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Nemerian Katelo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.24 01:15:27 -
[1] - Quote
I'm interested in trying out FW but I'm only invested in Caldari tech. Is there any point in me doing FW atm since IIRC T3 dessies can gain access to small sites? and since Caldari T3 dessy isnt out yet, my Assault Frig would not be able to content with the Sivpul or Confessor.
Or am I completely wrong? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7907
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Posted - 2015.04.24 01:44:13 -
[2] - Quote
Like any other racial ship line, there ARE Caldari ships that can be used well and effectively... even against Tech 3 Destroyers (which, while overpowered, CAN be killed with the right tactics). I have personally seen some incredible things done with a Harpy and Hawk (<3 my Hawk).
Also... the Confessor and Svipul are going to get whacked with the nerf bat (lower PG and CPU and some other tweaks to mass and agility... look for it the Features and Ideas forum)
How did you start?
The SP System
IFW
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Nemerian Katelo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.24 01:59:03 -
[3] - Quote
So I shouldn't bother until the current T3s are nerfed. Alright. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7907
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Posted - 2015.04.24 03:06:44 -
[4] - Quote
DO IT ANYWAYS!
Jeezus... the experience of learning how to survive is probably the most important lesson Faction Warfare (or low-sec in general) can teach you.
To not even try sometjing because you cannot fly "the best equipment" is dumb because...
- if you don't know what you are doing in the first place (which you learn by trying and dying in cheaper equipment) you will easily die to those that DO.
- what is "the best" is fluid and dynamic... and is always subject to nerfs, buffs and player-run meta. Don't wait or chase FoTM. You'll have more FUN and less teeth gnashing if you don't.
- you will miss out on the opportunities that you might have had if you were in a ship that seemed more easily gankable... conversely, you may have more issues from others running around in a "shiny ship"
How did you start?
The SP System
IFW
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1043
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Posted - 2015.04.24 04:32:28 -
[5] - Quote
Nemerian Katelo wrote:So I shouldn't bother until the current T3s are nerfed. Alright. Just avoid them. It's not hard. When people are denied fights they either go somewhere else or ship into something you are willing to fight. In a frigate you really shouldn't get caught by anyone you don't want to fight.
If that's your main concern, just fly t1 frigs and stick to novice plexes. The Condor, Kestrel, and Hookbill are all great ships and give you a range of tactical options. It's a good idea to fly cheap until you feel comfortable picking fights anyway.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3595
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Posted - 2015.04.24 05:30:16 -
[6] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:DO IT ANYWAYS!
This.
As Cara mentioned, it's extremely easy to avoid fights in FW space unless/until you make a silly mistake. As long as you're using your directional scanner, checking if there's anything inside a site before warping to it, or watching the 360 degree 'shortscan' (1 au or minimum range) you should know what you're going to fight most of the time. The way FW plexes work means that if you're defending one, you should never get caught by someone if you're careful and paying attention.
Another thing to keep in mind is that, sure you or your enemy can fly an 'OP' ship all the time. But if you can't actually get any fights in it, what's the point? Especially true in FW as I said since it's so easy to pick your battles. If I'm sitting in a small plex waiting for a fight I think I can take, and see a Svipul on shortscan, I'm out of there. Seeing that, the Svipul pilot may 'ship down' into something I would perceive as a more 'engage-able' ship, say another T1 frigate or something else.
FW space is a great place to get your feet wet in PVP, buy 10 t1 frigates including fittings and go for it. If you already have spacefriends, drag them down there with you and have fun. If not, go make some in FW.
Here is a fit Cara sent me a while ago that should serve you well. It uses a tactic called 'scram kiting'. You're going to want to shoot at other close range brawlers, like blaster ships, and then orbit them just at the edge of your warp scrambler's range 7 - 9 km. Make sure you have both Webs activated, this ship is slow, so it relies on making the enemy even slower. Another added bonus is that the webs mean you'll apply your rocket damage much better (missile mechanics; look at the bottom).
[Kestrel, Armor 2x Web copy]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II
1MN Afterburner II X5 Prototype Engine Enervator X5 Prototype Engine Enervator J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
If you're having trouble fitting this, grab items with a lower meta level. An experimental AB uses 1 less PG which should help depending on skill level. You could switch out 1 of the resistance rigs for another Small Ancillary Current Router I if necessary.
Keep in mind this fit is a bit unorthodox, you don't usually see many Armor tanked Caldari ships, but the surprise factor can give you an edge.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
96
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Posted - 2015.04.24 05:54:21 -
[7] - Quote
Also, the kestrel can take you further in solo pvp with low skills than something like a punisher.
http://crossingzebras.com/theorycrafting-the-new-svipul/
Expect to lose to OP T3, but try to learn something each time. What can you do different? What would crush the same scenario with the same two ships going at it? What could they do that would crush that? e3tc
The thing others mentioned was the way to deny people fights until they get into something you will fight, which is kinda a dumb way for CCP to let players manage balance rather than do the work themselves.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Kira Kerasi
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.04.24 06:46:55 -
[8] - Quote
Make 2 or 3 of each ship and go sit in plexes with them hoping for lp and fights. If you worry too much about losing ships you'll get into a bad habit of never taking pvp unless you KNOW you can win, which won't be that often and burn yourself out in solo boredom.
You'll get good enough with dscan that you'll quickly be able to choose if you want to sit for a brawl, get into kite range, align out to a safe, play warp games to spread out or discourage attackers, etc. You'll also learn more about pvp than a lot of others who are too worried about losing a 9mil fitting that could be bought 5 times over with a couple hours missions, scanning, ratting, or marketing
Don't let the 1up mentality of eft theory crafting get to you, it's a disease in Eve and the reason why only a small percentage solo while the rest sit waiting for a fc to tell them to undock.
Take the plunge, risk it all, forget lame kill boards, learn as much as possible, have fun with it!
FW gangs are OK too, I enjoyed the few I spent time with, though mostly they only were in FW for the war targets.
Please, never stabb up and turn into a LP farmer. They are one of the lowest forms of life in New Eden |
Nemerian Katelo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:23:07 -
[9] - Quote
I was mainly just wanting to confirm is T3 dessies can enter novice sites and since the Caldari Jackdaw isnt out yet there would be little point trying to fight the Confessor or Sivpul in the Hawk I can fly. =D
I'll perhaps give FW a try when the Jackdaw is released. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
510
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:44:40 -
[10] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:DO IT ANYWAYS!
The "I must be max level" or "I must have best in slot" or "what is the FotM" ideas that come from other MMOs belong in those other MMOs. Eve is not a game about one specific linear playstyle. The sooner you can purge those ideas from your head the better off you will be in Eve.
I came to eve from wow and It took me a long time to get over that "what's the best ship ( or best race etc... ) for X, Y, and Z?" mindset. After I did I realized how much it was holding me back. A lot of people come from other MMOs where they have been taught they are their gear and you get focused on ships and skill points. As you learn the game you realize that it's knowlege not gear or skill points that matter in this game. Then you go reroll a new toon and realize how the game seemed hard early due to your ignorance and not lack of SP or "gear". |
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
510
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:52:07 -
[11] - Quote
Nemerian Katelo wrote:I was mainly just wanting to confirm is T3 dessies can enter novice sites and since the Caldari Jackdaw isnt out yet there would be little point trying to fight the Confessor or Sivpul in the Hawk I can fly. =D
I'll perhaps give FW a try when the Jackdaw is released. This mindset is so anit-eve I just can't even put it into words. Eve is about doing more with less. If you are waiting around for skills to train or the right ship to be released then you are playing eve wrong and I'll be the first person to tell you that there is no wrong way to play eve but waiting is not playing.
Also I don't recommend that newer players specialize. Train different races and weapon systems to low levels and try out different stuff. Then skill up what you like. Everyone is different but my guess is that you'd be better served by trying out other race's ships than focusing on caldari having tried nothing else.
To enjoy and be good at Eve I feel one needs to come to it with an open mind and let go most of what other games have taught you.
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1048
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Posted - 2015.04.24 15:18:48 -
[12] - Quote
Nemerian Katelo wrote:I'll perhaps give FW a try when the Jackdaw is released. I predict you will lose it within thirty minutes to 1-3 t1 frigates.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Nemerian Katelo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.24 18:48:06 -
[13] - Quote
@Cara Forelli Perhaps but atleast the Jackdaw will stand a greater chance of beating the other races t3 dessies then an assault frig would 1v1.
@ergherhdfgh I decided to specialize since eve is all about time and since it takes an ungodly amount of time to gain the skills needed to do anything half decent, in my mind its just better to do it that way. After I've maxed out the skills I'm intending on using I will then look to other areas of the game, right now my sole aim is for Missiles and Caldari ships then I will look to Drones. Specialization imo is a good thing, because what I do end up flying will stand a better chance of winning then if I was to fly something I was only partly skilled into. Eve is a game all about numbers afterall right?
I also understand that ships in eve are meant to be lost at certain points but I'm not the sort of player to just throw away ships to come to the conclusion the ships I'm being suggested to fly are not upto par with what I expect alot of other players to be flying. In Novices I would expect to see faction, t2 frigs and t3 dessies, the only time I would expect to see anyone flying t1 is when they are just lp farming in a throw away ship or are in a group of players flying together to overwhelm someone like me.
To me if I was to go out I'd just be easy pickings from any group that's flying together so unless its a 1v1 fight I'm not interested in staying around. |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3603
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:25:10 -
[14] - Quote
Nemerian Katelo wrote:@Cara Forelli Perhaps but atleast the Jackdaw will stand a greater chance of beating the other races t3 dessies then an assault frig would 1v1.
@ergherhdfgh I decided to specialize since eve is all about time and since it takes an ungodly amount of time to gain the skills needed to do anything half decent, in my mind its just better to do it that way. After I've maxed out the skills I'm intending on using I will then look to other areas of the game, right now my sole aim is for Missiles and Caldari ships then I will look to Drones. Specialization imo is a good thing, because what I do end up flying will stand a better chance of winning then if I was to fly something I was only partly skilled into. Eve is a game all about numbers afterall right?
I also understand that ships in eve are meant to be lost at certain points but I'm not the sort of player to just throw away ships to come to the conclusion the ships I'm being suggested to fly are not upto par with what I expect alot of other players to be flying. In Novices I would expect to see faction, t2 frigs and t3 dessies, the only time I would expect to see anyone flying t1 is when they are just lp farming in a throw away ship or are in a group of players flying together to overwhelm someone like me.
To me if I was to go out I'd just be easy pickings from any group that's flying together so unless its a 1v1 fight I'm not interested in staying around. If you've made up your mind already, why ask for advice? If you're looking for a vet to come along and tell you "yeah definitely use a Jackdaw to learn to PvP" you're not going to get it unless:
a. said vet wants to see you blow up in a shiny ship you have no business pvping in. b. said 'vet' is a moron.
EVE PvP is not just about numbers, it's about leveraging your 'numbers' into a position to **** up the other guy's 'numbers'.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1051
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:32:07 -
[15] - Quote
Nemerian Katelo wrote: In Novices I would expect to see faction, t2 frigs and t3 dessies, the only time I would expect to see anyone flying t1 is when they are just lp farming in a throw away ship or are in a group of players flying together to overwhelm someone like me. Small and novice are not the same. Novice plex only allow faction and t1 frigs - no t2 frigs or destroyers of any type. Small allow any frig or destroyer.
And in any case, it's just not true. Sure, svipuls are popular at the moment. But there's always an abundance of people in FW space flying t1 frigs, either because they are cheap, easy to fly (SP wise!), or just because they like them. I can fly all the t2 frigs but I still fly t1 ships often, because they are fun. More expensive isn't necessarily better either. I have killed a Garmur with an Atron. I've killed a Daredevil with a Breacher. I've killed a Harpy with a Kestrel. And I'm pretty bad. If I can do it, anyone can.
Don't forget that EVE is basically just a game of rock paper scissors. Frigates are the natural prey of destroyers. It's not surprising that the T3Ds are pretty good at killing frigates. Are they a little OP? Yes, that's why they are getting nerfed. They are winning a little too hard against what should be their natural predator - cruisers. But there's always going to be a counter to what you bring to the field, no matter how balanced the game is. That's where picking your engagements carefully comes in, which is something you only learn through experience (hence the general advice to do this in a cheap fashion when starting out).
In the end, it's a game and you can do whatever you like. I do hope you get involved in some pewing very soon.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3801
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Posted - 2015.04.25 00:22:14 -
[16] - Quote
Nemerian Katelo wrote:@Cara Forelli Perhaps but atleast the Jackdaw will stand a greater chance of beating the other races t3 dessies then an assault frig would 1v1 To be honest and assuming you have no PVP experience yet: anything you fly solo will have an extremely slim chance of surviving, period.
If you fly something relatively expensive such as a t3 dessy, your chances drop from slim to zero.
My 2 cents is the usual: start with t1 frigates, be prepared to lose plenty (as in: dozens) as you learn. At least you won't have the whole constellation hunting you (believe me, a newbro in a t3 will attract dirty pirates like moths to a flame).
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
98
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Posted - 2015.04.25 01:13:04 -
[17] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:DO IT ANYWAYS!
The "I must be max level" or "I must have best in slot" or "what is the FotM" ideas that come from other MMOs belong in those other MMOs. Eve is not a game about one specific linear playstyle. The sooner you can purge those ideas from your head the better off you will be in Eve. I came to eve from wow and It took me a long time to get over that "what's the best ship ( or best race etc... ) for X, Y, and Z?" mindset. After I did I realized how much it was holding me back. A lot of people come from other MMOs where they have been taught they are their gear and you get focused on ships and skill points. As you learn the game you realize that it's knowlege not gear or skill points that matter in this game. Then you go reroll a new toon and realize how the game seemed hard early due to your ignorance and not lack of SP or "gear".
Well, to be perfectly fair, even EveIsEasy says to get T2 guns, and if you show up in FW space with T1 guns everyone and their mom tells you "why no T2?", because better tech is in fact more powerful. Lets not be deluding ourselves.
Show me some good pvper who have full Tech1 lower meta stuff and successfully solo, on youtube, and we'll be able to have a better discussion. As is, T2 is simply better. You can't even break small FW plex tank with T1 missiles and high caldari frigate skill.
EFT, dual light pulse laser 1 with non-faction multifrequency S, all skills 0 = 9 dps. same all skills 5 = 18 dps.
DPL II all skills 0 = 11 dps. all skills 5 = 23 dps.
We know that turrets require at least turret 1 to use, and that tech 2 requires speccing to use, but the point is to draw attention to the power difference between a newbie and someone with all those skills high up. You bet skill points matter in PvP.
its not even worth it to get into a long discussion about all the minor benefits of both skills and tech 2 gear. If it didn't matter, vets would be running alts or trial accounts to go play in frigates in FW instead of having whined about losing 20 mil isk for being podded (because apparently vets suck at warping pods away), thus getting clone costs nerfed entirely out of the game.
That complaint would've never been an issue is skill points and modules and ships didnt matter "enough".
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
512
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Posted - 2015.04.25 04:17:17 -
[18] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote: Well, to be perfectly fair, even EveIsEasy says to get T2 guns, and if you show up in FW space with T1 guns everyone and their mom tells you "why no T2?", because better tech is in fact more powerful. Lets not be deluding ourselves.
So your argument is don't do what's smart because the kids on the playground will make fun of you?
13kr1d1 wrote: Show me some good pvper who have full Tech1 lower meta stuff and successfully solo, on youtube, and we'll be able to have a better discussion.
A new player will not win solo PvP against and experienced player. Skill points and T2 mods won't matter. However loosing 100 real cheap fit low meta ships will gain you a lot more experience and therefore make you a much better PvPer than not PvPing and waiting for skills to train. Further it will make you a better PvPer than loosing 10 more expensive fit ships. Flying a loosing more and cheaper fit ships early on is just better advice for a newer player. Maybe if they player has no issue buying as many PLEX as was needed to loose T3 ships all day you might have a point.
The youtube PvP guys that your are talking about first off are experienced Eve players secondly they almost always have off grid booster and are typically flying very expensive fit ship with expensive clones and boost and all the works. They are looking to make an enjoyable to watch video not effectively learn how to PvP. Also those guys won't post their failures in most cases you only see the good ones. So I'd not assume the videos that they post are at all indicative of their average day in Eve. That would be like watching a movie and assuming from that, that you now had some understanding of what the average day in the life of one of the actors was.
Further to try and pretend like the solo pwnage vids on youtube are at all indicative of the average PvP experience or that most new players even do lots of solo PvP is just flat out misleading. Most new players start off PvPing in fleets. As a matter of fact PvP in eve is not regulated, there is no 3 v 3 arena matches that put players of the same level and similar gear against each other. You are almost always mixing players of varying skill points and varying ship types and varying numbers against each other. Surprise butt sex and blob warfare are what's on the menu in eve.
In general I think it's a joke for you to use an example of a youtube vid from a profession solo PvPer as something that a new player should do. I doubt those professional youtubers started out solo roaming in Billion isk set ups.
13kr1d1 wrote: We know that turrets require at least turret 1 to use, and that tech 2 requires speccing to use, but the point is to draw attention to the power difference between a newbie and someone with all those skills high up. You bet skill points matter in PvP.
I'm not saying that skill points do nothing for you. What I am saying is that skill points < game knowledge and he is better served loosing more ships and learning than not loosing ships because he's waiting for skills to train or waiting for a better ship to come out.
13kr1d1 wrote: its not even worth it to get into a long discussion about all the minor benefits of both skills and tech 2 gear. If it didn't matter, vets would be running alts or trial accounts to go play in frigates in FW instead of having whined about losing 20 mil isk for being podded (because apparently vets suck at warping pods away), thus getting clone costs nerfed entirely out of the game.
That complaint would've never been an issue is skill points and modules and ships didnt matter "enough".
tl;dr roll a new "toon" and pvp with tech 1 modules and in FW and show us your words have meaning.
I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here.
Plenty of vets have rolled new toons and done very well in PvP with low skill point toons.
As far as getting pods out you seem to be forgetting about interdiction spheres a.k.a. warp bubbles. And clone cost is a factor as a matter of fact cost is one of the main factors in Eve. That is why I am telling a new player to fly cheap and why when they removed the clone upgrade costs that PvP went up in null sec. Cost is a HUGE factor in Eve. The main PvP stat in Eve is isk lost versus isk destroyed. I'm not sure where you get that cost is not a factor but it's not true and I never even implied it.
With regards to cost and your precious tech 2 mods I would say a new player is much better fighting in low meta (read that cheap ) weapons that fighting with T2 weapons that he can't afford to loose. Screw EFT look at the cost difference of loosing a fully insured low meta ship versus a fully insured fully T2 fit ship and then tell me how you expect a new player to get any experience loosing ships that he can not afford to loose?
As far as me doing FW, I don't PvP. On that note I have well over 100 million skill points. Give a brand new player a month and 100 cheap ships to loose and then put me up against him in his 101st cheap ship and me in a fully T2 fit ship and I can pretty much guarantee that I won't win as I have zero experience. One that same note give a brand new player an all level 5 toon and an experienced PvP pilot a month old toon and the experienced pilot will win almost every time. You don't have to take my word for this, the blogs of the vets that have rerolled and the forum tears of the new players that bought high SP toons are all over if you care to look.
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Snuggle Society The Marmite Collective
1651
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Posted - 2015.04.25 04:26:27 -
[19] - Quote
Nemerian Katelo wrote:I was mainly just wanting to confirm is T3 dessies can enter novice sites and since the Caldari Jackdaw isnt out yet there would be little point trying to fight the Confessor or Sivpul in the Hawk I can fly. =D
I'll perhaps give FW a try when the Jackdaw is released. Uh, t3 dessies cannot enter novice sites... I don't even want to touch the rest of the idiocy in this thread. Thanks for doing it for me ergherhdfgh.
New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC.
Contact me for a free consultation.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3617
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Posted - 2015.04.25 05:27:20 -
[20] - Quote
I switched on to my alt just so I could like this twice.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
102
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Posted - 2015.04.26 05:51:42 -
[21] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: wall of useless.
T2 is what you want to use as soon as possible, at least in weapons, due to the fact that when you fit a ship and it fails because its T1, you can wrongly believe the fit is bad rather than the fact that stats and skillpoints do, in fact, matter.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
518
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Posted - 2015.04.26 14:04:27 -
[22] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: wall of useless.
T2 is what you want to use as soon as possible, at least in weapons, due to the fact that when you fit a ship and it fails because its T1, you can wrongly believe the fit is bad rather than the fact that stats and skillpoints do, in fact, matter. I'm not a PvPer and will not claim to be a PvP expert. However it does not take a rocket surgeon to know that experience is your best teacher and the more experience that you get the better of a pilot you will become.
When you blow up in this game you should not be looking to assess blame but rather seek out learning from the experience. Go watch some Rooks and Kings videos. Do you think that those guys got to where they are by playing the blame game after each loss? I doubt it. More likely they kept putting themselves into progressively more and more difficult situations and after each win probably found a way to stack the odds even less in their favor because there is not much learning or growth in a win. If you suck and want to be good or are good and want to be better you don't look for easy wins you look for close losses meaning fights that you lost but were close to winning.
The simple fact remains that while better stats might improve you chances of winning in a given situation that the tougher the situations that you put yourself into the more you will learn. So even an experienced PvP pilot would be better served flying cheaper fit ships from a learning stand point. He would become a better pilot flying cheaper fit ships. Now that might not help his killboard stats but it will improve his skill and knowledge.
If new players were to listen to your advice then they would not play until they were all level 5 skills for the ship that they were flying and then they would only fly officer fit rare Alliance tournament rewards ships.
I stick by what I said earlier that if you want to learn how to PvP in this game then get out there and do it and do it a lot. If your dad is Bill Gates and you can buy as many PLEXs as you want then PvP in as expensive of ship as you want but if you are fitting T2 guns and that causes you to only be able to loose 3 ships this week instead of 10 ships today then you are not helping yourself.
Also if you notice my post was 'thumbsed up" by multiple PvP pilots so it's not just my perspective which is one that comes from an admitted lack of experience.
This is not a game like WoW where they have PvP that is strictly balanced where you have a set number of players of the same level and similar "gear" going against each other where little differences in stats can be the difference between winning and loosing. In that game you will never see a level 100 toon loose to a level 5 toon. In Eve everything is situational and player knowledge and skill is far more important than any character or "gear" stats.
You are giving bad advice to new players and propagating a perspective that comes from other games that we vets have a hard enough time as it is teaching new players to get over without you making it worse. This advice that you give might be good advice for someone fighting sov warfare or making youtube videos ( but then they would already know that ) however this is terrible advice for new players looking to learn the game and this is the New Character Q&A section of the forum.
Further the title of the post was about FW and if you are looking at faction warfare from a win / loss stand point then yes fit all T2 but if you are looking at it from an isk lost versus LP gained stand point then your advice might not be so good. So instead of arguing with me why you can't win without T2 please try and think about what advice would help a new player looking to learn the game. |
Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1051
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Posted - 2015.04.26 17:19:01 -
[23] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: wall of useless.
T2 is what you want to use as soon as possible, at least in weapons, due to the fact that when you fit a ship and it fails because its T1, you can wrongly believe the fit is bad rather than the fact that stats and skillpoints do, in fact, matter. You both have decent points here. Yes, t2 weapons are a good priority for a new player because they have the highest immediate impact on your damage output. However paper DPS isn't everything and when you have low skills you learn to accomplish your goal through other means. Range, tracking, speed, ewar, cap warfare, and damage mitigation all have just as high an impact if exploited correctly. Not having t2 is NOT a good excuse to sit in the station when you could be out learning all these valuable lessons just as easily in a t1 fit.
I once killed a Daredevil in a Breacher using only a single launcher, for a pitiful amount of DPS. I could easily have killed him using a t1 launcher because I used my other high slots to neut him out completely so he couldn't do anything. Instead of using your t1 fitting as an excuse for losing, ask yourself what "wildcard" you can throw in to win anyway. Yes, as a new player with limited experience you are going to lose often, but each loss should teach you something. If you shrug it off as "they had a better fit" you are cheating yourself out of a learning experience and will surely die to a neut breacher with 30 dps when you undock your first t2 ship.
ergherhdfgh wrote:I'm not a PvPer and will not claim to be a PvP expert. I think you know enough to give it a shot.
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