Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 .. 16 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 18:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/11/2006 18:58:08
Ok, seems CCP have put in the option to Warp to 0 km of gates on the test server. Personally I think its just fantastic, and I prey they dont change it back... :) So now everybody will have instas with much less server lag.
Congratulations to CCP for having the guts to actually DO something!
Note that the autopilot still goes to 15 km from gates only, which is good.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 18:59:00 -
[2]
My name is Winterblink, and I approve of this message.
Warp Drive Active | EVE: Nature Vraie |
Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 18:59:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Andargor theWise on 03/11/2006 18:59:36
\o/
EDIT: All we need now is corp/alliance bookmarks - Got grief?
|
Nir
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:01:00 -
[4]
See that wasn't so hard.. did it really take 3 years and 40,000 anti-insta BM threads to achieve this?
|
Artthana
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:01:00 -
[5]
Warp to 0 FTW.
|
Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:03:00 -
[6]
/me starts some fund for buying responsible dev(s) some 100 year old bottle of double malt or something crazy and pitches into it...
__ Weirda Join QOTSA Now Stealth Bomber Tweaks |
Ral YoungBeard
Minmatar Agony Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:03:00 -
[7]
And there was much rejoicing...
|
Ariel Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:04:00 -
[8]
The only word that comes to mind is 'Huzzah'
|
Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:05:00 -
[9]
Nice news. 3000 g2g bookmarks be gone!!! Less lag for everyone.
|
Major Stormer
Caldari Demon Womb
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Major Stormer on 03/11/2006 19:07:17 Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Note: im not a BM fan, I hate them, but i dont like warp to 0 either.
Those that do not adapt become victims of Major Stormer |
|
Caol
The Smoking Room
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:06:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Caol on 03/11/2006 19:06:29 Is there any possibility that this will also be released with Kali/Revelations?
If so, a few small questions:...are all BM's to be deleted or just those within a certain distance x of gates? What happens to safe spots, instance docks - are these also removed on the test server with the jump to 0km (wrt to docking)?
Sounds great though.
|
aggiedog
Kaos Order
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:07:00 -
[12]
Awesome. Now we need to change the bms so that they aren't a game item anymore. Then it' good bye lag bombs.
Good job CCP. I am looking forward to Kali even more.
--------------------------------------------- Forum Wars!...Because the battlefeild is laggy. |
zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:07:00 -
[13]
sigh
my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Major Stormer Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Camp the OTHER side. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 03/11/2006 19:07:58
Good. Lets hope they keep it so everyone can delete their 1000s of bookmarks so we can stop running out of itemIDs every week.
Originally by: Major Stormer Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Catch them on the other side of the gate.
|
aggiedog
Kaos Order
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Major Stormer Edited by: Major Stormer on 03/11/2006 19:07:17 Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Note: im not a BM fan, I hate them, but i dont like warp to 0 either.
Not true. There will still be gatecamps, though it will only be on one side of the gate(ie when people just jumped through). --------------------------------------------- Forum Wars!...Because the battlefeild is laggy. |
Montero
Black Omega Security
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Major Stormer Edited by: Major Stormer on 03/11/2006 19:07:17 Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Note: im not a BM fan, I hate them, but i dont like warp to 0 either.
The irony of your sig sickens me. ---------
Scrapheap Challenge
|
zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:09:00 -
[18]
i can but hope it doesn't make it to tq. this is not the way to go
my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp |
Major Stormer
Caldari Demon Womb
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Major Stormer Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Camp the OTHER side.
Thats the POINT. i DONT LIKE gatecamps, now thats all thats reallt gonna happen isnt it. Mostly anyway
Those that do not adapt become victims of Major Stormer |
Jin Jemai
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:10:00 -
[20]
Is it only for gates? Or can you do it with stations etc.. as well. ----- Lighten up a little bit. It's only the end of the world. |
|
Surkira
Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Surkira on 03/11/2006 19:11:02 Question, how will this relate to safe spoting and finding caro containers you dropped?
Don't get me wrong I think warp to 0 is a great idea, I am just curious how you will be able to get to other spots on the map.
EDIT: This only relates if CCP gets rid of ALL bm's
HELP!! I'm a ! |
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:10:00 -
[22]
I won't say "hurrah" jus yet..but at least finally something is being done.
My only concern is how we deal with existing instas.
If we are to know how removing them affects the game they need to be removed but that's a one way street. If Warp to 0 is subsequently removed people are going to be mad if they no longer have instas. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:10:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/11/2006 19:10:30
Originally by: Major Stormer
Thats the POINT. i DONT LIKE gatecamps, now thats all thats reallt gonna happen isnt it. Mostly anyway
Im not sure how this change affects the number of gatecamps? You mean that more people will camp gates when they cant be scanned for in advance? Yeah maybe. Use scouts. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Elve Sorrow
Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:11:00 -
[24]
hahahahahahaa
hahahahahahahahahahaha
Victory!
It's great being Amarr, aint it?
|
Wish Talker
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:12:00 -
[25]
Deploable 45 km behind gates will still work i hope :=)
|
EnglishBob
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:12:00 -
[26]
A WCS nerf AND the removal of Instas?
Oh happy day! ------------------
|
TheDevilsJury
principle of motion R i s e
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:12:00 -
[27]
well there goes my BM business.
But I do love it :) great change. Pretty much no change from status quo too (who serious about protecting their ship/cargo doesn't have BMs?)
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
dabster
Minmatar dabster Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:16:00 -
[28]
oh and how i celibrate the day i can delete my 6-7k instas ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click. |
DefJam101
Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:18:00 -
[29]
/me hugs CCP You guys roxxor ...although you probably could've just done a barrel roll. ***
|
MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:18:00 -
[30]
hp boost, local boost and BM boost - this is too much for me! u can't have my stuff
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
|
|
Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:21:00 -
[31]
Sounds good, but a couple (3) of questions.......
1. Is it only gate to gate that has warp 0, or anywhere to gate?
2. Is it only gates with warp 0, or stations too?
3. Why has it taken so long to implement this????!!!!
|
TheDevilsJury
principle of motion R i s e
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:22:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Wish Talker Deploable 45 km behind gates will still work i hope :=)
*should*... if you think about it, deployable 45km behind gates caught people on autopilot (15km), so why wouldn't it catch people on 0km?
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
ponieus
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:22:00 -
[33]
Its about time..
warp to 0km is the best and only way to get ride of the server lagging GTG BM's
----------------------------------------------- ok ok
|
Hellspawn01
Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:26:00 -
[34]
BMs should stay for bookmarking secret areas or hidden stuff. Remove the option to copy BMs and you solved it.
Ship lovers click here |
Zixxa
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MECTO hp boost, local boost and BM boost - this is too much for me! u can't have my stuff
local boost? Where???
|
Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:27:00 -
[36]
they removed all BM you cant make any and they have been removed from your user
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
|
Mechanical Death
Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:29:00 -
[37]
Very nice, let's all pray it makes it to TQ. Chosen Path [CHSN]
|
Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Moghydin Nice news. 3000 g2g bookmarks be gone!!! Less lag for everyone.
It's people like you that caused it! 3000 g2g? How many of them did you use regularly, if ever?
|
Becham
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:30:00 -
[39]
Dang, all bookmarks gone? They should at least let everyone have a few so we don't have to keep doing a map search to waypoint favorite destinations.
|
Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:31:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: MECTO hp boost, local boost and BM boost - this is too much for me! u can't have my stuff
local boost? Where???
Standings appear in local in the portrait box on Sisi.
|
|
Taralesk Inshani
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Harisdrop they removed all BM you cant make any and they have been removed from your user
Provided you aren't full of smelly stuff,
No way, no more safespots, etc, I doubt that. .
Quote: Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
|
ponieus
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Originally by: Moghydin Nice news. 3000 g2g bookmarks be gone!!! Less lag for everyone.
It's people like you that caused it! 3000 g2g? How many of them did you use regularly, if ever?
I have I dunno easliy more than 3k and I use them all the time..
But giving a warp to 0km option will remove about 90% of my Bm's..
----------------------------------------------- ok ok
|
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:33:00 -
[43]
It's not my favorite solution, but I'm really glad.
And **** is it going to save me a lot of trouble. I've almost totally given up on making instas, I hate making them so much. And I definitely couldn't afford to buy them.
Now, to see how much it really helps with the lag...
/fingers crossed that it makes it into kali 1. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 19:36:00 -
[44]
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates? --------- It's great being a Caldari, ain't it?
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:06:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/11/2006 20:10:46
There is no way they will remove bookmarks. They serve a very important role in Eve pvp combat and many other things. I think they will just add Warp to 0 km option to gates, stations, belts, perhaps ships as well... Thats it.
People can then delete their unneeded instas if they wish to help make Eve more lag free. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Kharakan
Amarr GREY COUNCIL
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:06:00 -
[46]
Heheh, I twigged this just before I saw this topic. Right clicked in space to warp to a roid belt (stuff to be shot there after all) and I see 'warp to 0'. Did an uber doubletake too xD.
I love it. No more buggering around with instas
Originally by: ParMizaN evry1ghasb a limiy...
...and ijust reached it ahaha...
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer [limegreen]I a |
Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:10:00 -
[47]
Not really happy with the warp to 0 option since I feel if you want fast travel, you should fit for fast travel but any fix that gets rid of the insta problem is better than nothing.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
|
Sylvia Frost
Sniggerdly
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:14:00 -
[48]
I can't believe what I just read.....someone pinch me.
|
Pan Crastus
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:14:00 -
[49]
Now let's put large warp bubbles back in the game ;-)
|
Lord Violent
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:16:00 -
[50]
Poor show.
You have varying speed for the different races of ships and among the classes of ships.
There should be only warp to at range no BM creation possible within 100km of gates.
Gives caldari one single weak point in their repertoire and is a nice balance to them.
Allows gangs to be formed on the strength of speed, hacs et al certainly dont bring it on damage/tanking over a BS especially with the HP changes inbound.
If you want to move quick fit speed/propulsion mods or fly a quick ship or even continue to use gang mates for slingshots.
|
|
Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:16:00 -
[51]
Just remove bookmarks, no need to introduce a warp to 0 option.... for obvious reasons, if you think a little.
Hail to entire alliance fleets moving into whatever system they like, wherever in eve, within an hour or 2 at most. No need for scouting or whatever!
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:17:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Reiisha Just remove bookmarks, no need to introduce a warp to 0 option.... for obvious reasons, if you think a little.
Hail to entire alliance fleets moving into whatever system they like, wherever in eve, within an hour or 2 at most. No need for scouting or whatever!
What, they dont have instas already you think? :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Securion Wolfheart
Caldari Semper Fidelis Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:18:00 -
[53]
Yes yes yes yes YES!!! Finally, wtf took you so long?
And i can see the 12-yearold gatecampers are crying their eyes out already. Dont worry kids. You can always camp the OTHER side of the gate mmh? There will always be some inocent noobs you can insta-pop in your WCS-fitted "battle"ships. You ******* *******s.
God bless CCP.
-----====-----
Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
|
coldplasma
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:18:00 -
[54]
Edited by: coldplasma on 03/11/2006 20:18:14 Brilliant idea, love you CCP, you have really made my friday night :)
I just hope this makes it to TQ... ____________________________
See you in 0.0 kids... |
Serapis Aote
TBC
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:21:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Serapis Aote on 03/11/2006 20:21:53
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/11/2006 20:10:46
There is no way they will remove bookmarks. They serve a very important role in Eve pvp combat and many other things. I think they will just add Warp to 0 km option to gates, stations, belts, perhaps ships as well... Thats it.
People can then delete their unneeded instas if they wish to help make Eve more lag free. :)
There was an oveur post not to long ago that hinted that a good number of devs favored the warp to 0 aproach and that there were also a good number that wanted to just remove all bms...maybe this is the compromise they came up with.
|
Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:21:00 -
[56]
Congrats to CCP for the size of ******* you showed in this matter!
|
DirtyHarry
Caldari Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:22:00 -
[57]
Nice! Hope it makes it into Kali1 (ps make dictor bubbles usable in empire wars)
Havocide - DirtyHarry |
Jouno
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:22:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jouno on 03/11/2006 20:22:45 THANX CPP!!! and for all those whiners, guys everyone that travel in 0.0 HAVE the bms!!! when you will remove 3000 bms from your p&p im pretty sure that will make a big difference on the performance
|
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:25:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Shin Ra on 03/11/2006 20:31:24 Wow a GM must have been listening on wednesday, great solution.
Dobbs is a loser :P
I take it CCP are not deleteing all BMs tho and that players can simply choose to remove all their GTG BMs (which obviously 95% of people will as it stops a lot of lag).
|
Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:29:00 -
[60]
its true that BM stay but now you can warp to anything at 0m and you are at 0m.
I will be deleting my BM that I dont have SS for and get no lag at jumps and opening my P&P.
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
|
|
Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:33:00 -
[61]
Nicely done ccp. I just bought 80mils worht of bookmarks, i guess they'll be only usfull for uintill kali hits.
I hope you dont remove all bookmarks but i def wont be complaining if i find warp to 0 and all my gate to gates delted. -----
|
BlackMoon Thrawn
Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:34:00 -
[62]
Its actually really great news for pvp. More people will be inclined to travel to regions they may not have had bms for in the past. They need to let people know if they are going to implement this, then remove all bms and make the new ones for personal use only. No copying. I cant imagine how well the cluster is going to run without all those bms to keep track of in the database. I am getting goosebumps just thinking about it.
|
Rakeris
Legio VIII
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:35:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Rakeris on 03/11/2006 20:35:47 Awesome! Great to hear! I'll be more than happy to get rid of my insta BMs! ^^
---------- I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises. |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente CURSED LEGION OF DOOM Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:39:00 -
[64]
I'd be much happier with a warp to within 3km instead of warp to zero. Gives us pirates a little more of a chance
The Best Thing I've ever seen in local chat [15:17:21] sotmassacer > can someone give me a big battleship for a while
|
Ishara Da'Ahn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:43:00 -
[65]
Can I get an "Amen" my Brethren?
|
Jane Spondogolo
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:44:00 -
[66]
Suggestion to CCP:
Warp to zero for slow ships. Warp to 20 for inties.
Im an interceptor pilot, after maybe a year of slow as hell battleships.
Theres no way even warp to 1 is useful as a battleship. Too slow and makes moving a T2 sniper out of home system unfeasable.
On the other hand, theres no need for instas on a good inty. After recently taking up intys its like freedom. Land at a gate camped by 20 guys, hammer aproach gate, mash jump.
no kill.
I love this game again finally.
But the trick is, base gate distance on speed of ship. If your slow, your warp drive is "stable"
A crazed fast ship like an inty has no **** aim. 20kms off gate. Not that it matters, Im faster than you.
Seriously, I think this is the answer. Also I need to cut down the alcohol beep beep
|
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:47:00 -
[67]
Awesome!
Hope it makes it to TQ.
Just to re-iterate. 1) Most combat takes place on the jump in to a system (not the exit) 2) People warp to 0 all the time now if they are manually piloting. This measure only kills lag.
|
JohnTheBaptist
Astronomic Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 20:57:00 -
[68]
Well im on the test server looking at this now, and I must say I just deleted the bm's I had on my char there as I dont need them anymore.
Guess it works
|
Yumi Katanawe
Caldari Demon Womb
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:06:00 -
[69]
instabm's = eve version of feign pulling
|
Scorp Monger
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:07:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Reiisha Just remove bookmarks, no need to introduce a warp to 0 option.... for obvious reasons, if you think a little.
Hail to entire alliance fleets moving into whatever system they like, wherever in eve, within an hour or 2 at most. No need for scouting or whatever!
If you are in a corp/aliance that is moving fleets with no prepared BMs then I understand your point. But who would do that? No one who want to survive! And ... if you have that BMs and are not scouting then you have to be very optimistic. I do not know any FC who would allow something like that. That is just sucide or lemming tactics.
How ever, that is something what had to be done and if it should hit TQ, i will have at least a week of party!
|
|
Able Citizen
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:07:00 -
[71]
This seems relatively minor, but a warp to 0km may diminish the immersiveness by shooting ships into gates and such.
Making a warp to 2k or increasing the distance from which you can activate the gate and warp (say, to 3.5k and then adding a warp to 3.5k option) would accomplish the same goal (making instas moot) and not affect the immersiveness of g2g travel.
I would forecast a boost in the market for mobile warp distruptors as well.
|
Syrann
The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:08:00 -
[72]
It reduces Lag.
It opens up 0.0 to the unexperienced / unprepared (that means MORE kills... for the record).
It makes it easier to raid enemy territory.
It makes dictors even more valuable.
It gives you something else to whine about on the forums (what more could you ask for!!)
------------ It's great to be Ama... Erm crappit, nevermind. |
Donov
Caldari StarHunt The UnAssociated
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:13:00 -
[73]
GREAT IDEA i love this idea a lot. i just think removing bmks alltogether would be a bad idea puerly because of safespots and as someone else mentioned agent missions uses bmks. so... if bookmarks are changed then ALL agent missions will need to be changed. perhaps ccp should have some bot system to delete all bmks near gates (they run off coordinates after all) or perhaps you should have warp to co-ordinate option for safespots :P
as for gate camps well there are warp bubbles and interdictors which will still effect warping in i should hope and yea we should bring large warp bubbles back!!! i have NEVER seen a large ever.
just my 2 isk. ;) ---------------
MEMBER OF STARHUNT STARHUNT SITE NOW RECRUTING |
Michayel Lyon
Contention Inc
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:17:00 -
[74]
What can I say, except "Finally!"
This change marks, in my eyes, a new beginning for EVE. From one single, minor alteration of game mechanics, the following will be accomplished.
1) Better server performance!!! No need to handle 100 million bookmarks (or whatever the number was), with database transfers on EVERY session change for every user.
2) Reduce the gap between new and old players. No need to buy/create instas.
3) Make relocation easier. No need to buy/create instas.
4) Give the illusion of safer low-sec/0.0 travel. If you have instas everywhere, you're close to invincible right? This will lead to more young players in low-sec/0.0, which will mean more targets for budding pirates. Because safety is really not much more than an illusion...
5) Nerf the invinci-sniper (together with new nerfed WCS) You can still camp gates, but now you actually need to sit on top of the gate (or have friends on the other side) if you want to take on targets going in both directions. Good thing then that all ships will have 50 % more HP, and thus be able to tank sentries a little better.
... and probably a few others...
To all the whining pirates out there: Adapt or die! Most people in low-sec/0.0 use instas today, and people still die. Neither instas nor this new change can overcome an interdictor or warp disruptor bubble, or the simple technique of catching the target on the other side. Your whining can only be seen as one of the many reasons this change was so sorely needed.
--- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions |
Taralesk Inshani
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Syrann It reduces Lag.
It opens up 0.0 to the unexperienced / unprepared (that means MORE kills... for the record).
It makes it easier to raid enemy territory.
It makes dictors even more valuable.
It gives you something else to whine about on the forums (what more could you ask for!!)
Ok, you WIN the thread. .
Quote: Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:20:00 -
[76]
Spiffy
Though tbh id rather see the min range kept at 15 AND instas removed ^_^ -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Mikal Drey
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:22:00 -
[77]
Originally by: var'ulfur err hate to burst the bubble but warp to 0km has been on the test servers before. it was more like jump to 0 then next time jump to 10k and so on and on. i would tie a skill to it or mod. for each level less random warping in till you reach the true 0 mark.but thats just me
QFT, it was broken on so many levels and was removed rather quickly. although pretty cool it was punishing to use
wouldnt mind seeing a skill related warp option "warp accruacy" -2km per level pre req. WDO V
|
Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:22:00 -
[78]
Woo!
It may also be wisest to wipe everyone's bookmark folder clean since a lot of people will be too lazy to clean them even if the warp to 0 happens. ---
|
Billy Sastard
Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:23:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Billy Sastard on 03/11/2006 21:24:01 I did not read every post in this thread so it may have already been mentioned...
I logged in to SISI to check out the warp to 0, and noticed that none of my station/gate bookmarks were available(they were there, just couldnt do anything with them).
After logging out to post this, I am thinking of things I should to to test bookmarking around gates and such before I get too excited.
I wont mind if they remove the gate and station bookmarks, but I would still like to be able to make safe spots and mining/hauling bookmarks. -=^=-
My Bookmarking Guide |
JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:25:00 -
[80]
let me warp bubble lowsec at least. please --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
|
|
Rahn Sohwant
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:25:00 -
[81]
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but if I were trying to run a test server on anemic hardware, and there was a huge load such as bookmarks that could be temporarily disabled, I think I might just throw in a warp to 0 and delete every bookmark, just as a temporary performance boost.
Absent any dev comment, I won't be counting any chickens until they actually hatch.
|
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:26:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 03/11/2006 21:26:38 -pinches himself to make sure he's awake- OW!
Wow...I never thought this would happen. If CCP does the unexpected and boosts Minmatar and the tempest to make them useful after the hitpoint changes, then I may even enjoy Kali and keep my account. This, at least is one step in the right direction among many steps backwards. I'd dearly love to be able to delete my 5000+ gate-to-gate instas. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven
Thanks, CCP.
R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle. |
Lord Saiken
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:29:00 -
[83]
I think this is a fantastic idea as it will cut down on a lot of lag from g2g bookmarks.
People whining that it will kill gatecamps.. At the moment everyone has instas to jump g2g, so how do you bring them down? 'Dictor bubbles! This just means there'll be less lag when you catch someone in a bubble...
The only thing that will be affected a lot is empire (0.1-04) gate camps.. but the majority of those that I've seen are your predictable 12 year old "I'm a hard pie-rat" ones... Maybe allow small bubbles in <0.5 and you're away!
Nice work CCP, I salute you o/
|
Angelus Custos
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:31:00 -
[84]
This feature not only get my stamp of approval, it makes me jump with joy
|
Taka
Caldari Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:32:00 -
[85]
What about empire low sec gate camping?
being able to warp to within 0m of a gate is just gonna ruin gate camping....cos you cant exactly use a ceptor to tackle at a gate. -------------------- My Sig Got Podded!!
|
Unfamed II
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:34:00 -
[86]
I wonder how long it takes to destroy 20000+ bookmarks from P&P. :| Seriously, it's not that great being an amarr, is it?
|
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:35:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Taka What about empire low sec gate camping?
being able to warp to within 0m of a gate is just gonna ruin gate camping....cos you cant exactly use a ceptor to tackle at a gate.
There will still be stupid people who autopilot through lowsec, and the autopilot will still warp at 15km. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven
Thanks, CCP.
R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle. |
Sergeant Benton
Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:36:00 -
[88]
Great news.
If this makes it to TQ (which I hope it does), CCP just need to run a tool which automatically deletes all BMs that are within 20km of a gate or station.
That way people keep bookmarks of safespots, sniping points, mining points etc etc but all gate/station bookmarks are gone. A distant memory.
Instant smaller database, instant less lag. Sorted.
|
Bufnitza
Black Straw
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:41:00 -
[89]
Seems CCP doesn't love pirates What will happen whit us?? First they are increasing ships HP so u can't snipe in low sec because is to hard to kill something , now they are introducing warp to 0km ....this really suks ,u can't do pirating at all , what now should i warp from belt to belt to catch a noob who's hunting in low security???? And btw the lag will not be reduced , ppl will not delete theyr bookmarks , CCP can't do this also ( some of us have verry important bookmarks and is hard to sort them) the only thing they stop is copiing bookmarks , but u still must live whit the lag . Wanna know why is so lag because of bookmarks , because CCP didn't do nothing till now when u press people and places and go to bookmarks by default to not show all , if u want to make a new bookmark why need to load 30k bookmarks to add one more , also if u don't change tab on buddies or somewhere else and press people and places the bookmarks will load , think about at this in JIta whre 50% of ppl from that system are setting a new destination and some of them forgot to change bookmark tab , how is when 50 ppl press people and places and server need to load 1 mil bookmarks only to set a destination ?????? This really ****ed me off!!!!! Cya guys , sorry for my english , and hope CCP won't do this stupid thing !!
|
Taralesk Inshani
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:42:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Rahn Sohwant I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but if I were trying to run a test server on anemic hardware, and there was a huge load such as bookmarks that could be temporarily disabled, I think I might just throw in a warp to 0 and delete every bookmark, just as a temporary performance boost.
Absent any dev comment, I won't be counting any chickens until they actually hatch.
Erm, I think this guy has the right idea. Makes perfect sense. More sense than Warp to 0, for sure. .
Quote: Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
|
|
Fedaykin Naib
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:44:00 -
[91]
woot!
"Long Live the Fighters!"
|
Acama
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:48:00 -
[92]
CCP ftw! \o/
|
HapeMask
Crisis Corp Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:56:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Taralesk Inshani
Originally by: Syrann It reduces Lag.
It opens up 0.0 to the unexperienced / unprepared (that means MORE kills... for the record).
It makes it easier to raid enemy territory.
It makes dictors even more valuable.
It gives you something else to whine about on the forums (what more could you ask for!!)
Ok, you WIN the thread.
Mm all our thread are belong to you :D quite true.
|
Kilpelainen
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:59:00 -
[94]
Dunno if this has been asked already but here it goes.
Warp to 15km (or at any range) doesn't actually land at 15km from the center of the gate but 15km from the edge of the gate. If warp to 0km is done with a battleball does the ones at the back side actually land into jump range? Whats the diameter of a battleball anyways?
*Member of the John Sheridan look-a-like club |
Semi Odorous
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 21:59:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Semi Odorous on 03/11/2006 22:08:10 I really hope this makes it to TQ.
Warp to 0 doesn't nerf gatecamping or make traveling in 0.0 safer than it already is. Anyone part of a self-respecting lowsec corp already has instas, or at very least the gang leaders have instas, so this doesn't change their game at all. It only removes a ton of load on the servers. I'm sure most people would remove their insta BMs themselves if they knew it would mean less lag.
Removing BMs entirely would completely change the game though, and a very bad idea imo. No more safespots for hiding ships or anchoring secure cans, no more scanning spots, no more bookmarks 200km off a gate for snipers, no more scouting spots for covert ops, etc. It would change from the illusion of infinite space to a collection of "rooms" with one "door" into each of them. Bad, bad, bad.
I think this is a good compromise! I hope this makes it to TQ!
Originally by: Taralesk Inshani
Originally by: Rahn Sohwant I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but if I were trying to run a test server on anemic hardware, and there was a huge load such as bookmarks that could be temporarily disabled, I think I might just throw in a warp to 0 and delete every bookmark, just as a temporary performance boost.
Absent any dev comment, I won't be counting any chickens until they actually hatch.
Erm, I think this guy has the right idea. Makes perfect sense. More sense than Warp to 0, for sure.
Have you guys played the game lately? TQ is running on anemic hardware too.
But I agree, I don't want to get my hopes too high for this. But I can still hope! ...if that makes any sense.
|
Spaja Saist
Gallente Knights of Retribution
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:01:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I'd be much happier with a warp to within 3km instead of warp to zero. Gives us pirates a little more of a chance
Pirates make me laugh. You know there is still the other side of the gate. People will appear randomly 15kms from the gate like always. There's your chance to scramble and pop them. God I hate whiney pirates.
|
Morfane
Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:02:00 -
[97]
If this change makes it to TQ as is, then interceptors, shuttles, and frigs with nanos on are now invulnerable unless they agress.
Also, you will need a frig with a 20k scrambler and triple sensor boosters to be able to tackle any ship with plenty of nanos, other than a battleship (and even then ...). Also, since the number of points available in this new system will likely diminish, one core stab is gonna go a long way.
Both of these situations are obviously untenable.
RIP non-consentual combat outside of 0.0. I did truly love thee.
|
Mantees
Gallente Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:02:00 -
[98]
This one might not be the solution everybody likes, but it is a solution!
Spending hours of playtime making and testing bookmarks was not fun at all, and when you don't have fun while playing a game... well....
Good job CCP. Not a fast & easy decision to take.
-- OGRank.com - EVE Online - MMORPG News |
Lt Hole
Caldari Tyrell Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:06:00 -
[99]
Warp to 0km = good.
But keep in mind that old bookmarks will still be in the database. Nothing would change lag wise until that database was trimmed.
If you're nervous, smacktalk in local.
|
Liyanna
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:06:00 -
[100]
But this doesn't mean it will help the database any. I'll bet you that at least 40% of the people with BM's DON"T DELETE THEM. out of fear of a switch back. They will copy them all to a series of cans and save them.
This isn't a fix really. It's basically an acceptance.
CCP wants more then this. The dev blogs on the subject have stated so. However I think they reached a point of critical reconsideration.
Before it was, alot of people have BM's + server pop is X and it sucks if you don't have them.
Now it's MOST people have ALOT of BM's some have ALL BM's + server pop is 5x and since most people have them for where they fly not having them is almost mute.
So really it comes down to, why not just add warp to 0? I think somewhere in a room, someone said. Why not, considering where we are? And there was probably no answer. Because the reasons to majorly outweigh the reasons not to.
And for those who say we need a skill. No we don't. Skill for travel = Required timesink. And this game just about has one with learning skills.
A module however would be a much more reasonable next step. - to combat + to travel. etc.
|
|
alpheon
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:07:00 -
[101]
I'm c r a c k-ing up. (c r a c k is censored, lol) All I see is pirates complaining that they won't be able to get easy AFK ganks from people auto-piloting at 15km. talk about lazy boring ... gankers.
seriously though, I've wanted this for a LONG time. I know that the only place I live (0.0 space) allows you to put up bubbles. Which will still work in this situation.
it makes more sense, as far as "SPACE" goes, and its going to radically reduce the server overhead as people like me with a few thousand book marks transverse nodes.
I think its going to change the nature of 0.0 as people will be more willing to explore, challange, get blown up, and fight for space. It will also force the defenders to be more proactive at their borders, and maintain Combat Air Patrols with bubbles and gate camps to keep their space safe. Sounds like fun to me!
As for you pirates. get a life, move in to 0.0 space, and set up some bubbles and camp a gate like a real man.
|
Securion Wolfheart
Caldari Semper Fidelis Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:08:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Morfane
If this change makes it to TQ as is, then interceptors, shuttles, and frigs with nanos on are now invulnerable unless they agress.
Also, you will need a frig with a 20k scrambler and triple sensor boosters to be able to tackle any ship with plenty of nanos, other than a battleship (and even then ...). Also, since the number of points available in this new system will likely diminish, one core stab is gonna go a long way.
Both of these situations are obviously untenable.
RIP non-consentual combat outside of 0.0. I did truly love thee.
Of course they are, and they should be! Thats the only "weapon" they have, speed, to be able to get away fast.
This is the best thing CCP have done during my time playing the game. GOOD WORK. -----====-----
Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
|
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:12:00 -
[103]
If CCP is really doing this, I certainly hope they will introduce a way to pull ships out of warp in between celestial objects.
If not, this is quite crazy...
They should have used my computer core idea instead of Rigs, and force ppl to build a ship for fast travel, not get it in any ship by default...
But, I applaud the removal of BM's if this turns out to be true...
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
|
Illistar DeathWing
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:12:00 -
[104]
I'm sorry but everyone who is agenst this is wrong. There is no difference between someone who has instants and this new feature. Other then not having to have 10k+ instant bookmarks in my p&p
|
w0rmy
Intensive CareBearz
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:14:00 -
[105]
Youre starting to again listen to your players concerns, and acting on them.
I like where this is heading!
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Dark Shikari
What single item is larger than a jetcan?
My ego?
|
Idara
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:15:00 -
[106]
****. There goes my 12k g2g BMs. I wanted all my the Map to read green when "My Bookmarks" selected.
Oh well.
HUZZAH FOR NO MORE INSTA LAG! ---
Go! Go! Go pointless Tier 3s! |
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:15:00 -
[107]
Woot for warp to 0km.
And LOL at all the whiney pirates. ADAPT OR DIE, or, USE THE TOOLS YOU HAVE.
Sound familar you twits? You've had a number of unreasonable advantages for years. It's about time you lost a few of them.
Non-consentual PVP will still be all too common. You'll just have to use your brains and risk your ships, like the rest of us.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
|
Zhealous
LFC Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:16:00 -
[108]
Considering so far 99% of jumps I've seen in 0.0 have been using instas, I can only applaud this move *if* it gets implemented, and *if* it actually reduces lag and such. I really don't see how that could be a bad thing.
Oh, and to those snipers who think their life of piracy is over because they'll have less easy ganks at gates, boo-hoo, if that's all you can do, I feel sorry for you. I've met many skilled and "respectable" (or should I just say they were decent players ;) ) pirates in eve so far, and none would lose any over such a change. If easy ganks is your only definition of piracy, just... lol.
Of course, as has been mentioned, without a dev-comment on this, we really don't know what's going to happen anyway.
|
Michayel Lyon
Contention Inc
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:17:00 -
[109]
To all the whiners.
PvP is not, have never been and should never be something only done at gates.
Yes, low-sec definately needs a boost (or rather a rebalancing to place it way above high-sec, but still way below 0.0. My proposal is: remove all lvl4 missions in high-sec, and (re-)introduce missions around belts, planets, gates and stations. This together with the new scanning system should be interesting enough... Perhaps even boost low-sec mining a little bit.
For the record: I am both PvP:er and mission-runner. Mission running is currently very safe, even in low-sec. But for some reason, the belts are almost always empty when I'm looking for targets...
--- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions |
Idara
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:21:00 -
[110]
****! I can't log in with my main, only my alts! ---
Go! Go! Go pointless Tier 3s! |
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:21:00 -
[111]
I look forward to the node crashes due to massive BM deletions.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Sergio Ling
Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:23:00 -
[112]
it's ther to reduce lag on test. no BMs, and warp to 0. it was the same before they rolled out RMR. it's not the fix
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
Umm, why don't you just use the correct dread? |
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:24:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Michayel Lyon
For the record: I am both PvP:er and mission-runner. Mission running is currently very safe, even in low-sec. But for some reason, the belts are almost always empty when I'm looking for targets...
Probably because slime bags (rp) like you are always looking for targets in the belts.
Just a thought. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
|
Grey Area
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:25:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Grey Area on 03/11/2006 22:27:08
Originally by: Bufnitza what now should i warp from belt to belt to catch a noob who's hunting in low security????
It's called "working for your kill". It's a novel idea, and I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. If not, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
On a more serious note, I see this as a potential "cover story"...WCS are nerfed, All level 4 missions threatened to be moved out to low sec...is this "warp to 0km" just an enticement to make carebears venture forth?
--- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Aceoil
Anti-Macro Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:28:00 -
[115]
A.) Once everyone starts to delete bookmarks, CCP will complain that all of us are laggin the server.
B.) Woo hoo
c.) In 2 months CCP will unnerf all the bookmark nerfs. Making it easier for people to copy their safespot bookmarks, and station instadock marks. __________________________________ Tired of the Macro Miners? Take control! Join the Anti-Macro Coalition |
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:28:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Sergio Ling it's ther to reduce lag on test. no BMs, and warp to 0. it was the same before they rolled out RMR. it's not the fix
Maybe, maybe not. They did do this once before, and got nothing but flak for it. Now they do it, and because people are fed up with the lag they get praise for it. It might stick this time around.
Or it might not. We'll see.
This is, afterall, exactly what Oveur said they were talking about doing.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
|
Bufnitza
Black Straw
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:30:00 -
[117]
careabering 4tw... Great boost for carebears . Btw solo players will die also .... I only hope i will not see 50 pages of characters for sale on ebay when this will be implemented !!! CCP one more recomandation : Teleporting ( ships loot everything )
|
Morfane
Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:33:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Morfane on 03/11/2006 22:35:36
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart
Originally by: Morfane
If this change makes it to TQ as is, then interceptors, shuttles, and frigs with nanos on are now invulnerable unless they agress.
Also, you will need a frig with a 20k scrambler and triple sensor boosters to be able to tackle any ship with plenty of nanos, other than a battleship (and even then ...). Also, since the number of points available in this new system will likely diminish, one core stab is gonna go a long way.
Both of these situations are obviously untenable.
RIP non-consentual combat outside of 0.0. I did truly love thee.
Of course they are, and they should be! Thats the only "weapon" they have, speed, to be able to get away fast.
This is the best thing CCP have done during my time playing the game. GOOD WORK.
From http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=248
Originally by: Oveur
Now, from my point of view, the far most important part of this equation is the near invulnerability during travel. I couldn't care less about travel time in comparison to having people running around [close to] invulnerable.
Frigs have plenty of other "weapons", as you put it. They include flight speed, low sig radius, fast locking, and they are cheap cheap.
edit: responded to the frigate "weapon" analysis.
|
Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:36:00 -
[119]
A big thumbs up here. I'm more likely to venture into sub 0.5 space if that reaches TQ.
Please find a way to auto delete these Insta gate BM's too. That is what it really needs, rather than relying on the players to delete them.
If you leave it to the players, it will never happen.
|
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:37:00 -
[120]
You can still make bookmarks on SISI.
I dont really see the problem with copying BMs, I doubt it puts much strain on the DB servers when you copy 2 safespot BMs/your local POS BM to a corpmate.
'Cause when *everything* has a warp to 0km option, that's the only things that are going to be BM'd and copied.
Btw, to the guy who was suggesting they run an app that deletes all insta BMs and leave the rest? Well, looking at my BMs, that's *exactly* what they did - all my instas are gone, but my SafeSpots and various "Landmark" BMs I keep are still here. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
|
Mat rix
Caldari Sacred Templars DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:39:00 -
[121]
i think this is great,
if this was to happen i would have no option but to delete my 9000 gate bms.
lag free servers FTW
|
Glassback
M. Corp Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:40:00 -
[122]
I add my voice to the Keep Warp to 0 shout match
G.
I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Futuri
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:40:00 -
[123]
YAY!
|
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:46:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Mat rix if this was to happen i would have no option but to delete my 9000 gate bms.
They're not going to give you a choice.
If this goes through, they'll have a script chew through all the BMs in the DB and remove every single gate/station insta in all our accounts. Just like they did on SISI. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:51:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
For someone who professes to know so much it's stunning how little you know: 1) Camp the OTHER side of the gate and use a tackler. 2) 0.0 dead? WTF? Use a **** bubble. Duh. Not to mention the fact that 99.99999% of people in 0.0 use instas already. Giving them warp to 0km does NOTHING different except allow them to delete all those god forsaken instas. (I for one will be thrilled to ditch mine). 3) Blobs? You can STILL solo camp just the way you always have. You'll just need to do it on the OTHER side of the gate now. Lock/scram/web them as they align. As a bonus they usually pop out >15km from the gate so you have even MORE time to kill them.
I swear people act like this is the end of the world. It's not. It doesn't affect a smart pirate *at all*
|
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:53:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Bhaal If CCP is really doing this, I certainly hope they will introduce a way to pull ships out of warp in between celestial objects.
If not, this is quite crazy...
They should have used my computer core idea instead of Rigs, and force ppl to build a ship for fast travel, not get it in any ship by default...
But, I applaud the removal of BM's if this turns out to be true...
Please tell me how this is any different than people having instas. Till someone can show how this is ANY different than folks having instas STFU about this 'ruining' PVP. Because it won't. Especially in 0.0.
|
ElCoCo
KIA Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:56:00 -
[127]
So like,.. WCS nerf? Delete a billion "friends" from buddy list with the standings showing in local? Deleting a zillion BM's?
Oh my, I'm so happy
|
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 22:59:00 -
[128]
Originally by: ElCoCo So like,.. WCS nerf? Delete a billion "friends" from buddy list with the standings showing in local? Deleting a zillion BM's?
Oh my, I'm so happy
YEP... Thrilled here. I'm about sick of having to keep a huge buddy list to keep track of enemies... it'd be nice to be able to use it for... *gasp*... buddies.
|
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:02:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake Woot for warp to 0km.
And LOL at all the whiney pirates. ADAPT OR DIE, or, USE THE TOOLS YOU HAVE.
Fortunately, pirate whiners don't represent pirates in general. The pirates with a clue will adapt and thrive. The ones without a clue won't, which works out well for *everybody* else. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Molten Platypii
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:04:00 -
[130]
Cheers for gate to gate bookmark removal!
Now - if you're going to delete all bookmarks - *please* delete all the items they go to - abandoned shuttles, lost ibis's, empty canisters...
|
|
Alowishus
Shadow Company Alektorophobia
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:04:00 -
[131]
Curious, does anyone who ever complained about instajump BMs actually also not use them? Or are they using them "cause everyone else is so I might as well- even though they, um, like suck, and stuff." Seems like this warp to 0km is a good solution since everyone, even the naysayers, used instas anyway.
|
Morfane
Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:04:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Please tell me how this is any different than people having instas. Till someone can show how this is ANY different than folks having instas STFU about this 'ruining' PVP. Because it won't. Especially in 0.0.
This is different because if this is the solution that goes in, then that is the one we will be stuck with. Players who hate instas have been waiting for a change on them for a cruelly long time now.
It will institutionalize them along with all their cheesiness, and thats why the "doom and gloom" scenarios.
|
Rahn Sohwant
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:09:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: ElCoCo So like,.. WCS nerf? Delete a billion "friends" from buddy list with the standings showing in local? Deleting a zillion BM's?
Oh my, I'm so happy
YEP... Thrilled here. I'm about sick of having to keep a huge buddy list to keep track of enemies... it'd be nice to be able to use it for... *gasp*... buddies.
Unfortunately, my experience is that sec rating (which is what is going to show in local) in not always a very good predictor of whether someone's going to gank you. The contents of someone's 'disliked by' is what gets them on my buddy list.
|
Foofad
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:09:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Sergeant Benton Great news.
If this makes it to TQ (which I hope it does), CCP just need to run a tool which automatically deletes all BMs that are within 20km of a gate or station.
That way people keep bookmarks of safespots, sniping points, mining points etc etc but all gate/station bookmarks are gone. A distant memory.
Instant smaller database, instant less lag. Sorted.
This guy right here has the right idea. Nobody needs bookmarks outside of gates for anything other than instas, problem solved.
I'm really happy about this, myself. Things are definitely looking up. Long live Warp to 0km.
|
Aceoil
Anti-Macro Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:13:00 -
[135]
Originally by: ElCoCo So like,.. WCS nerf? Delete a billion "friends" from buddy list with the standings showing in local? Deleting a zillion BM's?
Oh my, I'm so happy
Oh, I forgot about that as well.
The database is going to become real small, and the game preformance will increase because of this.
__________________________________ Tired of the Macro Miners? Take control! Join the Anti-Macro Coalition |
Imode
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:20:00 -
[136]
I predict ... interdictors rising in price. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:21:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Rahn Sohwant Unfortunately, my experience is that sec rating (which is what is going to show in local) in not always a very good predictor of whether someone's going to gank you. The contents of someone's 'disliked by' is what gets them on my buddy list.
No, it shows standings. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Morfane
Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:24:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Alowishus Curious, does anyone who ever complained about instajump BMs actually also not use them? Or are they using them "cause everyone else is so I might as well- even though they, um, like suck, and stuff." Seems like this warp to 0km is a good solution since everyone, even the naysayers, used instas anyway.
Instas are so overpowering for those who use them versus those who don't, that to not use them is pure idiocy.
I was a trader for the first 9 months of my time in this game. For the first half of that, I refused to use instas as I believed they were just too cheesy. I went through gatecamps, I evaded pirates in 0.0. All it took was quick thinking. Then my competition was easily beating me to the market buy orders, so I had no choice but to give in and use them. This was compounded when I started shooting stuff.
|
Neru Hatakani
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:28:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Ok, seems CCP have put in the option to Warp to 0 km of gates on the test server. Personally I think its just fantastic, and I prey they dont change it back... :) So now everybody will have instas with much less server lag.
Congratulations to CCP for having the guts to actually DO something!
Note that the autopilot still goes to 15 km from gates only, which is good.
Jim, for that news i want to have your baby!!! Now that I made it clear you better be hot and steamy or the deal is off!
Oh and AWESOME!!!! Well done CCP, first WCS nerf, and now warp to 0.0 = AWESOME TREND!
|
Electric Cucumber
Amarr Extinction Level Event
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:32:00 -
[140]
the beginning of the carebear era.
|
|
Sean Dillon
Caldari Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:38:00 -
[141]
Hurray for empire wars
|
MissileRus
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:41:00 -
[142]
Edited by: MissileRus on 03/11/2006 23:42:12 atleast it fixes something very mutch needed
they can always tweak it later after kali1 if it makes it in and make a new skill instead of 0km to everything at once. make that several skills, one for gates, one for belts, one for stations etc.
hope to god it it stays in..
--------------------------- 4. i like pizza |
UndergrounD
Caldari Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:44:00 -
[143]
good move by CCP tbh
-----------------------------------------------
|
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:44:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Locke DieDrake Woot for warp to 0km.
And LOL at all the whiney pirates. ADAPT OR DIE, or, USE THE TOOLS YOU HAVE.
Fortunately, pirate whiners don't represent pirates in general. The pirates with a clue will adapt and thrive. The ones without a clue won't, which works out well for *everybody* else.
I agree. Thats why I made a point of "whiney" rather than just pirate in general.
It's going to be nice not having to worry about some lame gate sniper soloing in an apoc trying to 1 shot shuttles and frigs. Of course, it's been a long time since they were actualy anything to worry about anyway. Just see if your big ass guns can track my interceptor. Good luck. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
|
Nobler
Caldari Messerschmitt Shipyards The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:48:00 -
[145]
This is a very good thing, if it makes it to TQ. No more laggy BM's. No more spending HOURS copying said BM's.
As for getting back to can's and what not, maybe force more people to use scan probes to find those objects. As far as safe spots, maybe it would be a good thing if we didn't have those any more either, sure would put more of a "thrill" in PvP.
|
Alha Qmar
Caldari Xenon Logistics
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:50:00 -
[146]
Why dont u add god mode to the game?
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:51:00 -
[147]
Feh. Cop-out.
|
Neru Hatakani
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:53:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Alha Qmar Why dont u add god mode to the game?
Whammmmbulance? Dial for Waambulance you say? The BM issue is, pardon, was an ongoing issue. Now it is solved.
The only worry is the secure cans with ammo and loot all over the place. Which means I have to make it to Stain and back before Kali 1 hits, I have about 500 Mill worth of crap in bunch of cans there.
|
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:56:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Neru Hatakani
Originally by: Alha Qmar Why dont u add god mode to the game?
Whammmmbulance? Dial for Waambulance you say? The BM issue is, pardon, was an ongoing issue. Now it is solved.
The only worry is the secure cans with ammo and loot all over the place. Which means I have to make it to Stain and back before Kali 1 hits, I have about 500 Mill worth of crap in bunch of cans there.
No, you dont. The script only removed gate and station instas, all my other BMs are still here. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Alha Qmar
Caldari Xenon Logistics
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:56:00 -
[150]
If u know that 30%+ kills come from gate kills, where enemy has to slowboat towards it. Then u must be really retarted to eliminate that kind of pvp completely.
|
|
ghosttr
Amarr Universal Annhilation
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:56:00 -
[151]
Now if only you could fix local so it doesnt show people until they say something in local.
~ The skill of the person, not the skill of the character is the determining factor in any conflict. ~ |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 23:57:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/11/2006 00:02:13
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Theres no way even warp to 1 is useful as a battleship. Too slow and makes moving a T2 sniper out of home system unfeasable.
Got a MWD on my t2 sniper tempest and it goes beyond 1000 m/s. So if I land a few km off the gate, it's mainly the disadvantage of higher risk, which might be intended, but it wouldn't have any big impact on my travel times.
But maybe I'm just a nub.
P.S.: The mwd comes at the cost of 1 sensor-booster, which means no 249km targeting range and less often pod-kills for me, when I'm gate-camping. I think I can live with it.
|
Christina Vallentine
Caldari Tau Ceti Global Production Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:10:00 -
[153]
whoe... awesome job CCP, please keep it in!!!!
|
Paddlefoot Aeon
Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:13:00 -
[154]
WHy are peopel asking what will happen to BMs.... I will gladly erase all my own g2g BMs if it will improve my client performance. Who wouldn't?!?
I think this is a great idea!
|
Mush Room
Caldari Svea Rike Tre Kroner
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:13:00 -
[155]
Thank you CCP, for finally getting off your butts and implementing this.
|
Sentinel Eeex
Caldari Two Brothers Mining Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:16:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Bufnitza Seems CCP doesn't love pirates What will happen whit us?? First they are increasing ships HP so u can't snipe in low sec because is to hard to kill something , now they are introducing warp to 0km ....
I think you don't understand what "pirating" means.
What you're describing is CS type of playing in EVE.
|
Scoundrelus
Finite Horizon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:22:00 -
[157]
Ain't that a kick in the nuts to all the gate camping pirates. =============================================== We are Watching You. |
Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:27:00 -
[158]
... It was like a thousand whiney pirates suddenly cried out in terror... and were suddenly silenced.
If we can keep tactical BMs I'm more than satisfied, I'm deliriously happy to get rid of all the gtg BMs I have. I figure at least 95% of my BMs fall into that category. Loving the upcoming changes CCP.
Blog |
Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:31:00 -
[159]
about time
Quote: "Don't touch the RED b |
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:32:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Alha Qmar u must be really retarted
Dear god, I'm speachless.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
|
|
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:42:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Scoundrelus Frankly I'm ecstatic. I didn't want to have to take the better part of my life copying all the BMs in the FZN hanger. At last... however perhaps we should take this time to look back on some history. Who invented the first insta?
Nobody say "Edward J. Insta of course!" because I already thought of it and its not funny.
The first insta was created in the second beta phase buy a character called "longwalker".
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
|
LWMaverick
Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:42:00 -
[162]
bye bye gate piracy...
Now introduce bubbles in low sec thanks..
<3 |
Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:42:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Alha Qmar u must be really retarted
Dear god, I'm speachless.
__ Weirda Join QOTSA Now Stealth Bomber Tweaks |
Scoundrelus
Finite Horizon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:45:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Scoundrelus Frankly I'm ecstatic. I didn't want to have to take the better part of my life copying all the BMs in the FZN hanger. At last... however perhaps we should take this time to look back on some history. Who invented the first insta?
Nobody say "Edward J. Insta of course!" because I already thought of it and its not funny.
The first insta was created in the second beta phase buy a character called "longwalker".
A moment of silence for all he gave us.
*thinks about all the haulers that insta'd to the gate*
and all he took from us. =============================================== We are Watching You. |
Venus Ra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 00:58:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Zhealous Considering so far 99% of jumps I've seen in 0.0 have been using instas
This is the simple truth, I really don't see what people are complaining about. Predicting the death of PvP because of this and what not makes me wonder if you even play EvE.
If they can reduce the BM lag and remove one of the most tedious aspects of the game (like copying 9,000 BM's five at a time) all I can do is salute CCP.
|
checkplease
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:06:00 -
[166]
omg omg omg \o/ no more waiting 3 mins for people and places to open omg please CCP let this make it through to release. then we can all do away with insta's WOOT!!!!! faint's thud!!
|
Cuisinart
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:20:00 -
[167]
I hope the op is right, but I'm reluctant to get happy until I see this endorsed as official good stuff by a dev...
|
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:24:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/11/2006 01:26:40
Originally by: LWMaverick bye bye gate piracy...
Now introduce bubbles in low sec thanks..
Yes, agree, something like that. I wonder if warp to 0 in low-sec is really, how it should be. And yes, I know it is the same like bookmarks, but I'd say that that is broken, too, so no point here.
Instas/warp to 0 and no bubbles in low sec. means 100% safe travel for fast ships: Incoming side of the gate 100% safe, outgoing side 100% too, since agile frigs are unlockable, before they go into warp. Even with 1200 sensor strength no chance to scramble them, before they go into warp. I don't have problem with the fact that they are faster in warp than anything can get a lock currently with lag etc., but there should be away to catch them somewhere else or hinder them moving on through low sec., if a party decides to shut down that route. But there is no such way. In my eyes it's broken. And yes, I know that we can still bubble gates in 0.0. But if I can move tech-2 bpos, officer mods etc. solo from Rens to Jita at zero risk through the short low sec. route, I'm quite sure that it'S not how it was supposed to be. It's to please carebearish people, who don't care about the background stuff, but just want to move their stuff safe and easy from A to B, no matter if there is low sec or not. I don't support this, sorry.
|
Edison Frisk
Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:32:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/11/2006 01:26:40
Originally by: LWMaverick bye bye gate piracy...
Now introduce bubbles in low sec thanks..
Yes, agree, something like that. I wonder if warp to 0 in low-sec is really, how it should be. And yes, I know it is the same like bookmarks, but I'd say that that is broken, too, so no point here.
Instas/warp to 0 and no bubbles in low sec. means 100% safe travel for fast ships: Incoming side of the gate 100% safe, outgoing side 100% too, since agile frigs are unlockable, before they go into warp. Even with 1200 sensor strength no chance to scramble them, before they go into warp. I don't have problem with the fact that they are faster in warp than anything can get a lock currently with lag etc., but there should be away to catch them somewhere else or hinder them moving on through low sec., if a party decides to shut down that route. But there is no such way. In my eyes it's broken. And yes, I know that we can still bubble gates in 0.0. But if I can move tech-2 bpos, officer mods etc. solo from Rens to Jita at zero risk through the short low sec. route, I'm quite sure that it'S not how it was supposed to be. It's to please carebearish people, who don't care about the background stuff, but just want to move their stuff safe and easy from A to B, no matter if there is low sec or not. I don't support this, sorry.
People moving around cargo on the whole will have instas anyway, in my view this is a move in the right direction and also will help the server side of things. You will just have to snipe them on instalock on the outbound gate while they are lining up for warp.
I for one.....nay 99% of eve say BRAVO CCP!!
|
Hast
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:33:00 -
[170]
it better not be warp to 0 on stations... Then you might aswell just add a god mode button to the game... And I still say that you should remove instas, but still keep warp to 15
This is in my opinion a cop out.
EVE is all about choice and setting up for the right job.
If you want to move safe, you use a fast ship and nano's
If you want to be safe while moving you use stabs
If you want to move a large fleet in hostile territory without instas its still possible, even with warp to 15 and no bookmarks. But it requires friends and teamplay. Something that doesent belong in a mmo right?
Originally by: John McCreedy I'm just the guy who'll hunt you to the ends of the ******* earth if you ever insult my honour again. Are we clear on that?
|
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:34:00 -
[171]
Frankly this should've been done a long time ago.
Now if we get our system-wide belts with the scanning improvements, then we'll see the numbers in low-sec climb...and of course, the number of big juicy targets for the scan probe equipped pirate to nail climb too.
I think low-sec will be fine, I think 0.0 won't change, and if it hasn't already been said dropping a warp bubble 45km behind the gate is pretty much the scariest thing you ever notice happening - "oh great I'm arriving at theOH MY GOD WTF!!!! AHHH!!!"
--- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good! |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:41:00 -
[172]
Dunno if it already was mentioned but I didn't want to look through all pages... Is it just me or was all BM's disabled? Looks like that unless it bugged on me since I can list my BM's but not warp to them. So no insta to my fav Veld location...
EVE-Files | EVE-Search | Monitor this Thread |
|
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:43:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Chribba Dunno if it already was mentioned but I didn't want to look through all pages... Is it just me or was all BM's disabled?
Seems to be a bug, since you can make new BMs just fine. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Beringe
Raptus Regaliter
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:55:00 -
[174]
Finally.
Now, remove all bookmarks, permanently. Make people use those cloaked scouts!
------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:18:00 -
[175]
I have a small pessimistic side, and think that CCP probably just did this on the test server to reduce lag on it, since it's hardware isn't that stellar.
But, then again, maybe they'll see this fast growing topic, see the pages and pages of "Woot! Yes! Go CCP!" and other such posts and realize that this is what most of the player base wants.
I personally use instas, simply because theres no good reason why not to, they make things so much safer. I would be extremely happy if they did indeed implement this on TQ and we all got to delete our g2g's. I personally agree with them automagically deleting all BMs 20km away from gates, simply because there really is no reason for them, if the warp to 0 option is indeed implemented.
So please CCP, if you weren't intending to do this on TQ and really were just doing it on SiSi to help lag... listen to these fine forum folk. 90% of eve players will love you forever (even more), 5% will be indifferent, and 5% will think the game will collapse.
But the 5% that think pvp will be ruined because gate camping will be harder aren't too important IMO
|
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:18:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Beringe Finally.
Now, remove all bookmarks, permanently. Make people use those cloaked scouts!
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Bufnitza
Black Straw
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:31:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
For someone who professes to know so much it's stunning how little you know: 1) Camp the OTHER side of the gate and use a tackler. 2) 0.0 dead? WTF? Use a **** bubble. Duh. Not to mention the fact that 99.99999% of people in 0.0 use instas already. Giving them warp to 0km does NOTHING different except allow them to delete all those god forsaken instas. (I for one will be thrilled to ditch mine). 3) Blobs? You can STILL solo camp just the way you always have. You'll just need to do it on the OTHER side of the gate now. Lock/scram/web them as they align. As a bonus they usually pop out >15km from the gate so you have even MORE time to kill them.
I swear people act like this is the end of the world. It's not. It doesn't affect a smart pirate *at all*
U can't use tacklers in low sec , will be insta poped by sentrys and anyway u will need a faction disruptor to catch something .And yes u need blobs because all ships will have HP increased .Anyway no more solo for ships like BC's , elite Bc's ,BS's , they don't have a chance to catch something on other side of the gate . A good thing ...finally i will make a visit in BOB space !!
|
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:46:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Bufnitza U can't use tacklers in low sec
Sure you can, you just have to make sure the sentries are busy shooting someone else...
|
Bufnitza
Black Straw
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:52:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Bufnitza U can't use tacklers in low sec
Sure you can, you just have to make sure the sentries are busy shooting someone else...
Sentrys are switching targets verry often , yah u can use a HAC whit remote repairs from a carrier or something ,
|
Auri Hella
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:57:00 -
[180]
I support warp to zero.
|
|
Knerf
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:03:00 -
[181]
i say its a trick, they will impliment warp to 0km, everybody will delete their BM's then they will take it away
|
Letouk Mernel
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:09:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Plutoinum /edit To be honest, I'd cut off minmatar space from caldari space etc. with 0.0, except a 20+ jump safer route, just to seperate the empires more. Players think that empire is one big homogeniuos blob, but it isn't. It's 4 different states / races, who have conflicts with eachother. The usual empire dweller doesn't care about that, just wants it convenient. I'd force him to care.
Yeah, I'd also extend corridors of high sec and low sec up into 0.0, with many stations, so that the "Empire" space looks more like a spider with its legs extended, rather than a blob in the center. String entrance-into-0.0 gates from the many systems composing the "legs" to completely eliminate bottlenecks, and let the carebears set up "border trading" at the stations there.
But eh, whatever they do, we'll get to see, and continue to play.
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:10:00 -
[183]
Warp to 0 is the biggest nerf to piracy in the history of eve.
Because I said so...
|
Lord Saiken
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:21:00 -
[184]
Originally by: murder one Warp to 0 is the biggest nerf to piracy in the history of eve.
Because you'll miss your easy kills?
Sorry but ihave respect for real pirates that go out and use their skill to get a kill, not muppets who sit on gates and shoot at everything that comes through 'because they're well hard innit!'
All this is going to change is the way people travel (and yes the amount of lag!) and it will finally get rid of the idiots in the 0.4 systems next to the high sec systems where some newbies get their missions who camp the gates not for territory but to be ****s
|
Kerosene
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:31:00 -
[185]
I'm mixed really. Firstly I'm really happy that I won't need my 9k bookmarks any more. They were starting to cause me some problems with e-warps and lag. However this will make empire wars and low sec hunting a lot harder due to the now invulnerability of frigates and interceptors. I've already formulated ways around this in low sec but I can't see a single way to catch an enemy war target in an interceptor at all in safe sec.
This needs to be accompanied by an increase in the amount of time it takes for ships to get into warp. A minimum of 3 seconds for any class of ship. On the other hand since my client will respond faster then I might be able to catch some of the slower frigates now where I can't now.
Secondly I think the time is right to allow warp disruption bubbles into low sec... but they only catch war targets.
Thirdly I think warp to 0 should be countered with a new structure that is deployable in constellations with 3 outposts with the same sovereignty.
__
Originally by: Blacklight on BoB Just to be sure everyone is clear...
We use spies. We listen to your TS. We feed you false intel. We have no qualms about it whatsoever..
|
Skaz
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:50:00 -
[186]
Ok wonderful news, but is it for real? Will it be like this when Kali is released?
7 pages of cheering for something unconfirmed is rather hasty...
But all that put aside...
FINALLY! - -
PINK PINK PINK PINK |
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:52:00 -
[187]
Originally by: murder one Warp to 0 is the biggest nerf to piracy in the history of eve.
Rubbish.
It's a nerf to mindless gate sniping twitch reflex snipers preying on noobs. It will do nothing to piracy.
I will admit that a combination of factors will make small gang piracy harder (this combined with hitpoint increases) but your one liner is unsubstantiated knee-jerk drivel.
|
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 03:56:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Skaz Ok wonderful news, but is it for real? Will it be like this when Kali is released?
7 pages of cheering for something unconfirmed is rather hasty...
Well if nothing else, I figure a thread like this is probably worth a hundred "OMG FIX INSTAS CCP" threads as far as telling CCP where the playerbase stands. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Takaharu Tsuyoshi
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:02:00 -
[189]
Sounds like a boost to 'piracy' really. Now people will actually have to fly around and find targets instead of mindlessly sitting at a gate picking off the small crafts.
|
Gonada
Gallente Cross Roads
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:20:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Gonada on 04/11/2006 04:21:09 lol
funny, seeing the whiny posts saying pvp is dead.
what you should really say is one sided pvp is dead.
besides, any one in 0.0 uses instas, you do know that dont you?
so right there your point is moot.
but heres a tissue for trying.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
|
|
Dahak2150
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:30:00 -
[191]
If this goes through, I will delete every single one of my instas.
Safespots will stay, but they are only a tiny fraction of what I have. ---------- My sig is boring. |
Rogue Clone
Assault Squadron
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 04:36:00 -
[192]
Thank You CCP... please make this available on tranq when kali hits
Thank You!
-- CEO of Assault Squadron now recruiting PVP players, please contact in game |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 05:41:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Plutoinum /edit To be honest, I'd cut off minmatar space from caldari space etc. with 0.0, except a 20+ jump safer route, just to seperate the empires more. Players think that empire is one big homogeniuos blob, but it isn't. It's 4 different states / races, who have conflicts with eachother. The usual empire dweller doesn't care about that, just wants it convenient. I'd force him to care.
/signed
I've often wondered why there was no "DMZ" between the empires.. And with the new faction warefare we might have a bit of real faction warefare with no sec hit for those so inclined if some Concordless neutral ground was made available.. Make sure the 0.0 is worthless for anything but pvp though with no stations or moons and a med sized belt with crap ore and good rats to have some fun away from the gates.. No choke points though.. A minimum of 2 ways to enter and exit the corridor and travel to the other side otherwise some large well organized griefer corp will just bubble the gate to hell and back and ruin it for everyone else..
Oh yeah.. Do I like the new 0km warp in option?
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Ceres Cherin
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 05:43:00 -
[194]
Yes, PLEASE let us warp to 0 and remove the need for Instas.
Instas add no positive aspect to the game. They just force people to go through inane procedures to get anywhere, and it just lets lazy prats in battleships to be able to gank anyone unfortunate enough not to want to waste days building bookmarks and increasing lag, instead of playing the game...
After all, the feature of 'warping to 0' by instas has been available to a lot of players for a long time. It won't change any balance, except give new people a chance to experience lowsec and such without having to spend days preparing by mindlessly flying around in a shuttle.
|
Aric Nahl
Caldari Special Services LTD
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 06:36:00 -
[195]
I have spent a fortune buying instas, lost a number of ships making instas and sacrificed a wife and 2 girlfriends* due to the ridiculous time it takes to make copies of said instas for corpmates and friends... and I will be freaking delighted to toss them all out if this goes live.
I do have several concerns however, but the main one is that my undershorts may well need serious drying out. Seriously**, how very cool is this? Less d!psh!t gate-sniping knuckleheads, and more CLEVER pirate gangs. More emigration to low and null sec areas by the curious, and the foolhardy. Potentially more trade finding it's way out to the hinterlands. And, naturally, better server performance due to fewer database acquisitions. Happy pants all around!
If player votes have anything to do with this, my 2 accounts give it a total of 4 thumbs up!
* Yeah, right... who has time for that nonsense, when there are enemy fleets about? ** Not really.
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 07:55:00 -
[196]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 07:56:24
I fully back this move but only if CCP remove stacking on sensor boosters.
Reason is in low sec 75% of PVP is on gate approach, being forced to the jump in system to intercept means we need to be able to get fast lock times.
Remote sensor boosters also need to work....
If CCP do not remove the sensor stacking all small ships become totally immune to any attack at gates. That is just not right.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Kazuma Saruwatari
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:00:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Syrann It reduces Lag.
Wins it for me.
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:04:00 -
[198]
Originally by: LWMaverick bye bye gate piracy...
Now introduce bubbles in low sec thanks..
Hit the nail on the head, without pvp at stations or gates in low sec, low sec may as well be high sec.
I really do wonder how eve will continue with maybe 75% of PVP areas removed like this.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Abyss Jack
Serial Chill3rz
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:19:00 -
[199]
<3
sig |
Marco P
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:21:00 -
[200]
Yeah right, so Eve will totally collapse cos a small minority of lazy pirates can't gank those few who haven't had time to make an insta?
Removal of all instas within 100km of gates (and I assume the same is being done for stations?) will be a huge step forward for 99% of Eve.
|
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:29:00 -
[201]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 08:30:12
Originally by: Marco P Yeah right, so Eve will totally collapse cos a small minority of lazy pirates can't gank those few who haven't had time to make an insta?
Removal of all instas within 100km of gates (and I assume the same is being done for stations?) will be a huge step forward for 99% of Eve.
I was just wondering where unconsentual PVP is mostly going to take place ?, can you help me understand :(
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Skraelingz
Gallente Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:41:00 -
[202]
in belts? course if you want lots of targets just wardec someone i guess heh. :) -----------------------------------------------
|
Bufnitza
Black Straw
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:43:00 -
[203]
Pirating on the gate is not always so easy how u think , u never know when u find a heavy tanked BS whit warp disruptors ( i m pirating whit my astarte , no wcs) and some noses , i lost couple ships because of that so STFU , exist transport ships if u want to go in low sec space , don't need to go whit a 500k indy and 500 mil loot in cargo. Anyway pirating will be dead !!!
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:44:00 -
[204]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 08:46:03
Originally by: Skraelingz in belts? course if you want lots of targets just wardec someone i guess heh. :)
1. very few people have any reason to be in belts
2. if you wardec how does that change the fact you cant catch anyone.
heh ?
Eve PVP is unlike any other game, it is VERY limited to specific areas. Take these areas away you will destroy the PVP side of the game or at least greatly reduce it.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 08:56:00 -
[205]
I support warp to 0 and the the raised worth of good tacklers.
|
Kretin Arnon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:03:00 -
[206]
When people find it easier to travel to low sec more will also try their luck in the belts and complexes. That is obvious. And with the added traffic it might also be easier to hide your presence (as a pirate), I do not know how the new "local" features will work out.
And complaining about small ships getting away? What kind of profit is there in popping those? If people are carrying expensive stuff in a small fast ship they will just take the long way around low sec any how. Now people might be more inclined to take their expensive stuff through low sec.
And you know about "high sec suicide ganking"? This system works even better in low sec, actually the whole suicide part goes out of it.
I do see a problem catching war targets, have to think about that one.
|
kDaser
Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:06:00 -
[207]
Hot Frekin Damb now when I open my people and places I might not have a 5 min wait. Plus this one change will do more for the servers than the last ramsan and blade upgrade did
|
Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:48:00 -
[208]
I wonder if there will be this much support when they remove level 4 missions from high sec space...
I sure hope so.
I am ambivalent towards this change. If it really reduces database lag as much as some people are hoping then I support it. If that's not the case and it's simply to make travelling safer then I'm not.
The joys of alliance warfare... |
Nicholai Pestot
Gallente Havoc Inc
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:49:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 04/11/2006 09:51:48 Lets just hope this really is the death of all BM's.
I can deal with no longer catching people warping to gates/stations as long as safe spots and tactical bookmarks are removed.
If i can actually engage people when they are in a system, im not too bothered about a slight increase in difficulty in catching them as they leave the system
Edit> Can we increase the range and decrease the damage/tracking of lowsec turrets at the same time? ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:52:00 -
[210]
In practice my instajump BMs will be going into a station container in high sec when this goes live, simply because of the risk that the change will suddenly disappear.
However my god, with the scan probe changes this should lead to some much more awesome in-system combat, as well as tactics around the different gates.
--- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good! |
|
Aodha Khan
Minmatar The Necroborg The Sani Sabik
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:55:00 -
[211]
Great, the dumbing down of Eve continues due to technical issues.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
|
Ceres Cherin
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 09:56:00 -
[212]
Dumbing down? What the hell are you talking about? Instas aren't 'skill'. They're tedium. And people could do this just before, now ANYONE can do it instead of just people who spent hours flying in circles with a shuttle.
If you can't prat people who can warp to zero, you're just a crappy prat.
|
Aodha Khan
Minmatar The Necroborg The Sani Sabik
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 10:02:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 04/11/2006 10:03:34
Originally by: Ceres Cherin Dumbing down? What the hell are you talking about? Instas aren't 'skill'.
Taking time to make them is a player attribute, my friend. It's shows patience and thought. Something that many Eve players lack to their peril.
Many kills due to people taking a risk without bookmarks will now be gone unless specific tactics are used. The risk level just went down by a significant amount.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
|
Futher Bezluden
Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corps Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 10:06:00 -
[214]
warp to 0. np. everyone has instas already, so this helps the nubbies a lot.
Now, if CCP strips out all instas, I am going to be ****ed. I have gate tacticals, belt tacticals, station tactical, emergency exits, safe spots. All are extremely valuable. Having to remake them is going to be a pita.
How about just deleting instas within 40km of the gate/station if the 0km warp point2point goes in? Keeps all the snipers and sneaky buggers happy.
Make BM's uncopiable! THUKKER -Be Paranoid
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 10:33:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 10:33:59
Originally by: tiller The remaining 1/2 of PVP left is flawed (belts and jump in). Belts are generally empty and jump in side of gates nerfed with sensor stacking.
You need to talk to some of your alliance mates who camp the Jel/Egghelende gate.. I sat in my Buzzard and witnessed actual effective on gate camping.. They had a cloaked scout on the Jel side and 2 Megas on the Egg side.. Using the scout to judge when the target would jump in they would arrive at the gate just before the target appeared in local.. Popped **** near everyone who jumped in to the system even shuttles.. Hell they even popped me.. (Granted they had alot more than 2 Megas.. ) Seems they have no problems so why are you griping?
2006.07.16 10:52
Victim: LOLZ Alliance: None Corp: Imperial Academy Destroyed: Dominix System: Egghelende Security: 0.4
Involved parties:
Name: Kilo Paskaa (laid the final blow) Security: -8.5 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: Beer and Kebabs Ship: Raven Weapon: Inferno Torpedo
Name: IchIro Security: -9.7 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: Armee der Finsternis Ship: Raven Weapon: Paradise Cruise Missile
Name: Infar Dantenon Security: -9.7 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: Armee der Finsternis Ship: Cerberus Weapon: Scourge Heavy Missile
Name: doggy 2 Security: -10.0 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: Armee der Finsternis Ship: ****ation Weapon: ****ation
Name: der kohle Security: -10.0 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: Armee der Finsternis Ship: Typhoon Weapon: Vespa I
Name: Snake PL Security: -10.0 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: Armee der Finsternis Ship: Apocalypse Weapon: Apocalypse
Name: Janice Malstrom Security: -9.6 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: S U N Ship: Megathron Weapon: Megathron
Name: Morph3uS Security: -9.9 Alliance: Pirate Coalition Corp: Armee der Finsternis Ship: Armageddon Weapon: Armageddon
Destroyed items:
Drone Link Augmentor I Sensor Booster II Small Tractor Beam I Drone Link Augmentor I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I Hammerhead II (Drone Bay) Hammerhead II (Drone Bay) Hammerhead II (Drone Bay) Large Peroxide I Capacitor Power Cell Warrior II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Ogre I (Drone Bay) Hobgoblin II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) E500 Prototype Energy Vampire Hobgoblin II (Drone Bay) Hobgoblin II (Drone Bay) Ogre I (Drone Bay) Ogre I (Drone Bay)
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 10:41:00 -
[216]
Oh noes! Gate campers will have to start working for it!
We can't have that!
|
Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:05:00 -
[217]
Just like you worked for a 0km warp in?
The joys of alliance warfare... |
Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:09:00 -
[218]
The devs will get much beer this fanfest :))
|
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:38:00 -
[219]
have new snowball laucnher we must this xmas and 10000 snowballs we must
|
Lucre
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:39:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Ok, seems CCP have put in the option to Warp to 0 km of gates on the test server. Personally I think its just fantastic, and I pray they dont change it back... :)
They won't change it back ... until everyone had long enough to delete all their bookmarks. Then they'll change it back...
- It's great flying Amarr, aint it? |
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:40:00 -
[221]
Originally by: tiller Listen guys, I know it is a great move for lag, but PVP just became pretty much consentual only. One word springs to mind. CAREBEARS! lol
Nub..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:42:00 -
[222]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 11:45:12
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: tiller Listen guys, I know it is a great move for lag, but PVP just became pretty much consentual only. One word springs to mind. CAREBEARS! lol
Nub..
well argued
Guess I cant spoil this happy day for all the people in eve who currently stay docked through fear of being blown up. Gratz, welcome to WORLD OF EVECRAFT
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:43:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 11:48:31 As good as yours..
I can edit too.. Yes I stay docked because im a simple forum alt.. Whenever I reply its with the knowledge of several high skill charecters from all aspects of eve.. Your arguments are nubish.. Your alliance mates have no problems scoring kills at gates with a wide variety of tactics that snare n00bs and vets alike..
So..
Nub..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Vladimir Ilych
Hidden Industrial Group
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:48:00 -
[224]
My two pence.
This is probably the best way to get people into 0.0
|
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:50:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Victor Valka on 04/11/2006 11:50:11
Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde Just like you worked for a 0km warp in?
Hey now! I'll have to do it manually!
That's three clicks and 10cm of mouse movement! It's outrageous, I know. I'm not sure I'll be able to handle such a workload.
Very much on par with gate campers.
|
xtreamer
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:51:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
plzzz if your an pvp-er you know you can catch jump inns and even use an intedcitor buble or mobile buble to suck them in from thair 0km warp, _____________________________________
What made bob cross the rode? they had 3 to 1 ods :D
Sig removed, pleasse keep it within the 400x120 pixel and 24,000 byte limits, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:52:00 -
[227]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 11:53:47
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 11:48:31 As good as yours..
I can edit too.. Yes I stay docked because im a simple forum alt.. Whenever I reply its with the knowledge of several high skill charecters from all aspects of eve.. Your arguments are nubish.. Your alliance mates have no problems scoring kills at gates with a wide variety of tactics that snare n00bs and vets alike..
So..
Nub..
Man get a clue.
There is only one way to kill at a gate with the change. To scram them before they can warp on jump in. As I said, small ships are now immune from being forced into PVP. None of you can understand the change this has on eve and the whole way PVP is currently handled.
Sit back and think....
btw, dont try and teach me how to camp a gate :P, it's all I've done in eve for almost 3 years
edit: all ship / mod producers should notice a massive fall in demand, inflation anyone ?... the economy is gonna be wrecked.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:55:00 -
[228]
Originally by: tiller
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 11:48:31 As good as yours..
I can edit too.. Yes I stay docked because im a simple forum alt.. Whenever I reply its with the knowledge of several high skill charecters from all aspects of eve.. Your arguments are nubish.. Your alliance mates have no problems scoring kills at gates with a wide variety of tactics that snare n00bs and vets alike..
So..
Nub..
Man get a clue.
There is only one way to kill at a gate with the change. To scram them before they can warp on jump in. As I said, small ships are now immune from being forced into PVP. None of you can understand the change this has on eve and the whole way PVP is currently handled.
Sit back and think....
btw, dont try and teach me how to camp a gate :P, it's all I've done in eve for almost 3 years
And yet I see none of your alliance mates posting concerns on the forums.. and wait.. They get almost all their kills on the jump in not the warp in.. Yeah the new warp to 0km is really gonna nerf em all right..
Nub..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:57:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: tiller
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 11:48:31 As good as yours..
I can edit too.. Yes I stay docked because im a simple forum alt.. Whenever I reply its with the knowledge of several high skill charecters from all aspects of eve.. Your arguments are nubish.. Your alliance mates have no problems scoring kills at gates with a wide variety of tactics that snare n00bs and vets alike..
So..
Nub..
Man get a clue.
There is only one way to kill at a gate with the change. To scram them before they can warp on jump in. As I said, small ships are now immune from being forced into PVP. None of you can understand the change this has on eve and the whole way PVP is currently handled.
Sit back and think....
btw, dont try and teach me how to camp a gate :P, it's all I've done in eve for almost 3 years
And yet I see none of your alliance mates posting concerns on the forums.. and wait.. They get almost all their kills on the jump in not the warp in.. Yeah the new warp to 0km is really gonna nerf em all right..
Nub..
Thats because I'm a forum *****, with my main (hint)
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 11:58:00 -
[230]
LOL! <3
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:01:00 -
[231]
Tiller, I think i know what you are getting at. Small ship jumps in, and warps off before anyone can target and warp disrupt it. I think there might be some truth to it, and thats why I think mobile warp disruptors should be allowed in low sec with this change.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:02:00 -
[232]
Bookmarks, while a load on the database, are/were an asset that require time and often ISK to aquire, giving you a distinct tactical advantage. Just like training skills, isk + time (and of course some know-how) = advantage
Now with the HP boost, everyone having instas everywhere, solo pvp will be dead. Thanks, CCP, at least you got it right with the stab nerf
|
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:04:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Aodha Khan Edited by: Aodha Khan on 04/11/2006 10:03:34
Originally by: Ceres Cherin Dumbing down? What the hell are you talking about? Instas aren't 'skill'.
Taking time to make them is a player attribute, my friend. It's shows patience and thought. Something that many Eve players lack to their peril.
Oh rubbish.
Until the last patch you just logged in when you werent going to play and "shift-clicked" a shedload of bm's and went to play golf.
Thats not patience and thought.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:05:00 -
[234]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 12:05:59
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Tiller, I think i know what you are getting at. Small ship jumps in, and warps off before anyone can target and warp disrupt it. I think there might be some truth to it, and thats why I think mobile warp disruptors should be allowed in low sec with this change.
I understand about the difficulty of snareing frigs but current game mechanics let you snatch them if you have a dedicated tackler.. The 2 Mega setup at the Egg gate used one as a dps ship and the other as an insta locker.. They killed shuttles on jump in.. Warp to 0 changes none of that.. What more do you want tiller?!
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:07:00 -
[235]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Bookmarks, while a load on the database, are/were an asset that require time and often ISK to aquire, giving you a distinct tactical advantage. Just like training skills, isk + time (and of course some know-how) = advantage
Now with the HP boost, everyone having instas everywhere, solo pvp will be dead. Thanks, CCP, at least you got it right with the stab nerf
Correction.
Solo ganking will be dead.
Of course, targets that fight back aren't exactly PvP, but meh...
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:07:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Tiller, I think i know what you are getting at. Small ship jumps in, and warps off before anyone can target and warp disrupt it. I think there might be some truth to it, and thats why I think mobile warp disruptors should be allowed in low sec with this change.
Yep, I say make this change but remove all stacking from sensor booster / remote sensors. Then we can at least try to adapt.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:08:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 12:05:59
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Tiller, I think i know what you are getting at. Small ship jumps in, and warps off before anyone can target and warp disrupt it. I think there might be some truth to it, and thats why I think mobile warp disruptors should be allowed in low sec with this change.
I understand about the difficulty of snareing frigs but current game mechanics let you snatch them if you have a dedicated tackler.. The 2 Mega setup at the Egg gate used one as a dps ship and the other as an insta locker.. They killed shuttles on jump in.. Warp to 0 changes none of that.. What more do you want tiller?!
I want to kill you all
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:09:00 -
[238]
Originally by: tiller Yep, I say make this change but remove all stacking from sensor booster / remote sensors. Then we can at least try to adapt.
That's not adapting.
That's asking for an imbalance in your favor.
|
Del369
Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:10:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Del369 on 04/11/2006 12:11:13
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
Camp both sides of a gate? All the victim will get is a moment of smugness and relief, snatched away like a mobile phone which rings in Stockport.
Really glad i wasn't drinking coffee when i read this
I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!! |
Fi T'Zeh
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:12:00 -
[240]
Win. ....
Real men use blasters |
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:12:00 -
[241]
Originally by: tiller I want to kill you all
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Trahern Twrgadarn
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:16:00 -
[242]
Great move imho, it means I can get rid of about 3K worth of bm's that I mainly use in empire anyhow.
There are'nt many downsides to this as most peeps were using bm's, it just makes the server a bit stabler (hopefully). Poor snipers will be having a bad day though with warp to 0 AND the WCS nerf
It's gonna be intresting to see how this effects the game in the long run.
Quote: Creana > u`r momma is so fat , that BOB mistaken her for a region and claimed her
|
Sivona
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:17:00 -
[243]
Somewhere i hear ginger screaming...and it makes me happy
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:18:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: tiller Yep, I say make this change but remove all stacking from sensor booster / remote sensors. Then we can at least try to adapt.
That's not adapting.
That's asking for an imbalance in your favor.
The only reason for warp to 0 is for server issues, not gameplay. This restores the inbalance added by the server related nerf.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:20:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 04/11/2006 12:28:32
Originally by: Sivona Somewhere i hear ginger screaming...and it makes me happy
How did you know?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=421186
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:21:00 -
[246]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 04/11/2006 12:29:56 Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 04/11/2006 12:25:01
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Bookmarks, while a load on the database, are/were an asset that require time and often ISK to aquire, giving you a distinct tactical advantage. Just like training skills, isk + time (and of course some know-how) = advantage
Now with the HP boost, everyone having instas everywhere, solo pvp will be dead. Thanks, CCP, at least you got it right with the stab nerf
Correction.
Solo ganking will be dead.
Of course, targets that fight back aren't exactly PvP, but meh...
That's quite the assumption you're making there. I've gotten the best fights I've ever had "solo ganking targets that don't fight back," winning with 10% structure left, or losing to a typhoon with heavy structure damage in a solo enyo, or taking down a gate camp with 4 t2 frigates (both out-numbered and radically out-classed) are thrills I fear will be long gone in Kali
|
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:27:00 -
[247]
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Bookmarks, while a load on the database, are/were an asset that require time and often ISK to aquire, giving you a distinct tactical advantage. Just like training skills, isk + time (and of course some know-how) = advantage
Now with the HP boost, everyone having instas everywhere, solo pvp will be dead. Thanks, CCP, at least you got it right with the stab nerf
Correction.
Solo ganking will be dead.
Of course, targets that fight back aren't exactly PvP, but meh...
That's quite the assumption you're making there. I've gotten the best fights I've ever had "solo ganking targets that don't fight back," winning with 10% structure left or taking down a gate camp with 4 t2 frigates are thrills I fear will be long gone in Kali
I don't really see how the upcoming changes will effect this.
People that were willing to put up a fight will still do so. Gate-camps will still exist but will employ different tactics.
Or am I missing something here?
BTW. "Warp to 0" is still a big "?". We don't know if it will make it to TQ until a dev says so.
|
JohnTheBaptist
Astronomic Influence
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:30:00 -
[248]
If this does make it to tranq, It may actually improve low sec for everyone, including pirates. I think most people fear the gate camp when they think about going into low sec. If this change does make gate camping less worthwile, then more people will start to populate low sec, and use the stations etc. In time this will lead to more people living in low sec and hanging around in the belts and complexes, where the pirate can have their fun with them.
Basically, if people arent getting blown to bits when they jump into that first low sec system, and then they dock without losing their ship (as they can now warp to 0) and they do this day after day, they will get a sense of security and start to spread out and do normal hig sec empire things in low sec.
I think this will be a good thing in the long run for low sec, although the pirate business will be slow for a while I guess
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:31:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Bookmarks, while a load on the database, are/were an asset that require time and often ISK to aquire, giving you a distinct tactical advantage. Just like training skills, isk + time (and of course some know-how) = advantage
Now with the HP boost, everyone having instas everywhere, solo pvp will be dead. Thanks, CCP, at least you got it right with the stab nerf
Correction.
Solo ganking will be dead.
Of course, targets that fight back aren't exactly PvP, but meh...
That's quite the assumption you're making there. I've gotten the best fights I've ever had "solo ganking targets that don't fight back," winning with 10% structure left or taking down a gate camp with 4 t2 frigates are thrills I fear will be long gone in Kali
I don't really see how the upcoming changes will effect this.
People that were willing to put up a fight will still do so. Gate-camps will still exist but will employ different tactics.
Or am I missing something here?
BTW. "Warp to 0" is still a big "?". We don't know if it will make it to TQ until a dev says so.
You are missing the fact that in low sec there is now no way to stop someone exiting the system. People can move freely pretty much, and with free movement the risk of nonconsentual pvp risk goes also.... and the thrill of the unknown.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:33:00 -
[250]
Woot, let's all spam CCP's servers with delete sql query instead of inserts now.
|
|
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:34:00 -
[251]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 04/11/2006 12:37:09
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Bookmarks, while a load on the database, are/were an asset that require time and often ISK to aquire, giving you a distinct tactical advantage. Just like training skills, isk + time (and of course some know-how) = advantage
Now with the HP boost, everyone having instas everywhere, solo pvp will be dead. Thanks, CCP, at least you got it right with the stab nerf
Correction.
Solo ganking will be dead.
Of course, targets that fight back aren't exactly PvP, but meh...
That's quite the assumption you're making there. I've gotten the best fights I've ever had "solo ganking targets that don't fight back," winning with 10% structure left or taking down a gate camp with 4 t2 frigates are thrills I fear will be long gone in Kali
I don't really see how the upcoming changes will effect this.
People that were willing to put up a fight will still do so. Gate-camps will still exist but will employ different tactics.
Or am I missing something here?
BTW. "Warp to 0" is still a big "?". We don't know if it will make it to TQ until a dev says so.
Do you have any idea how long (and how much ammo) it takes to kill a battleship with a solo AF? 50% more battleship is 50% longer for him to get to gate (very... very.. slowly), 50% longer for me to tank him with an already stressed cap, 50% longer for a casual traveler or his friends to come screw it up
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:35:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/11/2006 12:36:27
Originally by: doctorstupid2
EDIT: to clarify, this goes beyond gate camping. I'm pretty fond of roaming solo or in gangs of no more than 3 t2 frigates. Where do we find most kills? at gates. Do we stick around and camp it? hell no, [un]lucky timing gets most of the kills. I hate gate camping, please don't force us to blob with bubbles to have fun
You know, this has more to do with the fact that most people dont even go to low sec because they feel there is not enough rewards for the risks. If low sec was very profitable, you would see alot more players willing to risk their necks.
I think with Kali and the new Exploration, alot more people will be curious about what the low sec systems has to offer. So hopefully you will see MORE player activity in these systems instead of less. And the new improved system scanning will hopefully make it easy to find other players and warp to them. I hope thats the way it will turn out if ccp plays its cards right.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:38:00 -
[253]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Do you have any idea how long it takes to kill a battleship with a solo AF? 50% more battleship is 50% longer for him to get to gate (very... very.. slowly), 50% longer for me to tank him with an already stressed cap, 50% longer for a casual traveler or his friends to come screw it up
Well. There's that.
At least you'll get less people warping of in their HAC with 10% structure left when you have 3 points worth of scramblers on them.
|
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:38:00 -
[254]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 04/11/2006 12:44:04
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/11/2006 12:36:27
Originally by: doctorstupid2
EDIT: to clarify, this goes beyond gate camping. I'm pretty fond of roaming solo or in gangs of no more than 3 t2 frigates. Where do we find most kills? at gates. Do we stick around and camp it? hell no, [un]lucky timing gets most of the kills. I hate gate camping, please don't force us to blob with bubbles to have fun
You know, this has more to do with the fact that most people dont even go to low sec because they feel there is not enough rewards for the risks. If low sec was very profitable, you would see alot more players willing to risk their necks.
I think with Kali and the new Exploration, alot more people will be curious about what the low sec systems has to offer. So hopefully you will see MORE player activity in these systems instead of less. And the new improved system scanning will hopefully make it easy to find other players and warp to them. I hope thats the way it will turn out if ccp plays its cards right.
I was referring more to 0.0, I don't really care about Jack and Jill Everynoob going into low sec.
It's not really an unwillingness to adapt my tactics, it's just unfortunate that the way we'll be forced to change this incredibly fun play style is whined about more on the forums than almost anything else: Blobs..... Blobs and bubbles.
PS: im really bad at posting apparently, ive edited each one of my posts with an after-thought
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:42:00 -
[255]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 I was referring more to 0.0, I don't really care about Jack and Jill Everynoob going into low sec.
And who in 0.0 doesn't have a set of instas already besides the rare random crap loot carrying n00b who wanders in every now and then?
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:45:00 -
[256]
Originally by: doctorstupid2
PS: im really bad at posting apparently, ive edited each one of my posts with an after-thought
I can honestly say that I do that for about 75% of my posts too. All the cool people do it. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:45:00 -
[257]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 04/11/2006 12:45:27
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: doctorstupid2 I was referring more to 0.0, I don't really care about Jack and Jill Everynoob going into low sec.
And who in 0.0 doesn't have a set of instas already besides the rare random crap loot carrying n00b who wanders in every now and then?
A pretty decent amount, especially when in hostile or distant territory. Not all of us stay in our sovereign space mining, you know
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:48:00 -
[258]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 04/11/2006 12:45:27
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: doctorstupid2 I was referring more to 0.0, I don't really care about Jack and Jill Everynoob going into low sec.
And who in 0.0 doesn't have a set of instas already besides the rare random crap loot carrying n00b who wanders in every now and then?
A pretty decent amount, especially when in hostile or distant territory. Not all of us stay in our sovereign space mining, you know
True 'nuff.. But look on the bright side.. now your invasions to hostile un-insta territory will be a bit easier!
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:53:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 04/11/2006 12:45:27
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: doctorstupid2 I was referring more to 0.0, I don't really care about Jack and Jill Everynoob going into low sec.
And who in 0.0 doesn't have a set of instas already besides the rare random crap loot carrying n00b who wanders in every now and then?
A pretty decent amount, especially when in hostile or distant territory. Not all of us stay in our sovereign space mining, you know
True 'nuff.. But look on the bright side.. now your invasions to hostile un-insta territory will be a bit easier!
True
I just don't want to see so much fun thrown away because of people getting owned by low-sec snipers. The combination of warp to 0 and 50% more ship to kill will really make things.... interesting
|
Lojik
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:54:00 -
[260]
I agree to them putting in warp to 0km in low sec and in High sec, but i still think that 0.0 gates should not be accessable with warp to 0km.
reason: if it was to go by the storyline, 0.0 is meant to be unkown space and therfore there shoud be no data on where the stargates EXACTLY are, but your onboard computer can predict 15km range.
Just my 2 cents
Lojik
|
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:55:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Alha Qmar If u know that 30%+ kills come from gate kills, where enemy has to slowboat towards it. Then u must be really retarted to eliminate that kind of pvp completely.
Oh give it up! Your enemy will already be using instas so won't slow boat it anyway.
The only targets you'll catch "slowboating toward a gate" at the moment is noobs, idiots and afk pilots. If those are the only targets you know how to destroy you should be ashamed. OTOH most of those people will still be slowboating anyway because the autopilot is still warping at 15k.
The only ships you won't destroy are those piloted by people who know what they are doing..and you can't destroy those now anyway.
You can even continue to pretend you're a big bad pirate if you want -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:06:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Lojik I agree to them putting in warp to 0km in low sec and in High sec, but i still think that 0.0 gates should not be accessable with warp to 0km.
reason: if it was to go by the storyline, 0.0 is meant to be unkown space and therfore there shoud be no data on where the stargates EXACTLY are, but your onboard computer can predict 15km range.
Just my 2 cents
Lojik
This doesn't actually make sense though, because stargates don't just exist in EVE, they're built. Someone had to fly out there and build them, and every accessible system has to have them in it. The point of 0.0 is it was created when everyone when gate crazy, but then it was realized there was no way to police or control the majority of that space, and so the gates have just been left out there - out of sight, out of mind of the Empire's and they don't care what the capsuleers do out there - provided of course, it doesn't come back to them.
Sorry, got a bit storyteller there, but my point is this isn't a very compelling RP reason for not having warp to 0.
Personally, I think having Warp to 0 be a player activated action is RP consistent because it implies a capsuleer is manually controlling the warp parameters to land him right on top of his destination (and with some forethought, CCP will make it so we don't land inside things like we do now).
From a gameplay perspective though, everyone already has instas for 0.0 anyway. In fact my first set of instas was acquired when I joined a 0.0 alliance.
--- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good! |
Shameless Avenger
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:17:00 -
[263]
Warp to 0Km?! Yes.... I love it! I love it! I love it! This is even better than the skill queue! Quafe(with rum) for all the developers! |
Pesadel0
Vagabundos
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:23:00 -
[264]
I aprove this change ,with the ability to drop bubbles.
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:23:00 -
[265]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 04/11/2006 13:24:33 I'll quote myself from the thread about this in kali feedback forums:
Originally by: Rod Blaine
There's two reasons that CCP haven't accounted for to make me absolutely disagree with implementation of this new 'warp to 0km':
1. Everyone in high sec that doesn't mind doing the odd logoffski is now actually totally invulnerable while travelling as long as he doesn't go afk. Add being in an NPC corp and we've got a pvp flag in effect in high sec for travelling purposes.
NOT ******* GOOD
2. instadocking anywhere at any time should never be possible, period. It's been irritating since day one and should not be allowed.
CCP should not implement this option in high sec space, and should not allow warp to 0km for stations.
In short: this change is no good as it is now. Wasn't this exactly why it was axed last time ?
Old blog |
Commoner
Caldari The Foundation of Free Traders The Core Collective
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:35:00 -
[266]
Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 08:18:28
Originally by: LWMaverick bye bye gate piracy...
Now introduce bubbles in low sec thanks..
Hit the nail on the head, without pvp at stations or gates in low sec, low sec may as well be high sec.
I really do wonder how eve will continue with maybe 75% of PVP areas removed like this.
edit: yes im a pirate whiner, but hey, I enjoy it
While a novell thought, doing this would almost completely wipe out the boundry between lowsec and nosec.
If there was the ability to deploy bubbles in lowsec, you would probably see even less targets in lowsec.
So basically if game mechanics allowed bubbles in lowsec the risk/reward ratio of lowsec would be to low.
With this in mind tiller, what would you do to encourage people to go to lowsec, if bubbles were introduced?.
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:38:00 -
[267]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 13:39:33
Originally by: Commoner
Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 08:18:28
Originally by: LWMaverick bye bye gate piracy...
Now introduce bubbles in low sec thanks..
Hit the nail on the head, without pvp at stations or gates in low sec, low sec may as well be high sec.
I really do wonder how eve will continue with maybe 75% of PVP areas removed like this.
edit: yes im a pirate whiner, but hey, I enjoy it
While a novell thought, doing this would almost completely wipe out the boundry between lowsec and nosec.
If there was the ability to deploy bubbles in lowsec, you would probably see even less targets in lowsec.
So basically if game mechanics allowed bubbles in lowsec the risk/reward ratio of lowsec would be to low.
With this in mind tiller, what would you do to encourage people to go to lowsec, if bubbles were introduced?.
A medal system for killing outlaws Lvl5 missions in low sec only Regions linked with low sec routes only
Seriously, bubbles are going to far for low sec, just give us back non stacking sensors.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:40:00 -
[268]
Great change, it really is. Cant wait to see the effects on tranquility, hope with the other changes it will all balance out between carebears and pirates.
**** need to make a new sig... |
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:43:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Sir Juri Great change, it really is. Cant wait to see the effects on tranquility, hope with the other changes it will all balance out between carebears and pirates.
lol, how do you calculate balance between carebears and pirates. What are you talking about ?
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:47:00 -
[270]
Originally by: tiller
Originally by: Sir Juri Great change, it really is. Cant wait to see the effects on tranquility, hope with the other changes it will all balance out between carebears and pirates.
lol, how do you calculate balance between carebears and pirates. What are you talking about ?
Both happy=balanced. Of course, that will never happen.
|
|
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:49:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Sir Juri on 04/11/2006 13:50:31
Originally by: tiller
Originally by: Sir Juri Great change, it really is. Cant wait to see the effects on tranquility, hope with the other changes it will all balance out between carebears and pirates.
lol, how do you calculate balance between carebears and pirates. What are you talking about ?
Im talking about risk vs reward jada, jada, jada. With stab changes insta changes scanning changes with probes changes and other changes. If you look at this insta change warp to 0km it might seem unfair but in the larger scheeme it balances out itself, I hope that anyway. Well see when Kali comes wont we, then we can cry if im wrong.
Man I cant wait to never have to care about instas again, and all the problems with them.
edit; Besides almost everyone I encountered as a pirate had instas 90%of the time anyway, and about balance, well all cant be happy cause its subjective but that doesnt mean it cant be balanced.
**** need to make a new sig... |
Sadist
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:51:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Lojik I agree to them putting in warp to 0km in low sec and in High sec, but i still think that 0.0 gates should not be accessable with warp to 0km.
reason: if it was to go by the storyline, 0.0 is meant to be unkown space and therfore there shoud be no data on where the stargates EXACTLY are, but your onboard computer can predict 15km range.
Just my 2 cents
Lojik
If it's unknown space, then why the hell does it have gates at all? òòòòòòòòòòòò
VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
|
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:53:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Lojik I agree to them putting in warp to 0km in low sec and in High sec, but i still think that 0.0 gates should not be accessable with warp to 0km.
reason: if it was to go by the storyline, 0.0 is meant to be unkown space and therfore there shoud be no data on where the stargates EXACTLY are, but your onboard computer can predict 15km range.
Just my 2 cents
Lojik
If it's unknown space, then why the hell does it have gates at all?
hahahaha funny, wazup lojik? I dont agree cause in 0.0 you have interdictors, bubbles and one day alliance sentries and more fun stuff. So might asswell have warp to 0km there to.
**** need to make a new sig... |
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:35:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Major Stormer Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Camp the OTHER side.
so instead of beeing able to chase someone you now can only surprise them by sitting on the other side of the gate.... 50% pvp gone then.
meh... ___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:37:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 04/11/2006 14:43:47
I hope CCP will re-think these actions before listing to the regular forum spammers defending this matter...
no more chasing ???? WTF CCP
0.1 - 0.4 useless
if bubbles and interdictorsbubles would be allowed in 0.1 - 0.4 then i support this matter and pirates can adapt.
but still .... no more chasing no no no no... doesnt that ruin the game ? atleast make warp to 0km only for gates (if you are jumping from a gate to a gate only so not from belt to gate etc) and to gangmembers. ___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
Securion Wolfheart
Caldari Semper Fidelis Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:54:00 -
[276]
Its fun to se all gatecampers giving themselfs cooler names like "pirate" or "sniper", etc. All you gatecampers are, and ever will be = Loosers. Pathetic half-humans. Every **** real pirate in the game laughs at you, and the rest of us want to have you all removed from the game completely. Every thing that makes your life more miserable is good news to me. In any other game out there you would be called griefers and have your accounts deleted. CCP is having too much patience with you *******s.
FLY YOUR **** SHIPS! Instead of hugging gates you ******* dolts. Whats wrong with you ppl, you have no skills at all?
-----====-----
Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:09:00 -
[277]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 15:12:26
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Its fun to se all gatecampers giving themselfs cooler names like "pirate" or "sniper", etc. All you gatecampers are, and ever will be = Loosers. Pathetic half-humans. Every **** real pirate in the game laughs at you, and the rest of us want to have you all removed from the game completely. Every thing that makes your life more miserable is good news to me. In any other game out there you would be called griefers and have your accounts deleted. CCP is having too much patience with you *******s.
FLY YOUR **** SHIPS! Instead of hugging gates you ******* dolts. Whats wrong with you ppl, you have no skills at all?
Ehh ?
So then MR PVP, where do you fight that we don't. Hmhmhmhhm, gates, stations, belts... where else ?
Ahhh, you arrange to all meet up at a safe spot and fight ?, thought as much.
PVP in eve is too limited to remove a whole area, eve is already far to limited in this respect.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:14:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Its fun to se all gatecampers giving themselfs cooler names like "pirate" or "sniper", etc. All you gatecampers are, and ever will be = Loosers. Pathetic half-humans. Every **** real pirate in the game laughs at you, and the rest of us want to have you all removed from the game completely. Every thing that makes your life more miserable is good news to me. In any other game out there you would be called griefers and have your accounts deleted. CCP is having too much patience with you *******s.
FLY YOUR **** SHIPS! Instead of hugging gates you ******* dolts. Whats wrong with you ppl, you have no skills at all?
I hope they ban you! Try beeing a pirate for 1 month and I can bet you'll change your mind.
PS: this change is a good change cause -EVERYONE GOT INSTAS ANYWAY!
**** need to make a new sig... |
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:17:00 -
[279]
Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 15:17:51
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Its fun to se all gatecampers giving themselfs cooler names like "pirate" or "sniper", etc. All you gatecampers are, and ever will be = Loosers. Pathetic half-humans. Every **** real pirate in the game laughs at you, and the rest of us want to have you all removed from the game completely. Every thing that makes your life more miserable is good news to me. In any other game out there you would be called griefers and have your accounts deleted. CCP is having too much patience with you *******s.
FLY YOUR **** SHIPS! Instead of hugging gates you ******* dolts. Whats wrong with you ppl, you have no skills at all?
I hope they ban you! Try beeing a pirate for 1 month and I can bet you'll change your mind.
PS: this change is a good change cause -EVERYONE GOT INSTAS ANYWAY!
I'd guess atm 90% of low sec traffic does not use instas. I know this to be true as I spend half my waking hours on low sec gates.
ps: all hail the new caldari BS, king sniper with nothing to snipe lol
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:23:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Sir Juri on 04/11/2006 15:24:50
Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 04/11/2006 15:17:51
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Its fun to se all gatecampers giving themselfs cooler names like "pirate" or "sniper", etc. All you gatecampers are, and ever will be = Loosers. Pathetic half-humans. Every **** real pirate in the game laughs at you, and the rest of us want to have you all removed from the game completely. Every thing that makes your life more miserable is good news to me. In any other game out there you would be called griefers and have your accounts deleted. CCP is having too much patience with you *******s.
FLY YOUR **** SHIPS! Instead of hugging gates you ******* dolts. Whats wrong with you ppl, you have no skills at all?
I hope they ban you! Try beeing a pirate for 1 month and I can bet you'll change your mind.
PS: this change is a good change cause -EVERYONE GOT INSTAS ANYWAY!
I'd guess atm 90% of low sec traffic does not use instas. I know this to be true as I spend half my waking hours on low sec gates.
ps: all hail the new caldari BS, king sniper with nothing to snipe lol
I stopped dooing pirating a few months ago, before that I pirated all the time everywhere. And 90% of the time my targets had instas and only kills I got was either noobs or other pirates, except a few random kills. If I be a pirate now only change I notice would be less lag in EVE with this fix.
With all changes coming I have a feeling it will be better then now, before they remove instas.
**** need to make a new sig... |
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:29:00 -
[281]
Well as lo3d3r said, a large percentage of eves very limited PVP 'arenas' is being removed. Where are all the guys who used to argue eve is a PVP game ?, it seems most people in this thread are just pure traders who dont want to fight.
Who will buy your ships and trade goods if no-one loses anything ?
I'm not gonna post any more...
to sum it up......
WTB hug module II to enhance my flower launchers.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:36:00 -
[282]
The interesting thing to me is that the Devs appear to be at least considering legitimizing a work around for their originally intended game mechanics that was never meant to exist.
Instas were never intended to be a part of the game. Warp to 15km is easily explainable from a technological perspective due to interference in the warp tunnel from static objects (although I still freak out when I warp through a planet).
As a fairly new player, I was amazed that the game even allowed me to place bookmarks in such a way that it allowed me to warp right on top of static objects.
The end result of this is that people have gotten used to something that was never intended to be a part of the game at all. There is a DEVBLOG from May 2005 that supports this. Now people have taken it for granted to the point that they expect to have something which the DEVs (according to the blog) originally viewed as something very near to an exploit.
Oveur wasn't wrong in his blog. This will only enhance the near invulnerability that players with instas currently enjoy. I've got both a hauler/trader/manufacturer character and a heavily PvP oriented pirate, so I'm faily unbiased in how I look at these changes.
Before I make my suggestion, let me just say that either way, I'll adapt. This is in no way a whine.
My hauler/trader will be glad for the ease with which he can now go anywhere he pleases, but a bit sad that all the honest to goodness fun I've had building relationships with my 0.0 customers in order to ensure my safety in exchange for providing them fairly priced goods will fall by the way side. My need to ask the local Alliances if it's safe to pass will greatly diminish. On the plus side, I can stop giving the discounts I was giving them to ensure my safety while travelling through their space. All in all, my trader's life will have gotten a lot easier, but the game will have also lost a lot of depth and cooperative play.
My pirate's life just got much more difficult. Other than using smart bombs (which are now much less effective due to the HP boost) there will be almost no way to kill players on the approach to the gate. Warp to 0 will allow people to warp to the nearest planet and warp to the gate from that planet. Being off vector will keep even warp bubbles from being effective.
As much as someone says that they've seen a BS snag a shuttle before it warped, I have serious doubts about that. I've put 3 x Sensor Boosters on a Rupture and failed to tackle shuttles. My Signature Analysis skill is only at 4, but I don't know how much the extra 5% will truly help. (Disclaimer: I'm playing from Iraq currently so network latency may have contributed to my issues).
And belts? No one goes to belts because they are dangerous. Most non-pirates in low sec are there to save travel time through less jumps.
So.. if you've read this far.. what's my suggestion?
Make the game work as it was originally intended and eliminate all bookmarks within 115km of an object that you can already warp to. This will eliminate instas and still allow snipe/spy points outside of that 115km radius.
Having played alongside snipers (I don't have the skills to try it myself yet) I know just how easily killable (with a little cooperative play) they are. The warp stab nerf will only increase that vulnerability.
Forcing the game mechanics to be what they were intended to be will force people to work together to accomplish what their desires.
To the DEVs.. you had the right idea with your original mechanics. Force people to play within that system and people will be forced to work together to travel safely.
This suggestion will accomplish the same purpose of getting rid of all the G2G instas as well.. so we'll see the same server benefits.
Instas are a convenience that was never meant to exist. Let's enforce that and find other ways to deal with the dangers of travel in Eve.
|
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:53:00 -
[283]
only phony pirates get hurt by this, the real ones who hunt their prey gain from Kali. the nerf to WCS means less ships stabbed into next week which means prey is easier to lock down and less chasing and gate camping is needed.
|
Daelin Blackleaf
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:04:00 -
[284]
I'd like to congratulate CCP for finally taking their nuts in hand and doing something about this.
Warp to 0 seems reasonable to me, not ideal but reasonable. Frankly I can't see why the pirates whine so. The majority of players have instas for all routes and areas outside of empire they travel (many will never go anywhere unless they have instas) which is effectively warp to 0 but killing the servers.
The only people who currently travel without instas are newbies, full-time PvPers, and those who cant get them, can't be bothered, or disagree with them on an ethical basis.
Don't panic, you'll still be able to gank newbs and haulers the same way you get the rest of us at the moment... by using (a small degree of) skill and thought.
I for one welcome the lessening of lag and what can only be discribed as a travel "grind".
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:04:00 -
[285]
Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 04/11/2006 16:04:37
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker only phony pirates get hurt by this, the real ones who hunt their prey gain from Kali. the nerf to WCS means less ships stabbed into next week which means prey is easier to lock down and less chasing and gate camping is needed.
Spoken like someone who hasn't pirated in low sec recently. What prey is it that you are referring to?
There is next to no reason for anyone to mine in low sec. I've pirated in 8 different Empire regions in the few months I've played and seen less low sec miners in belts than I can count on my fingers and toes. Most of that time was spent warping from system to system scanning belts looking for targets.
There are a few more ratters, but even then, I was lucky if I looked for 2-3 hours a night and found more than 2-3 targets.
The belts are not currently populated. The fact that people can get into and out of low sec systems is not likely to change the fact that the belts aren't populated.
As I said before, the main reason people go to low sec now is to take advantage of the fact that there are many routes that take less jumps to get from A to B if low sec is utilized.
The other primary reason people go to low sec is to take advantage of NPC trade good deals that are easier to find in low sec because of the increased risk and therefore lower volume. There are also some player made items that can be traded/hauled profitably in low sec.
The final reason some low sec systems are populated is because of the presence of good agents. Given that missions are spawned in safe space, the warp to zero option also makes the mission runners lives significantly easier.
For all of the people who use low sec for the reasons above, warp to zero represents a significant bonus to their play style.
It legitimizes a work around that never should have existed and means that the risk/reward for them is now greatly imbalanced as opposed to the player pirates who provide a significant portion of the risk in that equation.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:14:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
I for one welcome the lessening of lag and what can only be discribed as a travel "grind".
Space is big mmmkay. The idea that it takes a little while to travel is not a bad thing.
What happens if travel takes longer?
1. People get to know those that live and operate in what will become a smaller radius of systems for the average player who doesn't want to travel long distances.
2. Hauling trade goods actually takes work instead of instantly jumping several systems to drop things off.
3. The fact that freighters and industrials are slower than other ships actually means something instead of instas making their velocity meaningless.
4. A single freighter pilot with instas will no longer be able to hoard several trade routes which will spread the wealth.
5. People will be more encouraged to use scouts because they know they're going to have to approach the gate ahead at their normal velocity.
People have gotten used to the fact that instas make travel.. well.. instant. It shouldn't be that way.. and the fact that it is unbalances quite a few things about the game.
Current tactics have adapted to fit mechanics that were never intended.
This maintaining the status quo is not 'CCP finally taking their nuts in hand'.
This is copping out and giving in to the game breaking work arounds that currently exist.
|
Wun HungLo
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:32:00 -
[287]
I am not sure if this has been suggested before, but how about we keep the BM system but with the following changes:
1. Add "Warp to 0" option for High Sec systems. Let us all assume pod pilots have excellent charts for Empire gates. All BMs for Empire except for safe-spots and tactical BMs could be eliminated to the great joy of players and servers alike.
2. Keep "Warp to 15" for low sec and 0.0 as is. This allows low sec and 0.0 to retain a little of the risk factor.
3. Add "Warp to 0" for gang warps and gang members. it could be a short-term fix acceptable to nearly everyone.
I hope these changes could be implented with little trouble and would greatly ease lag associated with BMs and free up a lot of server space. It would also allow CCP to come up with a long term fix.
Just a suggestion.
|
Apolluon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:47:00 -
[288]
I don't really see the point of all the negative views on this.
Seriously, I'm by no means a PvPer, and every time I've gotten taken down with one exception (when I tried to get a retreiver on an alt with no BM's out of 8MG. /wave Euphoria Unleashed)...
Gate kills for me have always happened on the jump-in side.
All warping to 15 ever really did was:
A. Allow you to kill afk folks on autopilot. You still can, on the outgoing gate! B. Allow kills on players who haven't made enough cash for a complete g2g insta set, or joined a corporation that let them copy theirs.
Basically, on a warp-to-15 setup, the only people you were able to kill in low sec, autopiloters aside, were the ones who weren't really worth killing anyway. Anyone who had something worth taking... Had the BM's to make you sit there and feel stupid for sitting ont he wrong side of the gate anyway.
Apolluon
|
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:02:00 -
[289]
I have been waiting 3 years for the instas removal and now this???
well my 55mill pure combat char will be deleted, no one can have my stuff it will be deleted as well.
bye ccp, I had a nice time but this is simply too much ...
Greetings Grim |
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:10:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Grim Vandal I have been waiting 3 years for the instas removal and now this???
well my 55mill pure combat char will be deleted, no one can have my stuff it will be deleted as well.
bye ccp, I had a nice time but this is simply too much ...
sorry but I just dont believe you.
**** need to make a new sig... |
|
Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:32:00 -
[291]
Hi all,
I seriously dont understand the big deal to low sec and empire pirates.
They aint planning on nerfing newbie corps any time soon so just give up. Go wardec some 10 man corps and gank them at every chance. Just hit them on the outgoing rather than the incomming just like we do in 0.0.
If you truely want pvp, come out to 0.0 we all know empire is filled with anti pvp carebears and thats not likely to change. You might enjoy the two sided battles 0.0 has to offer and stay.
On another note I always enjoy 0.0 miner ganking, it will now be easier to get around with the new "warp to 0" option :).
, Pham Sirge
|
Thranduil Saralonde
Amarr TYRANTS
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:43:00 -
[292]
i welcome this change with open hands
|
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:50:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Major Stormer Oh yay. Only ever gatecamps ftw it seems then huh. Nevermind i liked pvp while it lasted.
Camp the OTHER side.
Oh, thats right they can't, the other side is in HIGH sec and they are just camping the choke points.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 17:50:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Grim Vandal I have been waiting 3 years for the instas removal and now this???
well my 55mill pure combat char will be deleted, no one can have my stuff it will be deleted as well.
bye ccp, I had a nice time but this is simply too much ...
sorry but I just dont believe you.
Me neither. He's just having a whine, quite pathetic really. After 3 years he's either thoroughly hooked to the game or was thinking of leaving anyway. I'm not far off that age so I know what I'm talking about.
@the lengthy poster earlier (the one writing from Iraq):You make some interesting points but like so many people you don't understand the people that play this game. You talk of forcing people to do stuff and that's where you're going wrong. This is a game. It's optional. People choose to pay to play and you cannot force them to do anything. They will do what they want and if the game makes it too hard they will quit. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Oxypower
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:04:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Oxypower on 04/11/2006 18:05:51 most of you are forgetting that the biggest loss of new players is the time that has to be put into traveling. i lost count of how many people i tried to get into the game only for them to quit a month later saying they spend 90% of the time going from place to place
|
Crux Australis
Reikoku
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:07:00 -
[296]
Only 3 words: about ******* time
I really hope that this change will make its way to TQ.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:25:00 -
[297]
Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 04/11/2006 18:29:53 Trust me.. I understand the people.. and I even understand what you haven't pointed out. It's more than a game.. it's a business. CCP will do what they feel will make them the most money in the long run.
Most of their serious player base is here for PvP of one form or another. That PvP takes many forms (market is often more vicious PvP than ship combat) but its competition either way.
The main draw for many of us into ship combat is the sense of real loss from dying and therefore the sense of real risk. Like Diablo 2 Hardcore, only the serious player is after that sort of thrill.
Eve is also unique in its complexity. That complexity is largely a result of the previous two and the fact that almost everything is player driven. But a lot of it is a result of the variety of possibly ship fittings and thus the many different ways to play 'Paper, Rock, Scissors' in space and see who comes out on top.
All of the above leads me to my final and most important draw. The player base itself. Eve holds onto to so many long term hardcore gamers specifically because of the unique challenges it presents. Eve demands a certain maturity from its players.
I have personally recommended Eve to several people and gotten them started playing the game for those reasons. THe people I have gotten to start playing this game are the dedicated gamers who have already started multiple accounts. They are hear because of the challenges, the risks, the patience, and the calculation required to succeed.
As I said before, I could go either way about this specific proposal, but I hate to see Eve 'dumbed down' for the sake of the few people who aren't patient enough to take the necessary time to travel. Those same people probably won't have the patience to wait around to train the necessary skills required to be successful either.
In the end, CCP will make the decision based on where they want to take the game. It's their game. They have that right. I'll adapt either way. The decision they make will have an impact (how large or small only time will tell) on the makeup of their player base. Certain players will get disgusted and leave, others will stay. That will be true regardless of which decision they make.
It's up to the Devs to determine which type of player they want to stay.. and which they want to leave. And in the end, that will probably largely be motivated by the profit margins. The decision will be made based on what they think will make them the most money.
And to the guy who suggested I don't understand the player base.. don't be an ass and suggest that you do and then follow it with a shortsighted opinion that only takes a certain type of player into account.
At least try and recognize the variety of reasons people find this game enjoyable.... not all of which are the same reasons you find it enjoyable. Some of us like it specifically because it's hard.
Either way, I'll adapt, and the new players coming in will wonder what all the fuss was about when people talk about the good (or bad depending on your perspective) old days when:
A) instas were possible
or
B) people actually had to warp to 15kms because warp to zero wasn't possible
|
Hohenheim OfLight
Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:30:00 -
[298]
Unfroutintly i have to say i agree with this move which proble means its a bad thing, as i have never agreed with any changes that have been made in the past.
The SUPER scepitcal side of me says this is ploy on ccp's part,
Phase one,
Look as if your giving in make warp to 0 an option.
Phase two,
Say its worked so well that they will be romving all bm's. After all you dont need them any more and the poor servers still have all that load every time we jump in.
Phase three,
Warp to 0 is killing eve it was huge mistake and now all your instas are gone where going back to warp at 15k.
Now dont get me wron ghtis wont ahppen over teh space of a week more like a year proble over 3 patches but eve is a longer term game and i am sure the evs think in the very long term when it comes to development.
Once all the instas are gone there wont be many with the hart to make them all again, if they can even be made, after all one you delted them all, you could put some code in makeing it imposable to make them.
Yours Mr Paro. ----------------------------------------------
Gone but not forgotten
|
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:36:00 -
[299]
Fact is, with that change I can jump into an agile ship and go from any station in low sec to any other station in low sec on the map, transport valuable stuff at zero risk and am unstoppable, even in war times.
Ok, the only risk could be a smartbomber in low sec. That's maybe something someone one should try. I mean someone must substain the danger of low sec travel. Hmm, tanking sentries with a smartbomb ship with remote support possible ? Hmm.
|
RIddIC
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:39:00 -
[300]
I agree with Tiller on this subject. www.evemafia.com
|
|
MeLoveYouLoooongTime
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:43:00 -
[301]
this is awsome... please keep this feature for Kali on Tranq CCP
|
Angry Alt
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:43:00 -
[302]
I'm sure it's been said, though I didn't read all replies but removing gate instas will help with game performance. The bookmark table is the biggest 'drain' on DB resources according to dev posts. If they only remove gate BMs, it's a great move to improve performance for everyone. Some may not like it, but it benefits the majority of players and overall game performance.
Removing instas completely = bad. Removing instas to gates will remove a TON of DB space and CPU utilization as has been mentioned by CCP.
|
Hinkledolph
Hinkledolph and K Associates The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:25:00 -
[303]
I don't see what the big deal, if you want to pirate move out to 0.0 and use a **** interdictor.
Not that hard.
|
chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:26:00 -
[304]
Didn't read this whole thread.
While I do not want to see bookmarks go totally, eliminating gate bm's with the addition of the 0km feature would be great. However, eliminating all current bookmarks and making us make new ones is a little extreme. There are strategic bm's that we have that we would have to remake as it is on the test server now. The old bm's do not work, only new ones you make.
If they just disabled being able to use a bm to a point within 500km or 100km of a gate that would eliminate the use of gate to gate instas.
|
Auron Shadowbane
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:32:00 -
[305]
add warp to 0 km for stations and gang mates too, jsut for uniformity...
and loose all the whiners who dont understand that this is NO difference to our current bms...
|
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:37:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Plutoinum Fact is, with that change I can jump into an agile ship and go from any station in low sec to any other station in low sec on the map, transport valuable stuff at zero risk and am unstoppable, even in war times.
Ok, the only risk could be a smartbomber in low sec. That's maybe something someone one should try. I mean someone must substain the danger of low sec travel. Hmm, tanking sentries with a smartbomb ship solo or with remote support possible ? Might kill warp to 0 incomers. Hmm.
Get yourself a nice set of instas and you can do that now.
|
pricecheqr
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:42:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane add warp to 0 km for stations and gang mates too, jsut for uniformity...
and loose all the whiners who dont understand that this is NO difference to our current bms...
Should log in to the test server before you start posting....
You can warp to 0 on everything on SISI right now.
|
mallina
Caldari DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:52:00 -
[308]
Worst change they've ever tried to implement and I hope they don't.
Instas were never meant to be there to begin with. It was "warp to 15km" for a reason, you know? You can argue that "everyone uses instas anyway" all you want. I don't, and I fly deepspace transports through hostile 0.0 with little or no difficulty. In fact, it sickens me how riskless it is already when all I have is a full rack of nanos and an MWD - having instas everywhere i'll be going is simply going to make me invunerable. I dont know about a lot of you, but part of the reason I play this game is because of the RISK involved.
With that change, I could fly a hauler through lowsec with ZERO RISK WHATSOEVER, and practically zero risk in 0.0 am I the only one who thinks theres something wrong with that?
What next? People appearing 0km from the gate when they jump through instead of 15? Instanced asteroid belts that cant be found unless you probe? Sec hits in 0.0? Sentry guns in 0.0 and CONCORD in lowsec?
RIP Eve ----------- Turbulance |
TomParad0x
Caldari adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:09:00 -
[309]
Edited by: TomParad0x on 04/11/2006 20:11:22
Originally by: Grim Vandal I have been waiting 3 years for the instas removal and now this???
well my 55mill pure combat char will be deleted, no one can have my stuff it will be deleted as well.
bye ccp, I had a nice time but this is simply too much ...
Honestly, if you delete that kind of char over this lag reducing feature, your an idiot and goodbye. However, like the other person that quoted you i don't believe you.
Honestly, i do not see why this is such a big deal... So it will make you low-sec pirates have to work harder to get some kills? ok? If that means reducing the lag and load on the DB, the so be it, i think its worth it...
As for people saying how this can be abused... You can already do it with instas! The only difference between this and instas are: Instas = lag, this dosnt. Sig offline till i fix my domain... |
Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:16:00 -
[310]
im all in favor of there being only warp to 15km and instas to gate disabled. this way, there will finally be a difference in mobility between a bs and a cruiser and a frigate.
Make ECCM viable! Give it 25% to scanning resolution! |
|
mallina
Caldari DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:28:00 -
[311]
Originally by: TomParad0x Edited by: TomParad0x on 04/11/2006 20:11:22
Originally by: Grim Vandal I have been waiting 3 years for the instas removal and now this???
well my 55mill pure combat char will be deleted, no one can have my stuff it will be deleted as well.
bye ccp, I had a nice time but this is simply too much ...
Honestly, if you delete that kind of char over this lag reducing feature...
Nerf space. being undocked creates lag. make it so you cant undock and all ore and npcs spawn inside station. less lag, and since less lag is good , everyone will be happy ----------- Turbulance |
Lucas Smaise
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:55:00 -
[312]
I will miss the instas but think that the gain is worth it.
The servers simply has to become more stable even if it means that we remove g2g instas.
Lucas Smaise |
Zurtur
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:02:00 -
[313]
I didnt read whole 12 pages but:
I dont like this changes because: 1) BMs why they ar ebad for lag are a part of the game for exactly how long now? 2) We are loosing part of a game because of server problems (not game/balance etc related) 3) If BMs are to be removed warp to 0 is the worts option of all.
Z
---
Reminder to all Icelanders - yes i know, and no it was not me who named this character. |
Gunship
Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:03:00 -
[314]
/me jump up and down, this gona be the best thing in eve for a long time.
There might be 100 other solutions, but this one is simple and hopefully bug free
So you want to join us? |
Victoria Zongo
Derelik Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:08:00 -
[315]
Very bad .. It nervs the smaller low sec pirates. What remains are blobs at the jump-ins, thats not really challenging or fun.
|
Max Grief
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:12:00 -
[316]
1) Nothing has changed 2) Adapt
its been said several times now, Camp the OTHER side of the gate.
This isn't hard, click approach, click jump, congradulations, you are now camping the other side of the gate.
any COMPITANT pilot can still grab a hauler before it warps (unless its a nano'ed blocade runner) You have to learn that some targets get away. Frigs, Interceptors. Even some cruisers.
Just deal with it. We have to deal with that out in 0.0 when we setup a gate camp..
Also with the HP changes i'm gonna throw this out there. THE SENTRIES DAMAGE HASN'T BEEN SCALED UP EITHER! in a 0.4 system for ****s and giggles i aggressed a station in a hurricane. Setup 1x 1600mm rolled plate II, 3 eanm II's 1 medium rep II Damage control Time before Ship destruction approx 4 minutes
in a BATTLECRUISER! All the pirates are angry, yet CCP has made it easier for you to tank the sentries at stations and gates....
so please stop the "pirating in low sec is dead" comments. Adapt... Nothing has really change, the only difference is that CCP can wipe the BM Tables clean and get rid of a bunch of lag.
PS BM's need to stay, tatical pounce points, Sniper Points and Obeseravtion points are a vital part of fleet PVP. you can't just cut em out. I'd be all for a Clean wipe of the BM tables, i'd have to either get my Can's from my SS's or scan them down using the new probes but to kill the lag, that would be worth it for me
|
Acerus Malum
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:14:00 -
[317]
I am of the "this is a terrible cop-out" school of thought.
Seriously, there were many better solutions for this. One of my favorites was a "science vessel" that's still strong enough to fight in combat, but also calculate warp vectors for their gangs (and do stuff with upcoming sciency Kali features). Even a dev commented that he liked the idea, but hey, whatever.
|
Max Grief
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:25:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Acerus Malum I am of the "this is a terrible cop-out" school of thought.
Seriously, there were many better solutions for this. One of my favorites was a "science vessel" that's still strong enough to fight in combat, but also calculate warp vectors for their gangs (and do stuff with upcoming sciency Kali features). Even a dev commented that he liked the idea, but hey, whatever.
Well i agree that a 'more thought out' style of thought could have gone into this.
I'm of the school of "Fix the **** lag not create new bugs" A science ship means a new model *note the hyperion model STILL isn't in or working* new skills that need testing. ect ect adding a 0km warp is just changing 1 variable, cop out? yes, but that probably only took mabey 30 min of programmer time to change and throw it through a quick QA test (yep warps me to jump/dock range, done and done) and to me thats perfeclty fine. Quick, simple solution to the problem it works, and kills lag (if they wipe the BM tables or clean up BM's around gates)
|
Victoria Zongo
Derelik Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:28:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Max Grief 1) Nothing has changed
Of course not much changed for the 10 person gank blobs .. but for a small pirate, oooh yes .. this means heavy changes.
You can't pick fights any longer cause you can't scan what is approaching the gate and only then warp to the gate. You need to dedicate 1 of 3 people in your gang to checking the other gate side? Sure .. Only about 1/3 of people in low sec have instas. Add to that that there is now an instant dock from every direction, so getting haulers at stations is only possible at station exits. The other side of the gate is high sec. The other side of a station is the hangar. Howto camp those, eh?
|
Max Grief
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:39:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Victoria Zongo
Originally by: Max Grief 1) Nothing has changed
Of course not much changed for the 10 person gank blobs .. but for a small pirate, oooh yes .. this means heavy changes.
You can't pick fights any longer cause you can't scan what is approaching the gate and only then warp to the gate. You need to dedicate 1 of 3 people in your gang to checking the other gate side? Sure .. Only about 1/3 of people in low sec have instas. Add to that that there is now an instant dock from every direction, so getting haulers at stations is only possible at station exits. The other side of the gate is high sec. The other side of a station is the hangar. Howto camp those, eh?
your first point, Yes you have risk now, welcome to the 0.0 style of PVP someone might come in with a big ass fleet and pound you. your a pirate you have to accept that there is risk involved you don't always win.
Point 2, yep, slap his but in jump range on the other side, as soon as the guy jumps through you jump through with him. Or use an alt. Again not a problem, see point #2, adapt
Point 3 I don't really have a rebuttle other than 2/3 of people are silly and should have had instas.
Pooint 4: See my tanking the sentries comment, Just nail em at the stations. Ceptor to bump them out of dock range + BS at sniper range ( i have seen this done to great effect)
point5: Move your camp one jump away from high sec, if its a choke system they still have to get there to get to high sec.
I will adjust my origional comment tho 1) nothing has changed against people with instas but #2 still rings true
ADAPT!
|
|
Acerus Malum
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:43:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Max Grief
Originally by: Acerus Malum I am of the "this is a terrible cop-out" school of thought.
Seriously, there were many better solutions for this. One of my favorites was a "science vessel" that's still strong enough to fight in combat, but also calculate warp vectors for their gangs (and do stuff with upcoming sciency Kali features). Even a dev commented that he liked the idea, but hey, whatever.
Well i agree that a 'more thought out' style of thought could have gone into this.
I'm of the school of "Fix the **** lag not create new bugs" A science ship means a new model *note the hyperion model STILL isn't in or working* new skills that need testing. ect ect adding a 0km warp is just changing 1 variable, cop out? yes, but that probably only took mabey 30 min of programmer time to change and throw it through a quick QA test (yep warps me to jump/dock range, done and done) and to me thats perfeclty fine. Quick, simple solution to the problem it works, and kills lag (if they wipe the BM tables or clean up BM's around gates)
Hmm, I was thinking of a T2 battleship, but that's a topic for another thread.
I'm willing to concede that this feature on the test server is just a "feeling out the waters" approach, but it had better be a bandaid fix. If it isn't ultimately fleshed out more, I will be... disappointed.
|
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:40:00 -
[322]
Its still a great idea, hope to read updates as it goes along.
What about other BM's? will the scanning system replace it all? how will the deleting of all BM's go about? will you wipe them all out for us? ... Well hope a blog will soon be out
**** need to make a new sig... |
Victoria Zongo
Derelik Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:49:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Max Grief Yes you have risk now, welcome to the 0.0 style of PVP
Lol, 0.0 .. been there, done that. Its far less risky than being outlaw in low sec. Try out both before attempting to educate people.
Your strategies might work for 0.0, but they are not good enough for low sec. Eg people don't dock in low sec stations, they just fly through, station camping brings you no targets.
Adapting? The working options so far are: "get a second account to spy the other gate side" and "join the gank blobs". Yay. Guess you missed to point where I explicitly said "small" and "pirate" instead "ganker". Or maybe it is just news that not all pirates gank at the high sec gates ..
|
Nicholai Pestot
Gallente Havoc Inc
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:07:00 -
[324]
Can sentry turret tracking be worsened to the point where they cant hit a MWD'ing friggy at 150 km now? ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
Max Grief
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:32:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Victoria Zongo
Originally by: Max Grief Yes you have risk now, welcome to the 0.0 style of PVP
Lol, 0.0 .. been there, done that. Its far less risky than being outlaw in low sec. Try out both before attempting to educate people.
Your strategies might work for 0.0, but they are not good enough for low sec. Eg people don't dock in low sec stations, they just fly through, station camping brings you no targets.
Adapting? The working options so far are: "get a second account to spy the other gate side" and "join the gank blobs". Yay. Guess you missed to point where I explicitly said "small" and "pirate" instead "ganker". Or maybe it is just news that not all pirates gank at the high sec gates ..
First off you clearly said,
"Add to that that there is now an instant dock from every direction, so getting haulers at stations is only possible at station exits."
so i suggested a stratagy to get people comming from stations. If you want to discuss people just moving through systems then say so.
and how is 0.0 less riskey? All of the fun .0 toys arn't deployable in low sec. eg static warp bubbles, interdictor probes. Not to mention most 0.0 groups now use carriers /w delegated fighters as a standard for gate camps. so your argument doesn't fly to well here either.
Also I never said get a second account was your only option, i said it was AN option. i also said having one of your gang sitting on the other side of the gate within jump range, target comes through he jumps through with him and engages with you on the other side (this is a common 0.0 tatic, force them through to your buddies on the other side or have your buddies on the otherside come through to you) this doesn't work if the other side is high sec but thats something we have to deal with too.
and yes. oh my goodness, sometimes you have to work together with other people to accomplish a goal. Teamwork = Good!
I'm just suggesting ways to deal with the 0km warp option as opposed to being unconstructive about it!
Thats the difference, I take what i know about how to catch targets, now remove catching them at the other gate and thinking of ways around it. Its called adapting and being constructive. Try it. It rocks!
lastly to your comment:
"Try out both before attempting to educate people."
I have done both. low sec has its own chalanges. in low sec generaly people are in an NPC/ traveling setup and arn't prepared for a PVP fight propperly. in 0.0 you can pretty well gurentee that if 3 or 4 guys jump into your camp. they don't have tractor beams fitted. ;) But in 0.0 we have warp bubbled and interdicters. in low sec you can't use ceptors as tackelers cause the sentries just insta pop em. But a 4xsensor boosted scorp /w scramblers fitted Does fill in the gap :P
|
Galen Kwai
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:17:00 -
[326]
Instas at the gates and stations should go. Other insta's will need to stay, safe spots, mining spots, gang spots for the useless but needed pirates (someone has to make all the ships we make needed ), etc.
Of all my insta's, the gate to gate instas and to station instas are by far the most numerous. The mining and ss, etc instas are all together much less than the gate to gate.
Hurray to CCP to make the gate and station insta's a thing of the past.
|
DeadDuck
Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:28:00 -
[327]
Actually I'm glad to see this feature being installed... I can get rid of +10.000 Bms ...and put all the players at the same level.... hoppefully removing hundreds of towsands of bms in big fleet battles will have a major impact in lag issues.
Very nice job CCP
|
Liru Okami
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:40:00 -
[328]
ahem... ::summons best Ackbar impresion:: It's a trap!
I smell something fishy a bait and switch comming in the form of 0km warps. people go and delete their bookmarks then poof ccp finds a "New" idea and puts things back the way they were.
things overlooked Gate cloak will allow people to warp without ever being locked.
heres an idea, if wcs is nered than hit scramblers the same way too discourage stacking ect. I welcome the change but i dont think it will last.
And for the whineing pirates (see pk) grow the frel up and stop camping and killing people without provocation.
|
Halapino
CAPITAL TRUST FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:58:00 -
[329]
Warp to 15km = pirating in low sec Warp to 0 km = gate camping in 0.0
Bad for pirates, good for PvP...
PS. Pirating isn't PvP imo |
Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:45:00 -
[330]
In 0.0, it probably won't make TOO much of a difference. But it will converge everybody around gates even more than it has, and you will sure see a lot more useage of warp bubbles and stationary gank fleets than before. Chasing is useless now, if they manage to warp away.... they're freakin gone.
But it sure does give near total invulnerability to certain ship classes in empire space. Shuttles, pods, and more nimble frigates are going to be uncatchable now. Same with haulers (or anything else really) using a good number of stabs. Doesn't matter which side of the gate you camp either. An interceptor can uncloak, align and warp faster than you can possibly target, lock, and activate a module to stop them.
I haven't had a chance to try it on the test server yet. But does using a 'dock' command when you need to warp to a station give you a 15km or 0km warp? Can you program the autopilot, warp manually, turn on the autopilot while IN warp and still get a 0km warp? Have people actually been testing how invulnerable it makes you having the 0km warp option? or have they just been happy not to get blown up?
|
|
Abyss Jack
Serial Chill3rz
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:47:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Victoria Zongo Very bad .. It nervs the smaller low sec pirates. What remains are blobs at the jump-ins, thats not really challenging or fun.
It doesn't nerf pirating at all, as you might know pirating means also killing belt carebaers. Camping in lowsec is nonsense anyway.
But i don't get why savespots don't work anymore? is it impossible to warp on custom bookmarks at 0km or is it a random bug, i can't test it myself on testserver... (it's down mostly or im in xxx line)
sig |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:55:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Hinkledolph I don't see what the big deal, if you want to pirate move out to 0.0 and use a **** interdictor.
Not that hard.
Except that it IS that hard as interdictor bubbles can only cover one vector. All anyone has to do to get around them is warp to a planet and come to the gate from that direction. With instas from everywhere, this will be insanely easy.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:01:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Plutoinum Fact is, with that change I can jump into an agile ship and go from any station in low sec to any other station in low sec on the map, transport valuable stuff at zero risk and am unstoppable, even in war times.
Ok, the only risk could be a smartbomber in low sec. That's maybe something someone one should try. I mean someone must substain the danger of low sec travel. Hmm, tanking sentries with a smartbomb ship solo or with remote support possible ? Might kill warp to 0 incomers. Hmm.
Get yourself a nice set of instas and you can do that now.
And ^^ that is exactly why the original game mechanics were in place. Why would anyone ever move anything of value (implants, BPOs, skill books etc) in anything other than a shuttle?
The newest alt will be able to spend 9,000 isk and move all of those things around with complete and total immunity. Need more cargo space? Take your rookie ship.. it'll allow you to move mods as well.
No need for cov ops anymore. Just create a new alt near the hub you want to buy stuff from and delete him (we wouldn't want to inconvenience ourselves by having to ACTUALLY fly him back to the hub would we?) after you get your stuff dropped off to you in low sec or 0.0.
I'm not sure people aren't seeing just how damaging that would be.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:06:00 -
[334]
As for people saying how this can be abused... You can already do it with instas! The only difference between this and instas are: Instas = lag, this dosnt.
Actually.. this is much worse. Alt's that were created at or near trade hubs didn't have instas before. People didn't have instas from every vector, even their safe spots before.
What's to stop me from making a random tactical safe spot in a direction totally opposite from all planets etc at a gate. I can now warp to 0 from that safe spot and never have to worry about bubbles, pilots with smart bombs, or any of the other things on the near side. In a small ship, I'm completely invincible on the far side as well.
In fact, I predict if this change goes through, you'll get a whole new market of bookmark sellers. Those that create safe spots such as the ones I just described for every gate in low sec.
Complete travel immunity for all!! YEAH!!!
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:10:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Max Grief Edited by: Max Grief on 04/11/2006 21:40:04 any COMPITANT pilot can still grab a hauler before it warps (unless its a nano'ed blocade runner) You have to learn that some targets get away. Frigs, Interceptors. Even some cruisers.
Just deal with it. We have to deal with that out in 0.0 when we setup a gate camp..
I agree with you. Even a nano'd blockade runner should be snaggable. Explain to me again why anyone would ever move anything other than ships in a hauler ever again?
I'll just move stuff around in rookie ships with my 800,000 skill point alts that I just created for that express purpose and will delete as soon as I'm done with them.
|
Xeoz
The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:20:00 -
[336]
I fully support this change! Thank you CCP for finally hearing what we've all been saying for so long! I would happily give up every bookmark I have for this feature. Please pay no attention to the whiney pirates and noob farmers, they are a minority. Every other player in eve supports this idea.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:26:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Max Grief
First off you clearly said,
"Add to that that there is now an instant dock from every direction, so getting haulers at stations is only possible at station exits."
so i suggested a stratagy to get people comming from stations. If you want to discuss people just moving through systems then say so.
[\quote]
Even catching them at stations while undocking isn't really an options as they'll just redock unless it's one of the very small percentage of stations that you have to move to redock.
Originally by: Max Grief
and how is 0.0 less riskey? All of the fun .0 toys arn't deployable in low sec. eg static warp bubbles, interdictor probes. Not to mention most 0.0 groups now use carriers /w delegated fighters as a standard for gate camps. so your argument doesn't fly to well here either. [\quote]
Having done both.. 0.0 is RIDICULOUSLY less hard than low sec as an outlaw. Low sec as an outlaw, everyone else gets to dictate when the battle begins. This means they dictate starting range, whether or not you are webbed and scrammed before they attack etc. You can't do those things in small ships because the guns will pop you. Don't preach to me about your 0.0 tactics like they make you 1337. There are many more tactical thngs to consider in low sec than 0.0.
Warp bubbles etc are easy to avoid as it is, they'll become obsolete with the 'Warp to 0' from a random safe spot option.
Originally by: Max Grief
and yes. oh my goodness, sometimes you have to work together with other people to accomplish a goal. Teamwork = Good! [\quote]
Glad we agree on that. Delete all bookmarks within 115km of an object that you can already warp to. Never allow BMs to be made in those areas again.
Encourage players to build alliances with those around them and fly with scouts and fleet escorts.
Teamwork = Good!
Originally by: Max Grief
Thats the difference, I take what i know about how to catch targets, now remove catching them at the other gate and thinking of ways around it. Its called adapting and being constructive. Try it. It rocks! [\quote]
The difference is what you know is obviously very limited and didn't stretch to include the fact that the other guy will adapt as well. Tell me again how you plan on catching the guy in a shuttle or frig who warps to 0 from a random safe spot well away from any other known possible vectors? Everyone else will adapt as well and this 'feature' will guarantee immunity for those in small ships.
Originally by: Max Grief
lastly to your comment:
"Try out both before attempting to educate people."
I have done both. low sec has its own chalanges. in low sec generaly people are in an NPC/ traveling setup and arn't prepared for a PVP fight propperly. in 0.0 you can pretty well gurentee that if 3 or 4 guys jump into your camp. they don't have tractor beams fitted. ;) But in 0.0 we have warp bubbled and interdicters. in low sec you can't use ceptors as tackelers cause the sentries just insta pop em. But a 4xsensor boosted scorp /w scramblers fitted Does fill in the gap :P
Your warp bubbles are now obsolete and your 4 x sensor boosted scorp still can't catch a shuttle. Better start on that 'adapting' thing you invented.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:32:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Xeoz I fully support this change! Thank you CCP for finally hearing what we've all been saying for so long! I would happily give up every bookmark I have for this feature. Please pay no attention to the whiney pirates and noob farmers, they are a minority. Every other player in eve supports this idea.
/me murmurs something about your need to reread your own sig.
|
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:39:00 -
[339]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Hinkledolph I don't see what the big deal, if you want to pirate move out to 0.0 and use a **** interdictor.
Not that hard.
Except that it IS that hard as interdictor bubbles can only cover one vector. All anyone has to do to get around them is warp to a planet and come to the gate from that direction. With instas from everywhere, this will be insanely easy.
camp the exit side of the gate ****face. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:48:00 -
[340]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 05/11/2006 02:48:58 Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 05/11/2006 02:47:52 Is it just me, or am I the only person here who knows how to use dictor spheres properly...
with a 40km warp scrambling range, when placed in the center of a gate, it'll catch 99% of all incoming traffic... add a few sniper batleships and you have risk free gate camping, this does not change with warp to 0km
Really, it's lo sec and empire wars, which suffer, but to be perfectly honest, low sec pirary is done in the belts... Currently anyone with a clue uses instas to travel between low sec now anyway and if there stupid enough to autopilot it.... guess what, no chnage, you'll be able to snipe these idoits in kali just as you do now.
So please stop the *****ing because this is an awesome change.
(waits for CCP to allow warp to ship at SS without scan probes change...) Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:55:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Hinkledolph I don't see what the big deal, if you want to pirate move out to 0.0 and use a **** interdictor.
Not that hard.
Except that it IS that hard as interdictor bubbles can only cover one vector. All anyone has to do to get around them is warp to a planet and come to the gate from that direction. With instas from everywhere, this will be insanely easy.
camp the exit side of the gate ****face.
This is laughable. People show up in random locations on the exit side of a gate. I was 48km away from the last bubble I saw when I jumped into system.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:57:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 05/11/2006 02:48:58 Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 05/11/2006 02:47:52 Is it just me, or am I the only person here who knows how to use dictor spheres properly...
with a 40km warp scrambling range, when placed in the center of a gate, it'll catch 99% of all incoming traffic... add a few sniper batleships and you have risk free gate camping, this does not change with warp to 0km
Really, it's lo sec and empire wars, which suffer, but to be perfectly honest, low sec pirary is done in the belts... Currently anyone with a clue uses instas to travel between low sec now anyway and if there stupid enough to autopilot it.... guess what, no chnage, you'll be able to snipe these idoits in kali just as you do now.
So please stop the *****ing because this is an awesome change.
(waits for CCP to allow warp to ship at SS without scan probes change...)
So only the 1337 0.0 pirates should be allowed to camp at gates? What a joke...
Perhaps I just haven't yet encountered a well laid 0.0 interdictor bubble, but what you've described doesn't match reality based on what I've seen from the target's perspective. And since I can't fly dictors myself yet, I can't test it.
|
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:57:00 -
[343]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Hinkledolph I don't see what the big deal, if you want to pirate move out to 0.0 and use a **** interdictor.
Not that hard.
Except that it IS that hard as interdictor bubbles can only cover one vector. All anyone has to do to get around them is warp to a planet and come to the gate from that direction. With instas from everywhere, this will be insanely easy.
camp the exit side of the gate ****face.
This is laughable. People show up in random locations on the exit side of a gate. I was 48km away from the last bubble I saw when I jumped into system.
Your never suppost to be more than 20km from the center of the gate. the bubble was most likely missplaced or put inline to catch warp ins to the gate like mobile disruptor bubbles. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 03:00:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Your never suppost to be more than 20km from the center of the gate. the bubble was most likely missplaced or put inline to catch warp ins to the gate like mobile disruptor bubbles.
Even if this were true.. and it very well may have been. Warp bubbles are now worthless... and they still only impact 0.0 which is a VERY small percentage of Eve pilots.
|
Verone
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 03:08:00 -
[345]
I've been thinking about this for a while before replying... and I think it's a good thing.
It's still very easy to catch people in 0.0 with bubbles and interdictor spheres, no significant change there as most people use instas out there anyway.
In lowsec, with the nerf to sniping, stabs and the changes to ship hp, it's going to draw "pirates" away from sitting on a gate all day ganking rookies and into the belts with the rest of the real pirates, where they actually have some risk, and have to... shock horror... PvP.
The only problem I can see is with wars in empire, where dictor spheres and bubbles can't be used.
Then again, it's simply a matter of catching people when they uncloak to warp, rather than as they drop out of warp on a gate.
As usual, whining will happen, however the community will adapt once the mechanics are in place.
WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
|
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 03:10:00 -
[346]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
So only the 1337 0.0 pirates should be allowed to camp at gates? What a joke...
Yes, they're generally called alliances.
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator Perhaps I just haven't yet encountered a well laid 0.0 interdictor bubble,.
You probably haven't by the sounds of it.
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator but what you've described doesn't match reality based on what I've seen from the target's perspective. And since I can't fly dictors myself yet, I can't test it.
I have, I can, I did, and it does.
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Even if this were true.. and it very well may have been. Warp bubbles are now worthless... and they still only impact 0.0 which is a VERY small percentage of Eve pilots.
They have been worthless ever since interdictors came out tbh.
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Max Grief
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 05:03:00 -
[347]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Even catching them at stations while undocking isn't really an options as they'll just redock unless it's one of the very small percentage of stations that you have to move to redock. --------- Having done both.. 0.0 is RIDICULOUSLY less hard than low sec as an outlaw. Low sec as an outlaw, everyone else gets to dictate when the battle begins. This means they dictate starting range, whether or not you are webbed and scrammed before they attack etc. You can't do those things in small ships because the guns will pop you. Don't preach to me about your 0.0 tactics like they make you 1337. There are many more tactical thngs to consider in low sec than 0.0. ------------- Warp bubbles etc are easy to avoid as it is, they'll become obsolete with the 'Warp to 0' from a random safe spot option. ----------------- The difference is what you know didn't stretch to include the fact that the other guy will adapt as well. Tell me again how you plan on catching the guy in a shuttle or frig who warps to 0 from a random safe spot well away from any other known possible vectors? Everyone else will adapt as well and this 'feature' will guarantee immunity for those in small ships. ------------------- Your warp bubbles are now obsolete and your 4 x sensor boosted scorp still can't catch a shuttle. Better start on that 'adapting' thing you invented.
Ok For starters Post with your main. We are all grown ups here stop the alt smack talk. If this is your main have some stones and click the "show corperation" button.
If you bothered to read my first post /w regards to this (which you obviously didn't) you would have noticed i said you have someone in a ceptor (or nano'phoon) bump the guy out of dock range then open up. If they redock. well.. they are the ones that need to leave, if they want to go some place... they only have one exit. Its a battle of who will get bored first and either log or move on.
To your point about people dictating the battle conditions to you. Congradulations you choose the pirate profession. There are Ups and downs to this. One is that your flashing red and anyone gets the right to swing first. Your the one playing this play style so its not anyone's fault but your own.
Also where in the above posts did i use the words "I R T3H BEST J00 R T3h SUX0RS" I said there are different tatics and stratagies that are used out in 0.0. Some more nasty toys that come into play. I never said i was the best PVP'er in eve or that i have 1337 pvp skills cause i'm not and i don't. But I clearly know more about some things than you, because as several posters by now have made paifuly clear, you don't even know how an interdictor bubble works....
Again also if you had bothered to read my earlier posts instead of grabbing the troll club you would have again noticed that i said "Some targets like small frigs, interceptors and shuttles" are **** near hard to catch. even with bubbles + carriers + whatever. Infact the only way so far i have found to grab em is to use a sensor boosted thrasher /w quake loaded and just annihilate em before they even can get into warp.
and that really doesn't work that well in low sec.
Lastly, What the hell is a freaking shuttle/tech I frig going to do to you in low sec bump you to death? ninja mine jaspet? They can only carry so much loot. If they are just using it to get to a mission, then they will at some point climb into their battleship and go run the mission. You follow, break out the scan probes and grab them in the mission.
Also i never said that 0.0 is low sec piracy was easy easy, or that 0.0 is balls out hard. I said that 0.0 wasn't a cake walk either when it was suggested it is, because unlike low sec, people out in 0.0 are there to actualy fight, not just to snipe haulers and run the second something that can actualy shoot back appears.
I'm simply posting a rebuttal to all the "low sec pirating is dead" comments in this thread
|
Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 05:18:00 -
[348]
The issue is simple.
0km warp is to everything you can do. Planets, stations, gates ...........
History lesson. It use to be a 5km jump with a 10km warp and on the jump in point you ended up away from the next gate. Soo there was no more running back to jump back. You had to warp to something. I personally would love this back.
Please revert back to Genesis on gates CCP. Where you jump into a system at a random spot in a system and the next gate is warpable to.
This is the best solution in removing BM for g2g. combat then will be encouraged away from sentries and 0.4-0.0 will become hostile like it should.
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
|
Rak'Kabal Kain
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 05:30:00 -
[349]
warp to 0 changes the game for the better
low sec Gate camping BS pilots will have a hard time tryin to get kills and maybe just maybe learn how to pirate 4 real and work the belts :SHOCK:
not many will run WCS in kali, and you only need a inty with a sensor booster and 1 * 20km scram to stop ppl VC |
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 05:47:00 -
[350]
My name is Matrix Aran, and I endorse warp to 0.
Honestly if you are a pirate, and you don't already know how to deal with people with instas, you need to go buy the bigest faction/officer clue you can find. Enough said. ----
|
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 07:43:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Max Grief
Ok For starters Post with your main. We are all grown ups here stop the alt smack talk. If this is your main have some stones and click the "show corperation" button.
This is my main, and if you care what corporation I am in, there is a function in game that will allow you to look it up.
Originally by: Max Grief
If you bothered to read my first post /w regards to this (which you obviously didn't) you would have noticed i said you have someone in a ceptor (or nano'phoon) bump the guy out of dock range then open up. If they redock. well.. they are the ones that need to leave, if they want to go some place... they only have one exit. Its a battle of who will get bored first and either log or move on.
Bumping to get someone out of dock/jump range is ridiculously ineffective. Unless they are afk or TOTAL noobs this is a totally useless tactic.
Originally by: Max Grief
To your point about people dictating the battle conditions to you. Congradulations you choose the pirate profession. There are Ups and downs to this. One is that your flashing red and anyone gets the right to swing first. Your the one playing this play style so its not anyone's fault but your own.
I'm happy where I'm at and with the conditions I have to deal with. I'm also not trying to convince people that 0.0 is harder than being outlaw in low sec. At least it seems as if you have learned the error of your original position based on the above post.
Originally by: Max Grief
Also where in the above posts did i use the words "I R T3H BEST J00 R T3h SUX0RS" I said there are different tatics and stratagies that are used out in 0.0. Some more nasty toys that come into play. I never said i was the best PVP'er in eve or that i have 1337 pvp skills cause i'm not and i don't. But I clearly know more about some things than you, because as several posters by now have made paifuly clear, you don't even know how an interdictor bubble works....
... Or fails to work. I've successfully passed through many many failed attempts to snare me with an interdictor bubble. As I said to the guy about the bubbles, maybe they have all just been poorly employed. 0.0 is MUCH easier than outlaw in low sec.
Originally by: Max Grief
"Some targets like small frigs, interceptors and shuttles" are **** near hard to catch. even with bubbles + carriers + whatever. Infact the only way so far i have found to grab em is to use a sensor boosted thrasher /w quake loaded and just annihilate em before they even can get into warp.
and that really doesn't work that well in low sec.
Lastly, What the hell is a freaking shuttle/tech I frig going to do to you in low sec bump you to death? ninja mine jaspet? They can only carry so much loot. If they are just using it to get to a mission, then they will at some point climb into their battleship and go run the mission. You follow, break out the scan probes and grab them in the mission.
The point is that no one should be that invulnerable. A shuttle is supposed to be a convenience, not invulnerability. 9000 isk an zero skills for invulnerability is unlike anything else in Eve. You haven't bothered to counter my original suggestion.
Enforce game mechanics. Eliminate Bookmarks within 115km of objects you can work to. DOn't allow the workarounds.
Originally by: Max Grief
Also i never said that 0.0 is low sec piracy was easy easy, or that 0.0 is balls out hard. I said that 0.0 wasn't a cake walk either when it was suggested it is, because unlike low sec, people out in 0.0 are there to actualy fight, not just to snipe haulers and run the second something that can actualy shoot back appears.
I live in 0.0 now. The environment isn't that different. Quit generalizing. I spent the majority of my time belt hunting. I only turned to gate camping because of a disgusting lack of targets.
Most of us low sec pirates don't fit your stereotypes.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:02:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Matrix Aran My name is Matrix Aran, and I endorse warp to 0.
Honestly if you are a pirate, and you don't already know how to deal with people with instas, you need to go buy the bigest faction/officer clue you can find. Enough said.
The point is that instas were never supposed to be a part of the game. And instas are nowhere NEAR as broken as 'Warp to 0'.
I spent the first 3.5 months of my Eve career hunting belts. I did so in 8+ different regions in Empire and the majority of the time maintained a near 0 sec status to prevent scaring of the locals.
In that time, I found far less than 20 miners in low sec belts. Ratters were a bit more common, but less than 50 seems about right. This is with way too much time on my hands and playing 8+ hours a day.
I'm a new pilot and only just recently learned how to fly a BS. Until that time, I did my camping in a T1 cruiser.. in low sec. (There is a thread about it in the Crime and Punishment forum if you care to read about my tactics and fittings to make this possible).
Eventually, I graduated from that and tried fitting BS's, but they just ended up annoying me because the lock times were so slow. This will only be exacerbated when it's impossible to catch anything at all on the near side of a gate and you'll have to hope to get lucky and snag things before they warp on the far side.
Everyone has made it sound like low sec gate camps are near impossible to break and are something to be afraid of. This just plain isn't true. They are easy to break in all but the slowest of ships. From here on out, all BPOs etc will be moved in shuttles and will never ever get lost.
I'm not a Dev, but something tells me that isn't what they originally intended for the game. Almost everything in Eve carries some risk. And to allow the newest character with no skill points to move some of the most valuable items in the game with zero risk doesn't sound like the Eve I know. Granted.. I'm just a noob.
I'm not whining, and most of the other pirates aren't either. We'll adapt one way or another. This change would greatly benefit my hauler/manufacturing character. However, I also think it would unbalance things towards him and his profession as well.
Even those that agree with the change seem to acknowledge that it will kill low sec piracy. There are a ton of 'U NUB.. OMFG GET A DICTOR.. GO TO 0.0.. BUBBLEZ RULES' posts here from those that obviously have a certain disdain for pirates.
Newsflash for those posters.. low sec is supposed to be dangerous as well. Pirates perform that function. The NPC Rats certainly don't.
If less things get blown up, then ultimately the entire economy will shift as supply continues to increase and demand goes down.
This won't happen over night, but this change will most definitely decrease the number of things that go 'POP!'.
This change will also increase the capabilities of the isk printing machine that is the NPC trade goods market. It eliminates any comprimise between velocity and cargo hold in our ships. Any freighter pilot will be able to instawarp to every place they want to go. CCP might as well make freighters as fast as inty's, or remove their ability to move at all other than their warp drives, nothing else will ever get used.
As freighters can go everywhere buying and selling all trade goods instantly, more isk will flood the market. For those of you that haven't tried it, several billion isk a day gets printed this way.
Eventually this change WILL have a significant impact on inflation within Eve.
I still suggest we go back to the way the devs originally intended and eliminate instas altogether.
Based on the earlier dev blog on the subject, I gather that that is much harder to program, as it seemed to be their original intent.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:15:00 -
[353]
Im kind of getting tired of repeating this to people... instas are nothing new. This changes nothing. Everybody serious about Eve has instant bookmarks ffs. The only one you catch are newbies or people who cant be bothered to buy them. You get an entire region for like 30 mill or something. Its dirt cheap.
So please stop with the "freighter can now move at light speed" argument. You think the slowest ships in the game didnt have instas before? Of course they did. Or will get it.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:27:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Lazy Pirates.. blah blah whine whine..
Ya know that with the new hp boost most pirates will be able to move from the sniper spots to actually camping right on top of the gate and snagging almost any ship they care to pop? AFAIK sentrys are still going to do the same damage and with only 2 BS (1 tackler and 1 dps for those who are still confused about team camping ) you can camp the jump in side of a gate quite effectively.. Just ask the Egghelende campers.. They have been the terror of jump ins long before rmr and the new hp boost.. Sheese.. we need to truck in about 7 Itty 5's worth of cheese to go with all the moaning..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:29:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Im kind of getting tired of repeating this to people... instas are nothing new. This changes nothing. Everybody serious about Eve has instant bookmarks ffs. The only one you catch are newbies or people who cant be bothered to buy them. You get an entire region for like 30 mill or something. Its dirt cheap.
So please stop with the "freighter can now move at light speed" argument. You think the slowest ships in the game didnt have instas before? Of course they did. Or will get it.
I'm getting sorta tired of repeating this to people..
The point isn't whether or not they DID...
It's whether or not they SHOULD...
And in many cases they didn't.. I still see freighters slowboating to gates. In fact, a whole bevy of freighter pilots was recently complaining in local that CCP must place billboards where they do specifically to **** off freighter pilots.
As much as people complained about it, freighters are SUPPOSED to be slow.
I'm not sure why everyone thinks it's ok that a ship carrying 750,000 m3 moves through space just as fast as any other ship.
There is a 'velocity' attribute to ships for a reason beyond just the time they spend in belts or mission running.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:33:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: Lazy Pirates.. blah blah whine whine..
Ya know that with the new hp boost most pirates will be able to move from the sniper spots to actually camping right on top of the gate and snagging almost any ship they care to pop? AFAIK sentrys are still going to do the same damage and with only 2 BS (1 tackler and 1 dps for those who are still confused about team camping ) you can camp the jump in side of a gate quite effectively.. Just ask the Egghelende campers.. They have been the terror of jump ins long before rmr and the new hp boost.. Sheese.. we need to truck in about 7 Itty 5's worth of cheese to go with all the moaning..
Most pirates already WERE at the close in gate camping spots.
And FYI.. the Egglehende campers (of which I was one until not that long ago {Hi Tiller!}) have already posted here with their suggestion to make what you have proposed workable. Those that have actually tried camping are already aware of the fact that what you've proposed really isn't workable.
If you remove the stacking on sensor boosters they'll actually be able to catch the smaller ships. That's the only way to prevent the invulnerability of the smaller ships if warp to zero goes in.
It still doesn't deal with the fact that the velocity attribute on haulers/freighters is now meaningless...
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:37:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 08:49:10 Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 08:41:47 Freighters are the easiest ships in eve to pop in low sec.. They warp to 0km and you miss them on the warp in.. But.. go make yourself some toast.. toss the gf in the sack a few times.. mow the lawn and maybe get a few levels of your favorite mindless shooter in.. take a nap.. and then jump to the other side and the freighter should still be there aligning for warp to the next gate/station.. YEAH THATS A HARD TARGET TO KILL!
edit.. WTF.. The Egg campers have had no problems snagging jump ins for like.. well.. FOREVER! WCS nerf improves that chance.. hp boost lets you stay on the gate for alot longer.. Warp to 0 is a non issue as you always appear at some random 15km point off the gate on the jump in..
Nubs..
re-edit.. Ok heres your solution to the 'problems' of BS and the sensor booster stacking penalty.. Fit a Maller with an uber tank and use all SB on it.. It will LOL at the sentry fire and warp disrupt ships left and right.. So there.. Go forth and gank me hearties..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:48:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 08:41:47 Freighters are the easiest ships in eve to pop in low sec.. They warp to 0km and you miss them on the warp in.. But.. go make yourself some toast.. toss the gf in the sack a few times.. mow the lawn and maybe get a few levels of your favorite mindless shooter in.. take a nap.. and then jump to the other side and the freighter should still be there aligning for warp to the next gate/station.. YEAH THATS A HARD TARGET TO KILL!
edit.. WTF.. The Egg campers have had no problems snagging jump ins for like.. well.. FOREVER! WCS nerf improves that chance.. hp boost lets you stay on the gate for alot longer.. Warp to 0 is a non issue as you always appear at some random 15km point off the gate on the jump in..
Nubs..
Someone didn't read very well.. My issues with freighters haad absolutely nothing to do with piracy.
And I agree.. anything cruiser or bigger can be caught in low sec after they jump.
Anything smaller than a cruiser gets away everytime.
Please don't refer to me as a nub when you've obviously not even taken the time to read the posts.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:52:00 -
[359]
Ok heres where I get confused I guess.. I have witnessed on numerous occations 2 Megas catching SHUTTLES FFS on the jump in at the Egg camp.. How is this not possible now?
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 08:55:00 -
[360]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
I'm getting sorta tired of repeating this to people..
The point isn't whether or not they DID...
It's whether or not they SHOULD...
And in many cases they didn't.. I still see freighters slowboating to gates. In fact, a whole bevy of freighter pilots was recently complaining in local that CCP must place billboards where they do specifically to **** off freighter pilots.
As much as people complained about it, freighters are SUPPOSED to be slow.
I'm not sure why everyone thinks it's ok that a ship carrying 750,000 m3 moves through space just as fast as any other ship.
There is a 'velocity' attribute to ships for a reason beyond just the time they spend in belts or mission running.
I understand what you are getting at, but you know, this is still a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Nobody, and I mean nobody, enjoys long travel times. Thats why people are spending loads of iskies on bookmarks to begin with. They dont WANT to spend hours travelling.
Sometimes realism have to take a backseat to fun, because people dont play Eve to simulate being a real space ship pilot.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
|
TheDevilsJury
principle of motion R i s e
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 09:09:00 -
[361]
Seems there's quite a complaint about warp to 0 eliminating the possibility of catching people on gates in empire low sec.
A common response is "catch them at the other side". That I admit is difficult due to the random factor and that the best tackling ships can't tackle in empire low-sec.
My proposed solution is: Warp to 0 stays in. Eliminate sentry guns from empire low-sec.
Flame away.
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 09:14:00 -
[362]
Originally by: TheDevilsJury A common response is "catch them at the other side". That I admit is difficult due to the random factor and that the best tackling ships can't tackle in empire low-sec.
So I'm going to assume that all the frigs/shuttles I've seen turned into dust bunnies on the jump in is a figment of my imagination..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 09:34:00 -
[363]
I believe warp to 0 km is a good change. I believe the change is necessary. The Database cannot handle the current load of Bookmarks. At the same time contrary to what many think you cannot remove an integral part of a game such as instas have become without suffering an equally drastic loss in subscription rates.
Who here really believes that the so called 'carebears' would stay in the game if you completely removed bookmarks without a warp to 0km option in its place?
It doesn't matter that instas were not originally intended, they have been used and in place since Beta. Lonewalker paved the way for everyone. You can't strip out something that is so integral without major subscription feedback, look at how SOE has wrecked all their games.
Okay the pirates wanted a WCS nerf. Its in Kali. No longer will someone be able to fight and have a full rack of WCS. I'll revert to its original intention as a trasnport item mostly.
So now the devs are also giving something to everyone, a warp to 0 km option. An option which will elminate a large amount of clutter in the database, you'll still be able to make safespots and stuff but for most people 90%+ of their BMs are gtg and gts and stg bookmarks.
THe game cannot continue to grow unless performance is improved this change makes the most logical sense.
I hope we see it, and I think many of you will realise that its not that bad afterall.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 09:41:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua I hope we see it, and I think many of you will realise that its not that bad afterall.
Good luck on that front.. And why? I'll let tiller explain from an earlier post in this thread about why he dislikes the changes..
Originally by: tiller Thats because I'm a forum hore
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 09:55:00 -
[365]
Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 05/11/2006 09:56:44
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: TheDevilsJury A common response is "catch them at the other side". That I admit is difficult due to the random factor and that the best tackling ships can't tackle in empire low-sec.
So I'm going to assume that all the frigs/shuttles I've seen turned into dust bunnies on the jump in is a figment of my imagination..
That's what I'm assuming. I've been there and tried that and even with a Rupture tackling on the gate with 2 best named sensor boosters you can't catch frigs and shuttles.
That's a significantly faster lock time than any BS would be able to achieve with 3 or even 4 sensor boosters.
Edit: I can only assume that if you saw frigs and shuttles getting popped it was before sensor boosters had a stacking penalty.
|
TheDevilsJury
principle of motion R i s e
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 10:26:00 -
[366]
Edited by: TheDevilsJury on 05/11/2006 10:28:27 If you can catch them, then good for you :)
Whether you can catch shuttles or frigs is irrelavent. Currently the only way to pvp at gates/stations in empire low-sec is with sniping battleships or really really well tanked BS/cruisers.
I think that's a flaw in the system. The cause? Gate guns. Remove them from low-sec would mean that pirates can use any tool (ship or module) at their disposal... BUT everyone has warp to 0 option so if they're set up to attempt to avoid getting killed (nanos, WCS, fast ship etc) then they have a good chance of making it out.
It's a matter of balance. Fact is BMs are being nerfed and replaced with warp to 0km not because there was a problem with low-sec, but because of the lag caused. Then you have to look at the other areas warp to 0 affects and balance them in line with the new changes. That's why I think removing (or maybe nerfing) gate guns in empire low-sec is a good idea. Piracy becomes more difficult with Warp to 0km, therefore make piracy an equal ammount easier.
(yes, I know the grammar there didn't quite work)
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 10:30:00 -
[367]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 10:30:30
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator Edit: I can only assume that if you saw frigs and shuttles getting popped it was before sensor boosters had a stacking penalty.
Dunno.. I know I've seen this happen and I'm fairly sure it was post rmr but maybe I'm mistaken.. Ask Morph3us.. He was one of the Mega pilots I observed popping all manner of jump ins when I was in Egg.. And with the new hp changes there surely has to be some HAC or cruiser that can tank the gates for as long as it takes to hold a frig/shuttle before a BS can take over and the initial tackler can warp away.. I can currently camp gates in my Curse and kill T1 cruisers and lower before I have to warp.. And after logging in to the test server I now have 20k+ shields on my camp setup.. LOL.. With that much I can hold people all day and laugh at the sentrys as I pound them to a wreck..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 11:20:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: Mecinia Lua I hope we see it, and I think many of you will realise that its not that bad afterall.
Good luck on that front.. And why? I'll let tiller explain from an earlier post in this thread about why he dislikes the changes..
Originally by: tiller Thats because I'm a forum hore
Good luck indeed, this will happen and it was about time
**** need to make a new sig... |
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 12:04:00 -
[369]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Your never suppost to be more than 20km from the center of the gate. the bubble was most likely missplaced or put inline to catch warp ins to the gate like mobile disruptor bubbles.
Even if this were true.. and it very well may have been. Warp bubbles are now worthless... and they still only impact 0.0 which is a VERY small percentage of Eve pilots.
Why are warp bubbles now worthless? Everyone uses instas in 0.0 anyway so NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 12:43:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Why are warp bubbles now worthless? Everyone uses instas in 0.0 anyway so NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
This has already been explained in previous posts, but I'll make a special one just for you.
Right now, people have gate to gate instas.
After the change, people will have instas to the gate from any direction.
Players will adapt and warp to a planet before warping to the gate at 0 meaning that they will approach from a vector not covered by the warp bubble.
What's that you say??? Pirates can adapt too? Oh.. yeah.. great idea.. shame I didn't think of it myself...
Pirates can just put up numerous warp bubbles (which aren't cheap) to cover all the known possible approaches from planets etc. Never mind that they are now most likely out of position to actually cover those warp bubbles with short range weapons once people get trapped in them. At least they can keep them from warping straight to the gate.
Good call.. Pirates should adapt.
But... humor me.. let's take this one step farther before we quit though.
I predict that the next thing we'll see is a wave of bookmark sellers selling bookmarks to random places in space from vectors totally unpredictable based on known objects. That way people can warp to the gate at 0 from a safe spot that no pirate could predict.
That's what my hauler will be doing if this goes through at least... it's only the smart way to play.
In the end, this will cut back on some of the bookmarks, but only create a reason for more to be made.
Oh yeah.. and warp bubbles will be obsolete.
|
|
Adrianx7
MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 12:51:00 -
[371]
hi,
sorry if i missed it, but just got on OK warp to 0 fine
OLD BM dont work so i take it if you got assests in Safe spots i.e loot cans THESE need to be got beofore the UPdate
AS the old bm are in the list but no option to watp to them
AND 2nd in 0.0 how the hell are you ment to kill war targets ok bubble and indictors fine, all this may mean is station camps ;(
|
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 14:07:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 08:49:10 Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 08:41:47 Freighters are the easiest ships in eve to pop in low sec.. They warp to 0km and you miss them on the warp in.. But.. go make yourself some toast.. toss the gf in the sack a few times.. mow the lawn and maybe get a few levels of your favorite mindless shooter in.. take a nap.. and then jump to the other side and the freighter should still be there aligning for warp to the next gate/station.. YEAH THATS A HARD TARGET TO KILL!
edit.. WTF.. The Egg campers have had no problems snagging jump ins for like.. well.. FOREVER! WCS nerf improves that chance.. hp boost lets you stay on the gate for alot longer.. Warp to 0 is a non issue as you always appear at some random 15km point off the gate on the jump in..
Nubs..
re-edit.. Ok heres your solution to the 'problems' of BS and the sensor booster stacking penalty.. Fit a Maller with an uber tank and use all SB on it.. It will LOL at the sentry fire and warp disrupt ships left and right.. So there.. Go forth and gank me hearties..
**bows**
genepool chlorinator, please stfu, the more you talk, the less intelligent you sound... FYI, vaga's/stabbers/nanorax's bump extremely effectivily. Hell, I don't use warp scrablers solo when i;m hauler ganking on gates, 1. because they usualy die before they get a chance to align. 2. My Rax WTF bumps the cheese out of them before they get to align Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 14:15:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Why are warp bubbles now worthless? Everyone uses instas in 0.0 anyway so NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
There just not as good as dictor spheres unless your sieging a gate with 6 smalls for hours at a time, then they simply become more cost effective.
The small/med bubble would still catch the unweary traveler now and again and to be honest thats all pirates every catch, ie NOTHING WILL CHANGE Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 14:21:00 -
[374]
Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 05/11/2006 14:22:57 Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 05/11/2006 14:21:58
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 08:49:10 Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 05/11/2006 08:41:47 Freighters are the easiest ships in eve to pop in low sec.. They warp to 0km and you miss them on the warp in.. But.. go make yourself some toast.. toss the gf in the sack a few times.. mow the lawn and maybe get a few levels of your favorite mindless shooter in.. take a nap.. and then jump to the other side and the freighter should still be there aligning for warp to the next gate/station.. YEAH THATS A HARD TARGET TO KILL!
edit.. WTF.. The Egg campers have had no problems snagging jump ins for like.. well.. FOREVER! WCS nerf improves that chance.. hp boost lets you stay on the gate for alot longer.. Warp to 0 is a non issue as you always appear at some random 15km point off the gate on the jump in..
Nubs..
re-edit.. Ok heres your solution to the 'problems' of BS and the sensor booster stacking penalty.. Fit a Maller with an uber tank and use all SB on it.. It will LOL at the sentry fire and warp disrupt ships left and right.. So there.. Go forth and gank me hearties..
**bows**
genepool chlorinator, please stfu, the more you talk, the less intelligent you sound... FYI, vaga's/stabbers/nanorax's bump extremely effectivily. Hell, I don't use warp scrablers solo when i;m hauler ganking on gates, 1. because they usualy die before they get a chance to align. 2. My Rax WTF bumps the cheese out of them before they get to align
You're still not even bothering to read the post. I'm not arguing that EVERY cruiser-sized ship and up will still be vulnerable after the warp in. I've stated that in previous posts.
What I'm arguing is that every ship under cruiser (well.. except destroyer) is now pretty close to invulnerable at gates.
LOL.. you tell me I'm making myself sound stupid and then suggest that your Nano-Fitted Rax could actually get close enough to a frig before it's aligned to bump it....
You're right.. I'm the idiot here..
|
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 15:15:00 -
[375]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Butter Dog
Why are warp bubbles now worthless? Everyone uses instas in 0.0 anyway so NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
This has already been explained in previous posts, but I'll make a special one just for you.
Right now, people have gate to gate instas.
After the change, people will have instas to the gate from any direction.
Players will adapt and warp to a planet before warping to the gate at 0 meaning that they will approach from a vector not covered by the warp bubble.
What's that you say??? Pirates can adapt too? Oh.. yeah.. great idea.. shame I didn't think of it myself...
Pirates can just put up numerous warp bubbles (which aren't cheap) to cover all the known possible approaches from planets etc. Never mind that they are now most likely out of position to actually cover those warp bubbles with short range weapons once people get trapped in them. At least they can keep them from warping straight to the gate.
Good call.. Pirates should adapt.
But... humor me.. let's take this one step farther before we quit though.
I predict that the next thing we'll see is a wave of bookmark sellers selling bookmarks to random places in space from vectors totally unpredictable based on known objects. That way people can warp to the gate at 0 from a safe spot that no pirate could predict.
That's what my hauler will be doing if this goes through at least... it's only the smart way to play.
In the end, this will cut back on some of the bookmarks, but only create a reason for more to be made.
Oh yeah.. and warp bubbles will be obsolete.
The bubbles you are talking about here are the small bubbles. If you ever used bubbles you would know that there is a med version that is 15km in radius. If you place it on top of the gate it will cover all incoming ships from any direction. It wonÆt matter if youÆre warping from the sun/planet, from a SS or from another gate. You will end up at the edge of the bubble 15 km from the gate. Only the small ones are used in the manners you describe.
Some say med bubbles are bugged and donÆt catch some incoming ships. Personally it have never happened to me, but if they are bugged. Then itÆs another discussion.
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 15:42:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 05/11/2006 15:44:44
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Butter Dog
Why are warp bubbles now worthless? Everyone uses instas in 0.0 anyway so NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
This has already been explained in previous posts, but I'll make a special one just for you.
Right now, people have gate to gate instas.
After the change, people will have instas to the gate from any direction.
Players will adapt and warp to a planet before warping to the gate at 0 meaning that they will approach from a vector not covered by the warp bubble.
Well, anyone with a brain made oblique-approach gate instas long ago on the main 0.0 travel routes.
I know I did.
You can bubble up a gate with a few mediums and it covers all approach angles. OR, you can catch people with a dictor on the other side of the gate.
So I say again, nothing changes. If you had played a little longer and actually used bubbles you would have known this.
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 15:47:00 -
[377]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
You're still not even bothering to read the post. I'm not arguing that EVERY cruiser-sized ship and up will still be vulnerable after the warp in. I've stated that in previous posts.
What I'm arguing is that every ship under cruiser (well.. except destroyer) is now pretty close to invulnerable at gates.
LOL.. you tell me I'm making myself sound stupid and then suggest that your Nano-Fitted Rax could actually get close enough to a frig before it's aligned to bump it....
You're right.. I'm the idiot here..
He talked about haulers not frigs.
If you had actually spend any time pipe-camping in 0.0 you would know its already **** near impossible to catch ceptors/frigs at the moment. They MWD out bubbles and warp off, they align to fast to scramble (mostly).
So... NOTHING CHANGES.
|
Asha'Lil
Minmatar The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 15:52:00 -
[378]
I dont know if Large Mobile bubbles are on live or not but on sisi there seeded on the market...
(to lazy to look if there on tranq) __________________________________ Stay still! This wont hurt... Yarr! |
Otellus
eXceed Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 16:00:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Asha'Lil I dont know if Large Mobile bubbles are on live or not but on sisi there seeded on the market...
(to lazy to look if there on tranq)
This is exactly the solution. With Kali 1 we get large bubbles. And if you depended on people warping from gate to gate on your bubble before, all you were catching would be noobs anyway. Anyone with a brain would first jump to a planet and scan the gate for bubbles before warping in.
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 16:05:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Otellus
Originally by: Asha'Lil I dont know if Large Mobile bubbles are on live or not but on sisi there seeded on the market...
(to lazy to look if there on tranq)
This is exactly the solution. With Kali 1 we get large bubbles. And if you depended on people warping from gate to gate on your bubble before, all you were catching would be noobs anyway. Anyone with a brain would first jump to a planet and scan the gate for bubbles before warping in.
Seeding large bubbles would apparently help the issue. I'll take your word for it...
Now it's just low sec travellers in small ships that are immune from danger...
|
|
mallina
Caldari DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 17:43:00 -
[381]
To all those people claiming "nothing will change" because "everyone has instas anyway"
WRONG, NO, STFU (pls)
That statement could only apply to 0.0, and even then, a lot of people dont.
Low-sec?.. a lot of people might, but everyone? you're joking right. out of all the people I know maybe 20-40% of them use instas in lowsec, and only in the area they live in. If they decide to move somewhere else, guess what? no instas. same applies for 0.0 a lot of the time.
Hi-sec? um, do YOU have g2g instas through every single hi-sec region in EVE? the only people who will are freighter pilots who do trade runs. What about empire wars? how would they be affected?
gate sniping and such might not be 'real pvp' in many peoples eyes, but it creates the oppurtunity for it. Think about it for minute. Make piracy harder and you make anti-piracy harder. You make Mercs lifes and anyone doing empire wars harder, even the shipbuilders lives are made harder because lots less people need new ships. The only thing that isnt changed/slowed down/nerfed by this is the life of 0.0 blobbers and missionrunners. ----------- Turbulance |
Tres Farmer
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 17:59:00 -
[382]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 05/11/2006 18:01:36 @those whining "Pirates" = Gankers:
I quote two posts of this big thread, which show what for a "lousy" place - for having fun - low sec allready is:
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Post #304 in this Thread .. And belts? (low sec belts, Hint by: Tres) No one goes to belts because they are dangerous. Most non-pirates in low sec are there to save travel time through less jumps. ..
Originally by: Victoria Zongo
Post #345 in this Thread .. Lol, 0.0 .. been there, done that. Its far less risky than being outlaw in low sec. Try out both before attempting to educate people.
Your strategies might work for 0.0, but they are not good enough for low sec. Eg people don't dock in low sec stations, they just fly through, station camping brings you no targets. ..
To sum this and the meaning of some other posts up:
1) Low Sec actually gets AVOIDED by "most" of the playerbase, as it's to risky there.
2) The usual victim of those "Pirates" are traveling Mission-Runners, 0.0-Folk and Noobs.
So, now we have a relatively big Space of the Eve-Universe, which is populated by.. erm.. "nobody", except for those who want to podkill "everyone"?
*g*
And now comes the hammer - possibly - CCP now gives everyone a "warp-to-0km" BM on it's hand, so you'll also loose some more of those rare targets. ****... that's hard.
I don't know, what would help you pirates out there, getting more "non-pc supportet content" for you to destroy and pod, but if you're not allready find it a lousy life, maybe now you'll possibly get the idea.
*g*
I'm all for risk versus reward.. and I'm scared by the thought to loose my imps and asssets be getting podded. Like it. :)
But, that's it. You allready scare the hell out of the "carebears". You allready fullfilled your task.
I really have no idea how you can get more "non-pc content" for you to blow up!
Get a workaround for that..
Greetz Tres
|
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:05:00 -
[383]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Matrix Aran ...stuff...
...really long autobiography of stuff..
I'll just reiterate what I just said. If you don't know how to already deal with people with instas, you need some more practice pirating in lowsec. There is risk for the insta jumpers, if you haven't figured out how it works already, too bad. ----
|
Bambi
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:14:00 -
[384]
Just had a run about on sisi and its great. I can see a lot more interdictors being sold and pirates with plans rather than just sitting at a gate. Just imagine how many db entries will get deleted when all those bookmarks go. Even though my P&P is worth god knows how many 100 mill I will be glad to see the back of them.
Great move CCP.
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
EVE-Log
|
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:46:00 -
[385]
\o/
What can I say. Awesome and about a time. Really good change. And for whiners - anyone with clue has already instas.
|
Blood Gutter
The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:55:00 -
[386]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Players will adapt and warp to a planet before warping to the gate at 0 meaning that they will approach from a vector not covered by the warp bubble.
Oh noes! Because nobody does this already.
I, for one, upon seeing 12 AAA camping 9KOE-A, go straight from one gate to the other and get caught in the bubble and podded every single time. Who knew it was possible to warp in from another direction? I have processed cheese for brains!
|
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:20:00 -
[387]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator
Originally by: Otellus
Originally by: Asha'Lil I dont know if Large Mobile bubbles are on live or not but on sisi there seeded on the market...
(to lazy to look if there on tranq)
This is exactly the solution. With Kali 1 we get large bubbles. And if you depended on people warping from gate to gate on your bubble before, all you were catching would be noobs anyway. Anyone with a brain would first jump to a planet and scan the gate for bubbles before warping in.
Seeding large bubbles would apparently help the issue. I'll take your word for it...
Now it's just low sec travellers in small ships that are immune from danger...
The only ship that can get into warp fast enough before it can be scrambled on the other side of the gate is interceptors. And as stated above, itÆs still to hard to pin it down and kill or alpha it using a sniper before it can impulse the 12.5km (to jump distance).
An interceptor can do 4000m/s, and is agile enough to hit 3000m/s in 1sec. that is less than 4 sec of impulse travel. It is to fast for a snipers lock speed (alpha strike) and is immune to webbing, if webbed it can use the inertial to go the rest of the way. So fast locking cruisers are not useful either.
The only ships that can jump before they are scrambled and are not fast enough to not make the 12.5km in less than 4 sec are the shuttle and the pod. But that would be stupid if you travel in low sec in a pod without instas. So replacing instas for 0km would make no difference there.
This doesnÆt change anything. There is still no compelling argument for why instas shouldnÆt be replaced for 0km jump.
And pleas donÆt talk about removing instas completely (not replacing with 0km). Instas make life, in eve, so much easier. Only a small minority would cheer for there removal, the grievers. Doing so would pi*s so many players of. IÆm 100% sure half of eve would stop playing. Why would CCP deliberately do something like that?
2 people would benefit from this, pirates and the ones that sit docked in station 247 doing exactly nothing but troll on the forums. Wow that seams like a vast majority. I hope CCP does something about it before they quit eve. OMG losing our pirate profession, that seam so awful. How would the market roll when no one lost there ships to the pirates? Ohhh I canÆt think of any other way.
Maybe to empire wars and fleet battles as in true pvp. Not some chickensh*t hauler ganking. Real men fight on the battlefields. Not shanking someone in a back alley for fun. People with ôproblemsö have fun grieving others.
|
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 20:02:00 -
[388]
Only a minority lose there ships to pirates because of no instas. Those that lose there ship because of lacking instas are noobs. You lose your ship to pirates ones. Then you learn what is what and donÆt go down to low sec just like that.
And the idea of not having any instas to the new plases you go to. Well you donÆt because why travel in low sec without instas. And if you do go to a new place, well. You dock in Jita and buy yourself a region set insta pack.
New places > new instas > BM copying > lag
So do you prefer lag or 0km jump?
The same goes for empire wars. More insta copying more lag. The choice is 0km or lag because we already have a system that can do the exact same thing as 0km. So what do you choose because instas are not going anywhere, to many players like the idea of having them around.
|
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 20:17:00 -
[389]
And who came up with the stupid idea of. You canÆt warp to 0km because itÆs not realistic to exit warp into an object. Well in real life you can park your car in your garage by bashing it into the wall, if you wanted to. Why shouldnÆt I have the choice of suicide raming my ship into the station, if I wanted to?
Im a suicidal maniac. Give me my 0km jump or I will hotwire my jump drive myself.
|
Trollin
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 06:24:00 -
[390]
seems like warp to 0 on stations is really going over the top, as far as handing lowsec to carebares is concerned.
and even though you are trying to eliminate bookmark sets (and by doing so, eliminating a wonderful player adaptated market that runs in the tens of billions/week) I am seeing a huge market for natural alignment bookmarks (both arrival gates and station exits) and also deep safes and bubble avoidance bm's opening up if this change is actually implemented on TQ.
nice try, think again.
|
|
Research 131
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 06:43:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Xcom Only a minority lose there ships to pirates because of no instas. Those that lose there ship because of lacking instas are noobs. You lose your ship to pirates ones. Then you learn what is what and donÆt go down to low sec just like that.
And the idea of not having any instas to the new plases you go to. Well you donÆt because why travel in low sec without instas. And if you do go to a new place, well. You dock in Jita and buy yourself a region set insta pack.
New places > new instas > BM copying > lag
So do you prefer lag or 0km jump?
The same goes for empire wars. More insta copying more lag. The choice is 0km or lag because we already have a system that can do the exact same thing as 0km. So what do you choose because instas are not going anywhere, to many players like the idea of having them around.
just to clarify...
warp to zero is not the same thing as a gate to gate insta.
gate 2 gate bm's are made for a very specific approach vector, and only work from this vector.
warp to zero works from any vector, effectivly eliminating almost every type of interaction that currently occurs around gates or at stations.
its not even close to being the same thing.
|
LordGodKingBufu
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 07:58:00 -
[392]
Ahh you cant beat a good my dad's bigger than your dad thread...
Everyone knows its the kiddie-gansta-campers who moan about changes like this. For people with some snese there is always a soloution. When CCP introduced 15km warp in distances opeople said it wouldk ill eve, did it?
|
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 08:15:00 -
[393]
The logic behind it is. If you canÆt warp to 0km you make a BM to do the work for you. More Bookmarks more lag. So why not relive the pain of making more instas and remove the lag by implementing the next best thing.
So itÆs exactly the same as 0km but it doesnÆt take time to prepare. By the way you will get the same privileges as everyone. ItÆs not like you will be left out. And pvp wonÆt be ruined, only easy pvp kills will. That means that even new players will get the same privilege to jump to 0km so you wonÆt have that advantage over them.
The ones arguing against this are nearly talking as if they wonÆt get the 0km jump privilege and be left out. As if pvp will be ruined for them and the easy kills they previously could get on lone haulers or mission runners will not be possible. That is not called player vs player that is called bullying. You might want to take out the anger somewhere else. Like in RL were it really belongs.
If they can jump to 0km so can you. Get to the other side of the gate and scramble them and if you canÆt because itÆs high sec on the other side. Well then youÆre just pirating in the wrong system.
And outposts are supposed to be safe. CanÆt people try to get away from the pvp encounter? Or does pirates have a privilege to kill everything they find.
If we get the 0km system more players will venture to low sec and 0.0. That means more targets, more interaction and more pirating. So I donÆt get the logic behind arguing against this. If you think low sec is not crowded. Well wait till kali and see how new players start to venture there, now when itÆs a bit safer.
|
Twixies
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 14:27:00 -
[394]
sigh
|
Tirana Ferlina
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 14:30:00 -
[395]
Yehaw! 0 warps FTW!
|
Semjase
Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 14:40:00 -
[396]
warp to 0 fair enough u adapt your setup to catch ships on the other side. you should still be able to create bookmarks for safespots cans etc, but not be able to copy them? otherwise scan probes etc are pointless items
|
Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 17:16:00 -
[397]
I read up to page 7 but life is too short to read the rest. ;)
I think this is the best way to deal with the problem and although it isnt perfect it will help.
Right now any vaguely serious player in a remotely organised corp who has been playing for a amount of time (say a month) has gate to gate instas for their most used routes already and probably has quite a few more they dont use very often. I know I do.
As we all effectively have warp to 0km already adding this simply means I don't have to click on a bm anymore to travel. Newbies now get to play at the same level without spending hours copying instas first, and I don't have to spend ages making copies of mine for them to use.
Once thats sorted bookmarks will just be for the things they were orginally intended to do. Create tactical spots for sniping/scouting or for marking my favourite stations and POS locations. Miners will use them for marking belt positions. All good stuff and you dont need hundreds/thousands of bm's to do this.
This thing about a script that auto-removes bm's within 20km of gates sounds great, the game would be cleaned up overnight and we still have our tactical bm's.
Sure there will be downsides, but the decline of pirate gate ganks is not one of them. Go forth, hunt your prey and fight them - you'll find its actually a better way to play.
|
Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 17:21:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Research 131
just to clarify...
warp to zero is not the same thing as a gate to gate insta.
gate 2 gate bm's are made for a very specific approach vector, and only work from this vector.
warp to zero works from any vector, effectivly eliminating almost every type of interaction that currently occurs around gates or at stations.
its not even close to being the same thing.
In most systems I have multiple instas to the same gate, if there are 5 gates in a system I'll have instas to a gate from the other 4, so 4 instas per gate making 20 instas for that one system. If you are prepared then instas eliminiate the vector issue, as does warp to 0km.
|
Pick Me
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 17:57:00 -
[399]
Now you see how easy it is to make everyone's bm invalid, you just do it on the test server (with another change that won't be on TQ) and everyone is happy.
Then the D-Day come... You take down the forum for 5 days to prevent unmoderable major forum whine posts tsunami. |
Malakai0
Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 18:44:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
Just FYI to everyone, people who say this junk have no idea what 00 combat is like. EVERYONE who is ANYONE in a 0.0 war has BM's for every applicable gate anyway. You need a bubble to stop people, that is true now and will still be.
I guess it's pirates *****ing cause they will have more trouble catching newbies approaching gates in 0.4 systems? I can't think of any other reason why someone would be against this... _________________________ - We are Eye Of God, being so, we see the big picture. - Axiom is a self-evident truth upon which other knowledge must rest AND if its not self-evident to you, thats what |
|
Aquidus Nefron
Caldari Department of Defence Chorus of Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:01:00 -
[401]
I can't believe everyone is complaning, OMG we can't gate camp, well, if u live out in 0.0, just put a frekin bubble, and quit ur whining.
plus auto pilot will still warp to 15km, so u can catch those no brainers being lazy.
But, as for empire and wars, is there a was, when a corp is @ war, that ccp can make it where war'd corps can place bubbles in empire, and only have it affect the war'd corps?
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:44:00 -
[402]
If "Warp to 0" is really the best that CCP can pull out of their hat, then I am surprised and disappointed. I know that the pressure for *any* solution to the bookmark load problem is greater now than ever, but I simply can not believe that a kludge is better than a solution.
It isn't like the whole issue is something new, forcing CCP to take drastic emergency action. Solutions have been suggested, critiqued, trashed, rehashed, bought, sold, painted, varnished, tarnished, killed, ressurected, and flogged, for a very long time indeed.
An opportunity to improve gameplay in general and to enrich the diversity and vastness of the Eve universe is being thrown away, in favour of a "lowest common denominator" band-aid.
Is this what we are to expect for the future of Eve? Pandering to the fears of the miscontents, those unable (or unwilling) to see Eve as something more than a session of instant gratification?
Is this all Eve is worth? A quick paint over with the bland brush in order to make it compatible with the simple tastes of the masses, rather than add back some of the spice that made it worth sampling in the first place?
If this is the future path of Eve, then I fear for it. All the glitz of Kali can not begin to gloss over the horrible nerfing of the fundamental nature of Eve that this change will bring.
What aspect of Eve do we have to lose next in the ongoing pursuit of general appeal and simplicity?
I shudder when I even begin to contemplate that question.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
|
Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:54:00 -
[403]
YAY!!! Great Job!! another great idea man this Kali is going to be one hell of a good thing.
I think they Finally realize a game is to be played.
|
Octavio Santillian
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 19:56:00 -
[404]
I only made it through 8 pages or so, but here are my observations.
IÆll have mixed feelings, but more happy than sad. I will miss the advantage my BMs have given me. I will lament the 150+ million ISK and MANY HOURS (probably days) I have spent making and copying BMs. But, I will be happy to be able to roam the stars without having to spend even more time and ISK to first prepare.
Someone mentioned that it might just be on the test server to relive the load on the sub par hardware. That sounds reasonable.
For those who fear that all BMs are going way, well that doesnÆt make any sense. CCP is enhancing the ability to scan probe for ships, and why would they if there were going to be no safe spots? Not to mention the fact that it would cripple PvP as we know it.
CCP, please comment.
Also, please tell me that IF you auto delete BMs, you have the ability to target gate and station BMs by proximity. Even doing this will probably kill a hundred of my most useful BMs, but I can live with remaking those. If I have to remake 1000 or more tactical and defensive BMs, it will be just another straw on the camels back.
ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
|
Serapis Aote
TBC
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 20:02:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Tiller, I think i know what you are getting at. Small ship jumps in, and warps off before anyone can target and warp disrupt it. I think there might be some truth to it, and thats why I think mobile warp disruptors should be allowed in low sec with this change.
this should be looked at...
one of the things oveur first mentioned when looking at the insta problem, was that it basically made ceptors and shuttles immune while traveling (except for bubbles). This solution doesnt address that problem.
|
Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 20:06:00 -
[406]
Oh gee you might have to go map out some BM's that you alkl can copy again and lag the server again in a few months. BIG DEAL!! If your in a corp send one guy to each system for one day and poof you have some BM's. If your not in a corp wait for the sale of the new BM's or go make some more. Personally?? I hope the limit personal book marks to 50 or 100 and thats it.
If this one thing makes you leave you were on the way out awhile ago.
|
Nott Too
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 21:46:00 -
[407]
One thing seems to keep getting lost here. This is a balance between server lag and features. If one feature takes as much power to run as bookmarks do, CCP owes it to the paying members of it's community to find a work around. (If you understand databases you know there are really very few options to increase performance and keep the current system.) That solution is going to have pros and cons.
If this makes jumping a decent sized and balanced fleet a possibility then it will increase some aspects of PVP. How many times do fleet battles end up with two large groups in adjoining systems because the FCs know you can't over come the lag? Without the lag, a balanced fleet should be able to beat a blob with discipline and tactics, a side of the game that is currently missing.
So you have the potential here to increase performance, increase the feasibility of battles between willing combatants, and the drawback of cutting down some (not all) of the ganking of individual pilots.
To me the performance increase will out weigh the loss.
|
Radix Salvilines
Virtual Democracy Intergalactic Freelance Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.11.06 22:02:00 -
[408]
I dont like pirates. Mostly their victims are noobs that dont know how to not be killed in low sec/0.0. Thats not to glorious. Others already have the needed bms and instadocks so... what the hell. Not a big difference - only smaller lag.
Pirates will have to be more clever to get their prey rather than just in a very lame way sit 150km from the gate and snipe incoming ships (and when someone wants to fight back they run very quickly). BEGONE COWARDS. Now u need very sophisticated tactics and i welcome it gladly.
Radix
|
Leuthispar
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 04:01:00 -
[409]
There is this ship called an Interdictor that drops bubbles that makes you drop out of warp, and these cool little things called Warp Bubbles, you wanna gate camp? you can camp on either side just use them, they are on the market and escrow. As far as empire goes, its a good idea, if you got the skill points to either snipe or tank the gate guns you should be out in 0.0 actually pvping not ganking newbies moving their stuff in haulers. The bigger plus about this, reduce lag all over EvE by a lot... Bms shouldnt be removed completely though, so you can still have tactical bms(250km above/below a station or gate)
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 04:52:00 -
[410]
I've not yet been on the Test Server so I'm speaking purely from second hand information, but I have heard with the hit point boost that 1v1 fights often last over 5 minutes long.
If this is true, warp to zero means that it's not just gate piracy that is significantly nerfed.
Solo belt hunting just took a big whack with the nerf bat as well. 5 minute fights plus instas for everyone mean that you'll VERY rarely ever get a target in a belt for long enough to kill him solo (unless you greatly overmatch him in ship strength and that is rarely fun even if the loot is good).
His friends will all use their nice new 'Warp to 0' option be on top of you before you can finish the job 90% of the time.
<shrug> Maybe this is as it should be, but many of us, (including most 'pirates' (according to their description of the word as it applies to Eve) who said warp to 0 is a good idea in this thread) find our fun through solo belt piracy.
Those that immediately sign off on as significant a change as Warp to 0 should really think it all the way through.
|
|
Felix Dzerzhinsky
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 05:06:00 -
[411]
So. . .why have 0.9 - 0.1 systems anymore. . .you may as well have 0.1 --> 0.0. I would not have any problems with this if you were allowed Interdictor sphears and warp bubbles in the mid sec regions? say from 0.9 to 0.0. As it stands, low-sec is about pirates, to take away the ability to camp gates in low sec, CCP is effectivly killing off the very idea of low sec. The warp core stabalizer nurf was a good thing, but this change reverses that nurf to a point where solo piracy is effectivly killed. Yes, I realize that this is a communal game, but some of us like to take a stroll on our own once in awile and go for the kill. Gate guns are bad enough for low-sec gate camping, this change is too much. So something has to give. I suggest the idea of limiting BMs to within a certain distance from a gate and stations. I belive that 15kms from the gate is a good distance. travel in eve should not be instant - you may as well remove the idea of 15 or 20 or 50 jumps and allow people to travel from one gate to any other gate instantly, if travel is a bore, then you may as well remove the idea of multiple gate jumps all together.
Yes, I am a pirate, and yes, I do gate camp. But this change is making it almost impossible to stop people from running. Yes, you can gate camp the 'other side'. But with the way people spawn around gates, this is very difficult to do with even a small gang.
BMs need to go, but creating PvP opportunities is also important. Removing pvp from eve is not my idea of a good change - its a reality that fights happen around gates, without these fights, small gang pvp will be elimitated and only the alliances will experience pvp in any meaningful way. Thats not good.
sorry for the long rant, but warp to 0km is the worst idea I have ever heard. Nurfing T2 ammo, Hit point changes, thse things are not game breaking. Warp to 0km however is something even beyond that in terms of changing the fundamental physics of the game.
|
Quantum Joe
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 06:38:00 -
[412]
/signed
This would greatly help to entice new players into low-sec and/or 00. With the probability of being gate camped nerfed slightly, I can see many of the carebears risking the dangerous waters of low-sec. I think this would also take a great deal of the sting out of the WCS nerf that's scheduled to release. Lastly but definately not the least, if all instas with in 100km's of gates were removed, the people of Eve would cheer and celebrate the lagless gameplay.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 06:50:00 -
[413]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator I've not yet been on the Test Server so I'm speaking purely from second hand information, but I have heard with the hit point boost that 1v1 fights often last over 5 minutes long.
If this is true, warp to zero means that it's not just gate piracy that is significantly nerfed.
Solo belt hunting just took a big whack with the nerf bat as well. 5 minute fights plus instas for everyone mean that you'll VERY rarely ever get a target in a belt for long enough to kill him solo (unless you greatly overmatch him in ship strength and that is rarely fun even if the loot is good).
His friends will all use their nice new 'Warp to 0' option be on top of you before you can finish the job 90% of the time.
<shrug> Maybe this is as it should be, but many of us, (including most 'pirates' (according to their description of the word as it applies to Eve) who said warp to 0 is a good idea in this thread) find our fun through solo belt piracy.
Those that immediately sign off on as significant a change as Warp to 0 should really think it all the way through.
Wow.. finally something I can agree with you on gene.. This really is the death of true solo pvp/piracy as it once was known and TBH I think its deliberate.. Why? Most pirates complain about the lack of targets and thats due to one and only one reason.. You guys were too good at it and ran eveyone off! Warp to 0km at gates is fine by me as you can almost always catch them on the other side of the gate if your competent as many an insta user has found out by my hand as I've always camped at 0km on the gate.. ( except slashers/shuttles.. waaaay to fast to warp at any time in eves history but thats fine as you shouldnt be able to catch 100% anyways if your soloing.. ) So what I see is CCP's attempt to make pirates work in groups just like everyone else has too.. After kali I'm still going to solo pvp/pirate but I have three accounts so I can at the very least get the leadership bonus and some throwaway dps from an expendable alt.. Is this fair to single account users? Not really sure as eve has always been about team work and gangs as far as the devs are concerned.. So all I can really say is if you still want to solo your gonna have to pony up some cash for a second account or make some friends with the same outlook as you.. If anything maybe the Pirate Coalitions ranks will swell with former solo pirates looking for some backup..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
LordGodKingBufu
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 07:52:00 -
[414]
Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
|
Felix Dzerzhinsky
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 07:56:00 -
[415]
Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 07/11/2006 07:58:25
Originally by: LordGodKingBufu Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
And who do you think is buying the stuff you are hauling? If you want to make money, you should take the risk. But enjoy having your market crash, its not the Alliances that are buying your stuff, its the Pirates. I mean, if you don't want to PvP - fine, but why take it away entierly? I pray they allow warp disruptors and interdictor-bubbles in 0.4 and below.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:04:00 -
[416]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 07/11/2006 08:05:06
Originally by: LordGodKingBufu Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
Ummm the complaint isnt from the pirates who operate in gangs mate.. Its mostly from solo pirates as the changes is kali will most definately put a crimp in that style of play.. 5 Ravens will still pwn people at the jump in as long as one is fitted as a dedicated tackler sitting on the gate.. A solo ship has to balance gank tank and scram all at once and now this will be pretty much impossible unless you have an uber officer/faction setup.. But as the autopilot will still dump you at 15km all the nubs that got popped before will still get popped at the warp in.. Time will tell and I'm thinking that all these guys will figure out another way if it comes down to it..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Peppy LePew
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:11:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 07/11/2006 07:58:25
Originally by: LordGodKingBufu Man, someone rattled some cages on this thread... Wanna be 'pirates' don't like not having a serrious advantage when attacking a hauler with 5 ravens in 0.4. Well get your mummies to write CCP a note saying its not fair and you wont be coming out to play until they play nice and make you god of the universe like you really deserve.
And who do you think is buying the stuff you are hauling? If you want to make money, you should take the risk. But enjoy having your market crash, its not the Alliances that are buying your stuff, its the Pirates. I mean, if you don't want to PvP - fine, but why take it away entierly? I pray they allow warp disruptors and interdictor-bubbles in 0.4 and below.
PvP isn't going anywhere. That's as foolish a statement as "people don't use station instas in systems they operate in", which really should read: MORONS don't have station instas in systems they operate in.
Warp to 0km doesn't drastically change the game, whether it be to gates -OR- to stations. Takes 2 medium bubbles to completely shut off a gate in 0.0, or an interdictor (just like now!). You can still tackle any ship slower than an interceptor coming out of a gate with a tanked Battlecruiser and sensor boosters (just like now!). The majority of your targets will flee to the safety of a station and insta-dock if they are not properly scrambled (just like now!) and you are making a mountain out of a tiny molehill.
In short: get a clue. And embrace the traffic this might actually bring to low-sec (and likely 0.0) just because of it's convenience. Or are you going to tell us that is somehow a bad thing, too?
|
LordGodKingBufu
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:12:00 -
[418]
That was ment slightly tounge in cheek..
I agree that we need warp disrupters in 0.4 and below. The fact that warp to 0m replaces an insta will only change the db load. people will warp to 0m wether it is in the game as a mechanic or as a player created workaround.
Maybe adjust the 0m factor depending on your standing with the soverign. -10 standing, you warp in at 20km +10 standing you warp in at 0m, 0 standing you warp in at 10km. This would give defending troops an advantage over invaders, and make trade faster for freindly corps as travel times would be less. Oh and kill all player made bookmarks....
|
Radix Salvilines
Virtual Democracy Intergalactic Freelance Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:32:00 -
[419]
Go on whinning u pirates. The days you were feeding your cowardly wallets on other honorable players are coming to an end.
And for real i think u may find some other ways of getting your prey. Gate camping will be pointless but an option warp to 0km will make low sec look less dangerous and more attractive for carebearers. Expect a big inflow of new peoples in low sec. U can switch from gate camping to belt camping, or camp with a friend (one in ceptor, second in ganker) and get the ships that come out from the gate and scramble him before he warps out. With the stabs nerfed this should be easier :)And there will be more ships coming your way :)
The tactics needs just to be adapted. There is always a place for pirates (u guys make the empire market running in some precent :D).
|
Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:44:00 -
[420]
Why are people complaining about the death of piracy? Some people said that "as soon as i go into a system they warp to SS"... well, dont they do that right now? what does warp to 0 have to do with this? If this allows them to warp to station or to a gate, then its just like a SS... it allows them to escape combat... no different from what it is like right now. Some are complaining that on low sec systems that boarder high sec, they can't go hunt down a guy on the other side... well, whats to prevent you from hunting a guy warping INTO the low sec from high sec? you can gank him just as easily.
Other than the fact that they will lose some targets that can warp before being scrambed after decloak, i really dont see a problem with this new system.
Repopulate Low Security!
Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D |
|
Peppy LePew
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 08:48:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Radix Salvilines Go on whinning u pirates. The days you were feeding your cowardly wallets on other honorable players are coming to an end.
And for real i think u may find some other ways of getting your prey. Gate camping will be pointless but an option warp to 0km will make low sec look less dangerous and more attractive for carebearers. Expect a big inflow of new peoples in low sec. U can switch from gate camping to belt camping, or camp with a friend (one in ceptor, second in ganker) and get the ships that come out from the gate and scramble him before he warps out. With the stabs nerfed this should be easier :)And there will be more ships coming your way :)
The tactics needs just to be adapted. There is always a place for pirates (u guys make the empire market running in some precent :D).
Unfortunately, gate camping will be more effective than it is now. Not pointless in any way. Low defense targets are not going to gain much benefit from the HP increase, since resists are what matters, but anyone interested in tanking sentries is getting a massive boost to their trade. Sniping will be less effective, that is about all. And that is mostly due to the T2 ammo nerf. Sorry snipers, use those gun skills to fit blasters instead and catch someone coming into a system with a warp scrambler, those haulers will pop just as fast as they always did only now you won't need someone to loot the can for you since you'll be right there next to it and you'll have plenty of time to loot it and warp away. Life will be rough for pirates, eh?
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 09:10:00 -
[422]
The quote below is from a DEVCHAT on Oct 19, 2006 and can be found at:
http://eve.coldfront.net/article/12
DigitalCommunist: For the love of god make them address instajumps :( Oveur: Congratulations DigitalCommunist! You were person number 1000 to ask a question about instajumps! Oveur: You win this nice iPod!!! Next question please? Oveur: Anyways Oveur: Instajumps is something we've been talking a whole lot the last weeks Oveur: and getting feedback from all around about what to do Oveur: personally, I'm standing between in two camps, the "warp to 0 with autopilot on 15" and the "remove them and use the tools you got to begin with, mwd's and ab's to move" Oveur: pretty much lost faith in any thing between that, but i'm not the only one with an opinion on this and in this case, much more than chairs have been broken (and eve.coldfront.net is running a poll on instas this week, btw) LeMonde: (Redundancy has cost the comany over $10,000 in chair expenses) Oveur: but they all have drawbacks and positives, but I'm actually a bit optimistic that we'll see something in Kali 1 Oveur: if not there, shortly thereafter Oveur: especially with the hitpoint changes coming in Kali 1, they are a big part of this discussion, so are empire wars and so on and so forth Oveur: the short answer, they will be changed, they are not only passionately hated, they are also wrecking our servers Oveur: so the pressure is not only from gameplay, the server performance pressure is huge, so there will be a change
Healthy discussion needs to be had while the DEVs figure out what they want to do about this issue.
Oh.. and Dred Pirate Jesus... I've been a solo pirate (even on the low sec gates in my T1 cruiser) for most of my career. Only in the last few days before I headed for 0.0 did I camp with Tiller etc in Egg/Siseide. I must say those guys are efficient!
But even with them and all the tricks they've learned and utilize, anything smaller than a destroyer (including T1 frigs) was really too fast to catch on the warp
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 09:17:00 -
[423]
Hi. Congratulations on reading this far. I figured I'd get my thoughts in on this one, so thanks for making the effort to read down :).
I tried doing EVE without instas. I did so for quite a long while, running chokepoints into 0.0 in my badger MK II, in a 'dodging camps' fit.
Running a few starbase towers meant a lot of fuel in and out. It worked quite well, and the game play wasn't so bad. However then I saw other people in fully expanded iteron 5s, making 1 trip to my 5. I saw 'hostiles' insta-ing past me to get to the gate so they'd catch me on the other side in their battleship, and then call me a newb (although mostly I did get away from them, so maybe that was why).
And so I gave up, and made a set of instas. I would _quite happily_ delete every single insta, and warp to 15km every time, with only a minor whinge about how that's going to make my frieghter a pain to get through 0.0.
But only if we're talking level playing field. Only if I don't have to dodge the same battleship every jump of my route because he's 'got instas' and I don't.
There's a lot of debate about instas both ways. Personally I think the only reason not to remove them entirely is that so many have become dependant on this crutch that they will cry loudly if it is removed.
They will increase the size of the EVE universe. This is a good thing. I like feeling like Jita is a long way away. I think there's plenty of scope for market trading, but only if not 'everyone' is hauling things 5-10 jumps to a hub.
The other thing it will increase is danger level for slower ships moving through low sec/0.0. I don't see a problem here either. I think there _should_ be a reason to use cruisers, frigates etc. over battleships. IMO a battleship and even a BC should be big, slow and heavy, with a lot of firepower. As it is, a BS might as well be as fast as a 'ceptor.
Don't forget, whilst yes, it does make getting someone who's running a blockade easier, it also makes setting up that blockade much harder. Moving your BS 10 jumps to set up the gate camp won't be a trivial matter, and moving on once the camp gets 'busted' will also be harder. So you'll quite naturally have smaller camps, with smaller ships.
I don't think you'll ever lose the gate camps. My only real objection to them is if you run into one with 40 ships, there's pretty much nothing you can do. Now if there's one where there's only 3 or 4 cruisers, then you _do_ have a chance to run or fight, especially if you arrive in a battleship.
This would be a major gameplay change, I would agree. I know lots of people who won't go anywhere without instas. But I think it would be a _good_ change to gameplay, where warp to 0 would just serve to further dumb down EVE.
And for the record, I am not a pirate, nor gate camper. I've spent more time in a hauler than I have a battleship. I think there should be a reason to go for fast mobile ships, over insta-ing heavy hitters, and I think there should be a reason to use smaller faster industrials rather than slower bigger ones.
Seriously, how often do you see Sigils? They're tier 1, like the bestower, and they're fast, but they have less cargo. They're almost never used, because everyone's either AFK or insta-ing.
Personally, I use instas a lot. I think that removing them entirely would improve the EVE game play no end.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 09:42:00 -
[424]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator Oh.. and Dred Pirate Jesus... I've been a solo pirate (even on the low sec gates in my T1 cruiser) for most of my career. Only in the last few days before I headed for 0.0 did I camp with Tiller etc in Egg/Siseide. I must say those guys are efficient!
But even with them and all the tricks they've learned and utilize, anything smaller than a destroyer (including T1 frigs) was really too fast to catch on the warp
True Solo Gate Piracy is dead in all forms.. The vast subscriber base of non-pirates has seen to that.. But I ask you to try a T2 shield tanked Harpy/Hawk when you want to snag frigs on the jump in.. I experimented with this a bit and found I could snag almost anyone I wanted to but had to mount no weapons at all to be able to pull it off due to fitting concerns.. And even then your going to have to have some fine coordination with your gang mate to do it as you can only stick around for just long enough to hold them before a properly tanked ship can take over tackling.. Team that with a nice dps fitted BS and your set again to blast anyone you want.. So again CCP has its wishes with forcing pirates to gang up and use multiple ships to pull off an effective gank.. Sucks for the solo snipers or on gate solo campers but I'm sure you have a few friends to call on now? And really I think the changes will help repopulate low sec so that there is actually someone to shoot at and not system after system of all pirates and no prey..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 09:45:00 -
[425]
^^^ Right on!
I agree wholeheartedly with James Lyrus' assessment.
As I said in my original post, my other character is a market trader, and I hadn't even considered the benefits to him.
Being harder to travel means people are more likely to shop locally. This means casual players have the opportunity to establish markets in relatively out of the way places and not have to compete with the .01 isk lower or higher prices (depending on buy or sell) that they would in a main market hub.
Removing bookmarks around stations/gates makes the universe much bigger and gives those little players a chance.
As it stands right now, I was just reading a thread about a well known player/corp who has started a reseller corporation built entirely around his willingness to stay docked and change prices to make sure that his are always the .01 higher or lower that is necessary to ensure it's his items that get sold or bought.
This would still happen to a certain extent, but would be much less prevalent if a trip to Jita took a couple hours instead of a couple minutes (as it does with instas).
The market would have to spread out which would be good for almost everyone.
I hadn't even thought about that benefit, but I've lived without instas most of my career (only made a few in the last few weeks) and so would be more than happy to see the playing field leveled back in that direction!
/signed all over again!
|
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 09:52:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus True Solo Gate Piracy is dead in all forms.. [:( The vast subscriber base of non-pirates has seen to that.. But I ask you to try a T2 shield tanked Harpy/Hawk when you want to snag frigs on the jump in.. I experimented with this a bit and found I could snag almost anyone I wanted to but had to mount no weapons at all to be able to pull it off due to fitting concerns.. And even then your going to have to have some fine coordination with your gang mate to do it as you can only stick around for just long enough to hold them before a properly tanked ship can take over tackling.. Team that with a nice dps fitted BS and your set again to blast anyone you want.. So again CCP has its wishes with forcing pirates to gang up and use multiple ships to pull off an effective gank.. Sucks for the solo snipers or on gate solo campers but I'm sure you have a few friends to call on now? And really I think the changes will help repopulate low sec so that there is actually someone to shoot at and not system after system of all pirates and no prey..
I've got a few friends now, but I often have to play at odd hours and therefore have adapted most of my tactics for solo play. Still.. if the game mechanics call for group play, I can adapt to that.
I'll definitely look into the AF idea. I'm only 4 months old and have been focusing on fitting/learning skills so I've got a ways to go before I can fly one, but it occurs to me that you're probably right. I think I could shield tank a Jaguar (4 mids ftw) and make it work for tackling on gates. This will be doubly true with the hitpoint boost.
I'll have to experiment with that and thanks for the idea!
All of the above being said, I stated from the very beginning that I would adapt to whatever changes were made to the game.
Regardless of what CCP decides I'll find a way to play the way I want to play... I just don't think Warp to Zero is the best solution for the long term growth of the game for reasons I've stated many times previously.
|
Leuthispar
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 10:08:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Leuthispar on 07/11/2006 10:14:17 True Death to Solo Piracy?? WTF! Update!! There are also these mods called Sensor Boosters! Sit on the gate coming out of the high sec, with sensor boosters and tackle done. Oh what about shuttles and noobships they warp too fast!! <--- Dude seriously that is lame. I understand Piracy is and will always be a part of the game, what mods are you gonna grab from these/how much is some1 gonna pay fro ransom of a shuttle. You say oh but sometimes ppl move really good stuff like BPOS in these ships, well then change your setup add more sensor boosters or w/e if you waant these really good things you should have to think/work harder. Ppl tackle these ships in .0 all the time.
The most important thing i have not seen anyone here post, CCP is a RL company that is trying to make a profit, they have to protect the new players so that they can get hooked on the game and buy their product, how many customers you think get turned away because they keep gettin killed and loose some/all of their assets to low sec pirates. Most ppl play a game to have fun. I know I do. If I was empire carebear/noob gettin pwned all the time on a trial i would be like yea..... CTRL+Q Here I come BF2. If you owned the company think about this: Hmmm Get 100 more memberships or empire carebears for every month and increase our sales/profits, or leave the few pirates in empire have fun. Solution: Encourage pirates to move to .0 while they can still have fun there, and increase the protection noobs/ empire carebears get to promote sales. Simple.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 11:31:00 -
[428]
Well it is a true death to solo piracy.. If your in low sec you have to contend with sentrys and that means the sensor booster you fitted will take time off your camping.. And if your flying a BS then that sensor booster aint doing shiat for your lock time and if your not in a BS then you've had to sacrifice gank for tank and you wont be able to kill anything but frigs and shuttles before you warp.. But TBH I'm neutral to the whole solo piracy thing as I only do it for fun every now and then.. ORGANIZED piracy will get a boost after kali as the hp increase will let more ships with dedicated tackling fits hold any manner of ships for destruction by their gun slinging mates.. And even shuttles carry valuable stuff you know.. You never know when a nice exspensive BPO is sitting is that little hold..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
GenePool Chlorinator
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:50:00 -
[429]
Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 07/11/2006 13:51:09
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 04/11/2006 18:29:53 Trust me.. I understand the people.. and I even understand what you haven't pointed out. It's more than a game.. it's a business. CCP will do what they feel will make them the most money in the long run.
Most of their serious player base is here for PvP of one form or another. That PvP takes many forms (market is often more vicious PvP than ship combat) but its competition either way.
The main draw for many of us into ship combat is the sense of real loss from dying and therefore the sense of real risk. Like Diablo 2 Hardcore, only the serious player is after that sort of thrill.
Eve is also unique in its complexity. That complexity is largely a result of the previous two and the fact that almost everything is player driven. But a lot of it is a result of the variety of possibly ship fittings and thus the many different ways to play 'Paper, Rock, Scissors' in space and see who comes out on top.
All of the above leads me to my final and most important draw. The player base itself. Eve holds onto to so many long term hardcore gamers specifically because of the unique challenges it presents. Eve demands a certain maturity from its players.
I have personally recommended Eve to several people and gotten them started playing the game for those reasons. THe people I have gotten to start playing this game are the dedicated gamers who have already started multiple accounts. They are hear because of the challenges, the risks, the patience, and the calculation required to succeed.
As I said before, I could go either way about this specific proposal, but I hate to see Eve 'dumbed down' for the sake of the few people who aren't patient enough to take the necessary time to travel. Those same people probably won't have the patience to wait around to train the necessary skills required to be successful either.
In the end, CCP will make the decision based on where they want to take the game. It's their game. They have that right. I'll adapt either way. The decision they make will have an impact (how large or small only time will tell) on the makeup of their player base. Certain players will get disgusted and leave, others will stay. That will be true regardless of which decision they make.
It's up to the Devs to determine which type of player they want to stay.. and which they want to leave. And in the end, that will probably largely be motivated by the profit margins. The decision will be made based on what they think will make them the most money.
And to the guy who suggested I don't understand the player base.. don't be an ass and suggest that you do and then follow it with a shortsighted opinion that only takes a certain type of player into account.
At least try and recognize the variety of reasons people find this game enjoyable.... not all of which are the same reasons you find it enjoyable. Some of us like it specifically because it's hard.
Either way, I'll adapt, and the new players coming in will wonder what all the fuss was about when people talk about the good (or bad depending on your perspective) old days when:
A) instas were possible
or
B) people actually had to warp to 15kms because warp to zero wasn't possible
So that Leuthispar doesn't claim originality (post #319, page 11 this thread). We're well aware that CCP is a for profit company.
I'd venture to say that a large draw for most of CCP's player base is the risk involved. Taking some of that risk away doesn't make it a better game and guarantee more subscribers.
That being said, I'm not sure where I stand on this after Dred's GREAT suggestion. My main complaint was the invulnerability of small ships.
A Jaguar with 2 MSE II's, an F-90 SB, a 20k scram and 2 x signal amps fits and locks a shuttle in 1.45 seconds.
It'll easily have enough hp to tank after the 50% hp boost!
|
John McDuff
Caldari Saturn Group Industries Saturn Group
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 14:24:00 -
[430]
my two cents
|
|
Valerii Zarek
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 14:31:00 -
[431]
Warp to 0 was brought up because Instas bypass intended game mechanics.
Please read the above sentence again. The problem is not warp to 0, or gate camping, pirating, or performance, or bookmarking, or anything else. The problem is instas and instas only. This is why we are in this mess now. Remove instas, remove the problem. MWD and AB was put in game for reason.
PS: I know removing instas sounds difficult - if not impossible. But we are not devs. Devs know more than we do about the game - and if you read Oveur's interview on the subject he clearly talks about having 2 choices: warp to 0 and removing instas. He wouldn't talk about it if it wasn't possible.
|
Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 14:38:00 -
[432]
maybe its time to limit bookmarks??
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=422287 Limit Book Marks HERE!!! |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 14:39:00 -
[433]
I tested Warp to 0 on the test server today and its very nice. Works for gates, stations, well, everything I think. You can also set default Warp To Distance to what you want under 15 km now, like 1 km, 3 km, 7 km or whatever.
I have to say, it was a great feeling to travel that fast everywhere.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
John McDuff
Caldari Saturn Group Industries Saturn Group
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 14:45:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Valerii Zarek Warp to 0 was brought up because Instas bypass intended game mechanics.
Please read the above sentence again. The problem is not warp to 0, or gate camping, pirating, or performance, or bookmarking, or anything else. The problem is instas and instas only. This is why we are in this mess now. Remove instas, remove the problem. MWD and AB was put in game for reason.
I would agree with you if it was a fix to a recently popped up circumvention of the system, but instas have been around for so long that imo we're far past simply removing them and reverting to 'as intended'. There's also gameplay convenience to consider, a lot of ppl use instas to get somewhere a lot faster. I'm still thinking 'warp closer' mods...
|
Felix Dzerzhinsky
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 20:08:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Valerii Zarek Warp to 0 was brought up because Instas bypass intended game mechanics.
Please read the above sentence again. The problem is not warp to 0, or gate camping, pirating, or performance, or bookmarking, or anything else. The problem is instas and instas only. This is why we are in this mess now. Remove instas, remove the problem. MWD and AB was put in game for reason.
PS: I know removing instas sounds difficult - if not impossible. But we are not devs. Devs know more than we do about the game - and if you read Oveur's interview on the subject he clearly talks about having 2 choices: warp to 0 and removing instas. He wouldn't talk about it if it wasn't possible.
Spot on. yOu have the right idea.
|
Karma
Gallente Mos Eisley Consortium
|
Posted - 2006.11.07 21:06:00 -
[436]
Aaaaah, good. now it will take talent and skill to be a pirate again. most excellent.
the majority of would-be pirates could do with a bit of exercise of your grey matter.
you've all become too fixated on the idea of the 'gate camp'.
let me ask this: how have pirates (the non-would-be kind) been dealing with instant bookmarks in the past? because surely, *someone* must have felt the need to go after that 'market'. _________________ "No Worries" Karma, fool on the hull. |
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.11 11:31:00 -
[437]
YAAHHHHH 0km. love you CCP.
Test server is awesome. 0km in test server is so comfortable that you don't want to go back to tranquility.
|
Crystleyes
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 19:14:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Knerf i say its a trick, they will impliment warp to 0km, everybody will delete their BM's then they will take it away
HAHA too funny.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 20:29:00 -
[439]
They have now confirmed that Warp to 0 is coming to TQ, and they are deleting all bookmarks within 40 km of gates automatically.
Our deed is done. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 20:37:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
They have now confirmed that Warp to 0 is coming to TQ, and they are deleting all bookmarks within 40 km of gates automatically.
Our deed is done.
Excellent. This will keep people's safespots in tact and still get rid of a ton of BM's that have accumulated over time. ------------- Stop whining. |
|
Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 20:39:00 -
[441]
Honestly I hate this change because now there is no logistical reason to take a smaller ship over a larger one for speed reasons. BS's should be slow. Haulers should be slow unless they sacrifice some cargo space. Now there is no point to speed mods other then the ones that help you align faster. ------------------
CEO of TKI
|
MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 20:51:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar Honestly I hate this change because now there is no logistical reason to take a smaller ship over a larger one for speed reasons. BS's should be slow. Haulers should be slow unless they sacrifice some cargo space. Now there is no point to speed mods other then the ones that help you align faster.
There is if you want to autopilot while afk or are just too lazy to manually warp your way through 20+ jumps. ------------- Stop whining. |
Eraggan Sadarr
Caldari Dodge this inc Vanu Space Command
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 20:59:00 -
[443]
Great...Lets be done with it then :)
|
Outa Rileau
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 20:59:00 -
[444]
I ahd an orgasm when i heard i was gettign 0m bkms for every region ingame... I was getting ready to buy over a 150 mill worth
------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
|
Ishmair
Amarr JuBa Corp
|
Posted - 2006.11.13 21:01:00 -
[445]
I sign for 0km warping. since bubbles work great for stoping ships.
|
Tobiaz
Spacerats
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 00:13:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
Camp both sides of a gate? All the victim will get is a moment of smugness and relief, snatched away like a mobile phone which rings in Stockport.
Unless you're solo and you and your victim are both on the gate, playing the waiting game.
|
Izo Azlion
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 00:28:00 -
[447]
So how does this work? Gate to gate, manual warping, is 0km warp in, right?
But how about manual warp in from a safespot? or a station? 0km?
Because if its 0km providing you warp from anywhere, its overpowered, and I totally disagree with it.
Even with insta's as they are, you have to make sure your aligned enough for you to land on the gate...
This really really worries me, and I'd rather it wasn't there tbh... 15km is fine, for risk:reward... if its just gate to gate, then fine, but... please not everywhere.
Izo Azlion.
---
|
FlA mInGo
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 15:40:00 -
[448]
hate the idea, how the hell are pirates ment to gate camp, that would mean u need loads of sensor boosters on to catch someone at a gate on entry as u can hit anyone going the other way, i will only approve the idea if they alow interdictor bubbles in low sec aswell, cause these completelu abolishes gate camping, thats a pirates main income, is popping haulers at gates, if a haulers got nanos on u cant catch them on entry and good luck trying to catch any elite hauler anymore
|
Jason Marshall
Hammer Of Light Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2006.11.16 16:17:00 -
[449]
Originally by: FlA mInGo hate the idea, how the hell are pirates ment to gate camp, that would mean u need loads of sensor boosters on to catch someone at a gate on entry as u can hit anyone going the other way, i will only approve the idea if they alow interdictor bubbles in low sec aswell, cause these completelu abolishes gate camping, thats a pirates main income, is popping haulers at gates, if a haulers got nanos on u cant catch them on entry and good luck trying to catch any elite hauler anymore
Belt camp
Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw! |
FlA mInGo
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 00:20:00 -
[450]
yeah and how that goonna work ????
|
|
April Knox
Caldari Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 08:54:00 -
[451]
It's just funny to see CCP banging her head how to create a "space" where tactical combat can take place, and at the same time all they do is get rid of space. By warping to zero they are removing the only place where non consensual pvp takes place: Gates.
Irony here: I wonder, why not just get rid of all the hazzle of travelling and let us go instantly to any system anywhere in the galaxy?
The opinions expressed here are my own, and in no way they represent Trinity Nova's.
|
Metacannibal
Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 09:06:00 -
[452]
its a great feature, i hope they will a) expand dictors into 0.4 space to make life easier for pirates b) delete all bookmarks within 200km of all gates+stations that would hopefully get rid of a whole lot of lag and hopefully improve the game for all.
|
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 09:54:00 -
[453]
Sweet Jebus is this thread still going?! How could anything with any possibly of being remotely new have been said past page 3?
KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
Blinne
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 04:25:00 -
[454]
I admit I'm unwilling to read 15 pages of thread, and I am not a forum regular, so I may be repeating an old suggestion. But flipping briefly through this thread, I saw some talk of why CCP would be allowing WarpToZero, after so long without, and speculation (perhaps it was confirmed, but I didn't see it) that this was to fix instas (clearly an ongoing goal for CCP). So I apologize if what I write is an old suggestion, but I haven't yet seen it.
I assume from the existence of the WarpTo15 option that CCP's design intends for us to have to slowboat to gates. If so, one might easily imagine that CCP might wish to nerf instas, but ideally without nerfing the other uses of BMs, including tacticals and safespots.
The reason instas are possible is because WarpTo15 as currently implemented is just equivalent to all our ships having deliberately-stupid "navigation software". Because WarpTo15 reliably warps to 15km towards your warp origin, it is predictable, and thus exploitable. If, instead, WarpTo15 (and mutatis mutandis for other distances) warped to 15km from the target in a random direction, instas would not work. Bang, G2G instas dead.
Well, how would warping to a farther distance work, you ask? You ask, if my gang warps to 100km, do we end up spread out all over the surface of a 100km-radius sphere? Well, that's one option. Another option is all warping together to one randomly-chosen point on the 100km-radius sphere. Another option is just saying that all warps have 15km error, so when I warp directly to a target (BM, gate, whatever) I'm off the target by a random 15km, and when I warp 100km away I'm off that by 15km, so 85-115km from the nominal target. In this model, my gang would end up strewn around a 15km-radius sphere, even if we seperately warp to the same target (with the same desired offset distance, of course).
Gameplay ramifications? Well, clearly gatecamps are more powerful with no way of avoiding the slowboat. It is my humble opinion that gatecamps are not a positive feature of the game. I'm a bit on the carebear side, so ymmv, but they don't look super-fun for the campers either. Plus, clearly they are far far harder on noobs than old hands, and that's always part of things, but I'm sure it annoys everyone including the campers that they mostly only catch noobs. So it's not clear to me at all that boosting gatecamps improves the game. However, there are many things about the Eve gameplay dynamics that I do not understand, so perhaps there is something totally awesome about gatecamps that I just don't get.
What else? Well, moving stuff around in Eve is fricking boring. I understand that this real cost to players (player-time is a valuable resource to every player, surely) underwrites part of the scarcity that drives the Eve economy, and FSM knows I respect what CCP have done with game economy, but really wouldn't it be nice to spend more time having fun, and less time waiting?
So, perhaps WarpTo0 should be implemented (or rather, enabled) even without the motivation of abolishing instas. Or maybe a version of what I suggested above, with a smaller deviation, like 1km, so the gatecampers have a chance, but only against slower ships, and only if the campers are relatively alert. With WarpTo0 enabled, what the autopilot does in this regard is just a matter of trading off the economic consequences of scarcity (favours WarpTo15 autopilot) with relieving the players of tedium (favours WarpToClose autopilot).
Hmn, that post ended up longer than I had planned. |
Nizar
Foundation R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 15:00:00 -
[455]
Warp to 0km. Sweet, great, awsome! I would say the best Revelations feature. Finally I can say bye bye to my 30+ region-set-folders filled with 1 billion BM's. Every time I opened the stupid BM tab in People&Places I had to wait... So THX CCP
-------------- Nizar -------------- BARON VON NEINLEDERHOSEN
|
Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 10:35:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
They have now confirmed that Warp to 0 is coming to TQ, and they are deleting all bookmarks within 40 km of gates automatically.
Our deed is done.
Jim, can you point me to where this confirmation is? I am not doubting you and its good news to me as well - I would jut like to see the actual confirmation on that and the deletion of BMs(Which I expected too).
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 .. 16 :: [one page] |