Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 23:54:48 -
[1] - Quote
Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff.
I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky.
Yes, I know how to fit my industrial ship. I also know how to MWD/cloak/warp. Yes, I know I could just go play in Null. That's not the issue.
What I am really concerned about is a fundamental shift in the balance of the game for new players. We all like that EVE is a harsh environment, but I think things may have gotten too hostile now and we will lose even more new players than before.
So, my questions are:
- Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately?
- If so, how are you adapting?
Personally, I am taking a break from EVE because I feel like I can't enjoy the game on weekends and I am now too limited in my choice of play styles. |
Paranoid Loyd
4619
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:14:48 -
[2] - Quote
No, there has been no increase, you getting ganked once does not mean there was an increase.
There is however a lot more propaganda and crying going on due to the organization/consolidation of a large ganking group that makes isk from the propaganda. So, it may seem like there is more ganking but the reality is it hasn't changed much.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:18:31 -
[3] - Quote
I didn't say "once". Why would you make that comment?
So, the answer for you is "No, I have not seen an increase". Thank you for your reply. |
Paranoid Loyd
4619
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:19:11 -
[4] - Quote
There's this thing called a killboard, when I look at it, you were ganked once. You don't need to say anything.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:20:16 -
[5] - Quote
I have multiple accounts. Like almost everyone else. Think, man. |
Paranoid Loyd
4619
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:20:57 -
[6] - Quote
And I bet they were all in retrivers, and were very easy to gank, get a Procurer, think man.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:24:04 -
[7] - Quote
You're just looking for an argument. Do you want to win? I declare you the winner. Do you feel better now?
If anyone else has insight and experience to share, please do. |
Oxide Ammar
197
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:33:46 -
[8] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:And I bet they were all in retrivers, and were very easy to gank, get a Procurer, think man.
I have better proposal for you, make a thread requesting CCP to delete Retriever and Covetor, since by your logic is Procurer or die...
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
|
Paranoid Loyd
4619
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:36:43 -
[9] - Quote
Using any of them is fine, but if you are going to quit the game because you can't figure out how to deal with gankers or can't be bothered to pay attention, then you should use a Procurer.
And don't tell me you were paying attention because you got podded, people who are paying attention certainly don't get podded.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:37:51 -
[10] - Quote
Well, that's actually part of the question. Are retrievers even viable anymore? I use a skiff in null, but will have to get another for high now. Have I just ben lucky flying retrievers in high for years or have things drastically changed? Most of my losses have actually been with Nereus, ittyV, Mammoth, Kryos, and such. But i won't fly retriever these days.
And I've proposed no logic, I've just asked a question. What is everyone else seeing around this issue, if anything? |
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Again, I've just asked a question. Seriously, your hostility is baffling. |
Paranoid Loyd
4619
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:42:13 -
[12] - Quote
The thing is, when you tank a Retriever, you lose the yield gained and it is more efficient to use a Procurer. You will have to make more trips to the station/POS but if you can't afford to lose your ship or simply don't want to lose your ship then your logical option is to use a Procurer.
Alternatively you can fit a Retriever with a higgs rig, and mine aligned with a max yield fit and just make sure you don't take your eyes off the screen.
Whiskey Haze wrote:your hostility is baffling. Quitting the game instead of figuring out how to play it properly baffles me.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:45:11 -
[13] - Quote
I know that.
That wasn't the question.
You already answered the question.
Your answer was "No, I have not seen an increase in highsec ganking".
Thank you for your input.
|
Paranoid Loyd
4620
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:48:23 -
[14] - Quote
Whiskey Haze wrote:That wasn't the question.
Whiskey Haze wrote: Are retrievers even viable anymore? You didn't ask this question?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
840
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 07:22:14 -
[15] - Quote
Whiskey Haze wrote:Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff.
I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/
If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back.
You were just lucky before, or unlucky now.
Fly a tanked ship, or pay attention. This is the choice CCP wants to force on you by thier intentional inclusion of suicide ganking as a risk in highsec.
The clone cost had nothing to do with it. Pods are 100% savable in high and low sec (barring technical glitches or exteme drunkenness) and CONCORD does not pod anyway, so the pod clone costs are not a factor that influences ganking. |
Capsups
Tyrannosaurus Rekt.
12
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 08:24:13 -
[16] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Whiskey Haze wrote:Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff.
I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/ If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back. You were just lucky before, or unlucky now.
Uhhh?
2012 average: 9160 2013 average: 18955 2014 average: 25584 2015 average (so far): 28707
That's a 313% increase in concord kills over 3 years and 3 months. Not exactly the most stable of numbers. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
840
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 08:55:24 -
[17] - Quote
Capsups wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Whiskey Haze wrote:Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff.
I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/ If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back. You were just lucky before, or unlucky now. Uhhh? 2012 average: 9160 2013 average: 18955 2014 average: 25584 2015 average (so far): 28707 That's a 313% increase in concord kills over 3 years and 3 months. Not exactly the most stable of numbers. So to answer OP's question, yes, it seems there's an increase in ganking going on according to the CONCORD stats.
For most of 2012 the api was not providing CONCORD kills to the killboards. March 2015 had less CONCORD kills than April 2013. It perhaps is trending upwards (probably due to the multi-kills on freighter gankers), but it isn't extremely different within the variation. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5118
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:11:49 -
[18] - Quote
Clone costs aren't an issue with ganking.
Concord don't Pod.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5315
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:16:49 -
[19] - Quote
If you plot the concord data it's definitely showing a general upward trend, so I'd have to go with "Yes, there's an increase in ganking". It would take a considerably deeper look to be sure though, as concord kills are indicative of how many gank ships were lost, not how many actual ganks took place. If I can ever find a good way of getting at bulk kill data, I'll look into it more closely.
EDIT: Oh and I transported 12b through highsec in a single run with a T1 unfit cruiser yesterday and didn't explode, so I guess it's not everywhere. :D
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 14:33:42 -
[20] - Quote
Thanks for the thoughtful comments. It had not occurred to me that Concord does not pod, so it is extremely doubtful that there is a relationship there.
Just speaking anecdotally to other industry players, there is a general "feel" that there is more ganking activity in highsec, but analytics is definitely the best way to know, so thanks for injecting that insight.
I think the comment that I was lucky before and just unlucky lately may be accurate. I'll give things a little time and see how it plays out. I never afk mine or autopilot. Except during "Golden Girls" because, you know.
See you all out there. And listen for my drunken battle cries of "Don't Shoot!" and "Not in the Face!"
|
|
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1589
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 15:08:49 -
[21] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Whiskey Haze wrote:your hostility is baffling. Quitting the game instead of figuring out how to play it properly baffles me. Can you provide link to CCP approved set of rules to play Eve Online? I fear after playing 5 years this game i have never read them let alone recall anything....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 15:27:29 -
[22] - Quote
Whiskey Haze wrote:
- Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately?
- If so, how are you adapting?
- Not really, although having said that I did lose a Blockade Runner in Uttindar (0.5) a few weeks ago, first time I was ever ganked in high-sec.
But the fact I was drinking tea AND was side on to my screen, (I was watching t.v) when I did finally did react (after placing my cup of tea calmy down so as not to spill liquid on my shiny new keyboard) my shileds where at 30% and instead of crashing the gate I just came through I was trying to sub-light to my next gate I could and should have survived, I was 'hi-sec' lazy.
- Since then I have overhauled my overview: made a permanent spot for D-scan, added biomass to the travel tab and a few other nik-naks.
Other than that, EvE life continues as normal
|
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
38
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 16:48:40 -
[23] - Quote
I've done quite a bit of hauling and mining over the years in highsec, and from what I can tell - gankers are getting more coordinated and concentrating on their most profitable locations (jita, udaema, njarja) but otherwise ganking elsewhere isn't anything much to worry about unless you have a fail fit.
I see players solo mining in hulks and macks all the time in 0.5 system and I chat with them about why they aren't using a skiff instead....I nearly always hear that getting ganked is just a cost of doing business or that the high yield pays for the ganked ships. I check local killboards and its always the hulks and macks getting killed, and when you look at the details - most of them have under 15K ehp and are in max-yield fit.
Similarly for hauling, other than jita, nearly all the kills I see are for t1 industrials - especially those carrying >100M isk which really should have been moved in a t2 transport. Yes, freighter killing season happens on/off in the gank points but freighter pilots are making the decision they want the high paying courier jobs to go through them. Not a problem. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
83
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 16:52:58 -
[24] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Whiskey Haze wrote:Have the rest of you been seeing extreme changes in the amount of highsec ganking lately? It seems to me that due to the removal of clone cost, it has become too risky to fly an industrial ship or mine in anything but a procurer or skiff.
I've been playing for years without losing a ship in highsec while in an NPC corp, but I have lost multiple ships in the last month. It seems that flying an industrial ship with anything more than 10k of cargo has become too risky. There is no increase in ganking lately: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/ If you look at CONCORD kills they are remarkably stable since the killboard API function allied them to be reliably pulled. That means they are probably still at an all-time low as remarked on by Dr. Eyjo in the CSM minutes a few years back.
Actually these stats are completely useless wrt. judjing the state of hauler ganking (and that's what the OP is talking about). The vast majority of haulers are being ganked in range of gate or station guns and if the gank ship is being destroyed by the gate guns before CONCORD arrives, it simply doesn't show up in above metrics and that number is significant.
While I'm typing this, I noticed that zkillboard.com is currently repopulating their data to also show ship losses from sentrygun fire only (thanks a lot for this!). These gank ship losses didn't show up at all before. We'll soon have a much better estimate how the situation really is.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3287
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 18:47:11 -
[25] - Quote
I notice that the Value of ships destroyed by CONCORD is not going up. But the number is. This indicate that: The gankers are using more cheaper ships to do the job, and/or They are using more free rookie ships to relocate CONCORD.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
842
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 19:12:58 -
[26] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I notice that the Value of ships destroyed by CONCORD is not going up. But the number is. This indicate that: The gankers are using more cheaper ships to do the job, and/or They are using more free rookie ships to relocate CONCORD. Indeed. And the numbers also should be normalized by the number of players online to give a fairer number if we are doing this right.
But the main thing they say ganking hasn't spiked or dropped several-fold or anything since these numbers were being recorded by zKillboard. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
279
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 02:05:58 -
[27] - Quote
Whiskey Haze wrote:
- Have the rest of you been suffering higher losses in highsec lately?
- If so, how are you adapting?
1) No. I've seen much less of the big packs that could take down hardened targets since loyalanon went on to other things. I have seen some new and effective gankers in one area I frequent which have an impact on soft targets. And Hyperdunking adds a new element of risk to freighters.
2) Same as always -- make sure I have adequate tank if I think trouble is around. Make sure I'm not the easiest target. Get to know the locals. I chat with people in local including gankers, but I don't trash talk. Keep cargo value reasonable. Check Dotlan before hauling through known trouble spots. Don't AP through known trouble spots. Use insta-docks and insta-undocks.
I don't mind the gankers. I respect the effort they put into the game and I think they make things more interesting. Awoxers are a different story.
|
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 04:00:54 -
[28] - Quote
Checking Dotlan is a habit I need to get into. Thanks, Shiloh. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
399
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 16:37:26 -
[29] - Quote
A few old corpmates and I have re-subbed about 3 weeks ago. We have been mining extensively. We have been doing courier missions, even into low sec, extensively. We have been hauling in T1 indy's, freighter caravans (3) in hi sec, and jump freighters (2) and transports (3) in and out of low sec/hi sec. We have been doing security missions extensively in hi sec. We have been doing PI in low sec and hauling to hi sec with those same transports and jump freighters.
If anything, we have noticed ZERO attempts to gank us, steal our salvage, or to be harassed in any way. In fact, on one courier mission in low sec, I exited the station and saw two cruisers within attack range. I was ready to re-enter the station, but they warped off as if they didn't want the transport ship kill. They didn't even attempt a lock. I figured at best, they'd camp the station and I'd have to clone jump out to make them bored and leave. But ... they warped off, apparently disinterested.
Dudes, our cyno alts are not being killed/podded!!! Huh, wha ?!?!?
That being said, we fly heavily tanked Macks and Battle Orca with shield harmonic thingy on mining ops, and historically, are known to survive gank attempts in 0.5 sysytems, i.e., we are not profitable. Before, the gankers that were well know to us left us alone, and those who made attempts with "min necessary" set-ups, soon learned we are not easy targets. But now? Go figure? We expected SOME attempts!
We have seen plenty of roaming reds in low sec, but that is as it was before and to be expected and not the concern of the OP.
The only difference that MAY explain this, at least that we see, is the lower population. When we quit, 55-60K online were typical. Now, what, 30K on the weekend, 22K on off times? At least, this is what we are seeing at times when we play.
So if there is an increase in gankage, we do not see it ... yet.
|
Trader WindMaster
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 17:02:39 -
[30] - Quote
OP I thought I was noticing an increase in high sec ganks too. Unfortunately, like you, my evidence is only anecdotal.
That being said, there is a lot of hostility in this thread. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |