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Asura Vajrarupa
Scope Works
53
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Posted - 2015.04.30 00:57:17 -
[31] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Enough is enough! There is currently little to no risk involved for the vast majority of isk making in EVE! From Moon mining to planetary interaction and even research there is hardly ANY risk involved. Please remove all passive isk from the game!
Many players use these tools to plex accounts.
There is little incentive to do anything else.
Passive isk is killing the game.
Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.
Please put an end to passive income!
The irony-«
10/10, would read again.
Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
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Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2015.04.30 01:05:07 -
[32] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Passive isk is killing the game.
Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.
Can I haz ur stuffs, for my passive incomes.
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Bonezay
Networth INC. Limitless Redux
4
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Posted - 2015.04.30 01:52:29 -
[33] - Quote
Not sure if OP is actively trolling or passively trolling... |
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Nulli Secunda
254
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Posted - 2015.04.30 13:50:14 -
[34] - Quote
Bonezay wrote:Not sure if OP is actively trolling or passively trolling...
if he replies more than once its active trolling
If he doesn't reply at all, it's passive
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Otso Bakarti
Aliastra Gallente Federation
126
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Posted - 2015.04.30 14:03:16 -
[35] - Quote
The only way to end passive income is to totally lose your character if it's killed. Lose all its possessions, ISK, contacts list, messages, bookmarked locations, EVERYTHING - and have to roll another toon. FOR:
as long as you know you aren't going to die, you aren't risking anything ever. Derp.
I survived Win95
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36548
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Posted - 2015.04.30 14:10:41 -
[36] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:You forgot the worst form of passive income.
Skill training.
You can make 5 or 6 billion logging in for an hour total over six months. If you are going to rage, that's where you should be directing it. I think Miss Moss failed the grade 2 english class before starting an Economics 202 macroecon class. The term "make 5 or 6 billion" clearly has to be interpreted to mean profit not turnover. If the latter would be the case, her remarks would be correct, albeit less than courteous. No, you're not making 6 billion profit on a 6 month old character.
At most they have around 9 million SP and sell for anything from 3 - 6 Billion. When you take in the cost of the account (Power Of Two is often a good way to do it when it runs) and the $20/2 PLEX to transfer, the profit is relatively low on a 6-month old character.
As an alternative, you can buy already established characters and continue to train those. Then the profit at the end is reduced by the 6-month subscriptions cost, the initial purchase cost and transfer. It is possible to make good profit on established characters, but 1 billion profit per month still implies an increase in value of close to 2 billion per month, which is very rare.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Mark88fan Jones
EVE University Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2015.04.30 16:45:50 -
[37] - Quote
Well for a new player, such as myself, I found learning about and skilling up for PI to be a lot of fun. Just placed colonies on 4 planets and that was fun figuring out how to make it work. After running a little over a day, I collected the transmitters and put them on the market this morning for $5 mil. I could have sold for $4 mil, but don't need it right now.
Anyhow, point is that it's fun and a good source of income for new players. I don't see why that would bother someone. |
Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
5
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Posted - 2015.04.30 18:28:28 -
[38] - Quote
Any source of truly passive income will either be (1) competed down in price until the effort in setting it up roughly equals the gains from doing it or (2) fought over until the cost of acquisition roughly equals the gains.
You observe case (1) with datacores. When they were new, you could make signifcantly more than 1 PLEX/month with a 3 datacore alt, especially since LP used to accrue while unsubbed . Now with datacores you can expect to make maybe 100mil/month with 3 accounts doing it, or the equivalent of a few hours of mission running. Nothing to write home about.
You observe case (2) with things like moon mining, where alliances fight over the best space and have to invest significant time and effort into moving all of their moon goo around and keeping poses fueled. Arguably POSes aren't even passive income because you have to fuel it and move goods to market, but I see your point.
I would not consider PI to be passive income. It is a huge clickfest and at the end you get a little bit of ISK. This sounds a lot like mining... |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2015.05.01 01:46:42 -
[39] - Quote
Shakuul wrote:Any source of truly passive income will either be (1) competed down in price until the effort in setting it up roughly equals the gains from doing it or (2) fought over until the cost of acquisition roughly equals the gains. You observe case (1) with datacores. When they were new, you could make signifcantly more than 1 PLEX/month with a 3 datacore alt, especially since LP used to accrue while unsubbed . Now with datacores you can expect to make maybe 100mil/month with 3 accounts doing it, or the equivalent of a few hours of mission running. Nothing to write home about. You observe case (2) with things like moon mining, where alliances fight over the best space and have to invest significant time and effort into moving all of their moon goo around and keeping poses fueled. Arguably POSes aren't even passive income because you have to fuel it and move goods to market, but I see your point. I would not consider PI to be passive income. It is a huge clickfest and at the end you get a little bit of ISK. This sounds a lot like mining...
Ambivalent to this. You gave a real legitimate response, which can only serve to help non-idiots understand economics, while at the same time, it was technically posted in a troll thread.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
901
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Posted - 2015.05.01 01:53:48 -
[40] - Quote
So this is what we call a forum thread these days.
Impressive. |
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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1895
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Posted - 2015.05.01 03:34:10 -
[41] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:baltec1 wrote:Feel free to set up your own risk free moon mining operation. While the OP may be going a bit far, the jist of the issue is that there are a lot of activities in EVE that don't require you to log in for long stretches of time, relatively to what you're getting out of it. PI and moon mining are the most prominent examples. It's not about defending the latter either, but about how little interactivity such a system actually needs to work, and still be profitable. I would argue that the amount of passive activities in EVE is a direct cause of the stagnation of the amount of people online (of of, you know what i mean), and that has to be looked at. moon mining again, is only possible by havign a large popluation of ACTIVE combat pilots to defend it, and a full logistics wing to support the network, moon mining is only valuable as it is in mass (and it will be even harder to passively do as CCP rolls out the structure changes)
as for PI, yes, managing 5 planets between 2 lowsec systems to produce the materials for one final product being made on the sixth, in an untankable, non-combat industrial makes WAY too much money for the risk associated with it.
PI is profitable not because of time at the keyboard involved, its the logistics in maintaining everythign needed for it to work, whether thats POCO occupancy, or just learning to avoid the local pirates who would more than love to pop a bestower hauling 100mil of goods between planets for production |
Reiisha
Repracor Industries
742
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Posted - 2015.05.01 12:09:34 -
[42] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:moon mining again, is only possible by havign a large popluation of ACTIVE combat pilots to defend it, and a full logistics wing to support the network, moon mining is only valuable as it is in mass (and it will be even harder to passively do as CCP rolls out the structure changes)
as for PI, yes, managing 5 planets between 2 lowsec systems to produce the materials for one final product being made on the sixth, in an untankable, non-combat industrial makes WAY too much money for the risk associated with it.
PI is profitable not because of time at the keyboard involved, its the logistics in maintaining everythign needed for it to work, whether thats POCO occupancy, or just learning to avoid the local pirates who would more than love to pop a bestower hauling 100mil of goods between planets for production
And how much do you actually need to be online to keep it working? You make it seem like you have to defend a POS 24/7 and have a 100-man fleet online for it at all times, and you have to take care of the logistics every hour and work in shifts to keep it working.
Obviously that just isn't true. Defending a POS is pretty much unecessary unless it's close to the frontlines. Even if it does get attacked, you basically don't have to do anything for an entire day and it will still be safe. Logistics are a once-a-week thing for most POS. There is some setup required, yes, but after that's done you can basically forget about it outside of the weekly logistics run (especially in larger alliances with the current blue donut).
What i'm trying to say is that the system doesn't require enough active interaction (or rather, it doesn't reward it). Everything is laid out so you don't have to be online to make it work, you just have to poke it a little bit every once in a while to keep it going. A lot of systems in EVE work like that (sov, PI, industry, market, research, etc), and as a result people just aren't actually online playing the game but offline playing something else while waiting for processes to finish. I hope i don't have to explain how that is a bad thing, especially in the long term.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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Josef Djugashvilis
2947
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Posted - 2015.05.01 12:34:33 -
[43] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Oh wait,
I mined my minerals so they free..
I sold my toon for 5bill over 6months so i am 5bill richer.....
Lmao stupid dummy idiot It costs 5 PLEX for six months and that includes the transfer. Learn to make a proper character and you get up to 12 PLEX at the sale. That's 7 PLEX or 5.6b profit for an hours work. Show me anything else in the game where you make 5b an hour. Mr Epeen
Hi-sec level 4 missions?
See the usual suspects for a scientific breakdown on how to do this.
This is not a signature.
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Xiebaah Ko'inkila
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.05.01 13:42:57 -
[44] - Quote
How are you supposed to stop people trading ?
If you remove the player driven economy you kind of kill the game for 90% of the player base. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1620
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Posted - 2015.05.01 13:55:32 -
[45] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:Bonezay wrote:Not sure if OP is actively trolling or passively trolling... if he replies more than once its active trolling If he doesn't reply at all, it's passive What if he replied only ONCE?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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chelly Dian
Shadow State The Bastion
26
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Posted - 2015.05.01 13:56:50 -
[46] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Enough is enough! There is currently little to no risk involved for the vast majority of isk making in EVE! From Moon mining to planetary interaction and even research there is hardly ANY risk involved. Please remove all passive isk from the game!
Many players use these tools to plex accounts.
There is little incentive to do anything else.
Passive isk is killing the game.
Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.
Please put an end to passive income!
The irony-«
I believe former residents of Fountain and Delve would disagree with your idea of "hardly ANY risk involved"
But by all means, please set up a moon mining POS in low sec / null sec ( just as soon as you kill the one that is there ofcourse )
But lets say you have an alliance that is actually in a large coalition and you are in top 1% in said alliance and allowed to put up R64 POS. You will then pay aprox 80% tax to alliance for use of said POS.
Bottom line, you have no idea how moon mining works in practice.
And if you thing its moon miners that are raising price of PLEX you have got it all wrong my space poor friend. |
Mario Putzo
1355
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Posted - 2015.05.01 15:03:02 -
[47] - Quote
chelly Dian wrote: And if you thing its moon miners that are raising price of PLEX you have got it all wrong my space poor friend.
They most certainly contribute to it. Moon mining on the alliance level facilitates SRP, SRP keeps more money in a pilots pocket they would otherwise need to replace ships, since Moon Mining is covering that through SRP, they have extra isk to go to PLEX.
In fact SRP programs likely have the largest impact on PLEX prices right now, and they are primarily funded through Moon Mining.
On the individual level passive income certainly allows one to buy PLEX easier. Couple PI alts can pull in about 75% of a PLEX, (maybe a bit less now since PLEX have gone up since I did my numbering with the free 2 Char Training CCP gave us). Individual moon mining (which is rare) can generate anywhere from 50%-100% of a PLEX (depending on material mined, and cost of pos upkeep). In either event both provide a portion of the cost of a PLEX for doing relatively nothing and maybe more importantly it allows a player to Mission AND Generate ISK from inactive sources at the same time. It makes PLEXing much easier.
Since we all know PLEX pricing is driven by supply and demand, More people with the ability to purchase PLEX with less time invested, means higher demand on the market. Supply has been more or less in steady decline since about 2012, while demand has actually accelerated (likely due to 2 char training, and more recently ship skins using PLEX > AUR).
So while moon mining and PI are not solely responsible for PLEX increasing 1:1, they certainly do impact the rise by a sizeable %. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
98
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Posted - 2015.05.01 15:08:44 -
[48] - Quote
Does extortion count as passive income? |
Mario Putzo
1356
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Posted - 2015.05.01 15:23:02 -
[49] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Does extortion count as passive income?
I would say no. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
98
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Posted - 2015.05.01 15:25:20 -
[50] - Quote
Cool.
Cos I do less work than an Incursion Runner on autopilot and I still rake it in lol |
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Gerhard Stringfellow
Fisherbody Trading Company
20
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Posted - 2015.05.03 12:39:18 -
[51] - Quote
Moon goo is hardly risk free, and I'd hate to try and rely on PI to PLEX an account (or god forbid several). Those are the only two things I can really think of as passive income that are legal within game mechanics (not including bot mining or nasty things of that nature).
Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear
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2Sonas1Cup
108
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Posted - 2015.05.03 12:48:23 -
[52] - Quote
Guide:
3 accounts 6 ALTs (2 per account) in a wormhole 0% tax own pocos 6 planets per character ~ 5 million isk per planet a day
5*6*6*30= 5.4 billion isk a month
15 minutes a day required 30 minutes on the weekend for logistics
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malcovas Henderson
THoF
364
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Posted - 2015.05.03 13:17:32 -
[53] - Quote
All I am reading from the OP is "I cannot / wont do the passive billions isk shizzle, so it should be stopped". Jealous self entitlemently kinda of thing.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
420
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Posted - 2015.05.03 15:09:13 -
[54] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Better not let my employer know I was sitting on my ass on vacation getting that passive income doing squat... How it that different from when you are at work? LOLOLOL
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1699
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Posted - 2015.05.03 17:36:18 -
[55] - Quote
Blue dohnut won't end until moon-goo income is removed.
I know very well the logistics and defensive headaches of maintaining moon poses. It's hard work. But that's not the point. It's not about what's "fair." If the goal of fuzziesov is to end blue dohnut and give small guys a chance at sov, this has to be done.
If fozzie wants to do it, he'll do it. We won't be able influence him by making disingenuous posts in defense of our moon goo. All it does is make us look like idiots to everyone who looks at the forums in the process. There's no point. Whatever will be, will be. |
bonkerss
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
10
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Posted - 2015.05.03 17:56:38 -
[56] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Enough is enough! There is currently little to no risk involved for the vast majority of isk making in EVE! From Moon mining to planetary interaction and even research there is hardly ANY risk involved. Please remove all passive isk from the game!
Many players use these tools to plex accounts.
There is little incentive to do anything else.
Passive isk is killing the game.
Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.
Please put an end to passive income!
The irony-«
i would go forth opposite. MORE PASSIVE INCOME. Eve pve is so extremely boring i wish i would get all my isk passive:) |
Commander Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1452
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Posted - 2015.05.03 19:08:32 -
[57] - Quote
Recently made billions building t3 destroyers in wormholes
Put moons to mine in here please
See who moans when that happens. Make it fair
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1452
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Posted - 2015.05.03 19:08:32 -
[58] - Quote
Recently made billions building t3 destroyers in wormholes
Put moons to mine in here please
See who moans when that happens. Make it fair
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
155
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Posted - 2015.05.03 19:18:46 -
[59] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:Guide:
3 accounts 6 ALTs (2 per account) in a wormhole 0% tax own pocos 6 planets per character ~ 5 million isk per planet a day
5*6*6*30= 5.4 billion isk a month
15 minutes a day required 30 minutes on the weekend for logistics
Notes: - Try not installing more than 4 command centres on the same planet. - Sweet spot is 8k isk or more per unit of p2. - Aim for 18k units of each raw material extracted per hour.
Don't those get blown up when ever they go to high-sec to sell stuff? |
u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
24
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Posted - 2015.05.03 19:38:34 -
[60] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:baltec1 wrote:Feel free to set up your own risk free moon mining operation. While the OP may be going a bit far, the jist of the issue is that there are a lot of activities in EVE that don't require you to log in for long stretches of time, relatively to what you're getting out of it. PI and moon mining are the most prominent examples. It's not about defending the latter either, but about how little interactivity such a system actually needs to work, and still be profitable. I would argue that the amount of passive activities in EVE is a direct cause of the stagnation of the amount of people online (of of, you know what i mean), and that has to be looked at.
You are so hot! Marry me! We will have many baby capsuleers and one day they'll grow up to be leaders! If not, well....we'll use them for passive income! |
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