Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 .. 16 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Research 131
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 06:43:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Xcom Only a minority lose there ships to pirates because of no instas. Those that lose there ship because of lacking instas are noobs. You lose your ship to pirates ones. Then you learn what is what and donÆt go down to low sec just like that.
And the idea of not having any instas to the new plases you go to. Well you donÆt because why travel in low sec without instas. And if you do go to a new place, well. You dock in Jita and buy yourself a region set insta pack.
New places > new instas > BM copying > lag
So do you prefer lag or 0km jump?
The same goes for empire wars. More insta copying more lag. The choice is 0km or lag because we already have a system that can do the exact same thing as 0km. So what do you choose because instas are not going anywhere, to many players like the idea of having them around.
just to clarify...
warp to zero is not the same thing as a gate to gate insta.
gate 2 gate bm's are made for a very specific approach vector, and only work from this vector.
warp to zero works from any vector, effectivly eliminating almost every type of interaction that currently occurs around gates or at stations.
its not even close to being the same thing.
|
LordGodKingBufu
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 07:58:00 -
[392]
Ahh you cant beat a good my dad's bigger than your dad thread...
Everyone knows its the kiddie-gansta-campers who moan about changes like this. For people with some snese there is always a soloution. When CCP introduced 15km warp in distances opeople said it wouldk ill eve, did it?
|
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 08:15:00 -
[393]
The logic behind it is. If you canÆt warp to 0km you make a BM to do the work for you. More Bookmarks more lag. So why not relive the pain of making more instas and remove the lag by implementing the next best thing.
So itÆs exactly the same as 0km but it doesnÆt take time to prepare. By the way you will get the same privileges as everyone. ItÆs not like you will be left out. And pvp wonÆt be ruined, only easy pvp kills will. That means that even new players will get the same privilege to jump to 0km so you wonÆt have that advantage over them.
The ones arguing against this are nearly talking as if they wonÆt get the 0km jump privilege and be left out. As if pvp will be ruined for them and the easy kills they previously could get on lone haulers or mission runners will not be possible. That is not called player vs player that is called bullying. You might want to take out the anger somewhere else. Like in RL were it really belongs.
If they can jump to 0km so can you. Get to the other side of the gate and scramble them and if you canÆt because itÆs high sec on the other side. Well then youÆre just pirating in the wrong system.
And outposts are supposed to be safe. CanÆt people try to get away from the pvp encounter? Or does pirates have a privilege to kill everything they find.
If we get the 0km system more players will venture to low sec and 0.0. That means more targets, more interaction and more pirating. So I donÆt get the logic behind arguing against this. If you think low sec is not crowded. Well wait till kali and see how new players start to venture there, now when itÆs a bit safer.
|
Twixies
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 14:27:00 -
[394]
sigh
|
Tirana Ferlina
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 14:30:00 -
[395]
Yehaw! 0 warps FTW!
|
Semjase
Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 14:40:00 -
[396]
warp to 0 fair enough u adapt your setup to catch ships on the other side. you should still be able to create bookmarks for safespots cans etc, but not be able to copy them? otherwise scan probes etc are pointless items
|
Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 17:16:00 -
[397]
I read up to page 7 but life is too short to read the rest. ;)
I think this is the best way to deal with the problem and although it isnt perfect it will help.
Right now any vaguely serious player in a remotely organised corp who has been playing for a amount of time (say a month) has gate to gate instas for their most used routes already and probably has quite a few more they dont use very often. I know I do.
As we all effectively have warp to 0km already adding this simply means I don't have to click on a bm anymore to travel. Newbies now get to play at the same level without spending hours copying instas first, and I don't have to spend ages making copies of mine for them to use.
Once thats sorted bookmarks will just be for the things they were orginally intended to do. Create tactical spots for sniping/scouting or for marking my favourite stations and POS locations. Miners will use them for marking belt positions. All good stuff and you dont need hundreds/thousands of bm's to do this.
This thing about a script that auto-removes bm's within 20km of gates sounds great, the game would be cleaned up overnight and we still have our tactical bm's.
Sure there will be downsides, but the decline of pirate gate ganks is not one of them. Go forth, hunt your prey and fight them - you'll find its actually a better way to play.
|
Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 17:21:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Research 131
just to clarify...
warp to zero is not the same thing as a gate to gate insta.
gate 2 gate bm's are made for a very specific approach vector, and only work from this vector.
warp to zero works from any vector, effectivly eliminating almost every type of interaction that currently occurs around gates or at stations.
its not even close to being the same thing.
In most systems I have multiple instas to the same gate, if there are 5 gates in a system I'll have instas to a gate from the other 4, so 4 instas per gate making 20 instas for that one system. If you are prepared then instas eliminiate the vector issue, as does warp to 0km.
|
Pick Me
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 17:57:00 -
[399]
Now you see how easy it is to make everyone's bm invalid, you just do it on the test server (with another change that won't be on TQ) and everyone is happy.
Then the D-Day come... You take down the forum for 5 days to prevent unmoderable major forum whine posts tsunami. |
Malakai0
Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 18:44:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
Just FYI to everyone, people who say this junk have no idea what 00 combat is like. EVERYONE who is ANYONE in a 0.0 war has BM's for every applicable gate anyway. You need a bubble to stop people, that is true now and will still be.
I guess it's pirates *****ing cause they will have more trouble catching newbies approaching gates in 0.4 systems? I can't think of any other reason why someone would be against this... _________________________ - We are Eye Of God, being so, we see the big picture. - Axiom is a self-evident truth upon which other knowledge must rest AND if its not self-evident to you, thats what |
|
Aquidus Nefron
Caldari Department of Defence Chorus of Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:01:00 -
[401]
I can't believe everyone is complaning, OMG we can't gate camp, well, if u live out in 0.0, just put a frekin bubble, and quit ur whining.
plus auto pilot will still warp to 15km, so u can catch those no brainers being lazy.
But, as for empire and wars, is there a was, when a corp is @ war, that ccp can make it where war'd corps can place bubbles in empire, and only have it affect the war'd corps?
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:44:00 -
[402]
If "Warp to 0" is really the best that CCP can pull out of their hat, then I am surprised and disappointed. I know that the pressure for *any* solution to the bookmark load problem is greater now than ever, but I simply can not believe that a kludge is better than a solution.
It isn't like the whole issue is something new, forcing CCP to take drastic emergency action. Solutions have been suggested, critiqued, trashed, rehashed, bought, sold, painted, varnished, tarnished, killed, ressurected, and flogged, for a very long time indeed.
An opportunity to improve gameplay in general and to enrich the diversity and vastness of the Eve universe is being thrown away, in favour of a "lowest common denominator" band-aid.
Is this what we are to expect for the future of Eve? Pandering to the fears of the miscontents, those unable (or unwilling) to see Eve as something more than a session of instant gratification?
Is this all Eve is worth? A quick paint over with the bland brush in order to make it compatible with the simple tastes of the masses, rather than add back some of the spice that made it worth sampling in the first place?
If this is the future path of Eve, then I fear for it. All the glitz of Kali can not begin to gloss over the horrible nerfing of the fundamental nature of Eve that this change will bring.
What aspect of Eve do we have to lose next in the ongoing pursuit of general appeal and simplicity?
I shudder when I even begin to contemplate that question.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:54:00 -
[403]
YAY!!! Great Job!! another great idea man this Kali is going to be one hell of a good thing.
I think they Finally realize a game is to be played.
|
Octavio Santillian
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:56:00 -
[404]
I only made it through 8 pages or so, but here are my observations.
IÆll have mixed feelings, but more happy than sad. I will miss the advantage my BMs have given me. I will lament the 150+ million ISK and MANY HOURS (probably days) I have spent making and copying BMs. But, I will be happy to be able to roam the stars without having to spend even more time and ISK to first prepare.
Someone mentioned that it might just be on the test server to relive the load on the sub par hardware. That sounds reasonable.
For those who fear that all BMs are going way, well that doesnÆt make any sense. CCP is enhancing the ability to scan probe for ships, and why would they if there were going to be no safe spots? Not to mention the fact that it would cripple PvP as we know it.
CCP, please comment.
Also, please tell me that IF you auto delete BMs, you have the ability to target gate and station BMs by proximity. Even doing this will probably kill a hundred of my most useful BMs, but I can live with remaking those. If I have to remake 1000 or more tactical and defensive BMs, it will be just another straw on the camels back.
ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
|
Serapis Aote
TBC
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 20:02:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Tiller, I think i know what you are getting at. Small ship jumps in, and warps off before anyone can target and warp disrupt it. I think there might be some truth to it, and thats why I think mobile warp disruptors should be allowed in low sec with this change.
this should be looked at...
one of the things oveur first mentioned when looking at the insta problem, was that it basically made ceptors and shuttles immune while traveling (except for bubbles). This solution doesnt address that problem.
|
Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 20:06:00 -
[406]
Oh gee you might have to go map out some BM's that you alkl can copy again and lag the server again in a few months. BIG DEAL!! If your in a corp send one guy to each system for one day and poof you have some BM's. If your not in a corp wait for the sale of the new BM's or go make some more. Personally?? I hope the limit personal book marks to 50 or 100 and thats it.
If this one thing makes you leave you were on the way out awhile ago.
|
Nott Too
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 21:46:00 -
[407]
One thing seems to keep getting lost here. This is a balance between server lag and features. If one feature takes as much power to run as bookmarks do, CCP owes it to the paying members of it's community to find a work around. (If you understand databases you know there are really very few options to increase performance and keep the current system.) That solution is going to have pros and cons.
If this makes jumping a decent sized and balanced fleet a possibility then it will increase some aspects of PVP. How many times do fleet battles end up with two large groups in adjoining systems because the FCs know you can't over come the lag? Without the lag, a balanced fleet should be able to beat a blob with discipline and tactics, a side of the game that is currently missing.
So you have the potential here to increase performance, increase the feasibility of battles between willing combatants, and the drawback of cutting down some (not all) of the ganking of individual pilots.
To me the performance increase will out weigh the loss.
|
Radix Salvilines
Virtual Democracy Intergalactic Freelance Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 22:02:00 -
[408]
I dont like pirates. Mostly their victims are noobs that dont know how to not be killed in low sec/0.0. Thats not to glorious. Others already have the needed bms and instadocks so... what the hell. Not a big difference - only smaller lag.
Pirates will have to be more clever to get their prey rather than just in a very lame way sit 150km from the gate and snipe incoming ships (and when someone wants to fight back they run very quickly). BEGONE COWARDS. Now u need very sophisticated tactics and i welcome it gladly.
Radix
|
Leuthispar
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 04:01:00 -
[409]
There is this ship called an Interdictor that drops bubbles that makes you drop out of warp, and these cool little things called Warp Bubbles, you wanna gate camp? you can camp on either side just use them, they are on the market and escrow. As far as empire goes, its a good idea, if you got the skill points to either snipe or tank the gate guns you should be out in 0.0 actually pvping not ganking newbies moving their stuff in haulers. The bigger plus about this, reduce lag all over EvE by a lot... Bms shouldnt be removed completely though, so you can still have tactical bms(250km above/below a station or gate)
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 04:52:00 -
[410]
I've not yet been on the Test Server so I'm speaking purely from second hand information, but I have heard with the hit point boost that 1v1 fights often last over 5 minutes long.
If this is true, warp to zero means that it's not just gate piracy that is significantly nerfed.
Solo belt hunting just took a big whack with the nerf bat as well. 5 minute fights plus instas for everyone mean that you'll VERY rarely ever get a target in a belt for long enough to kill him solo (unless you greatly overmatch him in ship strength and that is rarely fun even if the loot is good).
His friends will all use their nice new 'Warp to 0' option be on top of you before you can finish the job 90% of the time.
<shrug> Maybe this is as it should be, but many of us, (including most 'pirates' (according to their description of the word as it applies to Eve) who said warp to 0 is a good idea in this thread) find our fun through solo belt piracy.
Those that immediately sign off on as significant a change as Warp to 0 should really think it all the way through.
|
|
Felix Dzerzhinsky
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 05:06:00 -
[411]
So. . .why have 0.9 - 0.1 systems anymore. . .you may as well have 0.1 --> 0.0. I would not have any problems with this if you were allowed Interdictor sphears and warp bubbles in the mid sec regions? say from 0.9 to 0.0. As it stands, low-sec is about pirates, to take away the ability to camp gates in low sec, CCP is effectivly killing off the very idea of low sec. The warp core stabalizer nurf was a good thing, but this change reverses that nurf to a point where solo piracy is effectivly killed. Yes, I realize that this is a communal game, but some of us like to take a stroll on our own once in awile and go for the kill. Gate guns are bad enough for low-sec gate camping, this change is too much. So something has to give. I suggest the idea of limiting BMs to within a certain distance from a gate and stations. I belive that 15kms from the gate is a good distance. travel in eve should not be instant - you may as well remove the idea of 15 or 20 or 50 jumps and allow people to travel from one gate to any other gate instantly, if travel is a bore, then you may as well remove the idea of multiple gate jumps all together.
Yes, I am a pirate, and yes, I do gate camp. But this change is making it almost impossible to stop people from running. Yes, you can gate camp the 'other side'. But with the way people spawn around gates, this is very difficult to do with even a small gang.
BMs need to go, but creating PvP opportunities is also important. Removing pvp from eve is not my idea of a good change - its a reality that fights happen around gates, without these fights, small gang pvp will be elimitated and only the alliances will experience pvp in any meaningful way. Thats not good.
sorry for the long rant, but warp to 0km is the worst idea I have ever heard. Nurfing T2 ammo, Hit point changes, thse things are not game breaking. Warp to 0km however is something even beyond that in terms of changing the fundamental physics of the game.
|
Quantum Joe
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 06:38:00 -
[412]
/signed
This would greatly help to entice new players into low-sec and/or 00. With the probability of being gate camped nerfed slightly, I can see many of the carebears risking the dangerous waters of low-sec. I think this would also take a great deal of the sting out of the WCS nerf that's scheduled to release. Lastly but definately not the least, if all instas with in 100km's of gates were removed, the people of Eve would cheer and celebrate the lagless gameplay.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 06:50:00 -
[413]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator I've not yet been on the Test Server so I'm speaking purely from second hand information, but I have heard with the hit point boost that 1v1 fights often last over 5 minutes long.
If this is true, warp to zero means that it's not just gate piracy that is significantly nerfed.
Solo belt hunting just took a big whack with the nerf bat as well. 5 minute fights plus instas for everyone mean that you'll VERY rarely ever get a target in a belt for long enough to kill him solo (unless you greatly overmatch him in ship strength and that is rarely fun even if the loot is good).
His friends will all use their nice new 'Warp to 0' option be on top of you before you can finish the job 90% of the time.
<shrug> Maybe this is as it should be, but many of us, (including most 'pirates' (according to their description of the word as it applies to Eve) who said warp to 0 is a good idea in this thread) find our fun through solo belt piracy.
Those that immediately sign off on as significant a change as Warp to 0 should really think it all the way through.
Wow.. finally something I can agree with you on gene.. This really is the death of true solo pvp/piracy as it once was known and TBH I think its deliberate.. Why? Most pirates complain about the lack of targets and thats due to one and only one reason.. You guys were too good at it and ran eveyone off! Warp to 0km at gates is fine by me as you can almost always catch them on the other side of the gate if your competent as many an insta user has found out by my hand as I've always camped at 0km on the gate.. ( except slashers/shuttles.. waaaay to fast to warp at any time in eves history but thats fine as you shouldnt be able to catch 100% anyways if your soloing.. ) So what I see is CCP's attempt to make pirates work in groups just like everyone else has too.. After kali I'm still going to solo pvp/pirate but I have three accounts so I can at the very least get the leadership bonus and some throwaway dps from an expendable alt.. Is this fair to single account users? Not really sure as eve has always been about team work and gangs as far as the devs are concerned.. So all I can really say is if you still want to solo your gonna have to pony up some cash for a second account or make some friends with the same outlook as you.. If anything maybe the Pirate Coalitions ranks will swell with former solo pirates looking for some backup..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
LordGodKingBufu
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 07:52:00 -
[414]
Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
|
Felix Dzerzhinsky
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 07:56:00 -
[415]
Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 07/11/2006 07:58:25
Originally by: LordGodKingBufu Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
And who do you think is buying the stuff you are hauling? If you want to make money, you should take the risk. But enjoy having your market crash, its not the Alliances that are buying your stuff, its the Pirates. I mean, if you don't want to PvP - fine, but why take it away entierly? I pray they allow warp disruptors and interdictor-bubbles in 0.4 and below.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:04:00 -
[416]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 07/11/2006 08:05:06
Originally by: LordGodKingBufu Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
Ummm the complaint isnt from the pirates who operate in gangs mate.. Its mostly from solo pirates as the changes is kali will most definately put a crimp in that style of play.. 5 Ravens will still pwn people at the jump in as long as one is fitted as a dedicated tackler sitting on the gate.. A solo ship has to balance gank tank and scram all at once and now this will be pretty much impossible unless you have an uber officer/faction setup.. But as the autopilot will still dump you at 15km all the nubs that got popped before will still get popped at the warp in.. Time will tell and I'm thinking that all these guys will figure out another way if it comes down to it..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Peppy LePew
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:11:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 07/11/2006 07:58:25
Originally by: LordGodKingBufu Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
And who do you think is buying the stuff you are hauling? If you want to make money, you should take the risk. But enjoy having your market crash, its not the Alliances that are buying your stuff, its the Pirates. I mean, if you don't want to PvP - fine, but why take it away entierly? I pray they allow warp disruptors and interdictor-bubbles in 0.4 and below.
PvP isn't going anywhere. That's as foolish a statement as "people don't use station instas in systems they operate in", which really should read: MORONS don't have station instas in systems they operate in.
Warp to 0km doesn't drastically change the game, whether it be to gates -OR- to stations. Takes 2 medium bubbles to completely shut off a gate in 0.0, or an interdictor (just like now!). You can still tackle any ship slower than an interceptor coming out of a gate with a tanked Battlecruiser and sensor boosters (just like now!). The majority of your targets will flee to the safety of a station and insta-dock if they are not properly scrambled (just like now!) and you are making a mountain out of a tiny molehill.
In short: get a clue. And embrace the traffic this might actually bring to low-sec (and likely 0.0) just because of it's convenience. Or are you going to tell us that is somehow a bad thing, too?
|
LordGodKingBufu
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:12:00 -
[418]
That was ment slightly tounge in cheek..
I agree that we need warp disrupters in 0.4 and below. The fact that warp to 0m replaces an insta will only change the db load. people will warp to 0m wether it is in the game as a mechanic or as a player created workaround.
Maybe adjust the 0m factor depending on your standing with the soverign. -10 standing, you warp in at 20km +10 standing you warp in at 0m, 0 standing you warp in at 10km. This would give defending troops an advantage over invaders, and make trade faster for freindly corps as travel times would be less. Oh and kill all player made bookmarks....
|
Radix Salvilines
Virtual Democracy Intergalactic Freelance Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:32:00 -
[419]
Go on whinning u pirates. The days you were feeding your cowardly wallets on other honorable players are coming to an end.
And for real i think u may find some other ways of getting your prey. Gate camping will be pointless but an option warp to 0km will make low sec look less dangerous and more attractive for carebearers. Expect a big inflow of new peoples in low sec. U can switch from gate camping to belt camping, or camp with a friend (one in ceptor, second in ganker) and get the ships that come out from the gate and scramble him before he warps out. With the stabs nerfed this should be easier :)And there will be more ships coming your way :)
The tactics needs just to be adapted. There is always a place for pirates (u guys make the empire market running in some precent :D).
|
Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:44:00 -
[420]
Why are people complaining about the death of piracy? Some people said that "as soon as i go into a system they warp to SS"... well, dont they do that right now? what does warp to 0 have to do with this? If this allows them to warp to station or to a gate, then its just like a SS... it allows them to escape combat... no different from what it is like right now. Some are complaining that on low sec systems that boarder high sec, they can't go hunt down a guy on the other side... well, whats to prevent you from hunting a guy warping INTO the low sec from high sec? you can gank him just as easily.
Other than the fact that they will lose some targets that can warp before being scrambed after decloak, i really dont see a problem with this new system.
Repopulate Low Security!
Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 .. 16 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |