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Carter Chesterforce
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:09:57 -
[1] - Quote
Hello.
I'm coming over from WASD MMOs and the ship controls in EVE have me a little frustrated.
I was able to kill the ships in the first set of tutorials by locking onto the red ships, using the radial menu and choosing approach, and then clicking on my weapons to fire and destroy the enemy.
That worked. And I took little damage. But, my ship always seemed to be facing one way. While my turrets were firing on the enemy directionally behind me or to the left or right. I never even got a good look at the attacking vessel.
Is that the way most engagements go in this game?
Or is there a way to control the ship movement directly using the keyboard that I'm just too dumb to figure out? A way that you can keep the enemy in front of you and kind of dogfight with them.
Thanks in advance.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
251
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:22:50 -
[2] - Quote
First, you actually can WASD your ship by binding keys to the movement, BUT this is not the standard playstyle of EvE. In EvE you command your ship instead of flying head-on, you tell your ship to stay at range, orbit, approach or fly in a specific direction by clicking in space ... fights are usually done zoomed out with and tactical overlay activated. EvE is more strategy game than flight simulator.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Paranoid Loyd
4649
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:23:38 -
[3] - Quote
Manual Flight is acheived by double clicking in the direction you want your ship to move. Chessur is a great manual flyer. Study his videos, here is an example.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1146
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:24:06 -
[4] - Quote
you can "look at" items in space after selecting them. Easiest way to select something is by using your overview rather than trying to click something flying 500m/s around your head. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2106
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:33:39 -
[5] - Quote
Sitting still is rarely the optimal thing to do. Particularly so when players are involved. |
Memphis Baas
296
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:46:27 -
[6] - Quote
This is not a dogfighting game, this is more like a naval battle where the ships have turrets. Smallest ship is a frigate, not a (dog)fighter.
That said, what we typically do is target-lock things by ctrl-clicking them from the overview, then setting orbit (because you want to orbit enemies so their guns can't track you well), and then rotating the camera and looking in the correct direction with the mouse. But really, we're more likely to look at the target icon, to see when its shields, armor, and hull are gone, so we can switch to the next target.
There's a tactical overlay that gives you a bubble of ranges to your targets, but you can pretty much assume that your guns will hit based on computed trajectories, and trying to dogfight doesn't really do much. It's more important to maintain the optimal range for your guns, and to maximize transversal velocities by orbiting or NOT flying AT your target.
Frigates are agile and fast enough that you can reduce the damage that you take quite a bit by either a. staying out of range or b. orbiting very fast and very close (with afterburners), but typically by the time you get to the much slower (and bigger) cruisers and battleships, it's more about the armor or shields that you have than about trying to dodge anything. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4793
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:37:28 -
[7] - Quote
Agony Unleashed Tutorial: Tracking and Spiraling (video)
Worth watching even if you only use missiles. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
6052
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:53:04 -
[8] - Quote
In EVE you are Kirk not Sulu.
You are Janeway not Paris.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
481
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Posted - 2015.04.13 20:27:12 -
[9] - Quote
I'm not a PvPer I only PvE but I am typically zoomed out so far that I can't even see what ship that I'm in. Everything to me is red crosses. I fly by my overlay and focus more on distances and transversal and such.
That being said when I've seen PvP videos the pilots are often doing a "look at" of opponents in the enemy fleet trying to determine what they are flying and how they have it fit based on various visual effects and the look of the turrets or missile bays etc.. They are also very busy checking D scan and sometimes intel and fleet chat channels to see who is coming to join the fight.
While Eve is not a first person flight sim / dog fight kind of game that does not mean that combat is slow. Maybe there are better pilots than me out there but from what I've seen there are so many things that you can potentially be doing in a combat situation that success most likely often is determined by who can multitask better or who has better situational awareness.
I'm sure one of the many PvPers that frequent this section of the forum can comment better than myself but when I introduce this game to other people I often get the comment "so I just hit orbit and then fire and wait until it's over?". I then have to explain that if you don't understand all the complexities of the game and have no clue what is going on nor how to gain contextual information then yes. However once you learn more about the game then no, and coincidentally or not the more that you understand what is going on the the mentally busier that fighting gets for you I'm assuming the more likely your chances to win are.
All this does not even touch on all the meta gaming going on and using game mechanics and timers to split up enemy fleets and such.
TL;dr If you think eve combat is slow or dull then that is likely because you don't know what is going on. Learn the context and things will get much more interesting. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
252
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:04:05 -
[10] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:
TL;dr If you think eve combat is slow or dull then that is likely because you don't know what is going on. Learn the context and things will get much more interesting.
This impression imo comes partly from the tutorial and killing NPC rats. Because rats are dumb and just there to be farmed for ISK, it's usually easy to beat them even if your are not a perfect pilot and doing mistakes is not your immediate death. When you fight against another capsuleer expect him to use all mechanics and skills to win the fight and manually setting direction and speed to counter your commands is part of it. It's difficult to explain how complex and intense this game can be, just with words ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Carter Chesterforce
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:03:40 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks to everyone for their responses. Its appreciated.
I feel like I need to print out this thread and study it. LOL. Which I'll probably do.
You've certainly given me a lot to think over.
But I'm not going to sress over it all.
For now.
See ya in-game. |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
569
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Posted - 2015.04.14 03:35:40 -
[12] - Quote
Another thing to keep in mind on the "you're not the pilot, you're the command staff" is that the game's design intentionally leaves in some lag between you entering a command and the server interpreting it.
So you're shouting "five degrees Port" or whatever and it'll take a second or sometimes two for your chained-up slave crew* to actually start turning the ship. Same with drones, often the AI will have already selected a new target and started flying them off before they get your command you entered to attack something else entirely.
*note that capsuleers are pretty much evil by definition, or amoral and don't value human life at minimum |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
483
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote: *note that capsuleers are pretty much evil by definition, or amoral and don't value human life at minimum
I realize that you are only a little more than a year younger than me but when I started playing Eve it was very clear lore wise that you were the only living being on the ship. Your pod was filled with fluid and the connections on your spine are where you would connect to the ship. There is an old video somewhere of a capsuleer getting out of his or her pod and the pod fluid pouring out all over the place.
As far as I can recall that remained unchanged until captain's quarters where we suddenly could leave our ship and be in station dry and clothed. Then more recently they started issuing news reports about lost crew members when capital ships blew up.
I'm just pointing out that what you say here was not always the case.
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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
572
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:59:47 -
[14] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:[quote=Lost Greybeard]I realize that you are only a little more than a year younger than me but when I started playing Eve it was very clear lore wise that you were the only living being on the ship.
Actually, like half the lore was about the poor bastards manning the guns and so on that we were continually screwing over when I signed on.
It's 99% of why the SoE hate capsuleers on general principle, we think very little of losing ships because we're infomorphs rather than physical beings in ourselves, but even the frigates blowing up are a minimum of a couple dozen mortal crewmen a pop (hell, the process of creating us alone murders the one person we used to be). Here's an old thread discussing some of the specifics. It's been defined and developed to the point that there are some weirdly specific stats on the matter because the devs were tired of being asked.
The SoE epic arc is full of references to this (e.g. "A lot of money" is a joke about us being able to wreck planetary stock exchanges with our pocket change), and it got kinda ratcheted up to 11 at the point where they stopped doing lore, because of the obvious implications of planetary interaction.
There are also a lot of wink-nudges about the more "advanced" versions of our civilizations having driven mortals entirely to _extinction_, the sleepers with Eclipse Phase style forced uploading, the Jove by simple genocide (all surviving Jove are capsuleers, or rather what capsuleers are capable of becoming eventually), and the Sansha by capsuleers stealing and driving other people's bodies. One of the primary characteristics of the Jove being "more advanced", in fact, is that their ships aren't crewed the way ours are. The implication being that the Jove giving us Capsuleer tech was likely the first step in our own extinction event, obviously.
EDIT: We're in the pods so that we can replace the command staff and bail out in combat situations, in the lore the crew have more normal escape pods but mostly have to scramble around to access things for maintenance. The Amarr also double-down and use ships crewed by slaves for the Evulz. As mentioned this all precedes the original addition of the SoE epic at minimum. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
488
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Posted - 2015.04.16 00:19:51 -
[15] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:[quote=Lost Greybeard]I realize that you are only a little more than a year younger than me but when I started playing Eve it was very clear lore wise that you were the only living being on the ship. Actually, like half the lore was about the poor bastards manning the guns and so on that we were continually screwing over when I signed on. It's 99% of why the SoE hate capsuleers on general principle, we think very little of losing ships because we're infomorphs rather than physical beings in ourselves, but even the frigates blowing up are a minimum of a couple dozen mortal crewmen a pop (hell, the process of creating us alone murders the one person we used to be). Here's an old thread discussing some of the specifics. It's been defined and developed to the point that there are some weirdly specific stats on the matter because the devs were tired of being asked. The SoE epic arc is full of references to this (e.g. "A lot of money" is a joke about us being able to wreck planetary stock exchanges with our pocket change), and it got kinda ratcheted up to 11 at the point where they stopped doing lore, because of the obvious implications of planetary interaction. There are also a lot of wink-nudges about the more "advanced" versions of our civilizations having driven mortals entirely to _extinction_, the sleepers with Eclipse Phase style forced uploading, the Jove by simple genocide (all surviving Jove are capsuleers, or rather what capsuleers are capable of becoming eventually), and the Sansha by capsuleers stealing and driving other people's bodies. One of the primary characteristics of the Jove being "more advanced", in fact, is that their ships aren't crewed the way ours are. The implication being that the Jove giving us Capsuleer tech was likely the first step in our own extinction event, obviously. EDIT: We're in the pods so that we can replace the command staff and bail out in combat situations, in the lore the crew have more normal escape pods but mostly have to scramble around to access things for maintenance. The Amarr also double-down and use ships crewed by slaves for the Evulz. As mentioned this all precedes the original addition of the SoE epic at minimum. Thank you for this. This is some interesting information that is new to me. Maybe I should follow the lore more.
I started playing Eve the day before wormholes and I believe the SoE epic arc were released. The vets back then were telling me that we were the only person in our ship at that time. I recall when I finally got around to doing the SoE arc ( about a month or two later) that some of the references in it to crew members being controversial. I have not done that arc in years. I should go back and run it again. |
Memphis Baas
303
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Posted - 2015.04.16 01:29:39 -
[16] - Quote
Actually, I might be wrong, but I think the lore stories say that:
- a capsuleer can replace a dozen or more crew members because of the faster controls afforded by direct-to-brain links
- capsule frigates have 0-2 crew members, bigger ships have more, but still skeleton crews compared to ships that are captained the old fashioned way
So we're reducing per-ship casualties, but because we're so fight-crazy, a lot more ships die, resulting in more deaths overall. Not that the 4 empires would be peaceful in our absence.
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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
575
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Posted - 2015.04.16 05:24:21 -
[17] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Actually, I might be wrong, but I think the lore stories say that:
- a capsuleer can replace a dozen or more crew members because of the faster controls afforded by direct-to-brain links
- capsule frigates have 0-2 crew members, bigger ships have more, but still skeleton crews compared to ships that are captained the old fashioned way
So we're reducing per-ship casualties, but because we're so fight-crazy, a lot more ships die, resulting in more deaths overall. Not that the 4 empires would be peaceful in our absence.
Yeah, you can look at it that way if you want to feel a bit less like a villain.
Alternately, you could recall that the in-universe explanation for why we use crew instead of robots is that we HAVE to. Trying the other way gave us the rogue drones once the AI assist went past a certain threshold, and those guys just kind of exterminate everything and took over like 1/5 of known space.
At least so long as we are restricted to the use of actual humanoid clones, wherever we go we'll build environments that can support normal humans walking around at our bases, and the mortals can largely just do their thing in the stations and planets since we prefer messing around in space. |
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