasterthron in 1 v 1 even though it's DPS is far lower, due to the fact that it's tank can be so powerful and it never has to worry about running out of cap. Admittedly EW and Nosf have played a huge part and there will be nerfs coming along for those, but I honestly just think that this brings the Dominix et al in line with other ships, rather than weakening them completely.
I went 1v1 against a blasterthron with t2 neuts the other day in my domi and got thoroughly omfgpwned. I didn't have my ew equipped because of the type of op i was on, but the experience was telling of what the situation will be like in Kali when EW is totally nerfed off of domis. Without the brief respites from the 1000+ dps damage i'm sucking down from that blasterthron, there is NFW i'm going to win with 400dps t2 ogres, no matter what my cap or low-slots are doing.
And also,the discussion about being able to target oneself with repair drones brings an important consideration...
The ability to target ourselves with repair drones is a greater advantage for players who don't use their drones as a main offensive system.
Imagine fighting a raven with 2lrg,2med, and 1 light sheild repair drone on him!! Now what advantage is this to you in your dominix?? You can't deploy your repair drones because you already have your fighting drones deployed.
To fix this, CCP should make the drone bays on none gallente ships (or perhaps all non-drone specialized boats) smaller. Just like they made it so only specialized EW ships like the scorpion and blackbird can use EW. Why not make it so only drone boats can use drones???
Comments?
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Krakkan
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Posted - 2006.11.09 09:14:00 -
[152]
hotkeys for drone meny is a nono otherwice its all good almost the whole thread is good with suggestions. lets hope CCP can fix some of these things for kali2 atleast, and that i can get my drones on a bug-free diet in kali1.
i think CCP are against hotkeys for anything other then options and module slots, but since drones should be counted as a weapon system i understand why some wants hotkeys for them. but i kinda like not having hotkeys for drones and dont think they should have hotkeys unless they remove drone bays and make drone bays high slot modules and used more like normal weapons.. but i hope that never happens!
Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
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Mysterlee
Gallente 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.09 13:23:00 -
[153]
Not sure if this has been mentioned, I dont have time to read this whole topic, but could drone hp be moved to a single horizontal line the same as in the new gang window?
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Ace101
Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.09 19:36:00 -
[154]
remote rep drones go VERY VERY slowly when told to return to ship... seriously wtf!?
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JP Moregain
Gallente EVE Reserve Bank
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Posted - 2006.11.09 21:50:00 -
[155]
Aren't drones already nerfed enough by having AI that was clearly ported over from a Sony AIBO?
JP
http://www.evereserve.com |
Riley Craven
Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:21:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 09/11/2006 23:24:42
Originally by: Jasai Kameron Would a bs turret even be able to hit a heavy drone with the sig radius you proposed?
I think that maybe you are fogetting the fact that drones also orbit close to you and a pretty good clip.
Frankly something that close to you should be hard to hit with a bs sized turret. There're drones and they're small for christs sake, even hvies are alot smaller than fighters
BTW fighters are supposed to be frigates in size (even tho they cost the ammount of battlecruisers, which is pretty ***)
The point I am trying to make is that even frigates are a ***** to hit with bs guns when they are up close, what makes you think that something alot smaller than a frigate should be hittable?
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Russo
Amarria Auxilia The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.10 05:56:00 -
[157]
Currently carriers cannot take on other capital ships. Their fighters simply dont do enough damage to take out a dreadnought. Why not? In reality the most devastating piece of hardware on the sea is the air craft carrier, not a battleship or any super battleship type ship. It is the carrier because of its ability to project firepower great distances.
I propose we introduce a new class of fighter that isnt a fighter at all, but instead a true torpedo bomber. The torpedo bombers would carry enough firepower to be able to, if skills are very good, slowly break the tank of a dreadnought.
The torpedo bombers would have short range and would have to make attack runs on the ship for each torpedo deployed. After a few torps have been fired, they must re arm at the carrier for a little while and then get deployed once more to continue fighting.
They would be slower, but tougher than fighters, have limited weapon ammunition, and take more space in the ship. You would also have to train special skills for their deployment, and also skills to increase the speed of rearm and torpedo run speed.
These torpedos are specifically tailored to kill capital ships and would deal only a little more damage against battleships than normal torps. Also because of their need to make a "run" and fly straight at the target, and their larger size, they could be shot down much more easily by battleships because they could be easily tracked by battleship weapons while making this straight approach.
This torpedo bombers are not meant to be dreadnought wtfpwn machines, but should add enough firepower to a carrier to make it so when torpedo bombers are deployed the dreadnought makes **** certain he has enough fuel to stay in siege mode long enough to nail the carrier.
TORPEDO BOMBERS HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia XL pod for an XL personality
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Turtla
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Posted - 2006.11.10 07:49:00 -
[158]
I whould love to see them work something out of this bomber fighters idea. Don't want to make the fighters OMG THE KILL ALL, but this whould be a nice idea
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qantua gnartians
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.10 13:51:00 -
[159]
I think i would settle for a fix of the stupid UI and behavior of drones they can be almost imposible to use from time to time, with their completely random behavior, i need to tell them what target they are suposed to atack with 5-10seconds intervals, to prevent that it's like flying a blasterboat with autorepeat turned off.
The UI given that you actually need to micromanage your drones, is really really bad, no hot keys i have to use drop down menu's from the bottom of my overview, after ive cliked the right target that they should attack wry cant i do it in one step.
Remember that drones dont replace all the other things you do in battle, you will have 5+ mods to be targeted at the oponent, that needs to be in range and so on.
About the balance well i dont think drones need more HP, just lower sig radius and higher speed(espacially returning), they are Turrets with a MWD fitted, wry do they have to be slowish and big compared to ships that have the even bigger weapons fitted?
And for once you can make a change that dont break any RPing concerns since it can be just a software upgrade to the controling computer system.
Abaut balance well you should be able to kill drones but not with weapons that barely is capable of hitting frigates, anti-drone should be something you train for.
Drone boats are fragile but powerfull, in their particular nice, witch seams to be the thing with all gallente ships, dont just focus on the power-side it comes at really painfull costs espacially to us drone users.
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Jasai Kameron
The Palladium Union
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Posted - 2006.11.10 17:09:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 09/11/2006 23:24:42 I think that maybe you are fogetting the fact that drones also orbit close to you and a pretty good clip.
Frankly something that close to you should be hard to hit with a bs sized turret. There're drones and they're small for christs sake, even hvies are alot smaller than fighters
BTW fighters are supposed to be frigates in size (even tho they cost the ammount of battlecruisers, which is pretty ***)
The point I am trying to make is that even frigates are a ***** to hit with bs guns when they are up close, what makes you think that something alot smaller than a frigate should be hittable?
We're making different points. I know that drones are small and orbit fast and close to the target. Now, despite this, CCP have made their sig radius stupidly big so that, at the moment, bigger turrets have a chance of hitting them and cruise missles will also hit and do reasonable damage. Why have they done this?
Because it is one of the few weaknesses of drones that they can be shot down. This feature balances out other drone strengths, like the fact that they take no cap, have superb tracking, take up no powergrid, use up no CPU, can choose damage type and are inherently flexible (i.e. EW drones).
Yes, it's unrealistic. But if we removed every feature from EVE that was unrealistic, we'd have a very different game and a much less popular one, in my opinion.
Balance should be our primary concern.
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.11 17:45:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Nihilion Saro on 11/11/2006 17:46:06 Choosing damage type with drones isn't that easy. Check out the damage multipliers. Unless some ship has a stupidly low EM resistance, thermals will always do more damage than EM type drones. And since drones only respond to commands half the time, its not like we can just change damage types in battle anyway.
And if you've been reading this post at all, there should be no doubt in your mind that sig radius ARE NOT a drone's only weakness. BS!
*They are comparitively weak.
*Pathetic AI and frequently don't respond to commands.
*No insta-hitting.
*Are easily lost.
*Are expensive.
*Are not able to do damage until 10-30 seconds into the engagment, depending on range.
*Have limited range.
Drone users do not have their cake, and eat it to. And besides, just about any battleship can carry a squad of 5 mediums t2 drones, in addition to their main armament. So its not like one race is getting a huge benefit over another. The problem is that exclusive drone ships are nerfed.
I say:
1) fix the bugs (first order of business) 2) drop sig radius and/or increase HP 3) Fix the friggin' bugs!!! 4) decrease the size of drone bays on non-gallente ships (unless something is designed as drone carrier, like a Pilgrim/curse/Arb). 5) allow us to target ourselves with drones 6) be able to insta-lock our own drones
And for the love of everything holy, at least FIX THE FRIGGIN' BUGS!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.11 20:34:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Nihilion Saro Edited by: Nihilion Saro on 11/11/2006 17:46:06 Choosing damage type with drones isn't that easy. Check out the damage multipliers. Unless some ship has a stupidly low EM resistance, thermals will always do more damage than EM type drones. And since drones only respond to commands half the time, its not like we can just change damage types in battle anyway.
And if you've been reading this post at all, there should be no doubt in your mind that sig radius ARE NOT a drone's only weakness. BS!
*They are comparitively weak.
*Pathetic AI and frequently don't respond to commands.
*No insta-hitting.
*Are easily lost.
*Are expensive.
*Are not able to do damage until 10-30 seconds into the engagment, depending on range.
*Have limited range.
Drone users do not have their cake, and eat it to. And besides, just about any battleship can carry a squad of 5 mediums t2 drones, in addition to their main armament. So its not like one race is getting a huge benefit over another. The problem is that exclusive drone ships are nerfed.
I say:
1) fix the bugs (first order of business) 2) drop sig radius and/or increase HP 3) Fix the friggin' bugs!!! 4) decrease the size of drone bays on non-gallente ships (unless something is designed as drone carrier, like a Pilgrim/curse/Arb). 5) allow us to target ourselves with drones 6) be able to insta-lock our own drones
And for the love of everything holy, at least FIX THE FRIGGIN' BUGS!
Raises another interesting point- why exactly do the 5 types of drones have different damage modifiers? It seems non sensical to have 4 identical drones who do different damage types, but with one type simply BETTER, full stop. Its not even like the other ones have any redeeming qualities...........slightly different speed ftw, w00t! -----------------------------------------------
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Jasai Kameron
The Palladium Union
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Posted - 2006.11.12 01:27:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Nihilion Saro *They are comparitively weak.
*Pathetic AI and frequently don't respond to commands.
*No insta-hitting.
*Are easily lost.
*Are expensive.
*Are not able to do damage until 10-30 seconds into the engagment, depending on range.
*Have limited range.
...
And for the love of everything holy, at least FIX THE FRIGGIN' BUGS!
Admittedly I'm drunk right now, but I'm pretty certain you've duplicated points.
No insta-hitting is the same point as not doing damage until 10-30 seconds, I'm pretty sure. Because after 10-30 seconds, it is insta-hitting.
Comparitively weak? Do you mean weak in DPS?
Yes, they are easily lost if you run away. If you don't run away, they are quite hard to lose (and would be even harder to lose if you reduced their sig radius as much as you suggest).
All tech 2 weapons and ammo are expensive.
All weapons have limited range. For a short range weapon, drones have very good range. In warp disruptor range, they are pretty good. I admit you aren't going to be able to use them for sniping, but then they aren't designed to be used for sniping.
Yes, the bugs are a problem. I quite agree that they should be fixed. But it's not a weakness in the way they are intended to work, but a weakness in the way they are being implemented.
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Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.12 06:35:00 -
[164]
Yup, you're drunk. I think insta-hitting is like what hybrids, projectiles, and energy weapons do. Missiles do not insta-hit. Yes, drones do insta-hit once they make their way over to an enemy, but that can be like 30 seconds into a fight. That means that the drone user has already been taking damage for that time, but has yet to do damage to the enemy. That's what I meant.
And i never suggested a metric by which the sig radius should be reduced. Must have been someone else.
And yes, they do have limited range, though not limited in the same way. Combat drone damage is optimized up close. Again, because of the time it takes for the drones to reach the target. Come on, using heavy drones at 30 km is tough.
For the pilot who uses drones as a secondary weapon system, this isn't an issue. But for drone purists, its a challenge.
How about we give more bonuses to drone ships?
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Barony
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.12 11:28:00 -
[165]
I have to admit im an adamant user of drones and really do love them, finding them incredibly useful tools as they currently are.
What i dont get is why other drone users cannot see the reason why drones have a massive signature radius for their size.
DRONES ARE IN PERMENANT MWD
Now last time i checked anything that uses MWD gets what? a massive signature radius penalty?
Why should drones be excluded from something every single other vessel in the game is effected by?
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.12 12:05:00 -
[166]
Edited by: voidvim on 12/11/2006 12:07:21
Originally by: Barony
DRONES ARE IN PERMENANT MWD
Now last time i checked anything that uses MWD gets what? a massive signature radius penalty?
Why should drones be excluded from something every single other vessel in the game is effected by?
good point - But they don't MWD back to you when you recall them so I don't think they MWD all the time just when they go to attack their target. Should a drones sig radiossignature radius drop when the slow boat back to their controler ?
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Barony
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.12 12:18:00 -
[167]
Originally by: voidvim Edited by: voidvim on 12/11/2006 12:11:46
Originally by: Barony
DRONES ARE IN PERMENANT MWD
Now last time i checked anything that uses MWD gets what? a massive signature radius penalty?
Why should drones be excluded from something every single other vessel in the game is effected by?
good point - But they don't MWD back to you when you recall them so I don't think they MWD all the time just when they go to attack their target. Should a drones signature radius drop when their slow boating back to their controler ?
True, but id wager thats a bug rather then an intended mechanic such as the MWD signatures.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.12 12:19:00 -
[168]
Edited by: voidvim on 12/11/2006 12:19:46
Originally by: Barony True, but id wager thats a bug rather then an intended mechanic such as the MWD signatures.
I'm sure most if not all drone users would like drones to mwd back to them.
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Jasai Kameron
The Palladium Union
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Posted - 2006.11.12 16:28:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Nihilion Saro Yup, you're drunk.
That told me.
Anyway, the main thing is that with the current hp boost drones are going to be underpowered because ships will have too long to destroy them, so either a sig radius decrease or a hardpoints increase is desperately needed.
Added to this, bugs need to be fixed and the UI is definitely worth looking at. Those are all things that we are agreed on, I think.
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Jemhar
Decadence. Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.12 17:21:00 -
[170]
i wish to see the complete attributes of my drones i miss it since i play with drones
is it normal that 4 small and 1 med ecm drone can jamming a raven ?
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Morkus Rex
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2006.11.13 10:39:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
/Signed!!
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Archi Viralfury
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.13 14:42:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
I dont Generally agree with Signing, but as a dedicated drone specialist i have no option but to sign this and beg for the bugs to be fixed for one and for all.
Im not even interested in a HP increase. A signature radius decrease would be a much needed change (although not too much decrease)
\SIGNED
|
Abbadon Karis
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 17:24:00 -
[173]
/signed
Didn't think we would have to tell them, bur rather safe then sorry. When we hang the capatalists, they will sell us the ropes we use. -Josef Stalin |
Max Hardcase
Art of War Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 22:04:00 -
[174]
How about increasing the bonus that the drone durability skill gives ?
|
Matori Kar
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 12:28:00 -
[175]
Apart from Oveur posting in this thread in order to give it a gold bar (it was beginning to look like the bastard stepchild) has there been any official recognition/response to drone issues in kali at all?
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 12:30:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Matori Kar Apart from Oveur posting in this thread in order to give it a gold bar (it was beginning to look like the bastard stepchild) has there been any official recognition/response to drone issues in kali at all?
No. I was vaguely hoping Fan Fest might have yielded something but alas, it appears not...... -----------------------------------------------
|
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2006.11.14 13:47:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Matori Kar Apart from Oveur posting in this thread in order to give it a gold bar (it was beginning to look like the bastard stepchild) has there been any official recognition/response to drone issues in kali at all?
Nope, given the lack of response in general, I conclude that CCP simply do not care. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Selnix
Gallente Master Miners
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 03:46:00 -
[178]
Throughout this thread, people have made many convincing arguments both for and against improving combat drones. The most convincing of the arguments against is that drones require no capacitor, grid, or cpu to use, thus leaving the shipÆs systems open for other modules. Some of these people argue that drones are more of a secondary offense than a primary one, given that the ship using drones still has its full complement of high slots open. Since many of the people posting in favor of making changes that would favor the drone user say that they are drone *specialists*, I believe that the following might be an alternative that would at least bear some consideration.
I would like to suggest that drones be upgraded to the status of a primary offense. This could be accomplished by requiring a high-slot module be fitted for each drone that is to be controlled. These modules would come in sizes as turrets do and could have power and cpu requirements somewhat in line with those of hybrid weapons of the same size. As these modules would be taking the positions normally occupied by Drone Link Augmenter I units, it would be nice to have cruiser-sized controllers improve base drone control range by 20km and battleship-sized ones increase it by 40km. If such modules were implemented ANY pilot choosing to use drones, regardless of race, would do so knowing that they will comprise the entirety of their offense unless they chose to sacrifice numbers in order to fit a mix of weaponry. By linking a drone to a high-slot module, a single drone could be assigned to in much the same manner as torpedoes are loaded into launchers. When activated with an active target, the drones would attack it, when deactivated, they would return to the ship. If the active target is destroyed and you do not designate another, they would attack any ship that is aggressed, as they already do. Should a drone be destroyed, one of the same type would be linked to the controller if you have another in your bay.
With the introduction of drones as a primary offense the proposed improvements to drone sensor signature and hit points would be warranted. This would also warrant the ability to transfer drones from cargo to the drone bay, as you would essentially be reloading. Such a change could also serve to better balance drone craft with their counterparts if low-slot drone damage augmentations were available in the form of advanced targeting subroutines or whatever, allowing drones to accomplish critical hits like their turret counterparts. As it stands, a single perfect shot from a large blaster, missile or other primary weapon can hit for in excess of 1000 hit points. That Tech II drones only hit for a fraction of that would be an affront to the would-be drone specialist were there no means to accomplish something similar.
By now, I expect that many of my fellow Gallente are thinkingà OMGWTHBBQ!?!?! Dominix nerf! The specialized drone boats like the Domi, Ishtar, Vexor, and Ishkur would most likely need the addition of another high slot or two to accommodate non-drone modules (tractor beam, NOS, remote repair, etc). Reducing them to the point that they could fit nothing other than 5 drone controllers would in many cases spell the death of the vessel in certain situations. For mission running and the times I have PVPed in the Dominix, I have always resorted to drones as the entirety of my offense, with Nosferatu serving to offset my poor capacitor skills. As such, I would most definitely not support a change that would weaken drone ships. What I am trying to suggest is a way to turn drones into a true specialization that would help to keep the Dominix and other drone carriers viable once the coming changes to Nosferatu and ECM take place.
P.S. If this sounds stupid, IÆm blaming it on lack of sleep.
|
Protunia
Gallente Horadrim
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 06:55:00 -
[179]
two choices basically raise the HP or the Damage of drones.
Simple as that. My Character Stats |
Aphotic Raven
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 07:43:00 -
[180]
Also im hoping this has already been dealt with in kali.... but... In station, finding a ship among a few hundred items to repair is a pain in the ass... But as a drone user, if my prettys are all busted up i have to individually go through them to find which one is damaged and repair it.... I suggest: Different areas for repair of Ships, Drones and Items And/Or a bar/% showing the damage of those items, its way too time consuming at the moment. Thanks!
|
|
Aphotic Raven
|
Posted - 2006.11.15 07:48:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Barony I have to admit im an adamant user of drones and really do love them, finding them incredibly useful tools as they currently are.
What i dont get is why other drone users cannot see the reason why drones have a massive signature radius for their size.
DRONES ARE IN PERMENANT MWD
Now last time i checked anything that uses MWD gets what? a massive signature radius penalty?
Why should drones be excluded from something every single other vessel in the game is effected by?
Being caldari you're excused from knowing anything about drones or MWDs....
Yes their sig radius should be 550% when MWDing to target, but does it decrease when they stop MWDing to orbit? or when they craaaaawl back to your ship and get you killed because they are too slow?
and the sig radius displayed in drone info (and what other info is there for drones... its not like we can get accurate data anywhere in the game...) is a base ammount, i doubt it increases from this but it really should start tiny and become larger when they MWD and not when they are barely moving.....
Yes it needs a nerf, give the myrmidon an extra 15% drop in drone sig radius a level while we're on the subject... lets make drones better not more meh.
|
Taketa De
Gallente Seneca Federation Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 03:20:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
Would love this! --- The Advanced Drone Control Panel. |
Black Seraph
RONA Deepspace
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 09:33:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
This is the stuff right here, devs please listen to this poster. Drone hotkeys ftw - it makes NO sense to have to right click to do anything with the drones. I Don't Need Satan, I Have My Own Hell To Raise.
|
Turtla
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 10:38:00 -
[184]
Demm im afraid that Fighters will become just become crap with the HP boost
Well, they are easy to hit, they die rather fast, cost 20mill, will take forever to kill a BS now and are the only weapons that don't get any rigs to boost them(that i know about).
|
Cosmic Flame
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 12:42:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Cosmic Flame on 16/11/2006 12:42:15
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice.
No it wouldn't. That would allow an exploit like the one Zombies did a couple years ago in Yulai. If you are boosting an aggressing person you are helping him, and therefor subject to getting ganked by CONCORD. That has to be that way. Especially since atm if you use remote shield/energy/armor transfers you DO get killed by CONCORD as well.
Everything else, you're right on. Fighters returning at impulse speed when you recall them is just plain rediculous and irritating. You lose them all before they reach halfway to your ship These bugs almost seem like CCP WANTS them to exist. |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Forces of Freedom
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 15:00:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Cosmic Flame Edited by: Cosmic Flame on 16/11/2006 12:42:15
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice.
No it wouldn't. That would allow an exploit like the one Zombies did a couple years ago in Yulai. If you are boosting an aggressing person you are helping him, and therefor subject to getting ganked by CONCORD. That has to be that way. Especially since atm if you use remote shield/energy/armor transfers you DO get killed by CONCORD as well.
Everything else, you're right on. Fighters returning at impulse speed when you recall them is just plain rediculous and irritating. You lose them all before they reach halfway to your ship These bugs almost seem like CCP WANTS them to exist.
It should be fixed so that support drones can only be used inside a gang without CONCORD intervering, outside of gang = CONCORD intervention ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 09:42:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven Also im hoping this has already been dealt with in kali.... but... In station, finding a ship among a few hundred items to repair is a pain in the ass... But as a drone user, if my prettys are all busted up i have to individually go through them to find which one is damaged and repair it....
This has already been dealt with in Tranquility. When you enter the repair screen of the ship in which the drones are, you see the damage statuses of them and can repair them there - either one by one or by clicking the "Repair all" button. -- NMTZ forum |
Perani
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 10:25:00 -
[188]
Please allow logitstic drones to support the mothership. kthx.
|
Drutort
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.18 05:25:00 -
[189]
so far i havent seen any of the fixes, the fighters still crawl back, there hp or dmg or anything remotely to what this topic talks about has been done... attacking small objects with fighters is still the same result.. they cant hit things... i tried to attack a small bubble that only had maybe 2k per hp and they had a very hard time... im talking about 10 fighters+ which should be dealing something to 1k dps... but it took them over 1min or so to blow it up
this is just unacceptable for such things to exist in kali
|
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.18 10:25:00 -
[190]
Fix all the bugs stated in that one POST couple pages back. Allow Fighters to recieve the drone bonuses. Its a drone... its just manned. The drone/fighter hardware should be upgraded in a similar mannor that our ships are upgraded via skills.
Then... give the Nidhoggur a :
5% fighter damage and 5% fighter hitpoints per level
OR
12.5% maximum jump range per level
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
|
|
Dano Sarum
Giants in the Playground Black Flag Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.18 11:37:00 -
[191]
Drones are more then powerfull enough, its hardly like gallente ships lack offensive ability.
Personally one of the things im looking forward to in kali with the HP boost is actually being able to SURVIVE long enough to start popping drones during fights.
HP boost for drones and fighters is moronic.
Well actually maybe not fighters, drones is just lame though.
You shouldnt be able to take 1 ship with fighters and have them all survive, they are a support weapon not a primary means of offence.
It's great being Amarr, aint it? |
D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.18 12:48:00 -
[192]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 18/11/2006 12:49:20 if your turrets cost 20mil each and could be poped really easy you wouldnt be saying that ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
Chronojam
|
Posted - 2006.11.18 12:58:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
I agree with this man. Been wanting drone hotkeys for a while, for "attack this" and "come home" and "launch".. F1-10 keys plus control/alt/shift perhaps to control drones 1-10 would work nice.
Also I lost another 2 million Hammerhead 2 that had a mere 25% shield damage because it was flying back to bay from 30km at 500m/s (I keep velocity listed in my overview, it should've been going about 2km/s) instead of turning on its MWD. NPCs took their time to slowly lock it and follow it all the way home, until they blasted it about 5km out. Is this petitionable?
|
Katamarino
Blazing Angels Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.18 13:38:00 -
[194]
We really need to see the strength of EW drones (ECM, web, all of them) affected by drone interfacing, and the Dom/Vex/Arbie bonuses. Maybe halve the base stats, and then have them affected by these skills - the way it is now it's irksome that some guy with drones 5 and nothing else is just as effective as I am with these things with drone INTERFACING 5, but criminal that the Dom/Vex/Arbie +1 drone bonuses are completely nerfed on these thing.
Other EW systems are all improved if you have the relevant skills, so why not drones? The EW Drone skill ITSELF even has a bonus completely unrelated to the systems it's controlling, how can that be called anything other than ridiculous?
|
Matori Kar
|
Posted - 2006.11.18 21:02:00 -
[195]
Seems from what I can't read that our dear Devs are ignoring anything to do with drones
|
Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.19 04:03:00 -
[196]
honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they're just trying to phase out drones--maybe to just a small role in the game. I'm guessing they all thought it was a great idea on the drawing board, but they regret all the lag they cause. So their solution is not to fix any of the bugs and repeatedly nerf them until no one uses them anymore and everyone uses guns.
|
FileCop AI
Amarr Finite Horizon The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.11.19 22:36:00 -
[197]
sorry for not reading it all through based on my limited time with eve. But am I the only one for whom the drones won't react? I click engage target (npc) as I've done many times on TQ and they just remain idle.
FileCop AI Reformed pikie |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.11.19 23:50:00 -
[198]
Originally by: FileCop AI sorry for not reading it all through based on my limited time with eve. But am I the only one for whom the drones won't react? I click engage target (npc) as I've done many times on TQ and they just remain idle.
Have you checked if the target is within the range of the drones? Not your locking range but the range that your drones can act based on your skills (Scout drones in example). Maximum for this is 45 Km (Scout drones lv5).
As for the issue at hand someone posted a very well thought and constructed solution to the whole problem. I would like to ask the Devs to see and take some time to think that proposal. We don't want an I-WIN button, we need a viable weapon system that works satisfactory. At the moment it's not that good implemented.
------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
BustyBounty
Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 01:37:00 -
[199]
Edited by: BustyBounty on 20/11/2006 01:37:48 drones and fighters are indeed bugged or disabled , my fighters wont even attack someone 10km away from my carrier. tried assigned drones to someone else and they couldnt get them to attack either , beeing shot at doesnt cause the drones to auto attack like they do on tranq either..
not tested mining drones i was meant to earlyer but forgot , i expect they dont mine though ------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to. |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 11:44:00 -
[200]
I tried yesterday evening to use drones while testing the Myrmidon and they wouldn't attack. This has been reported on this forum as well and is apparently being looked at.
Thinking positively: this might mean that some work is being done on the drone/fighter code, who knows.
Note that the Myrmidon's drone bay is still way to small for a drone boat. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
|
D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:47:00 -
[201]
mining drones mine ,drones/fighters will attack npc in belts but not cans or players no matter where they are by the looks of it
------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
Nihilion Saro
Gallente The Imperial Commonwealth Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 16:02:00 -
[202]
Okay, CCP, i've given up on HP and sig radius changes. All I want for christmas is for you to fix the bugs. Just fix the bugs. I don't ask for anything more than what is already due us.
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:20:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane I tried yesterday evening to use drones while testing the Myrmidon and they wouldn't attack. This has been reported on this forum as well and is apparently being looked at.
Thinking positively: this might mean that some work is being done on the drone/fighter code, who knows.
Note that the Myrmidon's drone bay is still way to small for a drone boat.
I do hope you're right. It'd make my wee EVE Dreams come true, if we could have new drone AI in Revelations. That'd be the best gift of all -----------------------------------------------
|
Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:02:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
/SIGNED
We really had to come out screaming and kicking to get a big batch of drone fixes ~8months ago, so I really don't think drones are high on the list of things to fix.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Kiyano
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 04:39:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
/Signed. First thing i've ever written that about on these forums tbh but i couldn't agree more, even SOME of those improvements would be nice. The end result whatever the means needs to be drones surviving the extra time that fights go on due to HP increase. The target is simple, the means to getting there is the tricky part but i think this guy is definately on the right path.
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D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:12:00 -
[206]
fighters/drones seem to work now although i couldnt get them to attack an empty ship earlyer during my brief test , they did however attack a ship with a pilot onboard.
will need to find the time for more testing before i can submit a bug report. ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 13:30:00 -
[207]
Buttens:
1. Attack / Operate 2. Launch / Scoop 3. Return and orbit Note the small dubble arrows to hide the buttens.
This is what we droners need. A useful interface to be able to use our drones properly in combat. Select your drones below the overview pannel and then use the interface to direct your drones in combat. Also have quick-keys tied to the buttens to be able to use key bord aswell. 2 hands are better than one. Unfare that turret and missil users get that upper hand over the droen users.
Mabey add some more buttens: 1. Guard me. (To defend you or your target, aggressor will get attacked.) 2. Orbit (Orbit any target you assign the drones to) 3. Drone behavior
Guard setting, was mentioned earlier. Sounds like a good idea. To have the drones orbit you till something aggresses you.
We need different drone behaviour settings. ItÆs annoying to have them go attack whatever they want. Aggressive or passive, only those 2 settings. Currently they attack anything randomly. It would be nice to be able to set them to return to orbit after killing there assigned target. Also if they are set on aggressive it would be nice if they attacked as a group of drones and not individually. Currently they spread out thus not being able to do enough damage to kill anything.
IÆm not asking for much here. Especially the control interface, itÆs absolutely needed. In PvP you donÆt have time to right click and assign stuff. You need easy command keys. Split second commands make the difference.
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Admiral Pieg
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:25:00 -
[208]
**** xcom, i thought that was a picture from sis
very nicely done though, such a simple change would make drone users everywhere cry in joy. ______________
Pod from above. |
darkmancer
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:54:00 -
[209]
I wouldnt mind seeing a few changes to drones;
Allow logistics drones to target target the parent veichle though nerf them to repair similar amount of damage as a similar size drone can cause(take into account average resists) eg if a heavy drone does 50 dps armour rep reps 20 armour /sec.
Fix the drone bugs!
Reduce min reqs for fighter atm they're obscenly high. Slightly above frigates I could accept but they're currently around battlecruiser levels!
Allow fixing of drone structure/armour/shield inside the parent ship at the cost of cap.
From my experiance drones are already tough to take down and most the time not worth attacking. Fighters however may need a bump of hp though i've not had much experiance with them.
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hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 17:36:00 -
[210]
Well i see that us drone and fighter users are getting the shaft so far. Both still have not been changed. Guess the hp increase will not help carriers that much.
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Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 20:35:00 -
[211]
I hope a dev looks into the ideas posted in this thread. It seams they have been ignoring drones because they have more important things on there minds. Bugs are not exactly what are prioritized. They only want the game to look more appealing from the outsider. Even though they have lots of work to do on what they already got. They choose to add more ships and new feechers instead of bug hunting and balancing. Seriously drones have been around sense the beginning of the game and itÆs still bugged and has a crapy interface.
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Nir
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.22 22:20:00 -
[212]
I think Tuxford hasn't touched Heavy Drone HP yet in fear of unbalancing the Dominix. Dominix as is stands is going to be even better in Kali, so any more indirect boosts to it would tip it over the scales. Its a double edged sword, on the one hand nearly everyone uses drones to a greater or lesser extend, so a boost to drone HP seems in order. On the other, the current situation of the Dom having 2k+ HP Ogre IIs is just wrong.
I say lower the HP bonus on droneships from 10% to 5% HP/level. Then increase the HP of all drones and fighters by 50%. That way everyone who can use drones (Every Battleship, BCs and most Cruisers) sees some improvement here and everyone will be happy.
My 2 cents.
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Admiral Pieg
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 23:18:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Nir I think Tuxford hasn't touched Heavy Drone HP yet in fear of unbalancing the Dominix. Dominix as is stands is going to be even better in Kali, so any more indirect boosts to it would tip it over the scales. Its a double edged sword, on the one hand nearly everyone uses drones to a greater or lesser extend, so a boost to drone HP seems in order. On the other, the current situation of the Dom having 2k+ HP Ogre IIs is just wrong.
I say lower the HP bonus on droneships from 10% to 5% HP/level. Then increase the HP of all drones and fighters by 50%. That way everyone who can use drones (Every Battleship, BCs and most Cruisers) sees some improvement here and everyone will be happy.
My 2 cents.
^ you mean 25% right? And even then, i think it would unbalance things, as 25% off 1000 is less then 25% off 1250.
Lets say a drones hp now is 1000, with a domi thats 1500. If they bost all drones to 1250 base hp and reduce the domis bonus to 25% then the final result would be 1562.5 hp for the drone in kali. ______________
Pod from above. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.22 23:56:00 -
[214]
No HP boost, sig radius or skill changes in KALI to drones due to the problem mentioned below...Seems easily resolved to me.
PROBLEM: Drones being re-deployed quickly with full shields after being scooped.
SOLUTION: Have the dronebay slowly repair drones and make it so they cannot be re-launched until fully repaired.
PROS: Makes targetting drones viable, may entice drone ships to use remote repairs, allows for differences to passive dronebay repair rates to reflect better drone ships.
CONS: People need to be very careful when recalling drones. Poor drone AI is already a nuisance - delays for relaunch after repairs could play havoc.
Anything I'm missing here?
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships |
Selnix
Master Miners
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Posted - 2006.11.23 00:40:00 -
[215]
Quote: No HP boost, sig radius or skill changes in KALI to drones due to the problem mentioned below...Seems easily resolved to me.
PROBLEM: Drones being re-deployed quickly with full shields after being scooped.
SOLUTION: Have the dronebay slowly repair drones and make it so they cannot be re-launched until fully repaired.
PROS: Makes targetting drones viable, may entice drone ships to use remote repairs, allows for differences to passive dronebay repair rates to reflect better drone ships.
CONS: People need to be very careful when recalling drones. Poor drone AI is already a nuisance - delays for relaunch after repairs could play havoc.
Anything I'm missing here?
With drones only returning to the bay at standard speed in a straight line, a drone under fire is likely to die if you don't fight at blaster range. Also, a webbed drone is a dead drone 90% of the time if you are not close enoght to scoop it immediately. As both large shield transporters and large armor repairers only have 7-9km range, doing as you sggest would dictate the range of drone ships for them, regardless of the range of any ausiliary weapons that the person may be using, unless they see their 2m isk Hammerhead IIs as disposable.
Unrelated to the above, below is a link to a thread I started yesterday in response to all of the whining about overpowered drone ships. Within it is my idea of what I would like to see the drone interface changed to more or less. I added a few more pictures farther down in the thread in addition to the one in the first post. I'd appreciate any feedback that any of you might have regarding the interface, since I'm not sure if it really does look better of if I am just having too much caffiene or something.
Interface Idea
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.23 02:33:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Selnix
With drones only returning to the bay at standard speed in a straight line, a drone under fire is likely to die if you don't fight at blaster range. Also, a webbed drone is a dead drone 90% of the time if you are not close enoght to scoop it immediately. As both large shield transporters and large armor repairers only have 7-9km range, doing as you sggest would dictate the range of drone ships for them, regardless of the range of any ausiliary weapons that the person may be using, unless they see their 2m isk Hammerhead IIs as disposable.
I'm not going to repeat myself, but post 76 of this thread is how I feel about drones and what I would like buffed as drones do really needs fixing. However I just read somewhere that they will not get any more HP or be changed in Revelations due to the scooping/redeploy full shield issue. The above was my suggestion only in response to counter that reason.
Anyway - valid point about the remote rep range - perhaps a new remote drone repair mod with higher range is needed?
Regarding feedback on your interface - I've not read your whole thread yet, but it looks too cluttered with too many options for my taste. Xcom's on the previous page seems a better 'look' anyway. Cheers.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships |
Derick Stralen
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 03:22:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Derick Stralen on 23/11/2006 03:26:35
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
/\/\/\/\
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
Boy.. Where do I start? I want to use drones as a primary weapon.
For the other weapons you have small, medium, large, and captial. Drones do the same thing, almost. Except for the fact drones are broken, you have small, medium, heavy, and fighters. On the carrier they ARE the primary weapon. On smaller ships you also have that.
Some ships have greater room for drones, and lack the weapon bonuses that most ships have. For these ships the drones play the larger role. However, as previously stated, thier application and implementation in the game is flawed.
Now, I can not speak from personal experience. I am just getting into being a droner. I am speaking on what I read of others experiences, and the little that I do have.
Mostly my issue is - I want to be a droner. Isn't that what EVE is supposed to be about? But- There is a problem. I'm at the point where I'm ready to start skilling for drones, even with thier current limitations. But with Revelations comming, the next major version of the game, and the possibility that drones won't be fixed, I am really concerned.
Bring in to the picture how much I pay to play this. It costs me $$$ to play this.
This is not to say any of the effort in Revelatons isn't appreciated. I am REALLY looking forward to the Gag/Fleet changes. The HP increase has me excited. Scanning improvments have really been needed. But so do drones!
From what Ive read some problems have existed for years! Drones are a major part of the game. Just like Turrets, Missiles, EW, and all the other nuances that mke it fun and variety.
Please address these thingsin Revelations. This is where most of your efforts have been. When else would you, after having had years, finally fix these things?
I want to do drones. More principally, I want the assurance that if I go into a field, I don't enter into it only to find 2-3 months later the field I enetered into is bugged to heck. And most of all, I don't want to wait several more yars forit to be addressed.
DEVs, I beg you, please give sincere, %100 attention to this. Becuase, for the time it will take me to train what I have to train, I would like results.
Ths isn't a post on specifics, becuase those are just a means to an end. This is a post requesting action. I've seen devs more involved in other threads, and this one seem on the low end of the totem pole for some reason. When we can at least get you to decide to take action, I'm faithful that the specifics will be worked out. |
baaaaal
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 04:23:00 -
[218]
just because you can scoop/deploy drones doesnt mean fighters shouldnt get a hp boost , a carrier can hardly scoop them fast & half the time you dont know there under fire until they start poping
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Aphotic Raven
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 06:08:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Nir I think Tuxford hasn't touched Heavy Drone HP yet in fear of unbalancing the Dominix. Dominix as is stands is going to be even better in Kali, so any more indirect boosts to it would tip it over the scales. Its a double edged sword, on the one hand nearly everyone uses drones to a greater or lesser extend, so a boost to drone HP seems in order. On the other, the current situation of the Dom having 2k+ HP Ogre IIs is just wrong.
I say lower the HP bonus on droneships from 10% to 5% HP/level. Then increase the HP of all drones and fighters by 50%. That way everyone who can use drones (Every Battleship, BCs and most Cruisers) sees some improvement here and everyone will be happy.
My 2 cents.
Do domi nerfers ever get sick of being stupid... i sometimes wonder.... has anyone ever argued that the domi is in fact balanced given its terrible pg (when contrasted with tier 2 and 3 BS's) And have you come to the realisation that ECM domis will be at worst nerfed to all hell and at best non existant.
Drones are ****, i use them, i love them, but the AI driving them is terrible to the point of tears...
they need more HP or much more realistic sig radius's.
It has been argued that they always have their MWD on, then why are they so f'ing slow sometimes?
It has been argued that sig radius is to do with the communication signals being sent to the mothership... should we not then get a sig boost for gangs (yes.. nerf fat gank packs.. nerf them i say...)
I dont really care about drone HP or sig radius when compared to the AI. PLEASE devs just decide on the ships and tell everyone to STFU and then fix drones.. they weren't even working last time i was on the test server, its hard to test a myrmidon when its drones wont attack anything for any reason whatsoever.
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Hawk Fireblade
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Posted - 2006.11.23 08:13:00 -
[220]
The biggest thing needed for fighters is a saftey net where they redock upon a disco.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.23 11:11:00 -
[221]
Edited by: Patch86 on 23/11/2006 11:11:07
Originally by: Aphotic Raven It has been argued that sig radius is to do with the communication signals being sent to the mothership... should we not then get a sig boost for gangs (yes.. nerf fat gank packs.. nerf them i say...)
Heh, that one was me, and I was mostly being whimsical. I was only suggesting a possible fluff as to why Drones are the size of a drive way with the sensor foot print of a football pitch....
In all reality, I think that Drones should have their sig rad reduced, with their total HP left the same. Their HP count should be rebalanced to have more HP in armour than in shields, so that said sig-rad boost doesn't make scooper 'n drop tactics a must (like most drone users, I don't want to have to MWD to blaster range just so I can use my drones- 60 km drone range anyone?).
Probably.
To be completely honest, I think my brain has been scrambled by all this number crunching............. -----------------------------------------------
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Sith Vador
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 14:18:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Sith Vador on 23/11/2006 14:29:46 I think the new hp increase is great for carriers but there are a few things that need to be fixed with fighter drones an the minmatar carrier.
Fighter Drones: 1) They need a HP increase equal to other ships of there size as they are supposed to be. Being that fighters don't get the other drone bonuses they aren't drones an are supposed to be piloted by People per say. If you don't a few BS's could take down a carrier pretty easy by just killing the poor fighter drones. 2) It only makes sence being they don't use the regular drone skills they need there own class of skills. Makes sence right.
Minmatar Carrier:
1) Well to be honest the minmatar carrier is a huge crap of heep compared to all the other carriers. I believe the remote repair bonus (no offence to CCP) the worse bonus ever. Some options to make it somewhat close to it's brothers: 5% Damage 5% Drone Speed per lvl
5% Damage 5% HP per lvl
Or if your stuck on the current bonuses go with this to make it worth somethin. Making it effective in it's job as a support carrier.
10% Reduction in shield & Armor Transfer Duration & Cap Usage per lvl
PS: I think the last option would really make it stand out in supporting other ship in combat. But I'd really like to see the damage an HP bonus.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:34:00 -
[223]
Had a lot of la..euhm..fun last night on the fleet test gang thing. I was in the x-m2 gate camp gang, in my old and only remotely possible drone ship in game, the dominix. I had the only useful drone rigs on (armour repair amount and sentry drone dmg rigs).. 3 drone links and a sensor booster to give me a nice 134km targetting and 117 drone control range, 4 sec lock on BS.
Heh it was rather pathetic. You need to lock, then engage drones. I takes like 7 seconds for the first salvo to hit. I suppose it's faster than missiles. After some motherships dropped in (CCPMasta stands out) I figured I'd go for fighters. First tried sentries, which can't hit for ****zle even with target painters and omnidirectional drone mod on, at 40-80 km, which is usually great stuff.
Ofcourse I didn't just have sentries, it's a domi: first I sent in my medium drones (loverly t2's, with BS lvl 4, so kinda buffed) .. and after a few smart bombs on the way those were gone (nice mothership setup to kill drones).. They got of one salvo. The light drones lasted to get of a full 10 seconds of shooting, but got SB-ed too .. Not having offensive guns I figured I'd just drop a bunch of sentries and go nos someone (the Nyx ofcourse) and get his fighters as he was recalling them. With my large SB >:). Worked well enough to get noticed and 30 fighters took my domi to the next level.. fast..
So I fitted a nanophoon with small lasers and heavy nos. Orbit a Nyx, nos and mwd and get 40 fighters on you which are helpless. If i could use missiles (tech 2 pref) a bunch of heavy assault/heavy/light missiles would have exterminated those fighters one by one. As it was I used light t2 drones and small lasers to do it.
Drones need a hp boost, smart bombs are excellent drone killers, so are drones, not to mention missiles.
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
Kaden Seer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.23 19:36:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Keitaro Baka Drones need a hp boost, smart bombs are excellent drone killers, so are drones, not to mention missiles.
Agreed.
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Turtla
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 09:26:00 -
[225]
Remind me not to use fighters unless it's to hunt NPC.
Now they are way to easy to kill for the time it takes them to kill a BS.
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:17:00 -
[226]
ya the only use carriers will be now is with a shoot me sticker on the back, while all the kos will just wait for you to launch fighters so they can laugh at you when they insta pop them, they do not do enough dmg to justify using them in a fleet, as poping them does more dmg to the wallet then shooting at a frig/ceptor/cruiser
im quite disappointed with the fact that they could not fix drones in this patchà its very pathetic, this wav of patch is supposed to fix things as they had promised, but such issues as this its patheticà couldnÆt they fix the mwd issue? And the disconnect issue of fighters? How about the fact that they simply can not hit small targets at all? Or let the carrier pilots get bonus from the drone skills
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:22:00 -
[227]
also when i went on test server i was shocked to see the bug of initial launch of drones/fighters in a carrier that creates client side lag massive one... makes you go into a slide show....
it takes some time to select any other object in your overview, its a simple bug that is causing this massive lag and the solution is obviously selecting any other object on your screen, as for some reason when you launch drones/fighters one of the drones fighters is randomly selected and thus is causing some major lag for unknown reasons.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:40:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Patch Notes Ship, module, weapon, ammunition and drone balancing for improved Player versus Player and Player versus Environment experiences.
Anyone have any idea what this might actually be? Have Drone stats changed at all? (say, HP or Sig Rad?).
If not, it would appear Drones missed the Kali 1 boat, seeing as this is the last few days running up to deployment. -----------------------------------------------
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Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 04:27:00 -
[229]
Here are the changes to drones -
- Fighters will shut down their microwarpdrives at the proper distance from their targets.
- The drone control unit description now displays a CPU reduction bonus for Motherships and Carriers
- Mining drones now display their tech level.
Rock on!
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Blackest Sheep
Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.25 09:06:00 -
[230]
The last few fights on sisi my drones returned to the drone bay at once when ordered. The mwd'ed back to the ship all the way. No flying there to collect them, no waiting for ages.
Luck? Or a change?
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hankey
Minmatar The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:37:00 -
[231]
/signed Drones should get damage bonus, because all ships now got more HP, and shields tank will leave forever even with 5 T2 heavy against tanked ship.
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Galazar
EnMass
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:47:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Blackest Sheep The last few fights on sisi my drones returned to the drone bay at once when ordered. The mwd'ed back to the ship all the way. No flying there to collect them, no waiting for ages.
Luck? Or a change?
"Fighters will shut down their microwarpdrives at the proper distance from their targets."
Im guessing this includes the return flight, as in they also dont shut off their MWD's until they actually reach you...the above statement probably covers a few minor but conciderable changes as well...
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.25 13:19:00 -
[233]
Once again - a new patch with NOTHING for us drone users and lots of things for turret and missile users..
Oh ffs #ñ%#/%(#%
when will you stop ignoring us and actually concentrate on drones CCP? Give it a f.. min and you know what to fix !
Its ALLWAYS the turret ans missiles! If their missiles changed targets, if their turrets wouldnt react when you tell them to shoot, if it was possible to shoot their torrets - YOU WOULD GOT **** FIX IT INSTANTLY -
eeek, my brain is melting
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Felxia
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.25 14:53:00 -
[234]
not signed.
I'll sign it when carriers have to show themselves i nbattle instead of assigning drones to frigs to go around a pwn everything...
Grrr don't have a sig. |
Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 18:02:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Felxia not signed.
I'll sign it when carriers have to show themselves i nbattle instead of assigning drones to frigs to go around a pwn everything...
Which would defeat the entire function of a carrier in combat. Carriers are not front line support (even though some use it as such, and to the I say rock on space cowboys, rock on) they are designed for rear support with fighters.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Denga Vulture
The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 18:03:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane The problem isn't with Caldari I-Win buttons, it is, instead, with the broken implementation of drones and with their coming extra vulnerability in Kali. I hope we can keep Caldari bashing out of this thread.
Drones are the only weapon system that can be permanently disabled in a fight. No turret or missile has this disadvantage.
This is made worse by the fact that the main advantage of drones, the ability to retreat them from the fight, is buggily implemented, making taking advantage of this a dangerous proposal.
Furthermore, a buggy implementation of the way T2 BPOs are distributed means that the cost of the T2 drones is exorbitatantly high when compared to other weapon system (a T2 Hammerhead costing more then some frigates!), so if a drone is lost, this is quite a financial blow to the user, similar to losing a T2 turret or missile launcher.
With the longer fights in Kali, targeting and popping drones will become a viable strategy. Just check what happened in the long engagement in the last tournament. This wasn't so much the case before because of the short engagement times.
I suggest the following remedies to be implemented before Kali release/HP increase:
- Up the HP of drones proportional to the HP of ships, preferably by the same amount and preferably the shield HP as well (at least some increase);
- Change the signature radius of drones to the ones I specified in an earlier post in this thread (heavy drones with the signature radius of cruisers is ridiculous);
- Have the drones return to cargo-bay using their MWD and revise the flocking algorithm of drones in such a way that they do no longer 'cling' to each-other (having observed this behaviour too many times, I am certain it is a borked flocking algorithm that produces this);
- Reduce the time needed to lock onto your own drones, preferably to zero (this allows a drone user to support its own drones);
- Allow support drones to target the parent vehicle (the idea that a shield support drone can help someone else but not the parent is just plain silly), related: allow me to support gang-members with support drones without getting shot by Concord would also by nice;
- Revise the drone targeting algorithm so that they will all attack the same target, will no long forget targets, and will take into account their own tracking ranges modified by the user's skills (all these a bugs and nothing less, also decreasing DPS by increasing skill does not make any sense); and
- Revise the drone part of the overview in such a way that:
- It shows at least the armour left of drones in dronebay;
- It shows the actual attributes of the drones as affected by skills; and
- It is easier to use or allows for more flexibility (can you say hotkeys?).
Most of these remedies are simply bugs that haven't been addressed (for years!) and bork drone specialists and to a certain extend the Gallente race. The drone fix some months ago was a good start but not nearly enough.
Some love for the drones is long overdue.
/Signed. I still hope for the HP bonus ... how about a simple increasing of Drone durability ?
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Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.25 18:17:00 -
[237]
I just found something nice looking through the rigs...
There is a rig called "Sentry Damage Augmentor I" That increases sentry damage 10%. It's the only damage increasing drone rig though.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Teylas
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Posted - 2006.11.25 18:20:00 -
[238]
Did CCP fixed drones? I mean that bug when you send drones at target 40+km away from you and those stupid buggers started returning or changing target after flying 70% way???
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.25 19:22:00 -
[239]
You know, sometimes I really wish I hadn't drone specc'd (and boy am I drone specc'd). Not because I think somethings way better, or I want to play with another type of weapon, or anything typically whiny like that.
Its just that being a drone user depresses me so much. I love using them, but there are bugs still in them that have been here since beta. And every new patch, new bugs crop up for them, which wont get fixed. Half of the options available to other weapons (damage mods and the like) are completely missing from them. And now as the landscape of EVE combat is changed (with increased battle time, smaller ammo, smaller cap charges, bigger capacitors, new tanking ships........) drones are left behind, less able to compete than they ever have.
And do you know what bums me out more than anything else in the game? That ****ed Hammerhead I model. How is it that after about 4 years of EVE, theres still that simple, obvious and in-your-face bug, so easily fixed, just because no-ones ever been bothered to get to it. It was half the reason I trained for T2s as quickly as I did.............. -----------------------------------------------
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.25 21:32:00 -
[240]
so are you telling me that they did not fix the minmatar carrier bonus at all? and all the carriers still have the same half implemented bonuses without much consideration or thought since they came out?
how hard could it be to have tested it throughout all of this time since they came out? and with soooo much user input about what options to put for the minmatar carrier bonus and others
this is quite pathetic if they couldnÆt change the bonuses yetà very sad
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.25 22:26:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Drutort so are you telling me that they did not fix the minmatar carrier bonus at all? and all the carriers still have the same half implemented bonuses without much consideration or thought since they came out?
how hard could it be to have tested it throughout all of this time since they came out? and with soooo much user input about what options to put for the minmatar carrier bonus and others
this is quite pathetic if they couldnÆt change the bonuses yetà very sad
Yah, the carrier thing bugs me too. But atleast Tux has now said this. I'd kill for that kind of recognition for the drone problems -----------------------------------------------
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.26 00:52:00 -
[242]
Edited by: FawKa on 26/11/2006 00:55:29
It wont ever be possible to let a carrier into a fleet fight unless you make a carrier siegde mode module. One thing thats for sure is that HP boost wont help the carrier at all.
If they should be in the first line there are some req.s that everyone has said should have been a basic feature since the first carrier was build!!:
Toggle mode for fighters if they should warp after target or not! That is just the basic!
More HP to fighters - as they are all too easy to kill or: - make skills for fighters, more HP, more tracking, more speed etc. and so on.. theres lots of threads..
And anyways.. We keep getting ideas but we all know that the devs got all too much to do with all their lovely turrets and missiles
edit: clicked enter a few times, lookd boring :)
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Lai Nah
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Posted - 2006.11.26 07:36:00 -
[243]
I would really want to se an uppgrade on the drones info when having them onboard the ship as any other gun when placeing diffrent types of amo. For example when having drone uppgrade modules, drone riggs or higher skills than what the drone requieres. Range, tracking, speed, HP and so on....
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MrRx7
Amarr Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.26 09:27:00 -
[244]
Anyone else having this issuse where the fighters wont MWD back to the carrier?
I dislike having to wait 10min for them to fly back 80km at 500m/s
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:01:00 -
[245]
Originally by: MrRx7 Anyone else having this issuse where the fighters wont MWD back to the carrier?
I dislike having to wait 10min for them to fly back 80km at 500m/s
Yeah, it ment to be fixed in 2 days.. but I would like to see it before I get happy tbh..
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Celestos Marxii
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Posted - 2006.11.27 14:42:00 -
[246]
People that think the recal/redeploy with full shields tactic is viable are drone-noobs and need to be shot.
*drones return slowly with a 0 transversal and the sig of a barn w/ mwd.
*Only their shields are repaired, which are as thin as my hair.
*Recalling them takes them out of battle... so we aren't doing damage to our enemy for as long as it takes to recall/redeploy. Have you ever recalled heavy drones 30km you flippin' noob? Oh yeah, like not doing damage for over a minute isn't a disadvantage.
Get a clue.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.27 15:39:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Celestos Marxii People that think the recal/redeploy with full shields tactic is viable are drone-noobs and need to be shot.
*drones return slowly with a 0 transversal and the sig of a barn w/ mwd.
*Only their shields are repaired, which are as thin as my hair.
*Recalling them takes them out of battle... so we aren't doing damage to our enemy for as long as it takes to recall/redeploy. Have you ever recalled heavy drones 30km you flippin' noob? Oh yeah, like not doing damage for over a minute isn't a disadvantage.
Get a clue.
Hell, if people really think its that big a problem, then just stop shields insta-recharging in drone bay. Its not like anyone actually uses that tactic, so if its really a huge balancing problem, just stop it happening. -----------------------------------------------
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hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2006.11.27 19:26:00 -
[248]
Did they increase the hp of fighter to match the increase of on ships. If not my carrier my get perm docked or only used a high priced hauler till it gets resolved.
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:35:00 -
[249]
I definitely saw less in the patch notes relating to drones as I thought I would, but at least itÆs not a direct nerf. I only read a couple of pages, so I may be repeating someone.
Ok, so theyÆve made it so ships donÆt go *pop* quite as quickly anymore. Ok, cool beans. But in large group PvP, will drones (not fighters per se) be of any more use than they are now? As I understand it, between the lag and time-to-target they tend to be more trouble than they are worth.
So are we just talking about small scale PvP or solo PvP where drone hitpoints are of major concern? I guess itÆs then just a question of whether or not your opponent is set up with anti-drone measures. Even if you give drones the same 25% base armor increase as the ships are getting à will it really take *that* much longer to take æem down if your ship is equipped to do so?
The people whining about the insta-shield regen need to stop. Drone shields are very weak sauce to begin with. Why would Drones keep their shields on while docked anyway? It doesnÆt make sense to slowly regenerate something that isnÆt being generated at the time.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:18:00 -
[250]
Test
Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions |
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:18:00 -
[251]
So where is our sticky?
Why did we not get any HP boost to drones or fighters? Why did we not get any improvements to drones? Why is there no repond to all our drone-dmgmod ideas? Why cant we rep a drone A with drone B? smart? Why do you allways improve turret and missile launchers so much in every patch when drones has been needing a overhaul for 2 years? Dont you like drones?
- or dont you guys know how to fix it?
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Koum Lesaintier
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:48:00 -
[252]
bassicaly, droens and fighters are prety much nerfed now after the ship hp increase. it;s obvious that they should get at LEAST the same treatment as ships as now they;ll be ridiculously easy to get rid off.
but for the sake of the god( s) you believe, one would think that you could sit donw and fix known bugs that plague drones since 2 years ago ( thats when i started playing..). Having new and ultra neat stuff is nice, but CCP I would be glad for one if you didnt do half finished jobs and moved on.
And drones are a prety big part of the game to be half finished 3 uears after it was launched. barf
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:10:00 -
[253]
What bugs me is that not only were there no drone fixes in this patch, and drones have still been left behind on HP counts BUT they've even recieved a minor nerf. Now Drones can't rep each other, or be used to attack your own cans / property.
Just what we needed, no boosts, more nerf................ -----------------------------------------------
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:18:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Patch86 on 30/11/2006 01:18:16 By the by, this thread has also cropped up with a new drone bug. -----------------------------------------------
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Rogerano
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Posted - 2006.11.30 02:36:00 -
[255]
Lol... This thread is rubbish. Only some fights are going to last a LITTLE bit longer, not heaps. For a cruiser v cruiser what was a 30 second fight is going to last 37.5 seconds now (+25%). Good work if you can target and destroy all of the other guy's drones in 7.5 seconds.
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Pinpisa Jormao
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:09:00 -
[256]
Keep drones as they are (So smartbombs still do the "trick").
But Please make drone armor repair themselves (atleast slowly if not anything else) when inside your ship.
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FawKa
Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:13:00 -
[257]
Edited by: FawKa on 30/11/2006 16:14:49 btw, I am the only one that has to reengage my drones to NPC targets over and over again as some drones (mostly just one) picks a whole other target I havent even locked?
Looks like some fool were in the script and just deleted the single % AI our drones had before patch?
unless this only happens on my account - but that would be rather wierd.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:14:00 -
[258]
Yep, it seems like drones got even worse after Revelations. *Sigh* -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:30:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Pinpisa Jormao Keep drones as they are (So smartbombs still do the "trick").
But Please make drone armor repair themselves (atleast slowly if not anything else) when inside your ship.
Its even worse now- you can't even order repair drones to target other drones, now. So the days of being able to reapir your drones between battles have come to an abrupt end.......... -----------------------------------------------
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FawKa
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:04:00 -
[260]
So looks like we are screwed here.. Drones attacks ships that arent locked on mission, how freaking great..
Could you devs please try and be a Gallentean dronespecd guy for a sec? just place the raven in your hangar and fit out a domi please. kay, thanks.
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente Spectral Armada Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 19:57:00 -
[261]
I for one am sick of caldari online, missions are a no no with drones, they just get you killed, like in most situations... ive been training hybrid guns for a few weeks because drones are a god damn liability.
You cant run missions so no profit in high sec... You can mine but rats call primary on mining drones (Smort?) You can rat in 0.0 but you need to aggro the whole spawn so that the last one doesnt *****your friggin drones (time taken about 20 seconds per spawn. time taken in a Raven 0 seconds) You have to pull in your drones to warp if people show up, since drones are ****** (slowboating back to ship... attacking random ****.... flying around random places... ignoring commands... lagging... sucking at everything...) it not only disrupts your slow ratting but puts you at a lot of risk since you spend so long trying to get them back. You cant really tell the drones what you want unless its something really simple... even then they wont do it. Your drones lag to launch, need to fly to target, need to engage and then need to start pouring on pretty ****house DPS in PVP.... its hard enough to get people to fight you in revelations (unless its 6 v 1....) without drones and their embarassing alpha abilitys... Plus the fact you need to recall them to warp (unless you wanna leave them and nerf yourself) The ai randomly attacks friendly/neutral **** STILL. CONCORD > DRONE USERS
As much as i love drones as a weapons system they are thouroughly unusable in their present state.
Can you imagine what would happen if such random defective **** happened to missles? the carebear hordes would descend on this forum like a million emo banshees and the server would be taken down to fix the problems.... Tis time for a REAL drone upgrade...
The sadest thing of all is people talking about A) cycling drones (it doesnt work very well... ) and B) Gallente being overpowered because of NOS + Drones
We already lost ECM. If NOS gets a nerf too the dominix/myr/vexor are all dead ducks.
ECM works on a dominix because its PG is already nerfed to hell... leaving lots of CPU and no PG for fun stuff.
I fear that the whining will continue until a nos nerf, and inevitably a full blown domi nerf are forthcoming.
Its great playing caldari online, isnt it?
Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:24:00 -
[262]
What really depresses me about all this, more than all the bugs, more than the stealth nerfs, more than the lack of functionality, is this:
We STILL havn't got a decent dev aknowledgement.
All I'd like to keep me happy would be "Hi! I work in [insert department here] and I'd like to assure you all we are aware of the problems with drones, and we are working on it! So hang in there!". If I had that, I could stop stalking this thread every other day in the hopes that something interesting has happened.............. -----------------------------------------------
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FawKa
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.05 12:45:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Patch86 What really depresses me about all this, more than all the bugs, more than the stealth nerfs, more than the lack of functionality, is this:
We STILL havn't got a decent dev aknowledgement.
All I'd like to keep me happy would be "Hi! I work in [insert department here] and I'd like to assure you all we are aware of the problems with drones, and we are working on it! So hang in there!". If I had that, I could stop stalking this thread every other day in the hopes that something interesting has happened..............
We got the exact same points here.. If only someone told us that they've wrote everything down and will give it all a try. I more or less want them to say they favor turret and launchers. But thats not going to happen - but lots of truth is hidden for us.
and bumb to the top as we dont have a respond here. Tuxiiie?
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Rico Daclaw
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Posted - 2006.12.05 14:38:00 -
[264]
It's not that drones are being ignored, they are being made worse and worse with every passing patch. At the rate they are going they are usless in the next few months, I for one am going to scrap my months of training in Gallante and move to minmaar.
Drones appear to be a waste of time, they're just going to nerf them more and not improve them. |
R0ze
Hounds of Basgerin
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Posted - 2006.12.05 14:55:00 -
[265]
The prepatch topic has been locked will try here..
Can somebody give me a more clear answer to this (okay could test after the patch but still): "New programming has been added to drones. They will no longer attempt to become self-aware and will not pick random targets on their own."
Does this mean drones wont attack anything on their own and in case primary (issued) target destroyed will they idle? Does this mean if I'm attacked and loose a lock (jammed) they won't fire back?
In my opinion the preffered way (I hope it will be like this) would be that drones dont switch target untill its destroyed but afterwards if no new target is given they choose themselves..
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DriveCrash
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.05 15:27:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Teylas Did CCP fixed drones? I mean that bug when you send drones at target 40+km away from you and those stupid buggers started returning or changing target after flying 70% way???
no. in fact, try takeing a domi out for a spin with 6 drone links up high. You can even fit 4 drone nav computers if you want. (you'll need a sensor booster for target range)
Send some heavys out at your newfound 174km drone control range!! YAY! UBER! OMG! wait.. after 30 seconds of flight they go idle and get stupid. they start slowboating back to you. You have to tell them to engage target again. God help you if you dont have drone nav computers fitted, it takes 4 times of telling the drones to engage to get them to target. I know 174km drone range is silly, i'm just proving a point that drones DO NOT listen, and go dumb all the time. of course once your drones go idle, they get a mind of thier own, thus changeing targets.
I'm still annoyed that drones dont attack things like cans, wrecks..
but more than anything else. why in gods almighty name are repair drones considered HOSTILE???? nothing makes me happy more than getting my rep drones blasted by my gangmates FoF's. -DCO
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R0ze
Hounds of Basgerin
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Posted - 2006.12.05 15:36:00 -
[267]
Originally by: DriveCrash
I'm still annoyed that drones dont attack things like cans, wrecks..
It was pretty spectacular (back in time) drones attacked also structures on their own.. Throwing out 8 heavys from a rax and letting blow up them some 30 structure units.. I'd say a Doomdevice effect in Castor (or when was it) :)
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DriveCrash
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.05 15:53:00 -
[268]
Edited by: DriveCrash on 05/12/2006 15:53:35
Originally by: R0ze
Originally by: DriveCrash
I'm still annoyed that drones dont attack things like cans, wrecks..
It was pretty spectacular (back in time) drones attacked also structures on their own.. Throwing out 8 heavys from a rax and letting blow up them some 30 structure units.. I'd say a Doomdevice effect in Castor (or when was it) :)
i remember that. i got wtf pwnd cause my drones ran off and were beating on a abandoned stargate. i couldn't figure out what was wrong and why the damage i was takeing wasn't dropping. mmm good days those were. but even then drones would not attack Giant Secure Cans. To my knowledge they never have. I have a laser toteing geddon just for that reason, GSC killing, because my stupid *** drones wont attack them. -DCO
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Chencherra
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Posted - 2006.12.05 22:20:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Chencherra on 05/12/2006 22:22:56
Originally by: R0ze The prepatch topic has been locked will try here..
Can somebody give me a more clear answer to this (okay could test after the patch but still): "New programming has been added to drones. They will no longer attempt to become self-aware and will not pick random targets on their own."
Does this mean drones wont attack anything on their own and in case primary (issued) target destroyed will they idle? Does this mean if I'm attacked and loose a lock (jammed) they won't fire back?
CCP fixed Drone A.I. ! Thats what i thought as i read the patch notes. but they became even more stupid. Before patch they attacked different targets but one klick on "engage" made them run to your target and blow it up. But now they attack your target for like a minute and after that they stop shooting . Hell i use them to kill frigs in missions but after some seconds they go for battleships, but not all at the same BS, each drone attacks a different ship .
why dont they kill the myrmidon and give gallente a Battlecruiser with Drone-A.I.-bonus ? why do drones get nerfed with every patch? and when will they fix missions, where drones get full stage aggroed? how should i kill the small frigs in Worlds Collide 4 in my megathron without drones? as soon as i launch em they get shot and whole stage starts shooting at me. fit 4 webbers and hope rails will hit em ? fit assault missiles instead of cruise??? use freaky blasters for missions with paperthin tank ?
maybe they should build a missile-bs for gallente, just like the rokh for caldari, so gallente get caldari weapons and can do missions the easy way too . well nobody needs that blasterhyperion anyway...but a ship that can do missions without stupid drones .
why dont they nerf missiles, so each missile attacks another enemy ?
we dont need lower damage with t2 ammo, we need to get the annoying things fixed first. we dont need new bs, when we get blown up by a full stage of serpentis just because we launched our "primary" weapon .
...
btw. attacking someone in low sec with an ishkur, launching your drones and watching them how they attack NPC-rats instead of your primary target...
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Aftenbar
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Posted - 2006.12.06 02:20:00 -
[270]
Is it time to call up CCP customer service and say Hi drones are horrid can you please swap all my useless skills so that I can use a Raven which never seems to be nerfed.......
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Nimitz Alexander
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Posted - 2006.12.06 03:27:00 -
[271]
yah ill second that before the patch sometimes id have to tell em multiple times what to attack.... but now i still have to then,and at random points they change targets on their own, and its not even to things shooting at em.....
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FawKa
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.06 05:54:00 -
[272]
Its just sad that some dev can keep deleting the wrong script or something.
I seriously lost faith here, CCP doesnt really care about drones afterall, we are just a secondary weapon here? Oh geez..
What a lovely game.. talking so much about balancing.. and the AI just suck. Try fix instead of making more features like we have been saying since '03.
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Jaybird
Gallente Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.12.08 13:16:00 -
[273]
Im Gallente, how can I not....
/signed
Send Hate Mails Here... |
Ackuula
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Posted - 2006.12.08 16:13:00 -
[274]
signed/
match the armor fix the AI
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Omumou Faydack
Amarr KarWal Corporation Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 11:47:00 -
[275]
/signed
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WHeisenberg
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Posted - 2006.12.28 19:26:00 -
[276]
my three cents...
Drones get nerfed every patch. We know this as fact.
Drones are often getting the blame as one of the major causes of lag on the servers, as well as lag on individual client screens.
So, what's the quick and easy solution? Make drones so unstable, unusable and rediculously underpowered that people cant effectively use them. This makes it easier to eliminate them from the game completely.
From there.. when the lag is still around.. (blame whatever you want, any and every 'lag fix' fails miserably).. it'll be something else that gets blamed.
Before too long, major fleet battles will be held by sitting in a station and smacktalking in local.. until they eliminate chat because it's the only thing that remains in the game - thus can be the only thing causing all the lag.
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Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.29 02:35:00 -
[277]
/signed
Like the changes described on this list: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=451105&page=1#5
Most of them might reduce lag, but they also lessen the game experience. I think the solution is a more powerful server, optimized alogrithms etc. not to kill/nerf anything that is suspected to cause lag.
Cheers, Xeno
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Eraggan Sadarr
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.03.15 09:35:00 -
[278]
/Signed
Drone keyboard hotkeys, please!
Regards Eraggan Sadarr
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Xeen DuWang
Hell's Horsemen Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.24 01:38:00 -
[279]
/signed
HP bonus and AI fix.
Keep this thread alive till done.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected]) |
Von Forlock
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Posted - 2007.08.28 12:51:00 -
[280]
/signed
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Murtough Galaktikus
Crusader Inc. Soul of Fountain
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Posted - 2007.08.28 13:46:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Murtough Galaktikus on 28/08/2007 13:49:12 Dunno how often i (and others) mentioned it before, but Drones need some love anyway at all. Im too bored to list all up again.
Quote: we need to get the annoying things fixed first.
/signed
edit: typing
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