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Pippinpaddleopsicopolis Padocain
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2015.04.24 18:38:34 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone,
with the new structure system detailed in this devblog entry, there will be new anchoring skills, see here: pic 1 pic2 And other pictures in the blog.
Assuming the attribute system is not removed until release of these skills, I would like to suggest that the current attribute set-up of Anchoring and Starbase Defence Management not be used for these new skills.
Instead, they should use Intelligence and Memory as primary or secondary attributes, but not charisma, which should be limited to actual corp management and leadership skills.
Additionally, the new skills should be placed in a new category.
o7, Pip
PS CCPlz, no more charisma remaps
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1346
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Posted - 2015.04.24 18:45:29 -
[2] - Quote
If it's a corporation management related skill, which it most likely is similar to Anchoring and Starbase Defense Management as the skills concern Corporation-owned assets, Charisma is only natural as an attribute for it. What's the problem with Charisma? Why remap? There is no need for remaps, you just train a little bit slower. Is there a problem with that?
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Anhenka
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
1482
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Posted - 2015.04.24 18:47:37 -
[3] - Quote
I'd say the exact opposite.
Charisma is considered a dump stat because so few skills use it.
The solution to it being a dump stat is not to make sure that no skills use it, it's to make more skills use it and thus make it less of a dump stat. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
564
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Posted - 2015.04.24 18:50:04 -
[4] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I'd say the exact opposite.
Charisma is considered a dump stat because so few skills use it.
The solution to it being a dump stat is not to make sure that no skills use it, it's to make more skills use it and thus make it less of a dump stat. I almost want to see command ship and industrial command ship moved over to charisma/int.
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Pippinpaddleopsicopolis Padocain
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2015.04.24 20:09:40 -
[5] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I'd say the exact opposite.
Charisma is considered a dump stat because so few skills use it.
The solution to it being a dump stat is not to make sure that no skills use it, it's to make more skills use it and thus make it less of a dump stat.
Looking at the dev post, it says that the way structures are managed will be changed. That would make it logical to put the skills in a new category.
But if it is going to be handled the way you say, I agree that it would make charisma less of a "useless" stat and that my suggestion would not be sound then.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
96
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Posted - 2015.04.24 22:47:54 -
[6] - Quote
Hey baby, I love your scaffolding, would you unfurl for me? I got a high charisma level ya know. Oh, thats it, you're gonna pump out some advanced ships now (wink wink).
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
417
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Posted - 2015.04.24 23:01:51 -
[7] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I'd say the exact opposite.
Charisma is considered a dump stat because so few skills use it.
The solution to it being a dump stat is not to make sure that no skills use it, it's to make more skills use it and thus make it less of a dump stat.
This, what OP is basically saying is that he feels Charisma is worthless, which isn't a good reason to move structure skills to a different attribute. If anything it's a flaw in the attribute system and the distribution of skills by attribute. |
Pippinpaddleopsicopolis Padocain
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2015.04.25 16:02:38 -
[8] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Hey baby, I love your scaffolding, would you unfurl for me? I got a high charisma level ya know. Oh, thats it, you're gonna pump out some advanced ships now (wink wink).
This right here.
You wouldn't use an off-grid booster or corp management alt for managing structures. Using Charisma for that makes no sense.
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
419
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Posted - 2015.04.26 01:04:42 -
[9] - Quote
Pippinpaddleopsicopolis Padocain wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Hey baby, I love your scaffolding, would you unfurl for me? I got a high charisma level ya know. Oh, thats it, you're gonna pump out some advanced ships now (wink wink). This right here. You wouldn't use an off-grid booster or corp management alt for managing structures. Using Charisma for that makes no sense.
Charisma originally made sense because you had to work out the rights to anchor something in someone else's space. The structure system however has pretty much had the last bits of this removed with the removal of faction status as a limiter on POS anchoring.
I'd rather see the attribute system reworked or removed than see Charisma made even more worthless, making the remaps where you do need to train into it even more painful due to lack of stuff to train. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2079
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Posted - 2015.04.26 01:07:35 -
[10] - Quote
The correct solution actually is to just remove attributes to stop these issues.
However if we keep attributes, they should be charisma to make it worth more. |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
931
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Posted - 2015.04.26 02:23:06 -
[11] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:The correct solution actually is to just remove attributes to stop these issues.
However if we keep attributes, they should be charisma to make it worth more.
Totally agree.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12796
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Posted - 2015.04.26 02:27:06 -
[12] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I'd say the exact opposite.
Charisma is considered a dump stat because so few skills use it.
The solution to it being a dump stat is not to make sure that no skills use it, it's to make more skills use it and thus make it less of a dump stat.
Exactly this. There needs to be a reason to have Charisma for things that aren't mission running.
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Pippinpaddleopsicopolis Padocain
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2015.04.26 12:00:34 -
[13] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anhenka wrote:I'd say the exact opposite.
Charisma is considered a dump stat because so few skills use it.
The solution to it being a dump stat is not to make sure that no skills use it, it's to make more skills use it and thus make it less of a dump stat. Exactly this. There needs to be a reason to have Charisma for things that aren't mission running.
At the moment, charisma is needed for leadership boosting and corp management, too. It's not completely useless, though I agree that it could be more useful. My concern is that, if the horrible attribute system will be kept, it should at least make sense. A char used for structure management doesn't need the other skills dependant on charisma. That's the issue.
Nevyn Auscent wrote: The correct solution actually is to just remove attributes to stop these issues.
However if we keep attributes, they should be charisma to make it worth more.
That would be the ideal solution. But I doubt it will happen any time soon. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
616
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Posted - 2015.04.26 12:15:29 -
[14] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:If it's a corporation management related skill, which it most likely is similar to Anchoring and Starbase Defense Management as the skills concern Corporation-owned assets, Charisma is only natural as an attribute for it. What's the problem with Charisma? Why remap? There is no need for remaps, you just train a little bit slower. Is there a problem with that?
Charisma is always the first to go for the min/maxers.
I know I do in bethesda games like fallout 3/NV lol.
Like you said this falls under corp management, char determined skills lay here.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
932
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Posted - 2015.04.26 14:24:43 -
[15] - Quote
If the magic Entosis wand can affect buildings, why not charisma?
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Mario Putzo
1236
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Posted - 2015.04.26 14:38:56 -
[16] - Quote
Attributes are more or less arbitrary anyway, so unless CCP has some big Attribute overhaul that actually makes them important outside of skill training speed, this all seems largely irrelevant to me. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
265
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Posted - 2015.04.26 17:59:34 -
[17] - Quote
I too feel that charisma should be made more useful as an attribute.... atm I remap yearly and I am... *how old am ? oh yes!* 7 years old in game... I have yet to go on a charisma remap.
that said, my trading alt is still stuck on her charisma remap, simply because I've never needed to train anything else on her.
skill groups that use charisma: trade (all) social (all) leadership (all) corp management (all) infomorph skills (3 skills under neural enhancement) [infomorph synchronising, infomorph psychology, and advanced infomorph psychology] command center skills (2 skills under Planetary management) [Command Centre upgrades, and Interplanetary Consolidation] research project management (2 skill under science)
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
448
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Posted - 2015.04.26 19:27:02 -
[18] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I'd say the exact opposite.
Charisma is considered a dump stat because so few skills use it.
The solution to it being a dump stat is not to make sure that no skills use it, it's to make more skills use it and thus make it less of a dump stat.
Wat is dis vOv
Common sense in F&I?
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Null Infinity
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2015.04.27 11:56:34 -
[19] - Quote
On one hand making charisma more usefull is fine idea. On the other hand = what has charisma to do with installing hardware item? I should smile better to make building build faster? Just not so logical, it seems to me.
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Snuggle Society The Marmite Collective
1656
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Posted - 2015.04.27 12:20:08 -
[20] - Quote
I fail to see why a skill's attributes should be based on what attributes other skills have. I doesn't make sense for the new skills to be charisma based anyways. Corporation management theoretically deals with interpersonal skills and uses charisma. Anchoring was originally about getting the rights for your corp to set up structures. Under the new system the skills represent the actual process of setting up the structure rather than the political process of getting permission to do so. I personally feel that these should be Memory/Intelligence skills for this reason.
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