Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
50
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 17:07:02 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings,
i'm sure there's a better term for them, but what i mean with "rat pelts" are items whose only purpose is to be sold to NPC vendors at a fixed price. Examples include overseer effects, high-tech stuff , midshipman insignias, sleeper components and frozen commodities. I simply may not have found other uses for some of those items yet, but i think it's safe to say that the category exists. In economic terms i'd classify them as an ISK spring, albeit in contrast to bounties and mission rewards they have the chance to leave the game prematurely due to having a volume and fixed locations where they can be sold. Now my question to you is this: Do you think CCP should make more use of them, since they present a subtle, yet powerful economic setscrew (or for other reasons) or do you think they should give way to items whose value is influenced more strongly by players?
TL;DR: Are items with fixed NPC prices good or bad?
Footnote: The topic might seem more suitable for market discussions but didn't really fit the tooltip of that subforum, kinda has a design philosophical aspect to it. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1963
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 17:21:35 -
[2] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote:Greetings,
i'm sure there's a better term for them, but what i mean with "rat pelts" are items whose only purpose is to be sold to NPC vendors at a fixed price. Examples include overseer effects, high-tech stuff , midshipman insignias, sleeper components and frozen commodities. I simply may not have found other uses for some of those items yet, but i think it's safe to say that the category exists. In economic terms i'd classify them as an ISK spring, albeit in contrast to bounties and mission rewards they have the chance to leave the game prematurely due to having a volume and fixed locations where they can be sold. Now my question to you is this: Do you think CCP should make more use of them, since they present a subtle, yet powerful economic setscrew (or for other reasons) or do you think they should give way to items whose value is influenced more strongly by players?
TL;DR: Are items with fixed NPC prices good or bad?
Footnote: The topic might seem more suitable for market discussions but didn't really fit the tooltip of that subforum, kinda has a design philosophical aspect to it.
sleeper components? you know those are used in t3 production right? unless you mean blue loot.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
20878
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 17:23:34 -
[3] - Quote
This is an Agenda Thread...
Jokarz > you got owned?
Chris Justice > just a bit
Chris Justice > They were pulsing smart bombs at the point we all warped in. insta death.
Lev Arturis > pervs got 59 killmails
PERVS doing lowsec DD
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5373
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 17:38:37 -
[4] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:.... and seriously Reaper wtf do you quote the first post on second place? So we know which post he is replying to... duuhhh.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
50
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 17:45:29 -
[5] - Quote
@Reaper: Yes, i mean blue loot. (Wasn't aware of the term.)
@Solecist Project: Umm, agenda thread as in agenda setting (providing select topics for public discussion) or as in trying to pull people on one's side in a discussion? The sooner definitely, the latter ... well i tried to phrase it neutral but i guess my own opinion shines through. But hey, somebody might come along and point out things i missed entirely. The pondering period hasn't been too long. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7949
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 17:52:25 -
[6] - Quote
Fixed prices are bad.
I had nice idea about Overseer effects, they basically could be made into containers with surprises inside: blueprints for faction modules, meta items or such.. People would open it or sell on the market.
Technical Support
|
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
868
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 18:06:47 -
[7] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Fixed prices are bad.
I had nice idea about Overseer effects, they basically could be made into containers with surprises inside: blueprints for faction modules, meta items or such, or nothing.. People would open it or sell on the market.
Well, different levels of overseer effects would have chance to drop other items. With lowest chance on the lovest level of the Overseer effects.
Or go a step further and make it an ISK sink by paying an NPC to hack them.
The benchmark in true junk for me is the guristas electrum tag. The reason I say that is, they were never worth the reproc and with 50% base they are even less worth it now, they never had a purpose and they accumulate more and more, day by day. It's to the point now they can't even be assigned a use because there are so many of them, no use would deplete the stocks.
Racial T2 salvage is another example of junk in the extreme. T2 ANN's. How many do you want? A million? Ten Million? You will have them in a few months with a buy order in Jita. They are fallout from a salvage bottleneck and can by design, never get used up.
What to do, OP? They waited too long in many cases. We have so much junk that they can never let it become valuable. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
20881
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 18:17:27 -
[8] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Solecist Project wrote:.... and seriously Reaper wtf do you quote the first post on second place? So we know which post he is replying to... duuhhh. Oh bob that made me laugh for the first time today!
thanks! :D
Jokarz > you got owned?
Chris Justice > just a bit
Chris Justice > They were pulsing smart bombs at the point we all warped in. insta death.
Lev Arturis > pervs got 59 killmails
PERVS doing lowsec DD
|
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
6054
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 18:20:09 -
[9] - Quote
Adding more overseer effects with a fixed NPC buy price is simply an extra isk faucet.
Adding more things that are useful to players in some facet of the game can have ripple effects on large portions of the market and are harder to balance.
If unique items of the second type are added, it can be a good way to introduce new end-products or new technologies, and be somewhat controllable. But if clones of existing things are added, they risk driving the value of other sources of this item down, and also driving down the value of the end product they're used in.
The first type of item can be used on the market by enterprising players to buy and sell to make profit margins by adding convenience, but in the end they're not very interesting to me. The profit margin is too predictable when you have a hard ceiling or floor. I don't think we need more of them.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7949
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 18:24:54 -
[10] - Quote
Ocih wrote: The benchmark in true junk for me is the guristas electrum tag. The reason I say that is, they were never worth the reproc and with 50% base they are even less worth it now, they never had a purpose and they accumulate more and more, day by day.
And all it would take is to make those tags into currency in Caldari Navy lp store, or CONCORD.
Technical Support
|
|
Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:12:52 -
[11] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Fixed prices are bad.
No, they are not.
Take blue loot for example. It adds a nice, subtle new challenge to the game. Instead of having bounties that get paid out (which would not make sense on sleepers anyways), you have to loot them and safely bring the loot out of the hole to a station with a vendor that buys them.
This adds many subtle things to the game which are all good. it increases effort and risk compared to bounties. It makes it possible to steal blue loot and makes catching things in wspace really fun and sometimes pleasantly suprising.
On the other hand, removing it wouldn't do any good. You would have two options: a.) Putting a bounty on the sleeper in the same height as the blue loot or b.) find a use for blue loot in industry.
a.) Wouldn't really be different then fixed prices, except that it would be easier, with less risk and with less pportunity for attackers, ad b.) would be stupid. b.) would add a hard cap of people who can be supported by wspace to the game. Too many ppl in wspace = no ISK/h (unlike in 0.0), and to few ppl = prices for goods rise extremely making them unobtainable for many ppl.
If you don't like ixed prices for blue loot, you should also dislike fixed bounties on rats and should also demand that the loot of rats is increased and their bounty is scrapped completely. Yet this would completely ruin the game.
So yeah, having some things 'fixed' is good for the game. Bounties, some NPC prices (btw, would you REALLY want to have skillbooks removed from NPC vendors and have them be dropped and traded in the market, so that rich ppl could prevent anyone from ever catching up with them by simply draining the market of skill books? I guess not.) and what not.
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4433
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:25:24 -
[12] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The Rules: 27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1379
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 02:36:28 -
[13] - Quote
I think NPC prices should fluctuate on a supply and demand scale, so going to some very quiet system in low sec would pay a lot more than next door to a supply station near a trade hub.
(This can be determined by the number of players selling loot to the NPCs and in what quantities.)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
pushdogg
Hell's Portals Thank You Come Again
9
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 03:01:47 -
[14] - Quote
came expecting a die antwoord type ratskin jacket. left dissappointed.
on topic, i hate that i have literally dozens of overseer lunchboxes collecting dust in hangars across the universe, i would love a reason to do something with them. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7952
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 07:26:27 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:If you don't like ixed prices for blue loot, you should also dislike fixed bounties on rats and should also demand that the loot of rats is increased and their bounty is scrapped completely. Yet this would completely ruin the game.
I dont like fixed prices. Demand should dictate the price for everything. ISK faucets are too many. There should be only one isk faucet, completely tied to fighting the rats, but not in the form of bounties, but lootable tags. This means that tags would have to be bringed to agent to be exchanged in LP store for modules or ISK. The only fixed price I am able to accept is the Dogtags/ISK exchange. Dogtags as a rat pelts.
Technical Support
|
Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 07:34:02 -
[16] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I think NPC prices should fluctuate on a supply and demand scale, so going to some very quiet system in low sec would pay a lot more than next door to a supply station near a trade hub.
(This can be determined by the number of players selling loot to the NPCs and in what quantities.)
In that case, bounties should fluctuate, too. If - for example - many Guristas rats are killed, bounties should drop significantly on Guristas since they are culled dramatically and no longer as big a threat as before.
The problem with 'fluctuation' is that it can always be gamed one way or another. Which means that given enough power, you can screw others out of the game completely. And it also means that it can simply implode on itself. take for example bounties, skill books and blue loot.
Making bounties scalable would mean that there is a certain soft cap on the number of players the universe can support. More players farming bounties = less bounty for everyone. Yet a stable base income is important for every player.
Making skill book prices scale would mean that a.) During phases of high new player influx, prices for skill books in starting areas would rise significantly. No one profits from that, it only hurts retention rates, and it would mean that b.) players with much money could drain starting areas of skill books, increasing prices on some important skill books dramatically and therefore hurt the game badly.
So having prices fixed on some items isn't bad but instead simply serves to protect the sandbox and ensures that everyone at least get's a fighting chance and levels the playing field somewhat.
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7952
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 07:54:09 -
[17] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:Quote:The only fixed price I am able to accept is the Dogtags/ISK exchange. That is simply inconsequential. How would that be different from having either fixed bounties or the current blue loot system?
Dogtags would have more uses than bounties. at least 2 usues, modules or ISK. That means that demand for modules would compensate the ISK faucet. Self regulating system. Also, looting dogtags is different than CONCORD paying bounties to your wallet. Dogtags would have to be looted, and that means that thieves would like to get some from LvL 4 missions in High sec, that also means bait for carebears, some would attack and that means more destroyed modules and ships that you can otain in LP store.
As for buying from NPC, that is another story. I agree, that you have to get basic skills at the minimal price for new players, but the high end skills, that is another story, culd be dropped from exploration sites in null and low, or wormholes.
Technical Support
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1004
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 15:31:46 -
[18] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote:Greetings,
i'm sure there's a better term for them, but what i mean with "rat pelts" are items whose only purpose is to be sold to NPC vendors at a fixed price. Examples include ... frozen commodities. I simply may not have found other uses for some of those items
If you get rid of them, how am I supposed to feed my Exotic Dancers? They look a little thin as it is at the best of times, I really wouldn't like to risk letting them starve too long, they might start getting funny ideas about the Fedo, and there is no way I'm cleaning up the fallout from that sort of disaster.
You monster. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
395
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 16:24:20 -
[19] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Fixed prices are bad. Take blue loot for example. It adds a nice, subtle new challenge to the game. Instead of having bounties that get paid out (which would not make sense on sleepers anyways), you have to loot them and safely bring the loot out of the hole to a station with a vendor that buys them. This. Fixed price items which drop as loot are simply a bounty - but a bounty which can be stolen, destroyed...etc.
The OP's title actually alludes to that - a bounty on rats (the rodents) would be paid out on presentation of their tails to the right people - the easiest way to think of it is that those people buy rat tails at a fixed price. And, just like in EVE people came up with all sorts of ways to maximise their profit from such arrangements while minimising the work required.
Fixed Price Loot allows the game to provide additional rewards - tiers allow it to reward people for even partial clearance of Deadspace complexes, creating something like a checkpoint system. Electrum (and even copper) tags make that particular ship a little bit different from the others - Of sixteen Pithi Arrogators a couple of them have crews who've achieved a certain recognition in the Guristas organisation, they're a little more valuable to CONCORD as a result (if you can prove it was them by presenting their tags). |
Daerrol
Furtherance.
124
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 16:52:23 -
[20] - Quote
I like having the mix and think it's good. Rat Pelt items give us use for things like Trade skills to come into play in ways other than direct player to player trading. Yes it's a tiny tiny amount but it's still there, and I am all for skills influencing as much of the game as possible (gives more value to the skills, which is always good). That said I think the majority of ISK from PVE should come from bounties, which is does. So yes, system is good, keep it up +1. |
|
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
342
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 21:10:22 -
[21] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Fixed prices are bad.
Fixed prices are only bad for those who depend on them. Shame on you! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7958
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 16:23:19 -
[22] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Fixed prices are bad.
Fixed prices are only bad for those who depend on them. Shame on you!
Well, huge part of my income comes from modules dropped by comanders. I don't have to be ashamed. Some PI also for passive.
GëíGïüGëí Technical Support
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2208
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 17:01:55 -
[23] - Quote
It would be nice if these things had alternate uses so there was a player market for them with NPC buyers as a backup. |
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
51
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 19:46:56 -
[24] - Quote
Allright, concluding I just wanted to thank everyone who posted here for their contribution. It seems there are quite a few different aspects to the topic, many of which we were able to collate here. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1397
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:15:02 -
[25] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:Making bounties scalable would mean that there is a certain soft cap on the number of players the universe can support. More players farming bounties = less bounty for everyone. Yet a stable base income is important for every player .... or you can have a base value of 100 then a variance of +0 to +25% So, if you sit in the end of a pocket and keep farming you get the minimum but if you venture out into a travel route, have some more risk then you can get as much as +25% on your earning.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |