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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
564
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:10:09 -
[31] - Quote
afkalt wrote:It's nothing to do with it being 'inappropriate' - it's straight up flame and troll bait, it's also a friggin repost of a locked thread (or it's been unlocked repeatedly without anyone saying, which is poor form). The idea itself being ludicrous is neither here nor there.
As to why it's ludicrous, way to put even more emphasis on isk/hour thus cementing older players vast income stream compared to newbies. and such passive income as week long PI cycles, ship production from purchased minerals, moongoo and renter money.
I.e. if you don't have membership in a group with sov, or trillions of iskies, or are a merc getting paid to dec or a ganker, good luck affording cruisers to PVP in.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
564
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:11:31 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Please do not report this thread for trolling. ISD do not lock a thread just because you believe that the idea inappropriate. You are free to state that you believe the idea is bad, subject to the forum rules.
If you have questions about this, please file a support ticket. Then the first, second and third (by my count) times this has been unlocked, there should have been a post about it not being considered trolling and why, as I still feel like this is either absolutely brilliant trolling, or the work of someone who need professional help.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
402
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:16:21 -
[33] - Quote
James Baboli wrote: Alright, so if you remove the ability to run lots of content for having to run bad content because you have low skills, and/or don't yet have the corp standings for lvl3/4/5 missions, newbies are now effectively required to join a corporation linked to a major income stream, like moongoo, to have access to any of the cool toys, like enough t1 cruisers to take your pick and use the right tool.
Requiring players to cooperate with others in MMO in order to be successful isn't a diabolic plan. A solo newbie has 0.0 chance to get kills, as solo PvP demands the most skill. Why should he have more chance in solo ISK making? Of course he can remain solo and clueless, just without ISK and kills.
James Baboli wrote: And again, falls victim to malcanis's law, in that this change is now being tauted as for the newbie, but ends up almost exclusively benefiting the bittervet, whose higher isk/hr make them unquestionably better funded under a time cap..
Would be true if everyone would have one accounts. But account-wide limits hit N times harder on someone with N accounts. Newbies have one account.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
564
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:23:28 -
[34] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote: Requiring players to cooperate with others in MMO in order to be successful isn't a diabolic plan. A solo newbie has 0.0 chance to get kills, as solo PvP demands the most skill. Why should he have more chance in solo ISK making? Of course he can remain solo and clueless, just without ISK and kills.
Requiring cooperation in something as complex and politically gamed as EVE without the ability to figure out the game mostly on your own is diabolical. Right now that path exists, but is a very hard path. Your idea puts an absolute gate on it.
Then there is the massive price change this would bring about for all minerals, and thus all t1 modules, the near total lack of meta modules from the massively reduced ratting, etc. More assets, be they isk or modules or ships, encourage more play.
Gevlon Goblin wrote: Would be true if everyone would have one accounts. But account-wide limits hit N times harder on someone with N accounts. Newbies have one account.
If your accounts are all making the same isk, being used for the same PvP, etc., that cap doesn't hit you any harder or less hard than someone with one account. Now, someone who is multi-boxing to sustain one shiny pvp toon? hits them right in the voonerables for a wrecking shot.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Madd Adda
74
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:49:49 -
[35] - Quote
Why are we even discussing this? What Gevlon is suggesting is for CCP to impose more restrictions to a "sandbox MMO". Jump Fatigue encumbers travel and PVP across distance, but doesn't stop/prevent PVP altogether, so why do this to gimp PVE? If you want a fatigue timer for PVE, then there should be one for PVP, simple as that.
It seems to me that Gevlon wants to force us into becoming content he would enjoy rather than considering why others play this game.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Iain Cariaba
1309
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:59:50 -
[36] - Quote
Madd Adda wrote:It seems to me that Gevlon wants to force us into becoming content he would enjoy rather than considering why others play this game. That pretty much sums up everything Gevlon posts about.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
568
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Posted - 2015.04.24 22:22:02 -
[37] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Madd Adda wrote:It seems to me that Gevlon wants to force us into becoming content he would enjoy rather than considering why others play this game. That pretty much sums up everything Gevlon posts about. Which brings us to why it was reported as trolling. Specifically concern, with a dash of flamebait.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
403
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Posted - 2015.04.25 17:06:46 -
[38] - Quote
You seem to forget that in a competitive game everything that is possible and rewarding is mandatory. If your opponent farms 10 hours a day and you don't, he'll defeat you with superior resources.
Most players don't AFK mine because that's so much fun, but because they feel they have no choice if they want to remain competitive. Then they burn out and quit.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
191
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Posted - 2015.04.25 17:13:46 -
[39] - Quote
Or they could rat, run anoms, fw, wormholes, gank, etc.
Its a players choice if she or he chooses a more active activity for isk/hr, or feels pressured to do mindless tasks for it. Stop pouring concrete in the sandbox.
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, its just a game
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2788
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Posted - 2015.04.25 19:03:53 -
[40] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Phoebe patch of EVE introduced a very unintuitive change: a direct nerf to PvP in order to increase PvP activity. Using the jump drive of a ship or taking a jump bridge placed a timer on the pilot that barred him from quick re-jumping. A fatigue was also introduced that penalized re-jumping in a moderate amount of time by increasing the next timer. As travelers could calculate with these timers and simply include AFK stops, this change intentionally hit hunters who wished to travel fast to catch their prey. The straightforward result is less successful hunts, so less PvP. On the contrary, PvP increased in nullsec after Phoebe. The reason was that smaller entities dared to undock and fight as the threat of being squashed by huge entities diminished. They created lots of small encounters which outnumbered the few big hunts of the big ones, resulting in increased PvP activity. PvE is in an even worse shape. PLEX prices nearly doubled in the past year, showing serious devaluing of time spent doing PvE. Why? Because multiboxing no-lifers and bots pour out ISK and minerals in ridiculous amounts. The casual player who could do PvE 1 hours a day with his one account is stomped by the no-lifers and bots who are "playing" 10+ hours with 10+ accounts. A casual miner can earn 20M/hour max in highsec, demanding 40 hours to get the ISK he could get by spending some real money for a PLEX. In the meantime a ratting botter gets his PLEX in a night while asleep. Just like it was unreasonable to undock a solo carrier before Phoebe, it's unreasonable to undock a solo mining or ratting ship. The players who liked this aspect of the game had less and less reason to log in. The solution is a Phoebe for PvE: making room for the countless little guys by stopping the few big guys to stomp them out. The PvE-fatigue should be introduced: if you are in combat with NPCs, running mining modules or using the PI interface, you accumulate fatigue which diminishes over time. If your fatigue gets over the limit, your DPS against NPCs and mining yield starts to diminish, penalizing continuation. After a high fatigue you are also locked out of PI interface. Since PvE alts are much cheaper to train than proper PvP pilots, the fatigue would be bypassed by alts, so needs to be account-wide. This way the no-lifer or botter needs to use extra PLEX-es to keep running. Let's calibrate the fatigue to kick in after 1 hour/day farming - which is more than enough for a casual player if we want him to do other things than farming! Of course give enough buffer before penalties so he can spend all his weekly farming time on weekend. This way low-efficiency activities like highsec mining and battlecruiser bot-ratting would become unsustainable: if you can mine just 30 hours a month, you simply can't earn a PLEX. This would stop many farmers and would take the edge of multiboxing. Of course high-intensity activities like carrier ratting, gas mining or incursions would allow a good player to still go infinite. The real result would be the same as with Phoebe. The PvP-er of a local small corp don't have to travel to use his carrier, so he is unaffected. The casual miner or ratter already pays for his account, and wouldn't PvE enough to get fatigue penalty so his PvE has no new costs. Without the insane competition of no-lifers and bots, his earnings would actually worth something and he'd be encouraged to continue. PS: trading is PvP, please don't be the moron who suggest fatigue on setting/modifying orders!
TL;DR...
People playing the game outside PvP is bad. Stop them.
Errr no.
Edit: And don't touch my PvE/income generating process either!! I'm a special snowflake. Rent seeking noted. Now bugger off.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2809
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Posted - 2015.04.25 19:04:06 -
[41] - Quote
PVE Fatigue means mineral streams begin to slow down T1 prices go up, Explorers do not hack as many cans making invention prices go up, players would soon be quitting because everything gets too expensive to use, fewer players makes PVPer quit as there are less targets.
Eventually the only player left would be Gevlon Goblin and hid PVE fatigue.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2788
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Posted - 2015.04.25 19:12:47 -
[42] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:EVE should reward the player being better and not letting his client run longer.
While this sounds like a reasonable position I'd like to point out that this is perfectly in accord with Malcanis' law. Simply by virtue of the fact that I started this game almost 8 years ago I play better than any new player can ever hope. In a few minutes I'll earn far, far more than a new player. The new players will be much more likely to be impacted by this than I.
I'll also note that Gevlon's declaration that station trading is in fact PvP carries with the putrid stench of self-serving avarice.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1112
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Posted - 2015.04.25 19:18:49 -
[43] - Quote
I just saw this thread... is this guy seriously saying that the alts I use for PI production (not a small amount of effort to manage in losec) should incur fatigue on my exploring main who engages in competitive PvP through explo? The phrase that springs to mind rhymes with duck cough... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2790
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Posted - 2015.04.25 19:19:28 -
[44] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:You seem to forget that in a competitive game everything that is possible and rewarding is mandatory. If your opponent farms 10 hours a day and you don't, he'll defeat you with superior resources.
Most players don't AFK mine because that's so much fun, but because they feel they have no choice if they want to remain competitive. Then they burn out and quit.
No they AFK mine because they are likely at their computer doing something else and figure with mining it can be done [semi] AFK.
Amazingly, I don't use isboxer or any other such tools, I have plenty of isk and I don't feel like I need to get isboxer to "remain" competitive...
By the way, we aren't competing with the people you are worried about. After all, they are only sitting in anoms all day long. In fact, I can defeat them and all I is a brand new character who spent just enough time to fit a prototype cloaking device then get said character in their ratting system at a safe and cloaked up. Then after a few days I come to the forums and read their rage posts.
Seriously, your monomaniacal focus on just isk as the only metric to who wins Eve is tiresome.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2790
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Posted - 2015.04.25 19:27:05 -
[45] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:Rewarding active gameplay is NOT the same as limiting low effort activity. Im all for boosting active gameplay but im 100% against your suggestion Actually it is. The activities are in competition and one of them being too lucrative is suppressing all others. When Drakes were nerfed, people started using other ships. Before that, fleet actions were Drakefleet vs Drakefleet.
Do you not see that you are just...well not thinking clearly. If activities are in competition then by definition they are PvP. Everything in this game is PvP to varying degrees. Two competing miners show up in a HS belt, its a race to see who can suck up the most valuable ores first. One might just figure it isn't worth it and goes [semi] AFK...but still PvP.
Really, you see things as black-and-white. If it is PvE it cannot be PvP. If it is PvP it cannot be PvE. In reality the distinction is far less clear. A guy ratting in his carrier (rather dumb) gets tackled and bleats for help...now we have PvP. Station trading is both PvE and PvP. Yes you are competing against other players...but also the game environment...for example what will the Ore change in sov null mean for setting up buy and sell orders? Will a major war interrupt the flow of certain resources?
So, can you please ask ISD to lock your thread? It may not be trolling, a debatable proposition, but it was damn silly and not very well thought out.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Lord Battlestar
Faulcon de Lazy
211
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Posted - 2015.04.25 20:06:23 -
[46] - Quote
Interesting to me that the only major part of the eve economy you participate on this list is not included. If anything I'd wager that you have tons and tons of stockpiles of items you can sell after the proposed changes for a substantial profit. Because of that, it is easy to see your proposed changes would do nothing but make your wallet richer, and everyone else poorer.
I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2792
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Posted - 2015.04.25 23:45:47 -
[47] - Quote
The player with multiple accounts will still always have advantage. Also a player that wants to mine, do PI and periodically rat will be really hit hard by this even if he has a single account. Being told you can only play 1 hour a day unless it is a Gevlon Goblin activity sure will boost players being online, being a new player, and player retention. This is one of the stupidest ideas to grace this forum.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
245
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Posted - 2015.04.26 14:05:36 -
[48] - Quote
-1 Your PvE fatigue issue will have 0 (zero) positive affects on the game, but the negative affects will be huge.
-1 When cap ship pilots run into fatigue related restrictions they have a choice, jump into sub-caps and keep playing or sit out the timer and do nothing. The point being they have a choice. When a PvE player runs into your ridiculous fatigue timer they have no choices but dock up and do nothing or simply log off to wait out your timer. Oh and I can see your post now and the answer is no this WILL NOT drive players to PvP(shoot other player ships definition inserted here). Those who enjoy shooting other players do so, those who do not never will.
-1 I spend most of my time working with new players which means I spend most of my game time flying lvl 4 missions to boost THEIR standings and ISK earning abilities and this idea would put a severe limitation on my ability to do that. How does this help the game overall?
-1 There are areas of concern regarding all of the various flavors of PvE activities in EvE but this idea is a band aid patch intended to restrict a players ability to do what they want and it does nothing to solve the reasons why these troubled areas exist.
-1 Simply because fatigue was and is a needed step to control the PvP activities in nul and rejuvenate that portion of the game does not mean that the same idea can or should be applied to ALL areas of the game. Nul presents a very unique set of circumstances and challenges to CCP that simply do not exist in any other area of the game and it required a unique solution.
-1 If botting is a problem in the PvE area then come up with ideas that address that specific issue instead of putting a crimp in every ones game play style.
I get the feeling the OP is one of those cap ship pilots that often runs into fatigue timer restrictions on his game play and simply wants to force this onto others. Got an idea for you, adapt your game play to the PvE way and enjoy endless hours of doing whatever you want with no fatigue problems in sight. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
932
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Posted - 2015.04.26 14:43:43 -
[49] - Quote
This is a terrible idea, even for you.
If you want to keep your competition from making ISK more than you think they should, undock a spaceship and make them stop. Otherwise, go back to your troll cave and stop bad posting.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1107
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Posted - 2015.04.26 14:44:54 -
[50] - Quote
Apply to trading. Modify an order once per 24H
How'd you like them apples, OP? |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
616
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Posted - 2015.04.26 16:20:20 -
[51] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:You seem to forget that in a competitive game everything that is possible and rewarding is mandatory. If your opponent farms 10 hours a day and you don't, he'll defeat you with superior resources.
This has 2 issues.
One is you are assuming all have a you must destroy your enemy entirely mindset. Not all do. If bad player who farms pve real good is comfortable with undocking to die like a muppet several times....there are lots of Player B's who will collect those KM's and say thank you, again and again.
In the past I didn't shoot at say goons with the intent to shut them down one players at a time. I was NBSI...it could have been anyone, I just wanted the KM. You see...I found the secret to eve pvp is to just enjoy just doing it. I avoided the caod space drama as much as possible. I undocked, killed some things, don't die myself best case....called that a damn good day.
Second is you are assuming this ding on pve changes this. Since you conveniently left out market transactions....this is how many make their money.
Either personally as i in 0.0 had an alt make and sell stuff to keep in ships and then some. in close to 2 years out there I was deployed eve style 75% of the time.....no ratting on deployments really. Best present you'd get is a target with shinies...or a bounty on them.
Or from the corp/alliance. The moon goo still flows in the market with often updated prices in your idea chief. If home is SRP/FRP friendly (and stable) with your little exception here.....you aren't changing much versus non SRP. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
403
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Posted - 2015.04.26 18:54:36 -
[52] - Quote
I can't believe that some people are so dumb to mention trading despite I explicitly told not to. Trading creates no ISK or material of any kind. Can only be performed via interacting other player. If you are left alone while trading, you make zero ISK, while you make maximum ISK if left alone while doing PvE.
Also, this suggestion would decrease trading income, as less materials would be traded and more people would turn to trading after their PvE time is out.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Arthur Aihaken
Jormungand Corporation
4371
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Posted - 2015.04.26 19:17:56 -
[53] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Most players don't AFK mine because that's so much fun, but because they feel they have no choice if they want to remain competitive. Then they burn out and quit. Or you killed them.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
617
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Posted - 2015.04.26 23:32:28 -
[54] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:I can't believe that some people are so dumb to mention trading despite I explicitly told not to. Trading creates no ISK or material of any kind. Can only be performed via interacting other player. If you are left alone while trading, you make zero ISK, while you make maximum ISK if left alone while doing PvE.
Also, this suggestion would decrease trading income, as less materials would be traded and more people would turn to trading after their PvE time is out.
This depends on what you make....and how you make it. I made a fair bit skipping the pvp part of the market you are on about. I'd say I have x runs of item(s) x,y,z from invent when in a player corp. People buying up a whole bunch of production runs were doing me a favor. Burned bpc's knowing I had it sold before its even in the oven...and I skipped the whole jita isk war mess. Lost mil here and there worth the dealing with less crap really. Tl;Dr....I worked a PwP angle. Player with player lol.
Also you goal seems to be shutting down the guy making 50 mil an hour for 10 hours. Tied to the above...this happens quite easily in manufacturing and trading. IF the goal is the shutting down the evil care/null bear....well shut down all the avenues. Wouldn't make the idea less crappy...but it be complete in its intent. I like complete ideas. At least everyone gets a bite of the crap sandwich. Instead I am going with 6 years in with potential market spikes on pve content drop items I can work some market speculation games. What is the angle you are working is something we have to wonder. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1114
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Posted - 2015.04.27 02:27:24 -
[55] - Quote
I have two real problems with the idea (as above on the assumption it is serious). Many people do not PvP as they literally hate it. That's not to say that they won't do it if forced upon them in open space but that they would never choose to engage in it. This idea would be tantamount to limiting the amount of time they can engage in the aspects of the sandbox they enjoy. Players like myself would be impacted severely as I invent, haul, manufacture, occasionally mine, run explo sites and combat anoms, manage PI and market orders. I actually don't get time for PvP even if I wanted too.
Secondly this would inflict limits on those with accessibilty issues for whom PvP is practically impossible. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
617
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Posted - 2015.04.27 03:50:39 -
[56] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I have two real problems with the idea (as above on the assumption it is serious). Many people do not PvP as they literally hate it. That's not to say that they won't do it if forced upon them in open space but that they would never choose to engage in it. This idea would be tantamount to limiting the amount of time they can engage in the aspects of the sandbox they enjoy. Players like myself would be impacted severely as I invent, haul, manufacture, occasionally mine, run explo sites and combat anoms, manage PI and market orders. I actually don't get time for PvP even if I wanted too.
Secondly this would inflict limits on those with accessibilty issues for whom PvP is practically impossible.
I am under this situation. My eve is pve because its all I can really do. Might be on for 2 hour here and there if that.
I did pvp for a bit. While enjoyable it can be time consuming. waiting for form ups can and was burning up 1/4 to 1/2 of my game time alone. A reason why I left 0.0 tbh. Other reason is that if its near my bedtime, stuck in the depths of space and op not looking to end I'd log off. And place bets on my chance of making it back alive solo the next time I login.
BS ops? I have never lost a BS to pvp combat at least by another player tbh. Now self destructs when stuck in a safe and no fleet coming to tag along with days later....that I have done many times. better SD than dying like a muppet to camps in an unscouted bs. Former I don't crap up the KB with dying like a tard and getting the usual chats that can result.
I just got too old and too responsible at work to be useless drained from very short sleep cycles playing eve till the wee hours of the morning. Weekends I got a 5 year old son who has the oddest behavior. 5 days a week its a fight from hell to get him out the bed and ready for daycare around 0630. Weekend though....he gets up before that all by himself. then gets us....I can do more before 0800 on a Saturday than some people do all day lol. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
403
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Posted - 2015.04.27 03:55:23 -
[57] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Players like myself would be impacted severely as I invent, haul, manufacture, occasionally mine, run explo sites and combat anoms, manage PI and market orders. I actually don't get time for PvP even if I wanted too.
Hauling, inventing, managing market orders or manufacturing would not be penalized, since these all need farmed materials first.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Madd Adda
76
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Posted - 2015.04.27 04:06:27 -
[58] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Players like myself would be impacted severely as I invent, haul, manufacture, occasionally mine, run explo sites and combat anoms, manage PI and market orders. I actually don't get time for PvP even if I wanted too. Hauling, inventing, managing market orders or manufacturing would not be penalized, since these all need farmed materials first.
the issue is the fact that CCP would need to first announce the change first, which would lead to mass hording of supplies and from there eve becomes a seller's market.
I'll reiterate what I said earlier, either have timers on PVE and PVP (ship combat/engagement) or have neither at all. It's not fair for the rest of us who don't want to pvp and would rather quit.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2794
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Posted - 2015.04.27 04:34:41 -
[59] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:I can't believe that some people are so dumb to mention trading despite I explicitly told not to. Trading creates no ISK or material of any kind. Can only be performed via interacting other player. If you are left alone while trading, you make zero ISK, while you make maximum ISK if left alone while doing PvE.
Also, this suggestion would decrease trading income, as less materials would be traded and more people would turn to trading after their PvE time is out.
Just because you said we can't doesn't mean it is forbidden. You are not ISD, you are not a Dev, your are just a player like the rest of...your overbearing ignorance aside.
Trading cannot be performed if some player somewhere does not create the material. The isk supply has to grow if the player base is growing otherwise there will be deflation. You really are ignorant of fundamental economic concepts.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2794
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Posted - 2015.04.27 04:39:39 -
[60] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Players like myself would be impacted severely as I invent, haul, manufacture, occasionally mine, run explo sites and combat anoms, manage PI and market orders. I actually don't get time for PvP even if I wanted too. Hauling, inventing, managing market orders or manufacturing would not be penalized, since these all need farmed materials first.
Hauling, inventing and the like would be impacted because the farming would be impacted. Look, go back and re-read your economics on general equilibrium theory. ALL markets are connected. All of them. Even if you don't participate in say the datacore market, if that market is impacted it will have consequences BEYOND the datacore market. This isn't high level economics. You don't need to have studied dynamic models using optimal control theory or get out something like Kakutani's fixed point theorem...this is something you learn in your second semester of undergraduate economics. You know where you start to learn about complementary and substitute goods and that markets are interconnected.
Go back to graphing time series data and drawing dubious causality conclusions from that nonsense.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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