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Seiji Hannah
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:57:00 -
[1]
I think not, they are overcomplex addition to a system that needs tweaking and balancing more than anything, i suggest a different aproach to this : Uppgrades - there are skills for each in the game already all that is needed is to move them from fittings to a seperate system that permenantly modifies a ship, for instance a Ferox would have 2 shield upgrade slots, 2 energy grid upgrades, 2 electronic upgrades (EWar) and 2 Ballistic upgrades, in addition to fitting slots.
Suggested Tweaks : Hull Uppgrades - Damage Control needs a serious tweaking if it is a permanent modifier - a percentage CPU penalty, a percentage grid penalty, structure hp penalty and a percentage Capacitor penalty.
Energy Grid Uppgrades - Power Diagnostic System is in need of a CPU and Grid percentage penalty
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Seiji Hannah
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:57:00 -
[2]
I think not, they are overcomplex addition to a system that needs tweaking and balancing more than anything, i suggest a different aproach to this : Uppgrades - there are skills for each in the game already all that is needed is to move them from fittings to a seperate system that permenantly modifies a ship, for instance a Ferox would have 2 shield upgrade slots, 2 energy grid upgrades, 2 electronic upgrades (EWar) and 2 Ballistic upgrades, in addition to fitting slots.
Suggested Tweaks : Hull Uppgrades - Damage Control needs a serious tweaking if it is a permanent modifier - a percentage CPU penalty, a percentage grid penalty, structure hp penalty and a percentage Capacitor penalty.
Energy Grid Uppgrades - Power Diagnostic System is in need of a CPU and Grid percentage penalty
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foolers
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Posted - 2006.10.28 04:07:00 -
[3]
A. you complain the current system is too complicated. Yet, your proposed alternative is more complicated.
B. WIth a limited number of slots, and a large variety of "good" options for rigs, there will be more different selections. Ships will actually become somewhat personalized as a result. Gone are the days when you could predict with 90% certainty what a given ship would have equiped based only on its hull.
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Seiji Hannah
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Posted - 2006.10.28 16:03:00 -
[4]
Uppgrades instead of Rigs does not spell - predictable fittings, in fact there is no difference between the two systems, except one is using existing skills, modules and statistics and the other introduces a new system which is dependant on industry - this means the Rigs will be priced alot higher than they are actually worth.
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Shinca
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Posted - 2006.10.28 16:30:00 -
[5]
yes, rigs are a really good idea IMO
there's nothing complicated about rigs - just a couple of slots you fill with some modules, only you can't remove the modules once you insert them, like implants
think of rigs as hardwiring implants only for ships
clones are people two
Slovenian EVE forum |
Antioch Wolfwood
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Posted - 2006.10.28 16:38:00 -
[6]
RIGS ftw! you guys make it sound like EVERYONE and their grandma can instantly buy all the rigs they need in Tranq. first off its gonna be like implants. You cant guess what ship bonuses are there when you attack some1 on trang. hell you can wonder to yourself why a t1 cruiser lasted 10 seconds longer vs you t2 HAC cause the guy had a full slave/crystal implants set (if he did i dont noe y he would even be in a t1 cruiser, so bare with me here). Rigs wont make your ship SUPER ok...the ones that will will cost an arm and a leg. Plus the fact that rigs come with penalties means your skills involved. Just like in RL some ppl will have the money to sup'ed up their car and MOST will not. it will be the same on Tranq cause MOST will have REGULAR SHIP SETUPS and the occasional few will have SUP'ED UP KILLMOBLIES. NOT EVERYONE GONNA BE INVINCIBLE!!
Rigs give ppl something to look foward to. just like how your saving money for that new carbon fiber hood ppl now have something to save their isk for to pimp their ride.
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Monica Foulkes
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2006.10.28 16:38:00 -
[7]
Rigs are great, finally a proper income source from PvP when you can sell the salvaged materials for good money hopefully. Not to mention the amazing mix and match of setups you can do now.
The 8h skill buffer |
Seiji Hannah
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Posted - 2006.10.28 17:08:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Seiji Hannah on 28/10/2006 17:09:11 Rigs are really uppgrades, however they are suppoused to be using a new system which is totally unnececery since there already is one in place with complementing skills and modules - these modules do not make sense as fittings, how would it be possible to apply a 1600mm armour plate to a ship, and then caasually remove it ? The whole idea of uppgrades is to restrict these unrealistic bonuses some of which could as easily be called exploits - such as 5x Diagnostic System modules on a Raven that give it shield + grid + cap + cap regen and are fitted into slots not normally used by Caldari.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.28 19:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Seiji Hannah Edited by: Seiji Hannah on 28/10/2006 17:17:16 Edited by: Seiji Hannah on 28/10/2006 17:09:11 Rigs are really uppgrades, however they are suppoused to be using a new system which is totally unnececery since there already is one in place with complementing skills and modules - these modules do not make sense as fittings, how would it be possible to apply a 1600mm armour plate to a ship, and then caasually remove it ? The whole idea of uppgrades is to restrict these unrealistic bonuses some of which could as easily be called exploits - such as 5x Diagnostic System modules on a Raven that give it shield + grid + cap + cap regen and are fitted into slots not normally used by Caldari.
This could easily be implemented the same way as Rigs - +1 Uppgrade slot per ship skill level and perhaps an additional uppgade slot for T2 ships
Hi Seiji =] Rigs are a good thing. Trust me.
Because I said so...
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2006.10.28 19:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Slash Harnet on 28/10/2006 19:58:24 A system where things are permenantly upgraded! Thats horrible and so complicated! I'm glad we don't have a system like that for characters
Seriously rigs are probably one of, if not the, best thing coming with Kali one.
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Seiji Hannah
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Posted - 2006.10.28 20:03:00 -
[11]
Ok, what i am proposing is this : move uppgrade fittings to Rigs category - with respective skill requirement like Hull uppgrades, Weapon uppgrades etc.. Currently there are planned new skills for rigs which would not be needed if this suggestion gains ground.
Example : Gallante Frigate lvl 5 would get you 5x rig/uppgrade slots where you can place (permanently) for instance a Micro Auxilary Core, Damage Control, or a Magnetic Field Stabilizer - these perticular modules do not make sense in their current category as fittings since they would require a complete reconfiguration of a ship.
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2006.10.28 20:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Seiji Hannah Ok, what i am proposing is this : move uppgrade fittings to Rigs category - with respective skill requirement like Hull uppgrades, Weapon uppgrades etc.. Currently there are planned new skills for rigs which would not be needed if this suggestion gains ground.
Example : Gallante Frigate lvl 5 would get you 5x rig/uppgrade slots where you can place (permanently) for instance a Micro Auxilary Core, Damage Control, or a Magnetic Field Stabilizer - these perticular modules do not make sense in their current category as fittings since they would require a complete reconfiguration of a ship.
5x slots on anything would be completely overpowered. Even if it was with existing modules. I'm not really sure why your so against rigs and feel the need for a (nearly identical) competing system. Unless your just trying to save yourself some training time that is
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Phrixus Zephyr
Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.10.28 20:35:00 -
[13]
Im sure they will be 'neat' but you do realise the whole system will be completly screw current ship to ship balence.
Oh and im REALLY looking forward to Snake-set/Speed rig Vaga's and Crow's. Wont that be fun............
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Seiji Hannah
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Posted - 2006.10.28 20:51:00 -
[14]
Training time is not the issue, this is about putting a new system on top of an old unfinished one, then compensating that new system with a HP increase - a clear indication that the Devs are regretting introduction of Rigs already, next will be a further nerf to Rigs statistics or availible slots.
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2006.10.28 21:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Im sure they will be 'neat' but you do realise the whole system will be completly screw current ship to ship balence.
Oh and im REALLY looking forward to Snake-set/Speed rig Vaga's and Crow's. Wont that be fun............
Ship to ship balance in it self is some what srewed way of thinking - this new system opens it up even more for the brain game. Its even more up to you how you deal death with your imaginative setups. You worry to much about vagas and crows. they go down as well as nything else. and if the pilot has 1.5 bil in he's head yeah those should make some difference mate. get real
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.28 21:32:00 -
[16]
rigs + combats boosters combined w/ the already in place implants etc...
kiss your cookie cutters goodbye.
say hello to 3 ships of the same model that are NOTHING like each other.
Predictability goes out the window.
"Is that battleship orbiting that frig?" "Why wont this thorax die?"
Its gonna be beautiful indeed
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: HankMurphy
rigs + combats boosters combined w/ the already in place implants etc...
kiss your cookie cutters goodbye.
say hello to 3 ships of the same model that are NOTHING like each other.
Predictability goes out the window.
"Is that battleship orbiting that frig?" "Why wont this thorax die?"
Its gonna be beautiful indeed
Agreed. This allows for some personalization of your ship to suit your favorite fitting and/or tactics.
Lots of left over grid on a turret ship? Grab a turret rig and ditch the excess grid to deal more damage, or give those long range guns the additional tracking you feel they deserve.
Tired of limping about in that raven at pathetic speed? sacrifice some meaningless armor and rig for speed and agility.
Alot of the whining that goes on can be fixed with small changes to a ship that not everyone would want. Rigs give you the opportunity to tweek the numbers a bit and create your personalized ideal.
I know it's common practice to assume the worst, but have a little faith that the rigs have been designed within the framework of how ships are currently balanced before crying foul. J.A.F.O.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.10.29 06:34:00 -
[18]
Why do rigs allow for more customization than slots do?
I mean, all it is is really three new slots for most ships. There will still be optimal rig setups and there will still be optimal ship slot/rig setups.
I mean, yea you can use rigs to fit different set ups, just like I can stick a whole bunch of shield extenders on a maller. That doesnt make it a good idea though, and it doesnt mean there are more optimized builds because of it.
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Shir'ia'ri
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Posted - 2006.10.29 06:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 29/10/2006 06:37:13 Why do rigs allow for more customization than slots do?
I mean, all it is is really three new slots for most ships. There will still be optimal rig setups and there will still be optimal ship slot/rig setups.
Yea, you can use rigs to fit different set ups, just like I can stick a whole bunch of shield extenders on a maller. That doesnt make it a good idea though, and it doesnt mean there are more optimized builds because of it.
But that's just it. It's *not* three more slots. It's like having one additional slot split up into two or three parts to make small tweeks on up to three different areas of your ship. They also have downsides. Other than a cpu cost, what is the downside of fitting a heatsink on that Maller? Nothing. If you want to increase damage output with a rig instead, you'll be giving up some grid to do it. It's a tradeoff, and it's permanent. It's a little bit like being able to play dev with your favorite ship and make the minor adjustments you've always thought that ship ought to have.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.10.29 07:11:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Goumindong on 29/10/2006 07:13:17
Originally by: Shir'ia'ri
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 29/10/2006 06:37:13 Why do rigs allow for more customization than slots do?
I mean, all it is is really three new slots for most ships. There will still be optimal rig setups and there will still be optimal ship slot/rig setups.
Yea, you can use rigs to fit different set ups, just like I can stick a whole bunch of shield extenders on a maller. That doesnt make it a good idea though, and it doesnt mean there are more optimized builds because of it.
But that's just it. It's *not* three more slots. It's like having one additional slot split up into two or three parts to make small tweeks on up to three different areas of your ship. They also have downsides. Other than a cpu cost, what is the downside of fitting a heatsink on that Maller? Nothing. If you want to increase damage output with a rig instead, you'll be giving up some grid to do it. It's a tradeoff, and it's permanent. It's a little bit like being able to play dev with your favorite ship and make the minor adjustments you've always thought that ship ought to have.
And this changes the fact that there will still be rig setups that out-perform other rig set-ups, and by extension "optimized rig" setups how?
Just like there are slot choices that are better for ships, optimal choices.
Sure, you cant change em, but that just means if you go multi-role you are doing it in a different ship, because an unrigged ship can no longer compete with a rigged ship for the role.
The downside to sticking a heat sink in a maller low slot is the CPU use and loss of the slot that I could have used for something else, the downside to fitting a warp core stabalizer in a low slot is CPU, Powergrid, 50% targeting range and 50% targeting speed.
The downside to fitting a gun rig is larger PG use, the loss of a rig slot and the loss of calibration. The downside to fitting a shield capacitor rig is larger sig sie, the loss of a rig slot and the loss of calibration.
There isnt much difference there, you simply cant remove one without destroying it and they used different slots.
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foolers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 08:26:00 -
[21]
Edited by: foolers on 29/10/2006 08:26:23
Quote: And this changes the fact that there will still be rig setups that out-perform other rig set-ups, and by extension "optimized rig" setups how?
Optimized how?
10% more damage for 5% grid on all weapons you intend to fit to that ship might be an easy decision on some ships, but not on others.
None of the modules are broad, or unbalanced enough that they will be 100% choices.
They wil vary not only from ship to ship, but from player to player.
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.10.29 10:28:00 -
[22]
I think rigs are a beutiful idea personally and i fully indorse them. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Llyando Autora
The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Llyando Autora on 29/10/2006 11:31:18 I first looked at rigs and couldnt understand the point.
Then I started to look at the modules and ideas satrted to form... OH GOD YES!!!!
Rigs dont do the same jobs as upgrades, but they do allow more customisation of each ship, if only because there is another dimension to consider when fitting/analysing a ship.
Now to try to connect to the server and have a play...
EDIT::
Quote: I think not, they are overcomplex addition to a system
The complexity is the thing that I love about eve. It is not simple or predictable. Something less predictable is always good in my opinion.
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Amaron Ghant
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:37:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Amaron Ghant on 29/10/2006 11:38:31 I for one am REALLY looking forward to rigs.
This is MY ship. It looks like every other ship of it¦s type, but it¦s NOT. It¦s Different
A question though.
If I repackage the ship for sale, what happens to the rig(s) Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!!
Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner |
swoj
The New Order.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:28:00 -
[25]
If you repackage your ship, the rigs are destroyed.
Rigs do look like a great addition to the game, allow players to either take their specialization even further, or to use them to cover up a weakness in your setup
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.10.29 16:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: foolers Edited by: foolers on 29/10/2006 08:26:23
Quote: And this changes the fact that there will still be rig setups that out-perform other rig set-ups, and by extension "optimized rig" setups how?
Optimized how?
10% more damage for 5% grid on all weapons you intend to fit to that ship might be an easy decision on some ships, but not on others.
None of the modules are broad, or unbalanced enough that they will be 100% choices.
They wil vary not only from ship to ship, but from player to player.
Just as its not always a good idea to fit pulse lasers on every ship you fly, it is not always a good idea to fit gun rigs on every ship you fly. There may not be 100% choices, but that does not mean that there will not be optimal setups.
How many possibilities are there to setup your ship to do a job? thousands, at the least.
How many setups get reccomended for each role? Two or Three, maybe.
Rigs arent nessesarily bad, but the idea that they will make the game wildly more diverse is just flat out wrong, they dont change the single underlying mechanics of the game.
1. Do Damage 2. Dont Take Damage 3. Make the best ship to achieve 1 or 2, or 1 and 2.
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Rafaello Cruel
Gallente Rave Technologies Inc. Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:52:00 -
[27]
question was: are rigs really a good idea ?
answer is: yes! ------------------------------------- best regards Rafaello Cruel
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