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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10771
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 14:30:20 -
[31] - Quote
Luna Arindale wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:People really are bad at PVE in this game, even though tbh it's mostly a joke. It's funny watching someone lose a capital ship or spending 5 bil on a battleship when the things can be killed by cruiser sized ships (and it doesn't matter how many spawn if none of them can catch you. People are making the same mistakes they make with all new PVe content, trying to use brute force (and brute tank) on things that require finesse lol. Guy in the video uses a Cerb, I use a Tengu which is actually not quite as good, but that alt can't use a Cerb yet. The doomsday hits out to 400km now if I recall. That tactic is no longer valid. I've also seen the drifters escalate to four maximum, and they dropped that on a POS. Along with several wings of circadian seekers. It was quite entertaining the first time it happened.
I killed one while avoiding another with a Tengu last night near Hek (edit there was another ship on grid so that might have helped). Still works, hell, the Seekers are more of a concern. I'm hording the drops for after summer when they should be worth something.
Edit: and I haven't tried it, but a buddy of mine swears ECM works on the things (or at least did till a few days ago), like they do on Burners. Will experiment this week, if they changed their ECM vulnerabilty perhaps they haven't done it with damps. Or neuts. |
Luna Arindale
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
60
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 14:32:41 -
[32] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Luna Arindale wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:People really are bad at PVE in this game, even though tbh it's mostly a joke. It's funny watching someone lose a capital ship or spending 5 bil on a battleship when the things can be killed by cruiser sized ships (and it doesn't matter how many spawn if none of them can catch you. People are making the same mistakes they make with all new PVe content, trying to use brute force (and brute tank) on things that require finesse lol. Guy in the video uses a Cerb, I use a Tengu which is actually not quite as good, but that alt can't use a Cerb yet. The doomsday hits out to 400km now if I recall. That tactic is no longer valid. I've also seen the drifters escalate to four maximum, and they dropped that on a POS. Along with several wings of circadian seekers. It was quite entertaining the first time it happened. I killed one while avoiding another with a Tengu last night near Hek. Still works. I'm hording the drops for after summer when they should be worth something.
Odd this article says they should hit out to 400 with the death cannon Blap |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10771
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 14:35:52 -
[33] - Quote
Luna Arindale wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Luna Arindale wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:People really are bad at PVE in this game, even though tbh it's mostly a joke. It's funny watching someone lose a capital ship or spending 5 bil on a battleship when the things can be killed by cruiser sized ships (and it doesn't matter how many spawn if none of them can catch you. People are making the same mistakes they make with all new PVe content, trying to use brute force (and brute tank) on things that require finesse lol. Guy in the video uses a Cerb, I use a Tengu which is actually not quite as good, but that alt can't use a Cerb yet. The doomsday hits out to 400km now if I recall. That tactic is no longer valid. I've also seen the drifters escalate to four maximum, and they dropped that on a POS. Along with several wings of circadian seekers. It was quite entertaining the first time it happened. I killed one while avoiding another with a Tengu last night near Hek. Still works. I'm hording the drops for after summer when they should be worth something. Odd this article says they should hit out to 400 with the death cannon Blap
Editited my post, another ship did come on to grid, but I didn't seem him pop so who knows.
More experimenting forth coming.
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
146
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Posted - 2015.04.20 15:24:07 -
[34] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:I've seen a few threadnaughts about Seekers and Drifters and Jove, but those are all lore this and theory that, I couldn't find a definitive source of information and facts about them that hasn't been outdated by someone figuring out how to solo them in a Cerb. Same guy with the Cerb has a video of soloing with a Rattlesnake I think (not idea how much he spent on it though, he did not share his fit. I did replicate his Cerb fit with a Tengu, but with less missile range. Edit: here it is.. Still, Tengu or Cerb is best. Yeah, he convo'd me and told me his fit was 5b and he wasn't using implants to help.
There were a lot of haters out there telling him it was fake, so I kindly posted the fit I had done up a while ago but didn't want to use because it is cost prohibitive until you bag 200-300 drifters by yourself before you break even. Though he pulled his video as public so now you can't see it anymore. :(
So at less than 3b you can do this:
[Rattlesnake, max buffer] Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Gecko x1 Federation Navy Garde x2 Republic Fleet Berserker x2
But good luck getting your drones to connect on something that is going 3.5km/s. And as long as you are using links, you just overheat the hardeners when you are about to take the DD and presto. Though this fit can't tank any more than normal dps from a single drifter so my guess is he has to run when he gets aggro'd by more than one.
Another thing I have yet to test, is how they handle neutral logi... with neutral logi a snake would be able to solo as many drifters as it wanted to deal with. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10771
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 15:49:18 -
[35] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:I've seen a few threadnaughts about Seekers and Drifters and Jove, but those are all lore this and theory that, I couldn't find a definitive source of information and facts about them that hasn't been outdated by someone figuring out how to solo them in a Cerb. Same guy with the Cerb has a video of soloing with a Rattlesnake I think (not idea how much he spent on it though, he did not share his fit. I did replicate his Cerb fit with a Tengu, but with less missile range. Edit: here it is.. Still, Tengu or Cerb is best. Yeah, he convo'd me and told me his fit was 5b and he wasn't using implants to help. There were a lot of haters out there telling him it was fake, so I kindly posted the fit I had done up a while ago but didn't want to use because it is cost prohibitive until you bag 200-300 drifters by yourself before you break even. Though he pulled his video as public so now you can't see it anymore. :( So at less than 3b you can do this: [Rattlesnake, max buffer] Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pith X-Type EM Ward Field Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Gecko x1 Federation Navy Garde x2 Republic Fleet Berserker x2 But good luck getting your drones to connect on something that is going 3.5km/s. And as long as you are using links, you just overheat the hardeners when you are about to take the DD and presto. Though this fit can't tank any more than normal dps from a single drifter so my guess is he has to run when he gets aggro'd by more than one. Another thing I have yet to test, is how they handle neutral logi... with neutral logi a snake would be able to solo as many drifters as it wanted to deal with.
Let me know how it goes with logi, as soon as Im able later today I'm gonna see if non-ecm ewar/CapWar does anything. I'm also wondering is a nicely timed MJD from a BC or BS would help, since Drifters telegraph their punched with that Lux Contor graphic.
As for the loot, it won't stay the same value wise, if drifter become the only source of loot needed to build new things coming after June, the values wills sky rocket, which is why I'm stockpiling antikythrea thingys as much as possible.
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Energetic Monk
Wayforward Emergent Technologies
30
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 16:10:54 -
[36] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:Kay, just so we're all nice and clear on this, Antikythera (Drifter, Circadian loot) goes for 11.5 mil in Jita right now. Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)
It takes about 70 Thermal DPS to kill a Drifter.
For me, I lose 1.5 million per Drifter kill, and theoretically gain 23 million.
I don't kill Drifters for money, but ~21.5 million per kill sounds pretty nice to me.
Reading the bolded back and forth i've somewhat came up with that there's something being told here.
I suspect a frigate being wasted on getting doomsdayed by a Drifter, and then the Drifter is killed by something, capable of those 70 Thermal DPS before it can? activate the DD once again. Can't actually test my idea since the launcher is acting up both for TQ and SiSi, and both needs patching, so the "exe"-path is also a no go. |
Riela Tanal
Repercussus Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 17:58:03 -
[37] - Quote
I take it they also currently still do not pod you after dding your ship? |
Energetic Monk
Wayforward Emergent Technologies
30
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 19:38:56 -
[38] - Quote
Riela Tanal wrote:I take it they also currently still do not pod you after dding your ship? Nope, they do pod, check out their corp "Vigilant Tyrannos" at zkillboard. The last ones was 2 days ago, one in nullsec not that costly at 10K. the other one in hi-sec at 500M+. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
579
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 21:08:24 -
[39] - Quote
Energetic Monk wrote:Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:Kay, just so we're all nice and clear on this, Antikythera (Drifter, Circadian loot) goes for 11.5 mil in Jita right now. Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)
It takes about 70 Thermal DPS to kill a Drifter.
For me, I lose 1.5 million per Drifter kill, and theoretically gain 23 million.
I don't kill Drifters for money, but ~21.5 million per kill sounds pretty nice to me. Reading the bolded back and forth i've somewhat came up with that there's something being told here. I suspect a frigate being wasted on getting doomsdayed by a Drifter, and then the Drifter is killed by something, capable of those 70 Thermal DPS before it can? activate the DD once again. Can't actually test my idea since the launcher is acting up both for TQ and SiSi, and both needs patching, so the "exe"-path is also a no go.
That would be my guess. Sacrifice a pawn to kill the king.
Challenge to CODE: Can you gank a Drifter before it ganks you??? |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
146
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 21:30:31 -
[40] - Quote
Just as a heads up, with Seekers... I was repping my brother without doing anything aggressive towards the Seekers, only had my brother locked and repping him so he could use a max dps vigilant to facemelt them.
As a neutral logi I received NO aggro from the Seekers. Not sure how this works with Drifters but Seekers didn't care at all.
And the cruisers warp much faster than the battleships, so it will be a little quicker. |
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12928
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 00:15:52 -
[41] - Quote
Energetic Monk wrote:Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:Kay, just so we're all nice and clear on this, Antikythera (Drifter, Circadian loot) goes for 11.5 mil in Jita right now. Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)
It takes about 70 Thermal DPS to kill a Drifter.
For me, I lose 1.5 million per Drifter kill, and theoretically gain 23 million.
I don't kill Drifters for money, but ~21.5 million per kill sounds pretty nice to me. Reading the bolded back and forth i've somewhat came up with that there's something being told here. I suspect a frigate being wasted on getting doomsdayed by a Drifter, and then the Drifter is killed by something, capable of those 70 Thermal DPS before it can? activate the DD once again. No, Frigates do all the work with me.
I use a cheap Tech I ship with any related modules I can grab off the market, kill the overshield, get doomsdayed, fly back with a much more expensive faction Frigate, and finish him.
70 Thermal DPS is just a guideline. Of course, there are much more important aspects that need to be taken into consideration. Namely volley damage.
I would have actually liked to do the first part with Rookie Ships, but it's just not possible unfortunately.
The doomsday is unimportant for the second part. Once a Drifter uses its doomsday, it cannot use it again for another hour.
From Drifters to Ferni Ka'Nviiou | -12.0% | Combat - Ship Kill
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12928
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 00:38:08 -
[42] - Quote
And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.
And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.
You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship.
From Drifters to Ferni Ka'Nviiou | -12.0% | Combat - Ship Kill
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
582
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 16:03:50 -
[43] - Quote
Ok, you seem pretty knowledgeable on this. So I ask you, if you are fighting a Circadian Seeker swarm and the BS shows up, it still will not use the doomsday until you blast through the overshield? So you are free to kill all the seekers and then engage the BS, lose ship, reship, and then kill the BS? |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
150
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:31:31 -
[44] - Quote
Yes, you just have to be able to survive the 1.2k dps per second the Drifter will be doing to you while you finish off the Seekers.
DD will not fire until the overshield (blue bar) is depleted. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
583
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:48:51 -
[45] - Quote
Ok, so under that logic. I can use a Marauder to kill the Circadians, dock and switch to a "sacrificial lamb", burn the overshield, die in a fire, reship, kill drifter in my marauder. |
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12963
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 00:26:39 -
[46] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Ok, so under that logic. I can use a Marauder to kill the Circadians, dock and switch to a "sacrificial lamb", burn the overshield, die in a fire, reship, kill drifter in my marauder. Exactly.
However, your 'sacrificial lamb' will either need to tank the 2560 DPS until you shoot through the overshield, or avoid it completely.
From Drifters to Ferni Ka'Nviiou | -12.0% | Combat - Ship Kill
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 11:50:39 -
[47] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.
And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.
You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship.
This may sound like a lot of work but can you use 2 ships, a battleshipand destroyer, for example. Burn the overshield down to just above collapse, then use a Mobile Depot to install some warp core stablizers, warp the BS out and have the destroyer crack the overshield. He gets DD, but the BS can then finish the Drifter off.
Would that work? |
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12972
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 11:55:59 -
[48] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.
And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.
You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship. This may sound like a lot of work but can you use 2 ships, a battleship and destroyer, for example. Burn the overshield down to just above collapse, then use a Mobile Depot to install some warp core stablizers, warp the BS out and have the destroyer crack the overshield. He gets DD, but the BS can then finish the Drifter off. Would that work? Yes, but flag the the warp core stabs.
Drifters only scramble you when they're firing their Doomsday. You can warp freely in any other part of the engagement.
From Drifters to Ferni Ka'Nviiou | -12.0% | Combat - Ship Kill
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 15:43:35 -
[49] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.
And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.
You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship. This may sound like a lot of work but can you use 2 ships, a battleship and destroyer, for example. Burn the overshield down to just above collapse, then use a Mobile Depot to install some warp core stablizers, warp the BS out and have the destroyer crack the overshield. He gets DD, but the BS can then finish the Drifter off. Would that work? Yes, but flag the the warp core stabs. Drifters only scramble you when they're firing their Doomsday. You can warp freely in any other part of the engagement.
Ohhh cool. Good call, thanks. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3318
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 13:30:42 -
[50] - Quote
So how is Ferni doing kills with just a frig? Can the lux whatever be speed tanked?
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
13004
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 13:36:26 -
[51] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:So how is Ferni doing kills with just a frig? Can the lux whatever be speed tanked? Yes.
The Lux Kontos have near the same tracking as 280mm Artillery Cannons. That's only 0.062rad/s. There are laughable extremes as a result of this.
From Drifters to Ferni Ka'Nviiou | -12.0% | Combat - Ship Kill
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3318
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 14:03:45 -
[52] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:So how is Ferni doing kills with just a frig? Can the lux whatever be speed tanked? Yes. The Lux Kontos have near the same tracking as 280mm Artillery Cannons. That's only 0.062rad/s. There are laughable extremes as a result of this. OK, that wins the thread. But if there are two drifters its going to be a pain to speed tank both. You need to orbit one while you keep your orbital plane flat on to the other. What range to drifters orbit?
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
13008
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Posted - 2015.04.23 15:04:52 -
[53] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:What range do drifters orbit?
...
But if there are two drifters its going to be a pain to speed tank both. You need to orbit one while you keep your orbital plane flat on to the other. This is the big challenge. I actually technically have to manually orbit and keep my velocity vector perpendicular to the Drifter's at all times. I can sometimes get away with a whole lot of luck, but that doesn't really mean much to me. The way the 3D camera works makes it very hard to manually orbit properly.
I haven't had a whole lot of luck with it so far, hence the multiple wrecks in that image from me trying to kill the other Drifter.
Vincent Athena wrote: Also, I don't get that Rattlesnake fit. I put it into PYFA, and got 632K EHP for the shields, even with overheat. That's less than the 750K you get form the doomsday. In addition, the shield regen is 977 EHP/s, which is less than the 1280 of a Drifter. So how does it work?
I have no idea. I didn't make the fit; I can't fly battleships, so I don't really know too much. They were going to try use logistics, I think.
You can always just range them.
At 217,175 metres exactly, the Drifter Chance-To-Hit becomes completely null.
From Drifters to Ferni Ka'Nviiou | -12.0% | Combat - Ship Kill
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
13008
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Posted - 2015.04.23 15:09:07 -
[54] - Quote
Oh, I forgot to answer: Drifters orbit at 15km. Somehow they manage to keep a perfect orbit at 15 - 16km.
Also a note to others in the thread, normal Drifter chase velocity is 2200m/s (or 2.3, within that range). That's also their orbit speed. Their chase velocity when the target is at extreme range or is moving faster than 2.2km/s is 3500 m/s.
From Drifters to Ferni Ka'Nviiou | -12.0% | Combat - Ship Kill
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3318
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 15:28:41 -
[55] - Quote
I played around a bit with that 'snake fit. If you replace one shield extender with a third deadspace invul, replace a power diagnostic with a DCU, and use three extender rigs, then the buffer is 1.01 million, overheat on. With the overheat off, you can tank 1250 DPS. Still low, so you will need to warp around a bit to give the shields a chance to recover. This will be especially needed just before the doomsday fires. You need to:
Almost take down the overshield Either dock, or just warp about, to let your shields recover Kill the overshield, take the DD Kill the Drifter, warping as needed to let your shields recover
Also, for that empty high slot: Consider a tractor beam. Very useful for collecting the wreck while you stay aligned.
Of course if you are going to dock, you can undock in a sacrificial frig, and speed tank them long enough to kill the last bit of overshield. Even if there are two drifters, you can most likely get that last bit of overshield.
Of course, all this may be moot once CCP updates the Seekers and Drifters next week.
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
156
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Posted - 2015.04.23 16:06:55 -
[56] - Quote
I thought I had mentioned on the Rattlesnake fit that I had a perfect booster providing links? *Sorry, I had passably casually mentioned links, but not that I had my perfect boost character in a vulture with a mindlink providing the extra to bridge the gap*
Yeah, on its own it can't make the ehp requirement, but with a perfect link boost it easily tops it, with extra hp and higher resists. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3321
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 18:46:01 -
[57] - Quote
Ah, I missed the links part. With links, and the modified fit, maybe cheaper invuls can be used? Also, change out a few power diagnostics for damage modules, and the ship doubles as a L4 mission boat, so it's not just a Drifter farmer.
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
156
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 19:15:53 -
[58] - Quote
Unfortunately, even downgrading them to the relatively cheap Gistum C-types the overall ehp only hits 757k... which means you will end up in structure if everything goes 100% right. Not exactly a place you want to be.
Still wouldn't be a bad mission boat but then you also want to take into account prop mods for the darn gate driving, painter, drone assist mod, which all take very directly away from the tank. |
Arthur Aihaken
Jormungand Corporation
4366
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 19:50:59 -
[59] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:After poking around at some Seekers and having their big brother Drifters come in to ruin the party earlier this evening on TQ, I got to wondering, what exactly is the point to them in Hi-Sec and is there any reason to not just ignore them? Until such time as capitals are allowed in high-sec, none. I don't get the whole "dangerous" aspect, unless they start arbitrarily hunting down ships in high-sec - at which point I think I'd welcome gankers (at least you have a chance with CONCORD coming to your aid).
That's an interesting (albeit expensive) Rattlesnake fit to make $20-million ISK on a fairly risky proposition...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
342
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Posted - 2015.04.23 21:07:30 -
[60] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:rabble.
High sec .... learn how to play the game FFS.
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