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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
bruce Iee
Syndicate Society Drop the Hammer
5
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Posted - 2015.04.28 23:59:10 -
[1] - Quote
I don't think that this was a broken feature.
The removal as can be seen here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5704846#post5704846 - There were no discussions or announcements for it, I wonder why the removal was necessary then.
I help manage Corporations, and I have been doing so for a couple of years. I find this removal a step back in use because at this stage of the game, Corp. directors could give titles interesting names that wouldn't give away anything. This option was also very useful in finding out who is who without having to look at the edit > toggle window. Now it is quite confusing when we sort out members, instead of just clicking their IDs to display what title they are in, we now have to go to edit > title > view roles
This change was thrown in after the patch. I wished that there should have been a discussion about this.
There has also been similar complaints, and now I know I'm not the only one who found this removal in a negative way: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5705821#post5705821
Is anyone else finding this removal unnecessary? If so, post here for support.
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bruce Iee
Syndicate Society Drop the Hammer
5
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:03:32 -
[2] - Quote
Lastly, directors can always also use the other option of naming a vanity title for other things rather than a functional Title. I think this also adds novelty to the fact that certain applications of names can also only be shared with Directors, for example, a member will have a role title and a vanity title but the vanity title is just merely for vanity, and the role title helps distinguish functionality on a corporate level. |
Exdios Jar'go
Mythic Inc Gentlemen's.Parlor
1
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:05:37 -
[3] - Quote
I disagree with the removal of Titles from Show Info, I honestly don't understand the reasoning behind it, and how is it meant to protect sensitive data?
Also agree some corps use it as a fun option for members and assign roles using the role management screen
Bring back please. |
bruce Iee
Syndicate Society Drop the Hammer
5
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:08:51 -
[4] - Quote
Exdios Jar'go wrote:I disagree with the removal of Titles from Show Info, I honestly don't understand the reasoning behind it, and how is it meant to protect sensitive data?
Also agree some corps use it as a fun option for members and assign roles using the role management screen
Bring back please.
It would have been great if there was a discussion about it. The Corp. interface still needs a lot of improvement, however, the removal of view-able titles affects Directors and Managers like myself-- How can members distinguish who is who unless we manually edit and add them from the vanity title option...? Corps with more than 50 members or even a 100 members will find this confusing. |
Marius Labo
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
65
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:17:53 -
[5] - Quote
From my post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5705821#post5705821
Marius Labo wrote:Bring back the ability for Titles linked to Roles to be displayed. It wasn't a feature that was broken. Is there a source for where this was discussed or wanted prior? See: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5705498#post5705498 - from that post forward. It seems the community didn't really ask for this feature to be removed. Add it back, and for those that feel there is sensitive data involved in the display of a Title allow a toggle for CEOs/Directors. Seems like an easy reversion and actual improvement if you add the ability to toggle it. When you don't act or seek on stakeholder feedback... you create more work for nothing.
And it's getting ridiculous that all they'll serve us with (both CCP and CSM) is "You know you can use vanity titles, right?"
This is a major PITA for those, especially larger corps, that have relied on TItles for Roles to display.
Bring it back, bring it back, bring it back...
Recruiter
Mercenary Coalition Forums
E-UNI Wiki
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
340
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Posted - 2015.04.29 07:04:19 -
[6] - Quote
WHAT?
I LIKED MY TITLES!
Admiral Derpington, Marauder Buster, Babysitter, Ventrillo Ninja and the two or three others i have had over the years were all HARD EARNED DAMNED! If you dont want to leak intel dont call your directors directors, call them Buttmunch in chief instead and noone will think THAT is clever... |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1370
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Posted - 2015.04.29 07:17:56 -
[7] - Quote
It's a bug. What else could it be?
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
379
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Posted - 2015.04.29 07:42:24 -
[8] - Quote
Sorry guys but I think this change was a step in the right direction, although possibly a bad implementation.
I would like to see the titles if I do a show info on my own corp members, however I don't want anyone outside my corp to see these titles. It means that I can actually give proper names/descriptions to the titles, instead of giving titles random names and then trying to remember which thing it was associated with, Example from a previous corp, I have a title for Director Alts that I can now name "Director Alt" instead of naming it "Hydrogen" or other similarly weird name. (all the titles in the corp were names of Elements, the name of the corp was the Element Syndicate so it fitted with the theme but was a pain in the neck to remember) |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1370
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Posted - 2015.04.29 07:46:37 -
[9] - Quote
Remember? If you try to remember things, you are doing it hilariously wrong. You write this kind of information down and make the document(s) available to the appropriate people in your corp. Remembering things is prone to cause a lot of damage.
But I guess, this is one of CCP Seagulls, the CSM's and other party's efforts to remove the Spreadsheets In Space attribute of the game and turn EVE back into a game and not the hobby that it is supposed to be. Fantastic.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
454
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Posted - 2015.04.29 12:58:44 -
[10] - Quote
Marius Labo wrote:From my post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5705821#post5705821 Marius Labo wrote:Bring back the ability for Titles linked to Roles to be displayed. It wasn't a feature that was broken. Is there a source for where this was discussed or wanted prior? See: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5705498#post5705498 - from that post forward. It seems the community didn't really ask for this feature to be removed. Add it back, and for those that feel there is sensitive data involved in the display of a Title allow a toggle for CEOs/Directors. Seems like an easy reversion and actual improvement if you add the ability to toggle it. When you don't act or seek on stakeholder feedback... you create more work for nothing. And it's getting ridiculous that all they'll serve us with (both CCP and CSM) is "You know you can use vanity titles, right?" This is a major PITA for those, especially larger corps, that have relied on TItles for Roles to display. Bring it back, bring it back, bring it back... This. |
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1374
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Posted - 2015.04.29 13:10:53 -
[11] - Quote
By the way, which titles have been removed? I've just checked some radoms and some have titles.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Marius Labo
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
88
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Posted - 2015.04.29 14:05:31 -
[12] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:By the way, which titles have been removed? I've just checked some radoms and some have titles. The Title that would appear with roles. Corps can assign titles to roles (16 I believe) and give that grouping of roles a title. It used to appear on the character. All that appears now are vanity titles which are manually input by a director.
With the Title Management feature in the Corp UI you could assign pilots groupings of roles and the title you gave that grouping would also appear.
For example, in EVE University, they assign the title of "Freshman" to Hangar and Wallet view and take roles. That title used to appear on the character. It no longer does. It still shows in "View Member Details" to the pilot and their corp-mates, and of course in the Corp UI for those with the roles to view that info.
It's now become a major headache for most organizations that have used the TItle feature. If it doesn't change and you want to have titles display on members to indicate these groupings of roles you have to do it manually and for a large organization that becomes a huge amount of work, let alone a PITA for the rest of us.
The claim is that these titles displaying publicly gave away sensitive info. There were already existing and viable ways for that information to remain hidden if one wanted. This seems to have been introduced arbitrarily and is frankly a silly implementation to fix something that was not broken nor wanted. I haven't seen or been provided any source that shows this was an issue.
Recruiter
Mercenary Coalition Forums
E-UNI Wiki
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
381
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Posted - 2015.04.29 14:06:34 -
[13] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:By the way, which titles have been removed? I've just checked some radoms and some have titles. Titles haven't been removed, the Titles that give roles have been hidden from Show Info. |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Chapters.
4
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Posted - 2015.04.29 15:12:49 -
[14] - Quote
My comment from the MOSAIC feedback https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5707442#post5707442
Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:Idea how to implement the title thing: http://i.imgur.com/UhuVmGU.png After this it should not be hard to check who opens the show info and check do the roles show or not. And of course not with those icons ;) (Also the roles should be like they are on the Role Management page. Did bug report of this.) EDIT: oh. And it should be radio button, not check box.
And yes. Those options should be public, alliance, corp |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
963
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Posted - 2015.04.29 17:39:26 -
[15] - Quote
Was there any basis for removing them given? Did they just go away?
What happened?? Why??? |
Marius Labo
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
97
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:23:09 -
[16] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Was there any basis for removing them given? Did they just go away?
What happened?? Why???
CCP Habakuk wrote:Marius Labo wrote:With regards to Titles assigned to Roles it appears that these titles no longer display on a character. The vanity titles still appear but those assigned to Roles have now disappeared.
Pilots with the Roles still have them, just not the title associated.
I reviewing the devblog it doesn't appear that this was to have happened. Any information on this? This is intended and is now included in the patch notes, but it was added a bit late: "Titles are no longer publicly displayed in the "Show Info" window of a character, allowing corps to use them without leaking sensitive data."
Someone decided, apparently at last minute, that there was a need to remove the display of Titles assigned to groups of Roles.
Here is an example of sensitive data;
In my corp we have a title assigned to roles; "Combat Pilot". Given that, what publicly is being given away by that? Can anyone tell what roles are assigned via the Title Management screen in the Corp UI?
In EVE University they have a title called "Sophomore". Can anyone publicly tell what roles are assigned to that title?
The vast majority of corps who use this system would also be similar, and if they're not they most likely didn't have any issue with what these titles could allude to/give away. I haven't seen one example where this was apparently an issue, and again, just a touch of imagination could fix that in the name being used.
The rhetorical answer is "no". Someone decided that whatever name they assign to these roles could potentially "give away" what roles that person has. There are already viable solutions that existed prior to this change, aside from just a smidgeon of imagination by the CEO/Directors in a given corp assigning these title names.
So the basis for removing the public display of these titles seems very unfounded and something that was not given to any discussion prior to implementation. It seems we had no idea this would be happening.
Recruiter
Mercenary Coalition Forums
E-UNI Wiki
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bruce Iee
Syndicate Society Drop the Hammer
18
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:44:20 -
[17] - Quote
Very good points |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
383
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Posted - 2015.04.30 00:57:52 -
[18] - Quote
Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:My comment from the MOSAIC feedback https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5707442#post5707442 Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:Idea how to implement the title thing: http://i.imgur.com/UhuVmGU.png After this it should not be hard to check who opens the show info and check do the roles show or not. And of course not with those icons ;) (Also the roles should be like they are on the Role Management page. Did bug report of this.) EDIT: oh. And it should be radio button, not check box. And yes. Those options should be public, alliance, corp Can we add an extra one in there, Fleet. Options Public, Alliance, Corp, Fleet. Because frankly a Title like FC, that gives roles fro SRP/Handing Ships out for fleets should be seen in fleet especially in the NPSI community :) It's also something that you don't want seen by the enemy, head-shooting the FC etc. |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Chapters.
12
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Posted - 2015.04.30 09:32:55 -
[19] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:My comment from the MOSAIC feedback https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5707442#post5707442 Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:Idea how to implement the title thing: http://i.imgur.com/UhuVmGU.png After this it should not be hard to check who opens the show info and check do the roles show or not. And of course not with those icons ;) (Also the roles should be like they are on the Role Management page. Did bug report of this.) EDIT: oh. And it should be radio button, not check box. And yes. Those options should be public, alliance, corp Can we add an extra one in there, Fleet. Options Public, Alliance, Corp, Fleet. Because frankly a Title like FC, that gives roles fro SRP/Handing Ships out for fleets should be seen in fleet especially in the NPSI community :) It's also something that you don't want seen by the enemy, head-shooting the FC etc.
Possible, though I believe FC should be visible from the fleet hierarchy (I'm still a newbro, so I don't know this well). In my common way of doing things I would add that option (I like more options and possibilities than restrictions), but in the other hand corporation titles are most of the time for internal (corp/alliance) use. Public option is there for recruiting officer for example. So in that logic, FC might be shown to fleet.
So, personally, hard to say. At least good point. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
978
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Posted - 2015.04.30 10:00:16 -
[20] - Quote
*Hey I can't access this Lab!* *You got the industry title?* *How the fudge would I know :D:D:D:D?*
*Hey I want to dump the Zydrine you borrowed me back into your tab, which one was it?* *Just check my title, dude* *Can't, CCP decided we deserve OPSEC if we want or not*
*Who is actually a diplo?* *I don't know, would need to rightclick-check 240 members* *But why didn't you just give vanity titles?* *Cause I couldn't be assed to label 240 members with roles that should display to start with* |
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31337
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Posted - 2015.04.30 10:50:37 -
[21] - Quote
There was discussion about it, and the first time I recall it being mentioned was one of my own posts in CCP Punkturis and Sharq's "We want your corp little things" thread back when it was in GD.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5311099#post5311099
The part about intel is a big issue. The titles-with-roles are limited in number, so even if you give POS role titles a comedy name, for example, it will be found out and then it's an intel hemorrhage. When you only get so many titles, you don't have the option of assigning unique names, so any organization with a significant number of characters is forced to subscribe to this intel flaw.
If you want them back, what you should also be asking for is their number limit to be lifted.
Help, I can't download EVE
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Neonen Enderas
EVE University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.04.30 11:14:32 -
[22] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:There was discussion about it, and the first time I recall it being mentioned was one of my own posts in CCP Punkturis and Sharq's "We want your corp little things" thread back when it was in GD. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5311099#post5311099 The part about intel is a big issue. The titles-with-roles are limited in number, so even if you give POS role titles a comedy name, for example, it will be found out and then it's an intel hemorrhage. When you only get so many titles, you don't have the option of assigning unique names, so any organization with a significant number of characters is forced to subscribe to this intel flaw. If you want them back, what you should also be asking for is their number limit to be lifted.
But, couldn't you make the title hidden? (I remember Marius posting something like that) Because it's realy painful to look at members in EUni right now, every time I have to check their roles instead of just clicking the name. And while beeing on an OOC alt, I can't do that. Nor can others.
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
536
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Posted - 2015.04.30 13:49:31 -
[23] - Quote
Thanks for all the feedback everyone, we've taken the decision to revert this change for now, more info found here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5710624#post5710624
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
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Marius Labo
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
104
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Posted - 2015.04.30 14:11:15 -
[24] - Quote
Neonen Enderas wrote:Rain6637 wrote:There was discussion about it, and the first time I recall it being mentioned was one of my own posts in CCP Punkturis and Sharq's "We want your corp little things" thread back when it was in GD. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5311099#post5311099 The part about intel is a big issue. The titles-with-roles are limited in number, so even if you give POS role titles a comedy name, for example, it will be found out and then it's an intel hemorrhage. When you only get so many titles, you don't have the option of assigning unique names, so any organization with a significant number of characters is forced to subscribe to this intel flaw. If you want them back, what you should also be asking for is their number limit to be lifted. But, couldn't you make the title hidden? (I remember Marius posting something like that) Because it's realy painful to look at members in EUni right now, every time I have to check their roles instead of just clicking the name. And while beeing on an OOC alt, I can't do that. Nor can others. Yes, Titles with Roles can be "hidden" simply by leaving the default name of "Untitled #" (or attempting to make it a blank name) and there won't be a title displayed with that grouping of roles. I have confirmed this in game. The other alternative is to assign the roles directly to the pilot.
Having more then 16 of these Title Management titles would also be nice. In fact, having more options numbers wise in the Corp UI would be great.
And we've also been suggesting that the change should be a toggle allowing these Titles to be displayed or not. Have a number of options how to display and making the option(s) to toggle per each of the 16 would been even better.
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Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
467
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Posted - 2015.04.30 14:21:05 -
[25] - Quote
Awesome, thank you! |
bruce Iee
Syndicate Society Drop the Hammer
23
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Posted - 2015.05.01 01:04:06 -
[26] - Quote
Great acknowledgement! If the question was privacy, I think adding a feature of having secondary-role-titles view-able to public or not would suffice. Sort of like a ticker/check box giving Corp. leaders the option of doing this. |
bruce Iee
Syndicate Society Drop the Hammer
23
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Posted - 2015.05.04 16:23:57 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Lebowski, correct me if I am wrong but when will this reversion take place? I think I have not seen the update with this recent patch. |
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