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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:18:00 -
[1]
hey hey
So far they are weirding me out. Ive noticed the following
1) each NPC kill has so far dropped a wreck 100% of the time. Frigates Drop "small angel wreckage" 2) wrecks drop like cargo containers and dont pop when emptied. 3) wreck icons are like the Beacon icons but dont show system wide 4) Self destructed ships drop a wreck but didnt drop and cargo(possible bug) (hurricane with full fitting + ammo/missiles / mods in cargo 14.6mil default uninsured payout) wreckage named "minmatar battlecruiser wreckage" 5) POD LEFT A WRECK ? 6) wreckage was namable Via "set name" option but no name was changed (possible bug) 7) wrecks have corp tags like normal cargo cans (flaging not tested yet) im assuming that the item wrecked will determine the possible salvaged items.
Q. what will a pod salvage ? Q. by having 100% wrecks dropped doesnt this by default create even more lag. even cleared of argo still leaves a wreck so looting a mission and choosing not to salvage will have items in space and therefore lots of DB items ? Q. Please can we have the Salvager Module seeded to actually do some salvage testing. Q. Is there any specific testing thats needed.
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Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:30:00 -
[2]
It would be nice if they used the old can icon, it was simply a lot easier to see. Shooting a wreck makes it fade away so no smoke animation.
I have a feeling a wreck will be time limited in space just like cans. If you get too much lag and don't want to salvage just shoot the wrecks.
Maybe pods will give some nice brain substance component needed for rigs. Did you check if the corpse was in the wreck or outside?
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Pabs Sco
Caldari Ecosse
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:37:00 -
[3]
Wrecks dont pop once you take the loot.
They only pop when you salvage them, or shoot them ------
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Mephysto
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:41:00 -
[4]
Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:45:00 -
[5]
corpse was outside the wreck. so people can still add to their collections.
Thinking about it more; Its the Capsule that leaves a wreck and the pilot still becomes the corpse. so no implants from pod wrecks :( However, imagine after a fleet fight. Wrecks of ships & Capsules all littering space :/
i sense even more lag :(
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I have a feeling a wreck will be time limited in space just like cans. If you get too much lag and don't want to salvage just shoot the wrecks.
Problem with that is that most people use an indie with tractor beams for looting, and the DPS of tractor beams isn't exactly stellar... Maybe an option for 'Destroy wrecks after looting' ? If you actually want to salvage you can always turn it off. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Temo Jick
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:05:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Temo Jick on 27/10/2006 12:06:39
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I have a feeling a wreck will be time limited in space just like cans. If you get too much lag and don't want to salvage just shoot the wrecks.
Problem with that is that most people use an indie with tractor beams for looting, and the DPS of tractor beams isn't exactly stellar... Maybe an option for 'Destroy wrecks after looting' ? If you actually want to salvage you can always turn it off.
The do? no one told me and my corpmates that. Non of us use indies for looting, far to slow. Catalist Vexor and exequror can all be set up as grate looters. But no worries if you realy need insane amounts of cargo space for what ever your looting the mammoth and the iteron v both have two high slots and wrecks have less hp then cans.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:35:00 -
[8]
Yeah some lvl4 missions drop 'slightly' more loot than an Exequror can carry. And you must be joking about putting in a gun into the second tractor slot? Thats like hacking off your hand to heal a cut in your little finger... What it will come down to is people looting as they do now and renaming the looted wrecks, or not looting at all anymore. In any case we will have a whole lot more wrecks floating around than we got cans now. If that will affect performance? I wouldn't know but it doesn't feel good. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Voin
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mephysto Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.
Give us a salvage modules...
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Helen Baque
Gallente Baque Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mikal Drey 6) wreckage was namable Via "set name" option but no name was changed (possible bug)
That's not Kali-specific, I've had that on TQ with ordinary can drops. (I haven't tested it recently, but it was a problem a week or so ago.
-- I already have a girlfriend. Her name is EVE. ;-) |
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MindBender
Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:37:00 -
[11]
I blew up a Amarr dread on Sisi and I have to admin, the wreck was awesome looking, didn't get much of a chance to do much else with it... but was a nice addition in front of the station. Now here's a question, what's to prevent someone from buying ships, blowing them up to get wreck parts? I mean it's expensive, but the materials they get could be possibly more valuable than the price of the ship.
Does the type of the ship affect the type of the stuff you get from the wreck for the rig?
What's to prevent a player popping Rifters all day to get an item that worth more than the rifter?
Just some things I thought of after I popped that dread...
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petergriffen
Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:43:00 -
[12]
Does shooting the leftovers of a non-corpmate ship in empire trigger concord as shooting cans does? maybe blowing up a wrecked ship w/ cargo in the hold just drops the can would be a good idea, so wrecked ships aren't left laying around. Unless the hope is that people will flock to salvage ships for the wrecks... Even then, does salvaging a neutral wrecked ship in empire trigger concord? :)
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Voin
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:07:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Voin on 27/10/2006 16:12:27
Originally by: Mephysto Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers.
Forgot to ask you earlier? Why we have to study new skill as a Salvage? We already have Analyzer I and Codebreaker I useless modules with their skills... Don't waste our time by tricky new skill and modules! And don't tell me please what those module's usefull cause of couple of COSMOS mission's...
P.S. If you want insert new modules that much, think about Medium and Large Tractor beam I, those'll be much usefull modules in the EvE...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:43:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 27/10/2006 16:44:25 I see an added problems with the non disapparence of wrecks. In some mission (especially some COSMOS complex) the number of can is so high to create a "fog" of cans while fighting. To the point that I, and most other pilot doing those missions, pile all the useless lot in 1 can to clear the space a little, even during combat (removing the cans from overview helps, but if you are searching for the can with the "spoiled drugs" or 3 units of "stholen goods" you need to access the cans the same, and while the enemyes costantly respawn). So a wreck that last 1 hour can be a pain, and destroing it use 1 gun, and can aggro CONCORD if you do that on another player discarded wreck.
Maybe changing the colour of your looted wrecks can be the easy solution. Green = not looted, white = looted, yellow = another player can.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:53:00 -
[15]
The looted versus unlooted wrecks is going to be a big problem, and shooting them doesn't look to be a sufficient solution.
BTW, good job starting a new topic for wreck issues! Got a stickie and some Mephysto info, well done. But let me share the link to the topic where we've been discussing this stuff for the last two days; it was dying even before this one got stickied for lack of new input, but it's got some info that you'll want to see if you're interested in this thread.
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Aquila Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:59:00 -
[16]
I wish/hope self-destructing will leave no wreck at all. A way to tell your oponent "hell no you're not getting my ****" and the self-destruct sequense totally obliterates your ship.
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
infraX
Caldari Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.10.27 18:43:00 -
[17]
Well I self destructed a Thanatos and my pod got stuck and I couldn't navigate or warp. I submitted it as a petition for being stuck and as a bug that shouldn't have happened. I got no response...
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:18:00 -
[18]
Boy, that sticky lasted less than three hours. There really was one, I promise.
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Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:25:00 -
[19]
anyone building salvage rigs?
I can fit one to test, but can not find one.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:49:00 -
[20]
signed, more scavenging! :)
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Contralia
Federation of Freedom Fighters EVE Alliance9673
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
5) POD LEFT A WRECK ?
Implant salvage?
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Ineeh
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:01:00 -
[22]
Did anyone try a tractor beam on a wreck ? I hope they are still able to move wreck, or looting will become a real pain
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Giddions Clone
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:35:00 -
[23]
does this mean taht u wont be able to collect loot from kills unless you can salvage? and doesn salvaging need survay lvl 5? so anyone that wants loot from kills will have to train survay lvl 5?
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Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:00:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Pakalolo on 27/10/2006 22:03:54 you can open a wreck just like any loot can and get your basic loot without rigging or skills. if you want the new items from the wreck, you will need at least salvage 1 (3? 4 for t2?) to fit the salvage rig module. and yes salvage requires survey 5.
edit: I ran a regular lvl4 mission on sisi - Duo of Death. This mission requires a specific item to be dropped by an npc and returned to agent. this item was dropped in a standard loot can (not a wreck) and was very easy to spot - so I didn't have to search all the wrecks to find it. the item was in the only 'cargo container' in the area!
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Monica Foulkes
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:51:00 -
[25]
Now when we have wrecks, can you please increase the storage capacity so frighters can start drop loot as well? And to prevent the issue with 2000 shuttles enter space (and kill a node), make ships held in cargo stay in the wreck and not get auto assembled in space until explicitly told so using drag and drop for example.
The 8h skill buffer |
Turq
Minmatar GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.10.28 17:09:00 -
[26]
I haven't noted a size or cargo space of wrecks. I think this is a solution so frieghters will drop a wreck. Getting friends to haul it all might be an issue.
Need to test this though. -sig- |
paddy1125
Gallente The Spirit Clan
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Posted - 2006.10.28 18:52:00 -
[27]
I am hoping that cans are not gone altogether. You can still jettosn cans cant you, given that wreks now spawn as well as, or is it in place of? If its in place of, may god have mercy on the miners. ___________________________________________________________
(\_/) (O.o) Copy the bunny into your signature, (> <) to help him achieve world domination. |
Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.28 19:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Maybe changing the colour of your looted wrecks can be the easy solution.
Separate types in overview? If you have no intention on salvaging you just tick Unlooted wreck. But either way, coloring them would rock.
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Amaron Ghant
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Amaron Ghant on 29/10/2006 11:32:47
Originally by: paddy1125 I am hoping that cans are not gone altogether. You can still jettosn cans cant you, given that wreks now spawn as well as, or is it in place of? If its in place of, may god have mercy on the miners.
I think the real miners will adapt, it¦s the macro miners that are likely to have a hissy fit, but who cares about them anyway
Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!!
Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner |
Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:04:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 29/10/2006 14:05:53
The transition from ship to wreck looks a little shoddy.
The wreck could do with appearing inside the explosion not next to it (also it seemed to appear slightly before the explosion which looks pants)
----------
- Office Linebacker -
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Makaera Koshito
Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:07:00 -
[31]
If wrecks are replacing cans, how will this affect killing Freighters? Are wrecks the answer to this?
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zoltar
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Posted - 2006.10.29 22:06:00 -
[32]
I self destructed 2 freighters on test server, didnt drop any wreck.
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Bone
Amarr Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 08:06:00 -
[33]
(I can't get on test, but am curious)
If wrecks cannot be destroyed, how does this work if you pop multiple ships at the undocking point of a station? Surely this will make it almost impossible to put up a fight if you cannot move when undocking? ...Fish in a Barrel anyone?
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Directive
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Posted - 2006.10.30 12:32:00 -
[34]
About the naming issue;
Currently on TQ, if I "Set Name..." a can, I have to close and reopen the overview for the name to update. Maybe that same issue still exists on the Sisi builds?
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:12:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Sphynx Stormlord on 30/10/2006 14:14:21 After running a single mission on the test server, I can say that it will be a rare occurance for me to loot missions in the future if wrecks are put in as they are.
Previously, looting had slightly more mouse clicks than I liked, and looting large missions could cause noticible rsi pains. Currently, when looting with a tractor beam, each can requires: .ctrl click the can in either overview or space to lock it function key activated to use tractor beam .click to select can on overview .click to open can ctrl-a to select all the items in the can .click and drag to move the loot to cargo bay 4 clicks per can, and clicking on buttons in the top right of the screen and the lower middle.
Kali will be adding: .click to unlock empty wreck and a confusion as to which wrecks have been looted. If one has a salvage module, it probably adds a click or two to do the salvaging as well as the looting.
I would very much like to have less rather than more clicks involved in the looting process, either using hotkeys, or a more streamlined process. For example, there could be an option on cans or wrecks similar to the 'scoop to dronebay' option on drones, which would move all the contents of that can or wreck to ones cargo bay (only failing if ones cargo bay isnt large enough)
Even better would be an auto-looting tractor beam, that puts the contents of a can or wreck into ones cargo bay as soon as the item is close enough.
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Sakhun Adal
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Posted - 2006.10.30 15:03:00 -
[36]
I used to destroy all the cans (after looting the BS ones) to minimize the lag. If one can't pop the wrecks....I bet a system will become very laggy after 2-3h of intensive hunting.
Can one use a tractor beem to get the wreck closer? I cant test it since the server is down :(
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DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord ....
I would very much like to have less rather than more clicks involved in the looting process, either using hotkeys, or a more streamlined process. For example, there could be an option on cans or wrecks similar to the 'scoop to dronebay' option on drones, which would move all the contents of that can or wreck to ones cargo bay (only failing if ones cargo bay isnt large enough)
Even better would be an auto-looting tractor beam, that puts the contents of a can or wreck into ones cargo bay as soon as the item is close enough.
/signed !
Indeed the current amount of clicks when looting is high, with salvaging it might be even more. Looking forward to a smart T2?? tractor beam.
Fly safe
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Evol1
J.H.E.N.R Pure.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:10:00 -
[38]
I wasted a lot of ammo trying to shoot/pop a wreck. It didn't appear to take any damage. That goes for both player and NPC wrecks. I self destructed a BS and it left a wreck with no loot, then couldn't shoot the wreck (took no damage) It's gonna be a mess if wreck upon wreck gets piled up and only a "wrecker" can scoop it up.
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Turq
Minmatar GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.10.30 18:05:00 -
[39]
I destroyed a wreck, from a Rohk I had ejected from and blown up with a hurricane..
-sig- |
Jezra Olmerga
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Posted - 2006.10.30 18:24:00 -
[40]
Got many Wrecks, but: - which ship should be used for salvaging? - which modules must be fitted?
Thx
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Monica Foulkes
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: zoltar I self destructed 2 freighters on test server, didnt drop any wreck.
I wonder if that was due to the bug described in point 4 by the OP or if freighters just behave as they always have done? Any chance you can eject from the frighter and blow it up with another ship instead?
As for blowing up wrecks, they have the same hitpoints as cans.
The 8h skill buffer |
Skarraza
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord Even better would be an auto-looting tractor beam, that puts the contents of a can or wreck into ones cargo bay as soon as the item is close enough.
To me, having the tractor beam pull the entire can to you at a constant speed, regardless of it's total mass always seemed a bit odd. It will seem even more so if you drag a wreck to you. The whole point of a wreck is that its a pile of whats left over - which is what the images even look like. So how would we expect a tractor beam to maintain the integrity of the wreck???
I think rather than dragging wrecks to you, the tractor beam should permit you to loot the cans from that distance. They could change the tractor beam so that it gives a constant (passive) benefit, or just that it has to be turned on and drawing cap.
It would be great if they could also cut down on the number of clicks. A shortcut for "drag everything to my cargo" would be awesome.
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Lefia
Gallente CONsordium Infinate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:49:00 -
[43]
I think an option to autodestroy wreck upon looting is definately a neccecity for those who don't want to bother with scavaging them. It would also go a long way to preventing lots of empty wrecks from hanging around in space.
As for the deal with blowing up lots and lots of rifters to make a profit... I don't see how this could be any more effective than just mining. Surely mining would probably be a lot less tedious (amazingly); and in the long run I highly doubt that any gain on salvaging an insured self destructed shift would be worth the time investment. I would imagine it's a fairly low gain as it stands.
Originally by: hired goon I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had.
do
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.10.31 07:05:00 -
[44]
Maybe vaporizing a wreck should carry a 3% chance of creating a temporary gas cloud.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.31 09:50:00 -
[45]
Last time I was able to enter Sisi the salvage module wasn't jet available. To address some of the above problem, a combo tractor beam/salvage module can be a solution, or to be more clear, giving to salvage module the ability to tractor the wreck. As thing stand, a dedicate salvager in a slow ship need to use 2 modules: 1 high for the tractor beam, and another for the salvage module (a middle i think). That will be a big nerfing for the PvE players , the ones that have the greatest chance to have big numbers of wrecks.
PS: I will be very unahppy to shoot unlooted/unsalvaged wrecks only to clear the space a little, some of the best loot I have found (faction items and BPC) came from frigates NPC rats.
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Za Po
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.31 14:34:00 -
[46]
Hmm... even if the number of wrecks is equal to the number of cans in the current system... if the wrecks don't pop when looted, they are going to be considerably more numerous at any given moment.
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Inairin
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Posted - 2006.11.01 22:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Za Po Hmm... even if the number of wrecks is equal to the number of cans in the current system... if the wrecks don't pop when looted, they are going to be considerably more numerous at any given moment.
you'll have gimps like me trying yet another failed method to making my living off them by going around with a salvage kitted ship, popping the wrecks. then realizing i get more money from mining veldspar and the place will be so clouded with wrecks you will get bumped 1500 AU out of the solar system before stopping.
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Cpt Silance
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Posted - 2006.11.02 06:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord Edited by: Sphynx Stormlord on 30/10/2006 14:14:21 After running a single mission on the test server, I can say that it will be a rare occurance for me to loot missions in the future if wrecks are put in as they are.
Previously, looting had slightly more mouse clicks than I liked, and looting large missions could cause noticible rsi pains. Currently, when looting with a tractor beam, each can requires: .ctrl click the can in either overview or space to lock it function key activated to use tractor beam .click to select can on overview .click to open can ctrl-a to select all the items in the can .click and drag to move the loot to cargo bay 4 clicks per can, and clicking on buttons in the top right of the screen and the lower middle.
Kali will be adding: .click to unlock empty wreck and a confusion as to which wrecks have been looted. If one has a salvage module, it probably adds a click or two to do the salvaging as well as the looting.
I would very much like to have less rather than more clicks involved in the looting process, either using hotkeys, or a more streamlined process. For example, there could be an option on cans or wrecks similar to the 'scoop to dronebay' option on drones, which would move all the contents of that can or wreck to ones cargo bay (only failing if ones cargo bay isnt large enough)
Even better would be an auto-looting tractor beam, that puts the contents of a can or wreck into ones cargo bay as soon as the item is close enough.
This looks a lot like a whine about being dificoult to set up a macro, especialy the part where you whine about diferent and far in between places to click on the screen. |
Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.02 17:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cpt Silance
This looks a lot like a whine about being dificoult to set up a macro, especialy the part where you whine about diferent and far in between places to click on the screen.
I wouldn't go throwing accusations like that. There are a lot of people with RSI problems, and minimal mouse movements are an integral part of ergonomics.
I also vote for the auto-popping of emtpy wrecks, maybe as a user option.
A combined tractor/salvage high slot module would be great!
Auto-looting with a tractor beam is also a plus.
- Got grief?
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Cpt Silance
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Posted - 2006.11.02 19:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Andargor theWise
Originally by: Cpt Silance
This looks a lot like a whine about being dificoult to set up a macro, especialy the part where you whine about diferent and far in between places to click on the screen.
I wouldn't go throwing accusations like that. There are a lot of people with RSI problems, and minimal mouse movements are an integral part of ergonomics.
I also vote for the auto-popping of emtpy wrecks, maybe as a user option.
A combined tractor/salvage high slot module would be great!
Auto-looting with a tractor beam is also a plus.
I'm sorry if you missunderstode(sp) me or maybe i missunderstude(sp), but i tought that EVE was a MMORPG, meaning that you play WITH other people.
The way i see it, with wreks the Devs are trying to get more people to work and play together, say i'm a salvege I'll kill to be with one of the mission runers so i could salvage, like 20-30 wreks after 1 mission and i could help with his loot giving the mission runner time to consentrate on killing his targets and finishing the mission quickly = morre ISK. Both Salveger/Looter and Mission Runner WIN! |
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.02 21:15:00 -
[51]
So were I find someone willing to spen an afrenoon running after my wreks? Hardly fun. And he need a god set of skill too.
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.11.02 21:43:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cpt Silance
This looks a lot like a whine about being dificoult to set up a macro, especialy the part where you whine about diferent and far in between places to click on the screen.
While I have not tried to set up any macros, if there are activities in the game that are not fun, and agravate rsi due to repetative clicks doing what is basically a repetative task, why are they there? Why not improve the interface so that no one would be tempted to set up macros.
Good gameplay should involve decisions, idealy interesting ones, not repetative actions that people might want to macro.
so: Autopilot: good - allows one to do something that would otherwise be repetative with one click Mining: bad - nothing but turning game time into isk with no fun value; hauling ore for some miners realy messed up my hands once, never doing that again. Looting: bad as currently implented; see my earlier post.
Anything that reduces the repetative aspects of eve with respect to either gameplay or interface is an improvement; less repetative stuff = less desire for macros from those who make or use them.
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Cpt Silance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
Originally by: Cpt Silance
This looks a lot like a whine about being dificoult to set up a macro, especialy the part where you whine about diferent and far in between places to click on the screen.
While I have not tried to set up any macros, if there are activities in the game that are not fun, and agravate rsi due to repetative clicks doing what is basically a repetative task, why are they there? Why not improve the interface so that no one would be tempted to set up macros.
Good gameplay should involve decisions, idealy interesting ones, not repetative actions that people might want to macro.
so: Autopilot: good - allows one to do something that would otherwise be repetative with one click Mining: bad - nothing but turning game time into isk with no fun value; hauling ore for some miners realy messed up my hands once, never doing that again. Looting: bad as currently implented; see my earlier post.
Anything that reduces the repetative aspects of eve with respect to either gameplay or interface is an improvement; less repetative stuff = less desire for macros from those who make or use them.
Have you Ever played any game. I want you to name just 1 MMO game that is not repetetive, hell i want you to name 1 Single/Multi player game that is not repetetive. PvP = Lock Targe, Engage Weapons - F1,F2,F3..., Activate Tank Alt+F1, Alt+F2...., repeat till no more targets or you're dead, go back to station get a new ship, rince and repeat.
I think you're whining just for the hell of it. " Oh god i can't insta loot all my kills, i want it changed."
BTW, what is RSI?
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Cpt Silance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 06:06:00 -
[54]
Have you ever mined with say more than just yourself or 1-2 people. While mining you have a lot of time to chat with all your m8s, discusing Industrial plans, PvP anf Fleet tactics, ***** on the Forums.
Eve is a social game, if you want a fast moving space game, that doesn't involve socialising try out Freelancer it's a good game with a lot mods out there to suite almost everyone. And it has an Outo-Loot butten. |
Avrunath
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Posted - 2006.11.03 11:54:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Avrunath on 03/11/2006 11:57:24 Edited by: Avrunath on 03/11/2006 11:54:51 Edited by: Avrunath on 03/11/2006 11:54:36
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Maybe changing the colour of your looted wrecks can be the easy solution. Green = not looted, white = looted, yellow = another player can.
/signed
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bonesbro
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Posted - 2006.11.03 22:11:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Cpt Silance
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
Originally by: Cpt Silance
This looks a lot like a whine about being dificoult to set up a macro, especialy the part where you whine about diferent and far in between places to click on the screen.
While I have not tried to set up any macros, if there are activities in the game that are not fun, and agravate rsi due to repetative clicks doing what is basically a repetative task, why are they there? Why not improve the interface so that no one would be tempted to set up macros.
Good gameplay should involve decisions, idealy interesting ones, not repetative actions that people might want to macro.
Anything that reduces the repetative aspects of eve with respect to either gameplay or interface is an improvement; less repetative stuff = less desire for macros from those who make or use them.
Have you Ever played any game. I want you to name just 1 MMO game that is not repetetive, hell i want you to name 1 Single/Multi player game that is not repetetive. PvP = Lock Targe, Engage Weapons - F1,F2,F3..., Activate Tank Alt+F1, Alt+F2...., repeat till no more targets or you're dead, go back to station get a new ship, rince and repeat.
I think you're whining just for the hell of it. " Oh god i can't insta loot all my kills, i want it changed."
BTW, what is RSI?
RSI = Repetative Stress Injury. Like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome or Tendonitis.
I stopped playing EVE because it is physically painful. While I enjoy the game, it is one of the most painful games for me to play. This is primarily because it is so mouse-centric. Common game actions require constant clicking and dragging. That hurts. In most MMOs you can press a key or two instead of reaching over to the mouse, moving it around, clicking, dragging, etc.
UI changes that require more steps to accomplish a task make the game more painful for someone with an injury. The salvaging changes described here appear to have that problem.
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.11.04 00:20:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Sphynx Stormlord on 04/11/2006 00:21:05
Originally by: Cpt Silance
/snip ignorant insults BTW, what is RSI?
Personally I recomend www.google.com or en.wikipedia.org for 'what is ...?' questions, rather than insulting people by ignoring the medical condition they are talking about and making assumptions that they are just whining.
As someone else has pointed out, RSI (repetative strain injury) is muscle or tendon inflamation caused by repetative mouse or keyboard actions, and agrevated by having a poor posture while using computers. I would strongly recomed reading up about it if you use computers for any length of time; keeping a good posture to start with will likly stop RSI from developing, but once you have it, it doesnt realy go away.
I find that RSI is particularly agrevated by short, fast mouse movements, particularly those combined with mouse clicks or drags (which are worse than clicks).
Having hotkeys to reduce the dependance on a mouse interface can help significantly; performing different actions with the mouse rather than repeating the same one in a short space of time is also useful.
Addressing your rant, though: MMO's do tend to have a problem with repetative gameplay; the problem is not, however that the game play is repetative, but that the mouse movements are repetative over short periods of time.
Example non-repetative game: Laser Squad Nemesis (play by email tactical combat; worth a look for a while, at least; main skill while playing ones turn: predicting ones enemy's moves and tactics).
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Zatch
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.11.04 06:46:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Zatch on 04/11/2006 06:48:44 Okay here are the facts, including the problems with wrecks, and a viable solution:
Facts: 1) Many structures and all NPCs drop wrecks upon destruction, so far as I can tell. 2) Wrecks may drop with absolutely nothing in them. I am used to seeing loot after blowing up structures, this is no longer the case. 3) Different sized wrecks are dropped for different-sized NPCs. All structures seem to drop the same sized wreck. 4) Wrecks do not pop after you remove the loot from them (if any.) 5) Wrecks appear to have infinite capacity. 6) Wrecks don't have a noticeable impact on visual performance until we zoom all the way in, when the polygons and textures are finally rendered (and there's much more to a wreck than a can, but they fade with distance regardless of your LOD settings it seems.)
Problems: 1) More cans (wrecks are fancy cans) means more time spent looting. When half of the cans are empty, I'm spending half of my looting time doing absolutely nothing worthwhile. 2) Wrecks cause more lag because they are not automatically destroyed after looting (though they are probably destroyed after a set amount of time, maybe an hour like the old cans.)
Solutions: 1) Do NOT drop a wreck if it contains nothing. Yes, this means you will have less to salvage, however most people engaged in combat will not be packing the salvaging modules anyways. Also this will help prevent an over-proliferation of rigs. Here is what should happen if and only-if a wreck spawns: * The wreck contains loot. * Looting the wreck automatically destroys it. * This means salvaging must be done before looting. This will NOT adversely affect salvaging operations, it serves only to alleviate the stress imposed on mission-runners and NPCers who want to just loot a can and have it disappear from the overview. Leaving the cans floating in space with some sort of tag or color change is also not a reasonable solution because when cans are a problem, they are a big problem (meaning they are literally a cloud standing between you and your destination; looting the cans clears out the problem.)
These are not so much suggestions as they are demands. These changes must be implemented or at least something similar in order to prevent frustrating the PVE/Mission crowd any further. Once again, the system is broken at the moment and is a BAD new feature. Adding a bad new feature means reducing the quality of the game. Fixing the issue changes this from a bad, performance-hindering and frustration-inducing issue into a nice graphical upgrade with the optional ability to gain more from a typical loot drop if the salvaging operation is performed before removing loot from the wreckage.
I hate to sound like an ******* but that's how it is, and this issue has not been getting the attention it deserves. If the system is implemented as it currently exists on SISI, the game will be WORSE than pre-Kali. Think about it. -----
Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.04 06:50:00 -
[59]
2006.11.04 04:45:32 Notify You successfully salvage from the Gallente Battleship Wreck. Unfortunately there was nothing to be salvaged.
I have been salvaging dozens of wrecks and so far this is the most common message I get.
With the requirements of the rigging blueprints the prices for rigs will be, quite frankly, insane.
Is the intended yield of items from wrecks intended? Are these just goign to be a way for those with deep pockets to buy fights? (more than they already do)
In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU. |
Shimarra
Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.04 07:03:00 -
[60]
With all due respect to the RSI suffers, you probably shouldn't be playing EvE. The game is built to be mouse-centric, and the actions required royally mess with most suffers of Carpal and other wrist and arm RSI. Now, I personally believe that making the game a bit easier with respect to hot-keys and keyboard interaction will make the game a bit more playable for everybody. Shim
-------------------------- "oooh, mercoxit..." --------------------------
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Zatch
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.11.04 07:17:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Zatch on 04/11/2006 07:17:48 With regards to repetitive-stress-injuries: there's no way to avoid them in any computer game or when writing an essay, for example. However, RSIs may be reduced by taking frequent breaks. If you're sitting there for 6 hours doing the same crap over and over, what do you honestly expect to happen? Sit in one place long enough, your blood starts to pool and you get internal bruising. Type for a long enough period of time with little or no downtime, your wrists are going to hurt. Drag hundreds of loot items without taking a break or flexing your wrist and fingers, you're going to hurt yourself. Everybody is prone to RSIs, and I hate to break it to you but this is one of those situations where you just have to deal with it. Make sure you're sitting properly, take a break at least once an hour (meaning get up, walk around, roll your wrists around, flex your fingers, roll your neck, stretch your arms, this helps with your back, legs, arms, neck, and hands,) and if you have a persistent pain (even a few hours after stopping your gaming completely) I suggest consulting a physician. -----
Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Takigama
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.04 07:31:00 -
[62]
not sure wether to use this thread or not.. but when you create a jet can and rename it, it looses all its tags (i.e. it goes from "cargo container [CORP]<ALLIANCE>(cargo container)" to "testname")
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.04 08:56:00 -
[63]
How *exactly* do you salvage materials from a wreck? Do you have to have a salvage mod fitted?
Because I said so...
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Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.11.04 10:20:00 -
[64]
Empty wrecks should have a different colour on the overview - nice and simple :)
Zarch AlDain
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.04 11:48:00 -
[65]
After testing wreck salvaging for a while, admittedly only maybe 20-25 wrecks(around a third of which were player t2 fitted battleship wrecks), I came back to station with a whopping five different salvaged components.
By looking at the at least 150(or as many as 250+) needed to construct a moderately useful rig, I am left quite simply flabbergasted. Is the low return rate of salvaging intended?
If so, then we can expect rig prices to be exorbinent, and not just for the short term. I would not be surprised to see 50 million the going price for a 5% grid rig(months after release!), with these return rates.
Is there something I am missing? The only way I could see rigs becoming accessible enough to actually be used by the rank and file of eve on ships they risk is if the yields were upped, or the component drops were added into mission bonus tables like t2 comps once were.
Otherwise, I just can't see how these are going to be accessible. It would just be a way for the haves to have more, as it were, in pvp and mission running. As who would put a 5m module on a frigate, much less one even more expensive.
In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU. |
Kaaii
Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.04 13:01:00 -
[66]
the results of my wreck salvage testing..
The module is called a "salvage module" its med slot. Think code breaker / anaylizer type. It has a cycle time of about 5-7 secs for me. You can fit (and use) multiple modules on the same wreck.
1) wrecks have to be "empty" of loot. they don't work on it if theres that civilian shield booster in there, so grab that phat loot first.
2) Wrecks can be tractor beamed.
3) once you pull it to within 5k, you can activate the module. If you find something it tells you, and automatically puts whatever it was in cargo hold. If you don't, it also tells you and either way the wreck dissappears once either of these happens
4) I got abot a 20% yield of stuff, from gurista rats in an 05 in forge. I then ques up and tried a mission. I found ONE item out of a lvl 3 that i had, and NO structures provided anything. Maybe they do, and I just didn't hit it, but I popped 11 structures and none of them dropped components.
5) Wrecks can now have zero loot, i mean the basic stuff. you can open a can, and have it have nothing, and then salvage it and get something, or nothing depending.
6) I next went to the drone lands, the new regions to try out there some. The avg was the same, about 1-4/6 drones would give me "one" item. I have yet to find multipules of anything, or greater than one.
7) I had bought a salvage rig bpo, and was going to make it to add to my chances. It takes "over a hundred" of 3 different types of salvage components. Given that in the 4 hours I messed with the salvage (hour travel time) I found..7 salvage components....
More on this later..
Kaaii
Trading 101 |
Zatch
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:22:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Zatch on 04/11/2006 14:26:20 The salvage components are seeded, so you can manufacture rigs easily on test. Also I believe the salvage % improving rig (salvage tackle or something) is the only built rig that is seeded, so you can at least test them and their effect on salvage material return rates.
I still maintain that only cans containing loot should be dropped, and salvaging should be performed prior to looting. It's not very difficult to add in one extra variable (a single bit, 1 or 0) that determines internally whether a salvage attempt has been made on a wreck, and if so you may no longer make more attempts. The only ways to pop the wrecks, then, would be shooting at them or removing the loot. At the moment the system is backwards and it makes less sense this way given that the primary function of wrecks will be exactly the same as cargo containers: normal loot. Salvaging is just an extra ability to squeeze a little more out of a wreck that was dropped (already containing loot) prior to removing the loot. That way you don't **** off the mission runners and NPCers who don't want to waste a slot on a salvage module and don't want to waste time + ammo on popping cans. Leaving cans lying around isn't an option for most people and for those who are indifferent, they naturally won't care if the mission runners are satisfied with a change.
Edit: I'm still using 'can' and 'wreck' interchangeably, the point is the same either way. -----
Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:40:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Zatch Edited by: Zatch on 04/11/2006 14:26:20 The salvage components are seeded, so you can manufacture rigs easily on test. Also I believe the salvage % improving rig (salvage tackle or something) is the only built rig that is seeded, so you can at least test them and their effect on salvage material return rates.
I still maintain that only cans containing loot should be dropped, and salvaging should be performed prior to looting. It's not very difficult to add in one extra variable (a single bit, 1 or 0) that determines internally whether a salvage attempt has been made on a wreck, and if so you may no longer make more attempts. The only ways to pop the wrecks, then, would be shooting at them or removing the loot. At the moment the system is backwards and it makes less sense this way given that the primary function of wrecks will be exactly the same as cargo containers: normal loot. Salvaging is just an extra ability to squeeze a little more out of a wreck that was dropped (already containing loot) prior to removing the loot. That way you don't **** off the mission runners and NPCers who don't want to waste a slot on a salvage module and don't want to waste time + ammo on popping cans. Leaving cans lying around isn't an option for most people and for those who are indifferent, they naturally won't care if the mission runners are satisfied with a change.
Edit: I'm still using 'can' and 'wreck' interchangeably, the point is the same either way.
Think of it this way; You shoot a ship. The first thing is to take the stuff that's intact and works, like modules. You then decide to spend some extra time on it because you want to take some of the intact or damaged but useable components, that's the salvaging and that's why you get stuff like Damaged Artificial Neural Network out of it.
The salvaging rate is still being tuned afaik, not sure if it was changed in yesterdays update.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Talidorn
Pandoras Mining Covanant
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:33:00 -
[69]
Is this a bad video driver for my laptop or is it wrong dx versioning issue or...
Thanks,
Talidorn
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Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.04 22:07:00 -
[70]
I haven't been able to test salvaging yet - FD- is the ONLY place where the salvage module is found and its on the other side of the galaxy.
Is there any way to identify which wrecks have been looted and which have not?
Imagine looting after a battle or a mission. You have 30-50 wrecks to check which do not blow up when you loot them. How do i know which wrecks I have looted and which I have not? How do i know when I have looted them all?
The only solution I can think of right now is shooting them after looting. Which is complete a waste of ammo and a workaround for a poorly implemented game mechanic. We definately need to have the old 'destruct-on-loot' mechanism when looting, and an auto destruct-on-salvage as well to keep space tidy and less confusing.
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SUPER J0SH
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Posted - 2006.11.04 22:25:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Talidorn Is this a bad video driver for my laptop or is it wrong dx versioning issue or...
Thanks,
Talidorn
using damaged cloaking devices is a bad idea m'kay!
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Hon Kovell
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.05 11:55:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Monica Foulkes
Originally by: zoltar I self destructed 2 freighters on test server, didnt drop any wreck.
I wonder if that was due to the bug described in point 4 by the OP or if freighters just behave as they always have done? Any chance you can eject from the frighter and blow it up with another ship instead?
I had someone blow up my freighter a couple of times and there was no wreck either time. Even if they don't drop cargo, there should be a wreck to use the salvage module on. |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 15:53:00 -
[73]
In my testing the salvage chance is much better form NPCs than from PC wrecks.
Surely this is a bug? ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
pardux
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.05 16:32:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Mephysto Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.
what about fps lag ._. will this cause you to see nothing for 1-2 min longer now when you warp into a battlefield =/ ?
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Zatch
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.11.06 00:27:00 -
[75]
I still maintain that wrecks should pop when they are looted, and they shouldn't drop empty. It's the same situation with a tractor beam: either you fit one and possibly gimp your setup for easier looting, or you don't fit one and either slowboat or have an alt come in with tractor beams. It should work the same way with salvage modules: if you loot the cans, you knowingly sacrifice the ability to salvage from that wreck. If you bring a salvage module, you can try salvaging first. Industrial ships have mids so I don't see this being a problem at all. -----
Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Voin
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Posted - 2006.11.06 12:36:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Zatch ..... Industrial ships have mids so I don't see this being a problem at all.
Mostly agree with you, and as some other ppl's said earlier COLORING wreck's 'll help with looting it's...
But... Worlds Collide lvl 4 mission not accept any industrial ship in the area... :-) |
Chris2746
Gallente Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.06 13:32:00 -
[77]
Couple things could be done to make the whole wreck salvaging system work better.
First of all, it is my opinion that ships should still drop the cargo containers like they did before if they have general loot. and the tractor beams should be able to tractor them too (as it is the tractor beams cannot tractor cargo containers that are dropped from some mission npc's/players etc) The primary reason for this is that it makes picking up the loot durring missions alot easier without having to fly to every single wreck to see if it has something or not especially in missions where most ships dont drop anything, it becomes a real hassle. additionally, it would probably be useful if not every ship created a wreck, it only creates a wreck if there was something lootable either through salvage or normal loot.
Also, rather than have the salvage system a med slot, maybe make it go in the rig as a module because many ships especially shield tanking ships and such have layouts that cant really afford to lose a module slot for something as neccesary as that, and it would be nice to not have to go snag my indy for EVERY npc ship thats been killed.
As with any new implementation of this scale its bound to have bugs and issues at first i know, but what i mentioned are things that really should be looked into prior to the live release of kali. In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made alot of people very angry and been widely reguarded as a bad move. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.11.06 14:48:00 -
[78]
That would cause considerable problems to begin with- you'd need to salvage wrecks to build the rig needed to salvage the wrecks :)
I like the idea of a rig with a salvaging bonus, though- perhaps one that increases the salvage yield. Is there already one that does this? ---------- Racer in the ISGC Frigate League |
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.06 21:43:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Zatch I still maintain that wrecks should pop when they are looted, and they shouldn't drop empty. It's the same situation with a tractor beam: either you fit one and possibly gimp your setup for easier looting, or you don't fit one and either slowboat or have an alt come in with tractor beams. It should work the same way with salvage modules: if you loot the cans, you knowingly sacrifice the ability to salvage from that wreck. If you bring a salvage module, you can try salvaging first. Industrial ships have mids so I don't see this being a problem at all.
Your idea gimps all salvage lovers chance to salvage more. Why not simply have a small flag or icon appearing on the wrecks to indicate itÆs empty. And if you want to, use drones to blow it up. No ammo lost, just a little time consuming.
Questions: 1. When you activate the salvage module on a wreck, do you have to wait until it has finished its cycle to give you the item? And how long is the cycle?
2. Does different ships, structures and factions. Give different wrecks?
3. Can you place items inside wrecks or only take items out?
4. The wrecks are very large. CanÆt they cause problems in battlefields when ships get tangled up inside them? Maybe make them smaller or able for ships to fly through them.
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Satal Sonshi
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.06 22:13:00 -
[80]
In another thread earlier today, this was suggested, which I find particularly simple and valuable. I feel that if this was implemented, it would clear up all confusion over loot collection, so that we could instead focus on salvaging (which is the whole point of wrecks, right?):
1. A wreck containing cargo (loot), has a filled in Triangle icon. 2. A wreck containing no cargo (no loot), has an empty Triangle icon.
I understand that this goes against the concept that you have to LOOK first to know if there's cargo, but this is a game, and ease/value are important. Explain it as a default mass/density scanner that can discover if there's stuff in cargo, but it can't discern what it is. But please don't make looting an overly infuriating task. Salvaging, the new stuff, is what should take new effort.
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Kanerix Wolfe
Caldari Cursed Spawn
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Posted - 2006.11.07 15:05:00 -
[81]
1. As it stands, tractor beams no longer works on standard cans. 2. When popping drones, the wrecks end up having more mass and are much larger than the actual drone was. 3. Using a tractor beam on a wreck looks almost disconcerting, as there is a lot of misc crap floating there and it all moves together with the tractor beam. 4. Player ship wrecks show as the race and class of ship that was wrecked. Mission ship and 'rats' do not, and just display as 'Wreck'. 5. Has anybody been able to successfully salvage a rig from a wreck?
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Nachtjaeger
Minmatar Silent Services Research
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:11:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Kanerix Wolfe
5. Has anybody been able to successfully salvage a rig from a wreck?
Rigs aren't salvaged from wrecks, components for rigs are. Regardless of the size of ship, ie frig, cruiser, bs, all wrecks only yield 1 item on a successful salvage attempt.
There is a salvage rig, the t1 version gives 10% extra chance of successfully salvaging, this doesn't mean you actually get anything tho. From what i experienced salvaging NPC wrecks only a few yielded nothing at all. Salvage module has a 10 second cycle time and you can sit there until it successfully salvages, just like codebreakers and analysers. What i didn't check was if fitting more than one salvage rig is possible and if it is, if they get a stacking penalty. As it stands atm, you only get a 25% chance with salvage at level 5 and no rig.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:14:00 -
[83]
word from somone in another thread is that you can stack them, and using 4 at a time against a single wreck can mean loot every time.
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triny
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:05:00 -
[84]
Well, new patch tried the salvaging again. used 2 salvage mods, 3 rigs for enhancing efficiency of salvaging. result was that 50% off the time i got 1 or 2 mods. The amounts off the items needed to build a rig has been decreased so it might actuall work now.
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LaCoHa
Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.11.08 22:37:00 -
[85]
Edited by: LaCoHa on 08/11/2006 22:38:50 may have already been mentioned.. but seeing as killing the Caldari Navy/Imperial Navy/whatever is easy as hell to kill (I am a criminal you see.. so they like to shoot at me, but dont get sentry support, nor do they shoot at my drones -silly, i know) in Revelations.. has anyone checked those wrecks? You can basically have an endless supply of wrecks by docking/undocking and then slaughtering all the new arrivals.
anyone looted them? do they give you good/better stuff?
"I just slaughtered 28 people in that game of Battlefield 2 and never died. Man my e-p33n feels huge."
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Ratzap
Gallente Old Farts
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:40:00 -
[86]
Multiple salvage mods seem to give you multiple tries per wreck so long as they get activated quickly enough. Once 1 succeeds though, it looks like that poofs the wreck (which is logical enough).
We'll need some sort of salvage cruiser setup. I'm thinking Blackbird or abuse a recon at the moment (needs med slots, tractors and nanos/expanders).
Ratzap
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Hesed
Hamartia.
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Posted - 2006.11.09 07:33:00 -
[87]
I can't seem to open a wreck unless I target lock it first. I scribbled a BgRpt on it, but now I'm not sure if should have bothered.
Bug or Feature?
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Elfman
AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.09 10:00:00 -
[88]
Sounds like salvage drones would be usefull here.
Was something mentioned way back in 2003 or so....... Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
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Tobber Harley
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Posted - 2006.11.09 21:25:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Mephysto Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.
I tested salvaging wrecks yesterday, and it seems like it's working ok. I just have one BIG complaint! You can't salvage a wreck when there is still loot in the can, which makes it pretty cumbersome since you have to wait for the wreck to get within 1500m to be able to open and empty it first.
Why doesn't the salvage module just transfer all loot in the wreck to your cargo when doing the salvage? And if you don't have enough cargo space for the loot in the wreck it should just complain about it and stop the salvage module...
Regards, Tobber Harley...
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Jinx Barker
Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.09 21:33:00 -
[90]
Just tested some things on SiSi.
Folllwoing ratio on T1 Rigs now: 22/9 or 10/22 items needed. Which means that with the current 1 item of slavage per/Wreck thing. We only need to kill about 56-60 ships as opposed to 250-30 before.
I think its good news.
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.11.10 10:21:00 -
[91]
It would be nice if Rigs could be built either from salvage (as now) OR from normal minerals and components, giving one a choice when using the blueprints.
It stands to reason that the salvage materials were things one can build with minerals and components, as they come from ships which can be built. Therefor people building rigs should be able to make them, at increased expense, from new components instead of broken ones.
Alternativly, having blueprints for the salvage components, so that they can be manufactured separatly, for people who want to use new components instead of rubbish.
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:30:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Mephysto Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.
#4 isnt a bug, Self destructing a ship always resolved in all modules being destroyed too, thats the whole point of self destructing anyways.. but who am I telling this!
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Chris2746
Gallente Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.11 21:17:00 -
[93]
It would be likely that the rig components would be seeded at least in small numbers when kali goes live so the issue of having to have a rig to salvage to build a rig to salvage stuff to make rigs probably wouldnt be an issue.
Also, as of the last time i was able to get on the test server (couple days now that the server's been locked) salvagers, or salvager BPOs were not seeded in lonetrek, or anywhere in that vicinity. In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made alot of people very angry and been widely reguarded as a bad move. |
voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.12 13:24:00 -
[94]
Edited by: voidvim on 12/11/2006 13:35:43
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord It would be nice if Rigs could be built either from salvage (as now) OR from normal minerals and components, giving one a choice when using the blueprints.
It stands to reason that the salvage materials were things one can build with minerals and components, as they come from ships which can be built. Therefor people building rigs should be able to make them, at increased expense, from new components instead of broken ones.
Alternativly, having blueprints for the salvage components, so that they can be manufactured separatly, for people who want to use new components instead of rubbish.
True , I think when we built a item in a factory the factory most built all the salvage components (that riggs use) when it builts the item. Making sub-components first, then puting them together to make a finished item. Thus their is no reason for use not to able to make the salvage components.
But ccp wants rigging to be done via salvaging to make a new mini profession. It's not logical of course, but that's ccp for you.
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Doc Extropy
Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.15 08:24:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:48 Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:12 I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.
If you use an alt for loot retrieval who is also your logistics guy it would be more than annoying having each mission take the double time because you have to try to salvage each wreck.
Renaming is the way to go, but the system says "can't rename that kind of object". VERY inconveniant, my dears, very inconveniant.
I hope this is not meant as an npc hunting / mission running nerf.
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Admiral Pieg
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.15 19:10:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Doc Extropy Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:48 Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:12 I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.
If you use an alt for loot retrieval who is also your logistics guy it would be more than annoying having each mission take the double time because you have to try to salvage each wreck.
Renaming is the way to go, but the system says "can't rename that kind of object". VERY inconveniant, my dears, very inconveniant.
I hope this is not meant as an npc hunting / mission running nerf.
im not sure what it would nerf, besides our sanity ______________
Pod from above. |
Xaeon
Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 19:13:00 -
[97]
The bpo for the tool is up - though the description says it's just a scanner, and I've yet to test this further.
I'm currently trying to scan wrecks but they just keep telling me that there is nothing worth salvaging.
Is this supposed to be the case at the moment? Anyone else tried this?
Chapter V |
Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.15 20:51:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Doc Extropy I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.
This is absolutely vital. The inability to determine which wrecks have been checked for cargo will be crippling to mission runners. Either they'll have to spend all their time salvaging everything, or all their time trying to destroy everything.
A different symbol for a full wreck vs empty wreck or perhaps have wrecks disappear 30 seconds after being emptied. That way if you are into salvage you can still empty and start to salvage it, but if you're not you won't be bothered by it. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
Xaeon
Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 21:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Doc Extropy I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.
This is absolutely vital. The inability to determine which wrecks have been checked for cargo will be crippling to mission runners. Either they'll have to spend all their time salvaging everything, or all their time trying to destroy everything.
A different symbol for a full wreck vs empty wreck or perhaps have wrecks disappear 30 seconds after being emptied. That way if you are into salvage you can still empty and start to salvage it, but if you're not you won't be bothered by it.
Something as simple as a different coulour would do it tbh.
Chapter V |
Coniglietta Magica
Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.15 22:30:00 -
[100]
Except for those of us that are colour deficient...
I have a crazy hard time seeing the red ship icons most of the time...
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Joran Ven
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Posted - 2006.11.16 02:15:00 -
[101]
Ok the scanner is indeed the item used to get the goodies, at the base standerds granted on test (salvage 3) I was getting items about a third of the time, the scanner itself also has a failure rate though it will keep trying untill it succeeds.
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Korvin Eeex
Gallente Two Brothers Mining Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.16 11:22:00 -
[102]
I did some testing on wrecks and idea behind wrecks is not bad but implementation could be better.
Good: - You can tractor wrecks same as loot cans. - Even with Salvaging skills on lvl 1, chance to salvage wreck is pretty good.
Things that need to be improved: - Looted wrecks must be marked (different color, different icon). As it is now you dont have a clue if wreck is already looted or not and that is very annoying. - There should be some progres bar for Salvager (same as with ECM, dampeners). As it is now you dont know what is going on - you only see salvager activated and that is all. Many times you will get message that Salvager missed to pick up material from wreck and it will go to next cycle - so progress bar should be there to show what is going on. - It should be possible to salvage wreck even if loot is in wreck. If you didnt pick up loot and you salvaged wreck loot is lost together with wreck. As it is now you need to take loot from every single wreck and your cargo hold will be full in no time, so you have to jettison loot very often. But this is probably intention of CCP to introduce salvaging profession and make people working as team.
Number of Salvaged materials (tested on NPCs only): Frigate size ship: 1 Destroyer size ship: 1 Cruiser size ship: 1 Battlecruiser size ship: 1 Battleship size ship: 1 and very rare 2
Rigs BPOs are tweaked and quantity of salvaged materials for producing rigs are much lower now. But you will need somewhere between 50 - few hundreds of different salvaged material (usually 3 different materials for each rig). So if you get from 2 x BS and 2 x frigate spawn 4pcs of salvaged materials for one rig someone has to kill and salvage anywhere from 10 - 100 spawns to be able to make one rig and that is a lot. I did not try to hunt NPCs in 0.5 but I presume there will also be possible to get some materials (these will probably be cheaper because of bigger number of people ratting in 0.5 or safe sec in general).
Salvaging is only as CCP stated 'Mini Profession'. I cannot see people that are ratting (especially in 0.0) to be salvagers at same time. It is time consuming job and it will make ratting to take even more time, so I presume some people will fit special ships and be 'salvagers' going after ratter and salvaging wreck after wreck.
I tried multiple Salvagers at one ship but it seems that only one is enough.
I didnt try to salvage wreck from other player. I presume that taking loot from other people wreck will mark you red for 15 mins but not sure what will happen if loot is not there and someone salvage only materials from wreck. It will probably make you red, same as with loot but it has to be confirmed. If that is not a case marking wreck without loot by different color/icon makes even more sense.
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Metacannibal
Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.16 19:42:00 -
[103]
salvage ratios seem VERY VERY low on player ships. i have just salvaged five! moros class dreadnaught wrecks, and in return i got four salvage components. that sounds VERY VERY VERY low. if thats really the ratio of these drops, i can not see anyone using rigs realistically due to exorbitant rarity. i did assume that rigs were kind of a treat for pvpers, something that would drop from npc's but mostly from player ships. now if you consider previous reported ratios on npcs, how do you expect these items to get use outside of "multi billion isk empire mission runner ravens" if they are so rare, even on player capital ships.
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Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:17:00 -
[104]
the only test I had the time to do after the last patch: 12 drone wrecks - 0 salvare 2 building - 0 salvage
average 3-4 cycles each try.
A good quantity of time for 0 success, and losing a middle slot during a complex run.
The best chance for salvaging plaing solo? A barge in a 0.5 system. Mine and launch the drones. While you mine a full jetcan you will be attacked multiple times by rats. Equip the industrial you use to recover the jetcan with tractor beam and a salvager and voila, you can recover minerals, loot and salvage. I don't think that was the idea behind the salvagin.
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.11.17 20:46:00 -
[105]
How much space do salvaged items take up?
Just wondering am I going to need a much larger cargo hold to loot now?
Currently I use a 1000m3 cruiser to look in lvl 4 mission(more tractor beams than a hauler)
Now I'm guessing I will get the same amount of loot with Kali but now I'll be looting for rig equipment. How much more space can I expect to be taken up for this stuff?
Thanks
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Devick Baalreth
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Posted - 2006.11.18 00:46:00 -
[106]
The issue I run into is that its too time consuming with failures. I don't mind failures but 7 in a row makes me wanna self destroy my ship and scrap the whole thing. I wouldn't mind spending 30 seconds per wreck if it would stop failing so much. 7 failures means 70s. Still have no idea what the salvaging goes for you, I get cargo space taken up with items that sound like they are unrecoverable but say they can be. Other then that I don't know what to do with them, Repairshop? Refinement?
Its a unique idea, and having to work for components is a good idea to me. But after a while its just not worth the mid slot. Especially when you're ratting a lot.
When I go back on tonight, I will be trying salvage again.
Any information on the step after the salvaging is done would be nice.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.18 08:52:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/11/2006 08:54:26 You need tto buy the BPO for the rigging and build them with the salvaged items. The problem for me is the combo: 30 second for attempt in the 5 km range of the salvager, average of about 3 attempt for 1 result (90 seconds average for wreck, about 1/4 of the wrecks with salvage), move to next wrek to loot then salvage. To do it in a half decent time you have 2 option a) fast frigate with salvager and good cargo space(a Probe?); b) Cargo cruiser (exequror) or industrial with tractors beams and salvagers.
Option a is the one for new players, but I dubt new players will spend the skill point for learnining the salvaging skill; Option B is a totally non combat ship - worth it only in specific situations.
So basically new players, the ones that will need more the income, will not be picking wrecks, PvPers will be picking wreks only in systems they control and where they have a salvage ship; mission runners will be picking wrecks only after completing the mission it they are still there and probably will lose not only most of the wreck but most of the loot too to the expiration time of cans as the higher number of wreck and the impossibility to identify the ones looted make recovering them during the mission a totally waste of time.
End result: salvaged items will be a rare commodity.
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Dr Smog
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Posted - 2006.11.18 22:14:00 -
[108]
Has the obvious exploit been blocked? i.e. repeatedly popping your own alt in a noobship for free salvage? I'm hoping noob ship give no salvage - otherwise the only cost-efficient source of salvage items is going to be farming salvage from noob alts in a war-decced corp.
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DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.18 23:25:00 -
[109]
So do mission , bookmarks cans , dock, complete mission , hop into hauler with tractor and salvager, warp to bookmark ... hey bookmarks dont work !!!! Goodbye loot
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Ikarushka
A.O.U. Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.19 02:44:00 -
[110]
I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way ----------------------------------------- Your ad could be here :) |
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.19 08:28:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Ikarushka I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way
I think and hope it is supposed to be that way, so you don't have to check 40 items repeatedly to get the right can. There is the added problem that can can't be tractored, so you need to get to hit with your soo slow BS. In a good number of missions while still under fire. Bye Bye to the hit and snatch missions. You must always grind all the enemyes.
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Hohenheim OfLight
Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.11.19 13:04:00 -
[112]
Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now? ----------------------------------------------
Gone but not forgotten
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Ikarushka
A.O.U. Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.19 19:12:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?
There is loot inside the wreck; once you take it out you can try to salvge the wreck. So it works exactly like cans did with loot, it just looks differently
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DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.19 20:27:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Ikarushka I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way
Indeed, and tractor beams do NOT work on them !!!
Fly safe
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Clone runner
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Posted - 2006.11.20 01:27:00 -
[115]
i think wrecks should get a hp boost, carrier wreck only taking 400dmg lol if you pop an enemy carrier there just going to pop the wreck in an interceptor or sniper and laugh before you salvage it, (assuming they give anything worthwhile from salvage anyway, i would like to think they do considering the ships cost)
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.11.20 14:54:00 -
[116]
ok to answer my own question if someone else is wondering, So far I have seen tha salavaged items take up 1 m3.
Now some have said the scanning results are pretty good while other say it fails to often.
I would have to agree that it fails to often. On test sever we are given the skill trained to lvl 3. Now I would think the # of times it is currently failing might happen at lvl 1 or lvl 2. I think it fails to often for lvl 3.
NOw I didn't look at the skill very closly but can we get perfect scanning at lvl 5? if not that definally need to make it better. Lvl 5 should be success ever time. any mods that improve scanning should decress the time taken.
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Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:19:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Ikarushka
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?
There is loot inside the wreck; once you take it out you can try to salvge the wreck. So it works exactly like cans did with loot, it just looks differently
So in noob terms...when a ship is destroyed, a random (ha-ha) amount of modules/items will be destroyed and the rest left in the wreck. You recover the wreck, presuming you want to spend the time waiting for the scanner and hoping it won't fail. Then you try and salvage something from the wreck, and you have a chance to lose items during that as well?
Seems like CCP's attempt to at least slow down inflation. Suddenly you aren't getting a ton of crap loot from drops, which means that simultaneously gaining ISK through bounties and minerals through recycle is done, which means less minerals in circulation, which means the price goes up and people actually have to start thinking about their purchases, 100 million thrown here or there is no longer a simple thing like it is for a lot of people. (Unfortunately, I am not one of those!) This will also drive up the price of the middle of the road modules-the lower end will stay pretty much the same for a good bit of time, there are too many of them in the game. But the middle of road, rare-but-not-uber-rare modules will likely see a slight increase in prices.
Or am I just reading too much into it?
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Kaden Seer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:29:00 -
[118]
Agreed, transition needs more work <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> More drone bay for Myrmidon!!! |
RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.21 07:49:00 -
[119]
What do you guys think about the models for the capital ship wrecks? I'm not sure if i have some kind of graphical bug or not but there seem to be holes cut out of the model making it look quite bad.
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ShadeLiner
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Posted - 2006.11.21 08:18:00 -
[120]
Last time I was able to enter Sisi the salvage module wasn't jet available. To address some of the above problem, a combo tractor beam/salvage module can be a solution, or to be more clear, giving to salvage module the ability to tractor the wreck. As thing stand, a dedicate salvager in a slow ship need to use 2 modules: 1 high for the tractor beam, and another for the salvage module (a middle i think). That will be a big nerfing for the PvE players Sad, the ones that have the greatest chance to have big numbers of wrecks.
anoter option for corporate so after the large mission can come the hauler and the scavangers to clear the space..
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 20:55:00 -
[121]
Originally by: ShadeLiner
anoter option for corporate so after the large mission can come the hauler and the scavangers to clear the space..
Exactly why that should be good? I dubt the average player like to be the janitor for the big guns of a corporation. I could do that occasionally, but it seem it will be a profession. Some rechent (today) test has gotten: 31 wrecks tried from the mission "In the midst of deadspace", ship where Amar navy armaggeddon, Delta frigate II caldari and Amarr, Caldari Navy Raven, so no little newbie ships. Salvaged item 0 (as in none, nada, ecc.). A player in help chat has sayd that if you install more than one salvager and use them all on the same wreck you always get salvage. If this is right and a good chance of salvage is so skill and module intensive, the one doing the salvage will be pratically struck in his role. In the end the only ones doing it will be some mission runner with a prepared recovery ship after completing a mission near his home base and the corporations with some "mule" player doing the dirty work.
Even if EVE is Massive Multy Player it isn't always played in Massive Multiplayer Organizations. For a 8 person corporation with player dispersed in all the timezones it will be a Massive Logistic Problem.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:24:00 -
[122]
I'll be spending time in salvaging, though widely considered dubious, as I did with COSMOS. (Another widely considered dubious activity.) I don't care for all the hooplah about profitability and all that jazz. It's part of the game, it produces something, and I'm going to try it out and try it out to the fullest extent.
Currently I'm playing around on SISI low sec ratting in a scorp with 4 salvagers installed. Fair bit of success. Let me say that whoever realized the COSMOS spawns would be farmed is a clever chap. Getting mostly scrap metal from salvaging those wrecks was rather fitting reward for such little work.
After working for a bit I do see that there is a problem with, as someone pointed out, the number of actions required to salvage. One thing I would agree with is an icon change, or color change, from a "looted" wreck and a non-looted wreck. It would speed interested parties along on their way.
I would also sign off on the salvager being an auto-looter module. It makes far more sense to have the module auto-empty any cans into my cargo hold then to have to open each wreck, loot or no loot, and then empty and salvage scan. Another, secondary suggestion, would be to have a looted wreck not spawn a container window. This would also mean that any wreck that has the loot taken out the window would automatically close.
That would clear up a few things easy and quick in some regards. If the window opens there is loot, if it doesn't there isn't. Right now a player's screen can get a bunch of windows that you have to either close or keep letting stack up.
I also wish there was a daily bug list thread. Found a few things with today's build, non-salvage, related but rather hard to find a place to see if it has been reported already.
PS: To the people that can not find a salvager on the market. It takes no time to buy the bpo, at npc price, purchase the minerals at the seeded stations and to have your very own salvager I. CCP can't do everything for you.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:29:00 -
[123]
IÆve been interested in the salvaging mini-profession since I first heard about it, have been following the reports on it and have some comments/questions. I like the concept of salvaging and wrecks, but from what IÆve gathered so far the implementation seems to be at such a rudimentary stage as to be of little real value as a mini-profession or enhancement to the Eve experience.
+Upon ship destruction, a wreck is spawned with a 100% drop rate, except for mission specific objectives, which still drop in loot cans. Loot is contained within the wreck, using variable drop rates.
Q: Why is the wreck drop rate 100%? Is this merely just to ensure there are ample rig components at the start? A variable drop rate for wrecks would be far more immersive, ships used to be vaporized in the explosion from time to time. Q: Has it been added yet/will there be a quick and easy way to determine if a wreck contains loot from the overview/in space icons?
+Tractor beams now tow wrecks, and are unable to tow loot cans/jetcans.
Q: Why? That used to be their primary role, is it impossible to allow activation on two types of items?
+Wrecks behave like loot cans, vanishing after one to two hours.
Q: Is this simply for an easier introduction of this new feature, with plans for improvements?
+Optimally a dedicated ship/setup should be used for salvaging.
A mature state of a salvaging mini-profession/wrecks to me would look like: +Variable drop rate on wrecks, really fancy would be drop rate variables: NPC<PC, T1<T2<Faction, Frig<BS<Cap, SigRad to SigRes on final blow Rad<Res=higher chance of destruction, Damage on final blow to remaining HP, active/passive damage controls/reps, and resists. Like I said, fancy stuff. Some of those variables could also be used to help determine the quality/type of rig components spawned. +Variable lifespan on wrecks. ItÆs fine to have NPC frigs/cruisers vanish in an hour or two, but the larger the wreck, or the higher the quality, the longer it should live. All the way up to capital ship wrecks being permanently in space until salvaged. This would promote a true mini-profession, where one could search out or stumble upon unsalvaged player created wrecks, rather than just being the guy with the broom, cleaning up after your group or self.
Currently salvaging looks to be little more than an extra step to the looting of personal kills, while confounding the basic item looting in the process. There is no incentive to for example go to low sec and search for juicy unsalvaged wrecks, of which there will probably be plenty, because the wreck will be gone within hours of its creation (and those who created it will probably still be around).
What have I missed/gotten completely wrong, and is this only the first step in the implementation of salvaging/wrecks or is there nothing planned to enhance what could be a very cool and immersive new feature?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:24:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Hockston Axe Q: Why is the wreck drop rate 100%? Is this merely just to ensure there are ample rig components at the start? A variable drop rate for wrecks would be far more immersive, ships used to be vaporized in the explosion from time to time.
Can't answer for the dev's myself but I'd say it was to provide ample wrecks for the many attempts. From the experience I'm having with it... I'd say that it is determined at the time of the wreck if something is contained within. The salvaging just goes through to see if you find or lose it.
Inferred guessing on my part. The rig blueprints require enough of these materials that it is going to be work to accomplish any rig. Maybe not as much as some fear but ... well I'm just glad there is such a wreck ratio.
--Additionally--
Also, during my last space flight we watched another ship, in our caravan, get struck by meteorites. It was utterly vaporized which investigators reported as being the first such an accident had ever been record in the preceding centuries of space flight.
This is of course recorded history over the past several centuries. What accidents may have happened in space flight prior to then, or >gasp< if they even had space flight!, we can only guess.
Realism 4tl.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.22 13:19:00 -
[125]
With todays version i can tractor both wrecks and cans. It appears no more salvagable items come from wrecks, but that might be related to the missions i did : Illegal Activity, since i guess these faction standing killing missions could very well give no salvageable items.
As to the significantly increased time looting now takes, this is bad. Stop ship, tractor wreck to ship, grab loot, switch off tractor, switch on salvager, get next can with tractor etc. The salvager takes up to 5 tries to determine if there is something to salvage, so up to 50 seconds . Making salvaging chance based is ridiculous Please make it same as looting. All this delays looting significantly and with it the fun of doing missions.
We need a tractor salvager hi-slot device, which tractors the wreck, grabs the loot into the cargo hold, salvages any salvagable parts in ONE go and then pops the wreck. Could the tractor beam tech2 be like that
And please display different icons for new and looted wrecks, for example remove the line above the traingle when the wreck has no loot.
Fly safe.
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Mr Goods
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Posted - 2006.11.22 13:22:00 -
[126]
Its a pain to clear my overview and i spare too much time for check all wreck.
please make it: no loot = no wreck after loot = wreck desappear
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:48:00 -
[127]
Originally by: DukeJoost1 We need a tractor salvager hi-slot device, which tractors the wreck, grabs the loot into the cargo hold, salvages any salvagable parts in ONE go and then pops the wreck. Could the tractor beam tech2 be like that
I think this is what is being avoided. If this came to pass salvaging would not be a mini-profession but just another thing that everyone does and not for the sake of salvaging. Just for the sake of making looting easier.
TBH I think the ideal situation would me to have the salvager go to work regardless of if the loot has been removed or not. The salvager would not move the loot into your hold at all. Just it would do what it does and then pop the wreck.
The option to loot or not loot pre salvaging can have a popup warning, with a disable switch, and be completely upto the Player.
Originally by: DukeJoost1 And please display different icons for new and looted wrecks, for example remove the line above the traingle when the wreck has no loot.
Now this I agree with however it may take alot of beers to get the dev's to consider this at this point. I think it's more a case of "pain in the butt" to change aspect as this close to release date. >shrugs<
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:09:00 -
[128]
please,
1) make the client autoclose the loot window of the wrecks, once you have removed all loot from them - since salvaging appears to keep failing until the window is closed.
2) make it possible to distinguish, both on the overview and the space view, between looted and unlooted wrecks.
or 3) put the loot in the old containers we were used to, until you find solutions to the 2 above.
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ripstop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:09:00 -
[129]
All of us have been looting cans since time began, it was easy, shoot the ship, ship blows up, open the can and take the loot.
Salvaging is now a new skill to aquire with more gameplay involved. Ignoring the rigs aspect for now, it should be straightforward for most people to accomplish. Shoot the ship, ship blows up and leaves fancy ship graphic shell. Now you have a choice, Loot and leave or Loot, salvage and leave. Personally I like the latter as it allows harvesting of components needed for rigs and is an extra roleplay ability in game (wonders at whole new chat vocabulary in local now "yeah I was in the outer belts and managed to get this deep fat planck bubble stabliser circuit"...but I digress)
What happens if you loot and leave...easy..ship still has salvageable parts and could be salvaged by someone else. But how do you spot a salvageable ship or how do you know if your dead prey has components in it? Some have said colour code, some have said flag symbol. This needs to be worked on but any of these could do even no indication is an option. You would just have to try and salvage it to see if it gives up anything. In gang situations this gets a bit hairy as it takes an extra few seoonds to do this so components could get left behind. Scavenging wrecks is a whole new profession if the ship carcass remains persistant for a few hours. Imagine the scavengers following gangs and cleaning up their mess and salvaging ships. However if you want to take the components yourself go ahead.
I would advocate a deacy rate based on the presence of components in the carcass. If there are components then the decay is slower as residual electrical activity maintains some hull integrity and so the ship carcass stays around for the same amount of time as a can..lets say 2hrs. After that the components are gone and the ship carcass disappears. If the components are removed then the decay is much quicker as there is no electrical activity and no hull integrity...So at this stage the carcass could disintegrate instantly or last for a few minutes.
This behaviour is very similar to jetcans and means there is no real clutter after a finite period of time...until the next ship gets blown up.
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Feyd Darkholme
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:03:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Hockston Axe
+Tractor beams now tow wrecks, and are unable to tow loot cans/jetcans.
Q: Why? That used to be their primary role, is it impossible to allow activation on two types of items?
Oh yuck, Tractor Beams don't tow loot cans at all? That would kind of defeat the purpose of Tractor Beams for everyone that's not a Salvager... I really don't want looting to go back to being even more tedious than it was before, what an unecessarily complicated time-sink. ---------------
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:36:00 -
[131]
Yesterday (21) the loot cans where targectable by tractor beam. So now it work both on can and wrecks. The problem is that on about 40 wrecks of high end NPC shiip in a mission I found 0 salvagable parts. Onestly I feel the skill needed for salvaging are too high. Even if it is a mini profession I think it should be accessible without too much hardships by a new player. Mechanic 5 and survey 5 are a high skill total for a "young" player. Whit the same skill point he can pilote an assault frigate.
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Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.23 03:00:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Hockston Axe Q: Why is the wreck drop rate 100%? Is this merely just to ensure there are ample rig components at the start? A variable drop rate for wrecks would be far more immersive, ships used to be vaporized in the explosion from time to time.
Can't answer for the dev's myself but I'd say it was to provide ample wrecks for the many attempts. From the experience I'm having with it... I'd say that it is determined at the time of the wreck if something is contained within. The salvaging just goes through to see if you find or lose it.
Inferred guessing on my part. The rig blueprints require enough of these materials that it is going to be work to accomplish any rig. Maybe not as much as some fear but ... well I'm just glad there is such a wreck ratio.
--Additionally--
Also, during my last space flight we watched another ship, in our caravan, get struck by meteorites. It was utterly vaporized which investigators reported as being the first such an accident had ever been record in the preceding centuries of space flight.
This is of course recorded history over the past several centuries. What accidents may have happened in space flight prior to then, or >gasp< if they even had space flight!, we can only guess.
Realism 4tl.
I was just referring to ships that dropped no cans.
But randomly roaming natural disasters would be interesting, especially if you could chase down the meteoroids and mine them in a fast enough ship. (Meteorites on the other hand don't generally move very quickly, or much.)
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Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.23 03:44:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Matrix Aran on 23/11/2006 03:44:16 I think the idea about mission NPC is that they have a fairly low rate of salvage, just as in missions the NPCs have relativly lower drop rates on everything, compared to belt NPCs. Anyone able to confirm this? ----
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.23 06:16:00 -
[134]
Anyone else notice the change from mid slot to high slot for the Salvager?
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.23 10:04:00 -
[135]
not sure if this is the right thread for this, but i got a few questions regarding wrecks and rigs.
do you need materials for t2 rigs that can only be obtained through wrecks of t2 player ships?
what are the amounts of materials you need to create a t1 rig/t2 rig?
how much materials do you need that can't be obtained by NPCs?
what are the salvage rates for those non-NPC materials if you salvage a player ship?
why i'm asking this? well ... in the worst case scenario is expect the rise of the cheaper t2 ships (like interceptors/AFs/logistics) to a level where only rigbuilder buy them. ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:27:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
what are the amounts of materials you need to create a t1 rig/t2 rig?
how much materials do you need that can't be obtained by NPCs?
materials for T1 rigs can be viewed via the BPO's , whci happen to be on the market. Most of the t1 rig materials are salvaged goods. It is highly likely that the only supply of those will be what players gather. The current sell orders of the needed trade goods on singularity are huge cheap ones put up by CCP to facilitate testing (you buy bpo & materials and produce your own).
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.23 15:08:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
what are the amounts of materials you need to create a t1 rig/t2 rig?
how much materials do you need that can't be obtained by NPCs?
materials for T1 rigs can be viewed via the BPO's , whci happen to be on the market. Most of the t1 rig materials are salvaged goods. It is highly likely that the only supply of those will be what players gather. The current sell orders of the needed trade goods on singularity are huge cheap ones put up by CCP to facilitate testing (you buy bpo & materials and produce your own).
thx .. i know that you can look up the materials in the BPO .. problem is - where do you get them .. can you build a rig only by looting the materials from NPC wrecks? or do you need to salvage also player wrecks to build vanilla t1 rigs?
if you need for a t2 rigs materials that you can only obtain through t2 player wrecks i estimate a rise in the price of the cheaper t2 ships (interceptors/logistics) ...
want to build a t2 rig? (that likely can be sold for several hundred millions) buy some ares/craptors - "create" wrecks out of them .. salvage the needed materials - build your rig - profit. so more and more t2 ships will be used only for production of t2 rigs ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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BaJaiah
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.23 22:52:00 -
[138]
Edited by: BaJaiah on 23/11/2006 23:02:12
I just tested salvaging on sisi, and I must say it works out pretty good imho.
There is the issue about wrecks not changing state (color in overview or similar) and not being able to rename them, which makes good old fashioned looting a pain. But I'm sure this will be taken care of.
Currently wrecks do disappear when salvaged, so if people clean up after themselves we'll have no more or less lag than before (I hope). They can also be shot down as easily as normal loot-cans.
Instead of complaining about you can't loot in you favorite tier 1 hauler anymore, try to adapt a bit. I present the poor mans scavenger:
Osprey 2 x tractor beams 2 x salvagers 10nm afterburner or MWD if you tend to end your missions before looting and don't go into deadspace. 3 x cargo expanders
[EDIT] Yes tractor beams works on wrecks as well - in case you wondered
This leaves you with 3 med slots and lots of power & CPU to put whatever you want in them.
This scavenger is going 350 m/s (850 m/s MWD) with about 850 m3 cargo hold which really should be able to loot the valuable remains after most encounters.
Of course this can be improved with named/T2 equipment and salvage rigs (when they arrive).
The sweet thing is that the Osprey for some reason have 3 rig slots and the usual 200 points to distribute, resulting in 2x Salvage Tackle rigs and 1 x Salvage Tackle tech 2 rig. This might be surpassed by the Basilisk because it has 2 more high slots than the Osprey, but it only has 2 rig slots...
I'm not sure why we are still plagued by non-named loot in the wrecks and would like to point to an old topic I made regarding this here (look at option 2).
Don't get me wrong - I like to new elements of burned out salvaged stuff, but why ohh why must we still go rummaging through standard loot that any sane pilot would never have fitted on his ship ?
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Kervoran
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:20:00 -
[139]
Just did a bit of testing on wrecks/salvaging. This is from a tier 1 mission that generated 35 wrecks, one of which i shot to see how much ammo/time would be used. I salvaged with a catalyst with 4 Salvager I's fitted, Salvage 3 skill as given automatically for testing, and no other modifiers I know about (no rigs for this for instance). This is still a viable combat ship for T1 missions as I also had 4 guns fitted etc.
Salvage method i used -
1) Target, approach to within 5000 meters and activate salvagers 2) If error "You fail to salvage from the Serpentis Small Wreck because your salvaging equipment cannot be engaged until all loot has been removed from it." approach to within 1500 meters and loot, trying to salvage another target while doing so where another is in range. Salvage first one after looting.
Points I want to make:
1) 35 wrecks in a 30 km radius, more or less, were just too many to keep track of if you just want to find loot and not salvage. It also really complicated targeting by the overview until i filtered them out. Anyone without salvaging skill & equipment fitted is going to have a really hard time - and it's going to be a long time till a new player gets this (see point 2). An option to treat them as cans - i.e. destroy on looting automatically, or some way to tell the ones with loot inside from the ones that don't, is definitely necessary IMO. I'd prefer a color difference to an icon difference. Shooting them up takes too long and too much ammo, not a winner. In my opinion this is a showstopper and MUST be addressed.
2) Prereqs - The prereqs for the skill are way too high in my opinion. WIth a new character I'd tend to concentrate on learning and base skills needed for combat and better ships. I already have 60+ trains planned for the character I'm going to start with Kali's release, all directed at learning and preparing for L2 missions. Mechanic 5 isn't in the list, and Survey 5 is even further. I'd suggest Mechanic 4 and Survey 3?
3) Mechanics - Working just fine IMO. Salvage 3 gives 15% bonus to chance of finding something and the Salvager I gives 5% bonus for a total 30% bonus. From 34 wrecks (I shot one) I got 12 components, 12/34 = 35.29% salvage rate. I concluded (admittedly working from too small of a sample here) either:
base chance is 15%, with bonuses 35% with my skills and equipment, and salvagers do not stack, or; base chance is 0% plus 35% and multiple salvagers do stack.
Whether or not 4 salvager I's on one target up the odds - you will salvage in 1 cycle 80% of the time, 2 cycles 20% of the time. This seemed well balanced!
If the second option is the case and salvagers on one target stack, and I have 2 Salvage Tackle II rigs installed (15% bonus each), Salvage 5, and 8 Salvager I's equipped, the bonus would be 8*5% + 2*15% + 5*5% = 95% chance. Given this, I would think that variants of the base Salvager I, when introduced, would reduce fitting needs and give a small improvement on cycle time.
If salvagers don't stack, and frankly I think this would be a better option (multiple salvagers almost always getting the job done in 1 cycle is a great timesaver and probably enough of a bonus)then you have room to play with the bonus to chance to salvage to differentiate them.
In general I like the system - but I think dealing with large amounts of wrecks for months before you can even start salavaging is a non-starter. Personally I'd have no interest in being a specialized salvager, i.e. doing this as a mini-profession. Trading, mining, research and manufacturing and combat operations are enough variants for me. THis is not suited since we need to loot our kills and the current setup will make this very hard.
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Mor Vince
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Posted - 2006.11.24 04:21:00 -
[140]
Kervoran here - I did some additional testing. Mission was Worlds Collide - I cleared out the initial worp in, the Serpentis Side, and the final area. I collected with a cat fitted with 8 Salvagers and 2 tech 1 salvage tackles (riggings). Total wrecks 50, successes 31. items colleceted 36. 5 times I got 2 items (or 3 times 2 and 1 time 3 - not sure my count got a little fuzzy by the end.)
If percentages on salvagers stack, my chances should have been 75%. If they don't stack but there is a base 15% chance, 55%. success vs attempts was 62%. Perhaps only 1 rigging counts? items vs wrecks 72% - perhaps multiple drops is factored in?
Perhaps my sample is still too small, i.e. i had a run of bad/good luck.
Is approzimately 10% of the time 2 (or 3?) items dropped a bug or by design? I only got one salvage success message in log when it would happen.
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Mor Vince
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Posted - 2006.11.24 04:42:00 -
[141]
You can tell if a wreck has loot from a distance with...drum roll please....
Cargo Scanners!
Yep, cargo scanners do indeed show you what is in that wreck, if anything.
This does not resolve the issue. Adding a target, scan step will NOT reduce the aggravation and you would have just as much trouble keeping track of which wrecks you've scanned as which you have opened. It might save some time in travel but only at the addition of up to 150 more operations per 50 cans (target, scan, untarget if empty, target next etc.)
How about dropping a can next to the wreck for loot?
On another note, if I loot someone else's can I'm a thief and they (and thier corp) get temp. kill rights. Does this hold true for wrecks? Does salvaging a wreck give the temp kill rights?
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Bermag
Point-Zero Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 09:10:00 -
[142]
Is the items you salvage depending on race, ship type or all random? For example would killing Gurista rats always drop the same x types of rig components (just like which loot they drop)?
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.11.24 09:55:00 -
[143]
I have tested a few wrecks before, but I haven't checked wrecks from ships with rigs installed.. has anyone tried this already? arguably there should be a lot more salvage in them...
also, on a side-not, anyone recycled a ship with rigs installed yet?
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.24 14:30:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Mor Vince On another note, if I loot someone else's can I'm a thief and they (and thier corp) get temp. kill rights. Does this hold true for wrecks? Does salvaging a wreck give the temp kill rights?
Salvaging the wreck does not criminal flag you. However you must remember that emptying said wreck will. And most times I've tested salvaging on left behind wrecks the pilot left the loot as well.
For myself I was of the mind of trying to push the idea of non-looting activation of salvager. The requirment to have to empty the can, all the time, makes salvaging somewhat cumbersome in my opinion. I'd be happy to see that salvaging destroys the wreck, and any contained loot, when it is completed regardless of what was in the wreck.
I think it would lead to people being selective in the looting process, why have to carry all the loot if you don't want, as well as encourage salvaging over all. Currently I think there will be a wave of people trying it out (like they did when COSMOS first came out), getting frustrated with it, and declaring it a waste of time.
Of course I'm still leary of this idea as; Salvaging does not criminal flag a person so someone can go around griefing by destroying someone else's wrecks before they can loot it or salvage it.
Eve, the game played according to the lowest of ethics.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Arbenowskee
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2006.11.25 22:33:00 -
[145]
why do i have to empty the wreck before i can salvage it?
why just not get a warning that items still inside will be destroyed if i proceed with salvage? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sig too large. Maximum size 400x120 and 24000 bytes. -Oiri Yusko |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.25 23:01:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Arbenowskee why do i have to empty the wreck before i can salvage it? why just not get a warning that items still inside will be destroyed if i proceed with salvage?
Why are questions never answered.
It just is.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Saria Mysdrial
Amarr Daedalus Technologies
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Posted - 2006.11.26 18:52:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Arbenowskee why do i have to empty the wreck before i can salvage it?
why just not get a warning that items still inside will be destroyed if i proceed with salvage?
To prevent griefing. Since salvaging doesn't do flagging the way can looting does. If you could salvage w/o emptying the wreck first, you could salvage someone elses wrecks (and destroy their loot) w/o their permission and they couldn't blow you up for it.
Sad, but true. |
Crystalyne
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:12:00 -
[148]
OK .. tried this as well .. frankly not that big of a deal. This is similar to Hacking or Archeology in COSMOS missions. At least here you can blow up the rig after looting/salvaging so it won't clutter the interface. Frankly, when I rat .. I mark BS and named rat cans and blow up the rest to get them out of the way. In missions .. I loot everything anyway - cuz I use the mins to build ammo and ships. An extra 10 minutes in cleanup per mission level if I want the salvageable components is not going to be big.
As for rig component rarity... not a big deal ... ever try to build a COSMOS BPC? These take rare components too and they should be rare to have. Rigs should NOT be for everyday ship attachments. These are premium items that should require work.
As for Skills needed. Noobs don't need to worry. There is a new profession template that will give them everything you need to run the salvager (or at least get you very close) .. yes the other topic of starting SP. So this should not be an issue for Noobs. Bigger issue for veterans that didn't train survey up .. but that's no biggie it's only a 5 day cycle.
Just my thoughts
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Havok Pierce
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:28:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Skarraza
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord It would be great if they could also cut down on the number of clicks. A shortcut for "drag everything to my cargo" would be awesome.
CTRL+A (select everything in the window) helps somewhat.
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Havok Pierce
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:28:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Skarraza
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord It would be great if they could also cut down on the number of clicks. A shortcut for "drag everything to my cargo" would be awesome.
CTRL+A (select everything in the window) helps somewhat.
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Rivur'Tam
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:51:00 -
[151]
Looting now is just a tedious chore.
1) There is no way to tell from the overview what's been previously looted without wasting the ammo to destroy the wreck. 2) You're forced to loot/jet just to be able to salvage. 3) Wrecks cloud the overview, even when you'd rather not bother. 4) When looting, you now have an extra click to close the loot window.
For the love of all things holy, add a 'loot all/close window' button to the lootable portion of the wreck. Make the lootable wrecks (not looted, not salvaged) a seperate option on the overview from salvagable wrecks (looted, not salvaged). Large missions are just so tedious now, it's hardly playable.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.29 06:17:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Rivur'Tam Looting now is just a tedious chore.
Is this your experience or a summary of what everyone before you has been saying? Becuase while I'm sure you may think you've laid upon us enlightenment at best you've only just come along a day late and a dollar short.
Nothing wrong with an opinion mate... just read the thread before you lay your thang down. Then you can add something or just /signed and move along.
PS: I expect this thread to start coming alive. The whinage might be overwhelming though.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Ares Nightshade
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Posted - 2006.11.29 08:41:00 -
[153]
As a new player as of about four weeks ago I must say the wrecks setup as it stands now is horrible. I have been running missions and collecting loot and selling it to earn money. Now when I'm picking up loot i have to shoot down every wreck to keep track of ehat I've looted. As I understand it, it would take me months to train the skills to make the wrecks be of any use to me besides a waste of ammo and time. There MUST be some kind of flag to say whether a wreck has been looted or not. I don't really care about empty ones, but I don't feel it's right for me to have to shoot down ships twice just to know what I've checked for loot. I understand the reason for them, and have no problem with that, but how is a new payer going to figure that all out without seeing the old can system? This is honestly bad enough that i may cancel my subscription till it's fixed. It's completely unfriendly to everyone but salvagers. Since Salvaging takes alot of time to train and is certainly not a newbie friendly profession, everyone who is just starting and can't sort through thier loot is just going to get fed up and leave. PLEASE FIX THIS ASAP!!!
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Funbit
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.29 10:28:00 -
[154]
Signed. _______ You never truly understand something until you can explain it to your grandmother. ¬ Albert Einstein |
Kouran Darkblade
Caldari Copasetic Joint Special Task Force Blood Raiders Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:05:00 -
[155]
There realy does need to be a way of identifiying looted wrecks, t2 ammo is hard to come by in 0.0 and i'll be ****ed if im wasting it blowing up wrecks.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:30:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Ares Nightshade As a new player as of about four weeks ago I must say the wrecks setup as it stands now is horrible.
I like the arguments you present. However it should be pointed out that it wouldn't take months to train up this skill however it is a serious diversion for any player under 6 months to focus on. And I mean it is a massive diversion... like a profession. But then that is what it is designed to be.
Salvaging itself is a branch out of the COSMOS mini-professions that was not new player friendly either. This was understandable as much of COSMOS was geared to veteran activity. New players could partake but would have to tap the shoulders of veterans to accomplish things. Truly one of the few adhoc teamwork areas of the game.
Wrecks/Salvaging however is not as isolated as the COSMOS activities were. This is making the problem massively pronounced. And thus, lessons believed to have been learned from the COSMOS experiment are proving to have more problems with it than might have been expected.
Also, currently it appears that wrecks will disappear within about one hour. So leaving your cans will not create lingering works of chaotic can art.
Ganging up with someone can provide an invaluable tool for wreckage sorting. We've been doing the non-fleet gang and our loot guy just tags the cans he's "cleaned" as he goes along. The rest of us then tractor any tagged cans and salvage as we go along. (Those of us with the gear and skill)
This is making for a situation for a specific role within a group of people, can cleaner, even more important. But I expect others will adapt like we have, we don't play this game as a mostly single player instance, but we all agree... the process has needed some additional levels of depth and adjustment.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Dackar Naviner
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:54:00 -
[157]
These wrecks are awful to some one who makes money the way I do. I rat Belts and run missions. I make most of my money from Mods and things I find in the cans or the new wrecks. I have run through it in my head and the past several missions and Belt runs have been very lean. 4 Mods from the "Unothorized Military Presence". You know that mission has a lot of rats. Its hard to tell between Wrecks I have checked or not but I just blow them when I am done with them. The odd thing is there is much less loot than there used to be. Normaly I could come away from "Unotherised Mitary Presens" with 14-20 Mods of different values.
So is it just me or has the loot ratio gone in the pit? Also the normal problem of wrecks being a waste of ammo and time to destroy. Every Ship I destroy leaves a wreck. Unless I destroy the wreck in the Belts It will quickly clutter up with empty Wrecks. As you can imagine thats is a lag causing messy nightmare. Its a great Idea but this one really need some work unto the point of sending it back to the test server.
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Commander Nemesid
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:48:00 -
[158]
Im playing about month and im mission runner. Only income of money is from bounty,rewards and CARGO. I picked every cargo before patch but now its HORRIBLE. About 60-80% of NPC ships doesnt drop cargo. They now all drop wreck and its EMPTY. I dont have nerves to search all empty wreck so my income is going to hell.
Sorry, pls make ships to drop wreck AND cargo. YES, both items. So i can turn off wrecks from overwiev.
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Megadon
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:38:00 -
[159]
Well the deal is that because every ship USED to drop tons of tech 1 mods, the tech 1 market was in the toilet.
Sooooo, now they don't drop tons of mods which actually is a boost to those that spent billions in BPO's and research to build tech 1 items so the economy for tech 1 got a huge boost by this.
The flip side of the coin is that if you train up to salvage wrecks properly, you can supply the rarer materials that are required to build rigs which will help offset your loss of income from what used to be npc's dropping tons of tech 1 gear.
This is actually a good thing.
So now there is a bit of strategy to looting and npc'ing for isk and it brings a whole new profession to the game.
Exploration and Salvaging.
So that is the big picture and I think it's a long over due improvement.
Your welcome
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:57:00 -
[160]
I've just completed L3 "Illegal Activity 1/3" for Motsu Ititeimo (Oimmo), and (with a Salvager I fitted, Salvaging skill at L1) proceeded to (slowly) salvage each and every wreck in the mission (including the Gallente Miners).
Ok, it took a while, as I only had a ~10% chance to salvage per activation and there are quite a few ships in that mission (many support frigs, several Gallente Officer, Gallente Navy Thorax x2, etc). So far, all I got is this... Most of the time (9/10): "2006.11.29 19:xx:xx Notify Your salvaging attempt failed this time." Rarely (then wreck gone): "2006.11.29 19:xx:xx Notify You successfully salvage from the Wreck. Unfortunately there was nothing to be salvaged."
So... is salvage really bugged, or is it just the "salvage tables" on the navy wrecks ? Didn't get a chance to test on anything else yet. Anybody got even a SINGLE component out of salvaging so far ? If yes, what/how/where ? _____ -sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:50:00 -
[161]
I think that Mission and Deadspace NPCs have a very low component drop rate and hope the same is true for the standard belt rats.
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:11:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 29/11/2006 23:27:40 OK so this will come across as a whine but...
If the purpose of wrecks was to extend missions so that they took longer then they are a success. The problem I have is that the processing of wrecks for loot is very very repetative. Lock, tractor, open, loot (if any), unlock, destroy.. and repeat. Unlike before wrecks when ships only dropped cans when there was loot, this new system drops 2-4 times then number of objects.
I found that after 3 simple Level 3 missions My wrists and hands were becoming very fatigued and sore. I was taking breaks, getting up and moving around etc, but still had problems. I know I had some problems before with loot processing but now it is worse. Before it was 5 clicks per can now it it 8 clicks per wreck.
This means in a mission before where there were 10 ships, 4 of which dropped a can I would be clicking 20 times. Now I have to click 32 times for the ones with loot and a further 42 times for the ones that are empty. So the RSI click factor has gone from 20 to 74! That is nearly 4 times!
The sad truth of the matter is that I may not be able to physically continue to keep doing this. I already use wrist supports, breaks, changes in seating position and a bunch of other tactics to combat RSI.
So I guess, I might be forced to be a miner. Oh joy...
Mik |
SoulTornado
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:32:00 -
[163]
Hello.
I really need to yell and scream at someone, the wreck system is horrible. Spent 10 minutes completing the mission objectives and thirty minutes running through the wrecks and blowing them up! It's stupid and a downgrade from the previous system ...
Color code wrecks : EMPTY or WITH CONTENT Option to remove empty wrecks from overview!!!
Gawd this is stupid , really!
Have a good day now, for this shure made my day... well WEEK, god nows when youll fix it!
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Ares Nightshade
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:52:00 -
[164]
If Salvaging is supposed to be a mini profession then why is it that every mission runner is now forced to deal with every wreck?
Couldn't we at least have the old can system back and just create wrecks aswell that non salvagers could ignore? When a mission item is dropped like marines or VIPs it is dropped in a can that pops when empty.
Let's go back to putting normal loot in cans that pop when empty and leave the wrecks to be dealt with by those who want to salvage. Just imagine how cumbersome this is on new players who would take 5 minutes to shoot down a wreck of a ship they already killed just to know that it was empty so they don't search it again.
At the VERY LEAST make wrecks taggable so that those using ammo don't have to waste isk just keeping track of what has been searched! This needs to be high priority to the devs or there will be alot of unhappy new players out there. I am among those right now.
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Probita
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:31:00 -
[165]
Yeahh ... awfull system. I completes a lev3 mission in about 15 minutes, but taked me 25 minutes to check all and every single wreck left behind ... I didn't wanted to try another mission after that ... It's a waste of time. And that were a simple mission. A Gurista Extravaganza will be 2 hours to complete ... 4 hours to loot ... no no noooo.
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Schwaxpl
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:58:00 -
[166]
yes , please fix that , since revelation , i just did one mission and when i saw the wreck system ... it's like we're forced to train salvage skill ( wich is called "mini profession" , not "vital profession for looters" ), please make a system so that we don't have to destroy wrecks , maybe by keeping the loot cans separates from the wrecks , that would be the best idea imo , salvager could salvage and looters could still take their loot in cans , the can system was perfect imo , the wreck system is a regression , i'd not be surprised if peoples leave the game because of that
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Lisena Agardis
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:07:00 -
[167]
Hm i like the wreckage and salvaging mode... it's only half a month to learn and now you can get even more loot :) and if your neighbours agree, you can harvest their victims too :)
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Senyn
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:53:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Senyn on 30/11/2006 20:54:30 Thanks a lot to CCP for this new feature: wreckage, salvaging, and removing the can system from the game. Thanks a lot I am playing eve now since 14 months, the last 10 or 12 weeks very much, too much, since I have a lot of private work and this work suffered from playing so much EVE. Now things are going to change. With this piece of bullsh*t programmed into the game I am just thinking not only of reducing playing time but even to quit my abo for EVE. The reasons were already told in the posts before. Again for confirmation: as a mission runner and as such not only living from the bounty but also from the loot, this game is not playable anymore (running missions). Dozens of wrecks, in some missions even two or three wrecks of 40 have a loot, flying from wreck tot wreck just to seee that many of them are empty, NOPE!! You even cannot beginn looting during fight as I did it before. I can keep track of 6 targets, with a Mega I have 8 weapons. But when fighting and looting, I can only target 5 enemies instead of 6 cause I need one free target slot for targeting the ship wreck I have recently looted. Huh, this is ****** Same with weapons. I can't use all weapons while fighting cause I need at least on or two quiet for blowing up the wreck after looking into it. Huuuh, this is ****** Yes, I can also wait until all ships have popped and only then begin to loot. LOL, do this in an Extravaganza. It is even not possible without the double or triple time (ore more) you need for killing the ships, when waiting with looting until the level is emptied from rats. Huuuh, this is ******
I am playing computer games for about 20 years, and I have played many thousands of hours (I am a liar, it were much much more ) an I agree, I understand the idea behind salvaging, but this new feature is ********. Can't remember that I have seen such an aggravation before in a game.
So maybe goodbye for ever .....
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Talani Allure
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:11:00 -
[169]
i have 2 questions. Where do you get salvage modules and why dont I have a picture?
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Di Jiensai
Gallente Myster0ns
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:25:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Talani Allure i have 2 questions. Where do you get salvage modules and why dont I have a picture?
you get salvage modules in the market, called "Salvager I" and you dont have a picture, because, well i dont know why, but i heared someone at CCP will be fired, if we dont have pics until christmas
on a Diffrent note: Mercenarys, rogue drones, and faction navy ships leave broken wrecks wich dont yield materials when salvaged.
And I will stopp reading forums now for 2 weeks, because if i read one more "OMG!!!11! WRECKS ARE CRAP!!!" post i will get a shotgun and clean up humanitys gene pool a bit. I realy dont know how you CCP guys can stand that.
--- The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues |
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HooFlungDung
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:58:00 -
[171]
Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:05:25 Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:01:23 The reason why there is so many topics e.g. "Wrecks are C R A P" is because the loot system is ruined at the moment.
If CCP implement something which is 95% a waste of time and breaks the "practicality/fun" of something that worked before then they deserve to recieve criticism. That's what forums are for - people voice their opinions.
If there a lot of posts saying something like this it more than likely means that the majority of people's opinions playing the game think that the loot system is now "broken". If you disagree, then sorry, but you are in the minority.
And yes The loot/wreck system is F U B A R and a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME ATM.
simple - FIX IT CCP OR YOU WILL LOSE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE OF IT.
What I think is amusing is that CCP introduce an 800K+ SP start for new characters to attract more new players, but then screw up the loot system and make it 500% longer and harder to loot their missions just to scare them off.....
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Di Jiensai
Gallente Myster0ns
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:36:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Di Jiensai on 01/12/2006 11:37:17
Originally by: HooFlungDung Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:05:25 Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:01:23 The reason why there is so many topics e.g. "Wrecks are C R A P" is because the loot system is ruined at the moment.
If CCP implement something which is 95% a waste of time and breaks the "practicality/fun" of something that worked before then they deserve to recieve criticism. That's what forums are for - people voice their opinions.
If there a lot of posts saying something like this it more than likely means that the majority of people's opinions playing the game think that the loot system is now "broken". If you disagree, then sorry, but you are in the minority.
And yes The loot/wreck system is F U B A R and a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME ATM.
The point is not that it needs fixing, but that THE FIX IS ALLREADY ANNOUNCED.
so, 90% of these posts are completly redundant, and should be considered spamming.
[edit: Yes i said i wouldnt read the forums for 2 weeks. i lied.] --- The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues |
Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2006.12.04 05:47:00 -
[173]
Announced and in the patch notes the skill requirements for salvage have dropped from Mech 5 and Survey 5 to mech 3 and survey 3
Making the mini profession much more available and achievable.
In some ways I think it should be 4 and 4 just to put it a little way off for people. LOL
M |
Sentar Manar
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.04 18:46:00 -
[174]
Well I read the patch notes. They are putting in an option to let us know where we have been but there is no looted/unlooted change. The lower skill Reqs make it easier to be able to salvage however its still a long and unpleasent chore...
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