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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.19 14:39:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Hoshi on 19/11/2006 14:40:24
Originally by: Donna Darko
*EDIT* my next test will involve scanning 100 times for all types of ships I can fly and eject in space (hope to find someone else in Lonetrek who's willing to help me).
No need to do that, we already have the math figured out.
Stiletto 31m sig radius, 9 points sensor strength, 31/9 = 3.44 signal size. Observetor probe, Strength 1.
3.44 * 1 (as observetor have 1000au range we don't have to bother with strength reduction for range) = 3.44% chance of finding it per scan or once every 29 scans avg. Train the strength skill to level 5 and it becomes 4.3% chance or once every 24 scans.
So yes finding a single small ship in a deepsafe is going to take a while, on the other hand if it's a large (like a BS for example) or a group of ships I would be surprised if it took you more than 5 min total from first probe dropped until you are sitting ontop of them.
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Donna Darko
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Posted - 2006.11.19 22:04:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Hoshi So yes finding a single small ship in a deepsafe is going to take a while...
That is one of the reasons I want to scan and find ships: scavenging. With the way Observator works, this means I have a lot less chances (unless I spend like hours scanning the same system... *slaps head in pain*) to find a ship I don't know is in the system and I cannot scan for (i.e. deep safe spot).
On my 30 scans I found the Stiletto twice on the first 10 scans, once on the next 10 scans, 0 (ZERO) times on the next 10 scans. Stories. |
Zallazaer
Caldari Shinra Cosa Nostra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.20 09:45:00 -
[183]
Ok, I've been scanning for quite some time now. I've used a ferret and finally found a deadspace signature on my scan.
signal strength: 0.004648 distance 2.500 accuracy 7.854
Isn't it odd, that I've found one with a ferret? I thought the new racial probes should help finding them. But since the range of these probes is very limited, I'm not sure how they are of any use.
Now, what do these numbers mean? And how should I home in on the signature?
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:28:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Zallazaer
Now, what do these numbers mean? And how should I home in on the signature?
You got very lucky it seems... Just use the new Quest probes and narrow it down till a sift probe makes you land on top of the signature.
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:29:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Zallazaer Ok, I've been scanning for quite some time now. I've used a ferret and finally found a deadspace signature on my scan.
signal strength: 0.004648 distance 2.500 accuracy 7.854
Isn't it odd, that I've found one with a ferret? I thought the new racial probes should help finding them. But since the range of these probes is very limited, I'm not sure how they are of any use.
Now, what do these numbers mean? And how should I home in on the signature?
Nice one! Either you have scanned really a lot or you had a lot of luck.
You have a signal strength of 0.004648, which means that only one of 215 scans with a ferret probe would be successful! The distance should be in AU, so the object is 2.5AU from your position. The accuracy should be in km, but I donŠt know exactly (canŠt login at the moment), specially I donŠt know on which position the dot is. I think you are 7854 km away from the signature.
What you can do: a) If you can use racial probes: Warp to your scan position and drop a sift probe (with a normal scan probe launcher). You should get at least a scan probability of 0.9296 (=0.004648*400/2) or 4.648 with the correct faction probe. b) You can warp to the scan position and try to scan with snoop probes. About 1 of 22 scans should be successful. I think the scan deviation of the snoop probe is low enough, so you should be able to warp within the grid of the signature, which will spawn then. c) If CCP adds the deadspace signatures again to directional scanner, you can take a fast frig and fly into the direction of the deadspace signature. When are very close to the signature and nothing is shown on overview: make a BM, warpout and warp back to your BM. In the last patch, where deadspace signatures were on directional scanner, the deadspace site only spawned, when you warped to the grid and not if you only fly there (with microwarpdrive).
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Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:30:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Zallazaer
Now, what do these numbers mean? And how should I home in on the signature?
You got very lucky it seems... Just use the new Quest probes and narrow it down till a sift probe makes you land on top of the signature.
No need for the quest probe, just warp to the result and launch a sift probe.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.20 11:49:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Donna Darko
Originally by: Hoshi So yes finding a single small ship in a deepsafe is going to take a while...
That is one of the reasons I want to scan and find ships: scavenging. With the way Observator works, this means I have a lot less chances (unless I spend like hours scanning the same system... *slaps head in pain*) to find a ship I don't know is in the system and I cannot scan for (i.e. deep safe spot).
On my 30 scans I found the Stiletto twice on the first 10 scans, once on the next 10 scans, 0 (ZERO) times on the next 10 scans.
The solution to this, if it is indeed an issue, is another 1000au range probe which simply lists all applicable objects in the system but makes no attempt to actually locate them. This gives you a complete list of present items without giving you too much of a head-start actually finding them. If you wanted to make exploration less directional-scanner-based, you could have a complete sized set of these and remove deadspace signatures from the scanner, so you have to work out where to probe using probes rather than the scanner. This would probably lead to cargo space issues fairly quickly though.
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Zallazaer
Caldari Shinra Cosa Nostra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.20 12:44:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Helison
Nice one! Either you have scanned really a lot or you had a lot of luck.
You have a signal strength of 0.004648, which means that only one of 215 scans with a ferret probe would be successful! The distance should be in AU, so the object is 2.5AU from your position. The accuracy should be in km, but I donŠt know exactly (canŠt login at the moment), specially I donŠt know on which position the dot is. I think you are 7854 km away from the signature.
Ok, this is what I've done. I've warped to the signature. Made a BM. Then launched a Ladar comb.
Deadspace signature strength 1.99999 distance 7.852 accuracy 0
I warp to it. A gate! I make a BM. On the map is shows as "pirate hideout Arnar". I warp through the gate, and I see a veldspar roid field with a few bad guys it also has another gate to a deeper level.
Now I'm targetted by the rats and don't want to loose my rigg fitted buzzard. I warp to the station and get my cruize raven. I warp back to the last BM: no gate.....
Darn. Apparently the gate disappears if you dock at a station or leave the system, just like moon probes (?) I'm speculating here.
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Seramyr l'Ethia
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:01:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Seramyr l''Ethia on 20/11/2006 17:01:21 Apparently either scannable deadspace signatures are gang-only or we're going to be seeing some highly unorthodox covops setups.
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Harry Bucannon
The Bratwurst Burglars
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:46:00 -
[190]
Can someone please enlighten me as to if there are any rigs that can help speed up probing?
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Zallazaer
Caldari Shinra Cosa Nostra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:06:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Harry Bucannon Can someone please enlighten me as to if there are any rigs that can help speed up probing?
Electronic analysis rig blueprint creates emission scope sharpner tech1, which increases the ship analyser modules. You need conductive polymer, damaged artificial neural network and tripped power circuit. The skills industry lvl1 and Jury rigging lvl1 are required to manufacture.
Gravity capacitor upgrade blueprint creates gravity capacitor upgrade tech1, which reduces a ship scan probe scan time by 10%.
I've built both riggs and fitted them on my buzzard. Great improvements.
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Harry Bucannon
The Bratwurst Burglars
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:22:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Zallazaer
Electronic analysis rig blueprint creates emission scope sharpner tech1, which increases the ship analyser modules. You need conductive polymer, damaged artificial neural network and tripped power circuit. The skills industry lvl1 and Jury rigging lvl1 are required to manufacture.
Gravity capacitor upgrade blueprint creates gravity capacitor upgrade tech1, which reduces a ship scan probe scan time by 10%.
I've built both riggs and fitted them on my buzzard. Great improvements.
What does the emission scope sharpner do to probing?, description is not clear.
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Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:45:00 -
[193]
I am very curious as how the new probe system will effect mission runners in low sec as I typicaly take a week or two, here and there, to make some isk. Any comments on how much easier this new system is going to make it to find mission runners?
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:48:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Helison
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
You got very lucky it seems... Just use the new Quest probes and narrow it down till a sift probe makes you land on top of the signature.
No need for the quest probe, just warp to the result and launch a sift probe.
Erm... I thought the new sift probes have 0.5 AU range? If the derivation is 2.5 AU you would need quite a bit of luck to find it I guess.
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Zallazaer
Caldari Shinra Cosa Nostra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:51:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Harry Bucannon
What does the emission scope sharpner do to probing?, description is not clear.
That is a lazy question. Get on sisi and try it out.
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Langhorn
Gallente BMF Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:58:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Langhorn on 20/11/2006 20:10:28
Originally by: Harry Bucannon
Originally by: Zallazaer
Electronic analysis rig blueprint creates emission scope sharpner tech1, which increases the ship analyser modules. You need conductive polymer, damaged artificial neural network and tripped power circuit. The skills industry lvl1 and Jury rigging lvl1 are required to manufacture.
Gravity capacitor upgrade blueprint creates gravity capacitor upgrade tech1, which reduces a ship scan probe scan time by 10%.
I've built both riggs and fitted them on my buzzard. Great improvements.
What does the emission scope sharpner do to probing?, description is not clear.
It has a 20% "Access Difficulty Bonus Modifier", which is the same bonus the hacking rig gets. and looking at a codebreaker module, the stat that governs success chance of hacking a object is called "Access Difficulty Bonus", but when fitting a codebreaker module, there is no increase. So it's possible this rig is broken at the moment.
edit: Actually, I now think this rig is for Archaeology modules, Since they are considered "Analyzer modules" - according to the archaeology skill description
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:20:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Tribunal I am very curious as how the new probe system will effect mission runners in low sec as I typicaly take a week or two, here and there, to make some isk. Any comments on how much easier this new system is going to make it to find mission runners?
Let me put it like this, once I have the new skills trained I can bet you 100m that if you are in a BS I will find you (as in warp in on top of you without you knowing it) within 5 min of me entering the system, unless you take special measures to avoid it like fitting ECCM (will only delay it a bit) or hitting the scanner every 30sec to see my probes or warp around all the time.
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Borgholio
Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:40:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Borgholio on 20/11/2006 20:42:09 After experimenting with probes for awhile, it seems the longer range "normal" probes (Ferret / Observator) are next to useless in finding anything smaller than a capital ship. I decided to use some of the newer scan probes, but even the long range Quest probes only have a 4au scan range. In order to find anything, it would seem that I need to fly around a system and drop a half dozen of these things in order to successfully scan for an object. With that being said, how many of you have actually found objects such as gas clouds, hidden deadspace signatures, and things like that? Was it necessary to drop several Quest probes near major celestial objects (stargates, planets, etc...)? ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Harry Bucannon
The Bratwurst Burglars
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Posted - 2006.11.21 11:48:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Zallazaer
That is a lazy question. Get on sisi and try it out.
After trying it out, im not convinced that it does anything!. So what do you think it does?
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Langhorn
Gallente BMF Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.21 15:36:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Harry Bucannon
Originally by: Zallazaer
That is a lazy question. Get on sisi and try it out.
After trying it out, im not convinced that it does anything!. So what do you think it does?
it boosts the archaeology modules chance of success by 20%. Level 1 Archaeology + Analyzer 1 module + Rig = 6% chance, instead of 5%
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Harry Bucannon
The Bratwurst Burglars
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:10:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Harry Bucannon on 21/11/2006 16:33:03
Originally by: Langhorn
it boosts the archaeology modules chance of success by 20%. Level 1 Archaeology + Analyzer 1 module + Rig = 6% chance, instead of 5%
So from that we can see it has nothing to do with probes / exploration?.
Would some of the rigs that fiddle with the ships sig's effect probing?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:55:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Zallazaer
Originally by: Helison
Nice one! Either you have scanned really a lot or you had a lot of luck.
You have a signal strength of 0.004648, which means that only one of 215 scans with a ferret probe would be successful! The distance should be in AU, so the object is 2.5AU from your position. The accuracy should be in km, but I donŠt know exactly (canŠt login at the moment), specially I donŠt know on which position the dot is. I think you are 7854 km away from the signature.
Ok, this is what I've done. I've warped to the signature. Made a BM. Then launched a Ladar comb.
Deadspace signature strength 1.99999 distance 7.852 accuracy 0
I warp to it. A gate! I make a BM. On the map is shows as "pirate hideout Arnar". I warp through the gate, and I see a veldspar roid field with a few bad guys it also has another gate to a deeper level.
Now I'm targetted by the rats and don't want to loose my rigg fitted buzzard. I warp to the station and get my cruize raven. I warp back to the last BM: no gate.....
Darn. Apparently the gate disappears if you dock at a station or leave the system, just like moon probes (?) I'm speculating here.
It is a joke, right? So the deadspace complex needed for the data interface and datacore for invention require some undred of scanning to find one (probably not the right one ), then to go and explore immediatly in a probe fitted ship, with hacking and archeology scanners in the hope of finding the data cores and interfaces. And then someone say that the datacores and interfaces will not be monopolized by the big alliances. Who has the time/resources to launch hundred of probes in a system and then immediatly storm the location found? After the 4-5 unsuccessful expedition with a small fleet to defend and support the researcher a small corp will send him to the deepest hell.
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Mordrake
MetaForge
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:59:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Mordrake on 22/11/2006 00:01:50 Edited by: Mordrake on 21/11/2006 23:59:52
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Zallazaer
Originally by: Helison
Nice one! Either you have scanned really a lot or you had a lot of luck.
You have a signal strength of 0.004648, which means that only one of 215 scans with a ferret probe would be successful! The distance should be in AU, so the object is 2.5AU from your position. The accuracy should be in km, but I donŠt know exactly (canŠt login at the moment), specially I donŠt know on which position the dot is. I think you are 7854 km away from the signature.
Ok, this is what I've done. I've warped to the signature. Made a BM. Then launched a Ladar comb.
Deadspace signature strength 1.99999 distance 7.852 accuracy 0
I warp to it. A gate! I make a BM. On the map is shows as "pirate hideout Arnar". I warp through the gate, and I see a veldspar roid field with a few bad guys it also has another gate to a deeper level.
Now I'm targetted by the rats and don't want to loose my rigg fitted buzzard. I warp to the station and get my cruize raven. I warp back to the last BM: no gate.....
Darn. Apparently the gate disappears if you dock at a station or leave the system, just like moon probes (?) I'm speculating here.
It is a joke, right? So the deadspace complex needed for the data interface and datacore for invention require some undred of scanning to find one (probably not the right one ), then to go and explore immediatly in a probe fitted ship, with hacking and archeology scanners in the hope of finding the data cores and interfaces. And then someone say that the datacores and interfaces will not be monopolized by the big alliances. Who has the time/resources to launch hundred of probes in a system and then immediatly storm the location found? After the 4-5 unsuccessful expedition with a small fleet to defend and support the researcher a small corp will send him to the deepest hell.
Yes this goes against what the Devs said it would be...
"Find the secret complex and harvest it yourself or sell the location to the highest bidder"
"The crusty old prospector that finds the rare Asteroid field and slowly mines it out"
Complete crud if these deadspace signatures once finally found disapear like the morning mist as soon as you warp off or dock.
I hope this gets fixed before it goes live!!
"Arte et Marte" |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:49:00 -
[204]
I need to get on and test the latest changes properly. Certainly when I was testing under the "old" system each find would stay put for several days.
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Matuk Grymwal
PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 07:53:00 -
[205]
It would be nice if Astrometric Pinpointing was seeded on Kali
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:09:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Tribunal I am very curious as how the new probe system will effect mission runners in low sec as I typicaly take a week or two, here and there, to make some isk. Any comments on how much easier this new system is going to make it to find mission runners?
Let me put it like this, once I have the new skills trained I can bet you 100m that if you are in a BS I will find you (as in warp in on top of you without you knowing it) within 5 min of me entering the system, unless you take special measures to avoid it like fitting ECCM (will only delay it a bit) or hitting the scanner every 30sec to see my probes or warp around all the time.
well, im sure thats the very best thing to help bring people into lowsec space and populate the worthless areas. how long before the pirates start more whining about "no mission runners will come let us kill them! I demand a nerf to ruin their gameplay and make their risk all my reward!"
lowsec agents are very nice indeed, but a mission runner wont blindly walk off a cliff and throw away NPC combat fit battleships all week. maybe for a few days, before going up higher to seek fortune.
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Zeromancer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:52:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Tribunal I am very curious as how the new probe system will effect mission runners in low sec as I typicaly take a week or two, here and there, to make some isk. Any comments on how much easier this new system is going to make it to find mission runners?
Let me put it like this, once I have the new skills trained I can bet you 100m that if you are in a BS I will find you (as in warp in on top of you without you knowing it) within 5 min of me entering the system, unless you take special measures to avoid it like fitting ECCM (will only delay it a bit) or hitting the scanner every 30sec to see my probes or warp around all the time.
Except that this wouldn't work in most cases. Almoust all of the missions are in deadspacepockets and you will end up at the warpgate to these pockets. As a lowsec missionrunner i would have to change the way i do missions by not staying close to the gates when i warp into a pocket. I will start to move my ship away from the gate as soon as i enter and get some distance to it. That way if someone warps in after me i will have some distance from the gate and can either run away or kill the person that found me. This will actually make missionrunning a bit more fun as i now can get some pvp mixed with the mission and get better loot out of it. ----------------------------------------- I'm baaack!!
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:57:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Zeromancer
Except that this wouldn't work in most cases. Almoust all of the missions are in deadspacepockets and you will end up at the warpgate to these pockets. As a lowsec missionrunner i would have to change the way i do missions by not staying close to the gates when i warp into a pocket. I will start to move my ship away from the gate as soon as i enter and get some distance to it. That way if someone warps in after me i will have some distance from the gate and can either run away or kill the person that found me. This will actually make missionrunning a bit more fun as i now can get some pvp mixed with the mission and get better loot out of it.
There are lots of missions that don't use gates as well and you are not considering all the options. For example in the pirate gang there might be a pilgrim or arazu (pilgrim vs turret ships, arazu with sensor damps vs raven). The covert finds the gate and the pilgrim/arazu goes in cloaked to tackle you.
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Zeromancer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:17:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Zeromancer
Except that this wouldn't work in most cases. Almoust all of the missions are in deadspacepockets and you will end up at the warpgate to these pockets. As a lowsec missionrunner i would have to change the way i do missions by not staying close to the gates when i warp into a pocket. I will start to move my ship away from the gate as soon as i enter and get some distance to it. That way if someone warps in after me i will have some distance from the gate and can either run away or kill the person that found me. This will actually make missionrunning a bit more fun as i now can get some pvp mixed with the mission and get better loot out of it.
There are lots of missions that don't use gates as well and you are not considering all the options. For example in the pirate gang there might be a pilgrim or arazu (pilgrim vs turret ships, arazu with sensor damps vs raven). The covert finds the gate and the pilgrim/arazu goes in cloaked to tackle you.
Yes that can happend, but then again mabye the cloacked Pilgrim/Arazu is't the only cloacked ship in there ----------------------------------------- I'm baaack!!
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Arthegon
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:35:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Effei Gloom how about a button to remove:
1. empty floating ships (boardable) like shuttle and noob ships...(empty ships inside FF) from scann results 2. ships of gang mates / alliance / corp mates / pilots with high standings from scannresults -> apply overview settings on scannresults!
main problem at moment is still that you cannot scan for war targets effectively as long as you get results for friendly ships
You would like it all handed to u on a silver plate wouldnt u? The LESS automation stuff we get in this game the better for the gameplay.
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