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Simon Kain
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:38:00 -
[1]
As a new player is it too late to start eve? People playing this game from the begining would seem to have a considerable skill advantage that a new player could never close the gap on due to the game mechanics. Is there a point at which the advantage starts to level off? Or should I even bother with this game. |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:39:00 -
[2]
You can special;ise into whatever you want, its never too late, just aim for what you enjoy doing and do it
Let's see who's standing at the end when the dust settle's |
Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:45:00 -
[3]
Imo it's never to late to start on eve. The main difference with eve and loads of other mmorpg games is that you keep on advancing in this game, but if you want to specialize within a certain catagory you will be able to master this alot faster than you imagine. This game is alot about player 'skills' and not just about the skill tree, so as a new player you would probably be able to kill loads and loads of 3 years old payer in pvp within a month or two, and that's just about how long it will take you to scratch the surface on the wonderful world of eve
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Admai Sket
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:48:00 -
[4]
I've been playing for donkies, but only in the past month have I trained soley for PvP stuff - and I'm already getting good!
--------- NEED A SIG PLEASE. |
RichThugster
Gallente Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:49:00 -
[5]
ive used a 12mil SP char before (spec'd in PVP) to solo ppl with better skills and (supposedly) better ships, its about skill, setup, and knowing when to fight and when to flee (or atleast PVP is)
Originally by: KIATolon
I just got owned
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Sahjahn
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:50:00 -
[6]
Nah it's never too late, it actually doesn't take very long (couple of weeks) to get to a stage where ya can do some of the interesting things in EvE.
The only thing you'll struggle at early on is PvP so just don't do it till ya think ya ready to.
Me personally within 3 days of starting my account i was flying round 0.0, within a week i was ratting in 0.3, 0.2 sec space in a Merlin and earning a healthy amount for myself, so ya can do the interesting things quickly.
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Benco97
Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Benco97 on 02/11/2006 10:56:27 never too late to join in, you can specialise in an area in a relatively short amount of time, there will be people with bigger ships and better guns but you'll be able to catch up because there is only so much SP they can invest in them before they need to start getting better at something else, you see? you would definately be able to beat me in combat very quickly and i've been here since the beginning.
Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:54:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/11/2006 10:54:11 Bah its never too late.
There's a limit to how much your skills can help you in a particular ship, first of all. Once you reach that limit, better skills can only make you more versatile (able to fly other ships well also), but nobody will EVER get better than you in that particular ship.
Second of all... skills are almost completely meaningless in most combat, which takes place in groups.
I can get 30 kills a day with a few hours a day in a trial account in low sec. You don't need skills to PvP.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Kidd Chaos
Gallente The Blackstone Group
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:56:00 -
[9]
As a newer player myself I will tell you yes people who have been playing a long time have a signifigant advantage as far as the skills their pilots will have. But no it is not to late to start this game. It is not going anywhere anytime soon so you are far from the last guy comming on the server.
As far as being able to compete with older pilots, it can be done. At first you are basically gimped trying to learn the game and getting your basic skills and just learning the interface itself. After a few weeks though if you are resourceful and a little lucky you can be playing a role in a market or major ship battle.
Really it's up to you how fast you become productive. It's not about catching up to other peoples skill point number. Having fun and being productive is when you level off with the vets.
Also make friends and join a corp that offers help. Playing solo and being new makes it even harder.
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laurozaura
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: laurozaura on 02/11/2006 10:56:49
Quote: As a new player is it too late to start eve
I would actually say the opposite, in fact in "my own personal" experience you may be slightly better off.
I have 2 characters, 1 started on the "1st day" of Eve and the other started recently.
Character 1
Very High Chrisma, which for the last 3.5 years has been a waste of time
Complete Jack of all trades, as the game progressed for frigates to cruisers to battleships, from Railguns being "the hot weapon" to Missiles, to "Projectiles alpha strike" ....... etc etc
Lots of skill points but spread around the entire spectrum
Character 2
Setup from scratch with Very High attributes almost a Caldari PvP learning Machine.
Flies the Flycatchers, Recons and Command ships ..... and whenever online instantly gets invited to every gang within 45 jumps. (it was the same when she was only a Interceptor pilot)
Its the little people that can make that difference, the tackler, the Interdictor, the Cloaked Scout.
Yes it may take 200 days to get into a Dreadnaught or Carrier but it has taken many 900+
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Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.02 10:58:00 -
[11]
Yes and no.
First things first. Skill points does not equal levels like in other MMOs where you have to be at a similar level to compete with that character. You may not ever close the gap between the amount of raw SPs between yourself and an older player, however you can close the gap between your abilities and an older players as you gain "real" experience with Eve and tbh this is how it should be. The older player has been playing Eve longer and paid more real life cash (via subs) to CCP for their characters development.
A character only a months old can take on and beat a 3 year vet (and not just in combat) by being playing smart and using every advantage they can find - don't let other folks tell you it isn't possible becuase it's happened plenty of times.
Secondly, thanks to the diminishing returns aspect of Eves skill system you can get many of your skills to a point where you are only a few % lower in any given aspect from the older player.
Eve skills work on a level system with levels 0 to 5. Level 0 is basically the same as you not having the skill. Level 5 is the highest it can be trained. Each level takes increasingly longer to train however the extra bonus increases in a linear fashion.
An example... Let's say you have a skill that gives you 5% extra damage to a turret. The training time to level 1 is only 5 minutes - total bonus: 5%. To level 2 it could be 20minutes - total bonus: 10%. To level 3 it could be 1 hour - total bonus: 15%. To level 4 it could be 4 hours - total bonus: 20%. To level 5 it could be 16 hours - total bonus: 25%.
As you can see it takes a good deal less time to train the skill up to level 4 than it does to do the final level, and yet the benefit is only a small 5% extra damage. Now while the values in this example are more or less made up this increase is infact true for every skill. The level 5 training is always longer than the first 4 levels.
Hopefully with this you can see that while older players have a huge amount of SP compared to you the majority of it and their training has gone into this final level of training that only gives a few extra percent here and there. Does it confer an advantage for the older player? Of course it does (but not a large one) and I'd be hard pressed to find a good reason why an old player can't have an advantage over a new starter (what is "fair" depends purely on your point of view).
Finally, there are many modules (especially in the tech 2 branches) that do require skills to be trained to level 5 in order for you to access the higher tech modules, however specialising in one area first and branching out minimizes the impact of this.
Anyway I've blabbered on enough. Welcome to Eve, prepare to be challenged.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Essential 12939
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:09:00 -
[12]
Forget about industry and science. That was never "Eve" in the first place, and the way those mechanics work, you'll not be competing with anybody for 18 months, and even then you'll be another 18 months behind the fore runners, but the scale isn't linear, you will be catching up, but you will ALWAYS be catching up.
Just find something (quickly) you enjoy doing, and train for that, you can get to a reasonable PvP competitive position within a single 90 day time code, assess the parts of the game you're interested in and decide whether to continue.
Keep hearing plenty about Kali, and it almost sounds as though it'll balance some things for newer players, but I wouldn't anticipate anything more than a token gesture...
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Simon Kain
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:13:00 -
[13]
Well thanks for all the encouragement. Being new this game is a bit overwhelming. I have gotten so used to picking classes and having levels and such with EQ and then WoW that hold your hand through the game. It hasn't been since my UO days that I had such open character development.
I see what you are all saying about the skills. So once you max out a certain tree then it comes down to who is the better player since the skills are essentially equal. |
Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Simon Kain
I see what you are all saying about the skills. So once you max out a certain tree then it comes down to who is the better player since the skills are essentially equal.
Even before that. Skills give an advantage in a fight, but are rarely a deciding factor. Instead strategy, tactics, setups and numbers play far far bigger roles in pvp.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Gretchen Dawntreader
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:30:00 -
[15]
There's a lot you can do. You can for instance decide to get rich, and start mining and building things. Then you are really only competing financially and it doesn't really matter if you have guided missile precision 5 or not.
...of course while you are getting rich you can be training to fly the ships that being rich allows you to buy...and wealth allows you to take risks that would be devastating to someone with no game cash to spare. Blow up my battleship? Pfft, got 20 more in hangar.
A lot of people will look for pvp mostly but I've been playing pve and industry and having fun. I have yet to fire on another player in anger in 15 months? I forget how long I've played.
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Bambi
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Simon Kain Well thanks for all the encouragement. Being new this game is a bit overwhelming. quote]
If you want any help in-game later on today, gimmie a yell in game. Do a character search for Bambi and mail meor start a conversation.
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
EVE-Log
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:43:00 -
[17]
It's never too late to start in EVE. 2 reasons: Skillpoint curves - a level 4 skill takes 20% of the skill training of a level 5. A level 5 skill is also a maximum. (although I will whinge a bit about there being far too many L5 prereqs these days).
The other thing of course, is the major factor in EVE are soft skills. Your SPs affect what you can fly, and what your dps is, but those really are only marginal factors in serious PvP engagements. They guy in a rifter is as much a threat if it's a 1mil sp newbie as a 50mil sp vet - the threat comes from what the ship's doing, not how OMG uber DPS it does.
Lastly, EVE is persistent and emergent. That makes politics and relationships really crucial. I'm kinda involved in alliance and corporate operations and politics. I've lead combat gangs. These things have used ... well ok, I do have corp management 5, which is a week of training. But that's about it.
Likewise market and manufacturing don't actually require all that many skillpoints to be effective. It probably helps to have reasonable skills, and being able to fly frighters can be handy, but it's far from vital.
EVE is a beautiful game. The 50mil sp vet will probably win if you go toe to toe in a similar ship. Catch him out though, and he'll die like any other.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 11:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Simon Kain
I see what you are all saying about the skills. So once you max out a certain tree then it comes down to who is the better player since the skills are essentially equal.
Even before that. Skills give an advantage in a fight, but are rarely a deciding factor. Instead strategy, tactics, setups and numbers play far far bigger roles in pvp.
A level 4 skill takes 20% of the sps of a level 5. The difference isn't much. 20% vs. 25%. It's enough to give an edge, it's not enough to make them unbeatable.
Chances are the veterans you meet out there can fly quite a lot of ships fairly well. Your portfolio will be smaller at first, but that's about it.
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Kamikazi BOB
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Posted - 2006.11.02 12:21:00 -
[19]
there is always someone better then u no matter if ur 3 years or 3 hours old.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 12:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Simon Kain People playing this game from the begining would seem to have a considerable skill advantage that a new player could never close the gap on due to the game mechanics. Is there a point at which the advantage starts to level off?
Everybody who asks this question states (correctly) that vets have a skill point advantage, but never state any situation where this actually matters.
It will never level off. Older characters have more skill points, and younger ones have fewer.
An excellent (IMHO) multiplayer game in which everyone is equal can be found here.
\o/ ----------
IBTL \o/ |
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Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:12:00 -
[21]
It's nerver too late. [Instert reason started above here]
Just learn about the game. What all the ships do, and how they're used. Then pick one, and train for it. Skills really just let you fly more ships, and maybe fly them moderately better numberwise. Tactics, knowledge, and preperation will far outweigh skills.
This may be a bit too nerdy, but look at batman. He's got basically no SP (super powers/skill points) but he still take out people as nasty as superman, who relies only on his SPs.
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.02 13:45:00 -
[22]
Join and stay, for reasons listed above.
That, and if you hang around long enough, you can see yourself becoming the "middle management" of EVE so to speak, between the uber vets and the newest newb on the game. Kind of like aging IRL .
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Vanlade
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Simon Kain As a new player is it too late to start eve? People playing this game from the begining would seem to have a considerable skill advantage that a new player could never close the gap on due to the game mechanics. Is there a point at which the advantage starts to level off? Or should I even bother with this game.
Start now, and in 3 years from now new players from 2009 will see you as a veteran and bow.
- Vanlade
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:29:00 -
[24]
The skill system is only about 2-3 months deep in most fields. It's very wide, though. That is, you can specialise in something and be as good as anyone else in 2-3 months but when you've been around a long time like the older players, you can just do more things. For example, I can fly HACs, T2 frigs, BS, Stealth bombers, covert ops frigates and dreadnoughts but I would obviously only be able to use one of those at any time. At any one time, I am using less than 1/20th of my skillpoints.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Suze'Rain
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:39:00 -
[25]
it's absolutely not too late. a new player can be toe-to toe with a 3 year vet in anything they choose within 3 months. you can be making a difference in groups within 3 days.
remember that a 40m SP character might only be using 3-4m of relevant skills in any one ship, while you are using 100% of your skills to match him/her.
it's never "too late"
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.02 16:01:00 -
[26]
The thing about Eve is that you aren't really competing against other players because there is no "end game" and no "win condition". You play to have fun and whilst I only have fun seeing a million Isk arrive in my wallet you will have as much fun seeing 10k arrive. It's all relative and as a noob your expectations will be lower to match the rewards. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
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