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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.31 12:54:00 -
[31]
/signed and long overdue
While you're at it fix medium beam grid, it's simply just nuts
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Famine Aligher'ri
V i L e
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:17:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 31/10/2006 13:18:15 Bah, I give up
Vile - Recruiting Pirates |
Ysolde Xen
Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:22:00 -
[33]
NOOO!
The Wolf doesn't have the PG or design to be able to use Arties properly without utterly gimping everything else. The Jaguar, however, DOES.
The original design of the two is perhaps a bit odd and counter-intuitive but if you were to simply swap the bonuses around you would NOT make the Wolf into an arty over AC platform. To swap their roles would require a more thorough redesign and rejigging of stats.
So very much not /signed.
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It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong. |
Diana Merris
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.31 14:10:00 -
[34]
NOT signed.
Arty Jag forever!
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Scots Crusader
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:49:00 -
[35]
Signed. IMHO Wolf is by far superior Arty platform and should have the bonuses switched for this reason. -----------------------------------------------
O wad some power, the giftie gie us, To see oursels as ithers see us!
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:58:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Weirda on 31/10/2006 16:00:22 Wolf is better for artillary: - more guns, more alpha - 2 mids, more mass, slower -- you can go web/scram for solo 0-20km. anyone who think you can't pop unwebbed intys outside of 10km is simply wrong -- ??/sensor booster for long range tremor work
Jag is better for autos: - faster - more mids and better tank
now, if what most of you say is true (and the boni don't pigeonhole these ship as it is, but would if they are change), then you defeat you own argument.
debate is fine, but all those against have failed to prove why these bonus shouldn't be switched other then 'love my ARTY JAG'. Guess what? Weirda loved ARTY jag too, but when they added DMG bonus to these ship, aside from mixed up bonus, it become even more clear that Jag is Autoboat and Wolf Artyboat. Jag used to have tracking bonus which is gone, and Wolf used to have Range bonus, which is gone. Weirda LOVED that range bonus.
In perfect world they would BOTH have range and falloff (and the 4th bonus would no longer be false resistance bonus).
People fitting Autos on their wolf aren't "different", or "special" or any of that. They are simply chosing to use their ship in that way (there are plenty of blaster harpy and blaster eagle out there which are much more 'niche' and 'special').
The ONLY advantage that Wolf have over Jag when fitting autos is slight DPS at sacrifice of horrible tank, bad speed, and no ability to tackle (both web AND scram). At the end of the day, the ONLY advantage Wolf have is a PvE advantage. And from PvE perspective, little, if nothing at all would change for you because dealing with slight amount of kms in PvE is much less of issue then PvP.
as for guy flaming Weirda about not being AF pilot, believe what you want but you ad hominem is pointless - and you will be reported for trolling. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now Stealth Bomber Tweaks |
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:59:00 -
[37]
/sign w. the blood of 1000 amarr forum whiners!
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Leshrac Shepherd
Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.31 16:27:00 -
[38]
It sounds like a good idea, not against it. But it benefits the Jaguar far more than the Wolf, and the wolf is the ship that most needs the help right now. Artilleries suck, any ship made for them will suck too, and even more once we get to kali.
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Mortuus
Minmatar Oblivion's Gate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 17:38:00 -
[39]
Lets go over it again.
Wolf: Gang ship except in rare instances. You can use it solo but it is in no way the most optimal AF for it. The Wolf does not have the grid, or mids to make a good artillery boat. You think Alpha is anywhere near to everything and thats wrong, much more so post Kali. With AC's it makes a great DPS ship for a small frigate gang.
Jaguar: A brilliant Arty platform, easily better than the Wolf in every capacity other than Alpha. 3x Gyro t2 makes it hurt quite alot, and the optimal bonus allows the guns to efficiently kill interceptors that won't get close. Due to the midslots its also a great heavy tackler in its AC role.
The Wolf will never be a great Arty platform, it doesn't have the grid, slot layout, or armor/shield ratio to be good at it. The Jaguar has all of those and the speed to keep range.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Kaathar Rielspar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.01 00:09:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kaathar Rielspar on 01/11/2006 00:09:51
Originally by: Mortuus Lets go over it again.
Wolf: Gang ship except in rare instances. You can use it solo but it is in no way the most optimal AF for it. The Wolf does not have the grid, or mids to make a good artillery boat. You think Alpha is anywhere near to everything and thats wrong, much more so post Kali. With AC's it makes a great DPS ship for a small frigate gang.
Jaguar: A brilliant Arty platform, easily better than the Wolf in every capacity other than Alpha. 3x Gyro t2 makes it hurt quite alot, and the optimal bonus allows the guns to efficiently kill interceptors that won't get close. Due to the midslots its also a great heavy tackler in its AC role.
The Wolf will never be a great Arty platform, it doesn't have the grid, slot layout, or armor/shield ratio to be good at it. The Jaguar has all of those and the speed to keep range.
...in addition to the cpu needed to fit 2-3 gyro's in order to improve the RoF
leave them as they are, or if Weirda can push for it: get rid of the fake bonuses and replace them with optimal bonus on the wolf and speed bonus on the jag ____________________
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs?
Overpriced Nos victims.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.11.01 00:16:00 -
[41]
Difference in falloff dps from the range isn't to great, however the difference in optimal is significant.
It means the ships have roles instead of overlapping each others roles.
This shows the Current Bonus bonus and how the falloff doesn't have a great effect.
While this graph with the bonus Weirda's Updated bonus suggestion makes the wolf a clear Sniper platform, the difference in AC's in minimal while all swaping the optimal bonus means instead of both being ok snipers it makes the wolf a better sniper and the Jag less of a sniper. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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OrangeAfroMan
Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.11.01 01:28:00 -
[42]
(btw having a falloff bonus on the Jag is still quite nice for snipers as Arties have very similar optimal and falloff to begin with)
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Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.11.01 01:32:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Weirda Thrasher - superior Arty ship Jag - superior Auto ship
Fixed
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Mortuus
Minmatar Oblivion's Gate
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Posted - 2006.11.01 02:52:00 -
[44]
Snipe what? I engage with Arty at 15km or less, usually within web range if its against a ceptor. Why, I can pretty much get 3 excellent hits per volley that way.
I understand that Falloff won't massively affect the Jaguar, however it will stick the wolf in only one role, and its a role it fails at.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
operated
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2006.11.01 23:00:00 -
[45]
not signed Wolf = armourtanker cause it has 4 lows so you want highest damage dealing guns wich are autocannons .
Jaguar= shieldtanker that has speed and can obtain range and has 3 lows for gyrostabs tracking enhancer
imo both ships can use both guns but asking to change the bonuses , well lets say i love my wolf and i like its bonusses . The jag not my thing .
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