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Xaneth
P47
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 20:22:40 -
[1] - Quote
Hey all,
Thinking of picking up a Cerberus and using RLMLs on it.
Does anyone know if the 35s reload time is included in DPS calculations you find in fitting tools like EFT?
Thanks. |
Belthazor4011
For Your Bacon Only The Marmite Collective
162
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Posted - 2015.04.11 20:38:36 -
[2] - Quote
Xaneth wrote:Hey all,
Thinking of picking up a Cerberus and using RLMLs on it.
Does anyone know if the 35s reload time is included in DPS calculations you find in fitting tools like EFT?
Thanks.
Depends if in the preferences you've selected the Include relead time for DPS option
I think its off by default |
Xaneth
P47
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 22:28:41 -
[3] - Quote
Belthazor4011 wrote:Xaneth wrote:Hey all,
Thinking of picking up a Cerberus and using RLMLs on it.
Does anyone know if the 35s reload time is included in DPS calculations you find in fitting tools like EFT?
Thanks. Depends if in the preferences you've selected the Include relead time for DPS option I think its off by default
Thanks. I've been using an android app called Eve Droid. It doesn't have that option so the RLML Cerb was looking pretty good lol
When I fired up EFT on my PC I found the option you mentioned. Now the RLML Cerb is looking less great heh
Thanks for the tip |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1143
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Posted - 2015.04.12 00:49:27 -
[4] - Quote
well, you're supposed to kill something within the 20 volleys you get. That's the idea behind the "rapid" missile platforms.
If you want sustained damage, use the other types. |
Quattras Peione
Gentlemen of Fortune.
77
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Posted - 2015.04.13 14:02:01 -
[5] - Quote
Precisely what Tsukino said. The RLML is great for blitz attacks on cruiser or smaller vessels, and absolutely shreds frigates. It all depends on your intended use. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
269
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 22:29:24 -
[6] - Quote
If you divide your missles in 2 groups and only shoot 1 group at a time you lose 0 dps overall but you actually do sustained damage instead of burst. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16260
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Posted - 2015.04.17 09:29:10 -
[7] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:If you divide your missles in 2 groups and only shoot 1 group at a time you lose 0 dps overall but you actually do sustained damage instead of burst.
It's almost always better to.Do 200 dps for 30 seconds than to do 100dps for 60s
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
269
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Posted - 2015.04.17 11:38:25 -
[8] - Quote
It really depends, if you 1v1 a opponent with an active tank - yes. If you try to kill something as fast as possible before the rest of the gang lands - yes. If you try to break logis - yes. If you get tackled -yes.
For the rest, not really. If you enter reload and a frigate of any kind lands (llets assume you are a kiter, as most rlml ships are) you cannot even scratch if for 35 seconds, which basicely is death for you, sustained 300+dps however (in the rlml cerbs case) that are applied perfectly will kill it fast enough - allowing you to kill the gang. Same with any other unforseen event, for example if a sniper ABC lands.
In bigger fleets that doesnt count as you have dedicated anti frig ships and such and arent reliant on having ammo loaded when a ceptor lands or anything else happens. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
941
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Posted - 2015.04.17 15:00:21 -
[9] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:It really depends, if you 1v1 a opponent with an active tank - yes. If you try to kill something as fast as possible before the rest of the gang lands - yes. If you try to break logis - yes. If you get tackled -yes.
For the rest, not really. If you enter reload and a frigate of any kind lands (llets assume you are a kiter, as most rlml ships are) you cannot even scratch if for 35 seconds, which basicely is death for you, sustained 300+dps however (in the rlml cerbs case) that are applied perfectly will kill it fast enough - allowing you to kill the gang. Same with any other unforseen event, for example if a sniper ABC lands.
In bigger fleets that doesnt count as you have dedicated anti frig ships and such and arent reliant on having ammo loaded when a ceptor lands or anything else happens.
I like you. I'm betting you are a LOT of fun on comms.
Your typical cerb either has enough buffer to laugh at a single frigate during reload or is sporting a large or XL asb. A reasonable cerb fit will always laugh at a solitary frigate (what solo frigate pilot in their right mind would engage a cerb anyway???)
RLML cerbs are anti frigate support. The don't depend on support to take out tackling frigates, they are the support that takes out tackling frigates. At this point, I'm wondering what you put in your fleet to protect your RLML cerbs from frigates. Please? |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
269
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Posted - 2015.04.17 18:35:24 -
[10] - Quote
:/
Way to miss the point.
Say im fighting a reasonable gang of 2 ac ruptures, 1 dragoon, 1 thrasher, 1 arbi, a moa and a maller. You unload all your volley into the 2 dessies and you enter reload - a malediciton lands - it heats for you, scrams you/webs you. In the 30+ seconds it takes to kill it the rest of the fleet has cought up to you and you are a dead cerb.
If you only shot half your missiles, male lands - burns for you, gets ripped appart because 300dps is still a lot vs them and you can easily solo the entire fleet.
The same holds true for 2-3 people more, if any tackle lands while you are in reload you are dead. With 10people, as said you have dedicated anti frig ships (cause cerbs can fit that role, but they arent the best at it) and it doesnt really matter. |
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Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
169
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Posted - 2015.04.18 22:20:44 -
[11] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote::/
Way to miss the point.
Say im fighting a reasonable gang of 2 ac ruptures, 1 dragoon, 1 thrasher, 1 arbi, a moa and a maller. You unload all your volley into the 2 dessies and you enter reload - a malediciton lands - it heats for you, scrams you/webs you. In the 30+ seconds it takes to kill it the rest of the fleet has cought up to you and you are a dead cerb.
If you only shot half your missiles, male lands - burns for you, gets ripped appart because 300dps is still a lot vs them and you can easily solo the entire fleet.
The same holds true for 2-3 people more, if any tackle lands while you are in reload you are dead. With 10people, as said you have dedicated anti frig ships (cause cerbs can fit that role, but they arent the best at it) and it doesnt really matter.
What? Why are you still on grid if you just entered reload? You killed two destroyers, you cant do much to the rest of the ships on field so why are you waiting around to get tackled?
Cerbs absolutely are one of the best anti-frigate/tackle support ships in the game. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
272
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Posted - 2015.04.19 10:14:03 -
[12] - Quote
Cause you can easily solo the entire gang and kill them all? |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1153
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Posted - 2015.04.19 11:08:20 -
[13] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote::/
Way to miss the point.
Say im fighting a reasonable gang of 2 ac ruptures, 1 dragoon, 1 thrasher, 1 arbi, a moa and a maller. You unload all your volley into the 2 dessies and you enter reload - a malediciton lands - it heats for you, scrams you/webs you. In the 30+ seconds it takes to kill it the rest of the fleet has cought up to you and you are a dead cerb.
If you only shot half your missiles, male lands - burns for you, gets ripped appart because 300dps is still a lot vs them and you can easily solo the entire fleet.
The same holds true for 2-3 people more, if any tackle lands while you are in reload you are dead. With 10people, as said you have dedicated anti frig ships (cause cerbs can fit that role, but they arent the best at it) and it doesnt really matter.
in what world would you require all 20 volleys in a cerb to kill T1 destroyers?
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Cataca
Aspiring Nomads
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 15:33:58 -
[14] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote::/
Way to miss the point.
Say im fighting a reasonable gang of 2 ac ruptures, 1 dragoon, 1 thrasher, 1 arbi, a moa and a maller. You unload all your volley into the 2 dessies and you enter reload - a malediciton lands - it heats for you, scrams you/webs you. In the 30+ seconds it takes to kill it the rest of the fleet has cought up to you and you are a dead cerb.
If you only shot half your missiles, male lands - burns for you, gets ripped appart because 300dps is still a lot vs them and you can easily solo the entire fleet.
The same holds true for 2-3 people more, if any tackle lands while you are in reload you are dead. With 10people, as said you have dedicated anti frig ships (cause cerbs can fit that role, but they arent the best at it) and it doesnt really matter.
This is advertising split launching of two seperate RLMLs groups, right?
So... where exactly in this scenario would 150 sustained damage over 70 seconds help versus 35 seconds of 300 dps. Because thats what happens if you split your weapons and only fire half of them for half the time, half dps.
Your scenario basically screams "deal the most amount of damage you can and gtfo". Not.. hang around as long as possible so you can get more sustained dps over a prolonged period of time. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
170
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 16:42:23 -
[15] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Cause you can easily solo the entire gang and kill them all?
Not with RLML. It's a skirmish and disengagement platform, if you need to fire more than one reload you should use heavies or assault missiles. |
Valkin Mordirc
875
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 17:09:19 -
[16] - Quote
Xaneth wrote:Belthazor4011 wrote:Xaneth wrote:Hey all,
Thinking of picking up a Cerberus and using RLMLs on it.
Does anyone know if the 35s reload time is included in DPS calculations you find in fitting tools like EFT?
Thanks. Depends if in the preferences you've selected the Include relead time for DPS option I think its off by default Thanks. I've been using an android app called Eve Droid. It doesn't have that option so the RLML Cerb was looking pretty good lol When I fired up EFT on my PC I found the option you mentioned. Now the RLML Cerb is looking less great heh Thanks for the tip
The RLML Cerb is actually pretty good when you use it for it's intended purpose.
The XL-ASB version of it laughs at Frig/DessieAF gangs, and then it calls their mothers fat.
#DeleteTheWeak
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
272
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 20:57:52 -
[17] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote::/
Way to miss the point.
Say im fighting a reasonable gang of 2 ac ruptures, 1 dragoon, 1 thrasher, 1 arbi, a moa and a maller. You unload all your volley into the 2 dessies and you enter reload - a malediciton lands - it heats for you, scrams you/webs you. In the 30+ seconds it takes to kill it the rest of the fleet has cought up to you and you are a dead cerb.
If you only shot half your missiles, male lands - burns for you, gets ripped appart because 300dps is still a lot vs them and you can easily solo the entire fleet.
The same holds true for 2-3 people more, if any tackle lands while you are in reload you are dead. With 10people, as said you have dedicated anti frig ships (cause cerbs can fit that role, but they arent the best at it) and it doesnt really matter. in what world would you require all 20 volleys in a cerb to kill T1 destroyers?
Its an example (and if they have links + a buffer tank you could actually be forced to enter reload).
Also, if all you want to do is kill tackle and then warp away fly a ranis or a confessor, if you fly a ship like the cerb or the orhrus and you dont go for the whole gang you are vastly underusing your ship.
Lastly, 35 seconds of 300dps and 35 seconds of 0 dps or 70 seconds of 150 dps is the same overall. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
170
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 21:08:06 -
[18] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote::/
Way to miss the point.
Say im fighting a reasonable gang of 2 ac ruptures, 1 dragoon, 1 thrasher, 1 arbi, a moa and a maller. You unload all your volley into the 2 dessies and you enter reload - a malediciton lands - it heats for you, scrams you/webs you. In the 30+ seconds it takes to kill it the rest of the fleet has cought up to you and you are a dead cerb.
If you only shot half your missiles, male lands - burns for you, gets ripped appart because 300dps is still a lot vs them and you can easily solo the entire fleet.
The same holds true for 2-3 people more, if any tackle lands while you are in reload you are dead. With 10people, as said you have dedicated anti frig ships (cause cerbs can fit that role, but they arent the best at it) and it doesnt really matter. in what world would you require all 20 volleys in a cerb to kill T1 destroyers? Its an example (and if they have links + a buffer tank you could actually be forced to enter reload). Also, if all you want to do is kill tackle and then warp away fly a ranis or a confessor, if you fly a ship like the cerb or the orhrus and you dont go for the whole gang you are vastly underusing your ship. Lastly, 35 seconds of 300dps and 35 seconds of 0 dps or 70 seconds of 150 dps is the same overall.
300 DPS for 35 seconds is not the same as 150 DPS for 70 seconds. You may do the same total damage, but eliminating your target(s) sooner is always better than letting them shoot you more or keep you tackled for longer.
You don't get RLML. You don't understand their purpose, it's a front loaded damage system but you are trying to use it like regular missiles systems. It's not. If you can't kill your target in one full load of ammo you shouldn't be using RLML.
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Valkin Mordirc
881
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 21:17:06 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:Lastly, 35 seconds of 300dps and 35 seconds of 0 dps or 70 seconds of 150 dps is the same overall.
And what if the tank is local? Most small gangs running with out logi are going to locally tanked. Sooooo, then ungroup and trying to do sustained DPS with RLML is silly. =\
#DeleteTheWeak
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
273
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 22:59:18 -
[20] - Quote
Aerie Evingod wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote::/
Way to miss the point.
Say im fighting a reasonable gang of 2 ac ruptures, 1 dragoon, 1 thrasher, 1 arbi, a moa and a maller. You unload all your volley into the 2 dessies and you enter reload - a malediciton lands - it heats for you, scrams you/webs you. In the 30+ seconds it takes to kill it the rest of the fleet has cought up to you and you are a dead cerb.
If you only shot half your missiles, male lands - burns for you, gets ripped appart because 300dps is still a lot vs them and you can easily solo the entire fleet.
The same holds true for 2-3 people more, if any tackle lands while you are in reload you are dead. With 10people, as said you have dedicated anti frig ships (cause cerbs can fit that role, but they arent the best at it) and it doesnt really matter. in what world would you require all 20 volleys in a cerb to kill T1 destroyers? Its an example (and if they have links + a buffer tank you could actually be forced to enter reload). Also, if all you want to do is kill tackle and then warp away fly a ranis or a confessor, if you fly a ship like the cerb or the orhrus and you dont go for the whole gang you are vastly underusing your ship. Lastly, 35 seconds of 300dps and 35 seconds of 0 dps or 70 seconds of 150 dps is the same overall. 300 DPS for 35 seconds is not the same as 150 DPS for 70 seconds. You may do the same total damage, but eliminating your target(s) sooner is always better than letting them shoot you more or keep you tackled for longer. You don't get RLML. You don't understand their purpose, it's a front loaded damage system but you are trying to use it like regular missiles systems. It's not. If you can't kill your target in one full load of ammo you shouldn't be using RLML.
Nope, the issue is all other medium sized missile systems suck, so rlmls are all that is left. |
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1155
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 23:26:42 -
[21] - Quote
I don't think you've ever met a HAM legion or sacrilege then. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
273
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 23:37:45 -
[22] - Quote
Last time you successfully kited a gang with fast ships in a ham legion or a sacrilege? |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
171
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 05:08:56 -
[23] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Last time you successfully kited a gang with fast ships in a ham legion or a sacrilege?
You claim medium size missiles suck, someone gives you two very strong medium missile ships and you change the goal posts. People give you reasonable and practice uses for RLML and you complain because they have a drawback. We get it, you want an 'I Win' missile systems that has the DPS of HAMs, range of heavies and application of lights. If you're not willing to work within the limits of a certain system either stop doing it or expect failure. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
123
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Posted - 2015.04.20 05:17:37 -
[24] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Last time you successfully kited a gang with fast ships in a ham legion or a sacrilege?
The last time I fitted a 100mn afterburner and hit the overheat button...
Dude, you are just bad at pvp, that is all. Someone could have saved me a lot of reading. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
273
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:36:11 -
[25] - Quote
Yeah, im totally bad at pvp and you kited a gang in a ship with no range bonus with hams at a 30km paper range... .
Also, for kiting all missiles bar rlmls suck on cruiser size, and hams are exactly great even though they do have a niche. |
Valkin Mordirc
887
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:15:11 -
[26] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Yeah, im totally bad at pvp and you kited a gang in a ship with no range bonus with hams at a 30km paper range... .
Also, for kiting all missiles bar rlmls suck on cruiser size, and hams are exactly great even though they do have a niche.
Um... Orthrus?
#DeleteTheWeak
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
273
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:16:18 -
[27] - Quote
What? You want to tell me the hml or ham orthrus is better then the rlml one? Or what is your point? |
Valkin Mordirc
887
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:20:54 -
[28] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:What? You want to tell me the hml or ham orthrus is better then the rlml one? Or what is your point?
You said that kiting sized cruiser can't do well without RLML
The Orthrus/Tengu say no, **** you.
You know instead of treating this like a argument why don't you just LISTEN, and you would actually hear that there are cruiser size ships that do well with HAM's and HML's.
And no I'm not saying better. I'm saying that the orthrus does well with all three weapons systems.
#DeleteTheWeak
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
273
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:23:16 -
[29] - Quote
Not really, theres a reason tengus are dying out and any non rlml orthrus is considered a faitfit. |
Valkin Mordirc
887
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:28:26 -
[30] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Not really, theres a reason tengus are dying out and any non rlml orthrus is considered a faitfit.
If Tengu's have any reason for dying out it's because of the Hybrid nerf and the defensive subsystem nerf. I havn't been in one in a little while, but long enough to know that a HAM 100mn Tengu or the HML Tengu does perfectly well. Now, I dunno about now. Haven't bothered to fly on since the nerf.
As for the Orthrus. A good solo ship yeah, probably going to be RLML fitted. However, you can still get a good fit with both HML and HAM's. You can easily kite with a HAM Orthrus with a defensive scram. And it's so quick that it can easily hold a target inside point range and plink at it with HLM's.
HAM's are niche your right. But they are just as niched as the RLML.
#DeleteTheWeak
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