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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
T'Renn
Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.30 17:42:00 -
[61]
I have been station camped for three days trying to make a trip somewhere. In recent previous attempts I lost my first 2 (and only owned ever) megathrons to gatecamps - even after properly scouting. Apparently in one of them there was a covops ship at the gate on the other side of the system and when they saw me approaching to jump through they all logged on at once at the other side and the disruption field went up - making scouting pointless.
Yes they logged on to kill me. No I did not log off to avoid dying.
I abhor logoff tactics and people who use them. I have never used them and never will - even if I did lose 150 million in modules (and about 16 hours of game time procuring said modules) in one 24 hour period. Yes it aggravates me that I've owned two megathrons and never fired a shot with either, but to be honest that's part of the game. I don't need to cheat to win. Others like to cheat because a kill is a kill, but I prefer to get mine the old fashioned way.
I'll get to my destination eventually. I've got patience - something loggers don't have. People are free to live without honor in Eve - just do me a favor and don't call it tactics. -- Eh... 24k? I can't make a sig that doesn't suck and keep it under 24k. Oh well.
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Rayvonuk
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:32:00 -
[62]
/pledge
I find it funny that idiots such as Gavan blands dont actually understand why people have to do gatecamps. how are people suppose to protect their space ? some people eh
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Anfelina Adante
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:45:00 -
[63]
Never have and I pledge not to.
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Itaro Flagg
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:00:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Itaro Flagg on 30/10/2006 20:20:23
Originally by: James Lyrus "I, Itaro Flagg, do solemnly swear that I consider log in and log out to be separate from game mechanics.
I shall log off only when I am finished playing, and shall, as far as is possible, only do so when I am somewhere safe, in that it would be improbable that someone would accidentally find (and kill) me if I stayed logged in.
Given that I am logged off somewhere safe and convenient, I will therefore not use my logging on to create an ambush."
Boo logoff/login tactics
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:53:00 -
[65]
Pledged, signed, sealed.
And I also hope that CCP adjusts their rules and the mechanics of logoff/logon to make it more difficult to use as an exploit. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Veryl
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Rayvonuk
I find it funny that idiots such as Gavan blands dont actually understand why people have to do gatecamps. how are people suppose to protect their space ?
Why does everyone immediately equate "gate camps" with "defending space"? There are PLENTY of lame griefers that setup in Empire low-sec systems where defending space has nothing to do with their motivation.
They are just like little kiddies, dancing around on the sidewalk and stepping on ants and other bugs. Their only motivation is killing others, usually those who do not represent even the slightest challenge for them.
I can see both sides of the debate here, but get very tired of the automatic assumption that gate camps equate to defending territory. I think many of the posters here have been in 0.0 so long that they may have forgotten what it's like in Empire space.
I often read people saying "Eve is about risk" - it certainly is. But setting up with 3 battleships in a 0.4 system, next to a newbie starter system, or next to a system where people obtain level 2 missions is not assuming risk - it's cowardly behavior and nothing less.
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Nikolus Wrighte
Caldari JuBa Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:01:00 -
[67]
"I, Nikolus Wrighte, do solemnly swear that I consider log in and log out to be separate from game mechanics.
I shall log off only when I am finished playing, and shall, as far as is possible, only do so when I am somewhere safe, in that it would be improbable that someone would accidentally find (and kill) me if I stayed logged in.
Given that I am logged off somewhere safe and convenient, I will therefore not use my logging on to create an ambush."
what? So i used copy and paste. Moderators. sign my sig or the kitten gets it! |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:01:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Rayvonuk /pledge
I find it funny that idiots such as Gavan blands dont actually understand why people have to do gatecamps. how are people suppose to protect their space ? some people eh
Protect their space in .4? There is no "My space" in .4 friend...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:01:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Gaven Blands Edited by: Gaven Blands on 30/10/2006 13:25:02
Originally by: James Lyrus
If you leave a game of chess halfway through you forfeit.
This is common CAMPer rhetoric.
In chess, you have a go after your opponent, and you have to MOVE. Camping is no option. But thanks for the worthless comparison. It so NEARLY convinced me to jump into the nearest CAMP and offer myself as a sacrifice to the virgins.
Very nice man, I like. Although i don't usually log off, I think I will very much start to.
This is due to couple of recent events in low sec, where I have been ambushed by log on's after the initial intys have scrambled me. Unfortunately for them I had bombs and broke away. I still consider this a lame attack tactick to unbalance the odds to 7 vs 1. At least have the balls to be in local before attacking. Lame asses !
Oh yeah, so next time, I'll simply log off, much like they logged on on me. I think it's only fair!
As for the ganks.. it is plain stupid. Ganking in .3 with your -10 buddies,, aaahh uuuhhh we're uber.. we're the f-ing great. Well you're not. So next time when people simply pass through, they will eigher use a shuttle to scout you out or simply log off. There's really no reason to lose a 200mil ship as is there no honor of killing a ship in 4+v1 odds.
Apparently it is all about maximizing the profit in Eve, so.. so be it!
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:03:00 -
[70]
Originally by: T'Renn I have been station camped for three days trying to make a trip somewhere. In recent previous attempts I lost my first 2 (and only owned ever) megathrons to gatecamps - even after properly scouting. Apparently in one of them there was a covops ship at the gate on the other side of the system and when they saw me approaching to jump through they all logged on at once at the other side and the disruption field went up - making scouting pointless.
Yes they logged on to kill me. No I did not log off to avoid dying.
I abhor logoff tactics and people who use them. I have never used them and never will - even if I did lose 150 million in modules (and about 16 hours of game time procuring said modules) in one 24 hour period. Yes it aggravates me that I've owned two megathrons and never fired a shot with either, but to be honest that's part of the game. I don't need to cheat to win. Others like to cheat because a kill is a kill, but I prefer to get mine the old fashioned way.
I'll get to my destination eventually. I've got patience - something loggers don't have. People are free to live without honor in Eve - just do me a favor and don't call it tactics.
Well you apparently enjoy endless mining/missions/ratting/R&D-ing for no apparent reasons only to benefit other players. Probably this is fun for some. Not for me!
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Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Rayvonuk /pledge
I find it funny that idiots such as Gavan blands dont actually understand why people have to do gatecamps. how are people suppose to protect their space ? some people eh
Protect their space in .4? There is no "My space" in .4 friend...
Sure there is. Just like in 0.0... I've got the guns, so it's my space. You see anyone else with a gun? No? OK then. Who's going to argue? ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:05:00 -
[72]
In conclusion I will pledge for sure as I am doing up to now, the moment CCP prevent "wannabe pirates" from blogging people due to synchronized logons and logoffs when they see the fat end of the stick.
Then I will gladly revert to regular game mechanics!
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Rayvonuk /pledge
I find it funny that idiots such as Gavan blands dont actually understand why people have to do gatecamps. how are people suppose to protect their space ? some people eh
Protect their space in .4? There is no "My space" in .4 friend...
Sure there is. Just like in 0.0... I've got the guns, so it's my space. You see anyone else with a gun? No? OK then. Who's going to argue?
Dude, sure you can hold off a system for a day or two, maybe a week, that will be all. Eventually you'll be jumped by a 'slighly' more potent group of people, that will make you feel sorry you said it's 'your' system. In 0.0 it's not that simple!
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Novan Leon
Caldari Goat Raiders
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:22:00 -
[74]
I pledge I will not use logging as a game mechanic for avoiding conflict EXCEPT when jumping through a gate into another system.
If I'm cloaked and no other players are aware of my presence, I feel I have full authority to log-in and out as I see fit (until CCP provides an acceptable alternative).
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Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.31 01:14:00 -
[75]
I would rather lose all my in-game wealth in .3 seconds than log-out to save myself.
So I pledge that stuff in the Op too.
The joys of alliance warfare... |
ThaMa Gebir
Gallente Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2006.10.31 02:01:00 -
[76]
I ThaMa Gebir, do solemnly swear that I will follow the precedent put forth by fellow capsuleer James Lyrus. (ISS, Lyrus Associates).
Even in my usual setting of being completely outgunned and insanely outnumbered and death is the only certainty, I shall (in the appropriate channels) scream my RDEX Roughnecks war scream and pop in dignity and glory.
I will not go quietly into the night, rather shall re-group at the clonevats.
There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy
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ZEN ichiro
Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.31 02:10:00 -
[77]
/signed
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 09:01:00 -
[78]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 31/10/2006 09:01:49
Originally by: Novan Leon I pledge I will not use logging as a game mechanic for avoiding conflict EXCEPT when jumping through a gate into another system.
If I'm cloaked and no other players are aware of my presence, I feel I have full authority to log-in and out as I see fit (until CCP provides an acceptable alternative).
You'd log from gatecloak? Despite the fact that they've set a trap for you, and quite possibly had a scout in the previous system? Why exactly?
Or do you mean finding a safespot, cloaking there and then logging? That's actually less an issue IMO - they wouldn't be able to find you anyway.
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James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 09:15:00 -
[79]
The pledge is a good idea, but somehow I feel it would be more effective if it targeted corporations rather than individuals.
Since Coreli has a zero tolerance policy on loggin/logoff tactics already it doesn't cost me a lot to /signed. -----
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Frogzuk
Dragonian Freelancers
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:30:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Lo3d3R Edited by: Lo3d3R on 30/10/2006 15:13:18
solution: every corp/alliance member that logs in, in the same system within the same minute of the previous one to log in gets a minute delay of warping to last point when in space or undocking. This minute wait will add up to every new corp/alliance member that enters system within said minute.
so if 30 people log on at the same place at the same time, no. 14 will have to wait 13 minutes before he can do anything.
the 1 minute rule could also be 30 seconds or whatever, in any normal situation of loggin on and off this could in the worst case cause a small waiting periode, but hey like i said the factor doesnt have to be a minute. Or the stacking penalty only starts from 5 or more a the same time, the possibility's are endless.
so a stacking penalty for simeltanious logging on in the same system for corp/alliance members.
Thats one of the best ideas i have heard in a while and would solve the issue of ctd !
I sign the pledge too !
froggy |
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:35:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Hano 137 Better to go down fighting rather than this chicken livered running away nonsense. Nelson's last signal at Trafalgar was 'Engage The Enemy More Closely!' which is as good a motto as any. Ok so we lose a few ships here and there, but I'd rather keep my self respect.
Personally I prefer Patton's Quote: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - Attributed to General George Patton Jr
Now... I don't use logoff tactics. But telling people to 'fight no matter what' is just stupid.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:43:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ki An Alright, I must admit my failure to get through to you here. I give up. Continue being lame and maybe CCP will eventually solve this problem. The more open the problem gets, the sooner it should be fixed, so, thanks for that I guess.
/Ki
Just a point: I don't, and never will, use logoff tactics. That said please explain how it's "lame" to not want to engage in a suicidal fight? People don't enjoy being blown up. Much as you'd like them to. People don't enjoy spending hours refitting their ships/etc. (yes preparation can reduce that time but still).
Like I said... I've never dropped link or logged off. But I can certainly understand WHY people to it. Insulting him for it is just silly. He's no more lame than the group of 5-6 people who throw a bubble up for no reason other than to gank every unsuspecting newb that happens by. And usually they are in their 4xStabbed snipers outside the bubble so they can get away if any force strong enough happens to bounce in.
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Ki An
Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:09:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Ki An stuff
Just a point: I don't, and never will, use logoff tactics. That said please explain how it's "lame" to not want to engage in a suicidal fight? People don't enjoy being blown up. Much as you'd like them to. People don't enjoy spending hours refitting their ships/etc. (yes preparation can reduce that time but still).
Like I said... I've never dropped link or logged off. But I can certainly understand WHY people to it. Insulting him for it is just silly. He's no more lame than the group of 5-6 people who throw a bubble up for no reason other than to gank every unsuspecting newb that happens by. And usually they are in their 4xStabbed snipers outside the bubble so they can get away if any force strong enough happens to bounce in.
*Sighs* Well, if you don't understand why it is lame and cheating to log off when jumped, you'll probably not understand it after I've tried to explain to you anyway, but as I like slamming my head in brick walls, here goes.
It is not lame to not want to engage in a suicide fight. It is, however both lame and cheating to, when ambushed by prepared players, use an out-of-game mechanic to safe your pixels. That is disrespectful to the ambushers, to all users of EVE's market and to other people destroyed by gate-camps. The people in the camp has used in-game methods to catch you. You where not paying attention, and so you got caught.
I would agree with you that it is kind of stupid to engage a blob of enemies when heavily outnumbered, but then you would probably have a choice not to. In the case of logging out of bubbles, or when scouted out on a safe-spot or in a sniper-camp or whatever, you have already failed to avoid your enemy, and as such, they have won, and you take away their victory by logging. I hope you understand why I think this is lame.
/Disclaimer: In this post, instead of "the one who logs" I have put "you". I do not insinuate that YOU would log in combat.
/Ki
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:13:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Ki An stuff
Just a point: I don't, and never will, use logoff tactics. That said please explain how it's "lame" to not want to engage in a suicidal fight? People don't enjoy being blown up. Much as you'd like them to. People don't enjoy spending hours refitting their ships/etc. (yes preparation can reduce that time but still).
Like I said... I've never dropped link or logged off. But I can certainly understand WHY people to it. Insulting him for it is just silly. He's no more lame than the group of 5-6 people who throw a bubble up for no reason other than to gank every unsuspecting newb that happens by. And usually they are in their 4xStabbed snipers outside the bubble so they can get away if any force strong enough happens to bounce in.
*Sighs* Well, if you don't understand why it is lame and cheating to log off when jumped, you'll probably not understand it after I've tried to explain to you anyway, but as I like slamming my head in brick walls, here goes.
It is not lame to not want to engage in a suicide fight. It is, however both lame and cheating to, when ambushed by prepared players, use an out-of-game mechanic to safe your pixels. That is disrespectful to the ambushers, to all users of EVE's market and to other people destroyed by gate-camps. The people in the camp has used in-game methods to catch you. You where not paying attention, and so you got caught.
I would agree with you that it is kind of stupid to engage a blob of enemies when heavily outnumbered, but then you would probably have a choice not to. In the case of logging out of bubbles, or when scouted out on a safe-spot or in a sniper-camp or whatever, you have already failed to avoid your enemy, and as such, they have won, and you take away their victory by logging. I hope you understand why I think this is lame.
/Disclaimer: In this post, instead of "the one who logs" I have put "you". I do not insinuate that YOU would log in combat.
/Ki
I can buy off on that. But I still understand why people do it. Bottom line: Nothing you or I says is going to stop those who choose to log off from doing so. Onlly CCP can fix this by making bubbles prevent emergency warp. It's not like that can't be done. Scramblers already prevent it.
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Lubomir Penev
Gallente Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2006.10.31 14:14:00 -
[85]
Originally by: James Lyrus
nor notice the 'recent kills' on the map
Am I the only one finding the 'recent kills' taking a lot of time to update on the map? As an experiment take a system where no killing happened recently and blow a ship up. From my experience it can take as long as 20 minutes to update, time to get a hell lots of kill for a good camp.
Last time I died (podded, don't mind the ship losses ;-)), I was trying to make it to Outer Ring from Syndicate and stumbled on a camp in a system that looked clear on the map. But then maybe I was the first caught in it.
And about scouting, I don't think using a sacrificial lamb alt make sense from a roleplay point of view, not counting the logistics of quiting game logging to your alt etc, especially as the cluster does not always get you in immediately.
The whole emergency warpout, getting back ther on reconnection mechanism is inviting abuse anyway, people may log off less if login traps where not possible.
/me takes the pledge, but mostly because he's too busy looking for the best warpable object to think of logging out ;-)
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente CURSED LEGION OF DOOM Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.31 21:40:00 -
[86]
/pledge
The Best Thing I've ever seen in local chat [15:17:21] sotmassacer > can someone give me a big battleship for a while
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.31 22:06:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: James Lyrus
nor notice the 'recent kills' on the map
Am I the only one finding the 'recent kills' taking a lot of time to update on the map? As an experiment take a system where no killing happened recently and blow a ship up. From my experience it can take as long as 20 minutes to update, time to get a hell lots of kill for a good camp.
Last time I died (podded, don't mind the ship losses ;-)), I was trying to make it to Outer Ring from Syndicate and stumbled on a camp in a system that looked clear on the map. But then maybe I was the first caught in it.
And about scouting, I don't think using a sacrificial lamb alt make sense from a roleplay point of view, not counting the logistics of quiting game logging to your alt etc, especially as the cluster does not always get you in immediately.
The whole emergency warpout, getting back ther on reconnection mechanism is inviting abuse anyway, people may log off less if login traps where not possible.
/me takes the pledge, but mostly because he's too busy looking for the best warpable object to think of logging out ;-)
Precisely, when I am given a game that works off a 1sec or less lag, and updates real time, then I can be expected to fully utilize the tools in it.
Im my example, last time it took me to select a second target at a gate camp took me 25 sec. close to the time it took to get my ship blown up.
I guess lag counts also as a gate mechanic for the campers.. oh wait, the ambushers that I should respect.. ahahahahhaha.. i still can't get over that .. ahhahhahhahhahahhhh
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.10.31 22:17:00 -
[88]
I pledge that CCP should get it over with and just fix this ****.
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Beef Hardslab
AlphaHivE New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 22:29:00 -
[89]
I never have and never will log out to save my arse. I've been ganked for what meager things a newb such as I have earned in my few months, but I just sit there and take it. Not that I had much choice, mind you.
One thing I do have to note here... It's silly to make the argument that logging out is metagaming and in the same breath speak of using alt scouts to avoid the camps in the first place. Makes one look rather ignorant.
Logging is lame... irregardless of metagaming.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.31 22:31:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Beef Hardslab I never have and never will log out to save my arse. I've been ganked for what meager things a newb such as I have earned in my few months, but I just sit there and take it. Not that I had much choice, mind you.
One thing I do have to note here... It's silly to make the argument that logging out is metagaming and in the same breath speak of using alt scouts to avoid the camps in the first place. Makes one look rather ignorant.
Logging is lame... irregardless of metagaming.
You apparently like taking it from behind from gate campers, hope you're not same way in RL for your own's sake...
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