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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1090
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Posted - 2015.04.15 10:44:11 -
[91] - Quote
Just caught up on this and I have to say I'm not really sure how much this will help other than transfer some of the balance of mining isk into big alliance coffers.
Miners tend to do so because they enjoy it/enjoy building stuff from their proceeds. They tend not to like combat hence avoiding it. The reasons behind this are simply not down to the ores available otherwise they would already be mining in null/WH's/losec.
These changes in all likelihood will not change the numbers mining, it'll just give null more minerals locally and increase the cost of high-ends in hisec thus nerfing production profitability there. Whether this is a good idea or not remains to be seen since the increased low-ends may mitigate some issues with jump fatigue for bulk importing.
With this change going ahead it may be an idea to add some of the most rare rocks in small amounts into hard to scan anomalies in hisec and losec for explorers to go find. Then some of the isk transfer is mitigated, production issues in nullsec are mitigated and new sites are added for explorers to find and exploit putting more pilots in space whilst rewarding actual effort more. |
Hicksimus
Xion Limited Resonance.
584
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Posted - 2015.04.15 10:46:05 -
[92] - Quote
I'd like to see nullsec have its hand held less by CCP. A real fix for nullsec mining is making it much harder to import materials.
Everybody gets stuck on trade hub values because you can stuff a huge quantity of minerals in a near-0 risk ship and nearly instantly have those minerals in your home sov. Give mining some real value. Things that make my idea great! Nullsec would actually need more than 10 null miners in a 1000+ person alliance. Highsec gets nerfed because null stops bulk ordering their minerals. We collect null tears because all of their mains and alts can only fly supercapitals and ishtars which are both only good at mining for the lols.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
166
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Posted - 2015.04.15 11:33:10 -
[93] - Quote
As expected, hisec mining is completely rekt. Thanks Mike, you've proven to be an armor fit laser drake of a CSM once again.
Now who has the biggest bot fleet wins eve mineral rush.
Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.
If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
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Cixi
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2015.04.15 11:51:54 -
[94] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:As expected, hisec mining is completely rekt. Thanks Mike, you've proven to be an armor fit laser drake of a CSM once again.
Now who has the biggest bot fleet wins eve mineral rush.
Minerals prices are already falling jita.
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Jagoff Haverford
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
145
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:10:56 -
[95] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: It also makes it much easier for players to decide what ore to mine if they find themselves in need of a specific mineral. No, it does not. You mine ALL the ore in the anomaly so you can get another anomaly. Please understand that. It has been distorting the mineral supply in the game for years. Null miners DO NOT get to choose what ore they mine, they are spoon fed what to mine by game mechanics. This may be the most crucial point in this thread, and I don't know that CCP has ever really come to grips with it. With the current anomaly mechanics, there are no "meaningful" choices to be made. Even if you are desperately in need of mexallon, you spend a huge chunk of time mining other things (such as the Giant Spodumain rock), just so you can kill the current anomaly and get a new one with the ores that you actually want. |
Jagoff Haverford
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
145
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:13:19 -
[96] - Quote
I know that I'm probably cheating a bit by posting a copy of what I just put up on Reddit, but:
One very interesting change here is Mexallon. It used to be very hard to get in null sec. The best ore for it (Plagioclase) simply didn't spawn in many null systems' regular belts, and there was a very limited amount of it in 0.0 anomalies. It was also widely available in high sec, and it was nearly impossible to avoid importing it if you wanted to build in 0.0.
With these changes, the best ore for Mexallon suddenly shifts to Gneiss. And not just by a little bit, either. On a per-cubic-meter basis, Gneiss out-performs Plagioclase by a whopping 57% in the production of Mexallon. For comparison, it currently produces 30% less Mexallon (per cubic meter or ore) than Plagioclase.
Null also overtakes high sec in having sole access to the best-performing sources of Isogen (now Dark Ochre, where it used to be Omber) and Nocxium (now Crokite, where it used to be a very close race between Hemorphite and Jaspet). Null sec also becomes the sole source of all Zydrine (mostly in Bistot) and Megacyte (mostly in Arkonor) in the entire game. This was largely true before, although there was a token amount of Zydrine in low sec Jaspet, Hemorphite, and Hedbergitie (as if anyone was mining there).
Basically, high sec's advantages will now be limited entirely to Tritanium (Veldspar is still the best source) and Pyerite (Scordite). The high sec advantage for Tritanium has shrunk a bit. Veldspar used to be 69% better than Spodumain in terms of Tritanium production (again, on a per-cubic-meter basis), but now it will be just 19% better.
Oddly enough, the high sec advantage for Pyerite actually increases with these changes. Scordite used to be just 11% better than Bistot in producing Pyerite. Under the new system, Scordite will best it's next-nearest competitor -- Spodumain, followed closely by Bistot -- by 53%. In this case, however, there will still be plenty of Scordite available in all regular belts throughout null sec, and the amount that will come from the anomaly-provided Spodumain and Bistot will likely be sufficient for most manufacturing.
In short, a pretty big nerf to the isk/hour of high sec mining, especially in the regions where Plagioclase is widely available. |
Hoogen Blaaghen
Iaccurate Declaration Of Taxable Income
0
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:23:13 -
[97] - Quote
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rod0ipDyfrzFYIQ5_RxVWylKuhyPzJChyPrvAQbK61s/edit#gid=0
Shows the change in ore value with these changes. |
Sturmwolke
639
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:24:20 -
[98] - Quote
Mineral market showed a massive abnormal volume spike for Zydrine and Megacyte starting Apr 1st in Jita/Amarr. If this change is posted on the 14th and had not been leaked through any other means (i.e Twitter etc.) 2 weeks EARLIER, then you may want to check where that leak is with IA. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5153
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:26:06 -
[99] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:Null also overtakes high sec in having sole access to the best-performing sources of Isogen (now Dark Ochre, where it used to be Omber)
Not that anyone ever mined omber, as it has, /by far/ the lowest isk/m3 of any ore.
Currently 193 isk/m3, compared to the next lowest of Veld at 238 (atm. Prices have adjusted. But these are from the mineral prices, at 100% refine)
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1576
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:31:10 -
[100] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Mineral market showed a massive abnormal volume spike for Zydrine and Megacyte starting Apr 1st in Jita/Amarr. If this change is posted on the 14th and had not been leaked through any other means (i.e Twitter etc.) 2 weeks EARLIER, then you may want to check where that leak is with IA. Mining changes were first announced during Fanfest, on March 19th. That's when I, personally, got in.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Shing Fun
Pink Fairy Club Iron Sky.
0
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:35:17 -
[101] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Mineral market showed a massive abnormal volume spike for Zydrine and Megacyte starting Apr 1st in Jita/Amarr. If this change is posted on the 14th and had not been leaked through any other means (i.e Twitter etc.) 2 weeks EARLIER, then you may want to check where that leak is with IA.
And in the Eve Online Show on the 1st April it was stated that in nearly every Bluprint the need amount of Zydrin /Megacyte will be doubled. Thats the Zydrin/Megacyte Spike you see. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
963
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:35:44 -
[102] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:CCP you should compensate highsec ore so our real income doesn't drop. As, usual you put not the slightest thought to "balancing" highsec ore or you just straight up don't care that you are transferring our ISK to the nullsec cartels.
Btw, what you should do is make lowsec ore more valuable and leave nullore where it is now. Lowsec is where the real challenge is in mining and according to your mantra of risk vs reward lowsec ore should be carrlying the highest premium in the game.
You do realise there goes a whole lot of groupwork into turning a certain system into *mineable* beforehand? In highsec, you chose system, travel there with an orca and start huffing rocks. In Lowsec, you can use one of those stations that are in about any system, no effort required. In sov-null, you got a whole bunch of people conquering the region, building or sorting infrastructure, because of how complex sov-null can be possibly so much more stuff you don't even see on first glimpse, that having more than just the same you could mine in comfort space is all but wrong. The organization that usually goes into nullsec mining should not only be more profitable potentially, but generally. The same way the best refining yield should only be avaiable to those who invest, the same should be the case with rocks themselves.
Currently, afk-mining in total security in highsec can be achieved by choosing a procurer. No one is ever going to bother. In nullsec currently, one of those miners in a wingwarp position atleast has to be watching local, cause if no one notices the neut in local for 15-20 seconds, one of your guys is tackled and a sabre about to land (fyi that's a ship that aoe-scrams your mining fleet, and warpstabs don't work), and if fortune aligns for the ceptor pilot and he got you spotted on the second or third dscan, even that might be to late for atleast one/two of your barges.
The resulting meta-gaming about nullmining in way-back systems and giant bubblebunkers is a ***** solution, but as much as I hate it I see it's useful and legit gameplay. Even here the investments made into securing your mining OP are obviously on a different level than parking your orca on a friendly station. |
Pokket Sez
Danneskjold Repossessions.
6
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:46:02 -
[103] - Quote
Please remove the upgraded versions of each ore (+5% and +10%), we just don't need 100 versions of the some ore. Its 2015! |
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
237
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:47:08 -
[104] - Quote
Now that lets get those Rorquals and Orcas back out on the field. For to long people have been able to start their ships behind pos shields, make an easily joinable fleet, and buff the fleet while they are off at work or school. Every 2-3 ships being boosted is an extra mining vessel worth of ore being harvested. All that extra generated ore is coming in while the booster isn't even home. Its similar to botting. This works the same for hisec players who have an Orca in an npc corp sitting at a station buffing everyone while they are gone. With the revamp and the higher isk coming in for null players, its time to choose to risk vs reward. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1576
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Posted - 2015.04.15 12:53:00 -
[105] - Quote
Cixi wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:As expected, hisec mining is completely rekt. Thanks Mike, you've proven to be an armor fit laser drake of a CSM once again.
Now who has the biggest bot fleet wins eve mineral rush. Minerals prices are already falling jita. I guess if you pointedly ignore zydrine and megacyte, this might be true.
FYI: The point of these changes is to boost highends and make lowends drop.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1577
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Posted - 2015.04.15 13:06:49 -
[106] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Miners tend to do so because they enjoy it/enjoy building stuff from their proceeds.
This assumption is dangerously weak. Profit is absolutely a major carrot for miners in all areas of space.
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: With this change going ahead it may be an idea to add some of the most rare rocks in small amounts into hard to scan anomalies in hisec and losec for explorers to go find. Then some of the isk transfer is mitigated, production issues in nullsec are mitigated and new sites are added for explorers to find and exploit putting more pilots in space whilst rewarding actual effort more.
These already exist; they are called wormholes.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1577
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Posted - 2015.04.15 13:12:20 -
[107] - Quote
Pokket Sez wrote:Please remove the upgraded versions of each ore (+5% and +10%), we just don't need 100 versions of the some ore. Its 2015! My idea for this was to make it so +5%/+10% variants, when compressed, output the +0% variant, but with +5%/+10% more of the +0% compressed variant output as a result.
However, there's some merit to the argument that compressed +5%/+10% variants allow for greater mineral compression, so this idea has little merit of its own. Oh well.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Dentia Caecus
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.04.15 13:17:59 -
[108] - Quote
I like the thrust of these changes; will you add just a touch more mex, please. |
Elana Apgar
DarkMatter-Industries Upholders
33
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Posted - 2015.04.15 13:26:15 -
[109] - Quote
Drone Plague wrote:Null mining will not be a thing until you make it possible. Currently an interceptor can be in system and in the belt/anoms in under 30 seconds. change them so that all belts/anoms need to be scanned down first.
Null mining will also not be viable until you fix the Rorqual. Currently, it is a useless capital as it not even any good for pos deployment anymore.
The interceptors are fine, anyone paying attention can get out of a belt before they get there.
HOWEVER
The special ore belts that we once had to scan down and are now anoms should go back to being scanned down. It adds a little cushion of safety for wormhole miners and null sec miners, and makes people work a little harder for their content/kills. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1332
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Posted - 2015.04.15 13:26:31 -
[110] - Quote
Pokket Sez wrote:Please remove the upgraded versions of each ore (+5% and +10%), we just don't need 100 versions of the some ore. Its 2015! Then don't mine the variations or only mine the variations. For all the other people who do mine them, especially in riskier areas of High sec, for instance, they are a a reasonable increase in reward for the slightly greater risk. Back in 2013, when I mined a bit as a solo, unboosted Mackinawer, I exclusively gathered the variations and made nice money from them while all the big Hulk-Orca hordes went for the bigger, richer normal roids. They usually concentrated on these rocks and I could mine alongside their fleets and we would not interfere with each other. That is a great benefit of the variations. There are all in all 48 ore variations and not hundreds. If you mine in Null sec, you are left with only 7 ores (21 variations) to mine in order to satisfy your needs. With all the tools available to take over calculation and estimation of mineral requirements for the production, it's not too hard of a task to coordinate miners accordingly.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
986
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Posted - 2015.04.15 13:39:22 -
[111] - Quote
Have you considered adding more minerals to T2 production? Currently it seems a bit odd that most of them just use morphite as a mineral and rely on the t1 mineral count.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1577
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:09:04 -
[112] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Have you considered adding more minerals to T2 production? Currently it seems a bit odd that most of them just use morphite as a mineral and rely on the t1 mineral count.
Most (if not all) T2 items have a T1 item as one of their ingredients, so the mineral cost is baked in already.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Eodp Ellecon
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
17
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:09:22 -
[113] - Quote
1. Please fix the skill tree for Mercoxit. As is, it is possible that you can refine it but not mine it, Or mine it poorly and not refine it. It is useful and sensible that an industrialist be able to refine without mining skills so that should remain down the line. Since access alone is an issue to certain rocks we could tiercide the skill requirements for T2 crystals of the higher value null ores (Reprocessing Efficiency V GÇô angry debate here we come).
The old scan-for-anoms was tedious for new players, and diffused a skill path of interest, taking even longer to gain access into this entry portion of EVE. Yes, new players mine in null sometimes and the tease of scanned anoms over belts was silly. Do not bring this back unless you have a 99% reduction scan reduction utility slot on all mining ships.
Miners tend to fall in three groups:
A) The Solo-multiboxer who is his own booster and fleet and doesnGÇÖt open up fleet to others. They eat all the rocks indiscriminately.
B) More rarely the AFK booster Fleet. Whereby people come and go through the day. Useful, casual, social. Tend to mine out anoms in null and belts in HS but is very system-centric.
C) The Solo miner due to location or time zone. DoesnGÇÖt get boosts which makes mining painful. These are the only people that do what Fozzie thinks peeps do regarding mining specific rocks for specific minerals. Preposterous proposal would be a GÇÿT3 minerGÇÖ that could mindlink boost solo or small fleets.
The compressed variants - +5 +10 - are at least useful to Trade for arbitrage disparities as well as focused import needs. Somewhat tedious but should remain at this point.
Today Crokite is the Zydrine producer and for some reason Bistot will become so (WHY the flip?). With the proposed anom volumes just between Crokite to Bistot, all but 1 proposed future Bistot volume is below current Crokite, is an additional reduction to Zydrine supply beyond the proposed BPO demand increase.
Couple of years ago buffs to Spod went into place to offset the Trit values added for new ship mass making a meh rock better over time. Jaspet is the new purposeless rock.
TY, Eo
Got as far as pg 3 at least.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1696
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:13:02 -
[114] - Quote
Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1577
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:20:45 -
[115] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs. This already happens. Ore prospecting sites spawn +5% variants from -0.45 to -0.849999 security status, and +10% variant sites spawn from -0.85 to -1.00.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1690
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:28:52 -
[116] - Quote
Querns wrote:sabre906 wrote:Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs. This already happens. Ore prospecting sites spawn +5% variants from -0.45 to -0.849999 security status, and +10% variant sites spawn from -0.85 to -1.00.
Those ratio should probably be greater than 5% and 10%. Then it might not sound so god damn awful to mine a veldspar rocks in null. You can keep a little bit of those more valuable rocks in HS if variation is important but they should have a much greater spawn rate in lower security space. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1577
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:30:37 -
[117] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Querns wrote:sabre906 wrote:Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs. This already happens. Ore prospecting sites spawn +5% variants from -0.45 to -0.849999 security status, and +10% variant sites spawn from -0.85 to -1.00. Those ratio should probably be greater than 5% and 10%. Then it might not sound so god damn awful to mine a veldspar rocks in null. You can keep a little bit of those more valuable rocks in HS if variation is important but they should have a much greater spawn rate in lower security space. Good thing they are removing veldspar rocks from ore prospecting sites (along with all other high/low ores.)
If you mine belts for any reason other than to cherry pick A/B/M or to bootstrap a new mining system, you're objectively Doing It Wrong.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1717
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:42:11 -
[118] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Mineral market showed a massive abnormal volume spike for Zydrine and Megacyte starting Apr 1st in Jita/Amarr. If this change is posted on the 14th and had not been leaked through any other means (i.e Twitter etc.) 2 weeks EARLIER, then you may want to check where that leak is with IA.
We started buying zyd/mega last year. OMG it must be LEAKS!
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1048
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Posted - 2015.04.15 14:45:31 -
[119] - Quote
Why Even Bother, the Gewbal Got There First |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1091
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Posted - 2015.04.15 15:05:23 -
[120] - Quote
Querns wrote: This assumption is dangerously weak. Profit is absolutely a major carrot for miners in all areas of space.
They do it for reasons other than pure profit as there are many better and much faster ways to make money than mining. They could make more isk mining in null right now under the blue doughnut yet they don't. They don't want to be in nullsec and won't be forced down there so the net result of moving isk from hisec to null will be lost subscriptions. The hisec players pay to play the game too yet we see improved yields in one area of space with the rare ores remaining unavailable in others. This won't encourage many more people to go mine in null as they simply don't want to be there otherwise they already would.
Querns wrote: These already exist; they are called wormholes.
[/quote] Which are fine for those with the time and real life commitments that allow them to do so, but many players in hisec stay there because they love the game but wouldn't have the time to commit to going into WH's. This would be a means of providing a limited supply of high-ends in a competitive setting. |
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