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Yuri Gagarijn
Interstellare Asteroidenlutscher Harkonnen Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 10:48:09 -
[1] - Quote
Heyho,
as you can see i want to buy a new mission missilenboat, but I couldn't find an actual thread about this topic, so i made this one.
What i know about the ships is, that the raven has alot of dps but a weak tank and the scorpion/rattlesnake has a better tank but not so good dps.
Can you tell me the strengths and weaknesses of each ship? Are there mentionable alternatives?
Thanks
PS: sorry for my english, im not a native speaker. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1153
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Posted - 2015.04.19 11:07:12 -
[2] - Quote
Rattlesnake has more tank and dps than both of them. Only downside is that it's a mixed weapon system.
Scorp has good tank but bad application, you will eventually need to sacrifice tank for target painters
navy raven has the best base application with the 25% reduction to explosion radius and has the same base DPS as the scorp
Overall rattlesnake is cheaper and better than the other two but requires much more sp. |
Yuri Gagarijn
Interstellare Asteroidenlutscher Harkonnen Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 11:11:38 -
[3] - Quote
How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15614
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Posted - 2015.04.19 11:36:48 -
[4] - Quote
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.
I would say go for the raven and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9374
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Posted - 2015.04.19 12:00:42 -
[5] - Quote
listen to Baltec and go with the raven, there are plenty of people (myself included) that would love to **** with an inexperienced pilot in a faction battleship but ignore a raven.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Odithia
Rondass
79
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Posted - 2015.04.19 12:18:33 -
[6] - Quote
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. In adition to basic core skills (navigation, targeting, engineering, shield, etc.), you need both solid drone and missile skills. That's two weapon system to get to battleship level and it takes a while.
I would get solid core and missiles skills then start with a regular Raven then sell it and get a Rattlesnake once drones skills are good enough. By good drone skills I mean all support at 4, drone interfacing 5 and possibly heavy and sentry drones 5. |
Yuri Gagarijn
Interstellare Asteroidenlutscher Harkonnen Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 14:14:56 -
[7] - Quote
When you talk about the Raven you mean the Raven Navy Issue, right? |
SirElwood Blues
TimeZone Warriors
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 14:15:25 -
[8] - Quote
Skill good for a cruise raven, and while you're comfortable flying it, train the Golem. It's THE beast to do missions in. |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax3
74
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Posted - 2015.04.19 14:20:45 -
[9] - Quote
So, just starting out with low skill points, I suggest the following progression, navy scorp -> navy raven-> golem
For the next ship line machariel-> vargur
As far as the rattlesnake, I find it slow and far to micromanagy to get anywhere close to its potential EFT dps.
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
120
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Posted - 2015.04.19 14:55:49 -
[10] - Quote
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:When you talk about the Raven you mean the Raven Navy Issue, right?
No, standard Raven, then Golem skip both Navy Raven & Scorpion. When you have solid drone skills you could try and have some fun with Rattler. |
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Yuri Gagarijn
Interstellare Asteroidenlutscher Harkonnen Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 15:09:42 -
[11] - Quote
The RattleS already does more damage when i have both BS skills on 3. Lets say a launcher does 100 dps (for example):
Scorpion Navi Issue= 6 Launcher = 600dps RS = 5 Launcher = 500dps + gallente bs skill = 650dps
Am i right with this?
Also the RS is much more afforable than the RNI or the SNI and has a better tank.
Did i oversee something or is the Rattlesnake the cheapest/best ship. |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
119
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Posted - 2015.04.19 15:16:59 -
[12] - Quote
There have been many, many posts here on the Rattlesnake, CNR, Raven, and Scorp. You just really bother to look, or you didn't look very hard.
As you are only a 2 month player, I think you better wait until you get into any BS. With low SPs, which means poor dps, poor tank, and poor support skills, you will most llikely lose it. Being at a young tender age in EVE, you may not handle losing all what you have earned in an instant. Old adage, even if you can afford it doesn't mean you should fly it.
Stay in a BC, if you are even at that point, and do L3s.
Grasshopper, you will know when you are ready, when you don't have to ask.
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
637
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Posted - 2015.04.19 15:25:54 -
[13] - Quote
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.
I don't think that is the right question in this case.
The ship information will tell you what you need to train to fly a Rattlesnake but the thing is, you are in for a huge disappointment if you don't a few years more of skills in your sheet.
When you try to do the same thing with three very different ships, you will be disappointed too.
The Raven (tech one) is a fast moving kiting ship.
The Navy Raven is and improved Raven.
The Navy Scorpion is an improved Rokh in a Scorpion hull.
And the Rattlesnake is the last and higest improvement of a Navy Raven with some extra treats and tradeoffs.
The Golem is a specialized tech2 boat, which is no improvement of anything.
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
578
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Posted - 2015.04.19 16:49:51 -
[14] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. 1) I would say go for the raven 2) and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class. 1 is good advice. 2 is bad advice.
What I find strange about the OP questions is that it sounds like OP does not use missile ships for L1, 2 and 3 missions... Which is strange because that is where "normal" people learn about balancing tank and gank. Which brings us to my recommendation.
Since OP is obviously clueless, the best ship for OP is Navy Scorp. Why? 1) It has good tank that will likely keep clueless OP alive long enough to learn what the "normal" people learned doing L1, 2 and 3. I see the clueless OP dieing quiet easily in Navy Raven. And Rattle requires good advanced drone skills (and reasonably good missile skills) that the clueless OP obviously does not have. 2) It has good gank, but it uses single weapon system, cruise missiles. Not great gank like Navy Raven or Rattle, but good enough to do the job, to learn about gank and tank, and with that experience "under the belt" the OP can then decide: 2a) More gank, less tank cruise missile Navy Raven. 2b) More gank, more tank, split weapon systems (sentry drones+cruise missiles) and a longer training time Rattlesnake.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first!
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1153
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Posted - 2015.04.19 17:13:15 -
[15] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. I don't think that is the right question in this case. The ship information will tell you what you need to train to fly a Rattlesnake but the thing is, you are in for a huge disappointment if you don't a few years more of skills in your sheet. When you try to do the same thing with three very different ships, you will be disappointed too. The Raven (tech one) is a fast moving kiting ship. The Navy Raven is and improved Raven. The Navy Scorpion is an improved Rokh in a Scorpion hull. And the Rattlesnake is the last and higest improvement of a Navy Raven with some extra treats and tradeoffs. The Golem is a specialized tech2 boat, which is no improvement of anything.
so much bleurgh in this post =S
Do you know how much of this is wrong?
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Valkin Mordirc
876
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Posted - 2015.04.19 17:19:02 -
[16] - Quote
Yuri Gagarijn wrote:The RattleS already does more damage when i have both BS skills on 3. Lets say a launcher does 100 dps (for example):
Scorpion Navi Issue= 6 Launcher = 600dps RS = 5 Launcher = 500dps + gallente bs skill = 650dps
Am i right with this?
Also the RS is much more afforable than the RNI or the SNI and has a better tank + i can tain drones over time so i get that dps too.
Did i oversee something or is the Rattlesnake the cheapest/best ship.
You forgot to add the 500DPS to 600 dps from the two sentries or heavies. The Rattlesnake is a Drone/Missile ship.
Honestly you seem to be making a common mistake. Fly what you want. But the "Battleship Rush" most newbro seems to be the case.
Bigger isn't always better.
EDIT: Yeah your totally rushing into battleships, I would stop and stick into a CBC if your doing lvl 3's. Battleships are skill intesive and you need a large about of core skills be they become remotely usefull.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
120
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Posted - 2015.04.19 21:02:35 -
[17] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:elitatwo wrote:Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. I don't think that is the right question in this case. The ship information will tell you what you need to train to fly a Rattlesnake but the thing is, you are in for a huge disappointment if you don't a few years more of skills in your sheet. When you try to do the same thing with three very different ships, you will be disappointed too. The Raven (tech one) is a fast moving kiting ship. The Navy Raven is and improved Raven. The Navy Scorpion is an improved Rokh in a Scorpion hull. And the Rattlesnake is the last and higest improvement of a Navy Raven with some extra treats and tradeoffs. The Golem is a specialized tech2 boat, which is no improvement of anything. so much bleurgh in this post =S Do you know how much of this is wrong?
It is wrong. |
Arthur Aihaken
Jormungand Corporation
4353
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Posted - 2015.04.19 22:25:17 -
[18] - Quote
Rattlesnake is king.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
395
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Posted - 2015.04.20 08:11:08 -
[19] - Quote
If you've got any experience with the standard Raven then most likely the Navy Scorpion will be the most familiar to you. It does have a much stronger tank (with additional midslots and the resist bonus) and it is unlikely that most (being used to Cruise Missiles) will miss the range bonus (does anyone use Torps anymore?).
The Navy Raven has slightly more tank than the standard Raven (more HP and an additional midslot) but also has the full eight launchers and that damage application bonus which will tend to make the missiles hit harder. While with maximum skills the bonuses of the various missile ships gives them all the same effective launchers (the Navy Scorp has 4/3 x 6 = 8 effective launchers due to its RoF bonus...etc.) the Navy Raven gets that damage at lower skill levels. For the less experienced pilot the Navy Raven is likely the way to go.
The Rattlesnake has a damage type specific bonus and ends up with fewer effective launchers (7.5) than the other two suggested options despite this... However the Rattler is arguably more like a Dominix than a Raven - while the other two use drones primarily as a defensive system, to clear off frigates and so forth, the Rattler will want heavy drones (Heavy Drones, Sentry Drones or the Gecko) and will use them much more aggressively. There are people who fly the Rattler entirely without missiles (I wouldn't recommend it but they seem to feel the benefits are sufficient).
So, as a three month old character, I would probably recommend the Navy Raven to you. It will offer a significant improvement in performance of course, but it will also feel most familiar to you. The Navy Scorp would be my second choice - its stronger tank may make things easier but it's probably a challenge for a newer player to balance this with the damage potential. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
641
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Posted - 2015.04.20 20:43:26 -
[20] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:so much bleurgh in this post =S
Do you know how much of this is wrong?
enlighten us
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
176
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Posted - 2015.04.20 20:55:40 -
[21] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:so much bleurgh in this post =S
Do you know how much of this is wrong?
enlighten us
Well the rokh is a hybrid turret boat, and the navy scorp is a missile boat for one. And using the term "kite" on a BS is alil far fetched, no?
Can it be done? Yes. But it is not the intended role of the ship. Thats more mach/bharg territory. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
641
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Posted - 2015.04.20 21:42:58 -
[22] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Well the rokh is a hybrid turret boat, and the navy scorp is a missile boat for one. And using the term "kite" on a BS is alil far fetched, no?
Can it be done? Yes. But it is not the intended role of the ship. Thats more mach/bharg territory.
Stich dear, what I meant was the navy scorpion moves with the mobility of the Rokh and close to the same amount of tank.
According to the battleship rebalance thread the 'role' of the Raven was 'fast moving attack battleship', so it is just a quote.
If we were to follow the tiericide approach vision, the Navy Scorpion would have been a tankier Scorpion but instead she isn't a super-tanky ecm-boat.
The Golem is not a Raven improvement but a special case boat. I wanted to reflect that tech2 is not better than tech one but different.
Our pirate faction ships are the top improvements of two worlds and should always be seen at the top of the performance pyramid.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
121
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Posted - 2015.04.21 02:41:52 -
[23] - Quote
That's a strange comparision SNI and Rokh where SNI is an improved model of ROkh.
Maybe you forgot about Widow which is improved version of Scorpion. SNI outperform Rokh in tanking ability easily.
And Raven's family in a logical tierisation from Raven to Golem where CNR is just a mid step while you training for a pro Golem pilot.
As well as Rattler is not an improved version of Raven at all.
"Rattlesnake Rattlesnake In the time-honored tradition of pirates everywhere, Korako GÇÿRabbit' Kosakami shamelessly stole the idea of the Scorpion-class battleship and put his own spin on it. The result: the fearsome Rattlesnake, flagship of any large Gurista attack force. There are, of course, also those who claim things were the other way around; that the notorious silence surrounding the Scorpion's own origins is, in fact, an indication of its having been designed by Kosakami all along." copyright. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7899
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:36:02 -
[24] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:According to the battleship rebalance thread the 'role' of the Raven was 'fast moving attack battleship', so it is just a quote. There is often a HUGE difference between what the DEVs intend and how things actually are.
The Raven is battleship. Battleships are, by and large, lumbering beasts of burden. They should be fitted and treated as such. (note: there ARE exceptions to this... but I would not recommend such things to a person who is obviously "green")
Both the Navy Scorpion and Navy Raven are straight "upgrades" from the Raven... but in different ways.
(using similar fits with level 5 skills) - The Navy Scorpion is basically a tankier version of the Raven. - The Navy Raven is a gankier version of the Raven with better damage application. - The Golem has about the same gankiness as the Navy Raven... with a tank as good or absurdly better than the Navy Scorpion.
The Rattlesnake is kind of a "lateral move" from the Golem. It can pump out more damage (easily 1000+), apply most of the damage better (because drones apply better than missiles)... but with a tank only as good as the Navy Scorpion.
Getting back on topic though...
Yuri Gagarijn...
Do what baltec said. Start with the REGULAR Raven first. You want to make mistakes (and you WILL make mistakes) in something "cheap" before you move on to more expensive hardware.
How did you start?
The SP System
IFW
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
127
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:02:47 -
[25] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Well the rokh is a hybrid turret boat, and the navy scorp is a missile boat for one. And using the term "kite" on a BS is alil far fetched, no?
Can it be done? Yes. But it is not the intended role of the ship. Thats more mach/bharg territory. Stich dear, what I meant was the navy scorpion moves with the mobility of the Rokh and close to the same amount of tank. According to the battleship rebalance thread the 'role' of the Raven was 'fast moving attack battleship', so it is just a quote. If we were to follow the tiericide approach vision, the Navy Scorpion would have been a tankier Scorpion but instead she isn't a super-tanky ecm-boat. The Golem is not a Raven improvement but a special case boat. I wanted to reflect that tech2 is not better than tech one but different. Our pirate faction ships are the top improvements of two worlds and should always be seen at the top of the performance pyramid.
You have defecated so much wrong into this discussion that even if any of your statements were correct they are now wrong because of the stain of your horrendous posting.
Everything you have said in this thread, is hereby wrong. Very wrong. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
641
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:32:27 -
[26] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:You have defecated so much wrong into this discussion that even if any of your statements were correct they are now wrong because of the stain of your horrendous posting.
Everything you have said in this thread, is hereby wrong. Very wrong.
And YOU have zero credibility and nobody believes anything you ever say. So stop talking altogether and keep it in your purse.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:51:55 -
[27] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:You have defecated so much wrong into this discussion that even if any of your statements were correct they are now wrong because of the stain of your horrendous posting.
Everything you have said in this thread, is hereby wrong. Very wrong. And YOU have zero credibility and nobody believes anything you ever say. So stop talking altogether and keep it in your purse.
I am just going to Kite your comments in my Erebus of thought |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15622
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Posted - 2015.04.21 22:07:15 -
[28] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. 1) I would say go for the raven 2) and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class. 1 is good advice. 2 is bad advice.
No it is sound advice.
Level 3 missions are far less dangerous than diving right into level 4 missions and will allow the OP to use the battleship with far fewer skills both in terms of SP and piloting.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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GordonO
Evil Guinea Pigs
109
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Posted - 2015.04.22 00:46:02 -
[29] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. I would say go for the raven and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class.
That's just terrible advice, don't do it. Cruise missiles don't do well for smaller ships, but I am sure baltec1 is just trolling.
The RS is imo the better choice, you can blap frigs on their way in with sentries which you can't do with cruise missiles. Raven nay is a decent ship but I find it needs really good skills to work properly. Start with a scorp navy and go from there is you a missile pilot. RS is a longer train as you need but cruise and sentry skills to make it shine
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.22 00:47:10 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Caleidascope wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. 1) I would say go for the raven 2) and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class. 1 is good advice. 2 is bad advice. No it is sound advice. Level 3 missions are far less dangerous than diving right into level 4 missions and will allow the OP to use the battleship with far fewer skills both in terms of SP and piloting.
I think the point they were trying to make is a Raven is a horrible choice for L3 missions and they are correct. However I see what you want the OP to accomplish so I understand your reasoning for the suggestion. |
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